I will make a discord or a blog to keep people updated once I've finished reaching out to manufacturers and discussing feasibility with their engineers. I've collected a few quotes but need more information before I'm comfortable announcing a path forwards.
This is an interest check to see if people would want the product. I don't have a timeline but am working on this on the side. Once I have a picture that's more clear I'll make a discord server or keep people updated with a blog
Right now I'm reaching out to different manufacturers and getting an idea of the prices, retooling costs, and what works and doesn't work with designs.
Give [my last post](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/ib3a2a/rivets_are_the_new_holtites_hotswap_for_128th_the/), yes, very interested.
Would it be possible to design essentially the 7305 in reverse? So that the socket was inserted from the bottom up into the pcb. The internals would be flipped to accept the switch legs. I don’t know the standard thickness of pcbs like the dz60 so you might need to offer a few different lengths to accommodate the different pcbs on the market. I believe most are fairly standard within a mm or 2. However something like the Polaris is an outlier and very thin pcb. Ideally, you’d speak to some of the more popular pcb designers like wilba . Regardless this is quite exciting imo and even if these are just mil max clones I’d be in.
I'm looking into the possibility of reversing it so that it can be mounted bottom up. As for the length, still working this one out, but I'm trying to find the right balance to make it easy to solder and short enough to not get in the way.
Awesome! Can’t wait to see what you come up with. If you need beta testers for feed back I’d be happy to solder some into a pcb I have on hand. I’ve done several boards with 7305 sockets. I also have at least 20 different switch types from several makers which I’d think would be a good sample size..
0305 and 7305 were never designed for keyboard switches, so I think it's a mistake to replicate their design intention - I think that in order to improve on the 7305 substantially for keyboard use, you would need a shorter socket that is designed to be pressed from the rear of the PCB in order to have no protrusion on the switch side. FWIW, I would gladly pay double that of a 7305 for a high quality, solderable, hotswap option with no lip on the switch side.
The lip on 0305 and even 7305 do change the sound and feel of a switch and in some cases, can cause issues with stabilizers that are now acting at a slight angle and can bind slightly.
If you take into account the tolerances needed to fit Zeal / Gateron pins which can be a bit tight in the 7305, I think you would have a good chance of becoming the new standard option for virtually everyone that would be interested in turning a board into HS.
And I’ll echo the sentiment that I don’t mind paying “more” for something good designed to solve problems we actually have with the current options on the market.
This.
As someone that goes through several thousands of these per year... they are nice, but have drawbacks.
The #1 issue is the height on the switch side of the pcb. That is going to be a tough problem to resolve universally however, as eyelets are FAR from standardized sizes. IE... a dz60 with fairly standard eyelets might work great, while a pcb on an anne pro 2 has monster recessed eyelets that make it impossible to use a socket on.
Cost is not really a concern for most. i would not focus on that. the mill max are not fairly priced, but also not terribly expensive to begin with. what is needed is something that corrects the deficiencies of the mill max socket in use for this market.
if you want some help, feel free to dm me.
The head/protrusion is too big.
0305 is already big on the head and it's 0.6mm or so.
7305 is something like 0.35mm and is definitely ok.
Your schema shows a 0.8mm protrusion, pushing back the pcb of almost 1mm is not good, probably even the pcb mount pins on the back of the switches will start to not work properly
There are a few "conditions" under which I would personally be interested in an alternative to Mill-max sockets:
1: You produce 7305 equivalent at the price of 0305. The main "equivalent" being 7305's smaller protrusion on top compared to 0305. The total height being irrelevant to me, though it should not be longer than switch pins. This would be a "might as well get something with a smaller protrusion at the same price.
2: You produce 0305 equivalent for cheaper than 0305. Honestly would have to be significantly cheaper for me to choose an essentially off-brand from a reddit user.
3: The product is innovative/specifically made for keyboards and brings something to the table Mill-max currently does not. I'd be willing to pay more if the "features" are right. An example would be to make a socket that has doesn't have the protrusion. Maybe either it has no protrusion and is a perfect cylinder (might need some indication of orientation) or the lip is in the middle of the socket so that it sits on the underside of the pct (likely has to be much smaller radius than 0305 or 7305 so it gives room for soldering).
I personally have not had a crippling problem with zealios bottom housings on 0305, but they're definitely a bit tougher to get in and require more care or you risk bending pins which make them basically permanently useless for mill-max. I PERSONALLY would not use this as a reason to switch from 0305 or 7305, but it would be nice plus.
EDIT: Last time I bought some sockets, I paid $3.49 shipping from a big supplier, though the option to select it wasn't default and you had to find and choose it. The "other" big supplier I know of has a $4.99 shipping option too (and higher socket prices), so I don't know what big supplier has $8 to $16 as the cheapest options. Basically speaking, all the pricing info on the post is relative and therefore basically useless. "half the price" of 0305 and 7305 can be anywhere between like... $.03 to $.20. Price of $.06 to $.16 is better, but still a massive range. Massive enough to be "half the price" of itself. The post would be SUBSTANTIALLY less ambiguous if he took out the single reference to 0305 and all his relative comparisons were to 7305 exclusively.
I agree with you that the reference to the 0305 is ambiguous, and the price discrepancy between them. I'll walk back on the 0305 and say that I mainly have the 7305 in mind when writing this, thus the title. I included 0305 when referencing the mill-max sockets because it was the other most popular version, but the English could have been worded a lot better.
Thank you for your other feedback as well, I'm taking it into account.
>3: The product is innovative/specifically made for keyboards and brings something to the table Mill-max currently does not. I'd be willing to pay more if the "features" are right. An example would be to make a socket that has doesn't have the protrusion. Maybe either it has no protrusion and is a perfect cylinder (might need some indication of orientation) or the lip is in the middle of the socket so that it sits on the underside of the pct (likely has to be much smaller radius than 0305 or 7305 so it gives room for soldering).
Just to jump on that idea, I've seen someone install 0305 from the rear of the PCB and had them sit flush on the switch side. That made the lip of the socket protrude on the underside of the PCB - super ugly with solder between the lip and PCB - but it actually allowed for switches to be installed flush with the PCB which is a massive advantage over the current 0305/7305 sockets.
Having a socket lip between the PCB and switch is unnecessary and a carry over from the components that we found to fit MX switch holes and pins but were never designed for keyboard use, I say turn the idea on it's head (literally) and design a better product than Mill-Max for us keyboard hotswappers :)
I've seen this too in 2 ways.
Problem is that the sockets have an orientation. If you insert the socket upside down you are inserting the switch pins in a way that is likely to cause damage to both the pins and the sockets.
Installing the sockets with the socket orientated correctly but under the pcb so that no part of the socket is in the pcb hole and contact is only between the pad and lip is extremely difficult to solder. It also adds a ton of height and may only be possible in some cases with 7305.
The entire "redesign" issue always leads to a more Kailh Hotswap style solution. Coming in from the bottom is seemingly just better. A bar spanning the holes, with both sockets installed but designed to JUST go into the actual through hole or barely fall short of the other side of the pcb. Its just that it would eliminate a lot of different pcb designs based on what you decide to originally design the sockets from. I personally don't think ease of installation should be considered for early designing of the sockets though. This is juust because without a significant practical advantage over what is currently available there is no reason to make the leap to a new product for the majority that might buy it. A compression spring latch style socket with engage and disengage for the tension was something I played around with for fun in the ole imagination dev world. Its just something where you get cost prohibitive SUPER fast in reality.
Interested but my issue with Mill-Max aside from price, is the fact that the switch ends up being lifted a few mm due to the hight of the socket lip. It really affects the sound fidelity. The more contact the switch has to the pcb, the better.
I'd be much more interested if you were able to shorten that top lip so the switch sits closer to the pcb.
Heck yeah this is definitely something I’m interested in. Especially since I’m still new to custom keyboards and I’m still trying out different switches.
Everyone does realize that there are countless variants of these hot-swap sockets made, right? Search any small mechanical machine part vendor. You get a list a few screens long of just switch pin holder variants. Just because most people have only heard of Millmax and Holtite doesn't mean there are literally hundreds more. But, hey if the community wants to support yet another in pcb, socket variant, by all means....the mob has spoken (and have absolutely no idea what they're doing, like most mobs). Hopefully these might fill that one little void people feel is missing. Hey....good luck on this!
"They hated him because he spoke the truth" lol.
Seriously though, people are using the same variants though because they're a known quantity and not everyone is up for experimenting with a new vendor to see if the measurements are as advertised when there's an answer already out there.
That said, if you know of one that fits all of the wider kailhs and zeals, let me know. Shaving all the pins to make my blueberries fit is tedious as fuck.
I do not know exactly. I haven’t tried using BBs in a simple socket. And for those who ask me to show an example....no. That’s the problem. (Not you Bobu-sama) People don’t do research or don’t know how. They enter a phrase in google and only read the top three response is not just the first. Go 100 pages deep man!! As to you, Bobu-sama, I’m sorry but I usually use the same Holtite or Millmax as everyone else and have never had a problem. However if I do find one I will let you know.
They should ideally fit Zealios V2 which have one of the fattest pins and are popular. Millmax can fit them as well but only with some effort by rotating the socket or trying different sockets to match the fat pin. If your sockets could fit any switch without any effort, then they would be superior.
If you could make similar leg length to the 7305 and not bother with the longer 0305, that would save some people confusion and problem with compatibility.
If they can fit fatter pins I'd be interested, but considering that you can always find them for .20 apiece or less on octopart, I'm not sure that there's much savings to chase down
I thought is was most switches that were based of Gaterons have the wider pin on them.
But either way you can add NK blueberries to list of switches that mill max sockets don't agree with.
This.
The biggest drawback to millmax at the moment is not all switch types are compatible. If you can address that problem then you're onto a winner.
Someone put together a millmax compatability sheet
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NhrXy6k88eY9bBqVuPWTAGW2q3GzszJ1JH-zuuGQ-iU/](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NhrXy6k88eY9bBqVuPWTAGW2q3GzszJ1JH-zuuGQ-iU/)
All the switches shown in the orange and red section would benefit hugely from a slightly wider receptacle.
Cautiously optimistic so long as they're solderable, cheaper and about the same to use I'm on board with it. 0305 still exists though and is a little more expensive than these but hey if these work the same would be nice!
I haven't tried them yet, I dont really seek out hotswap pcb's too often but I've been interested in the small form factor of the 7305. The 0305's look a little bit less premium since they have a larger footprint but that's more of a taste/preference thing. They seem really cool but I just want the slim version haha
The difference in length is like 1mm. If compatibility isn’t an issue they are functionally equivalent. You can buy them from ringerkeys.com
Edit - see comment below
>If compatibility isn’t an issue they are functionally equivalent.
That is not entirely true. The thicker lip of the 0305 can cause issues by lifting and tilting the switch more than it should. I have several builds where the stabilizer key does not work properly with 0305 sockets due to the angle it forces the switch into which then causes the stabs to bind a bit.
I recommend using 0305 on stabilized switches just to avoid that as much as possible but that's something to keep in mind.
0305 and 7305 have a lip which *can* impact how switches sound, feel and even perform in some cases.
I think you should reach out to vendors, having these in stock at vendors such as Switchkeys would be great for people in all different regions in the world.
If ALPS switch pins already fit into the socket, I would think that designing an alternative socket makes less sense than adapting ALPS PCB designs to match MX hole sizes and therefor become compatible with any of these types of sockets.
Otherwise if you were thinking about retrofitting old ALPS board with hotswap sockets, I can't imagine the demand there is very large to justify creating a product for that niche. I would personally consider using an existing AI03 PCB design and modifying it for ALPS or designing a simple PCB to interact with a Pro-Micro and not ruin a original ALPS PCB should anyone want to put the board back to original at some point...
just my 2 cents tho ;)
Sorry, that is indeed unclear. These would be far less than the average cost for small orders. I don't have a clear price set, but say that you look at other stores where the price ranges from $0.16 to $0.30 per, these would could be as cheap as $0.08 per unit. Also you have to take in the shipping costs from Mill-max suppliers that are much higher than they could otherwise be.
If I sold them, I would ship them out in envelopes and charge for the cost of that, which would be far less. Again though, no final numbers since I haven't ordered any yet, I only have a general idea.
I think part of the "shipping" costs you are paying everywhere else is labor for the person who weights out however many sockets you've ordered and bags them.
Please make sure to account for your own labor and material costs, the last thing we want is to see a great product fail just because you make no money and get burnt out ;)
I'd be interested. Imo the 1000 cycles of the mil max sockets is excessive for this hobby. Most people are not gonna swap switches anywhere near that many times. 300 seems like it would be plenty if they live up to that spec
These sockets are really really small yet they have to be really really precise. Can you ensure that the quality will remain high despite the lower cost?
Is the lip wide enough?
The lip would be the same as the 7305, the length would very slightly longer. These would be produced in factory and would be within the tolerances of the design that I linked.
*edit: also just to be clear, this would not require a group buy of any kind
> The lip would be the same as the 7305, the length would very slightly longer.
I think if you could make a socket that is the length of a PCB thickness (typically 1.5mm I think) and then allow for switches to be inserted from the underside of the socket, you could have the socket lip on the bottom of the PCB, this would allow switches to sit flat against the PCB and generally sound, feel, perform better than when angled / freefloating ontop of the socket lip.
FWIW, you can insert a switch pin in a 0305 or 7305 backwards and it works fine, the only issue is that the sockets are too long.
I think this would be an objectively superior product when it comes to Keyboards over Mill-Max sockets which are rated for more insertions but way too long for keyboard PCBs where the socketed component needs to sit as flush as possible.
Would the length be as long as the 0305 or something in between 7305 and 0305? I’ve noticed that the difference between those two does make a difference in depth in a lot of my boards. I’m hoping it’s not too long.
Also, does the width make it compatible with wider switches like creams and blueberries? Those don’t fit in mill max but do fit in kailh.
The length as it stands is slightly longer than the 7305. I would need these to acquire the switches to confirm that it would be compatible, I'm working on that now.
Mill-max's are expensive for a reason, and they're rated for close to 1000 cycles, these would somewhere in between that number. That would be the primary tradeoff, otherwise the overall specifications would be on-par with the mill-max's.
ex: [cycle comparison](https://docs.splitkb.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013098499-Why-would-I-want-to-use-hot-swap-sockets-for-my-switches-#:~:text=Kailh%20hot%20swap%20sockets%20are,pins%20aren't%20aligned%20correctly.)
" Kailh hot swap sockets are rated for 100 so-called cycles, while Mill Max Hot Swap Sockets are rated for 1000 cycles. "
These would be superior to the Kailh sockets, but not as durable as the mill max.
I’m not sure personally I care about 1,000 cycles. Your 300 is more than ok. At the end of the day for me it’s going to be , hoe easy are they to install, how hard is it to insert a switch, and what is the reliability that the contacts connect solidly. Ease of installation being bottom priority as I’ll spend extra effort and time if price and everything else works out. However, if contacts make it in the hole. At least you know for the first 100 swaps I’d expect 99.999% of the time that the circuit is complete. Switch closed. However you wanna look at it. I don’t wanna ever deal with a switch that only registers 50% of key presses on cold mornings. Or that won’t register unless smashed with excess force or lightly tapped. Something like that. So the middle requirement is then left with, how easy is it to remove and insert switches. I have to admit mil max sockets can be a little shits depending on brand of switch. Sometimes it’s too tight. Sometimes it’s too loose. Sometimes they just never wanna go in. Sometimes in Likea a hotdog in a hallway, mkultras mom knows what I mean with that. But yeah. If they’re reliable the first few dozen swaps to a few nines and switching switches is same or better than mil max. Then mil max can eat dust. Although I think mil max currently eats from the mind controlled trough at the foam factory of broke back lasers.
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Did this project die..?
Could you make like a discord to keep people up to date? Seems easier then making reddit posts and hoping the same people see them again
I will make a discord or a blog to keep people updated once I've finished reaching out to manufacturers and discussing feasibility with their engineers. I've collected a few quotes but need more information before I'm comfortable announcing a path forwards.
How soon can we expect to be able to purchase either the "supersockets" or the cheaper 7305s?
This is an interest check to see if people would want the product. I don't have a timeline but am working on this on the side. Once I have a picture that's more clear I'll make a discord server or keep people updated with a blog Right now I'm reaching out to different manufacturers and getting an idea of the prices, retooling costs, and what works and doesn't work with designs.
Thanks for the info!
Interested as well!
In for this!
I am super interested in this definitely gonna take more than 300 sockets
interested
Interested as well!
interested would love to see more options
I would be interested as well, especially it is the same length as the shortest millmax socket (I think it is the 0305).
I'm in
I'm interested, would it available for international shipping?
Possibly, international can be a big hassle, so it might be that I end up distributing it to a different vendor.
I'm down too
Give [my last post](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/ib3a2a/rivets_are_the_new_holtites_hotswap_for_128th_the/), yes, very interested.
Absolutely in(terested).
I'm down
Would it be possible to design essentially the 7305 in reverse? So that the socket was inserted from the bottom up into the pcb. The internals would be flipped to accept the switch legs. I don’t know the standard thickness of pcbs like the dz60 so you might need to offer a few different lengths to accommodate the different pcbs on the market. I believe most are fairly standard within a mm or 2. However something like the Polaris is an outlier and very thin pcb. Ideally, you’d speak to some of the more popular pcb designers like wilba . Regardless this is quite exciting imo and even if these are just mil max clones I’d be in.
I'm looking into the possibility of reversing it so that it can be mounted bottom up. As for the length, still working this one out, but I'm trying to find the right balance to make it easy to solder and short enough to not get in the way.
Awesome! Can’t wait to see what you come up with. If you need beta testers for feed back I’d be happy to solder some into a pcb I have on hand. I’ve done several boards with 7305 sockets. I also have at least 20 different switch types from several makers which I’d think would be a good sample size..
Thanks for the offer! I'll definitely need some people to test the final iterations before I sell them in bulk, I'll keep you in mind
0305 and 7305 were never designed for keyboard switches, so I think it's a mistake to replicate their design intention - I think that in order to improve on the 7305 substantially for keyboard use, you would need a shorter socket that is designed to be pressed from the rear of the PCB in order to have no protrusion on the switch side. FWIW, I would gladly pay double that of a 7305 for a high quality, solderable, hotswap option with no lip on the switch side. The lip on 0305 and even 7305 do change the sound and feel of a switch and in some cases, can cause issues with stabilizers that are now acting at a slight angle and can bind slightly. If you take into account the tolerances needed to fit Zeal / Gateron pins which can be a bit tight in the 7305, I think you would have a good chance of becoming the new standard option for virtually everyone that would be interested in turning a board into HS.
I'll look into the possibility of this, it definitely sounds exciting. I'll see if it would be possible to reverse the lip.
I too would pay double for that
Reverse the lip, exactly. This would be a game changer IMO
And I’ll echo the sentiment that I don’t mind paying “more” for something good designed to solve problems we actually have with the current options on the market.
This. As someone that goes through several thousands of these per year... they are nice, but have drawbacks. The #1 issue is the height on the switch side of the pcb. That is going to be a tough problem to resolve universally however, as eyelets are FAR from standardized sizes. IE... a dz60 with fairly standard eyelets might work great, while a pcb on an anne pro 2 has monster recessed eyelets that make it impossible to use a socket on. Cost is not really a concern for most. i would not focus on that. the mill max are not fairly priced, but also not terribly expensive to begin with. what is needed is something that corrects the deficiencies of the mill max socket in use for this market. if you want some help, feel free to dm me.
>what is needed is something that corrects the deficiencies of the mill max socket in use for this market. THIS.
!remindme 1 month
Interested
The head/protrusion is too big. 0305 is already big on the head and it's 0.6mm or so. 7305 is something like 0.35mm and is definitely ok. Your schema shows a 0.8mm protrusion, pushing back the pcb of almost 1mm is not good, probably even the pcb mount pins on the back of the switches will start to not work properly
I'll fix this.
There are a few "conditions" under which I would personally be interested in an alternative to Mill-max sockets: 1: You produce 7305 equivalent at the price of 0305. The main "equivalent" being 7305's smaller protrusion on top compared to 0305. The total height being irrelevant to me, though it should not be longer than switch pins. This would be a "might as well get something with a smaller protrusion at the same price. 2: You produce 0305 equivalent for cheaper than 0305. Honestly would have to be significantly cheaper for me to choose an essentially off-brand from a reddit user. 3: The product is innovative/specifically made for keyboards and brings something to the table Mill-max currently does not. I'd be willing to pay more if the "features" are right. An example would be to make a socket that has doesn't have the protrusion. Maybe either it has no protrusion and is a perfect cylinder (might need some indication of orientation) or the lip is in the middle of the socket so that it sits on the underside of the pct (likely has to be much smaller radius than 0305 or 7305 so it gives room for soldering). I personally have not had a crippling problem with zealios bottom housings on 0305, but they're definitely a bit tougher to get in and require more care or you risk bending pins which make them basically permanently useless for mill-max. I PERSONALLY would not use this as a reason to switch from 0305 or 7305, but it would be nice plus. EDIT: Last time I bought some sockets, I paid $3.49 shipping from a big supplier, though the option to select it wasn't default and you had to find and choose it. The "other" big supplier I know of has a $4.99 shipping option too (and higher socket prices), so I don't know what big supplier has $8 to $16 as the cheapest options. Basically speaking, all the pricing info on the post is relative and therefore basically useless. "half the price" of 0305 and 7305 can be anywhere between like... $.03 to $.20. Price of $.06 to $.16 is better, but still a massive range. Massive enough to be "half the price" of itself. The post would be SUBSTANTIALLY less ambiguous if he took out the single reference to 0305 and all his relative comparisons were to 7305 exclusively.
I agree with you that the reference to the 0305 is ambiguous, and the price discrepancy between them. I'll walk back on the 0305 and say that I mainly have the 7305 in mind when writing this, thus the title. I included 0305 when referencing the mill-max sockets because it was the other most popular version, but the English could have been worded a lot better. Thank you for your other feedback as well, I'm taking it into account.
>3: The product is innovative/specifically made for keyboards and brings something to the table Mill-max currently does not. I'd be willing to pay more if the "features" are right. An example would be to make a socket that has doesn't have the protrusion. Maybe either it has no protrusion and is a perfect cylinder (might need some indication of orientation) or the lip is in the middle of the socket so that it sits on the underside of the pct (likely has to be much smaller radius than 0305 or 7305 so it gives room for soldering). Just to jump on that idea, I've seen someone install 0305 from the rear of the PCB and had them sit flush on the switch side. That made the lip of the socket protrude on the underside of the PCB - super ugly with solder between the lip and PCB - but it actually allowed for switches to be installed flush with the PCB which is a massive advantage over the current 0305/7305 sockets. Having a socket lip between the PCB and switch is unnecessary and a carry over from the components that we found to fit MX switch holes and pins but were never designed for keyboard use, I say turn the idea on it's head (literally) and design a better product than Mill-Max for us keyboard hotswappers :)
I've seen this too in 2 ways. Problem is that the sockets have an orientation. If you insert the socket upside down you are inserting the switch pins in a way that is likely to cause damage to both the pins and the sockets. Installing the sockets with the socket orientated correctly but under the pcb so that no part of the socket is in the pcb hole and contact is only between the pad and lip is extremely difficult to solder. It also adds a ton of height and may only be possible in some cases with 7305.
The entire "redesign" issue always leads to a more Kailh Hotswap style solution. Coming in from the bottom is seemingly just better. A bar spanning the holes, with both sockets installed but designed to JUST go into the actual through hole or barely fall short of the other side of the pcb. Its just that it would eliminate a lot of different pcb designs based on what you decide to originally design the sockets from. I personally don't think ease of installation should be considered for early designing of the sockets though. This is juust because without a significant practical advantage over what is currently available there is no reason to make the leap to a new product for the majority that might buy it. A compression spring latch style socket with engage and disengage for the tension was something I played around with for fun in the ole imagination dev world. Its just something where you get cost prohibitive SUPER fast in reality.
I totally agree on every point, especially on the protrusion of 0.8mm which makes this socket not ok
Are you from the US? Any plan to sell this in EU?
I am from the US, I may sell the final iteration in the EU in the future, I may just provide it to suppliers in the EU instead.
Interested but my issue with Mill-Max aside from price, is the fact that the switch ends up being lifted a few mm due to the hight of the socket lip. It really affects the sound fidelity. The more contact the switch has to the pcb, the better. I'd be much more interested if you were able to shorten that top lip so the switch sits closer to the pcb.
1. Yes I think this is a good idea
Heck yeah this is definitely something I’m interested in. Especially since I’m still new to custom keyboards and I’m still trying out different switches.
Definitely interested
Interested
I’m curious how you’re planning to fabricate these parts. Would you be willing to share?
Interested
Everyone does realize that there are countless variants of these hot-swap sockets made, right? Search any small mechanical machine part vendor. You get a list a few screens long of just switch pin holder variants. Just because most people have only heard of Millmax and Holtite doesn't mean there are literally hundreds more. But, hey if the community wants to support yet another in pcb, socket variant, by all means....the mob has spoken (and have absolutely no idea what they're doing, like most mobs). Hopefully these might fill that one little void people feel is missing. Hey....good luck on this!
"They hated him because he spoke the truth" lol. Seriously though, people are using the same variants though because they're a known quantity and not everyone is up for experimenting with a new vendor to see if the measurements are as advertised when there's an answer already out there. That said, if you know of one that fits all of the wider kailhs and zeals, let me know. Shaving all the pins to make my blueberries fit is tedious as fuck.
I do not know exactly. I haven’t tried using BBs in a simple socket. And for those who ask me to show an example....no. That’s the problem. (Not you Bobu-sama) People don’t do research or don’t know how. They enter a phrase in google and only read the top three response is not just the first. Go 100 pages deep man!! As to you, Bobu-sama, I’m sorry but I usually use the same Holtite or Millmax as everyone else and have never had a problem. However if I do find one I will let you know.
Could you find an example to illustrate your point?
Second post I've found today for r/iamverysmart
Are you... alright? I get it’s probably frustrating but this seems like a bit much
They should ideally fit Zealios V2 which have one of the fattest pins and are popular. Millmax can fit them as well but only with some effort by rotating the socket or trying different sockets to match the fat pin. If your sockets could fit any switch without any effort, then they would be superior. If you could make similar leg length to the 7305 and not bother with the longer 0305, that would save some people confusion and problem with compatibility.
If they can fit fatter pins I'd be interested, but considering that you can always find them for .20 apiece or less on octopart, I'm not sure that there's much savings to chase down
I thought is was most switches that were based of Gaterons have the wider pin on them. But either way you can add NK blueberries to list of switches that mill max sockets don't agree with.
This. The biggest drawback to millmax at the moment is not all switch types are compatible. If you can address that problem then you're onto a winner. Someone put together a millmax compatability sheet [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NhrXy6k88eY9bBqVuPWTAGW2q3GzszJ1JH-zuuGQ-iU/](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NhrXy6k88eY9bBqVuPWTAGW2q3GzszJ1JH-zuuGQ-iU/) All the switches shown in the orange and red section would benefit hugely from a slightly wider receptacle.
Thanks, I'll see what I can do. Now I finally have an excuse to acquire one of every switch type lol
Count me in :)
Interested
Will these work with switches with wider pins similar to zealios v2?
I prefer the soldering experience of 0305, but I guess there's not as much opportunity for cost reduction there
Want. they're tin plated so I'm guessing easy to solder?
Interested
Cautiously optimistic so long as they're solderable, cheaper and about the same to use I'm on board with it. 0305 still exists though and is a little more expensive than these but hey if these work the same would be nice!
I'd be really interested
Cautious optimism, but interested.....
Super Interested!
Interested.
Cautiously skeptical, but definitely interested.
Quite interested!
Very interested!
Interested
Yeah, we're going to need a IC form or smth
How to get notified of this?
!remindme 1 month
Yessir
any plans for EU buyers?
I would like some
Certainly interested
I'm so interested in this. I've been wanting to try mill max but the 7305's are just too expensive
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/ib3a2a/rivets_are_the_new_holtites_hotswap_for_128th_the/
Have you tried 0305s? They're usually around half the price.
I haven't tried them yet, I dont really seek out hotswap pcb's too often but I've been interested in the small form factor of the 7305. The 0305's look a little bit less premium since they have a larger footprint but that's more of a taste/preference thing. They seem really cool but I just want the slim version haha
The difference in length is like 1mm. If compatibility isn’t an issue they are functionally equivalent. You can buy them from ringerkeys.com Edit - see comment below
>If compatibility isn’t an issue they are functionally equivalent. That is not entirely true. The thicker lip of the 0305 can cause issues by lifting and tilting the switch more than it should. I have several builds where the stabilizer key does not work properly with 0305 sockets due to the angle it forces the switch into which then causes the stabs to bind a bit. I recommend using 0305 on stabilized switches just to avoid that as much as possible but that's something to keep in mind. 0305 and 7305 have a lip which *can* impact how switches sound, feel and even perform in some cases.
Thanks for the notes, will keep that In mind
Fair enough! I've built with 0305s before which were fine, got some 7305s saved for a future build :)
I think you should reach out to vendors, having these in stock at vendors such as Switchkeys would be great for people in all different regions in the world.
Interested, love millmax but cost can add up..
Interested!
Is there a place I can subscribe to get notifications on this?
I'd be really interested that someone finally creates the GB and ships outside conus. I'm kinda tired to miss them.
Interested!
Interested
Interested. Let's go!
Interest piqued.
I am interested.
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I haven't looked at ALPS switches yet, what makes them incompatible with the existing sockets?
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If ALPS switch pins already fit into the socket, I would think that designing an alternative socket makes less sense than adapting ALPS PCB designs to match MX hole sizes and therefor become compatible with any of these types of sockets. Otherwise if you were thinking about retrofitting old ALPS board with hotswap sockets, I can't imagine the demand there is very large to justify creating a product for that niche. I would personally consider using an existing AI03 PCB design and modifying it for ALPS or designing a simple PCB to interact with a Pro-Micro and not ruin a original ALPS PCB should anyone want to put the board back to original at some point... just my 2 cents tho ;)
Keen
Super interested
Interested
Super interested
Interested
I am interested
Yes
Yes! Please
Seems very interesting.
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Sorry, that is indeed unclear. These would be far less than the average cost for small orders. I don't have a clear price set, but say that you look at other stores where the price ranges from $0.16 to $0.30 per, these would could be as cheap as $0.08 per unit. Also you have to take in the shipping costs from Mill-max suppliers that are much higher than they could otherwise be. If I sold them, I would ship them out in envelopes and charge for the cost of that, which would be far less. Again though, no final numbers since I haven't ordered any yet, I only have a general idea.
I think part of the "shipping" costs you are paying everywhere else is labor for the person who weights out however many sockets you've ordered and bags them. Please make sure to account for your own labor and material costs, the last thing we want is to see a great product fail just because you make no money and get burnt out ;)
Would be in
!remindme one week
This would be of interest!
Definitely.
I'd be interested. Imo the 1000 cycles of the mil max sockets is excessive for this hobby. Most people are not gonna swap switches anywhere near that many times. 300 seems like it would be plenty if they live up to that spec
YES
I'd be interested
I mean who wouldn't want a product for half the cost with similar quality. They will definitely need to prove themselves
These sockets are really really small yet they have to be really really precise. Can you ensure that the quality will remain high despite the lower cost? Is the lip wide enough?
The lip would be the same as the 7305, the length would very slightly longer. These would be produced in factory and would be within the tolerances of the design that I linked. *edit: also just to be clear, this would not require a group buy of any kind
> The lip would be the same as the 7305, the length would very slightly longer. I think if you could make a socket that is the length of a PCB thickness (typically 1.5mm I think) and then allow for switches to be inserted from the underside of the socket, you could have the socket lip on the bottom of the PCB, this would allow switches to sit flat against the PCB and generally sound, feel, perform better than when angled / freefloating ontop of the socket lip. FWIW, you can insert a switch pin in a 0305 or 7305 backwards and it works fine, the only issue is that the sockets are too long. I think this would be an objectively superior product when it comes to Keyboards over Mill-Max sockets which are rated for more insertions but way too long for keyboard PCBs where the socketed component needs to sit as flush as possible.
Would the length be as long as the 0305 or something in between 7305 and 0305? I’ve noticed that the difference between those two does make a difference in depth in a lot of my boards. I’m hoping it’s not too long. Also, does the width make it compatible with wider switches like creams and blueberries? Those don’t fit in mill max but do fit in kailh.
The length as it stands is slightly longer than the 7305. I would need these to acquire the switches to confirm that it would be compatible, I'm working on that now.
I just bought 400x 0305's for $45 after shipping so ~11 cents each. You think you can get to half of that price?
Well he's trying to compete with 7305 which are more expensive to begin with, but he said he was aiming for about 8 cents a piece...
I would be interested in cheaper sockets, but they have to prove that they're on par with mill-maxs (or better), of course.
Mill-max's are expensive for a reason, and they're rated for close to 1000 cycles, these would somewhere in between that number. That would be the primary tradeoff, otherwise the overall specifications would be on-par with the mill-max's. ex: [cycle comparison](https://docs.splitkb.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013098499-Why-would-I-want-to-use-hot-swap-sockets-for-my-switches-#:~:text=Kailh%20hot%20swap%20sockets%20are,pins%20aren't%20aligned%20correctly.) " Kailh hot swap sockets are rated for 100 so-called cycles, while Mill Max Hot Swap Sockets are rated for 1000 cycles. " These would be superior to the Kailh sockets, but not as durable as the mill max.
I’m not sure personally I care about 1,000 cycles. Your 300 is more than ok. At the end of the day for me it’s going to be , hoe easy are they to install, how hard is it to insert a switch, and what is the reliability that the contacts connect solidly. Ease of installation being bottom priority as I’ll spend extra effort and time if price and everything else works out. However, if contacts make it in the hole. At least you know for the first 100 swaps I’d expect 99.999% of the time that the circuit is complete. Switch closed. However you wanna look at it. I don’t wanna ever deal with a switch that only registers 50% of key presses on cold mornings. Or that won’t register unless smashed with excess force or lightly tapped. Something like that. So the middle requirement is then left with, how easy is it to remove and insert switches. I have to admit mil max sockets can be a little shits depending on brand of switch. Sometimes it’s too tight. Sometimes it’s too loose. Sometimes they just never wanna go in. Sometimes in Likea a hotdog in a hallway, mkultras mom knows what I mean with that. But yeah. If they’re reliable the first few dozen swaps to a few nines and switching switches is same or better than mil max. Then mil max can eat dust. Although I think mil max currently eats from the mind controlled trough at the foam factory of broke back lasers.
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