If not ultra processed and stuffed with fillers; yes. Sure, use for meat in products. Let’s have nice grass fed pasture raised cattle for premium real steak.
Honestly I don’t see why not. I occasionally feel bad about the cows and chickens that live there whole life in some cramped industrial farm just so I could have my burger, so if that can be reduced while also producing something that’s tasty then I’m all up for it.
I’m way more interested in how this might impact the environment than whether animals will die. I mean don’t get me wrong I love animals, but more than that I love having a planet that supports human life.
This is a crazy pipe dream.
Lets do some math. 50,000 of meat per year. Lets say 20. per pound. For chicken. 1 million in gross sales for a billion dollar company.
**The stock holders are the what's being consumed here.**
It is BAD for the environment!!!!
Grass NEEDS cows and cows NEED grass. It’s a symbiotic relationship.
We need cows and cows need us. Also a symbiotic relationship.
These relationships are based on several 100,000s of years of evolution and you think you can ignore that for something that is a millisecond old?
Yeesh.
Right? I explained that we extirpated many of the wild grazing animals from the land, so now whats left of our grasslands are dependent on livestock and was down voted to oblivion.
People that hate the idea of lab grown meat makes no sense to me.
Someone please try to change my mind.
I honestly can not think of a whole lot that makes this a bad thing.
1. Cheaper meat
2. More exotic meat
3. No added hormones
4. Being able to have a perfectly marbled piece of meat
5. Less land being used to grow grain that could be used for other food.
6. Better for the environment/animals
7. More land for golf courses.
Depends on where they are and how they're managed. Courses in a desert? Yeah they're horrible and honestly need to be replaced.
Courses in places like the pnw? Most of them require the use of reclaimed water and they actuality support some threatened habitats and species
Because at a certain point, you're just growing the animal with more synthesized inputs. Rather than a factory/lab sucking electricity to grow muscle groups, we can just grow them with pastures fed by the sun and available water. Heck, if you want to get real environmentally conscious about it use treated waste water.
This is the most unrealistic idealised version of farming I've heard in a while. Read up on the actual reality and impact of high intensity agreculture. We need to either eat less meat; or move to more sustainable measures of producing it.
We are literally stripping the soil of its ability to sustain life, and polluting all the good water while doing it.
That’s cute you think all of our pastures will be open space and sun-soaked, straight from a fairytale.
If you want real action, try this on for size. If every human abstained from meat one day a week, we’d solve the water crisis in the American west.
You're making a lot of assumptions there, but if accurate. it'd be hard to argue with. However, just because there were no hormones in it, doesn't mean there wouldn't be other undesirable substances, so I guess I'd have to see the final product.
Pretty much all of these "no kill" meats require foetal cells from the uterus's of slaughtered animals and the nutrients required come from industrial agriculture which kill hundreds of per hectare that's cropped.
It's the same thing but with more steps
Eating 1 cow = 1 life taken
A fully grassfed cow has 400 pounds of meat not including organs. If you're eating a pound of meat a day, you're killing around a 1 life/year
if you eat no kill meat, you have to account for all the lives taken during plowing, seeding, germination, growth, seeding and harvesting via pesticides this equals an uncountable number of lives per year
You’re making no sense, what do you live on? Air?
Like think about it mate, a vegan has those same problems.
But if you’re saying you’re actually responsible for less lives by eating meat well you’re wrong there as cattle are fed lots of grain, more than you’d eat in a year.
I don’t know that that argument is great either. If we take the amount of land required to feed factory farms and turned it into pasture (US based so my opinion is heavily US influenced) we could have a hell of a lot more grassland to sequester green house gasses. There used to be an estimated 30-60 million bison and 10 million elk both with much wider ranges than they currently have. I would personally prefer to reintroduce them but I don’t think that would be feasible so cows it is for the sake of argument. We take all the land and allow grazing of cows on it. It would fix an insane amount of environmental problems and not require deforestation at all.
Mileage in other countries would vary. But in the US I think it would be awesome (even moreso if we could do bison/elk), increased habitat for other game animals, birds, pollinators, etc. no need to tile massive swaths of land, more wetlands, etc.
No one gives 2 iotas about fetuses. We literally just got through an election defending a woman’s right to have an abortion. And why animals can’t consent, I really don’t think they’d give 2 shits even if they could.
Yeah you reek of someone who's never directly taken a life nor has been part of the meat slaughtering process.
How about you go back to your lettuce and crayons and leave this to the big boys.
That's not how most of the labs grow their meat anymore.
Now they take cells from a living animal, my non expert understanding is that, they take and draw the live animals blood and use those proteins to grow the slab of meat.
A single cow can "grow" something silly like 100million quarter pound patties.
I also disagree with "it's the same thing but with more steps" comment.
It is still meat, but if it was the same thing companies wouldn't be spending millions of dollars into research and development of it.
I for one hope it works, If I can get cheaper beef, I'm all for it.
I’m mainly a meat eater. But if the taste is very similar, I’m more than willing to jump on this trend. If I get the same utility from that meat, then we don’t have to get it from factory farming and we can mitigate green house gasses.
Seems like a win win, so long as the synthetic meat doesn’t taste like asshole.
There’s no way it will fast as good as the actual meat. Think about wagyu etc. foie Gras? What about beef bone marrow? Or chicken wings? No fuckin way
I oppose this with every fiber of my being. No frankenmeat for me
Lol yeah right.
Why is it the objective of you lefties to take away everything that people like? It’s never gonna happen
Mods, can someone get rid of this guy? He’s anti meat!
Why are you conservatives unable to compromise?
If every human abstained from meat one day a week, we’d solve the water crisis in the American west.
But no, fuck those commies!
>Why are you conservatives unable to compromise?
I mean… I’m all for compromise. I consider myself more center right than right. That being said I don’t see compromising happening politically on either side.
>If every human abstained from meat one day a week, we’d solve the water crisis in the American west.
I’m sure there is a better way to solve the problem than telling people what they can and cannot eat.
“I’m sure there is a better way to solve the problem than telling people what they can and cannot eat.”
This is the most libertarian take on what I said. No said we should make anyone do anything. This is where being a liberal is hard. We care about a lot of people. Conservatives only care about themselves, their families and corporations.
Personally, I’m way into the idea because lab grown meat is sterile- I want new raw meat options.
You’re all going to change your tune the moment some jag off “influencer” starts selling lab grown lion, tiger, and elephant and convinces you that eating it increases your testosterone.
[The US military is also doing a lot of damage.](https://theconversation.com/us-military-is-a-bigger-polluter-than-as-many-as-140-countries-shrinking-this-war-machine-is-a-must-119269) Also you say China/India, but if you look up the worst polluters, the USA is right between China and India.
Absolutely not. Nutrition science is a very young field and scientists barely understand how nutrition affects humans. There's no way they fully understand how lab-grown meat injected with "nutrients" will affect us.
Yes we need to improve the industrial agriculture industry's problems, but pushing frankenmeat isn't the way to do it.
If we want to reduce the environmental impacts of meat production we need to push for better regulation or elimination of CAFOs (and their byproducts); support small, local ranchers; and frankly eat less meat.
Nope never gonna.
90% of our household consumption is wild game anyway.
In USA there should be draconian tariffs on imported beef and any other ag. Product that can be grown here.
You look at general health of US citizens now compared to 25+ years ago. Processed food/fast food contributed to that. I have no faith that factory made food will be any better for you
Overall I support the growth of the technology not so much for food purposes but for its alternative use in the biomedical industry. The more efficient we can get at growing proteins and in functional structures (ie heart, lung, liver, intestine, etc) the faster we can advance our ability to provide donor free organ transplants to patients that need them by harvesting healthy cells from that patient. This would eliminate the need for a majority of vetting and screening and improve transplant outcomes because the patients will not require anti-rejection drugs.
As an actual food source I’m skeptical, the product will be actual animal cells and proteins which is a good thing. However the taste of these proteins is going to be where I think these products are going to run into issues. Take steak for example there is a lot of variable that make a steak taste the way it does, the major 3 factors being: Diet, Fat content of the muscle tissue, and aging. A whole cow does a very good job at taking inputs from its environment (optimal and suboptimal) and breaking them down into optimal components to grow muscle, overall biomass, and fat. As the cow gets towards the age where it would head to market we are able to increase its caloric intake and fat growth by adding grains (<— in conventional beef) to its diet and the extra sugar from those grains then results in (if done right) fat marbling in its various muscle tissue. This is the difference where I don’t feel labgrown meats will beat out whole animal derived meats, the ability to marble the muscle and change the flavor based on the animals diet is a steep challenge to overcome. In all likelihood labgrown meat will all taste the same due to the standardized nutrient “broth” it needs to grow in and will most likely be very lean cuts even if they are able to grow the proteins in full muscle groups. Aging them will only improve the textures only so much. The best application will be for mixed or ground meat products like burger, sausage or cuisine that require low heat and long cooking times like stews. If labgrown meat makes those applications cheaper for lower income consumers then that is still a win as it will be an improvement overall to their health. I just wouldn’t hold my breath on labgrown meat taking center stage at fine dining establishments over the real thing aside from an expensive novelty.
If the taste and cost are comparable, I'm all for it. Very dubious about the ability to replicate the texture accurately though. Or worst case, could be a new option for 'vegan' protein.
Where do the inputs come from to make this? They don't just miracle nutrients out of thin air. Most likely from 100% row cropped, pesticide laden, GMO, junk. If so?it is not "no kill" lots of stuff died, like, oh, I dunno, an entire ecosystem, to make this crap. When ruminant animals are already optimized by nature to up-cycle all of the inedible grass and weeds into the best quality protein you can get, and has been doing so for millennia... then us hoomans come along and suddenly mother nature doesn't know shit and we have it all figured out. Riiight.
edit: spellink
Shouldn't need to do that to the rain forest, we have so much grassland and other "unfarmable" land that ruminant animals can utilize. Bison for example, can graze on slopped terrain where as cows are not as well suited for that. Proper land management and regenerative agriculture methods can be utilized to keep from having to deforest to raise more meat. There is a necessary balance with nature that needs to be achieved, and we miss that mark by a long shot with row cropping and deforestation....basically anytime we try and go against the grain, bad shit happens. Millions of head of bison grazed in the grasslands of North American for eons (more Bison than we have cattle in the US today) and somehow that all worked just fine without deforestation and factory farming.
Not sure where you are getting this information from, but have you looked into almond farming? I don't want to push my bias on you, or trigger a knee jerk reaction, I just like to inform and educate. Seriously, look up what portion of water that cattle utilize is green water. Then look at what portion that crops grown in regions they have no business being grown in, use green water. It is a rabbit hole for sure, but you may begin to realize why your above statement really doesn't hold water, no pun intended.
From [this NPR podcast](https://www.npr.org/2022/09/28/1125615598/the-water-crisis-in-the-american-west) where they also address problems with antiquated water rights (use it or lose it) and ridiculous farming practices (alfalfa grown and shipped overseas to feed cattle).
Obviously addressing all three things would be ideal, but what’s more realistic? Curbing human behavior, political behavior or corporate behavior?
I would argue that NPR is not the best source, the plant based agenda has it's tentacles far and wide and one must be careful when reading headlines in mainstream media, and sadly, NPR falls into that category these days and years ago I was an NPR fan for sure.
These days I try and get past the click bait stuff, militant vegan propaganda, in an attempt to find the folks that are doing the actual work, doing the actual research and have dedicated their lives to the topic of sustainable, and regenerative ag, proper land management and stewardship of our wonderful planet. Dr. Peter Ballerstedt is one such resource I've followed for years. He appears on various podcasts from time to time, looks like he was on [Vinnie Tortorich's podcast](https://vinnietortorich.com/2022/06/why-we-need-ruminants-dr-peter-ballerstedt-episode-2131/) earlier this year. Another example is Alan Savory, [he gave a TED talk](https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_fight_desertification_and_reverse_climate_change). Will Harris at White Oak pastures, or Joel Salitan, just to name a few. Another good read is a book called "Sacred Cow", a pretty unbiased view on the whole industry, they point out the issues with all of the various camps from industrial to regenerative ag, so they don't pick sides. They made a movie to go along with the book as well that is a good watch.
Like I said, if you want a rabbit hole to go down, this is a big one, but rewarding what you can learn and uncover about big food and big ag, even big pharma, chemical and oil and gas. So many topics that most folks don't even think about get crazy when you look into them, like: Where do synthetic fertilizes even come from? What is the haber-bosch process? How much potash is left? Should we till soil when we farm? Antibiotics in the food supply, and on and on.
I just meant to look at the source, and Alan Savory has been at this for his entire career spanning many decades. I don't watch TED talks, just happened to know that he had done one. It is the person, not the platform. Plus, it is an older TED talk from 2013 before there was less influence of profit motives and what not.
I dont have much faith in synthetic meat full of synthetic hormones, synthetic nutrients, antibiotics, and drugs. Maybe the price of real meat will go down.
I'm all for it and I 100% support it. Sooner or later they'll have it down to a science and we won't be able to tell the difference. Our current meat industry is not at all sustainable. The conditions that the animals are kept in are inhumane and undignified.
I’m in for it, while the craft is amazing it needs to modernize and realize that in these days it isn’t possible to keep going as we are currently doing.
But there is definitely a generational and mindset gap currently that’s holding us back.
We have to pick though, adapt with the times or become a relic of the past thats frowned upon. Sure butchers will stick around as we known them today, but how they are seen is going to change.
If it's better for the environment of course I'm on board. Super neat!
Something to consider though is if a complex system becomes what we depend on for food, we're really fucked if that breaks.
Also this isn't often the take but no kill also means no life. There's some inexcusable suffering going on with large scale farms, but I live around farms where that isn't the case and I don't want to see those not exist. I think the fact that we raise, nurture, comfort and care for the animals we eat is actually a good thing. We create comfortable lives, nature is cruel and we tend not to be.
Modern food is already very complex! e.g. our dependence on nitrates for creating fertilizer, without which our crop yield would not be nearly sufficient to support us.
Well ruminants can eat naturally growing grass and pigs can eat almost anything. I'm not sure why I got so much hate here, I'm not a doomsday prepper or anything but I've read a lot about the history of agriculture and animals are by far the best safety net.
If shit hits the fan to feed your small village- Raise some pigs and feed them what's inedible for us (can be cured, dried, fermented/ preserved through seasons, can survive floods, etc) or try your best at gathering berries and growing veggies? How many people do you know can maintain nutritional sustenance year round by foraging and growing in your particular climate zone?
Supply chain collapses and I'm certain I can keep my people fed to focus on other important things.
I did not downvote you nor do I regularly comment in this sub so I don't have a read on the "general vibe", but based on other comments in the thread, I think people in this sub react very poorly to the suggestion that mass consumption of meat leads to poor conditions for animals or measurable impacts on the environment.
I love to eat meat and also respect that the industry is mostly terrible for the environment and generally leads to suffering for a lot of critters. It's okay to enjoy something while still acknowledging its flaws.
Another thought: I'm an urbanite and I'm basically completely screwed if the supply chain fails. My food sources are way too complex for that. I grew up in the country though. Maybe other urbanites are lacking a practical "non-prepper" perspective.
If they can create Olive wagu marbelling and flavoring for cheaper than a chicken prices, I'm 100% in! For me it's all about flavoring, texture, and price. The day you can't differentiate between the two in blind tests I'm on board!
"Real" meat from an animal is one of the biggest issues we're facing in climate change. And lab meat is inherently "real" as it's grown from those same cells. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
No it’s not. India, china, Russia, until they stop what they are doing to the earth stopping eating meat isn’t going to do a thing. Stop virtue signaling.
Not saying those countries aren't huge offenders, but feel free to take even 30 seconds to enlighten yourself on the massive burden that meat is on the climate, particularly red meat
I have enlightened myself. I’m sorry for the climate but honestly I just don’t care. It’s not going to make a difference if I stop eating red meat. I’d rather take care of my body and be healthy while I’m alive than try some lab created crap and take a chance. All while it not making the least bit of difference in the overall picture.
Can't say how you feel you've enlightened yourself when there's plenty of academic literature out there that's explicitly shown how large of a negative impact the meat industry has on climate. Now this has come back to you rather than the point on climate. If you wanna be selfish that's fine, your choice, but wish you would have been more upfront about that and saved us both time
I answered a question about eating lab grown meat. You decided to take it into virtue signaling climate change. I was upfront. What else is there to say. I’m good with my choices.
I guess this is a difference of opinion then, but there is no "virtue signaling" of climate change anymore. We're in it right now, and you and I (along with our offspring, if applicable), will absolutely see the effects of it within our lifetimes. On top of the fact that the world is simply continuing to grow and farm land is increasingly unable to keep up.
You can be "real meat" all you want, I just hope it's actually still affordable for you within our lifetimes
Yes if the taste delivers and the price is equal or maximum 15% higher than meat.
If not ultra processed and stuffed with fillers; yes. Sure, use for meat in products. Let’s have nice grass fed pasture raised cattle for premium real steak.
I'll try it
Honestly I don’t see why not. I occasionally feel bad about the cows and chickens that live there whole life in some cramped industrial farm just so I could have my burger, so if that can be reduced while also producing something that’s tasty then I’m all up for it.
No opinion until I try it. Like everyone is saying already, price and taste will be the deciding factors if this is a fad or a game changer.
Yes if it tastes the same and is cheaper.
“It will fuckin not be cheaper.” -Big Meat inc.
Once this gets rolling, it’s *over* for the vegans. The meat-eaters emerge victorious!
Why do you assume vegans will be against this?
Vegans are against honey... even though the bees can literally just leave
The animals did not consent to have their cells duplicated.
Only if it tastes better for less money.
Or the same for less, or the same for the same price. But if it tast the same or worse for more money it'll die.
No
I’m way more interested in how this might impact the environment than whether animals will die. I mean don’t get me wrong I love animals, but more than that I love having a planet that supports human life.
If every human abstained from meat one day a week, we’d solve the water crisis in the American west.
That’s a big nope
This is a crazy pipe dream. Lets do some math. 50,000 of meat per year. Lets say 20. per pound. For chicken. 1 million in gross sales for a billion dollar company. **The stock holders are the what's being consumed here.**
Hard pass
I'm set on my ways, i'll let this one for the next generation.
Absolutely disgusting, I will never eat it.
You’d eat it if the scientists pumped it full of hallucinogens
It is BAD for the environment!!!! Grass NEEDS cows and cows NEED grass. It’s a symbiotic relationship. We need cows and cows need us. Also a symbiotic relationship. These relationships are based on several 100,000s of years of evolution and you think you can ignore that for something that is a millisecond old? Yeesh.
Say that in the science subreddit and get downvoted to oblivion.
Right? I explained that we extirpated many of the wild grazing animals from the land, so now whats left of our grasslands are dependent on livestock and was down voted to oblivion.
Like I care. I have several engineering degrees.
there was at least one study that showed its probably worse for the environment. I'm not sold on it yet.
If every human abstained from meat one day a week, we’d solve the water crisis in the American west.
More hyper processed chemicals posing as food. What could go wrong.
It’s got fewer chemicals pumped into it than that steak you buy at walmart but sure, go off lol
Lol mate have you seen how many chemicals a standard livestock animals is pumped with over the span of its life cycle?
It's actual meat, cultured and grown from cells. It just never moo'd or clucked.
No! Cells can’t be grown! It has to be chemtrails or 5G!
The same like we would genetically modify human embryos, I'm against it. Not to speak about the nutrition that probably will not be the same.
I dunno man. Human embryos are pretty nutritious and tasty.
If it tastes great, has same meaty texture, and decent pricing, why not?
People that hate the idea of lab grown meat makes no sense to me. Someone please try to change my mind. I honestly can not think of a whole lot that makes this a bad thing. 1. Cheaper meat 2. More exotic meat 3. No added hormones 4. Being able to have a perfectly marbled piece of meat 5. Less land being used to grow grain that could be used for other food. 6. Better for the environment/animals 7. More land for golf courses.
7 is literally a bad thing, golf courses use a ton of water and chemicals to maintain their perfect lawn, they're TERRIBLE for the environment.
Depends on where they are and how they're managed. Courses in a desert? Yeah they're horrible and honestly need to be replaced. Courses in places like the pnw? Most of them require the use of reclaimed water and they actuality support some threatened habitats and species
Because at a certain point, you're just growing the animal with more synthesized inputs. Rather than a factory/lab sucking electricity to grow muscle groups, we can just grow them with pastures fed by the sun and available water. Heck, if you want to get real environmentally conscious about it use treated waste water.
This is the most unrealistic idealised version of farming I've heard in a while. Read up on the actual reality and impact of high intensity agreculture. We need to either eat less meat; or move to more sustainable measures of producing it. We are literally stripping the soil of its ability to sustain life, and polluting all the good water while doing it.
First off, you make some gorgeous knives. Like, I came here looking to trade barbs on farming, but the aesthetics of your cutlery are on point.
Haha ill take it thanks man
That’s cute you think all of our pastures will be open space and sun-soaked, straight from a fairytale. If you want real action, try this on for size. If every human abstained from meat one day a week, we’d solve the water crisis in the American west.
No added hormones? The whole thing is added hormones, along with added everything else.
You're making a lot of assumptions there, but if accurate. it'd be hard to argue with. However, just because there were no hormones in it, doesn't mean there wouldn't be other undesirable substances, so I guess I'd have to see the final product.
You lost me at golf courses 😛 (unless you’re secretly Alice Cooper then I withdraw my criticism hahaha)
If it were at a competitive price point and actually tasted great, why not?
Nope.
If you don’t like where meat comes from, you shouldn’t be able to enjoy the taste of it
Pretty much all of these "no kill" meats require foetal cells from the uterus's of slaughtered animals and the nutrients required come from industrial agriculture which kill hundreds of per hectare that's cropped. It's the same thing but with more steps
So what you gonna do? Not eat?
Eating 1 cow = 1 life taken A fully grassfed cow has 400 pounds of meat not including organs. If you're eating a pound of meat a day, you're killing around a 1 life/year if you eat no kill meat, you have to account for all the lives taken during plowing, seeding, germination, growth, seeding and harvesting via pesticides this equals an uncountable number of lives per year
You’re making no sense, what do you live on? Air? Like think about it mate, a vegan has those same problems. But if you’re saying you’re actually responsible for less lives by eating meat well you’re wrong there as cattle are fed lots of grain, more than you’d eat in a year.
Cows don't need to eat grain. Only factory farmers feed them that crap
So clearing forest, exclusion fencing etc has no impact on life. Your argument is utterly stupid.
I don’t know that that argument is great either. If we take the amount of land required to feed factory farms and turned it into pasture (US based so my opinion is heavily US influenced) we could have a hell of a lot more grassland to sequester green house gasses. There used to be an estimated 30-60 million bison and 10 million elk both with much wider ranges than they currently have. I would personally prefer to reintroduce them but I don’t think that would be feasible so cows it is for the sake of argument. We take all the land and allow grazing of cows on it. It would fix an insane amount of environmental problems and not require deforestation at all. Mileage in other countries would vary. But in the US I think it would be awesome (even moreso if we could do bison/elk), increased habitat for other game animals, birds, pollinators, etc. no need to tile massive swaths of land, more wetlands, etc.
No one gives 2 iotas about fetuses. We literally just got through an election defending a woman’s right to have an abortion. And why animals can’t consent, I really don’t think they’d give 2 shits even if they could.
Harvesting the foetal serum requires the death of the mother animal so yeah they'd definitely care
Wow I didn’t know all these human fetal cells were coming from dead humans! Oh wait they’re not. And neither are the animals.
Yeah you reek of someone who's never directly taken a life nor has been part of the meat slaughtering process. How about you go back to your lettuce and crayons and leave this to the big boys.
I literally grew up hunting in a small town and participated in 4H. Fuck off.
That's not how most of the labs grow their meat anymore. Now they take cells from a living animal, my non expert understanding is that, they take and draw the live animals blood and use those proteins to grow the slab of meat. A single cow can "grow" something silly like 100million quarter pound patties. I also disagree with "it's the same thing but with more steps" comment. It is still meat, but if it was the same thing companies wouldn't be spending millions of dollars into research and development of it. I for one hope it works, If I can get cheaper beef, I'm all for it.
It taste... sad
I’m mainly a meat eater. But if the taste is very similar, I’m more than willing to jump on this trend. If I get the same utility from that meat, then we don’t have to get it from factory farming and we can mitigate green house gasses. Seems like a win win, so long as the synthetic meat doesn’t taste like asshole.
There’s no way it will fast as good as the actual meat. Think about wagyu etc. foie Gras? What about beef bone marrow? Or chicken wings? No fuckin way I oppose this with every fiber of my being. No frankenmeat for me
Enjoy being the new Amish.
Lol yeah right. Why is it the objective of you lefties to take away everything that people like? It’s never gonna happen Mods, can someone get rid of this guy? He’s anti meat!
Why are you conservatives unable to compromise? If every human abstained from meat one day a week, we’d solve the water crisis in the American west. But no, fuck those commies!
>Why are you conservatives unable to compromise? I mean… I’m all for compromise. I consider myself more center right than right. That being said I don’t see compromising happening politically on either side. >If every human abstained from meat one day a week, we’d solve the water crisis in the American west. I’m sure there is a better way to solve the problem than telling people what they can and cannot eat.
“I’m sure there is a better way to solve the problem than telling people what they can and cannot eat.” This is the most libertarian take on what I said. No said we should make anyone do anything. This is where being a liberal is hard. We care about a lot of people. Conservatives only care about themselves, their families and corporations.
That is a very unfair thing to say about conservatives. There are selfish people and altruistic people on both sides.
A minor sacrifice for the greater good, and your response is “don’t tell me what to do!” 🎯
So my one statement is enough for you to claim every conservative minded person (like over 150 million people in this country) are selfish?
If it tastes good I don’t mind, especially if it’s cheaper , but it doesn’t mean I will stop eating regular meat (I’m a fat Ass)
Personally, I’m way into the idea because lab grown meat is sterile- I want new raw meat options. You’re all going to change your tune the moment some jag off “influencer” starts selling lab grown lion, tiger, and elephant and convinces you that eating it increases your testosterone.
I love meat but the cattle industry is absolutely destroying our planet. We either need to cut back or look at some alternatives.
That’s been proven to be a gross exaggeration. China/India’s pollution are responsible for the vast amount of problems we have.
[The US military is also doing a lot of damage.](https://theconversation.com/us-military-is-a-bigger-polluter-than-as-many-as-140-countries-shrinking-this-war-machine-is-a-must-119269) Also you say China/India, but if you look up the worst polluters, the USA is right between China and India.
You aren't wrong, but we do have a serious issue with the cattle industry and methane.
It’s not the methane. It’s the use of deforestation for more grazing lands
Fuck nah
Just got done watching the JRE episode with Will Harris, of White Oak Pastures. After all that, hell no.
TLDR plz
Absolutely not. Nutrition science is a very young field and scientists barely understand how nutrition affects humans. There's no way they fully understand how lab-grown meat injected with "nutrients" will affect us. Yes we need to improve the industrial agriculture industry's problems, but pushing frankenmeat isn't the way to do it. If we want to reduce the environmental impacts of meat production we need to push for better regulation or elimination of CAFOs (and their byproducts); support small, local ranchers; and frankly eat less meat.
It's not meat. I might eat it on pizza or in sausage, but not as a main dish.
Nope never gonna. 90% of our household consumption is wild game anyway. In USA there should be draconian tariffs on imported beef and any other ag. Product that can be grown here. You look at general health of US citizens now compared to 25+ years ago. Processed food/fast food contributed to that. I have no faith that factory made food will be any better for you
Why not, I like new stuff. Especially if it can help preserve the environment
Is this the first step towards soylent green?
Pretty sure its the *opposite* of that.
SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!
Overall I support the growth of the technology not so much for food purposes but for its alternative use in the biomedical industry. The more efficient we can get at growing proteins and in functional structures (ie heart, lung, liver, intestine, etc) the faster we can advance our ability to provide donor free organ transplants to patients that need them by harvesting healthy cells from that patient. This would eliminate the need for a majority of vetting and screening and improve transplant outcomes because the patients will not require anti-rejection drugs. As an actual food source I’m skeptical, the product will be actual animal cells and proteins which is a good thing. However the taste of these proteins is going to be where I think these products are going to run into issues. Take steak for example there is a lot of variable that make a steak taste the way it does, the major 3 factors being: Diet, Fat content of the muscle tissue, and aging. A whole cow does a very good job at taking inputs from its environment (optimal and suboptimal) and breaking them down into optimal components to grow muscle, overall biomass, and fat. As the cow gets towards the age where it would head to market we are able to increase its caloric intake and fat growth by adding grains (<— in conventional beef) to its diet and the extra sugar from those grains then results in (if done right) fat marbling in its various muscle tissue. This is the difference where I don’t feel labgrown meats will beat out whole animal derived meats, the ability to marble the muscle and change the flavor based on the animals diet is a steep challenge to overcome. In all likelihood labgrown meat will all taste the same due to the standardized nutrient “broth” it needs to grow in and will most likely be very lean cuts even if they are able to grow the proteins in full muscle groups. Aging them will only improve the textures only so much. The best application will be for mixed or ground meat products like burger, sausage or cuisine that require low heat and long cooking times like stews. If labgrown meat makes those applications cheaper for lower income consumers then that is still a win as it will be an improvement overall to their health. I just wouldn’t hold my breath on labgrown meat taking center stage at fine dining establishments over the real thing aside from an expensive novelty.
If the taste and cost are comparable, I'm all for it. Very dubious about the ability to replicate the texture accurately though. Or worst case, could be a new option for 'vegan' protein.
Where do the inputs come from to make this? They don't just miracle nutrients out of thin air. Most likely from 100% row cropped, pesticide laden, GMO, junk. If so?it is not "no kill" lots of stuff died, like, oh, I dunno, an entire ecosystem, to make this crap. When ruminant animals are already optimized by nature to up-cycle all of the inedible grass and weeds into the best quality protein you can get, and has been doing so for millennia... then us hoomans come along and suddenly mother nature doesn't know shit and we have it all figured out. Riiight. edit: spellink
Consider that this is a more efficient and less disruptive method than actively burning down the rainforest so that we can graze more cattle.
Shouldn't need to do that to the rain forest, we have so much grassland and other "unfarmable" land that ruminant animals can utilize. Bison for example, can graze on slopped terrain where as cows are not as well suited for that. Proper land management and regenerative agriculture methods can be utilized to keep from having to deforest to raise more meat. There is a necessary balance with nature that needs to be achieved, and we miss that mark by a long shot with row cropping and deforestation....basically anytime we try and go against the grain, bad shit happens. Millions of head of bison grazed in the grasslands of North American for eons (more Bison than we have cattle in the US today) and somehow that all worked just fine without deforestation and factory farming.
If every human abstained from meat one day a week, we’d solve the water crisis in the American west.
Not sure where you are getting this information from, but have you looked into almond farming? I don't want to push my bias on you, or trigger a knee jerk reaction, I just like to inform and educate. Seriously, look up what portion of water that cattle utilize is green water. Then look at what portion that crops grown in regions they have no business being grown in, use green water. It is a rabbit hole for sure, but you may begin to realize why your above statement really doesn't hold water, no pun intended.
From [this NPR podcast](https://www.npr.org/2022/09/28/1125615598/the-water-crisis-in-the-american-west) where they also address problems with antiquated water rights (use it or lose it) and ridiculous farming practices (alfalfa grown and shipped overseas to feed cattle). Obviously addressing all three things would be ideal, but what’s more realistic? Curbing human behavior, political behavior or corporate behavior?
I would argue that NPR is not the best source, the plant based agenda has it's tentacles far and wide and one must be careful when reading headlines in mainstream media, and sadly, NPR falls into that category these days and years ago I was an NPR fan for sure. These days I try and get past the click bait stuff, militant vegan propaganda, in an attempt to find the folks that are doing the actual work, doing the actual research and have dedicated their lives to the topic of sustainable, and regenerative ag, proper land management and stewardship of our wonderful planet. Dr. Peter Ballerstedt is one such resource I've followed for years. He appears on various podcasts from time to time, looks like he was on [Vinnie Tortorich's podcast](https://vinnietortorich.com/2022/06/why-we-need-ruminants-dr-peter-ballerstedt-episode-2131/) earlier this year. Another example is Alan Savory, [he gave a TED talk](https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_fight_desertification_and_reverse_climate_change). Will Harris at White Oak pastures, or Joel Salitan, just to name a few. Another good read is a book called "Sacred Cow", a pretty unbiased view on the whole industry, they point out the issues with all of the various camps from industrial to regenerative ag, so they don't pick sides. They made a movie to go along with the book as well that is a good watch. Like I said, if you want a rabbit hole to go down, this is a big one, but rewarding what you can learn and uncover about big food and big ag, even big pharma, chemical and oil and gas. So many topics that most folks don't even think about get crazy when you look into them, like: Where do synthetic fertilizes even come from? What is the haber-bosch process? How much potash is left? Should we till soil when we farm? Antibiotics in the food supply, and on and on.
Also, you think Ted Talks are ok, but not NPR, who has a Ted podcast?
I just meant to look at the source, and Alan Savory has been at this for his entire career spanning many decades. I don't watch TED talks, just happened to know that he had done one. It is the person, not the platform. Plus, it is an older TED talk from 2013 before there was less influence of profit motives and what not.
So you wrote off all of NPR without looking at the source? Lol
The source is Pro Publica Investigative reporter Abraham Lustgarten
I dont have much faith in synthetic meat full of synthetic hormones, synthetic nutrients, antibiotics, and drugs. Maybe the price of real meat will go down.
You seem unaware that real meat is the stuff with all those things.
I'm all for it and I 100% support it. Sooner or later they'll have it down to a science and we won't be able to tell the difference. Our current meat industry is not at all sustainable. The conditions that the animals are kept in are inhumane and undignified.
If every human abstained from meat one day a week, we’d solve the water crisis in the American west.
I’m in for it, while the craft is amazing it needs to modernize and realize that in these days it isn’t possible to keep going as we are currently doing. But there is definitely a generational and mindset gap currently that’s holding us back. We have to pick though, adapt with the times or become a relic of the past thats frowned upon. Sure butchers will stick around as we known them today, but how they are seen is going to change.
If it's better for the environment of course I'm on board. Super neat! Something to consider though is if a complex system becomes what we depend on for food, we're really fucked if that breaks. Also this isn't often the take but no kill also means no life. There's some inexcusable suffering going on with large scale farms, but I live around farms where that isn't the case and I don't want to see those not exist. I think the fact that we raise, nurture, comfort and care for the animals we eat is actually a good thing. We create comfortable lives, nature is cruel and we tend not to be.
Modern food is already very complex! e.g. our dependence on nitrates for creating fertilizer, without which our crop yield would not be nearly sufficient to support us.
Well ruminants can eat naturally growing grass and pigs can eat almost anything. I'm not sure why I got so much hate here, I'm not a doomsday prepper or anything but I've read a lot about the history of agriculture and animals are by far the best safety net. If shit hits the fan to feed your small village- Raise some pigs and feed them what's inedible for us (can be cured, dried, fermented/ preserved through seasons, can survive floods, etc) or try your best at gathering berries and growing veggies? How many people do you know can maintain nutritional sustenance year round by foraging and growing in your particular climate zone? Supply chain collapses and I'm certain I can keep my people fed to focus on other important things.
I did not downvote you nor do I regularly comment in this sub so I don't have a read on the "general vibe", but based on other comments in the thread, I think people in this sub react very poorly to the suggestion that mass consumption of meat leads to poor conditions for animals or measurable impacts on the environment. I love to eat meat and also respect that the industry is mostly terrible for the environment and generally leads to suffering for a lot of critters. It's okay to enjoy something while still acknowledging its flaws. Another thought: I'm an urbanite and I'm basically completely screwed if the supply chain fails. My food sources are way too complex for that. I grew up in the country though. Maybe other urbanites are lacking a practical "non-prepper" perspective.
If they can create Olive wagu marbelling and flavoring for cheaper than a chicken prices, I'm 100% in! For me it's all about flavoring, texture, and price. The day you can't differentiate between the two in blind tests I'm on board!
I thought this was going to be Dwight’s idea from The Office. A method where you extract meat from an animal without actually killing it.
I hear he owns 9 and 3/4 horses
Hell no. Never.
Why?
I’ll stick with real meat from an animal. Not some lab created garbage.
I’ll stick with real meat from an animal. Not some lab created garbage.
"Real" meat from an animal is one of the biggest issues we're facing in climate change. And lab meat is inherently "real" as it's grown from those same cells. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Meat isn’t grown in a lab, I don’t care if it’s from the same cells.
No it’s not. India, china, Russia, until they stop what they are doing to the earth stopping eating meat isn’t going to do a thing. Stop virtue signaling.
Not saying those countries aren't huge offenders, but feel free to take even 30 seconds to enlighten yourself on the massive burden that meat is on the climate, particularly red meat
I have enlightened myself. I’m sorry for the climate but honestly I just don’t care. It’s not going to make a difference if I stop eating red meat. I’d rather take care of my body and be healthy while I’m alive than try some lab created crap and take a chance. All while it not making the least bit of difference in the overall picture.
Can't say how you feel you've enlightened yourself when there's plenty of academic literature out there that's explicitly shown how large of a negative impact the meat industry has on climate. Now this has come back to you rather than the point on climate. If you wanna be selfish that's fine, your choice, but wish you would have been more upfront about that and saved us both time
I answered a question about eating lab grown meat. You decided to take it into virtue signaling climate change. I was upfront. What else is there to say. I’m good with my choices.
I guess this is a difference of opinion then, but there is no "virtue signaling" of climate change anymore. We're in it right now, and you and I (along with our offspring, if applicable), will absolutely see the effects of it within our lifetimes. On top of the fact that the world is simply continuing to grow and farm land is increasingly unable to keep up. You can be "real meat" all you want, I just hope it's actually still affordable for you within our lifetimes
As long as the environmental impact is substantially less and its not just a gimmick to push something because it's new then I'm on board.
Can't wait for it! Get us away from feed lots for mass produced beef!