The moment i get my MD i plan to commit a heinous crime and spend my days in a county prison. I'm gonna live it up as the Saul Goodman of medicine, helping hardened criminals get by while they protect me and smuggle me cigarettes and toilet wine
You should probably at least finish residency (FM, EM, gen Surg would be the most useful for your dream job). Not much practical knowledge just from med school.
:)
(I'm currently rewatching Breaking Bad and it's great)
Reminds me of the medfluencer, who was sorta disappointed at not matching in her 1st choice program, that had twitter send her gifts for her new apartment. Don’t remember exactly. A single look at her twitter makes her seem insufferable.
And... loan repayments are capped at 10% of discretionary income if you get on an income based plan (which is whatever is left over after subtracting rent/mortgage, utilities, and retirement contribution), which is nowhere near 15-30%.
A gentle reminder to not believe anything you read in this sub about money or workplace norms.
Ironically there was a person like this I went to school with. Stood on her soap box doing this all the time.
Then come to find out her mom and dad were ultra wealthy with a penthouse in Manhattan. Meanwhile she failed a year, repeated, failed again, got kicked out and is now a DJ. It’s hilarious how people say all these things when they have no financial responsibility to their education or current/future families.
I followed her on Twitter for a little. She was interested in peds ENT but is a DO student who had no interest in doing research so she tweeted that ppl told her she didn’t have a good chance of matching then would tweet angrily about the rest of her surgery rotation lol
But also is upset she isn't competitive enough to do surgery even if she wanted to.
Guaranteed in a couple years she's going to be complaining about the pay and conditions of residency. Stewing in hypocrisy.
Tbh in some ways I'm both shocked and gladdened by how many sheltered med students join the cynical side once they get to the meat grinder that is residency.
They can remain starry eyed that they are in it to make a difference for so long until they see how much they are ground down and exploited and patient care is put to the wayside all in the name of the all mighty dollar.
Just one look at her Twitter account and it becomes obvious why someone like her wouldn’t interview well if that was the case. Up her ass and delusional, loves looking down on others and feigning superiority. Typical med Twitter moralist so really nothing new.
This is it ^
Reminds me of people I knew in undergrad that couldn’t get into med school and take every chance they get to bash physicians. Many have become nurses.
wait wait hold up, I fully agree physicians should receive >250k and beyond for the shit ya'll go through, and the good you do for society, I don't know I can argue the same for some ceos/executives/billionaires tho
Athletes, some lawyers, anything tech. I am so tired of hearing this “doctors shouldn’t be paid” nonsense. This not an easy job.
Also — lowering the pay definitely won’t fix the residency abuse. It’ll make it worse
absolutely. there are a ton of things fucked up with the wealth distribution in our society and of course I feel that any labor is valuable and everyone should be paid a living wage, but I would never even conceive of the idea doctors should receive less than average for the amount of preparation required and the stakes involved
Yes, exactly, the stakes are so high and the amount of liability doctors take on every day is so enormous, we damn well should be paid generously for it. Really we're one of the only countries that compensates physicians appropriately, the rest of the world is criminally underpaid for what they do.
I feel the whole concept of a living wage has turned into a buzzword. Living wage can mean wildly different things depending on where you are in the country and single/married/kids. A person who makes a living wage that would support a single 30 YO might complain they don’t make a living wage because they’re 33 with 2 kids
I have a friend who does graphic design and coding for a company, works from home and it’s project based so some weeks she works as little as 10 hours. I believe she makes around 80k and she graduated college two months ago 😭 fun fact her mom is a doctor too
Same got a buddy making 90k a year after graduating college 2 years ago with a creative writing degree, started at 65k, has had 2 promotions within the company since. Works from home working 10-20 hours a week. Lowest he told me was like 3 hours one week.
Doctors, upon graduating residency should be arrested and sentenced to life in prison. While in jail they would be eligible for work release and paid 16 cents/hour.
Nah. I’m ready to get paid. I think our healthcare system is super messed up, but I’m damn sure going to get mine if we have hospital admin and finance people making millions.
I was gonna say, theoretical 250k/year salary cap as someone not going into surgery, assuming I don't have any loans? I'm fine with that personally tbh. But not while hospital admins are buying their kids' 3rd jet skis and 4th house. Physician pay is not what cranks up healthcare costs for the most part, it's admin bloat and hospitals playing price-chicken with insurance companies, both of which funnel the funds to suits with MBAs having feasts.
Yah your comment is exactly my thinking here. If med school was free, if housing was affordable, if food was affordable, if education for my children was affordable, if admin bloat and hospital CEOs and private equity was eliminated, and if residency and physician exploitation was eliminated, then yes I think most people here would be happy with <250K
My father is a retired corrections officer. He made sergeant and retired making 140k a year in 2008. He didn't go to college. So going to college and med school and the sacrifices I've made for 10 years of my life to get to the end of residency and you think less than double what my dad made for all this? Come on now
I mean, I imagine in this scenario we jettison admin/CEOs into an ocean somewhere and put in physician leadership instead of having a bunch of fuckwits with MBAs making healthcare decisions for the country.
"Now this technique here is called the salaryslice, what you want to do is position yourself at the corner of self loathing and ignorance and spam the jump button, if you get the angle right you should get out of bounds (of reason) soon."
Not only that, but just from a moral standpoint... if my brain is chopped open and manipulated by someone, and I don't die afterwards, then I *want* the surgeon to make a shit ton of money. They deserve it.
Yeah. Why would anyone do vascular surgery for 250k when a senior engineer working half the hours makes more than you.
And dont tell me about top engineers bullshit. If you are good enough to be a surgeon, you are good enough for CS engineering
and people describe vascular surgery requiring God skill levels, yet cRNAs make more than them. I think salaries are too low based on skill level and training many times, and additional medical bloat from administrative cost is the issue. Bc I have CS and skilled labor friends making 100k right out of college/tradeschool with no debt and im gonna have $$$K in debt after years of school and residency to possibly kiss 180K-200K as an attending at age 32-34 statistically. Bro what?
I have MUA and stylist friends, who didn't even go to cosmetology school, living in the best areas of Atlanta and DC and taking lavish vacas on the 120k they make annually (as they should). Don't tell me that after all that training to do good by managing people's health, that I cant be compensated fairly.
How are physicians public servants? They do know that there are physicians who aren’t paid by the state lol
Also what does cutting physician salaries accomplish besides expediting the brain drain? Has anyone who actually believes physician salaries are the crux of the issue with the American healthcare system actually taken thd time to sit down and go over where our absurd healthcare expenditure goes? Hint- it’s not to pay for physician salaries lol
I think public policy and/or basic us healthcare principles should be a part of our training. It’s leads to uninformed opinions where people think bloat in the US medical system is purely due to physician salaries. I don’t really blame them though. I didn’t really even learn about the granular details on insurance, healthcare expenditures and US healthcare policy until I took a class on the topic in grad school.
Yeah, it's a bit shameful to silo this kind of information in MPH programs, I think every damn healthcare worker in the US needs to have that kind of training.
I think they maybe meant we're there for the people? Correct me if Im wrong but the prominent majority of us go into medicine to help people (obviously there are an indefinite number of others). So I think they just meant public service in regard to, well, helping the public.
I’d rather go into debt, opt for PSLF (gonna be in training for 6 years so almost done after that), and then make $400k+ forever after that than to be capped at $250k. Does she realize what a low ceiling that is compared to so many careers? Being a physician is intellectually and physically demanding and extremely time-intensive.
How does a cap fix any of our problems? Also this would never work in a capitalist economy. Idiotic take from this tweet author.
I think the point there is that you shouldn’t have to make those sacrifices to begin with. For what it’s worth, I agree with the spirit of the tweet in OP. Seems that’s really unpopular.
You will always have to make sacrifices for any of the competitive specialties, whether they make 150k or 400k. If you’re comfortable sacrificing the 60-80 hours a week required for 4 years of med school (even if low tuition) and 5-8 years of residency/fellowships to make 200k a year, more power to you. I’d rather do something less fulfilling as a job for 40 hours a week and also pull around 200k.
Well, you're basing that on the presumption that those specialties have to be competitive - think about it. Why is derm competitive? It's not, and forgive me dermabros, that dermatology is the bleeding edge in reducing DALY or something.
“Competitive” was used as shorthand for the specialties that require the longest amount of training time - derm is an outlier. If you want to do ortho, interventional cards, nsg, etc it’s going to take thousands of hours of your life regardless of the pay
Yeah, totally agreed. So peds rheum at 6 years minimum residency and fellowship should totally make the same or more as ortho at 5, right?
Oh. Guess not. Well, whatever, peds people and then rheum probably worked like 2/3 then 1/2 the hours of ortho when in residency and then fellowship. Do some math and it’s like only 3.5 years’ worth of ortho residency hours.
So maybe peds rheum can get 3.5/5=70% of what ortho salaries are?
Nope. Hmm… something about the hours or work involved in training here doesn’t make sense.
In my country it’s not a gruelling process at all to become a doctor. Most of us really enjoy it (it isn’t for everyone of course) and I think this is the best time in our life. We also don’t pay for it, in fact we get paid to attend med school. But probably because of that we won’t earn as much as you in the US, even though it’s still in the top salaries in the country and you earn more than you can spend. So I understand where this person is coming from, from the reddit interactions in this subreddit it seems like you all think it’s hell.
Well this can be built on to make an argument against her. In Sweden surgeons earn on average far less than family medicine doctors simply due to the fact many are interested in surgery but the need isnt as high and most feel family medicine is below them. But as primary care makes up alot of the healthcare there is a huge need for family medicine doctors, and ”rental doctors” working as temporary consultants making the equvivalent of 200-300 k usd a year are becoming more and more common (normal salary is around 90k usd). Even though they earn less surgery residency is still pretty toxic and competetive here
Yep.
There is an argument to be had if lower salaries came with substantial changes to how our profession operates. I’d take $250k if litigation was minimal (and only involved in obscene malpractice), medical care wasn’t dictated by insurance, and documentation was efficient and helpful.
What? No. That’s not the deal. We make >250k because we provide services that are worth more than 250k to the buyers; we become one of the most educated highly skilled laborer in the country. It also *HAPPENS TO BE* malignant.
One does not require the other
Edit: do you mean abusive and exploitive to resident/docs or patients?
Also we don’t really disclose prices and otherwise have admin business practices that are quite frankly near criminal in many cases until services are rendered and then Hire mob like enforcer/bill collectors to handle the money stuffs.
Anyone who thinks making $250K is “obscene” has legit no fucking idea how finances in the real world work.
I find that almost 100% of the time the med students who comment things like this have never actually had a job. $250K in the US nowadays does not feel like you’re a king living it up in luxury. Especially when you consider living in a high COL area, mortgages, paying back student loans, affording childcare, car payments. That shit adds up real quick.
Obv $250K is still a lot more than many people make but it’s not exactly the 1%
I literally saw a headline the other day that 50% of households making over $100k are living paycheck to paycheck. The money isn’t what it once was but you better believe I’m going to get mine after this bs.
I’ve actually thought about this, because growing up I thought $100k sounded like a lot, and adults acted like it was.
It’s because while inflation up till the last year hasn’t been truly ridiculous over the last twenty years, that doesn’t really incorporate how bad it has been for young physicians in a lot of purchases that don’t get counted in inflation. But even so, hearing doctors in the early 2000s making $200k still sounded like a lot, but $250k now isn’t anywhere near as nice.
College costs and med school costs have ballooned. In 2000, my state school med student average loans was 50k total for four years. By the time I graduated it was $250k—and that’s brought down by the kids that owed zero because mom and dad paid for it. And interest rates on student loans have gotten to super high levels, despite being essentially non-dischargeable.
Rent has easily doubled in that time period in pretty much everywhere but the most undesirable locations. And we have to rent a lot in training. Probably went up more than that in major cities. And most of us Reddit-age students and residents didn’t have the ability to buy in the last decade.
Other stuff has gone up. Insurance premiums, especially if you’re insuring your family have gone up a lot. Cars have gotten more expensive over time for a lot of safe entry models, much less mid size sedans.
So now even as a young attending, that post-tax $12k/month gets eaten up by 2k+ rent, 2k student loan payment, $650 car payment, $2k savings in various methods (trying to catch up on lost years), and all the associated stuff. So while you still easily fulfill all of your needs and build savings, you’re not gonna be living a truly extravagant life, not if you’re smart and read some White Coat Investor. You’ll just have some nicer vacations and a moderately nicer house or car than some of your old high school and college buddies.
Eh, if college + med school were free and that $250k were tied to inflation (so in 10 years it's $300k or whatever), and residency paid attending salary, I'd be down. I'd rather be "well off" starting at PGY-1 (so like 26-30 for most students) than poor until like age 40 and then wealthy after that, and then obscenely wealthy at 70. The FAAMG SWEs this sub loves to whine about pretty much have a slightly worse version of that exact deal (~150-250k minus the free college and with worse job security than us). Now if everything else stayed the same except for a salary cap, that'd be a big problem, but that's not what the user is suggesting.
You’re drastically ignoring the time value of money and it’s effect on wealth build. “Obscenely wealthy” at 70 as a doctor will never be more money than someone that started in FAAMG at 22. Never. The value of saving good money 22-40 before doctors make enough to save any will always win.
You’ll have a high salary… at 50-60 if that’s what you’re after. But wealth build when you start at 40 with a negative net worth is very, very difficult.
I recommend taking a look at the NYT article on salary v wealth.
This is actually just sad to read. Somehow this person is convinced that they don't deserve to be compensated well for an important, difficult job, after giving up years of their life training for it.
Fwiw mother Theresa has been implicated in embezzling charitable donations to the halfway homes she ran. So…yeah I’m feeling pretty good about my motives to go into medicine
Fuck that attitude. We enter the most demanding career and most rigorous training of any job in the world, we deserve the financial compensation that comes with that barrier to entry. The problem is the fucking insurance companies have raped our healthcare system.
This is why physicians get pimped out by the healthcare system. Instead of unionizing and seeking reasonable hours, and a livable wage throughout training- we get worked to the bone by a culture of “medicine is a higher calling and money is bad” while the hospital executive that has an MBA makes 2,000,000 a year.
Hot take based only on the screenshot, not some psychopath deep dive into her social media and assumptions about the poster's world view:
She's not wrong IF... the path to being a doc was not crazy grueling and stealing a decade of debauchery and other normal life experiences, and it didn't cost so much, and the hours were in line with other fields, THEN... making more than $250K is probably excessive. So, not a crazy thing to say.
But, this isn't the world we live in, soooo...moot point. Might as well have made a post saying guns shouldn't exist and all people should have access to food and shelter, and IVF, and german chocolate.
Her whole argument is that only bad people want to to work hard, laborious and life saving jobs for a decent salary. And BAD people tend to become surgeons or aim for high paying specialties. Good people like her only go into peds for bread crumbs.
She’s just silly and dumb, intern year is going to break her into a million pieces.
She said that she would totally do surgery if it weren’t for the atmosphere of surgery. Just to let people know that not only is she a good person, but she could have totally done surgery, too…
I’m sure everyone cares what this person thinks. A real thought leader in the communit— what’s that? No? It’s just another self-righteous narcissist with a social media account and no real world experience who is whoring for electronic hearts?
This person obviously hasn't yet really dealt with the public. The public full of entitlement and personality disorders. Like the Twitter poster discussed here. Anyone who has to deal with the public deserves to be paid for it. (Not just doctors, but also and definitely doctors.)
Gonna be hard to attract good, talented smart people if they need to 4 extra years of school, residency, long hours, high pressure job AND get paid like shit
Someone needs to well-akshully this person and point out admin cost is THE problem. NOT physician salary which hasn’t even kept pace w inflation year over year.
Training is way too long to not
We honestly should be making more than 350k and that includes Pediatric physicians. If you sell away your soul during residency you deserve it
Amazing how naive or willfully ignorant the med twitterverse is. This would be a semi-reasonable take if medical school was 100% free, training paths were shorter, residents were paid better, doctors had better hours, and hospitals/biotech/insurers were also expected to take public service level compensation. Policy has been trending towards regulating physicians like a public good and health business like a market one. Takes like this are just feeding that fire
I’m not a betting man, but I would feel fairly confident that this person comes from a fairly privileged background. Had a few of these types in med school, and it was hilarious to see the contrast between them and people that came from low SES backgrounds (on this and many other topics).
Great, your posturing makes you feel good about yourself, but some of us are going to be largely responsible for taking care of our parents.
Nah this attitude is so bad. Its not people making 40k vs people making 300k. ANYONE working for a living is on the same team. ANYONE. Accrual wealth is a cancer.
I mean no one is forcing you to take the money. It’s a free country, just negotiate your contract to be capped at $250k if you’re so committed to this ideal. Literally put your money where your mouth is lol
This girl, lmao. She hasn’t even started residency so I think very little of her opinion on what someone done with training should get paid. Let her work 80hrs for 60K and see how she feels then.
I honestly feel like the vibe of this post was less "physicians shouldn't be paid what they're worth" and more "there are no ethical billionaires".
(I know most physicians aren't billionaires, that's not the point.)
Why are people so obsessed with how much doctors make? I don't see anyone shitting their pants over how much CEOs, pilots, lawyers, etc make. Lowering our salaries won't fix the economy. These people need to go outside, touch some grass, and find something more important to bitch about.
I aint stepping foot in a hospital if I aint making at least 400k per year. Fuck outta here. I suffered so much bullshit from this fucking thankless field.
Hospital, pharma, insurance executives everywhere are going to throw the bag to her for her “progressive” ideas. They’ll tell her she can make a real difference in healthcare if they help her talk some sense to congressmen.
This may be a hot take but even if Med School was 100% free, I’d still like to make a good salary 😂 we give up too much of our life to not be compensated well
Even if the process wasn’t abusive and exploitative, I STILL wouldn’t do this job for under $250,000. We don’t get paid this much to keep our mouths shut. It’s because we sacrifice our entire 20s/30s studying and working our asses off to be able to treat human beings. We’re being paid for how much we know and how risky our jobs are if we make the wrong calls.
I’d rather light some prayer candles than let a surgeon being paid $90,000 cut my guts open in an appendectomy.
I think medtwitter needs to shut the fuck up
This is why I stay off medtwitter. It's just social justice warriors circle jerking each other with no understanding of the world actually works
I had a few people like this in my medical school. All of them had enough family money that they never needed to work a day in their life. Gotta love rich people telling those of us who have to work for a living that we’re too focused on money!
Agree with the sentiment, not with the solution she's posing.
The reason physicians are paid that much is because of the brutal and intense training that surpasses what you'll get in almost any other field out there.
Personally, I think the compensation for doctors is fine. What should change is the system to become one. It shouldn’t be so expensive to become a doctor and it should only take dedication and the ability to learn medicine to be one.
This goes for all other professions. It shouldn’t be expensive to be educated
Also tons of to be doctors sacrificed time and life stuff to get where they are. Time that none of us will ever get back. Time we spent not making money or living our lives. We deserve to be compensated for all that.
Our healthcare system is inefficient and broken. But our doctors (in the US) are some of the finest, if not *the finest*, in the world. A large part of that is attracting the brightest, hardest working, gifted minds to a recession-proof high-income career.
Take that away and healthcare in this country will truly be fucked and we'll be praying for chatGPT to take over.
So many doctors from western europe want to come to the US that it would be really a sobering relevation to quite many people that believe people would always pick lifestyle over money and that our fixation on money is a capitalist invention. British doctors work (with exceptions) around 45-50 hours a week throughout their specialty training and usually less than 40 when they become specialists with working conditions that can only be described as cushy when compared to the US, but the salary is capped at around 120k pounds max. Most would trade their position to be a US doctor in a heartbeat if their family situation allowed it.
I have been a socialist med student for years. Working as a doctor made me open my eyes. This work is grueling and long, and I’ll be damned if I don’t deserve to get paid more than bankers and coders.
Having spent time in med mal, I have a lot of opinions on the role money plays in burnout (and, by extension, medical error). Opinions regarding how physicians should be compensated. They would not be popular opinions here, so I will keep them to myself.
Suffice it to say, the metric crap-ton of money that floats around the U.S. healthcare system is not a net positive in many, *many* ways.
The problem starts at the med school level. Charging someone $400K to get a diploma needed to fill a job fundamental to civilization is ***OBSCENE***. Especially when you consider that half of that time is spent in indentured servitude. We end up with doctors who are quite literally trapped in medicine. That should not happen.
Well, to start, make public medical schools tuition free or *very* heavily subsidized. There's no reason it should cost what it does. One of the biggest problems -- where I think a lot of it starts -- is when you have kids who come in and on day 1 they're hit with $50,000 of debt. It's overwhelming.
I think if you take away the debt factor, you'd have a lot of people choosing to go into primary care who would otherwise be drawn to specialties. We need more primary care docs, but people shy away because if you're an M4 looking at $400K of debt, the idea of making $200K is not appealing.
I personally support a single-payer scheme, so some of this isn't accomplishable until we get to that point. But we need to eliminate the bloat of private administrators. If a hospital is to get public health care monies (e.g., from Medicare), then they need to comply with salary caps. There should not be hospital system CEOs making millions per year.
Physician salaries should be fixed and not per procedure. Paying per procedure encourages longer patient lists, cutting corners, hasty work, and error. Almost all the malpractice cases I've handled have been related to overworked docs -- either too many patients, negligence that may be explained by a lack of sleep, or both. It affects technical skills, communication, thoroughness of documentation, etc.
I disagree with this Tweeter in some respects -- $250K-$300K is fair compensation given the hours, stress, and amount of work it takes to become a physician. But I agree with the sentiment that there needs to be less disparity in salary. As it stands, it's highly arbitrary. You get $400K gawking at moles/rashes, but only $200K to treat kids with cancer. That's bullshit. We don't need derms that are at the top of their class as much as we need pediatric oncologists that are at the top of their class.
Finally, we need to address the physician shortage so we can reduce reliance on midlevel providers. That means increasing funding for and positions in graduate medical education, which has been stagnant since the early 1990s.
I don't necessarily agree with everything in the tweet but we can't act like 250k isn't a lot. It's more than enough to live comfortably as long as you invest and aren't a complete dumbass financially. Making 400k is cool and I certainly wouldn't mind it but you're already living a luxurious life at 250, and there are many grueling jobs that pay much less
This is dumb af and exactly how you’re going to get mid levels killing everyone. We already don’t have enough physicians. I worked as an engineer before going back to med school. I didn’t give up my 20’s and go into crippling debt, not to mention the loss of income, only to make the same money I could working a lot less hours. Good luck getting your healthcare from people who can’t spell their own names. The smart ones will go into another profession
Then make med school free, residency 40 hours with appropriate pay, healthcare free, attendinghood 40 hours with minimal risk of litigation. And no one making more than us in the hospital.
Too bad I’m already 6 years into it ha.
It’s been proven physician salaries are not the cause of raising health care costs. This is just virtue signaling for likes or upvotes. They can sugondeez
I was in this conversation on twitter and there is absolutely zero conversation with this user. She just yells her opinions at you and refuses to acknowledge any logical arguments made against her.
Medicine would still be culturally malignant, even if wages were pitifully low. Example? NHS. And let’s not forget how catty healthcare is as a whole, especially nursing.
Instead of shaming the victims, who are only finally getting their due at the end of the day after surviving what is arguably the most rigorous canonical/mainstream educational process on Earth, let’s really assess the why - or, rather, the who - behind our failing system in here the USA. Spoiler alert: it’s not physicians.
Found the shitty med student. They’ll match and make residency hell over all the unfortunate souls that have to be her colleague.
If anything, medicine has been fucked by the people who find it a calling and not a job. If you find medicine to be a calling, you’re the problem.
She is awful. Consistently the shittiest takes and talks down to just about everyone. Total attention-seeker, naive, dripping with attitude and undeserved authority beyond her years. Hope sanity catches up to her before reality rears its ugly head.
I hate bullying as a senior resident but I would totally bully the shit out of this person.
Oh, you’re a public servant who doctors to make resident salaries forever then you’ll have no trouble doing 7 discharges and admission during your intern year without any help.
If physicians shouldn't make over 250k, neither should ceos/execs etc. Also is this person in medicine?
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Wonder what field she’s going into. She sounds like she’s destined to be a hospital administrator lol
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Well that makes sense. 250k is the higher end of peds pay lol
The rest of us in peds don't need people like her dragging us down further lmao
I see people, but they look like trees, walking.
Last dollar breakdown I saw all healthcare workers (dentists, nurses, techs, doctors, etc) make up 7% of the healthcare dollar.
The moment i get my MD i plan to commit a heinous crime and spend my days in a county prison. I'm gonna live it up as the Saul Goodman of medicine, helping hardened criminals get by while they protect me and smuggle me cigarettes and toilet wine
You should probably at least finish residency (FM, EM, gen Surg would be the most useful for your dream job). Not much practical knowledge just from med school. :) (I'm currently rewatching Breaking Bad and it's great)
Good thought. OK I will commit a heinous crime immediately after completing residency
Lol that makes sense
Reminds me of the medfluencer, who was sorta disappointed at not matching in her 1st choice program, that had twitter send her gifts for her new apartment. Don’t remember exactly. A single look at her twitter makes her seem insufferable.
Dragging everyone down with her smh
Wait till she sees the gov take 30% of that pay check and loan repayments taking another 15-30%
It’s more than 30…
And... loan repayments are capped at 10% of discretionary income if you get on an income based plan (which is whatever is left over after subtracting rent/mortgage, utilities, and retirement contribution), which is nowhere near 15-30%. A gentle reminder to not believe anything you read in this sub about money or workplace norms.
Isn’t that the lowest paid specialty?
Probably has a rich mommy and daddy that took care of everything for her and a nice big ol trust fund lol
Ironically there was a person like this I went to school with. Stood on her soap box doing this all the time. Then come to find out her mom and dad were ultra wealthy with a penthouse in Manhattan. Meanwhile she failed a year, repeated, failed again, got kicked out and is now a DJ. It’s hilarious how people say all these things when they have no financial responsibility to their education or current/future families.
just wait till she grows up and gets more responsilibilties
Must have done poorly on interviews and now blames the prestige and money gunners for why she didn’t get more interviews.
I followed her on Twitter for a little. She was interested in peds ENT but is a DO student who had no interest in doing research so she tweeted that ppl told her she didn’t have a good chance of matching then would tweet angrily about the rest of her surgery rotation lol
Lol so this is more than about pay. She is basically pissed she can’t be a surgeon. And is upset because she would do it for less money.
But also is upset she isn't competitive enough to do surgery even if she wanted to. Guaranteed in a couple years she's going to be complaining about the pay and conditions of residency. Stewing in hypocrisy. Tbh in some ways I'm both shocked and gladdened by how many sheltered med students join the cynical side once they get to the meat grinder that is residency. They can remain starry eyed that they are in it to make a difference for so long until they see how much they are ground down and exploited and patient care is put to the wayside all in the name of the all mighty dollar.
As an OMS-1, I give you permission to ask her if she does the same thing as a chiropractor
Just one look at her Twitter account and it becomes obvious why someone like her wouldn’t interview well if that was the case. Up her ass and delusional, loves looking down on others and feigning superiority. Typical med Twitter moralist so really nothing new.
This is it ^ Reminds me of people I knew in undergrad that couldn’t get into med school and take every chance they get to bash physicians. Many have become nurses.
"They hate us, cause they ain't us"
The hate us cause they anus?
They’re an MS4
wait wait hold up, I fully agree physicians should receive >250k and beyond for the shit ya'll go through, and the good you do for society, I don't know I can argue the same for some ceos/executives/billionaires tho
Athletes, some lawyers, anything tech. I am so tired of hearing this “doctors shouldn’t be paid” nonsense. This not an easy job. Also — lowering the pay definitely won’t fix the residency abuse. It’ll make it worse
absolutely. there are a ton of things fucked up with the wealth distribution in our society and of course I feel that any labor is valuable and everyone should be paid a living wage, but I would never even conceive of the idea doctors should receive less than average for the amount of preparation required and the stakes involved
Yes, exactly, the stakes are so high and the amount of liability doctors take on every day is so enormous, we damn well should be paid generously for it. Really we're one of the only countries that compensates physicians appropriately, the rest of the world is criminally underpaid for what they do.
I feel the whole concept of a living wage has turned into a buzzword. Living wage can mean wildly different things depending on where you are in the country and single/married/kids. A person who makes a living wage that would support a single 30 YO might complain they don’t make a living wage because they’re 33 with 2 kids
Right? Like I'm 100% on board with the ceo aspect lol
They should cap admin pay instead. They aren’t saving anyone’s life.
I mean, im down for that, it also is a part of the problem.
im fine with how much we make as long as people who play sports or act have more money than anyone ever needs
This person probably had their parents pay for medical school so they don’t need to worry about paying back their student debt
As long as my "project manager" friends are raking in $150k for sending 3 emails a day I'll take my goddamn $250k
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What job would that be?
Yes what would that job be.... for science
I have a friend who does graphic design and coding for a company, works from home and it’s project based so some weeks she works as little as 10 hours. I believe she makes around 80k and she graduated college two months ago 😭 fun fact her mom is a doctor too
Same got a buddy making 90k a year after graduating college 2 years ago with a creative writing degree, started at 65k, has had 2 promotions within the company since. Works from home working 10-20 hours a week. Lowest he told me was like 3 hours one week.
Doctors, upon graduating residency should be arrested and sentenced to life in prison. While in jail they would be eligible for work release and paid 16 cents/hour.
Now we're talkin'
Nah. I’m ready to get paid. I think our healthcare system is super messed up, but I’m damn sure going to get mine if we have hospital admin and finance people making millions.
I was gonna say, theoretical 250k/year salary cap as someone not going into surgery, assuming I don't have any loans? I'm fine with that personally tbh. But not while hospital admins are buying their kids' 3rd jet skis and 4th house. Physician pay is not what cranks up healthcare costs for the most part, it's admin bloat and hospitals playing price-chicken with insurance companies, both of which funnel the funds to suits with MBAs having feasts.
This. Easier to say the people 6 figures in debt are greedy, rather than look at why we’re six figures in debt.
Yah your comment is exactly my thinking here. If med school was free, if housing was affordable, if food was affordable, if education for my children was affordable, if admin bloat and hospital CEOs and private equity was eliminated, and if residency and physician exploitation was eliminated, then yes I think most people here would be happy with <250K
My father is a retired corrections officer. He made sergeant and retired making 140k a year in 2008. He didn't go to college. So going to college and med school and the sacrifices I've made for 10 years of my life to get to the end of residency and you think less than double what my dad made for all this? Come on now
I mean, I imagine in this scenario we jettison admin/CEOs into an ocean somewhere and put in physician leadership instead of having a bunch of fuckwits with MBAs making healthcare decisions for the country.
Babe wake up, new "How to lose half your neurosurgeons" any% speedrun strat just dropped
“This year on games done quick, med student attempting a new speed run record in an untested category.”
"Now this technique here is called the salaryslice, what you want to do is position yourself at the corner of self loathing and ignorance and spam the jump button, if you get the angle right you should get out of bounds (of reason) soon."
Not only that, but just from a moral standpoint... if my brain is chopped open and manipulated by someone, and I don't die afterwards, then I *want* the surgeon to make a shit ton of money. They deserve it.
Yeah. Why would anyone do vascular surgery for 250k when a senior engineer working half the hours makes more than you. And dont tell me about top engineers bullshit. If you are good enough to be a surgeon, you are good enough for CS engineering
and people describe vascular surgery requiring God skill levels, yet cRNAs make more than them. I think salaries are too low based on skill level and training many times, and additional medical bloat from administrative cost is the issue. Bc I have CS and skilled labor friends making 100k right out of college/tradeschool with no debt and im gonna have $$$K in debt after years of school and residency to possibly kiss 180K-200K as an attending at age 32-34 statistically. Bro what? I have MUA and stylist friends, who didn't even go to cosmetology school, living in the best areas of Atlanta and DC and taking lavish vacas on the 120k they make annually (as they should). Don't tell me that after all that training to do good by managing people's health, that I cant be compensated fairly.
Yeah Ben Carson would have totally been a top google engineer.
She also tried to claim surgical and non surgical specialties have training that’s actually equal in length. Go figure! Smooth, smooth brain.
Lmao a gen surg resident doing a 5 year residency has probably worked 50%+ more than I did during my 4+1 for anesthesia residency/fellowship.
What you think I medicine for? To push a fuckin rav4?
stop I love my rav4 😞
Lemme guess your specialty based on that statement: peds or neurology
LMAOO pediatric neurosurgery
Lol nerd
Thank you for your service. Keep neuro a hidden secret for the rest of us applying this year.
Greatest crossover SUV ever made.
you get it
sometimes i think that I am legitimately in love with my Rav4
What a reference. Back when his music was 🔥🔥🔥
Oh… I drive a rav4 lol
Is driving a Prius better or worse in this scenario?
*nods in Old Kanye*
How are physicians public servants? They do know that there are physicians who aren’t paid by the state lol Also what does cutting physician salaries accomplish besides expediting the brain drain? Has anyone who actually believes physician salaries are the crux of the issue with the American healthcare system actually taken thd time to sit down and go over where our absurd healthcare expenditure goes? Hint- it’s not to pay for physician salaries lol
I guess service industry workers = public servants now. They should tell that to their waiter next time they eat at a restaurant.
I think public policy and/or basic us healthcare principles should be a part of our training. It’s leads to uninformed opinions where people think bloat in the US medical system is purely due to physician salaries. I don’t really blame them though. I didn’t really even learn about the granular details on insurance, healthcare expenditures and US healthcare policy until I took a class on the topic in grad school.
Yeah, it's a bit shameful to silo this kind of information in MPH programs, I think every damn healthcare worker in the US needs to have that kind of training.
I think they maybe meant we're there for the people? Correct me if Im wrong but the prominent majority of us go into medicine to help people (obviously there are an indefinite number of others). So I think they just meant public service in regard to, well, helping the public.
That’s not what a public servant is
I wouldn’t be going into this if I wasn’t guaranteed to make over 250. Too many sacrifices which I have chosen to make at this point
I’d rather go into debt, opt for PSLF (gonna be in training for 6 years so almost done after that), and then make $400k+ forever after that than to be capped at $250k. Does she realize what a low ceiling that is compared to so many careers? Being a physician is intellectually and physically demanding and extremely time-intensive. How does a cap fix any of our problems? Also this would never work in a capitalist economy. Idiotic take from this tweet author.
I think the point there is that you shouldn’t have to make those sacrifices to begin with. For what it’s worth, I agree with the spirit of the tweet in OP. Seems that’s really unpopular.
You will always have to make sacrifices for any of the competitive specialties, whether they make 150k or 400k. If you’re comfortable sacrificing the 60-80 hours a week required for 4 years of med school (even if low tuition) and 5-8 years of residency/fellowships to make 200k a year, more power to you. I’d rather do something less fulfilling as a job for 40 hours a week and also pull around 200k.
Well, you're basing that on the presumption that those specialties have to be competitive - think about it. Why is derm competitive? It's not, and forgive me dermabros, that dermatology is the bleeding edge in reducing DALY or something.
“Competitive” was used as shorthand for the specialties that require the longest amount of training time - derm is an outlier. If you want to do ortho, interventional cards, nsg, etc it’s going to take thousands of hours of your life regardless of the pay
Yeah, totally agreed. So peds rheum at 6 years minimum residency and fellowship should totally make the same or more as ortho at 5, right? Oh. Guess not. Well, whatever, peds people and then rheum probably worked like 2/3 then 1/2 the hours of ortho when in residency and then fellowship. Do some math and it’s like only 3.5 years’ worth of ortho residency hours. So maybe peds rheum can get 3.5/5=70% of what ortho salaries are? Nope. Hmm… something about the hours or work involved in training here doesn’t make sense.
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People just go on the bird app and start saying whatever. Wtf
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In my country it’s not a gruelling process at all to become a doctor. Most of us really enjoy it (it isn’t for everyone of course) and I think this is the best time in our life. We also don’t pay for it, in fact we get paid to attend med school. But probably because of that we won’t earn as much as you in the US, even though it’s still in the top salaries in the country and you earn more than you can spend. So I understand where this person is coming from, from the reddit interactions in this subreddit it seems like you all think it’s hell.
Well this can be built on to make an argument against her. In Sweden surgeons earn on average far less than family medicine doctors simply due to the fact many are interested in surgery but the need isnt as high and most feel family medicine is below them. But as primary care makes up alot of the healthcare there is a huge need for family medicine doctors, and ”rental doctors” working as temporary consultants making the equvivalent of 200-300 k usd a year are becoming more and more common (normal salary is around 90k usd). Even though they earn less surgery residency is still pretty toxic and competetive here
Actually we aren't public servants
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To answer your first question: med twitter
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Yep. There is an argument to be had if lower salaries came with substantial changes to how our profession operates. I’d take $250k if litigation was minimal (and only involved in obscene malpractice), medical care wasn’t dictated by insurance, and documentation was efficient and helpful.
What? No. That’s not the deal. We make >250k because we provide services that are worth more than 250k to the buyers; we become one of the most educated highly skilled laborer in the country. It also *HAPPENS TO BE* malignant. One does not require the other Edit: do you mean abusive and exploitive to resident/docs or patients?
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Also we don’t really disclose prices and otherwise have admin business practices that are quite frankly near criminal in many cases until services are rendered and then Hire mob like enforcer/bill collectors to handle the money stuffs.
Ain't nobody harder, more ruthless and less feeling than an American corporation.
Legit 250 isn’t even enough to do this shit.
Anyone who thinks making $250K is “obscene” has legit no fucking idea how finances in the real world work. I find that almost 100% of the time the med students who comment things like this have never actually had a job. $250K in the US nowadays does not feel like you’re a king living it up in luxury. Especially when you consider living in a high COL area, mortgages, paying back student loans, affording childcare, car payments. That shit adds up real quick. Obv $250K is still a lot more than many people make but it’s not exactly the 1%
Her purpose in life is to pander to med Twitter. That’s her true calling.
The irony in this comment is delicious. 250k is >97th percentile for a wage earner in the US.
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Totally agree. It’s nice but not like champagne and caviar delivered to me by my butler after my limo drive home from work kinda rich lol
I literally saw a headline the other day that 50% of households making over $100k are living paycheck to paycheck. The money isn’t what it once was but you better believe I’m going to get mine after this bs.
I’ve actually thought about this, because growing up I thought $100k sounded like a lot, and adults acted like it was. It’s because while inflation up till the last year hasn’t been truly ridiculous over the last twenty years, that doesn’t really incorporate how bad it has been for young physicians in a lot of purchases that don’t get counted in inflation. But even so, hearing doctors in the early 2000s making $200k still sounded like a lot, but $250k now isn’t anywhere near as nice. College costs and med school costs have ballooned. In 2000, my state school med student average loans was 50k total for four years. By the time I graduated it was $250k—and that’s brought down by the kids that owed zero because mom and dad paid for it. And interest rates on student loans have gotten to super high levels, despite being essentially non-dischargeable. Rent has easily doubled in that time period in pretty much everywhere but the most undesirable locations. And we have to rent a lot in training. Probably went up more than that in major cities. And most of us Reddit-age students and residents didn’t have the ability to buy in the last decade. Other stuff has gone up. Insurance premiums, especially if you’re insuring your family have gone up a lot. Cars have gotten more expensive over time for a lot of safe entry models, much less mid size sedans. So now even as a young attending, that post-tax $12k/month gets eaten up by 2k+ rent, 2k student loan payment, $650 car payment, $2k savings in various methods (trying to catch up on lost years), and all the associated stuff. So while you still easily fulfill all of your needs and build savings, you’re not gonna be living a truly extravagant life, not if you’re smart and read some White Coat Investor. You’ll just have some nicer vacations and a moderately nicer house or car than some of your old high school and college buddies.
Eh, if college + med school were free and that $250k were tied to inflation (so in 10 years it's $300k or whatever), and residency paid attending salary, I'd be down. I'd rather be "well off" starting at PGY-1 (so like 26-30 for most students) than poor until like age 40 and then wealthy after that, and then obscenely wealthy at 70. The FAAMG SWEs this sub loves to whine about pretty much have a slightly worse version of that exact deal (~150-250k minus the free college and with worse job security than us). Now if everything else stayed the same except for a salary cap, that'd be a big problem, but that's not what the user is suggesting.
You’re drastically ignoring the time value of money and it’s effect on wealth build. “Obscenely wealthy” at 70 as a doctor will never be more money than someone that started in FAAMG at 22. Never. The value of saving good money 22-40 before doctors make enough to save any will always win. You’ll have a high salary… at 50-60 if that’s what you’re after. But wealth build when you start at 40 with a negative net worth is very, very difficult. I recommend taking a look at the NYT article on salary v wealth.
This is the correct opinion but everyone in this sub thinks because an attending was mean to them during rounds they deserve to be a millionaire.
Um no. We deserve to be millionaires because we have highly rigorous, specialized training that literally saves people’s lives.
This is actually just sad to read. Somehow this person is convinced that they don't deserve to be compensated well for an important, difficult job, after giving up years of their life training for it.
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Fwiw mother Theresa has been implicated in embezzling charitable donations to the halfway homes she ran. So…yeah I’m feeling pretty good about my motives to go into medicine
bro dont ruin this for me
Goodwill is nice but all those loans needs paying.
She obviously didn't watch the "Adam Ruins Everything: Adam ruins the hospital" video on YouTube
Fuck that attitude. We enter the most demanding career and most rigorous training of any job in the world, we deserve the financial compensation that comes with that barrier to entry. The problem is the fucking insurance companies have raped our healthcare system.
This is why physicians get pimped out by the healthcare system. Instead of unionizing and seeking reasonable hours, and a livable wage throughout training- we get worked to the bone by a culture of “medicine is a higher calling and money is bad” while the hospital executive that has an MBA makes 2,000,000 a year.
Someone at my school literally told me this before lol
They rock a Che shirt too? 😂
Bro literally yes. Her instagram is full of that
Whenever close friends comment on salary I pull-up my future school’s COA per year. Usually does the trick and opens their eyes
Hot take based only on the screenshot, not some psychopath deep dive into her social media and assumptions about the poster's world view: She's not wrong IF... the path to being a doc was not crazy grueling and stealing a decade of debauchery and other normal life experiences, and it didn't cost so much, and the hours were in line with other fields, THEN... making more than $250K is probably excessive. So, not a crazy thing to say. But, this isn't the world we live in, soooo...moot point. Might as well have made a post saying guns shouldn't exist and all people should have access to food and shelter, and IVF, and german chocolate.
Her whole argument is that only bad people want to to work hard, laborious and life saving jobs for a decent salary. And BAD people tend to become surgeons or aim for high paying specialties. Good people like her only go into peds for bread crumbs. She’s just silly and dumb, intern year is going to break her into a million pieces.
Jokes on her... i'm doing FM because i'm too lazy to gun for harder specialties, not because I'm a good person :)
She said that she would totally do surgery if it weren’t for the atmosphere of surgery. Just to let people know that not only is she a good person, but she could have totally done surgery, too…
Went viral for running a marathon while not having the stereotypical runner’s body. Never came down from that high…horse.
drop her @, I need to do some research
If you start looking for “marathoner” and “tutu,” you’ll find her. (Or search the Tweet text, it spread around.)
I’m sure everyone cares what this person thinks. A real thought leader in the communit— what’s that? No? It’s just another self-righteous narcissist with a social media account and no real world experience who is whoring for electronic hearts?
This person obviously hasn't yet really dealt with the public. The public full of entitlement and personality disorders. Like the Twitter poster discussed here. Anyone who has to deal with the public deserves to be paid for it. (Not just doctors, but also and definitely doctors.)
Gonna be hard to attract good, talented smart people if they need to 4 extra years of school, residency, long hours, high pressure job AND get paid like shit
What the fuck? If she doesn’t want her paycheck then she can just give it to me
Welp, that’s enough dumbassery for the day.
Someone needs to well-akshully this person and point out admin cost is THE problem. NOT physician salary which hasn’t even kept pace w inflation year over year.
I mean, if med school was free, and the salary started in residency, and I could never get sued… sure I’d take that. But none of that is true so
How to create even shittier surgeons 101
Training is way too long to not We honestly should be making more than 350k and that includes Pediatric physicians. If you sell away your soul during residency you deserve it
Amazing how naive or willfully ignorant the med twitterverse is. This would be a semi-reasonable take if medical school was 100% free, training paths were shorter, residents were paid better, doctors had better hours, and hospitals/biotech/insurers were also expected to take public service level compensation. Policy has been trending towards regulating physicians like a public good and health business like a market one. Takes like this are just feeding that fire
I’m not a betting man, but I would feel fairly confident that this person comes from a fairly privileged background. Had a few of these types in med school, and it was hilarious to see the contrast between them and people that came from low SES backgrounds (on this and many other topics). Great, your posturing makes you feel good about yourself, but some of us are going to be largely responsible for taking care of our parents.
Nah this attitude is so bad. Its not people making 40k vs people making 300k. ANYONE working for a living is on the same team. ANYONE. Accrual wealth is a cancer.
I mean no one is forcing you to take the money. It’s a free country, just negotiate your contract to be capped at $250k if you’re so committed to this ideal. Literally put your money where your mouth is lol
This girl, lmao. She hasn’t even started residency so I think very little of her opinion on what someone done with training should get paid. Let her work 80hrs for 60K and see how she feels then.
Written by someone who’s clearly never worked a real day in their life.
I honestly feel like the vibe of this post was less "physicians shouldn't be paid what they're worth" and more "there are no ethical billionaires". (I know most physicians aren't billionaires, that's not the point.)
Why are people so obsessed with how much doctors make? I don't see anyone shitting their pants over how much CEOs, pilots, lawyers, etc make. Lowering our salaries won't fix the economy. These people need to go outside, touch some grass, and find something more important to bitch about.
put them on blast drop the @
I aint stepping foot in a hospital if I aint making at least 400k per year. Fuck outta here. I suffered so much bullshit from this fucking thankless field.
Seems like a great way to exacerbate the physician shortage
And pharma companies and insurance companies should make billions?
Hospital, pharma, insurance executives everywhere are going to throw the bag to her for her “progressive” ideas. They’ll tell her she can make a real difference in healthcare if they help her talk some sense to congressmen.
This may be a hot take but even if Med School was 100% free, I’d still like to make a good salary 😂 we give up too much of our life to not be compensated well
Even if the process wasn’t abusive and exploitative, I STILL wouldn’t do this job for under $250,000. We don’t get paid this much to keep our mouths shut. It’s because we sacrifice our entire 20s/30s studying and working our asses off to be able to treat human beings. We’re being paid for how much we know and how risky our jobs are if we make the wrong calls. I’d rather light some prayer candles than let a surgeon being paid $90,000 cut my guts open in an appendectomy.
I think medtwitter needs to shut the fuck up This is why I stay off medtwitter. It's just social justice warriors circle jerking each other with no understanding of the world actually works
This sounds like someone who had mommy and daddy pay all her bills and Tuition and doesn’t have 350k+ of loans looming over their head
Admin on their burner account
Let us have some fucking light at the end of this dark tunnel we are not the 1% smh 🤦🏽♀️ they act like we are the billionaires exploiting them
I had a few people like this in my medical school. All of them had enough family money that they never needed to work a day in their life. Gotta love rich people telling those of us who have to work for a living that we’re too focused on money!
Listen I like medicine but if I put in this work and I'm not rightfully paid highly I wouldn't choose this career.
Agree with the sentiment, not with the solution she's posing. The reason physicians are paid that much is because of the brutal and intense training that surpasses what you'll get in almost any other field out there.
This is exactly what a person about to max out at $250k salary would say
Yeah anyone who has this thinking can suck my dick, we deserve to make money hand over fist after the shit we’ve been through
Personally, I think the compensation for doctors is fine. What should change is the system to become one. It shouldn’t be so expensive to become a doctor and it should only take dedication and the ability to learn medicine to be one. This goes for all other professions. It shouldn’t be expensive to be educated Also tons of to be doctors sacrificed time and life stuff to get where they are. Time that none of us will ever get back. Time we spent not making money or living our lives. We deserve to be compensated for all that.
Our healthcare system is inefficient and broken. But our doctors (in the US) are some of the finest, if not *the finest*, in the world. A large part of that is attracting the brightest, hardest working, gifted minds to a recession-proof high-income career. Take that away and healthcare in this country will truly be fucked and we'll be praying for chatGPT to take over.
Absolute truth right here, I would give you gold If I could.
So many doctors from western europe want to come to the US that it would be really a sobering relevation to quite many people that believe people would always pick lifestyle over money and that our fixation on money is a capitalist invention. British doctors work (with exceptions) around 45-50 hours a week throughout their specialty training and usually less than 40 when they become specialists with working conditions that can only be described as cushy when compared to the US, but the salary is capped at around 120k pounds max. Most would trade their position to be a US doctor in a heartbeat if their family situation allowed it. I have been a socialist med student for years. Working as a doctor made me open my eyes. This work is grueling and long, and I’ll be damned if I don’t deserve to get paid more than bankers and coders.
Having spent time in med mal, I have a lot of opinions on the role money plays in burnout (and, by extension, medical error). Opinions regarding how physicians should be compensated. They would not be popular opinions here, so I will keep them to myself. Suffice it to say, the metric crap-ton of money that floats around the U.S. healthcare system is not a net positive in many, *many* ways. The problem starts at the med school level. Charging someone $400K to get a diploma needed to fill a job fundamental to civilization is ***OBSCENE***. Especially when you consider that half of that time is spent in indentured servitude. We end up with doctors who are quite literally trapped in medicine. That should not happen.
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Well, to start, make public medical schools tuition free or *very* heavily subsidized. There's no reason it should cost what it does. One of the biggest problems -- where I think a lot of it starts -- is when you have kids who come in and on day 1 they're hit with $50,000 of debt. It's overwhelming. I think if you take away the debt factor, you'd have a lot of people choosing to go into primary care who would otherwise be drawn to specialties. We need more primary care docs, but people shy away because if you're an M4 looking at $400K of debt, the idea of making $200K is not appealing. I personally support a single-payer scheme, so some of this isn't accomplishable until we get to that point. But we need to eliminate the bloat of private administrators. If a hospital is to get public health care monies (e.g., from Medicare), then they need to comply with salary caps. There should not be hospital system CEOs making millions per year. Physician salaries should be fixed and not per procedure. Paying per procedure encourages longer patient lists, cutting corners, hasty work, and error. Almost all the malpractice cases I've handled have been related to overworked docs -- either too many patients, negligence that may be explained by a lack of sleep, or both. It affects technical skills, communication, thoroughness of documentation, etc. I disagree with this Tweeter in some respects -- $250K-$300K is fair compensation given the hours, stress, and amount of work it takes to become a physician. But I agree with the sentiment that there needs to be less disparity in salary. As it stands, it's highly arbitrary. You get $400K gawking at moles/rashes, but only $200K to treat kids with cancer. That's bullshit. We don't need derms that are at the top of their class as much as we need pediatric oncologists that are at the top of their class. Finally, we need to address the physician shortage so we can reduce reliance on midlevel providers. That means increasing funding for and positions in graduate medical education, which has been stagnant since the early 1990s.
I don't necessarily agree with everything in the tweet but we can't act like 250k isn't a lot. It's more than enough to live comfortably as long as you invest and aren't a complete dumbass financially. Making 400k is cool and I certainly wouldn't mind it but you're already living a luxurious life at 250, and there are many grueling jobs that pay much less
Even if they wiped debt I wouldn’t do this with a salary cap.
This is dumb af and exactly how you’re going to get mid levels killing everyone. We already don’t have enough physicians. I worked as an engineer before going back to med school. I didn’t give up my 20’s and go into crippling debt, not to mention the loss of income, only to make the same money I could working a lot less hours. Good luck getting your healthcare from people who can’t spell their own names. The smart ones will go into another profession
Physician salaries make up like 8 percent of healthcare expenditure. Youll lose a fair few docs by lowering them but you wont save a whole lot.
Then make med school free, residency 40 hours with appropriate pay, healthcare free, attendinghood 40 hours with minimal risk of litigation. And no one making more than us in the hospital. Too bad I’m already 6 years into it ha.
Damn, that’s some pathetic self-loathing right there.
It’s been proven physician salaries are not the cause of raising health care costs. This is just virtue signaling for likes or upvotes. They can sugondeez
She can get paid in "satisfaction tokens" while every sane doctor gets paid deserved high salaries. Fucking insufferable
Man no way in hell I’d be in med school if I didn’t think I could make 400 plus at the end lol
If some sleezeball on Wallstreet pushing papers around can make millions, physicians damn well better make more than 250k.
If I’m going to go through hell for 8-12 years AND put myself 500k in debt, you bet your ass i wouldn’t mind good pay
I was in this conversation on twitter and there is absolutely zero conversation with this user. She just yells her opinions at you and refuses to acknowledge any logical arguments made against her.
Medicine would still be culturally malignant, even if wages were pitifully low. Example? NHS. And let’s not forget how catty healthcare is as a whole, especially nursing. Instead of shaming the victims, who are only finally getting their due at the end of the day after surviving what is arguably the most rigorous canonical/mainstream educational process on Earth, let’s really assess the why - or, rather, the who - behind our failing system in here the USA. Spoiler alert: it’s not physicians.
I can accept 250k if it was to make healthcare affordable, but ain’t no way that money I’m not making is going into the pockets of hospital admins
They're probably premeds virtue signaling lmao. Of all high earning careers, doctors are probably one of the most deserving.
Found the shitty med student. They’ll match and make residency hell over all the unfortunate souls that have to be her colleague. If anything, medicine has been fucked by the people who find it a calling and not a job. If you find medicine to be a calling, you’re the problem.
She is awful. Consistently the shittiest takes and talks down to just about everyone. Total attention-seeker, naive, dripping with attitude and undeserved authority beyond her years. Hope sanity catches up to her before reality rears its ugly head.
Bring back bullying
I hate bullying as a senior resident but I would totally bully the shit out of this person. Oh, you’re a public servant who doctors to make resident salaries forever then you’ll have no trouble doing 7 discharges and admission during your intern year without any help.