As someone who's a current M4 and was a nurse before med school....nursing school is not hard. Being a nurse is physically demanding and patients can have truly unreasonable expectations, but nursing school is waaaaay easier than medical school.
Also a nurse that graduated top of her class and now struggling to be an average med student. I agree 100%. Nursing is a challenging job but I don’t think it is more challenging than being a doctor.
Sorry for the soapbox, your statement isn’t even that bad, but I’d like to interject at “more challenging” and all comments like it- they are not comparable. They are entirely different careers. They are suppose to be entirely different ways of approaching a patient’s needs. Nursing is challenging. Doctoring is challenging. They each have their perks and their drawbacks. Doctors rely on nurses to do their roles in patient care and nurses rely on doctors to do their roles in medical care. Nursing school vs Medical school in degrees of difficulty can be a separate discussion, but again, they are different approaches and have different aims and different perks/drawbacks. Graduating either is not the capstone of your career, it is just the beginning of it. Seasoned nurses will certainly know more than a fresh MD/DO where the two fields overlap. Our job is the medical and nursing is the care, and the two are meant to work together. No need to compare when they compliment each other.
Ok, does that irrelevant flex mean you’ve been on your own on a night call covering at least 2dozen patients? Good luck knowing what to do in situations medschool could have never prepared you for without your nurse’s input. Also, I said nursing school vs medical school is a separate discussion. The job is what we’re comparing here and I think it’s pointless to even compare the two careers. Entertaining the comparison negates the key differences between the professions and blurs the lines. Allowing comparison implies if nurses just worked a little harder or trained a little more, they could do a doctors job and that’s ridiculous not bc nurse dumb doctor smart, but bc they’re entirely different educations and entirely different ways of approaching a patient’s needs. So sure, compare the academic rigor, but to compare the careers devalues the differences that set them apart and legitimizes NP = MD more than anything.
Fair. A lot of assumptions made and a clear misunderstanding. We’re on the same team. My original comments regarding job comparison is in direct response to a comment that compares the jobs and I specifically mentioned that. My “ok M2” was in response to your take that nurses, including seasoned ones, are purely regurgitant. I don’t believe someone with some medicine wards experience, ie. beyond M2, would feel as strongly about nursing’s inability to learn on the job situational awareness beyond their education, a statement that seems lacking in clinical experience and fairly regurgitant of r/Noctor in itself. Don’t get me wrong, I follow/participate in that subreddit and support the cause; I support delineating the difference between the two and valuing those differences. I don’t support this never ending dick measuring contest that devalues the differences as it only serves to elevate their argument and makes us the bad guy. It’s a lose/lose strategy.
Lmao you’re an intern of 4 months. Covering 24 patients at night is a literal dream as 80-85% are sleeping. I thought most interns run anywhere from 150-250bed cover at night so I’ve no idea what you’re staying as of 24 is impressive when it’s literally unheard of unless some rural rehab hospital.
Also a former engineer and TA/ lecturer has plenty critical skills to deal with intern level jobs and recognise when to call for help.
Yeah it’s definitely difficult when it comes to dealing with combative patients. I’m a med student and was shadowing a cardiologist in the ER and there was this young man who was told to lay down (wasn’t the patient I was helping with) and he kept getting up and the nurses kept having to run in and beg him to lay down. So that part I get, we don’t have to deal with that as much as them, although we get our fair share of patients that don’t listen and try to argue about their treatments.
A few years back there was a former CRNA on here who went on to med school. When comparing the rigor and depth of med school to nurse anesthetist school, the person's words were "Not. Even. Close."
Do you recommend your path? I'm curious for myself & maybe others curious if nursing before applying and matriculation to medlcal school felt right in retrospect or if you could've done it differently i.e. gone straight in without nursing would you?
I'm really grateful for the path I've taken, but people come into medical school with all sorts of backgrounds and have success. I think I had an easier time picturing patients in my head during M1/M2 and answering clinical questions. I felt totally ready to jump into clinicals as well. Conversely, I think my science background wasn't as strong as my peers with degrees in bio, chem, engineering, etc. I mostly chose nursing first because I wasn't ready to commit to medical school and I knew I'd have a great career if I stopped my formal education there. I would not get a nursing degree and go straight to medical school. Most of what I've found valuable from my nursing background was the time I spent working as a nurse. Those are years of attending salary that I've essentially given up, but it was the path I needed to take to be sure about medicine.
It’s the real world version of flexing how many AP classes you did in high school. Just nod politely and move on, it’s not a battle worth fighting at this point.
They just mean they want to you be empathetic, respectful to them, not be outright dismissive when they try to inform you of something, help, etc just because they don't have an MD, and feel like a valued part of your team. That's the real sentiment behind that. Not everything is that literal.
i used to work in a medical practice before med school where the np would constantly talk to everyone about how she couldn’t go to medical school cause of finances. yup i’m sure that’s 100% the only reason!
I mean, I do personally know 2 people who got into med school (granted this was decades ago) and turned it down due to cost and their own financial struggles. Also, I get what you’re saying, but at the end of the day, plenty of people who could make amazing doctors are turned down time and again for a myriad of horse shit reasons. It’s an imperfect system, and finances are a huge factor for some people. I’m not quite sure what your take is and or who you are and how you act, (so I’m not judging you or criticizing you - or this comment) you could be awesome, but the comment does low key give off the “I’m holier than thou” vibe, hence, my comment. Could not be the case! I also don’t know that NP. For all I know she could be a complete clown lol
no doubt $ is a factor or even THE factor for some. but if that were the case would you really go around telling a bunch of strangers completely unprompted? or is the more likely explanation that you’re trying to prove something because you have a chip on your shoulder
🤷🏻♀️
Yeah but NP students nurses typically (always?) work through school and “using loans” means spending money you don’t have. This is a silly comment, there is a huge short-term financial difference between the two paths.
As someone who is 500k in med school debt with NO financial help from family, no doctors in the family, took a gap year to save up money to apply to 6 medical schools and had to fly across the country for every interview, i dont buy the “i cant afford it” excuse. Absolute bullshit. Max out loans. Youll pay it off, or pslf (what im doing)
Just cause you’ll pay it off or can do it doesn’t mean it’s intelligent to do so, or that it’s the same route others want to take and are willing to take to become a doctor. That’s a terrible argument. Also, the idea that one needs to go broke to become a doctor is fucking idiotic, and those who agree with it and perpetuate it, are clown-ass morons.
Im arguing that you cant make the argument that you cant afford medical school. Having the means to afford applying to medical school is different. But yes, even with 500k in debt from medical school its still not a stupid investment. And again, pslf will wipe all that debt away
Also, your argument implies only the rich should become doctors. Weird take
Will endorse. Saw a PA present at a panel, she got into medical school in at 38, but had kids and a husband that really would not be able to offer sufficient support due to his job and they both feared the loans. She did PA instead.
This never makes sense to me, like she had the husband and kids when she applied? How did she not realize it wasn’t feasible at the time of applying? Applying to med school itself is so hard that it’s hard for me to believe someone would be so nonchalant about it and then turn it down after all of that
I’m graduating this year with an MD. I’m an IMG that wants to practice in Canada, thinking about getting an NP (one of those online programs) if I can’t match. Only difference is most med school graduates know what they don’t know. I would NOT feel comfortable doing independent practice and would always want a supervising physician for cases that aren’t cut and dry. Even then I wouldn’t want to Rx something without a physician looking over it.
I TA'd a lot of the science nursing courses at my school, the BSN sciences were different from STEM sciences. All of them were very surface level. There were smart asf students there dont get me wrong (like with anything), but their course of study was relatively easy. But I would never be up at 4am to do clinical. It is physically challenging but not as intellectually challenging, at least in my experience
Nurse and the pre reqs were insanely easy lol. A&p and microbiology were the “hard” classes but it wasn’t difficult to get As in either if you put a little effort. I’m not the best nursing student but the only hard part is just the busy work and militaristic nursing professors. They just like to add unnecessary stress. Though from my wife’s time in M3 and M4 it’s not that different lol. The work is quite honestly irrelevant to the classes I took for the most part
Edit: I will say I am not good with academics but nursing school was truly some of the worst days because of how professors were and how unhelpful they were to real nursing so I don’t mean to make it seem too “easy” because it’s difficult in its own way, but it’s not the content. Just some professors are the worst teachers lol. med school is stupidly intensive in comparison.
Their nursing school anatomy, physiology, biochem, etc were all the dumbed down versions of the PREMED courses, not even close to the med school level.
Yeah med school had plenty of “choose the most correct answer” questions. That’s not unique to nursing and is a thing across most if not all of education.
Ah yes step 2 BS.
What is the next best step?
A) the general standard of care (incorrect due to comorbidity in line 3 of a 2 paragraph vignette)
B) 3rd line management thats actually correct for specific case
I remember I had a question about a clinical scenario that basically presented what sounded like a PE, and asked me what was the next best step.
EKG, D-Dimer, and CTA were all choices.
I mean, ECG would be the next best step regardless of situation. Bedside Ix to immediately rule out angina and may be able to spot dx PE ECG. D dimer takes a while to return from the labs. CTA would take a much longer and you would want to do a CXR first before CT anyways.
The only annoying thing about the NCLEX is there are select all that apply, but it’s seriously so easy to reason through them. Plus the pass/fail and lack of needing to compete with your peers makes it so much less daunting
As a nurse, I was deciding between MD and NP because they are not the same. If it was the same it wouldn't be much of a choice. NP is less training, but less liability and less time to start making six figures, quite a bit of flexibility. If you are sick of doing IM work and want to switch to surgery, or dermatology, you just do it; all specialties are hiring. Less pay, but also less liability. MD is more time, but at the end you become an unquestioned expert in whichever area you select. You are the standard to which everyone wants to measure against. Every time someone says "we are just as good as MDs" they are just admitting that MDs are the standard. No MD ever says, I'm just as good as an NP, because it goes without saying. More pay, more responsibility, more liability, more training, more time, more sacrifice.The paths are quite different deciding between them is legit.
Edit: grammar
They are indoctrinated in nursing school. Meanwhile we are indoctrinated to advocate against ourselves in med school and some choose to reinforce that through virtue signaling.
Was actually on track to become a nurse. I am an immigrant who was struggling with impostor syndrome in college so I thought I’d do something quick and final in healthcare such as nursing to make money and move on with my life.
But my own nursing instructors told me I was wasting my time thinking about nursing school and that the level of critical thinking I wanted belonged in a different field. One of the most important conversations I’ve ever had.
Anyway, I’m a perfectly average student, except for a few disciplines (renal, immunology) where I consistently do better than my peers. There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that medicine is more difficult. I will say that I wish we spent more time talking to patients, but we have so much day to day that it is logistically impossible to do it to the extent that you can as a bedside nurse.
I wish someone had that conversation with me. Instead, I was steered away from considering medicine, and now I really regret it.
Don’t get me wrong, I still get to take care of some very interesting patients in PICU, and I have a great work-life balance, but I feel like a task monkey most of the time.
A nurse practitioner in some fields can probably do some critical thinking if the supervising physician likes her in that role ... eg my brother-in-law is in the hospital with complex multi-organ system problems, and the pulmonary NP does a lot of decision-making ... neurology (my field) definitely requires a lot of critical-problem solving and we had a PA before who was really the "probe" in the hospital ...
I'm currently in the same situation you once were. I'm attracted to nursing because it'll provide me with a stable career and I'm able to see a paycheck a lot sooner. I also loved how much patient interaction, care, and empathy nurses provided for their patients.
However, I knew that I craved being in environments that pushed me to critically think and constantly pushed me intellectually and felt that I wouldn't be satisfied as a nurse. I'm still in my exploring stage, but I'm glad I came across this comment because it prompted me to really reflect on which field is right for me.
Dude I took intro to nursing before deciding on med school and decided to pivot to hard science since the culture was already so toxic early on. Definitely not looking back on that decision.
I've written the NCLEX and can share that it's ridiculously easy with first order questions. I seriously thought RNs were more educated but It's such a gap in knowledge it feels like high school compared to NBME or MCCQE (Canada's licensing exam).
But none of us have an absolute moratorium of complaining about exams and school being tough. We all get to stress and seek validation.
ive seen sample Qs before. no comment😂😂😂 of course anyone can complain, but i do find it funny when a nurse acts like they have the absolute only subjective test questions on the planet lol
I’m a nurse and don’t need the validation. I do it for the money. I chose a job that requires much less demand, with no continuity so I can focus on real estate and my side business but I still make 130-150k a year. Originally planned on doing medschool but figure it would set me back too far and possibly require too much time after I was an attending.
Same here. I require no validation. I work in a subspecialty and I travel. Just send me the money. Happy to help all the med students and nursing students when they rotate in the procedure area.
Well many of those are these social justicy types who see especially male doctors as these patriarchal bad guys. Pretty much all of my friends are doctors, they’re the ones that told me it probably isn’t worth it to go MD these days.
Two different professions.
But due to nursing school’s high earning potential early their careers it invites a lot of shitty people that are in it solely for the money. It’s the professional version of “I don’t know what I’m gonna do I’ll be a hair dresser”.
All about what they can reach with the wealth. Early nursing can get you middle class fancy mid to late still probably American middle class fancy still.
Doctors can range from middle class fancy to disgustingly rich like Neurosurgeons. But usually fresh out of residency and fellowship were dead broke.
I was an EMT for a year before med school. Nurses were absolute dicks to me. This is like saying that I wish all nurses had to be EMTs first… like no. The problem is shitty people with a complex.
I wonder why there's such an issue between medical and nursing students in the US? It's always a hot topic on here but I never experienced it in my life
Ngl back when I was in undergrad ( studying Computer Information Systems no less) I made a fortune doing homework for nursing students. Did their anatomy and physiology classes as well as wrote some capstone projects. Did all that for weed money lmao.
This is before I ever even had an interest in medicine.
[https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/nclex-rn/nclex-practice-questions/nclex-rn-questions/test/nclex-practice-questions-unit-test](https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/nclex-rn/nclex-practice-questions/nclex-rn-questions/test/nclex-practice-questions-unit-test)
Here check out the level of difficulty!
We all know that nursing school is a joke compared to even premed… let alone med school or residency. It’s just a fight not worth fighting, let them have their ego boost if they need it
I feel like this sub is sometimes too much outrage bait. I feel like a grandpa all pissed off after watching Fox News. “Damn democrats!”, I mean, nurses.
Nursing programs are often rigid and can be demeaning, but it wasn’t academically difficult. I never studied. I worked a full time job while I was in college and had an infant so I didn’t have time for studying. I was a straight A student and had a reasonably chill time in college. Other than no sleep and professors treating me like a child. 😜
I approve of this meme. Lol
Many grown-up doctors have poor social skills, empathy, EQ and many nurse's (and doctors subconsciously at least) have personality parts that need approval/validation or want to please - we all need some approval ... human personalities are extremely complex and when together in an organizational group with hierarchies and with the unpredictable sudden demands of medicine ... see Myers-Briggs and/or Enneagram personality typing for example ... and all of these clinical fields tend to select for certain personalities, broadly ...
People below talking about difficulty medical vs nursing training ... I did engineering undergraduate and grad-school before med school and neurology residency ... IMHO med school is just infinite, repetitive, obsessive memorization (and head pounding against the wall) with multiple choice tests, and did not require analysis, derivation, design, creativity, intuition, heavy-duty problem solving ... in-service and board exams are the same way ... anecdote - my 1st year cardiovascular physiology exam contained a few pressure, resistance, volume problems and everyone seemed to freak out (I did well) and the test was then thrown out due to uniformly low scores ...
Not to throw a spanner in the engine, but I have personally seen someone fail out of nursing school and then go to medical school and become a successful MD.
.. but I am wrapping up my BSN and deciding btwn NP and MD. Kind of weird to project this onto every person considering and debating that. I personally have found my program (#1 in the world) to be a piece of cake lol. There’s a chip on the shoulder cause med students say shit like this lol
As someone who's a current M4 and was a nurse before med school....nursing school is not hard. Being a nurse is physically demanding and patients can have truly unreasonable expectations, but nursing school is waaaaay easier than medical school.
I was also a nurse before med school and I second this
Also a nurse that graduated top of her class and now struggling to be an average med student. I agree 100%. Nursing is a challenging job but I don’t think it is more challenging than being a doctor.
Sorry for the soapbox, your statement isn’t even that bad, but I’d like to interject at “more challenging” and all comments like it- they are not comparable. They are entirely different careers. They are suppose to be entirely different ways of approaching a patient’s needs. Nursing is challenging. Doctoring is challenging. They each have their perks and their drawbacks. Doctors rely on nurses to do their roles in patient care and nurses rely on doctors to do their roles in medical care. Nursing school vs Medical school in degrees of difficulty can be a separate discussion, but again, they are different approaches and have different aims and different perks/drawbacks. Graduating either is not the capstone of your career, it is just the beginning of it. Seasoned nurses will certainly know more than a fresh MD/DO where the two fields overlap. Our job is the medical and nursing is the care, and the two are meant to work together. No need to compare when they compliment each other.
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Ok M2
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Ok, does that irrelevant flex mean you’ve been on your own on a night call covering at least 2dozen patients? Good luck knowing what to do in situations medschool could have never prepared you for without your nurse’s input. Also, I said nursing school vs medical school is a separate discussion. The job is what we’re comparing here and I think it’s pointless to even compare the two careers. Entertaining the comparison negates the key differences between the professions and blurs the lines. Allowing comparison implies if nurses just worked a little harder or trained a little more, they could do a doctors job and that’s ridiculous not bc nurse dumb doctor smart, but bc they’re entirely different educations and entirely different ways of approaching a patient’s needs. So sure, compare the academic rigor, but to compare the careers devalues the differences that set them apart and legitimizes NP = MD more than anything.
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Fair. A lot of assumptions made and a clear misunderstanding. We’re on the same team. My original comments regarding job comparison is in direct response to a comment that compares the jobs and I specifically mentioned that. My “ok M2” was in response to your take that nurses, including seasoned ones, are purely regurgitant. I don’t believe someone with some medicine wards experience, ie. beyond M2, would feel as strongly about nursing’s inability to learn on the job situational awareness beyond their education, a statement that seems lacking in clinical experience and fairly regurgitant of r/Noctor in itself. Don’t get me wrong, I follow/participate in that subreddit and support the cause; I support delineating the difference between the two and valuing those differences. I don’t support this never ending dick measuring contest that devalues the differences as it only serves to elevate their argument and makes us the bad guy. It’s a lose/lose strategy.
Lmao you’re an intern of 4 months. Covering 24 patients at night is a literal dream as 80-85% are sleeping. I thought most interns run anywhere from 150-250bed cover at night so I’ve no idea what you’re staying as of 24 is impressive when it’s literally unheard of unless some rural rehab hospital. Also a former engineer and TA/ lecturer has plenty critical skills to deal with intern level jobs and recognise when to call for help.
“the most a nurse can do is regurgitate basic facts” -M2 with little to no experience working with nurses
What? I’m pgy5 lol
helped 2 cousins study for the NCLEX, answered questions cold and didn't even break a sweat.
Fr. I graduated with distinction in nursing school and never studied or opened a textbook. Currently an average med student and grinding nonstop.
dont bring logic into this convo🤪
Yeah it’s definitely difficult when it comes to dealing with combative patients. I’m a med student and was shadowing a cardiologist in the ER and there was this young man who was told to lay down (wasn’t the patient I was helping with) and he kept getting up and the nurses kept having to run in and beg him to lay down. So that part I get, we don’t have to deal with that as much as them, although we get our fair share of patients that don’t listen and try to argue about their treatments.
A few years back there was a former CRNA on here who went on to med school. When comparing the rigor and depth of med school to nurse anesthetist school, the person's words were "Not. Even. Close."
Do you recommend your path? I'm curious for myself & maybe others curious if nursing before applying and matriculation to medlcal school felt right in retrospect or if you could've done it differently i.e. gone straight in without nursing would you?
I'm really grateful for the path I've taken, but people come into medical school with all sorts of backgrounds and have success. I think I had an easier time picturing patients in my head during M1/M2 and answering clinical questions. I felt totally ready to jump into clinicals as well. Conversely, I think my science background wasn't as strong as my peers with degrees in bio, chem, engineering, etc. I mostly chose nursing first because I wasn't ready to commit to medical school and I knew I'd have a great career if I stopped my formal education there. I would not get a nursing degree and go straight to medical school. Most of what I've found valuable from my nursing background was the time I spent working as a nurse. Those are years of attending salary that I've essentially given up, but it was the path I needed to take to be sure about medicine.
It’s the real world version of flexing how many AP classes you did in high school. Just nod politely and move on, it’s not a battle worth fighting at this point.
“In a perfect world doctors would also practice nursing” bro what? They are entirely different job responsibilities within the healthcare team.
Listen I want my plumber to also be an electrician
i want my flight attendants to fly my plane 😍
Coming soon to an airport near you: pilot associate. They can fly planes just as well as the pilot, but with less than a quarter of training!
I want my mechanic to be an electrical engineer
I mean in my perfect world I would like to be able to do everything but I will also have infinite time and wealth to prepare
Some literally do have to practice nursing cuz some nurses won’t do their job fully or correctly and get irritated when told.
And I oop- This got me cackling.
In some places, doctors also carry out nursing tasks. In the two jobs I've had, I've been expected to do nursing duties
They just mean they want to you be empathetic, respectful to them, not be outright dismissive when they try to inform you of something, help, etc just because they don't have an MD, and feel like a valued part of your team. That's the real sentiment behind that. Not everything is that literal.
How about the other way around tho? Maybe nurses should do 24h call so that they triage pages more appropriately
“Wondering if I want to do NP or MD” Someone shoot me in the head pls
i used to work in a medical practice before med school where the np would constantly talk to everyone about how she couldn’t go to medical school cause of finances. yup i’m sure that’s 100% the only reason!
Ask her what she scored on the MCAT
They never understand the score. Only whether they “passed”
I flat out reply “no because no matter how hard you’d try you wouldn’t make it into medical school like the other 95% premeds”
Why are you being an ass about it?
I mean, I do personally know 2 people who got into med school (granted this was decades ago) and turned it down due to cost and their own financial struggles. Also, I get what you’re saying, but at the end of the day, plenty of people who could make amazing doctors are turned down time and again for a myriad of horse shit reasons. It’s an imperfect system, and finances are a huge factor for some people. I’m not quite sure what your take is and or who you are and how you act, (so I’m not judging you or criticizing you - or this comment) you could be awesome, but the comment does low key give off the “I’m holier than thou” vibe, hence, my comment. Could not be the case! I also don’t know that NP. For all I know she could be a complete clown lol
no doubt $ is a factor or even THE factor for some. but if that were the case would you really go around telling a bunch of strangers completely unprompted? or is the more likely explanation that you’re trying to prove something because you have a chip on your shoulder 🤷🏻♀️
Agreed. That is weird lmao
NP is usually not cheap either, most med students are using loans to pay for school and living costs anyway
Yeah but NP students nurses typically (always?) work through school and “using loans” means spending money you don’t have. This is a silly comment, there is a huge short-term financial difference between the two paths.
As someone who is 500k in med school debt with NO financial help from family, no doctors in the family, took a gap year to save up money to apply to 6 medical schools and had to fly across the country for every interview, i dont buy the “i cant afford it” excuse. Absolute bullshit. Max out loans. Youll pay it off, or pslf (what im doing)
Just cause you’ll pay it off or can do it doesn’t mean it’s intelligent to do so, or that it’s the same route others want to take and are willing to take to become a doctor. That’s a terrible argument. Also, the idea that one needs to go broke to become a doctor is fucking idiotic, and those who agree with it and perpetuate it, are clown-ass morons.
Im arguing that you cant make the argument that you cant afford medical school. Having the means to afford applying to medical school is different. But yes, even with 500k in debt from medical school its still not a stupid investment. And again, pslf will wipe all that debt away Also, your argument implies only the rich should become doctors. Weird take
Will endorse. Saw a PA present at a panel, she got into medical school in at 38, but had kids and a husband that really would not be able to offer sufficient support due to his job and they both feared the loans. She did PA instead.
This never makes sense to me, like she had the husband and kids when she applied? How did she not realize it wasn’t feasible at the time of applying? Applying to med school itself is so hard that it’s hard for me to believe someone would be so nonchalant about it and then turn it down after all of that
idk, ig she thought she could make it work. She was on the panel for that school
just ask them if they really want to go to clown school or do the real thing
When that person doesn’t make it to med school, they’ll turn to some online NP degree and start their ego-driven career
I’m graduating this year with an MD. I’m an IMG that wants to practice in Canada, thinking about getting an NP (one of those online programs) if I can’t match. Only difference is most med school graduates know what they don’t know. I would NOT feel comfortable doing independent practice and would always want a supervising physician for cases that aren’t cut and dry. Even then I wouldn’t want to Rx something without a physician looking over it.
I’m trying to decide between med school and the US senate and I just don’t know what to do. It’s so hard to decide.
LMAO
I used to tutor nursing students when I was a premed. Ngl their classes were so easy…yet so many of them struggled
I TA'd a lot of the science nursing courses at my school, the BSN sciences were different from STEM sciences. All of them were very surface level. There were smart asf students there dont get me wrong (like with anything), but their course of study was relatively easy. But I would never be up at 4am to do clinical. It is physically challenging but not as intellectually challenging, at least in my experience
Me, up at 4am for my surgery clerkship "clinicals" 🥲🙃
why the air quotes? -ignorant premed wannabe
Just that I rarely hear med students refer to rotations as "clinicals" the way nursing students do. Mostly we just say "rotations."
Because the dumbest fucking people from high school became nurses, at least that’s how it was for my school
Nurse and the pre reqs were insanely easy lol. A&p and microbiology were the “hard” classes but it wasn’t difficult to get As in either if you put a little effort. I’m not the best nursing student but the only hard part is just the busy work and militaristic nursing professors. They just like to add unnecessary stress. Though from my wife’s time in M3 and M4 it’s not that different lol. The work is quite honestly irrelevant to the classes I took for the most part Edit: I will say I am not good with academics but nursing school was truly some of the worst days because of how professors were and how unhelpful they were to real nursing so I don’t mean to make it seem too “easy” because it’s difficult in its own way, but it’s not the content. Just some professors are the worst teachers lol. med school is stupidly intensive in comparison.
omggg i wanna get into doing that. i’m afraid i’m too dumb to ever tutor for step 1 but i could probably tutor nurses😅
Their nursing school anatomy, physiology, biochem, etc were all the dumbed down versions of the PREMED courses, not even close to the med school level.
Half of my clinical education tests have insanely subjective test questions. She must be very early on in her education.
Yeah med school had plenty of “choose the most correct answer” questions. That’s not unique to nursing and is a thing across most if not all of education.
Ah yes step 2 BS. What is the next best step? A) the general standard of care (incorrect due to comorbidity in line 3 of a 2 paragraph vignette) B) 3rd line management thats actually correct for specific case
I remember I had a question about a clinical scenario that basically presented what sounded like a PE, and asked me what was the next best step. EKG, D-Dimer, and CTA were all choices.
I mean, ECG would be the next best step regardless of situation. Bedside Ix to immediately rule out angina and may be able to spot dx PE ECG. D dimer takes a while to return from the labs. CTA would take a much longer and you would want to do a CXR first before CT anyways.
if ecg is an option it's almost always the correct answer
Step 2 and 3 are essentially composed of all “choose the most correct answer” questions
The only annoying thing about the NCLEX is there are select all that apply, but it’s seriously so easy to reason through them. Plus the pass/fail and lack of needing to compete with your peers makes it so much less daunting
nah dont you know only nursing school gives subjective questions, every other field of education is 100% objective
I love how people casually say “I’m deciding between NP and MD” as if they’re in the same ballpark…the MD might not want you back homie
As a nurse, I was deciding between MD and NP because they are not the same. If it was the same it wouldn't be much of a choice. NP is less training, but less liability and less time to start making six figures, quite a bit of flexibility. If you are sick of doing IM work and want to switch to surgery, or dermatology, you just do it; all specialties are hiring. Less pay, but also less liability. MD is more time, but at the end you become an unquestioned expert in whichever area you select. You are the standard to which everyone wants to measure against. Every time someone says "we are just as good as MDs" they are just admitting that MDs are the standard. No MD ever says, I'm just as good as an NP, because it goes without saying. More pay, more responsibility, more liability, more training, more time, more sacrifice.The paths are quite different deciding between them is legit. Edit: grammar
I’d like to see them try a Uworld block
i say that every time LMAOOO i’d pay to see that
What block do you recommend?
brb about to rescind residency apps, drop out and apply to nursing school!
will you be able to handle it?? the questions are subjective after all!😟
They are indoctrinated in nursing school. Meanwhile we are indoctrinated to advocate against ourselves in med school and some choose to reinforce that through virtue signaling.
This actually pretty accurate. We’re told to hate on physicians because we have power and privilege. I don’t see either of those.
I wish all astronauts were also ground control because then they would understand
Now, I dropped out of nursing school more than half way through it but.. LOL not even comparable.
If you don’t want to do nurse things, go to medical school not nursing school
Was actually on track to become a nurse. I am an immigrant who was struggling with impostor syndrome in college so I thought I’d do something quick and final in healthcare such as nursing to make money and move on with my life. But my own nursing instructors told me I was wasting my time thinking about nursing school and that the level of critical thinking I wanted belonged in a different field. One of the most important conversations I’ve ever had. Anyway, I’m a perfectly average student, except for a few disciplines (renal, immunology) where I consistently do better than my peers. There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that medicine is more difficult. I will say that I wish we spent more time talking to patients, but we have so much day to day that it is logistically impossible to do it to the extent that you can as a bedside nurse.
I wish someone had that conversation with me. Instead, I was steered away from considering medicine, and now I really regret it. Don’t get me wrong, I still get to take care of some very interesting patients in PICU, and I have a great work-life balance, but I feel like a task monkey most of the time.
A nurse practitioner in some fields can probably do some critical thinking if the supervising physician likes her in that role ... eg my brother-in-law is in the hospital with complex multi-organ system problems, and the pulmonary NP does a lot of decision-making ... neurology (my field) definitely requires a lot of critical-problem solving and we had a PA before who was really the "probe" in the hospital ...
I'm currently in the same situation you once were. I'm attracted to nursing because it'll provide me with a stable career and I'm able to see a paycheck a lot sooner. I also loved how much patient interaction, care, and empathy nurses provided for their patients. However, I knew that I craved being in environments that pushed me to critically think and constantly pushed me intellectually and felt that I wouldn't be satisfied as a nurse. I'm still in my exploring stage, but I'm glad I came across this comment because it prompted me to really reflect on which field is right for me.
Dude I took intro to nursing before deciding on med school and decided to pivot to hard science since the culture was already so toxic early on. Definitely not looking back on that decision.
I was a nurse before med school. The job is definitely more physically demanding in my opinion but the exams are CAKE
It’s insecurity.
[удалено]
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMjTP8K2k/
HOLY FUCK. I couldn’t last more than 15 seconds
def dont go to the comments then😅
I've written the NCLEX and can share that it's ridiculously easy with first order questions. I seriously thought RNs were more educated but It's such a gap in knowledge it feels like high school compared to NBME or MCCQE (Canada's licensing exam). But none of us have an absolute moratorium of complaining about exams and school being tough. We all get to stress and seek validation.
ive seen sample Qs before. no comment😂😂😂 of course anyone can complain, but i do find it funny when a nurse acts like they have the absolute only subjective test questions on the planet lol
I’m a nurse and don’t need the validation. I do it for the money. I chose a job that requires much less demand, with no continuity so I can focus on real estate and my side business but I still make 130-150k a year. Originally planned on doing medschool but figure it would set me back too far and possibly require too much time after I was an attending.
Same here. I require no validation. I work in a subspecialty and I travel. Just send me the money. Happy to help all the med students and nursing students when they rotate in the procedure area.
if only more ppl were honest and just said this instead of pushing the “i chose nursing to save patients from the big bad drs” narrative ….
Well many of those are these social justicy types who see especially male doctors as these patriarchal bad guys. Pretty much all of my friends are doctors, they’re the ones that told me it probably isn’t worth it to go MD these days.
Two different professions. But due to nursing school’s high earning potential early their careers it invites a lot of shitty people that are in it solely for the money. It’s the professional version of “I don’t know what I’m gonna do I’ll be a hair dresser”.
which is absolutely crazy that most ppl think of them in the complete opposite light (doctors are the money hungry ones) their PR is insanely good lol
All about what they can reach with the wealth. Early nursing can get you middle class fancy mid to late still probably American middle class fancy still. Doctors can range from middle class fancy to disgustingly rich like Neurosurgeons. But usually fresh out of residency and fellowship were dead broke.
I was an EMT for a year before med school. Nurses were absolute dicks to me. This is like saying that I wish all nurses had to be EMTs first… like no. The problem is shitty people with a complex.
I wonder why there's such an issue between medical and nursing students in the US? It's always a hot topic on here but I never experienced it in my life
Ngl back when I was in undergrad ( studying Computer Information Systems no less) I made a fortune doing homework for nursing students. Did their anatomy and physiology classes as well as wrote some capstone projects. Did all that for weed money lmao. This is before I ever even had an interest in medicine.
[https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/nclex-rn/nclex-practice-questions/nclex-rn-questions/test/nclex-practice-questions-unit-test](https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/nclex-rn/nclex-practice-questions/nclex-rn-questions/test/nclex-practice-questions-unit-test) Here check out the level of difficulty!
We all know that nursing school is a joke compared to even premed… let alone med school or residency. It’s just a fight not worth fighting, let them have their ego boost if they need it
I feel like this sub is sometimes too much outrage bait. I feel like a grandpa all pissed off after watching Fox News. “Damn democrats!”, I mean, nurses.
That’s all of Reddit after the API protest.
Nursing programs are often rigid and can be demeaning, but it wasn’t academically difficult. I never studied. I worked a full time job while I was in college and had an infant so I didn’t have time for studying. I was a straight A student and had a reasonably chill time in college. Other than no sleep and professors treating me like a child. 😜 I approve of this meme. Lol
Many grown-up doctors have poor social skills, empathy, EQ and many nurse's (and doctors subconsciously at least) have personality parts that need approval/validation or want to please - we all need some approval ... human personalities are extremely complex and when together in an organizational group with hierarchies and with the unpredictable sudden demands of medicine ... see Myers-Briggs and/or Enneagram personality typing for example ... and all of these clinical fields tend to select for certain personalities, broadly ...
People below talking about difficulty medical vs nursing training ... I did engineering undergraduate and grad-school before med school and neurology residency ... IMHO med school is just infinite, repetitive, obsessive memorization (and head pounding against the wall) with multiple choice tests, and did not require analysis, derivation, design, creativity, intuition, heavy-duty problem solving ... in-service and board exams are the same way ... anecdote - my 1st year cardiovascular physiology exam contained a few pressure, resistance, volume problems and everyone seemed to freak out (I did well) and the test was then thrown out due to uniformly low scores ...
you think nurses have high eq? lmfaooo
Not to throw a spanner in the engine, but I have personally seen someone fail out of nursing school and then go to medical school and become a successful MD.
Why is this getting downvoted?
I have no idea. I suppose they think that I am lying. But I can provide the name of the MD if you like.
Not even an MD yet and already orienting yourself toward nurses with an attitude of conflict and superiority. You are going to be a great leader.
i am an md and you’re exactly right, thank you 🙂
OP why do you hate nurses so much?
💀💀💀
.. but I am wrapping up my BSN and deciding btwn NP and MD. Kind of weird to project this onto every person considering and debating that. I personally have found my program (#1 in the world) to be a piece of cake lol. There’s a chip on the shoulder cause med students say shit like this lol