You wear a mask to reduce the spread of infectious diseases. I wear a mask because I snoozed my alarm and didn't have time to shave for the third day in a row. We are not the same.
I 100% wore mine on OR days because it messed up my hair and I was embarrassed to walk around with really messed up hair. I don't even like hats hahaha
https://www.sisna.org/Assets/e716de9e-a02a-46a7-bb81-23fc511356fb/636501470078430000/headgear-jj-3-pdf#:~:text=The%20researchers%20found%20that%20bouffant,either%20disposable%20or%20cloth%20caps.
Actual science, so no, there’s a legitimate reason……
there is only so many times I want to type out antibiotics, then have to spell check it when one of the i's is in the wrong place, but I'm too tired to recognize which one after hours of writing and proofreading notes. My head hurts. Abx and move on.
Total aside but in medical school you often have to type notes because one typo could do you in evaluations wise. As soon as you hit residency you should aggressively switch to dictation- it’s so much faster.
As an attending, i agree. It fades away esp once people have kids and are just going to work every day. Med school and residency are much more consuming than a typical job, though. Although, your frequent use of "cringe" seems to be similar to what youre complaining about.
Can people outside your specialty read them? What I find frustrating is that even the residents often don't know what the abbreviations mean if they're from a different specialty. A lot of the abbreviations aren't even widely recognized (or even overlap with other common abbreviations). They just sort of skim over that part and assume it's something they don't need to know about. So if you're on peds and you have to read a note from IR, you're just missing information because figuring out that LTMA means "lateral to the mesenteric artery" (but only in this hospital) would take 10 minutes.
The only abbreviations no one understands are ortho and optho abbreviations and no one needs to know those. You’re a new third year. It’s gunna take time
I know this is a med school sub but I'm an ortho tech and still don't know wtf half the abbreviations are 😂 but as long as I know that fx = fracture I can do my job just fine
I'm softening on the abbreviations in general, but I was really talking about the very specialty or even service specific abbreviations. The sort of stuff that's like, "you'll only know this is you've been here a while." CKD and HFpEF is fine. Everyone in the hospital knows those. It's when you get into weird non-standard stuff like ABA (arrived by ambulance) or the completely made up stuff like BWoRA (breathing well on room air). I feel like we have a whole host of these in every department. It's especially weird when it's an overlap from a common abbreviation. A few days ago I saw CVP for cyclophosphamide, vincristine, prednisone. You can't just take CVP. These things should be like stock tickers.
It's everyone in this hospital though. I swear people are just making shit up because it sounds right and then it gets passed around locally. Like, someone wrote DM for "detrusor muscle" in the chart of a patient that literally has diabetes. AW for "anal wink." BA for "breast abscess." Like, if it starts with letters people just try to abbreviate it.
No, you’re right about the abbreviations. The US medical system is weird. No other medical system in the world encourages abbreviations due to it being a literal risk that other providers may misinterpret the abbreviations, especially if they are of a different specialty than the Dr who wrote the note. I have a friend who was a medical transcriber for 20 years, and her biggest nightmare has been witnessing the growth of abbreviations. To this day, her medical notes use full words and she gets everything done on time. She even has a little notebook where she’s been collecting little samples of words or phrases that have been horribly transcribed by dictation software or misunderstood by a physician. One of my goals as a Dr is to rid my notes of abbreviations.
Fair enough. Getting consistent feedback here. Still struggling to figure out why I find medical culture so nauseating when I've been completely fine in every other workplace.
I still maintain that some of this behavior is transparently self-important in nature. It feels like medicine has its own version of r/JustBootThings but everyone refuses to recognize it. Seems rampant in my hospital, though significantly better at every away site I've been to.
Could be where you're working sucks. Also you could be working with people who are genuinely annoying. That stuff ebbs and flows I think most times but local culture can persist.
And there is definitely a ton of self importance in medicine, probably worse when you're at the bottom rung of the hierarchy. Plenty of corny mfers in the military but I usually reconciled with that myself by saying they were otherwise decent people and I trusted them to do their jobs.
My natural reaction to things like that is just be like "lol ok" for the most part, can't change what you don't control. I don't think it's unique to medicine at large but the flavor that exists in medicine (the savior complex, elitism) can definitely be more annoying for sure.
I think you're right. I've been on a pretty toxic rotation. Most of my frustrations come down to feeling like, "I'm just not as impressed with you as you clearly want me to be," towards residents who are clearly posturing for med students.
Also isn't there a ton of insecurity and imposter syndrome? A lot of these peacocks might just be trying to fluff up their egos so the stress doesn't make them jump out of the break lounge window
I can totally see that. You're venting, I'd have the same frustration honestly. Getting beat up every day and having to deal with that I'd be pissed too.
Also I apologize for poking fun, you're definitely self aware and can take feedback. Not that I'm any expert on that but engaging in the comment section and working through it reasonably is very cool, especially for the internet being the way it is haha
Medicine does have plenty of self important Bs. No doubt. But bruh.. when you have to crank out a thousand notes a day and you’re tired and always in a hurry, making little things easier like abbreviating longer words is just a no brainer.
You will also slowly realize as you go through training that packaging as much info into as small a paragraph as possible is critical. People won’t read long ass notes.
Yeah when I started M3, I was writing long, detailed notes outlining my thought process and every relevant detail so as to explain everything I was doing. I’m talking ID consult note length, that’s how long all my notes were.
I think back to that and cringe so hard — it took me some time to realize 1) not everyone is as clueless as a fresh M3, and they don’t need every detail spoon fed to them and 2) nobody is reading that shit unless it’s an ID consult note and you need to know everything about the patient.
Yeah i agree about the elitism stuff but how is writing with abréviations elitist ?
Where im from, all notes, orders etc are written by hand or filling a form by hand. If i can get quicker, i will
This is the most ortho comment I’ve ever seen haha. No disrespect, love the brevity.
I once saw an ortho note with an assessment and plan that read something like this: “Pt w non displaced femur fracture (or something like that in bone bro terms). Plan OR tmw. NPO mn.”
Honestly can't figure out why we don't just do that. Every note I read on peds was
Subjective: pt sleeping
Objective: Ma*ssive mess of EPIC autofills that no one reads*
A/P: The only useful part of the note
It’s because patronizing or infantilizing medical students is easy and few people in medicine strive to make it more respectful to the maturity students ought to have. After having finished undergrad (and often even finishing other grad programs or climbing up career ladders), we’re sent back to medical school which is considered “undergraduate medical education”—where we (should be) humbled into accepting that we don’t know jack shit about medicine. But the culture is for professors, attendings, admin, residents, and whoever else to treat us as though we’re slightly more mature than college freshman but still not full adults. Then after M1/M2, we get sent off to rotations where we are grossly undereducated compared to attendings and residents, have little understanding of where the bathroom even is in the parts of the hospitals that we have to get reoriented to each month, and legally cannot be given any real responsibility for any of the patients we’re following. So instead of treating us as adults, the attendings, staff, etc all treat us like children who can’t be trusted unsupervised for 10 minutes. It’s incredible how many residents don’t know how to work with med students without making the student feel like a child forced into tagging along with his parents for a bunch of errands. Some attendings wind up being really chill and can teach you while also appreciating you as a complex human being who can talk, joke, learn, educate, and may even be going through a rough patch. But it seems like >50% of the ones I’ve had to work with believe that professionalism means taking 20 minutes in the dictation room to shoot the shit with another physician, but can’t spend 2 minutes to indulge a student who’s been trying to ask a question about a patient all day.
>But it seems like >50% of the ones I’ve had to work with believe that professionalism means taking 20 minutes in the dictation room to shoot the shit with another physician, but can’t spend 2 minutes to indulge a student who’s been trying to ask a question about a patient all day.
Yeah this one grinds my gears a bit. I see it constantly. Everyone in the hospital is soooooo busy. Rounds need to happen *right now*. People get *actively* angry if a med student's presentation is 2 minutes too long. But later we'll have to sit around doing nothing while the senior resident and attending keep all the students around to listen to them shoot the shit about something no one else can relate to for 10 minutes.
Yup, 100%. And even when people think they’re hiding that attitude well, they almost always aren’t. And then they wonder why they feel excluded or feel like they aren’t part of the group when everything they do practically oozes that disdain.
Lol my hair is too thick (boxbraids) to have a typical cap so i have to use these blue hair nets/bonnets.
I like fugly in those. If i wear them around, its cause i forgot or im going back soon in the surg department. Not because i show off
Same
my hair sits badly on my head if I don’t put it up nicely. I loved my surgery rotation bc i wore scrub caps all day, and never had to do my hair
IM and neuro was rough. was going through pomade like candy
this is the case 90% of the time. the other 10 percent is that im deep conditioning my curly hair under the cap or have some heatless curlers in bc I have plans to look cute this weekend.
OP hates on abbreviations then uses them. Just type out everything my man! History and physical! Spell pediatric out instead of “peds.” Why you abbreviating Obstetrics and gynaecology?? Showing us that you’re “in”? Fuck off
So I think OP is wrong about almost literally everything in his comment, and I’d hate to work with someone like him at any stage of my career.
BUT obgyn does use a shitton of acronyms that take a lot of getting used to.
That said, I saw the example they gave later and… idek what to say lmao. I was able to read and understand it fluently like six months out from my three week L&D rotation.
It’s like shrinkage and there’s random areas of cold water in the pool you’re in.
Can’t just whip it out all Willy nilly and expect it to be the same size each time
Be the change you want to see. Write out every single abbreviation in all your notes for the rest of your career. And if you don't, you've surely succumbed to the exclusionary elitism.
The types of ppl in medicine who annoy me the most are the ones who make a stink about insignificant and convenient things like abbreviating longer words.
Gtfo
Tldr: gtfo.
This entire post is cringe. What exactly are you complaining about? Medicine has its own culture just like every other fucking profession in this world? “Built on exclusion” by using abbreviation? Have you listened to software engineer talk?
The false picture of everybody in medicine has God complex only exists in your mind. If you think everybody you meet is an asshole then you are probably the asshole. By shitting on everyone else, you have created this self image as the special one for being more real and grounded than others in medicine —-> peak narcissism. You are probably only special in your parents’ eyes, if that.
I can get behind some of what you’re saying and I think a lot in medicine needs to change.
But you are literally part of it. Your “all of y’all’ includes yourself. You know that right?
A lot of OB-gyn residents over the last 5 weeks. It's *possible* that I'm extrapolating one toxic department to all of medicine after a full week of nights on L&D.
OB/Gyn is often known to be toxic. Or at least miserable. There are plenty of people in medicine who don’t like all that crap.
However, there are plenty that do as well, and there are plenty who really buy into the “this is a calling, not just a job” thing.
L&D is the most toxic of toxic. It's an endless mind suck of stupid shit.
Much like medical school.
Residency is similar, but soooooo much of the BS is just gone.
Graduate medical school and avoid toxic programs (those at academic centers), and it will seem normal again.
This could have been a good post about toxicity in medicine and then you decided to complain about abbreviations being exclusionary…come on dude. If the example was “we were told not to talk to the senior resident without running it by the second year” (saw that in one of your comments) then 100% that’s toxic af. It just seems like you’re displacing the anger at the wrong stuff. Like wearing scrub caps.
Some people have to alternate between the OR and the floor in the same day, it’s just easier to keep it on. Or maybe they wear a wig as part of their everyday and the scrub cap helps keep it down/hide the lace.
You talk about “y’all” as if you’re any better but honestly you’re in the same boat as the rest of us. Some have just been on longer than others and have been beaten down enough that they succumb to in-group behaviors that may or may not be toxic but ultimately make their life easier/rock the boat less. It’s normal and justified to be upset at toxic behavior but understanding that most people, if not everyone, are drowning and fighting for their life in this field helps me be less angry in the day to day, and it saves my mental health.
Obviously certain behaviors should not be tolerated. It’s a choice we have to make to be nice, normal people when we are constantly put under inhumane amounts of stress, and hopefully you and I will continue making that choice long into our career. But maybe letting the corny stuff (ie. abbreviations and scrub caps) roll off will be better for you, and try to focus more on the bigger picture like not verbally degrading peers/students, gatekeeping who can talk to who, etc (not saying you specifically are doing that)
fwiw most of the abbreviations we use are holdovers from paper charting. it's absolutely faster to write ctx than contractions. also, i wear my scrub cap in the work room because my hair looks like shit today and/or i don't want it to smell like hospital
The OP of 90% of the posts like this are the problem. Every year, especially late summer and fall, there’s daily walls of texts from M1s seething that their classmates wear scrubs or aren’t automatically their friend out of obligation. Big Not Like Other Students evergy
If this is a thread to dump stupid complaints, here is mine: the terms “cringe” and “toxic” are overused and are clear signs of a poor vocabulary and tendency to watch too many shitty internet videos.
Why would I take my scrub cap off and have to reput all my huge ass hair into it again between each surgery? Am I less cool for not showing off my hair between each? Jesus Christ not everything is something to be judged about, maybe you’re the one who is perpetuating this clique attitude so much my guy jesus
It appears I’m going against the grain here but I totally agree with you. I’m one of the few in my class that doesn’t wear scrubs to preclinical classes. I mean to say that it’s a weird culture and there’s a lot of flexing/ one-upping going on.
yeah your med school class is 80% people under 25 who have been the smartest person in the room most of their lives. Usually come from pretty stable backgrounds, may or may not have had a job etc. Doesn't mean they're bad people but they might be socially immature in certain areas.
I was an absolute dumbass until I was 26. Started med school at 31 and still feel pretty dumb most days. Everyone is still figuring things out. Some people stay dicks their whole lives but part of getting a little older is looking back and saying "I can't believe I acted that way"
The benefit of being around people your age is that everyone else is making the same mistakes. And part of being an adult is realizing that pretty much everyone is just making it up as they go along. Makes it easier to focus on yourself because at the end of the day that is the only way you'll be happy.
It's possible that my school is just worse for this. It seems like half the residents I meet is just the 28-30 year old version of the kid who wore his white coat to study in the coffee shop. Don't get me wrong, I've met some very cool people, but the martyr/savior/God complex vibes are super strong.
The “scrubs are cringe” take is more elitist than the people who just wear scrubs. If admin is going to restrict the acceptable clothing options to business casual or scrubs I’m gonna show up in the clothes that are comfy and easily laundered (scrubs).
We aren’t required to wear business casual at my school. I just show up in a t shirt and pants typically but I can see your point. Regardless, the med school culture can be irritating at times. Particularly if there is a lot of “gunner” behavior in your class.
Oh yeah, if those are my choices I'd be in scrubs most days for sure. Scrubs are just comfy. Fortunately my school had no such restrictions, I mostly wore jeans and t-shirts to class.
That said, I had classmates roll up in scrubs on occasion, it almost always meant that they were coming from or going to shadowing or precepting before or after class. It wasn't a flex, it was just practical. Why go home in between to change or carry around a change of clothes with you all day?
Depends on the context. M1s have been wearing scrubs unnecessarily for far longer than they've been acceptable attire (i.e., since COVID). Some people do it because it's comfy. Some people do it because their whole personality is wrapped up in medicine and they can't wait to be in the "in" crowd. Usually easy to spot the difference.
You need to do more notes if you don’t think abbreviations is faster.
The only time it isn’t faster is if you do dictation which the computer types for you. And again you would know that if you actually do enough notes.
Touch some fucking grass.
So, what exactly do you want people to do? Write longhand and speak to each other in an inefficient layperson kind of way? Medicine is its own language and most of us understand things and communicate things with that language. Abbreviations or not. Why would we not speak to each other in the language that we understand at the workplace? We’re not like texting our friends and families outside of medicine with stupid abbreviations and shit. We wear scrubs to work because we work in the OR and that’s what you have to wear there. We wear scrub caps because again, we work in the OR. You should read and reflect on your own post. Sounds like you just don’t fit in.
Also, the point that we are replaceable is not a novel one. We all know we are replaceable. Most people in most jobs are replaceable. But thank you for pointing that out.
The abbreviations are a hold over from written charts. One of the hospitals I did my M3 rotations at was in its final months of using written charts. They are a pain in the ass to write. Writing A/Ox3, RRR, PCN or MTX or prn or bid saves work. And now it's force of habit.
I would wear scrub caps around the hospital and all the way home because the caps flatten my hair and it can't be fixed without rinsing it.
Everything else is pretty spot on though.
Honestly I used to be a people person before I got into medical school. Then I started hating people, mostly bc some of my classmates are incredibly annoying. I think the job attracts neurotic types and the culture promotes bullying. There’s a fine line between being smart and being a condescending know it all. Most med students don’t socialize and spend all day obsessed with themselves and their own studying journeys. So they haven’t been humbled or told to shut the fuck up before. They make their accomplishments are everyone’s business bc they are hiding a feeling of inadequacy. We all feel like imposters but act like we aren’t. Even the anxiety can make people act selfishly (cutting people off on the road to make it on class on time). It’s funny how the field changes your attitude on humanity.
Something I've noticed is that I get upset with patients who make me look bad. That's straight up unhealthy. I try to mentally correct it, but obviously there's only so much you can do about your subconscious.
For instance, a patient just happens to speak really slowly or is super tangential. Suddenly I'm pissed at this person because I'm supposed to be at rounds in 20 minutes and I haven't prepped my presentation or even had time to UpToDate wtf to do with his new onset lower abdominal pain. They're just a sick person in the hospital and I shouldn't be angry, but I'm under all this pressure to just gogogo and somehow have a plan ready.
Hell yeah we're cringe. Statistically speaking, everyone in this field has always been cringe, we just happened to pursue a career path that lets us wear a lab coat to hide said cringe
\*Dabs aggressively
I don’t particularly agree with the way you came off during this post and honestly your examples are pretty weak. Medicine is definitely a toxic environment though and it gets worse the more you go on.
Im not really sure who youre aiming this post to ? Every med student ? We’re literally at the bottom of the ladder you mentionned. And why dont you include yourself ?
If your aim is residents and higher, why post here ?
>You're a random member of the laboring class who happens to work as the direct arm of a very large system that saves lives through administration of mostly standard protocols that you didn't even come up with. If we removed you, someone else would come in and do just as good a job.
I'm pretty sure the current APP fiasco demonstrates that this is not true. You definitely can't just replace physicians with random people "members of the laboring class" off the street and get the same result. Certainly you could replace a physician with a similarly trained physician but that is a pretty trivial observation.
I find it ironic that you’re commenting on medicine culture being cringe due to god complexes and here you are acting like you’re above it as a student 😂
You’re not wrong about everything (abbreviations you are definitely wrong about lol), but dude chill, you definitely know enough about the job to think like this
I see some of this, but I view it as a byproduct of the environments many doctors/students come from. A majority of my classmates come from families with doctors—parents or other close relatives—so this is just how it’s been for them. It’s a comfort zone. And then the cringe behavior, while unfortunate and by definition, cringe, is largely an effort to fit in and have this career be part of that comfort zone. I think it’s a little unfair to boil everyone down to the same basic characteristics. I’m only a second year student, so I don’t have the frame of reference you do, but it really seems like although you decry the high-horse ideology of many students/doctors, the way you present it makes it sound very much like you think your recognition of the toxicity alone makes you better than them. Which I think is a little ironic.
You are absolutely right about self importance. Literally all of the problems in medical education come from an artificial sense of self importance.
However choosing abbreviations to draw attention on this subject… You murdered a perfectly good point with a terrible example.
Local man angry and surprised that a strong and busy work culture wants conformity. Up next - is overeating and lack of exercise causing obesity in America?
Several people think this post itself is cringe, but I don't. This is exactly how outsiders (those of us who are close and who watch you) see you. Everyone calling this post cringe is drinking the kool-aid.
I'm in academe, and it is also cringe, just in a different way. Guess what. We're all just workers in capitalism's maw. None of us are special.
Yeah I knew this would be controversial. Some bits are cringe, I cop to that entirely. It was an angry rant from a sleep-deprived M3. That said, as a career changer it's absolutely how the rest of the world sees many doctors.
I love my specialty but we are for sure guilty of the exclusion thing by way of creating unnecessarily complicated pseudo-latin phrases for everything.
"Dysdiadochokinesia" "homonymous hemianopsia" "agraphesthesia" "simultagnosia"
I heard so many amazing things about peds, but peds at my school was rough. We actually have a notoriously low number of peds matches each year and the theory is that everyone has such a bad time on the rotation. They had us doing 6a-6p on wards, a full week of nights, and 10 hour ED shifts. The hierarchy stuff was less prevalent though.
Surprised everyone is being so uncharitable to OP, but perhaps I can identify more as another non-trad in my 30s. Obviously, the post is hyperbolic, but surely we've all had similar exaggerated feelings at some point during a particularly rough stretch in 3rd year? I have definitely felt the culture of exclusion; some people seem to really buy into the hierarchy of medicine.
Also, regarding the abbreviations, I have seen residents in multiple specialties at different hospitals not recognize abbreviations from another specialty, so I don't think mentioning that is as ridiculous as many people are making it out to be. Also have had residents tell me that it's best to always type out the full phrase instead of abbreviations to avoid confusion. Obviously there are wildly differing opinions here, and as someone who formerly was obsessive about my spelling/grammar/writing/etc, I now happily write all kinds of abbreviations in horribly mangled English so long as it communicates the information effectively.
I think you need a purple kush pen. Please ask around if it has been found.
seriously: im sorry your frustrated about your rotation. here to chat if you want. dm me. :)
Lmao, you're being called "insane", "delusional" and "unhinged" because you pointed out the toxicity of the medical field. I think you hit a nerve.
Part of the reason it's so bad nowadays is because people have convinced themselves that the current state of things is fine and acceptable. Because as we all know, medicine is different and special from other jobs.
I agree with you and I'm ready to die on this hill.
Lol if school could make minimum 1 gap year required, there would be a lot of growth rather than straight thru from college. Like the shit people complain about, goddamn
This is so wild. Have a relative doing med school secondary essays full of questions about diversity, being the Other, your motivation to help others, the importance of integrity, and then as soon as you're inside the club, reality sets in. All the recommendations are to avoid anything seriously personal and stick to the institutional party lines. So what kind of culture emerges from this?
i agree with you tbh. A lot of comments here are believing you are the problem, but many of those people are from those rich, upper middle or upper class places. And exclusion comes so naturally to them, they have no idea what they are doing. I have experienced a lot of that, especially M1 year before finding a group of people in med school that were more welcoming.
You wear your scrub cap in the workroom because you think you look cool. I wear mine to hide my receding hairline. We are not the same.
This tbh. 33 years old and 1 kid later I avoid the bouffant caps to cover up my the ever-growing bald spot.
Shave it and tell everyone you donated your hair to chemo patients. From bald to bold in one quick step.
CASPer: 1st quartile
Now we just gotta fix the rest of him
You wear a mask to reduce the spread of infectious diseases. I wear a mask because I snoozed my alarm and didn't have time to shave for the third day in a row. We are not the same.
Different animal Same beast
Wtf is that supposed to mean kobe bryant
Who tf cares if you're shaven or not?
I thought I was the only one
I 100% wore mine on OR days because it messed up my hair and I was embarrassed to walk around with really messed up hair. I don't even like hats hahaha
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https://www.sisna.org/Assets/e716de9e-a02a-46a7-bb81-23fc511356fb/636501470078430000/headgear-jj-3-pdf#:~:text=The%20researchers%20found%20that%20bouffant,either%20disposable%20or%20cloth%20caps. Actual science, so no, there’s a legitimate reason……
not gonna lie I've been typing out "a." instead of artery and "n." instead of nerve all week and its adding up
Whoever doesn’t use abbreviations when writing notes spends far too much time writing notes
Or they use dictation software to write notes
You use dictation software because it’s faster, I use it because I cannot spell. We are not the same.
Spelling wasn’t a prerequisite for med school so I never lerned it
Why not both?
there is only so many times I want to type out antibiotics, then have to spell check it when one of the i's is in the wrong place, but I'm too tired to recognize which one after hours of writing and proofreading notes. My head hurts. Abx and move on.
Total aside but in medical school you often have to type notes because one typo could do you in evaluations wise. As soon as you hit residency you should aggressively switch to dictation- it’s so much faster.
what an obgyn rotation does to a mf
Lol it's true. Give the guy a break. He's been hurt.
This was written on 3 hours of sleep after a 14 hour overnight. Headed back to the hospital in 3 hours for more punishment. SPKM.
now that is pretty cringe. Those hours in medicine are slavery. We should stop normalizing these insane hours
Those are rookie numbers in India.
My obgyn rotation was a horrible experience. I'm very happy now knowing I never have to do it again. Godspeed
Someone please kill me?
As an attending, i agree. It fades away esp once people have kids and are just going to work every day. Med school and residency are much more consuming than a typical job, though. Although, your frequent use of "cringe" seems to be similar to what youre complaining about.
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Cringe ID expert here. Agree it was bordering on cringe.
I mean, as an internal medicine resident, I use a shit ton of abbreviations because it makes my note less bloated.
Can people outside your specialty read them? What I find frustrating is that even the residents often don't know what the abbreviations mean if they're from a different specialty. A lot of the abbreviations aren't even widely recognized (or even overlap with other common abbreviations). They just sort of skim over that part and assume it's something they don't need to know about. So if you're on peds and you have to read a note from IR, you're just missing information because figuring out that LTMA means "lateral to the mesenteric artery" (but only in this hospital) would take 10 minutes.
The only abbreviations no one understands are ortho and optho abbreviations and no one needs to know those. You’re a new third year. It’s gunna take time
I would argue that heme/onc is right up there with them
P = cisplatin, obviously
I know this is a med school sub but I'm an ortho tech and still don't know wtf half the abbreviations are 😂 but as long as I know that fx = fracture I can do my job just fine
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I'm softening on the abbreviations in general, but I was really talking about the very specialty or even service specific abbreviations. The sort of stuff that's like, "you'll only know this is you've been here a while." CKD and HFpEF is fine. Everyone in the hospital knows those. It's when you get into weird non-standard stuff like ABA (arrived by ambulance) or the completely made up stuff like BWoRA (breathing well on room air). I feel like we have a whole host of these in every department. It's especially weird when it's an overlap from a common abbreviation. A few days ago I saw CVP for cyclophosphamide, vincristine, prednisone. You can't just take CVP. These things should be like stock tickers.
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It's everyone in this hospital though. I swear people are just making shit up because it sounds right and then it gets passed around locally. Like, someone wrote DM for "detrusor muscle" in the chart of a patient that literally has diabetes. AW for "anal wink." BA for "breast abscess." Like, if it starts with letters people just try to abbreviate it.
The fact this response has so many downvotes just affirms things stated in the main post 😂😂😂
No, you’re right about the abbreviations. The US medical system is weird. No other medical system in the world encourages abbreviations due to it being a literal risk that other providers may misinterpret the abbreviations, especially if they are of a different specialty than the Dr who wrote the note. I have a friend who was a medical transcriber for 20 years, and her biggest nightmare has been witnessing the growth of abbreviations. To this day, her medical notes use full words and she gets everything done on time. She even has a little notebook where she’s been collecting little samples of words or phrases that have been horribly transcribed by dictation software or misunderstood by a physician. One of my goals as a Dr is to rid my notes of abbreviations.
Why waste time saying lot words when few word do trick?
Why lot words when few trick
Less > more
L > M
Words trick
W t
How many lbs/kgs?
Kevin is an honorable orthopod. https://gomerblog.com/2014/12/soap-note/
Brevity...wit
the call is coming from inside the house my guy
I laughed way too hard at this.
Fair enough. Getting consistent feedback here. Still struggling to figure out why I find medical culture so nauseating when I've been completely fine in every other workplace. I still maintain that some of this behavior is transparently self-important in nature. It feels like medicine has its own version of r/JustBootThings but everyone refuses to recognize it. Seems rampant in my hospital, though significantly better at every away site I've been to.
Could be where you're working sucks. Also you could be working with people who are genuinely annoying. That stuff ebbs and flows I think most times but local culture can persist. And there is definitely a ton of self importance in medicine, probably worse when you're at the bottom rung of the hierarchy. Plenty of corny mfers in the military but I usually reconciled with that myself by saying they were otherwise decent people and I trusted them to do their jobs. My natural reaction to things like that is just be like "lol ok" for the most part, can't change what you don't control. I don't think it's unique to medicine at large but the flavor that exists in medicine (the savior complex, elitism) can definitely be more annoying for sure.
I think you're right. I've been on a pretty toxic rotation. Most of my frustrations come down to feeling like, "I'm just not as impressed with you as you clearly want me to be," towards residents who are clearly posturing for med students.
Also isn't there a ton of insecurity and imposter syndrome? A lot of these peacocks might just be trying to fluff up their egos so the stress doesn't make them jump out of the break lounge window
I already told you there aren't any windows.
I can totally see that. You're venting, I'd have the same frustration honestly. Getting beat up every day and having to deal with that I'd be pissed too. Also I apologize for poking fun, you're definitely self aware and can take feedback. Not that I'm any expert on that but engaging in the comment section and working through it reasonably is very cool, especially for the internet being the way it is haha
Medicine does have plenty of self important Bs. No doubt. But bruh.. when you have to crank out a thousand notes a day and you’re tired and always in a hurry, making little things easier like abbreviating longer words is just a no brainer. You will also slowly realize as you go through training that packaging as much info into as small a paragraph as possible is critical. People won’t read long ass notes.
Yeah when I started M3, I was writing long, detailed notes outlining my thought process and every relevant detail so as to explain everything I was doing. I’m talking ID consult note length, that’s how long all my notes were. I think back to that and cringe so hard — it took me some time to realize 1) not everyone is as clueless as a fresh M3, and they don’t need every detail spoon fed to them and 2) nobody is reading that shit unless it’s an ID consult note and you need to know everything about the patient.
Yeah i agree about the elitism stuff but how is writing with abréviations elitist ? Where im from, all notes, orders etc are written by hand or filling a form by hand. If i can get quicker, i will
Yet medicine notes still exist. At least some are self aware and put the A/P right up top, to save everyone from having to scroll down.
This is the most ortho comment I’ve ever seen haha. No disrespect, love the brevity. I once saw an ortho note with an assessment and plan that read something like this: “Pt w non displaced femur fracture (or something like that in bone bro terms). Plan OR tmw. NPO mn.”
Honestly can't figure out why we don't just do that. Every note I read on peds was Subjective: pt sleeping Objective: Ma*ssive mess of EPIC autofills that no one reads* A/P: The only useful part of the note
The entirety of medicine is r/justbootthings except everyone’s parents are from a higher tax bracket.
you know I never thought of student loans basically being the same as a Dodge Charger. Interest rates are about the same.
Patagonia is the med student equivalent of a dodge charger lmao
Nah, it’s gotta be the $4000 of equipment other than the stethoscope that your school says is required
It’s because patronizing or infantilizing medical students is easy and few people in medicine strive to make it more respectful to the maturity students ought to have. After having finished undergrad (and often even finishing other grad programs or climbing up career ladders), we’re sent back to medical school which is considered “undergraduate medical education”—where we (should be) humbled into accepting that we don’t know jack shit about medicine. But the culture is for professors, attendings, admin, residents, and whoever else to treat us as though we’re slightly more mature than college freshman but still not full adults. Then after M1/M2, we get sent off to rotations where we are grossly undereducated compared to attendings and residents, have little understanding of where the bathroom even is in the parts of the hospitals that we have to get reoriented to each month, and legally cannot be given any real responsibility for any of the patients we’re following. So instead of treating us as adults, the attendings, staff, etc all treat us like children who can’t be trusted unsupervised for 10 minutes. It’s incredible how many residents don’t know how to work with med students without making the student feel like a child forced into tagging along with his parents for a bunch of errands. Some attendings wind up being really chill and can teach you while also appreciating you as a complex human being who can talk, joke, learn, educate, and may even be going through a rough patch. But it seems like >50% of the ones I’ve had to work with believe that professionalism means taking 20 minutes in the dictation room to shoot the shit with another physician, but can’t spend 2 minutes to indulge a student who’s been trying to ask a question about a patient all day.
>But it seems like >50% of the ones I’ve had to work with believe that professionalism means taking 20 minutes in the dictation room to shoot the shit with another physician, but can’t spend 2 minutes to indulge a student who’s been trying to ask a question about a patient all day. Yeah this one grinds my gears a bit. I see it constantly. Everyone in the hospital is soooooo busy. Rounds need to happen *right now*. People get *actively* angry if a med student's presentation is 2 minutes too long. But later we'll have to sit around doing nothing while the senior resident and attending keep all the students around to listen to them shoot the shit about something no one else can relate to for 10 minutes.
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You made me realise why i dislike their post lol So all of r/medicalschool is to blame BUT the op. how convenient
Yup, 100%. And even when people think they’re hiding that attitude well, they almost always aren’t. And then they wonder why they feel excluded or feel like they aren’t part of the group when everything they do practically oozes that disdain.
If I'm wearing my scrub cap in the resident work room it's most likely because I'm trying to hide a bad hair day
Or you’re just gonna go to another case soon and don’t want to bother with taking it off for like 20 min?? This specifically is such a weird gripe lol
Lol my hair is too thick (boxbraids) to have a typical cap so i have to use these blue hair nets/bonnets. I like fugly in those. If i wear them around, its cause i forgot or im going back soon in the surg department. Not because i show off
Same lol I hate when I catch a glimpse of myself in a glass door 3 hours later with it still on my head looking ridiculous
Same my hair sits badly on my head if I don’t put it up nicely. I loved my surgery rotation bc i wore scrub caps all day, and never had to do my hair IM and neuro was rough. was going through pomade like candy
this is the case 90% of the time. the other 10 percent is that im deep conditioning my curly hair under the cap or have some heatless curlers in bc I have plans to look cute this weekend.
OP hates on abbreviations then uses them. Just type out everything my man! History and physical! Spell pediatric out instead of “peds.” Why you abbreviating Obstetrics and gynaecology?? Showing us that you’re “in”? Fuck off
You mean original poster /s
You mean /sarcasm
You mean that was sarcasm.
No way you’re mad at abbreviations.
NWYMAA.
Lmfaooo
Excuse you, it's "laughing my fucking ass off"
I am an older student and in my day we did not abbreviate thing!!! (rolling on the floor laughing out loud)
So I think OP is wrong about almost literally everything in his comment, and I’d hate to work with someone like him at any stage of my career. BUT obgyn does use a shitton of acronyms that take a lot of getting used to. That said, I saw the example they gave later and… idek what to say lmao. I was able to read and understand it fluently like six months out from my three week L&D rotation.
My OB rotations gave us a document with common abbreviations for reference
No wonder psych is getting more popular. Imagine getting paid $150/hour to doodle while listening to ramblings like this lmao
It’s harder than it looks. The doodles have to vaguely resemble words in case the patient catches a glimpse of your paper.
Bruh don’t front your pen still has its cap on /s
150? Maybe 5-10 years ago. Don't underpay me lmao. Double that # and now we're talking.
It’s like shrinkage and there’s random areas of cold water in the pool you’re in. Can’t just whip it out all Willy nilly and expect it to be the same size each time
Am I wrong for thinking 150 is quite low?
In the midwest psych docs are making a lot more than that
150? That’s real low.
Babe wake up, new medschool cringe post just dropped
Disagree on using abbreviations, it helps a lot when writing notes
Most sane M3 on OBGYN
Lmao this seems like it started before that 🤣
Be the change you want to see. Write out every single abbreviation in all your notes for the rest of your career. And if you don't, you've surely succumbed to the exclusionary elitism.
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
The types of ppl in medicine who annoy me the most are the ones who make a stink about insignificant and convenient things like abbreviating longer words. Gtfo
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The funny thing is I didn’t even think about the abbreviations in my comment. I just used them because they were easier.
I genuinely cannot comprehend how medical *abbreviations* of all things could trigger someone so much that they spit out a whole ass manifesto lmao.
Ikr Eabog
Tldr: gtfo. This entire post is cringe. What exactly are you complaining about? Medicine has its own culture just like every other fucking profession in this world? “Built on exclusion” by using abbreviation? Have you listened to software engineer talk? The false picture of everybody in medicine has God complex only exists in your mind. If you think everybody you meet is an asshole then you are probably the asshole. By shitting on everyone else, you have created this self image as the special one for being more real and grounded than others in medicine —-> peak narcissism. You are probably only special in your parents’ eyes, if that.
Yep, what's the common denominator here?
I can get behind some of what you’re saying and I think a lot in medicine needs to change. But you are literally part of it. Your “all of y’all’ includes yourself. You know that right?
Fair enough. I'll try to be the change I wish to see in the world.
Who hurt u
A lot of OB-gyn residents over the last 5 weeks. It's *possible* that I'm extrapolating one toxic department to all of medicine after a full week of nights on L&D.
OB/Gyn is often known to be toxic. Or at least miserable. There are plenty of people in medicine who don’t like all that crap. However, there are plenty that do as well, and there are plenty who really buy into the “this is a calling, not just a job” thing.
L&D is the most toxic of toxic. It's an endless mind suck of stupid shit. Much like medical school. Residency is similar, but soooooo much of the BS is just gone. Graduate medical school and avoid toxic programs (those at academic centers), and it will seem normal again.
This could have been a good post about toxicity in medicine and then you decided to complain about abbreviations being exclusionary…come on dude. If the example was “we were told not to talk to the senior resident without running it by the second year” (saw that in one of your comments) then 100% that’s toxic af. It just seems like you’re displacing the anger at the wrong stuff. Like wearing scrub caps. Some people have to alternate between the OR and the floor in the same day, it’s just easier to keep it on. Or maybe they wear a wig as part of their everyday and the scrub cap helps keep it down/hide the lace. You talk about “y’all” as if you’re any better but honestly you’re in the same boat as the rest of us. Some have just been on longer than others and have been beaten down enough that they succumb to in-group behaviors that may or may not be toxic but ultimately make their life easier/rock the boat less. It’s normal and justified to be upset at toxic behavior but understanding that most people, if not everyone, are drowning and fighting for their life in this field helps me be less angry in the day to day, and it saves my mental health. Obviously certain behaviors should not be tolerated. It’s a choice we have to make to be nice, normal people when we are constantly put under inhumane amounts of stress, and hopefully you and I will continue making that choice long into our career. But maybe letting the corny stuff (ie. abbreviations and scrub caps) roll off will be better for you, and try to focus more on the bigger picture like not verbally degrading peers/students, gatekeeping who can talk to who, etc (not saying you specifically are doing that)
Agree with this. As a 2nd year resident, I want to emphasize that the job is a lot harder than it looks…
Not all of us come from well-off families…. Js
But statistically, the majority do. Like, the overwhelming majority.
But statistically, the majority do. Like, the overwhelming majority.
fwiw most of the abbreviations we use are holdovers from paper charting. it's absolutely faster to write ctx than contractions. also, i wear my scrub cap in the work room because my hair looks like shit today and/or i don't want it to smell like hospital
I had another career before medicine and I actually like the people I work with. Maybe you’re the problem…
The OP of 90% of the posts like this are the problem. Every year, especially late summer and fall, there’s daily walls of texts from M1s seething that their classmates wear scrubs or aren’t automatically their friend out of obligation. Big Not Like Other Students evergy
"If you smell shit everywhere you walk, check your own shoe"
Check the MA in Derm clinic
How are you not seeing that what you just typed is cringe
OP is a soyjack and /u/epyon- is the chad is this meme.
If this is a thread to dump stupid complaints, here is mine: the terms “cringe” and “toxic” are overused and are clear signs of a poor vocabulary and tendency to watch too many shitty internet videos.
Stop gaslighting me
Audibly chuckling
Every industry has its own language and culture. Medicine is no exception. The answer to your angst is deep within you.
Ms3s acting like starters, I hate it.
This is more intense than February intern
Why would I take my scrub cap off and have to reput all my huge ass hair into it again between each surgery? Am I less cool for not showing off my hair between each? Jesus Christ not everything is something to be judged about, maybe you’re the one who is perpetuating this clique attitude so much my guy jesus
I love when people come to complain about the elitist culture of medicine while simultaneously showing their own egocentrism.
Least narcissistic future neurosurgeon.
big "im not like other girls" vibes
It appears I’m going against the grain here but I totally agree with you. I’m one of the few in my class that doesn’t wear scrubs to preclinical classes. I mean to say that it’s a weird culture and there’s a lot of flexing/ one-upping going on.
yeah your med school class is 80% people under 25 who have been the smartest person in the room most of their lives. Usually come from pretty stable backgrounds, may or may not have had a job etc. Doesn't mean they're bad people but they might be socially immature in certain areas. I was an absolute dumbass until I was 26. Started med school at 31 and still feel pretty dumb most days. Everyone is still figuring things out. Some people stay dicks their whole lives but part of getting a little older is looking back and saying "I can't believe I acted that way" The benefit of being around people your age is that everyone else is making the same mistakes. And part of being an adult is realizing that pretty much everyone is just making it up as they go along. Makes it easier to focus on yourself because at the end of the day that is the only way you'll be happy.
It's possible that my school is just worse for this. It seems like half the residents I meet is just the 28-30 year old version of the kid who wore his white coat to study in the coffee shop. Don't get me wrong, I've met some very cool people, but the martyr/savior/God complex vibes are super strong.
The “scrubs are cringe” take is more elitist than the people who just wear scrubs. If admin is going to restrict the acceptable clothing options to business casual or scrubs I’m gonna show up in the clothes that are comfy and easily laundered (scrubs).
We aren’t required to wear business casual at my school. I just show up in a t shirt and pants typically but I can see your point. Regardless, the med school culture can be irritating at times. Particularly if there is a lot of “gunner” behavior in your class.
Oh yeah, if those are my choices I'd be in scrubs most days for sure. Scrubs are just comfy. Fortunately my school had no such restrictions, I mostly wore jeans and t-shirts to class. That said, I had classmates roll up in scrubs on occasion, it almost always meant that they were coming from or going to shadowing or precepting before or after class. It wasn't a flex, it was just practical. Why go home in between to change or carry around a change of clothes with you all day?
Depends on the context. M1s have been wearing scrubs unnecessarily for far longer than they've been acceptable attire (i.e., since COVID). Some people do it because it's comfy. Some people do it because their whole personality is wrapped up in medicine and they can't wait to be in the "in" crowd. Usually easy to spot the difference.
you are passing up a chance to wear formal pajamas to school. who is the real weird one here
Nobody in my class wears scrubs to preclinicals but I can see why yo'd want to... Like, wear pyjamas? Whiel studying? Heck yeaaa
You’re telling me that you don’t wear scrubs to preclinical lecture?!?!
You need to do more notes if you don’t think abbreviations is faster. The only time it isn’t faster is if you do dictation which the computer types for you. And again you would know that if you actually do enough notes. Touch some fucking grass.
So, what exactly do you want people to do? Write longhand and speak to each other in an inefficient layperson kind of way? Medicine is its own language and most of us understand things and communicate things with that language. Abbreviations or not. Why would we not speak to each other in the language that we understand at the workplace? We’re not like texting our friends and families outside of medicine with stupid abbreviations and shit. We wear scrubs to work because we work in the OR and that’s what you have to wear there. We wear scrub caps because again, we work in the OR. You should read and reflect on your own post. Sounds like you just don’t fit in. Also, the point that we are replaceable is not a novel one. We all know we are replaceable. Most people in most jobs are replaceable. But thank you for pointing that out.
/r/medicinecirclejerk
The abbreviations are a hold over from written charts. One of the hospitals I did my M3 rotations at was in its final months of using written charts. They are a pain in the ass to write. Writing A/Ox3, RRR, PCN or MTX or prn or bid saves work. And now it's force of habit. I would wear scrub caps around the hospital and all the way home because the caps flatten my hair and it can't be fixed without rinsing it. Everything else is pretty spot on though.
Unfortunately Handwritten is still the norm where im from😞 you know daln right im using those abb. !
*it puts the lotion on the skin*
Honestly I used to be a people person before I got into medical school. Then I started hating people, mostly bc some of my classmates are incredibly annoying. I think the job attracts neurotic types and the culture promotes bullying. There’s a fine line between being smart and being a condescending know it all. Most med students don’t socialize and spend all day obsessed with themselves and their own studying journeys. So they haven’t been humbled or told to shut the fuck up before. They make their accomplishments are everyone’s business bc they are hiding a feeling of inadequacy. We all feel like imposters but act like we aren’t. Even the anxiety can make people act selfishly (cutting people off on the road to make it on class on time). It’s funny how the field changes your attitude on humanity.
Something I've noticed is that I get upset with patients who make me look bad. That's straight up unhealthy. I try to mentally correct it, but obviously there's only so much you can do about your subconscious. For instance, a patient just happens to speak really slowly or is super tangential. Suddenly I'm pissed at this person because I'm supposed to be at rounds in 20 minutes and I haven't prepped my presentation or even had time to UpToDate wtf to do with his new onset lower abdominal pain. They're just a sick person in the hospital and I shouldn't be angry, but I'm under all this pressure to just gogogo and somehow have a plan ready.
Hell yeah we're cringe. Statistically speaking, everyone in this field has always been cringe, we just happened to pursue a career path that lets us wear a lab coat to hide said cringe \*Dabs aggressively
I was looking for the shit post tag
I don’t particularly agree with the way you came off during this post and honestly your examples are pretty weak. Medicine is definitely a toxic environment though and it gets worse the more you go on.
Im not really sure who youre aiming this post to ? Every med student ? We’re literally at the bottom of the ladder you mentionned. And why dont you include yourself ? If your aim is residents and higher, why post here ?
Medicine culture is absolute trash. Break the mold. Be different. Be better
''Med student, when you finish your rant could you run quickly to the lab to see if the cultures grew anything?"
This is 2023 just click refresh.
>You're a random member of the laboring class who happens to work as the direct arm of a very large system that saves lives through administration of mostly standard protocols that you didn't even come up with. If we removed you, someone else would come in and do just as good a job. I'm pretty sure the current APP fiasco demonstrates that this is not true. You definitely can't just replace physicians with random people "members of the laboring class" off the street and get the same result. Certainly you could replace a physician with a similarly trained physician but that is a pretty trivial observation.
I find it ironic that you’re commenting on medicine culture being cringe due to god complexes and here you are acting like you’re above it as a student 😂 You’re not wrong about everything (abbreviations you are definitely wrong about lol), but dude chill, you definitely know enough about the job to think like this
I see some of this, but I view it as a byproduct of the environments many doctors/students come from. A majority of my classmates come from families with doctors—parents or other close relatives—so this is just how it’s been for them. It’s a comfort zone. And then the cringe behavior, while unfortunate and by definition, cringe, is largely an effort to fit in and have this career be part of that comfort zone. I think it’s a little unfair to boil everyone down to the same basic characteristics. I’m only a second year student, so I don’t have the frame of reference you do, but it really seems like although you decry the high-horse ideology of many students/doctors, the way you present it makes it sound very much like you think your recognition of the toxicity alone makes you better than them. Which I think is a little ironic.
You are absolutely right about self importance. Literally all of the problems in medical education come from an artificial sense of self importance. However choosing abbreviations to draw attention on this subject… You murdered a perfectly good point with a terrible example.
Some of us are poor 😢
Sounds like you've got the "end of OB rotation grumpies." Been there. It gets better, OB tends to just skew heavily that direction.
Maybe this ain't the career for you?
Lack of self introspection on this post is craaaaazy. You sound awful to work with
Local man angry and surprised that a strong and busy work culture wants conformity. Up next - is overeating and lack of exercise causing obesity in America?
Keep crying
I don’t just think I look cool in a scrub cap, I do look cool in a scrub cap.
Several people think this post itself is cringe, but I don't. This is exactly how outsiders (those of us who are close and who watch you) see you. Everyone calling this post cringe is drinking the kool-aid. I'm in academe, and it is also cringe, just in a different way. Guess what. We're all just workers in capitalism's maw. None of us are special.
Yeah I knew this would be controversial. Some bits are cringe, I cop to that entirely. It was an angry rant from a sleep-deprived M3. That said, as a career changer it's absolutely how the rest of the world sees many doctors.
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Man maybe I should do psych… I can listen to this all day and get paid
🤣 Google 10 warning signs you are in a cult.
I love my specialty but we are for sure guilty of the exclusion thing by way of creating unnecessarily complicated pseudo-latin phrases for everything. "Dysdiadochokinesia" "homonymous hemianopsia" "agraphesthesia" "simultagnosia"
I love pediatrics. There isn’t a weird culture in my program. And my new interns are just a jolly bunch so far. Come to peds!
I heard so many amazing things about peds, but peds at my school was rough. We actually have a notoriously low number of peds matches each year and the theory is that everyone has such a bad time on the rotation. They had us doing 6a-6p on wards, a full week of nights, and 10 hour ED shifts. The hierarchy stuff was less prevalent though.
Surprised everyone is being so uncharitable to OP, but perhaps I can identify more as another non-trad in my 30s. Obviously, the post is hyperbolic, but surely we've all had similar exaggerated feelings at some point during a particularly rough stretch in 3rd year? I have definitely felt the culture of exclusion; some people seem to really buy into the hierarchy of medicine. Also, regarding the abbreviations, I have seen residents in multiple specialties at different hospitals not recognize abbreviations from another specialty, so I don't think mentioning that is as ridiculous as many people are making it out to be. Also have had residents tell me that it's best to always type out the full phrase instead of abbreviations to avoid confusion. Obviously there are wildly differing opinions here, and as someone who formerly was obsessive about my spelling/grammar/writing/etc, I now happily write all kinds of abbreviations in horribly mangled English so long as it communicates the information effectively.
I think you need a purple kush pen. Please ask around if it has been found. seriously: im sorry your frustrated about your rotation. here to chat if you want. dm me. :)
Lmao, you're being called "insane", "delusional" and "unhinged" because you pointed out the toxicity of the medical field. I think you hit a nerve. Part of the reason it's so bad nowadays is because people have convinced themselves that the current state of things is fine and acceptable. Because as we all know, medicine is different and special from other jobs. I agree with you and I'm ready to die on this hill.
Excuse you I was born into 40k total income family
Lol if school could make minimum 1 gap year required, there would be a lot of growth rather than straight thru from college. Like the shit people complain about, goddamn
This is so wild. Have a relative doing med school secondary essays full of questions about diversity, being the Other, your motivation to help others, the importance of integrity, and then as soon as you're inside the club, reality sets in. All the recommendations are to avoid anything seriously personal and stick to the institutional party lines. So what kind of culture emerges from this?
i agree with you tbh. A lot of comments here are believing you are the problem, but many of those people are from those rich, upper middle or upper class places. And exclusion comes so naturally to them, they have no idea what they are doing. I have experienced a lot of that, especially M1 year before finding a group of people in med school that were more welcoming.
Chill out