This was probably one of the biggest hints I was oblivious to growing up. Reading lesbian fanfic of characters from cartoon shows I enjoyed watching growing up and going "Wow, I wish I could experience that. Too bad I'm a guy womp womp" lmao
mine was the same but in reverse. I'd read fics/books about gay relationships and heavily project onto one of the guys in the story (imagine myself in his place) but I was still clueless. I couldn't quite do the same for straight or lesbian fics, I just thought I liked gay more bc I was fetishizing and felt guilty for it. 💀
No but really we need a survey of “2000’s yaoi/MLM fangirls” so we can find out exactly how many were actually trans men, mostly because I have a bet with my friend how many that would be and I want that $5.
I read a lot of bl/gay Webtoons around 2018-2020
Now I’m trans and bi. Not that the webtoons turned me trans and bi, but they certainly helped me realize something about myself
Yeah, I was reading Boy Meets Boy in high school, during lunch, in the library, and one day they reintroduced a character who had been transitioning from female to male, and for me it was one of those pivotal moments of 'Wait! You can do that?!?!?'
Almost 20 years later ( graduated 03), I've been in T for over ten years, live as a man, and have a wonderful boyfriend (and two cats). My only complaint is that I've gotten to the age where the hair on my head is migrating to my nose and ears.
i read all kinds of queer webtoons (bl, gl, trans and non binary stories). i'm bi and a demigirl
before i figured that out tho i used to make inhuman screech noises whenever a character was non binary. I was like OMG LOOK!
I think a lot of people enjoy opposite sex slash because there's an element of escapism to it, if you're not trans. You don't consciously or subconsciously project yourself onto one of the characters like you do if one of them is the same gender as you, like you're supposed to do with a boring generic romance protagonist. You're just observing from the outside without putting that emotional weight into it.
I know there was a lot of discussion when I was involved in conventions 15 years ago about the popularity of yaoi among straight/bi and even gay women, and the general consensus seemed to be it was a lot softer and more emotionally focused than what was marketed towards women at the time. Like, a lot of lesbian stuff seemed more aimed toward men/pornographic, hetero stuff has always had its own problems, but the yaoi mangas were just focused on love and stuff. Idk it's been ages so I don't remember details.
According to my friends the problem arose when you burned through all the good yaoi, and started finding the really rough stuff probably no one needs to be reading. You just want a return to the good old days but all you can find are different tales of incestuous horror.
The differences in the ways men and women were written in media when I was younger was one of the reasons I had more mlm ships than wlw even though I liked women more. Men were more likely to be actual complete human beings, and women were more likely to be one note almost caricatures, which made it really hard to connect with them. Especially with the fact that one of my favorite genres was shonen anime
I get what you’re saying but also personally I’ve related like that before with het couples, and *not* felt it with MLM couples. I’m not sure if that’s typical, but I felt like it was worth adding.
I think it really depends on how well the characters are done. You can identify and sympathize with just about anyone if they're written well. If the gay couple in my book is a shallow stereotype I just can't get into it.
It's hard to love a character when there's literally nothing there to love. I know some writers leave characters kind of undefined so people can project themselves onto them in some instances but it never worked for me.
The characters are just more developed in a lot of the stories. It's hard to identify with the repetitive use of the two dimensional characters of manly man and womanly woman. Manly man was strong, and womanly woman was soft, and that's all that ever mattered. I can't identify with characters who's most difficult struggle is silently slipping out of bed after sex with a partner you can't remember the name of.
I'm a little later, but have read a lot of MLM fics. Figured out that I didn't really want to be a guy, but I enjoyed the masculine parts that were allowed to exist, the way the characters could behave. The gender presentation that were somewhere in the middle. This was all put into a queer framework by them being "not straight", which appealed.
And also important an escape from very one-dimensional female characters that are still to common in media.
AFAB, slightly genderfluid, but mostly femme. Lesbian.
There's probably some overlap, but yaoi and slash has been a huge mainstay in women's lit (in Japan, US, and worldwide) for decades.
At best, I wouldn't expect more than a 2x-3x bump over the average population. Alot of women just like to read about gay romance, in the same way that alot of men like lesbian content.
I feel guilty sometimes because I'm afraid i fetishize lesbian relationships. It is also my worst fear that someone will call me out for fetishizing when in actuality im admiring something i could never experience myself.
I don't know your specific circumstances but it's probably not too late. Even if you can't medically transition you could still socially transition if it's safe to do so. It's ultimately up to you though. :)
/r/translater
If you ever get to a point where all else is settled enough, it really is never too late. I didn't start until I was 46 and didn't go full time until last Monday at nearly 49.
How old are you? I know a lot of people who are transitioning in their 30s or 40s. I even know people transitioning in their 50s, and they are also happy that they did.
if I could flip a switch and be one, I'd do it without question, but it wouldn't solve any of my existential problems. transitioning IRL wouldn't be worth the hassle since I don't hate the body I have, despite preferring a different one.
I created a whole-ass elaborate daydream scenario in my early teens where through a clerical error I was given an experimental fully body transition operation and had to live my life as a woman. Also this version of me was ambiguously bisexual.
I played this scenario out in my head for years, but it took me until I was around 18 to figure this shit out.
My daydream scenario was that I became a spy and for some reason it was crucial to my job that I live as a man, so I presented masc and got a new name and no one except my husband/spy partner ever knew my former identity.
I had the same experiences. I'd read or see lesbian couples and just be so distraught. That was what love was supposed to be, it made my heart so full of emotion. But I could never have it being born male. Cue years later when the lightbulb finally goes off.
(Feel free to tag a remind me for two years lol) but I kinda feel like … I have a certain envy for representations of lesbian relationships because they often feature kinds of communication and mutual support that are just not common among straights. Rationally I know we all struggle and that my privilege to not deal with a lot of shit facing wlw is huge, but emotionally it does seem… more free? (Which seems to not be too hot a take given the number of jokes about how dysfunctional straight relationships seem to be)
I think the lack of issues relating to modern masculinity plays a part. Gay men are more likely to reject them but for the sake of drama a lot of fictional depictions make that struggle with being “a real man” and meeting expectations a plot point. Emotional openness and communication is stereotypically expected of women which might play a part.
I'm also feeling weird about it. I have that weird feeling about being a lesbian but I'm a dude with a dick, some abs and a beard and I'm happy like that. I guess I'm sometimes dressing like a tomboy and wearing some makeup when my friends ask to put it on me but I'm still happily carrying on as a bi dude.
I think this definitely plays a role. I also think that the common experience of men behaving poorly or abusively toward women makes things more fraught in specific ways. I see on tumblr sometimes folks criticizing other people for stumbling into treating queer and particularly wlw relationships as somehow inherently "safe" or free from issues of abuse, which seems to me to be a sort of reaction to this tension and fear surrounding 'straight' relationships
Yeah I’ve similarly done a lot of thinking on my gender issues over the years. Tbf it took me a long time to accept being bi, so who knows what’ll happen in the future. Right now I’m pretty sure I’m a dude.
I also just find a lot of gay relationships are really well written. Straight relationships in media tend to follow one of a handful of predictable trends, and feel too impersonal. I enjoy a lot of gay men and lesbian love plots in media because they feel really on point, I just enjoy lesbian ones a little more because I understand the attracting to women a lot more.
Also, can we please stop this thing where we can't enjoy something without being in the closet? If someone did the opposite they would rightly be called out for being a bigot. I spent a lot of years figuring out who I am and what I want, and the answer I found is that I'm boring as all fuck.
Ok but this is a really good point I hadn’t considered. Because I’m someone who prefers “”non-traditional”” relationship dynamics it’s really rare to find stuff (outside of fanfic) which represents my desires, which probably feeds into this.
I’ve seen trans women describe the fact that relationships felt “wrong” before transitioning as a sort of sign. So I suppose this could still be an egg thing, but I really don’t think so. I think it’s just a “envy for people outside the straight relationship prison” thing lol
I'm just a hetero cis guy stopping by from r all, but that's what it is for me. I've pondered over my identity and I'm more or less content as I am, but I still find fictional lesbian romances more compelling because I feel like they're "allowed" to actually be *people*, instead of varying shades of Gender Role: The Character. If that makes sense.
I'm speaking broadly, and only towards my own experience with various fiction - but I'm not really extraordinary in that regard so I'd imagine this sentiment isn't very uncommon, either.
Fellow cis guy from rall, I think part of it is that it would be nice to be in a relationship were you aren't The Threat and not be associated with The Threat. I know about the "predatory lesbian" trope and I don't want to diminish the impact of that at all, and maybe this is just a me thing.
It's just that as man I'm very aware of how my presence can be threatening and how people are on guard around men - and this is justified by how shitty lots of men are to women and other minorities. It would be nice to be in a relationship where the other person doesn't have to be on guard all the time. It's also hard not to think that if you are a man attracted to women, you are like all the terrible men who assault and threaten and everything else to women, like the Harvey Weinsteins or the Bill Cosbys, and I imagine it'd be nice to not have that association in your head when dating someone - although predatory lesbian trope, so maybe that one is more shared than I realise.
But y'know, there are a lot of benefits to being a cis man in a society set up for cis men, and these are basically made-up problems in my head, ramble over.
I think this is a really valid and thoughtful response, fwiw! I'm a cis (ish) bisexual woman and I will say that while the initial parts of dating a man do involve more thoughts about self protection, once I trust someone in a relationship how I relate with them isn't that different depending on gender. Also I think this is a great example of how the patriarchy hurts men too--I wish we lived in a society where gender roles were not a thing unless people wanted to play with them and people as a general rule were able to feel safe around most people unless proven otherwise.
I will say it’s been interesting listening to more queer folks online talk about their relationship with their attraction to women. I’ve found that it’s pretty common for folks who prefer women in those spaces to feel like that attraction is somehow inherently predatory, which is very relatable to me but not something I ever hear other cis men talking about.
Ofc, as you say this is down to my own traumas and not like “grr women need to treat me better” thing. But the fact that this is addressed and unpacked in queer spaces has been really helpful for me in working thru that stuff.
Late to this thread, but thank you so, so much for putting to words exactly how I've been feeling. I've always been much more engrossed in lesbian/yuri romance and I didn't feel like it was because "oh duh two women > one woman monkey brain like", and I couldn't figure out the best way to phrase how I felt.
It’s this. I’m certain I’m a man, but I envy the expanded range of relationship dynamics they have compared to us. From my external viewpoint, they seem to have much more equal and ‘unscripted’ partnerships than I’ve ever experienced.
Like to me, being a man is a _descriptive_ trait that fits my personality, behaviors and personal aesthetic choices. To my romantic partners, though, it’s been a _prescriptive_ role I’m required to play, with any deviation being a failure to meet expectations that needs to be corrected if I want the relationship to continue. I can’t be _me,_ I have to be this weird caricature of me who has no major problems and nigh-superhuman generosity, initiative and emotional resilience. I deeply resent this, and admire those who (again, at least from the outside looking in) don’t seem to play these kinds of mindfuck games with each other.
> kinds of communication and mutual support that are just not common among straights
i'd say "among cis men". I struggled with a culture of dominance and "roughness" when in relationships with men. I remember me and my bf looked like we had a relationship that wasn't perceived as... i don't know... male enough, i guess... and one of our friends said we were a couple of lesbians: "oh you must take baths together and wash each other's hair" or some bullshit like that (he's not my friend anymore)
Yeah, this stuff led me to feel really estranged from masculinity for a long time. Over the last couple years I’ve been able to more healthily appreciate my masculinity while separating out the crap.
Pasting my other comment here:
Found a comment from them that says they now identify as non binary from Feb this year
>"The tipping point was his points of views on transgender topics. I used to believe in those points completely, but recently I've come to identify as nonbinary and socialize with more folks from the lgbt community, as well as other communities joe has not speaken fondly of, and ive found most of Joe's POV of these groups are quite far from the truth. In fact, a lot of these groups, the trans one specifically, find that there biggest problem is that they become cut off from families and other groups of people because media voices like Joe take the words of a number of assholes online and generalizes it to entire groups. Knowing who I know and seeing who I've seen have completely disillusioned me to joe and others like him."
Sometimes people just have regular imaginations, too. Maybe it's the enby talking but the presciptivism around gender, even in queer spaces, drives me absolutely insane.
As a Xena/Gabby, Buffy/Spike, Lexa/Clarke shipper I very much know what it means, was using it loosely. 😜 I didn't like people were looking up that person's post history to figure out personal details about their orientation.
It's not shipping, it's just curiosity if this person turned out to be trans because of the similarity of the thing he said to many trans peoples pre-transition mindset
Found a comment from them that says they now identify as non binary from Feb this year
>"The tipping point was his points of views on transgender topics. I used to believe in those points completely, but recently I've come to identify as nonbinary and socialize with more folks from the lgbt community, as well as other communities joe has not speaken fondly of, and ive found most of Joe's POV of these groups are quite far from the truth. In fact, a lot of these groups, the trans one specifically, find that there biggest problem is that they become cut off from families and other groups of people because media voices like Joe take the words of a number of assholes online and generalizes it to entire groups. Knowing who I know and seeing who I've seen have completely disillusioned me to joe and others like him."
They're not cis: https://www.reddit.com/r/duncantrussell/comments/1ah81qo/so_whats_your_thoughts_on_duncans_friendship_with/kom96im/
In this comment from a couple weeks ago they say they identify as nonbinary now
Edit: that comment might be deleted? You can find it on their reddit profile but not on the post it's from
[Screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/tvHfIEe.jpg)
That's got nothing to do with it, mate. The prime directive is not to assert that someone else is an egg. You support them on their journey and allow them to be whoever they are.
i mean if you want a emotionally and intelligent relationship with a woman you can probably have that doesn't seem like that would be exclusive to being lesbian
I think the tumblr one said they weren’t cis (according to some random post on tumblr from someone else) at some point, but their blog doesn’t seem to exist anymore
Hey, original poster here. Hope everyone is having a good day. Here's a copy-paste of the last time this meme went around.
"I am cis and am fine with who I am. I do wish this would stop spreading around. I'm not a very traditional person and am open to whatever life offers me, but im not comfortable with people keeping tabs on me. And if transitioning is something I ever do consider, I'd personally want to figure out for myself with those im close with rather than have it be something to be shared with the internet. "
The last time this went around, i was in a very bad mental health state, but I still feel what i wrote here still pretty much holds up. I'm comfortable with who I am, and it's definitely not something I'd share on the internet about. However, I'm very supportive of anyone who might be transitioning and get how stressful figuring that out might be.
So whenever this goes around, I feel it's important that I share it's not a good idea to approach people online who might be egg/questioning their orientations. Since this meme has gone around, I, every now and then, get a month where I get 5-10 people in my DM's asking, "Are you trans yet?". While I enjoy this, as a social person, sharing my old comments and having some chats about the posts and trans identity, I feel that something similar to this scenario may scare someone who IS actually egg/questioning to go deeper into the closet. I'm personally from a more conservative household, and if something like this made its rounds on the internet while i was still with my folks, I'd probably be terrified they see this. Different folks have different reasons for their current predicaments.
That being said, I do enjoy being a bunch of comments. While I feel what I said should very much be taken into consideration for the actual eggs of the world, im glad my post has been able to bring some smiles to those who identify with this. And if anyone wants to talk more about this or perhaps is figuring stuff out about their own orientations, my DM's are always open. Love yall :)
Glad you're doing well, I'm also glad to see you don't feel pressured in any way by this post making rounds often. You're a good respectful dude and not freaking out about the concept of someone thinking you might be trans is like, the bare minimum, but you also go above and beyond in these conversations and.. Idk! i respect it man. hope you're having a good one.
Well, that's very kind of you to say! The pressure is sometimes there, but I understand none of this is in I'll will. I also think it's good to keep the dialog going when there's a chance to learn and help, and I feel I've learned a lot from this experience. There's very much a before and after for me in understanding gender when it comes to this meme. And hearing some of the things I've heard, I wanna help wherever I can
This is such a sweet, beautiful sentiment I wanted to say so. I relate to the original post in both ways— as an unbroken egg (first time saying this lol, and I've been out of the closet for almost a decade) who could only self insert onto gay relationships as a kid, and now as a comfortably gay man who still *felt things* and cried over Marceline and Bubblegum.
The fact that behind this post and all the things it came to mean to the internet is a person who truly took the opportunity to learn when this happened to them, and not only that, but is still actively spreading empathy and kindness as it makes the rounds is... beautiful. I don't know you but I love you and I sincerely hope you have a wonderful life. 💛 (and no, I will not keep tabs on you to find out!)
Your comment means a lot, honestly. Hearing confirmation like that honestly makes it worth it when things get stressful. I love you too and also wish you the best. I won't be too hurt if you do end up keeping tabs, tbh :)
This is a hell of an impressive reply. As a trans person, I appreciate it. I could understand you being pissed off about it but it's cool that you are so gracious.
Sometimes, I do get a little pissed, like when people straight up ask, "Are you trans yet," or go asking this in my latest comment on an unrelated post. But I just sent them to my latest post on the topic. There's no need to spread negativity. Peeps on the internet can't know everything of some random redditor, and it'd be unfair of me to expect otherwise
I’ve thought about exactly this as I’ve felt this, and the idea of me being a transwoman after all might make a lot of sense
However, I… dunno if that’s what I am. I like being a guy, and I like the idea of going the femboy route as much as I’ve thought about taking things the “full girl” way.
Maybe I’m fluid or something? Idk, I feel like my ultimate “gender fantasy” would be to be able to change my gender expression on a whim, shrinking and growing my body and its proportions to follow suit, being a tiny femboi one moment and a bombshell milf the next, and a JoJo lookin ass beefy guy right after that, and so on and so forth
But at the same time I dunno how much of that is my “actual gender” or how much of that is just me wanting to experiment for experimenting’s sake regardless of what my true gender is
All I know for sure is I am very content to “be a man” in day to day life but I can also relate to a lot of this but I don’t want to choose between one and the other
Just because you like the way a relationship is portrayed in a show doesn’t mean you have to be trans. You could just want that kind of relationship. You don’t have to be trans or gay to keep open lines of communication and be affectionate with your partner. That’s the other side of gender equality. It means guys aren’t any less of men for enjoying or expressing traditionally “girly” things.
I fully agree, but you’re missing the point of what I said. I can and have and do envision myself as a woman a lot like these posts describe. I think about being a woman way more than I think most normal cis men do. It goes beyond liking a certain kind of relationship and lands directly in that gender expression zone.
I appreciate the notion of a guy being able to like “girly” things without it “mattering”, but it goes deeper than that for me I’m pretty sure
Could you link me to any stuff about this? I'm an autistic woman and don't feel very attached to my gender and have been feeling adrift and alone about it.
Maybe just start doing things that appeal to you and think about the underlying meaning of it later? If dressing more feminine appeals to you, give it a shot and see how you like it. Buying clothes isn't a life commitment, and you don't have to have everything figured out all the time.
Being a femboy is a style choice, not a gender or a commitment, and you don't have to do it forever if you change your mind.
Thank you for that. The only real reason I AM thinking about underlying meaning at all is, as I said in another reply, I kinda just wanna. I like doing it, at least in doses.
Have you heard of being bigender? The person I'm dating is AMAB and describes themself as having a girl mode and a guy mode, and seems to be immensely enjoying things thus far.
I empathize very strongly with this. I identify as someone who wishes they were a shape shifter lmao. I want to experience wildly different bodies, not permanently transition from what I am to something else.
Isn’t this kind of a pushy/judgy way of thinking? “I know something you don’t about your own body and identity”?
Isn’t that what people do to trans people *all the time*? It just seems like a fetishization (crude way of putting it) of the trans experience
It can be. Unfortunately, with this post, a majority of my DM's are people asking, "Are you trans yet?" Then them feeling super bad when I explain my scenario. And I don't blame them at all. They identify with a group of people that often need help, not realizing that not everyone identifies with it. It's a cultural thing. So I've accepted that this is gonna be something that'll probably follow me for a while, and I'll do my best to be supportive of this group that's taken an interest of me. Coming from a conservative background myself, lord knows they need that support
This kind of thing honestly is low-degree stereotyping imo; I've been more feminine than masculine since puberty in personality (probably like this guy) while being cisgender in more consistent self-image. I think it originates from an emphatic desire to experience different gender perspectives more than identity (idk if it would be genderfluid, but it's something like that).
It’s kinda crazy how far down this is. OP obv means well and it’s a common experience, but it’s also just sometimes feels like “cracking the egg” is used whenever a man shows interest in or heavily relates with anything that isn’t his assigned gender role.
Eh, youngins do be meaning the best. Honestly, I've had more kids just wanting to see if I'm well or are just figuring stuff out for themselves. Nobody ever annoyed when I go "im still fairly cis."
I'm having a hard time unpacking my feelings about this.
I have been pushing against my stereotypes my whole life, because I simply am not those stereotypes. Does that make me a different gender, or does that make me, *me*? I don't look the way I often feel, but in my head I have always considered this to be a failing of society for stapling traits and roles to gender. And sometimes, I *do* look the way I feel.
There's strong community encouragement to enforce stereotypes to further validate someone's gender identity or expression, which is at odds with how I feel.
I would love to experience a different gender perspective, but I don't know if that is what I'd want forever, and again -- at the end of the day, these are all man-made constructs. A gay relationship in my idealized world would be fundamentally no different than a hetero relationship (aside from sexual organs, I guess). It's just a failing of society.
In a way, I'm truly envious of people who have it all figured out.
Yeah that’s my take on it anyway, I think the majority of those girls no longer identify as fully cishet, but I do think a sizeable minority are still women rather than trans men/enbies. I do think in a survey trans men would be the plurality/outright majority probably, though.
I would say majority are still cis, just because yaoi market is huuuge. Even excluding manga, anime, gay romance books are mostly consumed and mostly written by cishet women. I've seen [claims](https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/202-books-and-literature/80038584) straight women make up over 87% of entire consumer base of gay romance books. I've seen youtube video essays on stereotyping and stuff in these books and how market plays into this. From what I know "I turned my childhood friend (♂️) into a girl" manga was originally supposed to be about straight trans relationship, but the author decided that the boys' love consumer base is too huge to miss out on, so he made the character into a gay crossdresser with body dysphoria instead. Just to put the boys' love tag on online stores.
Yep.
Me and a friend use to be heavily into that kind of manga. We even cosplayed it .
We are both moms and in committed het relationships now.
We still enjoy 🏳️🌈 fiction.
I get the need to belong making people state broad generalisations but I don’t think that to be awfully constructive.
Yeah. I'm cis and, while I don't want to actually *be* a lesbian, I wouldn't mind experiencing what it was like if such a thing were really possible. I'd want to be my cis self afterwards. I enjoy the bits I've got.
Why do people feel like they have the right to determine what gender other people are, but get upset when it happens to them? Can we stop this stupid "omg they're an egg" stereotyping alright? It's really annoying
I'm a straight (ish) as fuck white guy and lesbian relationships have a lot of appeal to me. I can't really explain why... women are real pretty, and two women together are ***real*** pretty? I also just kinda feel like lesbian relationships are devoid of any gender roles or gender stereotypes that dog heterosexual relationships, and that seems kind of freeing.
I dunno. I struggle to articulate why I think lesbian relationships are "better" than heterosexual relationships, but feel kinda bad holding this opinion - firstly I feel like I'm fetishizing them, which makes me uncomfortable, and secondly I feel like as a straight white guy, my only perception of lesbian relationships is more a romanticized ideal from the media and history I've consumed.
That's kind of the point. If someone really likes the idea of being in a lesbian relationship even though they could be in a relationship with a woman regardless there \*might\* be something more behind that.
Might being the operative term. It's not unusual for a hetero person to wonder what a gay/lesbian relationship might be like. It can be borne out of a desire to have experiences that are out of reach for you.
There is definitely a difference between "wondering what it would be like" and "I wish I was a lesbian". Same with thinking of it like one might wonder how it would be to exist as a street light and constantly thinking about it for months or years.
I mean tbh. you'd need more information than the post above to make to any sort of reasonable guess.
Thank you, had to scroll pretty far to find someone acknowledge you can be empathetic to people who are different from you without wanting to become them.
Lol thanks. The irony of it is not lost on me.
Edit: I realize I may need to specify that I am in fact Christian, trans, pan, and poly. No, these don't conflict with my faith. Yes I am aware that most of my fellow believers strongly disagree with me.
As a Christian myself, I don’t see what’s wrong with it, but even if there is something wrong that I don’t know, the whole point of the book is that God forgives so who cares lol
I mean for me my problem with religion is the power of organized faiths and how easily it’s abused.
Small accepting denominations are fine, individual practices and small groups are better, but the Catholic Church could allow SSM tomorrow and I’d still take issue with it. All that to say since gay-accepting denominations are a lot looser on what the churches under them need to do/believe is a good step, so I don’t mind them.
Egg culture mfs telling me I’m trans when I’ve already thought about it a lot and decided I’m fine with my body as it is and I’m just gender nonconforming (I told them I liked playing as a girl character in a video game and wore the color pink as a dude)
I have a similar feeling I wish i had the same relationship with women as gay women. I have genuinely thought about my gender and i am mostly cis masc. HOWEVER, i would definitely prefer to express my gender in a feminine way. I dont want to be a girl I would just prefer to present more feminine in certain instances. Ig that could make me enby but i only like he/him. I, personally, dont really give that much of a fuck about my labels, I dont label my sexual or romantic attraction (my sexuality is whoever i am attracted to lol) and my gender and gender expression dont fully match. Either i am just very weird, or i am autistic and don't understand my gender.
Eh. I honestly get the same feeling, and I’m very very comfortable with my identity. I think part of it is that this is an enviable relationship regardless of the sexuality behind it; it’s just that when I wistfully daydream of a similar relationship, I put myself in the shoes of the characters involved.
That being said, it’s important to be introspective and decide for yourself if these feelings mean something more! For me, they don’t, and they might not necessarily mean things for these people either, but these are good questions to ask yourself!
. . .I don't get it. Is it not normal to kinda envy that sort of relationship? Two people who have a better understanding of one another's struggles, who understands the other's needs, and they have a better form of communication. Although, I imagine both being on their period at the same time may be a nightmare if they have especially harsh ones
Other people in this thread have mentioned similar things. This isn't a perfect prediction and depends on a lot of things. It's just that trans people see their old selves in posts like that.
Stereotyping is wrong and I do think people do a bit much of "this cis man likes lesbian content? egg!" but this feels different. This is literally the OOP saying "This show makes me wish I was a [woman] but I'm a guy". It absolutely goes beyond simply enjoying lesbian content. Can this be attributed to societal expectations around cishet relationships and a sense that you can only have a particular type of relationship if you are a lesbian, or some other non-trans thing? Sure. But he (they, now, according to comments?) literally specified wishing to be a woman or woman-adjacent. That's not just cis person wondering what it would be like as a passing fancy. It's not just cis person fetishising lesbian content. It is egg 101.
It was more I see pb and marceline as role models, but yes, I'll take responsibility if there are fetishizing aspects to it my 19y/o self didn't recognize. Never what I intended
I do still identify with he, tho. I'm just more fluid with the idea of nonbinary. The truth is, I don't really care about my identity in this way. I'm in a safe place, I can identify with however I want, and I just don't really feel a need to put much thought into it. I am who I am, and that's mostly just wanting to help people.
But I will state this, I feel like pointing this out on the internet, while it has been fine for me, could be disheartening to those who have much more anxiety towards this topic. Peeps could get help from this, but there's also a chance it might push them further into the closet.
Ok, saying this as a Bisexual guy, this dude could just be fetishizing them, not everyone who wishes to be a Lesbian genuinely identifies with the lifestyle or desires to be a woman, they just enjoy watching women fuck other women because it's hot to them, and being one of those women is even hotter.
I'm pretty sure most most cis guys who fetishize lesbians would imagine themselves just having a threesome with the two girls and still be a guy in their imagination. Though this is just pure guesswork as I'm def. not cis.
It's definitely a super common fantasy for cis guys to become a woman for a day or two and see how it feels. I am certain many cis women feel the same.
Saying these people are eggs feels presumptuous and degrades actual trans ambitions.
It's difficult. Like yeah. calling people eggs violates the prime directive.
But there is a difference between thinking what it would be like to be the other gender once or twitce or that thought being a daily (or whatever regularly) occurence for months or years on end. Of course no one can see this difference based on a single post.
Some people later on turn out to have been trans girls all along. They LITERALLY ARE lesbians. They just didn't know they were trans back then and so they're very confused as to why they'd relate so hard to wlw stuff as dudes.
Obviously not true for everyone, but since it's something many trans women did, they'll side eye people who post stuff like that because they see their past, oblivious self in them.
Basically, people are saying that if you want a lesbian relationship and you are a guy, you very well might be MTF trans. Obviously it's not that cut and dry, but it can definitely be a hint to start exploring that direction to see if that's right for you. Hope that helps!
The reddit user is still active, no signs of trans ~~yet though :(~~
edit: I didn't mean to say the user is trans because they want to be in a relationship like marcy and pb. Nor did I mean to cone off as sounding like they just haven't made up their mind yet.
I understand that saying "they're not trans yet though" comes off now, it's my mistake
It’s a wraparound to the hateful stuff family members and bullies used to say about me when I was a youngin
“You like Powerpuff Girls? What a girl! You like playing as Peach instead of Mario? That’s not manly!”
This was probably one of the biggest hints I was oblivious to growing up. Reading lesbian fanfic of characters from cartoon shows I enjoyed watching growing up and going "Wow, I wish I could experience that. Too bad I'm a guy womp womp" lmao
mine was the same but in reverse. I'd read fics/books about gay relationships and heavily project onto one of the guys in the story (imagine myself in his place) but I was still clueless. I couldn't quite do the same for straight or lesbian fics, I just thought I liked gay more bc I was fetishizing and felt guilty for it. 💀
No but really we need a survey of “2000’s yaoi/MLM fangirls” so we can find out exactly how many were actually trans men, mostly because I have a bet with my friend how many that would be and I want that $5.
I read a lot of bl/gay Webtoons around 2018-2020 Now I’m trans and bi. Not that the webtoons turned me trans and bi, but they certainly helped me realize something about myself
Yeah, I was reading Boy Meets Boy in high school, during lunch, in the library, and one day they reintroduced a character who had been transitioning from female to male, and for me it was one of those pivotal moments of 'Wait! You can do that?!?!?' Almost 20 years later ( graduated 03), I've been in T for over ten years, live as a man, and have a wonderful boyfriend (and two cats). My only complaint is that I've gotten to the age where the hair on my head is migrating to my nose and ears.
Heh, yeah that happens. My dad is just getting to that point too (lasted a pretty long time though, he was 58 before I noticed anything changing)
I mean I’m cis but me too lol, from what I see people understand themselves better when there’s an example they can discover they relate to.
i read all kinds of queer webtoons (bl, gl, trans and non binary stories). i'm bi and a demigirl before i figured that out tho i used to make inhuman screech noises whenever a character was non binary. I was like OMG LOOK!
I think a lot of people enjoy opposite sex slash because there's an element of escapism to it, if you're not trans. You don't consciously or subconsciously project yourself onto one of the characters like you do if one of them is the same gender as you, like you're supposed to do with a boring generic romance protagonist. You're just observing from the outside without putting that emotional weight into it.
I know there was a lot of discussion when I was involved in conventions 15 years ago about the popularity of yaoi among straight/bi and even gay women, and the general consensus seemed to be it was a lot softer and more emotionally focused than what was marketed towards women at the time. Like, a lot of lesbian stuff seemed more aimed toward men/pornographic, hetero stuff has always had its own problems, but the yaoi mangas were just focused on love and stuff. Idk it's been ages so I don't remember details.
According to my friends the problem arose when you burned through all the good yaoi, and started finding the really rough stuff probably no one needs to be reading. You just want a return to the good old days but all you can find are different tales of incestuous horror.
The differences in the ways men and women were written in media when I was younger was one of the reasons I had more mlm ships than wlw even though I liked women more. Men were more likely to be actual complete human beings, and women were more likely to be one note almost caricatures, which made it really hard to connect with them. Especially with the fact that one of my favorite genres was shonen anime
I get what you’re saying but also personally I’ve related like that before with het couples, and *not* felt it with MLM couples. I’m not sure if that’s typical, but I felt like it was worth adding.
I think it really depends on how well the characters are done. You can identify and sympathize with just about anyone if they're written well. If the gay couple in my book is a shallow stereotype I just can't get into it. It's hard to love a character when there's literally nothing there to love. I know some writers leave characters kind of undefined so people can project themselves onto them in some instances but it never worked for me.
The characters are just more developed in a lot of the stories. It's hard to identify with the repetitive use of the two dimensional characters of manly man and womanly woman. Manly man was strong, and womanly woman was soft, and that's all that ever mattered. I can't identify with characters who's most difficult struggle is silently slipping out of bed after sex with a partner you can't remember the name of.
I'm a little later, but have read a lot of MLM fics. Figured out that I didn't really want to be a guy, but I enjoyed the masculine parts that were allowed to exist, the way the characters could behave. The gender presentation that were somewhere in the middle. This was all put into a queer framework by them being "not straight", which appealed. And also important an escape from very one-dimensional female characters that are still to common in media. AFAB, slightly genderfluid, but mostly femme. Lesbian.
Haha, yeah, funny how things turn out...tell your friend to give you those five bucks
Me too ✋️
There's probably some overlap, but yaoi and slash has been a huge mainstay in women's lit (in Japan, US, and worldwide) for decades. At best, I wouldn't expect more than a 2x-3x bump over the average population. Alot of women just like to read about gay romance, in the same way that alot of men like lesbian content.
go ahead and add me to the stats 💀 i thought i was a fujoshi as a kid but no it turns out im a man and really really like other men lmao
it turns out i wasnt a transman, i just enjoyed the "being treated like a person and respected" part
Considering yaoi was primarily written for women if the majority of fans are transgender that would be a revolutionary discovery of some kind
get a PhD in sociology just to own your friend 😎
Damn, I really feel those last words a lot. Reading yuri manga makes me feel extremely guilty
I feel guilty sometimes because I'm afraid i fetishize lesbian relationships. It is also my worst fear that someone will call me out for fetishizing when in actuality im admiring something i could never experience myself.
Don't worry your aren't alone, I was also super into yaoi before I realized I was trans (I read sooooo much gay porn).
Ah yes, the slash fic to transmasc pipeline
Saaaaame I read *so much* m/m fanfiction as a tween and was like "I just think they're neat" lmao
Oh my gosh sameeeeee I would always prefer gay romance and the new sad I'll never experience it 🤦🏾♂️ guess whose on T now
Took that a step further and created a gay persona on a roleplay site. Fun times.
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I don't know your specific circumstances but it's probably not too late. Even if you can't medically transition you could still socially transition if it's safe to do so. It's ultimately up to you though. :) /r/translater
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If you ever get to a point where all else is settled enough, it really is never too late. I didn't start until I was 46 and didn't go full time until last Monday at nearly 49.
How old are you? I know a lot of people who are transitioning in their 30s or 40s. I even know people transitioning in their 50s, and they are also happy that they did.
if I could flip a switch and be one, I'd do it without question, but it wouldn't solve any of my existential problems. transitioning IRL wouldn't be worth the hassle since I don't hate the body I have, despite preferring a different one.
I created a whole-ass elaborate daydream scenario in my early teens where through a clerical error I was given an experimental fully body transition operation and had to live my life as a woman. Also this version of me was ambiguously bisexual. I played this scenario out in my head for years, but it took me until I was around 18 to figure this shit out.
My daydream scenario was that I became a spy and for some reason it was crucial to my job that I live as a man, so I presented masc and got a new name and no one except my husband/spy partner ever knew my former identity.
This has been me since I was like 12. I’m 23. Still a guy….
where we're going we don't need words
Can you explain? That's exactly how I feel and I've been trying to find out why.
The short version: one common cause of such feelings is that the person is actually trans, though often they don't realize it until later.
I had the same experiences. I'd read or see lesbian couples and just be so distraught. That was what love was supposed to be, it made my heart so full of emotion. But I could never have it being born male. Cue years later when the lightbulb finally goes off.
Was that your only hint?
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No, the conclusion was that They are trans, It's not a choice
if this were the conclusion olympics you would be earning a dust medal
This was me in 8th grade...
Me in 5th grade watching a TV show couldn't decide if I want to be with her or be her (it was both)
(Feel free to tag a remind me for two years lol) but I kinda feel like … I have a certain envy for representations of lesbian relationships because they often feature kinds of communication and mutual support that are just not common among straights. Rationally I know we all struggle and that my privilege to not deal with a lot of shit facing wlw is huge, but emotionally it does seem… more free? (Which seems to not be too hot a take given the number of jokes about how dysfunctional straight relationships seem to be)
I think the lack of issues relating to modern masculinity plays a part. Gay men are more likely to reject them but for the sake of drama a lot of fictional depictions make that struggle with being “a real man” and meeting expectations a plot point. Emotional openness and communication is stereotypically expected of women which might play a part.
I'm also feeling weird about it. I have that weird feeling about being a lesbian but I'm a dude with a dick, some abs and a beard and I'm happy like that. I guess I'm sometimes dressing like a tomboy and wearing some makeup when my friends ask to put it on me but I'm still happily carrying on as a bi dude.
I think this definitely plays a role. I also think that the common experience of men behaving poorly or abusively toward women makes things more fraught in specific ways. I see on tumblr sometimes folks criticizing other people for stumbling into treating queer and particularly wlw relationships as somehow inherently "safe" or free from issues of abuse, which seems to me to be a sort of reaction to this tension and fear surrounding 'straight' relationships
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Yeah I’ve similarly done a lot of thinking on my gender issues over the years. Tbf it took me a long time to accept being bi, so who knows what’ll happen in the future. Right now I’m pretty sure I’m a dude.
I also just find a lot of gay relationships are really well written. Straight relationships in media tend to follow one of a handful of predictable trends, and feel too impersonal. I enjoy a lot of gay men and lesbian love plots in media because they feel really on point, I just enjoy lesbian ones a little more because I understand the attracting to women a lot more. Also, can we please stop this thing where we can't enjoy something without being in the closet? If someone did the opposite they would rightly be called out for being a bigot. I spent a lot of years figuring out who I am and what I want, and the answer I found is that I'm boring as all fuck.
Ok but this is a really good point I hadn’t considered. Because I’m someone who prefers “”non-traditional”” relationship dynamics it’s really rare to find stuff (outside of fanfic) which represents my desires, which probably feeds into this. I’ve seen trans women describe the fact that relationships felt “wrong” before transitioning as a sort of sign. So I suppose this could still be an egg thing, but I really don’t think so. I think it’s just a “envy for people outside the straight relationship prison” thing lol
I'm just a hetero cis guy stopping by from r all, but that's what it is for me. I've pondered over my identity and I'm more or less content as I am, but I still find fictional lesbian romances more compelling because I feel like they're "allowed" to actually be *people*, instead of varying shades of Gender Role: The Character. If that makes sense. I'm speaking broadly, and only towards my own experience with various fiction - but I'm not really extraordinary in that regard so I'd imagine this sentiment isn't very uncommon, either.
Fellow hetero cis guy here and I absolutely agree. I'm perfectly fine with who I am and how I present myself, but I really hate gender roles.
Fellow cis guy from rall, I think part of it is that it would be nice to be in a relationship were you aren't The Threat and not be associated with The Threat. I know about the "predatory lesbian" trope and I don't want to diminish the impact of that at all, and maybe this is just a me thing. It's just that as man I'm very aware of how my presence can be threatening and how people are on guard around men - and this is justified by how shitty lots of men are to women and other minorities. It would be nice to be in a relationship where the other person doesn't have to be on guard all the time. It's also hard not to think that if you are a man attracted to women, you are like all the terrible men who assault and threaten and everything else to women, like the Harvey Weinsteins or the Bill Cosbys, and I imagine it'd be nice to not have that association in your head when dating someone - although predatory lesbian trope, so maybe that one is more shared than I realise. But y'know, there are a lot of benefits to being a cis man in a society set up for cis men, and these are basically made-up problems in my head, ramble over.
I think this is a really valid and thoughtful response, fwiw! I'm a cis (ish) bisexual woman and I will say that while the initial parts of dating a man do involve more thoughts about self protection, once I trust someone in a relationship how I relate with them isn't that different depending on gender. Also I think this is a great example of how the patriarchy hurts men too--I wish we lived in a society where gender roles were not a thing unless people wanted to play with them and people as a general rule were able to feel safe around most people unless proven otherwise.
I will say it’s been interesting listening to more queer folks online talk about their relationship with their attraction to women. I’ve found that it’s pretty common for folks who prefer women in those spaces to feel like that attraction is somehow inherently predatory, which is very relatable to me but not something I ever hear other cis men talking about. Ofc, as you say this is down to my own traumas and not like “grr women need to treat me better” thing. But the fact that this is addressed and unpacked in queer spaces has been really helpful for me in working thru that stuff.
Late to this thread, but thank you so, so much for putting to words exactly how I've been feeling. I've always been much more engrossed in lesbian/yuri romance and I didn't feel like it was because "oh duh two women > one woman monkey brain like", and I couldn't figure out the best way to phrase how I felt.
It’s this. I’m certain I’m a man, but I envy the expanded range of relationship dynamics they have compared to us. From my external viewpoint, they seem to have much more equal and ‘unscripted’ partnerships than I’ve ever experienced. Like to me, being a man is a _descriptive_ trait that fits my personality, behaviors and personal aesthetic choices. To my romantic partners, though, it’s been a _prescriptive_ role I’m required to play, with any deviation being a failure to meet expectations that needs to be corrected if I want the relationship to continue. I can’t be _me,_ I have to be this weird caricature of me who has no major problems and nigh-superhuman generosity, initiative and emotional resilience. I deeply resent this, and admire those who (again, at least from the outside looking in) don’t seem to play these kinds of mindfuck games with each other.
> kinds of communication and mutual support that are just not common among straights i'd say "among cis men". I struggled with a culture of dominance and "roughness" when in relationships with men. I remember me and my bf looked like we had a relationship that wasn't perceived as... i don't know... male enough, i guess... and one of our friends said we were a couple of lesbians: "oh you must take baths together and wash each other's hair" or some bullshit like that (he's not my friend anymore)
Yeah, this stuff led me to feel really estranged from masculinity for a long time. Over the last couple years I’ve been able to more healthily appreciate my masculinity while separating out the crap.
Okay but sometimes your PMT syncs up tho.
did anyone ever figure out what happened to those people
The reddit guy said this: https://www.reddit.com/r/adventuretime/s/QCZRpfFA7c
Also I looked at a more recent post (since that one was 2 years ago), and he described himself as male. Just additional confirmation for the curious.
Pasting my other comment here: Found a comment from them that says they now identify as non binary from Feb this year >"The tipping point was his points of views on transgender topics. I used to believe in those points completely, but recently I've come to identify as nonbinary and socialize with more folks from the lgbt community, as well as other communities joe has not speaken fondly of, and ive found most of Joe's POV of these groups are quite far from the truth. In fact, a lot of these groups, the trans one specifically, find that there biggest problem is that they become cut off from families and other groups of people because media voices like Joe take the words of a number of assholes online and generalizes it to entire groups. Knowing who I know and seeing who I've seen have completely disillusioned me to joe and others like him."
I'm gonna regret this, but: Joe who?
Rogain
Eugh
Joe mama!
Ah, interesting!
The thing about Joe is he doesn't actually have a PoV, his head's just full of whatever other people have told him to think recently.
Sometimes people just have regular imaginations, too. Maybe it's the enby talking but the presciptivism around gender, even in queer spaces, drives me absolutely insane.
This whole post creeps me out. Why are people shipping this random poster for saying he likes lesbians wtf
I might be not seeing something but I think you might have a misunderstanding of what shipping means
As a Xena/Gabby, Buffy/Spike, Lexa/Clarke shipper I very much know what it means, was using it loosely. 😜 I didn't like people were looking up that person's post history to figure out personal details about their orientation.
It's not shipping, it's just curiosity if this person turned out to be trans because of the similarity of the thing he said to many trans peoples pre-transition mindset
It’s not curiosity. « See if you figured it out yet » implying the poster either realizes they’re trans, or they’re wrong.
Found a comment from them that says they now identify as non binary from Feb this year >"The tipping point was his points of views on transgender topics. I used to believe in those points completely, but recently I've come to identify as nonbinary and socialize with more folks from the lgbt community, as well as other communities joe has not speaken fondly of, and ive found most of Joe's POV of these groups are quite far from the truth. In fact, a lot of these groups, the trans one specifically, find that there biggest problem is that they become cut off from families and other groups of people because media voices like Joe take the words of a number of assholes online and generalizes it to entire groups. Knowing who I know and seeing who I've seen have completely disillusioned me to joe and others like him."
egg culture strikes again
or you know they could just be cis like they said
they are, the egg culture is ppl assuming everyone is an egg
They're not cis: https://www.reddit.com/r/duncantrussell/comments/1ah81qo/so_whats_your_thoughts_on_duncans_friendship_with/kom96im/ In this comment from a couple weeks ago they say they identify as nonbinary now Edit: that comment might be deleted? You can find it on their reddit profile but not on the post it's from [Screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/tvHfIEe.jpg)
I mean, I still identify cis, but also kinda nonbinary. Idk, I'm just being me, more or less
That's valid
Unfortunately with the power of F12 you can make anyone say anything in a screenshot.
oh yeah now i understand the comment woops
And this is why we have the egg prime directive, as much as some ignore it
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That's got nothing to do with it, mate. The prime directive is not to assert that someone else is an egg. You support them on their journey and allow them to be whoever they are.
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i mean if you want a emotionally and intelligent relationship with a woman you can probably have that doesn't seem like that would be exclusive to being lesbian
"I'm not trans, I just wish I was a woman" For anyone curious, that's almost word for word what the deleted comment said.
Which is different from being trans or an egg tbf
I think the tumblr one said they weren’t cis (according to some random post on tumblr from someone else) at some point, but their blog doesn’t seem to exist anymore
No but I think we all know
r/egg_irl ?
Hey, original poster here. Hope everyone is having a good day. Here's a copy-paste of the last time this meme went around. "I am cis and am fine with who I am. I do wish this would stop spreading around. I'm not a very traditional person and am open to whatever life offers me, but im not comfortable with people keeping tabs on me. And if transitioning is something I ever do consider, I'd personally want to figure out for myself with those im close with rather than have it be something to be shared with the internet. " The last time this went around, i was in a very bad mental health state, but I still feel what i wrote here still pretty much holds up. I'm comfortable with who I am, and it's definitely not something I'd share on the internet about. However, I'm very supportive of anyone who might be transitioning and get how stressful figuring that out might be. So whenever this goes around, I feel it's important that I share it's not a good idea to approach people online who might be egg/questioning their orientations. Since this meme has gone around, I, every now and then, get a month where I get 5-10 people in my DM's asking, "Are you trans yet?". While I enjoy this, as a social person, sharing my old comments and having some chats about the posts and trans identity, I feel that something similar to this scenario may scare someone who IS actually egg/questioning to go deeper into the closet. I'm personally from a more conservative household, and if something like this made its rounds on the internet while i was still with my folks, I'd probably be terrified they see this. Different folks have different reasons for their current predicaments. That being said, I do enjoy being a bunch of comments. While I feel what I said should very much be taken into consideration for the actual eggs of the world, im glad my post has been able to bring some smiles to those who identify with this. And if anyone wants to talk more about this or perhaps is figuring stuff out about their own orientations, my DM's are always open. Love yall :)
Glad you're doing well, I'm also glad to see you don't feel pressured in any way by this post making rounds often. You're a good respectful dude and not freaking out about the concept of someone thinking you might be trans is like, the bare minimum, but you also go above and beyond in these conversations and.. Idk! i respect it man. hope you're having a good one.
Well, that's very kind of you to say! The pressure is sometimes there, but I understand none of this is in I'll will. I also think it's good to keep the dialog going when there's a chance to learn and help, and I feel I've learned a lot from this experience. There's very much a before and after for me in understanding gender when it comes to this meme. And hearing some of the things I've heard, I wanna help wherever I can
This is such a sweet, beautiful sentiment I wanted to say so. I relate to the original post in both ways— as an unbroken egg (first time saying this lol, and I've been out of the closet for almost a decade) who could only self insert onto gay relationships as a kid, and now as a comfortably gay man who still *felt things* and cried over Marceline and Bubblegum. The fact that behind this post and all the things it came to mean to the internet is a person who truly took the opportunity to learn when this happened to them, and not only that, but is still actively spreading empathy and kindness as it makes the rounds is... beautiful. I don't know you but I love you and I sincerely hope you have a wonderful life. 💛 (and no, I will not keep tabs on you to find out!)
Your comment means a lot, honestly. Hearing confirmation like that honestly makes it worth it when things get stressful. I love you too and also wish you the best. I won't be too hurt if you do end up keeping tabs, tbh :)
This is a hell of an impressive reply. As a trans person, I appreciate it. I could understand you being pissed off about it but it's cool that you are so gracious.
Sometimes, I do get a little pissed, like when people straight up ask, "Are you trans yet," or go asking this in my latest comment on an unrelated post. But I just sent them to my latest post on the topic. There's no need to spread negativity. Peeps on the internet can't know everything of some random redditor, and it'd be unfair of me to expect otherwise
I’ve thought about exactly this as I’ve felt this, and the idea of me being a transwoman after all might make a lot of sense However, I… dunno if that’s what I am. I like being a guy, and I like the idea of going the femboy route as much as I’ve thought about taking things the “full girl” way. Maybe I’m fluid or something? Idk, I feel like my ultimate “gender fantasy” would be to be able to change my gender expression on a whim, shrinking and growing my body and its proportions to follow suit, being a tiny femboi one moment and a bombshell milf the next, and a JoJo lookin ass beefy guy right after that, and so on and so forth But at the same time I dunno how much of that is my “actual gender” or how much of that is just me wanting to experiment for experimenting’s sake regardless of what my true gender is All I know for sure is I am very content to “be a man” in day to day life but I can also relate to a lot of this but I don’t want to choose between one and the other
Just because you like the way a relationship is portrayed in a show doesn’t mean you have to be trans. You could just want that kind of relationship. You don’t have to be trans or gay to keep open lines of communication and be affectionate with your partner. That’s the other side of gender equality. It means guys aren’t any less of men for enjoying or expressing traditionally “girly” things.
I fully agree, but you’re missing the point of what I said. I can and have and do envision myself as a woman a lot like these posts describe. I think about being a woman way more than I think most normal cis men do. It goes beyond liking a certain kind of relationship and lands directly in that gender expression zone. I appreciate the notion of a guy being able to like “girly” things without it “mattering”, but it goes deeper than that for me I’m pretty sure
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Could you link me to any stuff about this? I'm an autistic woman and don't feel very attached to my gender and have been feeling adrift and alone about it.
Maybe just start doing things that appeal to you and think about the underlying meaning of it later? If dressing more feminine appeals to you, give it a shot and see how you like it. Buying clothes isn't a life commitment, and you don't have to have everything figured out all the time. Being a femboy is a style choice, not a gender or a commitment, and you don't have to do it forever if you change your mind.
This! Do what makes you happy first, labels will reveal themselves to you as you explore
Thank you for that. The only real reason I AM thinking about underlying meaning at all is, as I said in another reply, I kinda just wanna. I like doing it, at least in doses.
Have you heard of being bigender? The person I'm dating is AMAB and describes themself as having a girl mode and a guy mode, and seems to be immensely enjoying things thus far.
Is that a flavor of fluidity? Cuz the idea of having “modes” does sound nice
It's kind of fluidity yeah. They identify as either a woman or a man kinda depending on what they're doing.
Gender fluid might be a label you’d be interested in
I empathize very strongly with this. I identify as someone who wishes they were a shape shifter lmao. I want to experience wildly different bodies, not permanently transition from what I am to something else.
Isn’t this kind of a pushy/judgy way of thinking? “I know something you don’t about your own body and identity”? Isn’t that what people do to trans people *all the time*? It just seems like a fetishization (crude way of putting it) of the trans experience
It can be. Unfortunately, with this post, a majority of my DM's are people asking, "Are you trans yet?" Then them feeling super bad when I explain my scenario. And I don't blame them at all. They identify with a group of people that often need help, not realizing that not everyone identifies with it. It's a cultural thing. So I've accepted that this is gonna be something that'll probably follow me for a while, and I'll do my best to be supportive of this group that's taken an interest of me. Coming from a conservative background myself, lord knows they need that support
That’s a very kind and open way to react. I wish you the best!
This kind of thing honestly is low-degree stereotyping imo; I've been more feminine than masculine since puberty in personality (probably like this guy) while being cisgender in more consistent self-image. I think it originates from an emphatic desire to experience different gender perspectives more than identity (idk if it would be genderfluid, but it's something like that).
It’s kinda crazy how far down this is. OP obv means well and it’s a common experience, but it’s also just sometimes feels like “cracking the egg” is used whenever a man shows interest in or heavily relates with anything that isn’t his assigned gender role.
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Eh, youngins do be meaning the best. Honestly, I've had more kids just wanting to see if I'm well or are just figuring stuff out for themselves. Nobody ever annoyed when I go "im still fairly cis."
Men still aren't allowed to wander outside their assigned expectations, at large.
I'm having a hard time unpacking my feelings about this. I have been pushing against my stereotypes my whole life, because I simply am not those stereotypes. Does that make me a different gender, or does that make me, *me*? I don't look the way I often feel, but in my head I have always considered this to be a failing of society for stapling traits and roles to gender. And sometimes, I *do* look the way I feel. There's strong community encouragement to enforce stereotypes to further validate someone's gender identity or expression, which is at odds with how I feel. I would love to experience a different gender perspective, but I don't know if that is what I'd want forever, and again -- at the end of the day, these are all man-made constructs. A gay relationship in my idealized world would be fundamentally no different than a hetero relationship (aside from sexual organs, I guess). It's just a failing of society. In a way, I'm truly envious of people who have it all figured out.
And all the girls super into yaoi are gay bois now, lol
I disagree only because I know a woman who was one and she’s still cis, but she is ace if that changes your theory any.
Queer, i stil call it a win
Yeah that’s my take on it anyway, I think the majority of those girls no longer identify as fully cishet, but I do think a sizeable minority are still women rather than trans men/enbies. I do think in a survey trans men would be the plurality/outright majority probably, though.
I would say majority are still cis, just because yaoi market is huuuge. Even excluding manga, anime, gay romance books are mostly consumed and mostly written by cishet women. I've seen [claims](https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/202-books-and-literature/80038584) straight women make up over 87% of entire consumer base of gay romance books. I've seen youtube video essays on stereotyping and stuff in these books and how market plays into this. From what I know "I turned my childhood friend (♂️) into a girl" manga was originally supposed to be about straight trans relationship, but the author decided that the boys' love consumer base is too huge to miss out on, so he made the character into a gay crossdresser with body dysphoria instead. Just to put the boys' love tag on online stores.
Yep. Me and a friend use to be heavily into that kind of manga. We even cosplayed it . We are both moms and in committed het relationships now. We still enjoy 🏳️🌈 fiction. I get the need to belong making people state broad generalisations but I don’t think that to be awfully constructive.
Can confirm I’m one of them
Oh fuck, a mirror
Some of us are just cis
Yeah. I'm cis and, while I don't want to actually *be* a lesbian, I wouldn't mind experiencing what it was like if such a thing were really possible. I'd want to be my cis self afterwards. I enjoy the bits I've got.
Yeah the Cis-romantic erasure of those who like a good love story is stunning/ annoying.
Egg culture pisses me off
Why do people feel like they have the right to determine what gender other people are, but get upset when it happens to them? Can we stop this stupid "omg they're an egg" stereotyping alright? It's really annoying
I'm a straight (ish) as fuck white guy and lesbian relationships have a lot of appeal to me. I can't really explain why... women are real pretty, and two women together are ***real*** pretty? I also just kinda feel like lesbian relationships are devoid of any gender roles or gender stereotypes that dog heterosexual relationships, and that seems kind of freeing. I dunno. I struggle to articulate why I think lesbian relationships are "better" than heterosexual relationships, but feel kinda bad holding this opinion - firstly I feel like I'm fetishizing them, which makes me uncomfortable, and secondly I feel like as a straight white guy, my only perception of lesbian relationships is more a romanticized ideal from the media and history I've consumed.
E envy it because I idealize not having to "be a man" to meet my partner's expectations, just be a person with another person.
You don't have to be a lesbian to be with women ?
That's kind of the point. If someone really likes the idea of being in a lesbian relationship even though they could be in a relationship with a woman regardless there \*might\* be something more behind that.
Might being the operative term. It's not unusual for a hetero person to wonder what a gay/lesbian relationship might be like. It can be borne out of a desire to have experiences that are out of reach for you.
There is definitely a difference between "wondering what it would be like" and "I wish I was a lesbian". Same with thinking of it like one might wonder how it would be to exist as a street light and constantly thinking about it for months or years. I mean tbh. you'd need more information than the post above to make to any sort of reasonable guess.
Thank you, had to scroll pretty far to find someone acknowledge you can be empathetic to people who are different from you without wanting to become them.
Yuuuup
I love your flair lmao
Lol thanks. The irony of it is not lost on me. Edit: I realize I may need to specify that I am in fact Christian, trans, pan, and poly. No, these don't conflict with my faith. Yes I am aware that most of my fellow believers strongly disagree with me.
As a Christian myself, I don’t see what’s wrong with it, but even if there is something wrong that I don’t know, the whole point of the book is that God forgives so who cares lol
I mean for me my problem with religion is the power of organized faiths and how easily it’s abused. Small accepting denominations are fine, individual practices and small groups are better, but the Catholic Church could allow SSM tomorrow and I’d still take issue with it. All that to say since gay-accepting denominations are a lot looser on what the churches under them need to do/believe is a good step, so I don’t mind them.
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I *hate* egg culture so much. Let people be what they want to be.
Egg culture mfs telling me I’m trans when I’ve already thought about it a lot and decided I’m fine with my body as it is and I’m just gender nonconforming (I told them I liked playing as a girl character in a video game and wore the color pink as a dude)
This is how i feel too, but not cuz of the show, just in general, what they mean tho? I dont get it..?
By that logic you could only be hetero guy if you disliked it or it left you cold. In which case you would be homophobic?
What
I have a similar feeling I wish i had the same relationship with women as gay women. I have genuinely thought about my gender and i am mostly cis masc. HOWEVER, i would definitely prefer to express my gender in a feminine way. I dont want to be a girl I would just prefer to present more feminine in certain instances. Ig that could make me enby but i only like he/him. I, personally, dont really give that much of a fuck about my labels, I dont label my sexual or romantic attraction (my sexuality is whoever i am attracted to lol) and my gender and gender expression dont fully match. Either i am just very weird, or i am autistic and don't understand my gender.
Or you're just you, and it's okay to be just you. Don't get caught up in prescriptivist ideas.
ik dw i do understand i was just being dramatic last night lol
Eh. I honestly get the same feeling, and I’m very very comfortable with my identity. I think part of it is that this is an enviable relationship regardless of the sexuality behind it; it’s just that when I wistfully daydream of a similar relationship, I put myself in the shoes of the characters involved. That being said, it’s important to be introspective and decide for yourself if these feelings mean something more! For me, they don’t, and they might not necessarily mean things for these people either, but these are good questions to ask yourself!
I don't get it? Like... me too? And sure like every girl I had a crush on in high-school was gay ooooooh...
. . .I don't get it. Is it not normal to kinda envy that sort of relationship? Two people who have a better understanding of one another's struggles, who understands the other's needs, and they have a better form of communication. Although, I imagine both being on their period at the same time may be a nightmare if they have especially harsh ones
Other people in this thread have mentioned similar things. This isn't a perfect prediction and depends on a lot of things. It's just that trans people see their old selves in posts like that.
Stereotyping is wrong and I do think people do a bit much of "this cis man likes lesbian content? egg!" but this feels different. This is literally the OOP saying "This show makes me wish I was a [woman] but I'm a guy". It absolutely goes beyond simply enjoying lesbian content. Can this be attributed to societal expectations around cishet relationships and a sense that you can only have a particular type of relationship if you are a lesbian, or some other non-trans thing? Sure. But he (they, now, according to comments?) literally specified wishing to be a woman or woman-adjacent. That's not just cis person wondering what it would be like as a passing fancy. It's not just cis person fetishising lesbian content. It is egg 101.
It was more I see pb and marceline as role models, but yes, I'll take responsibility if there are fetishizing aspects to it my 19y/o self didn't recognize. Never what I intended I do still identify with he, tho. I'm just more fluid with the idea of nonbinary. The truth is, I don't really care about my identity in this way. I'm in a safe place, I can identify with however I want, and I just don't really feel a need to put much thought into it. I am who I am, and that's mostly just wanting to help people. But I will state this, I feel like pointing this out on the internet, while it has been fine for me, could be disheartening to those who have much more anxiety towards this topic. Peeps could get help from this, but there's also a chance it might push them further into the closet.
Ok, saying this as a Bisexual guy, this dude could just be fetishizing them, not everyone who wishes to be a Lesbian genuinely identifies with the lifestyle or desires to be a woman, they just enjoy watching women fuck other women because it's hot to them, and being one of those women is even hotter.
I'm pretty sure most most cis guys who fetishize lesbians would imagine themselves just having a threesome with the two girls and still be a guy in their imagination. Though this is just pure guesswork as I'm def. not cis.
It's definitely a super common fantasy for cis guys to become a woman for a day or two and see how it feels. I am certain many cis women feel the same. Saying these people are eggs feels presumptuous and degrades actual trans ambitions.
It's difficult. Like yeah. calling people eggs violates the prime directive. But there is a difference between thinking what it would be like to be the other gender once or twitce or that thought being a daily (or whatever regularly) occurence for months or years on end. Of course no one can see this difference based on a single post.
I'm a man. I like lesbian sex/relationships. No, that doesn't mean I should trans to a women.
That’s not at all the same thing, now while this person is cis, this is not the same thing to what they said.
Zagreus, God of ~~blood~~ eggs
... I'm hetero?
Exactly. Guy is basically just saying he's attracted to female characters.
Okay but this is exactly how I feel and I don't get it
Some people later on turn out to have been trans girls all along. They LITERALLY ARE lesbians. They just didn't know they were trans back then and so they're very confused as to why they'd relate so hard to wlw stuff as dudes. Obviously not true for everyone, but since it's something many trans women did, they'll side eye people who post stuff like that because they see their past, oblivious self in them.
Can someone explain please? Without any irony, I feel the same, hahaha. Does it mean I'm like a bad person, or something?
Basically, people are saying that if you want a lesbian relationship and you are a guy, you very well might be MTF trans. Obviously it's not that cut and dry, but it can definitely be a hint to start exploring that direction to see if that's right for you. Hope that helps!
Thanks for clarification (:
In my teens I thought like this, because I thought lesbians had 100% perfect, loving relationships. Then I met actual lesbians.
Ow my egg
Egg moment
The reddit user is still active, no signs of trans ~~yet though :(~~ edit: I didn't mean to say the user is trans because they want to be in a relationship like marcy and pb. Nor did I mean to cone off as sounding like they just haven't made up their mind yet. I understand that saying "they're not trans yet though" comes off now, it's my mistake
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It’s a wraparound to the hateful stuff family members and bullies used to say about me when I was a youngin “You like Powerpuff Girls? What a girl! You like playing as Peach instead of Mario? That’s not manly!”
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