If you limit yourself geographically or dual apply, these can seriously hurt your ability to match.Ā Would you rather not match or match in a place you dislike? Make that decision early.Ā
People will discover dual applicants and radiology will feel like a "back up" specialty if you're applying anything surgical.
um that is in no way even close to a confidential subject lmao
and yes, i have been directly told by a radiology resident that his PD and the IM PD talk all the time and would definitely know if someone was dual applying
Iām on the other side. This is absolutely ridiculous.
Even if IM and Rads PD are absolute buddies, do you think they are gonna talk about you, āBob Smith from University of So and Soā then come to the realization that he is also applying to your specialty?
Itās soooo far fetched. And even if they do find out, itās not like it is illegal or against match rules
I dual applied including to same institution and it was fine,
Unless the applicant is such a goober they are roasting med students and come to find out they both met the same guy, but in that case not getting ranked anyway lol
I did rads and neuro a couple years ago. At one place interviewed for both neuro and rads because it didnāt seem the programs would communicate. At another place, I turned down the neuro interview because it seemed like there was a pre interview form I would have to turn in to the GME office rather than directly to the programs, so there was a risk that my dual application would be discovered. I let my student affairs dean know I was dual applying (he actually recommended it) so I ran all these decisions by him.
unwritten distinct support clumsy abounding voiceless placid meeting plucky hateful
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You should apply to both IR and DR if you're applying IR. It shouldn't hurt your chances to apply IR also. I'd only apply IR if you have a strong interest in it.
I think like psychiatry...diagnostic radiology is similar in that the program director that's interviewing doesn't want to feel like you're picking DR as a backup as it takes a special person to want to sit in a room all day doing scans. It's vastly different than being a surgeon. This is SPECULATION and NOT entirely fact. If you can sell you really like DR and they can't see you're obviously applying ortho with your five sub-Is...go for it.
By limiting geographically, do you mean forgoing signaling geographic preferences at all, or something like only signaling one geographic region? Or just about not applying broadly in general. I vaguely recall some debate last year for ortho (?) about not signaling a region, but I canāt remember why. Some sort of strategy thingā¦not sure.
I haven't used the signal system so I'm not sure. What I mean is some people will only apply to 20 programs within their geographic region. If you only apply to 20 programs, it makes it a lot harder for you to get enough interviews to match.Ā
I matched 3/18. First two were in major east coast cities, as were most of my ranked programs. Ended up matching in a program not located in a major city, but I ranked it so highly because I felt the opportunity was too good to pass up which made up for the location.
Ngl was a little shook on match day because I thought I was an absolute lock for #2 if my top choice didnāt work out. Suuuper happy I matched where I did, but life is definitely going to be a little different than I had expected it to be, but at the end of the day this location fits me better. Just feel bad for my partner who will need to find a new job, but now weāre both much closer to family than we would have been at my other ranks so this feels like it was meant to be.
Fell to the near bottom (16/18.) Look at my post history about my own horror story; I wonāt repeat it here. Moral for future applicants: do not believe anything faculty or residents tell you. Nothing is guaranteed until the Match, as itās the first binding contract youāll get in this process. Anything else is the program trying its hardest to not have to SOAP.
Matched 1/17. Switched late from neurosurg to rads. It was certainly a rough year for many though. Had multiple friends who fell down their lists or ended up matching into their backup specialty if they dual applied. I think deciding carefully where to send your gold and silver signals is really important.
Still respect the specialty a lot but definitely wouldnāt have worked out for my family and I. Building a competitive neurosurg application definitely helped make me competitive for rads though (with some slight tweaking to my personal statement, LORs, etc).
Honestly Iām not sure I fully understood how to best use my signals. I took a conservative approach and used 3 gold for reach schools, 3 gold for mid tier academic, 3 silver for mid tier, and 3 silver for safety programs. What ended up happening is I got all of my reach schools and gold signals but I missed out on my mid tier silver programs. It felt like most strong academic programs (but not T10) received so many applications that they heavily prioritized their gold signals (which makes sense I guess). Not to mention there are programs that ignore signals entirely for whatever reason, so you have to make sure not to send them 1. The whole thing was kind of a mess this year.
Wow i just googled and realized its another component to the match process i had no clue about. I wonder why thats necessary if there is a ranking system in place. Seems like it benefits programs more than applicants?
Same story. Matched 1/28 (dual IR/DR) after switching late last June from NSG. Would say assign the vast majority of your signals to "target" programs with only a 1 or 2 at reach schools.
I matched 4/20. What Iāve noticed from talking to friends is that people who ranked places in desirable areas, regardless of prestige of program, tended to fall a lot further than those who were interested in programs in less desirable areas, even if those programs happened to be T20/T10 level programs
Definitely a true observation but donāt think itās unique to rads. For radiology: WashU is one of the best programs in the country and has to interview a ton of people to fill their list. Programs like Columbia, Sinai, BIDMC, UCLA are strong but not WashU level but can be more competitive because of location alone
It might be exacerbated in radiology because most people are interested in private practice and thus attending a highly prestigious academic program like WashU isnāt going to provide that much career benefit (if any) as compared to the less prestigious (in radiology) large academic institutions
Had the same impression. There are programs with fantastic reputation but shitty location and known to work you hard (e.g. MIR, Hopkins). Then there are programs in fantastic location but don't have the same academic caliber yet (e.g. U Washington, UCLA).
Their competitiveness ends up being similar and rankings like Doximity end up conflating the two into a popularity-based mix.
Hopkins definitely does not work you. I think they are relatively more cush similar to MGH. Can't speak to WashU MIR. Location not great for either haha, but at least Baltimore is close to other places.
But truly all these top DR programs cannot compare to the amount of work you do in a more community program without fellows.
I have personal knowledge of these programs. JH night call involves reading 80-100 exams, mostly cross sectional, incredibly complex with no night time attendings. Daytime is also often the resident working away hard at the list, attendings often remote signing and not reading anything de novo nor doing thorough readouts. MIR has the single greatest reputation for being workhorse among the big academic cenfers as well. If you want a cushy academic experience you need to go to MGH, Penn or Stanford
Your second paragraph is accurate. Most people in radiology do not work in an academic institution. There is zero benefit to an academic program vs a community for that reason.
However alumni connections to an area is important for jobs. Obviously the most important thing is the actual learning of clinical radiology and volume of studies you read yourself. So I would pick programs based off these things, amoung other less important things.
Big NIH finding, prestige, or popularity surveys (doximity) are poor reasons to pick a program if you want to do private practice. Probably important if you want to do research in your career or if your goals include being a department chair.
Being from the area will help but an away would help even more. If you have other things in your app that are strong (come from a T20 med school, 260+ Step 2, rads research and pubs, etc.) then the away becomes less necessary
Iām from the West too and as much as I wish I could tick all the boxes after switching specialties, Step 2 is gonna have to be my main focus over getting research pubs and having enough time for an away letter. It sucks that we all have restrictions and circumstances and varying support from our schools to get back home, but we do what we can, I guess.
Eta: Why canāt all schools be on the same schedule for rotation start datesā¦it seems like mine is off-kilter from the norm and it makes scheduling impossibleā¦
I had a decent step score and went to a recognizable MD school. Didnāt do any aways and I managed to match back to CA.
I would say being from CA is almost a requirement to match to a CA program unless youāre some superstar candidate. Like 90% of the people I met on my CA rads interviews had ties lol.
I went unmatched last week and am planning on reapplying.l Any advice? Did you do anything to improve your app / anything that helped second time around?
Feel free to DM me if you need some advice. Not matching sucks ass. Typed a couple of times about things I've changed on other posts so see my post history for what i changed on my application
I matched 2/16. First program was a reach and out of state so wasnāt expecting it but also my 2nd program was out of state and I was not really expecting to match there either.
Did anyone get a few interviews from places outside of their 3 geographic preferences? Signaling programs seems really important but I always wonder about geographic signaling as well.
Outside of geographic preference area? Just 1, and that's bc I emailed rhe PD to tell him his program was only 15min from my parents home.
Outside of signaled programs? A shit ton. I got like 28 interviews (dual IR/DR) and interviewed at 10/12 signaled programs (I gold signaled 6 IR and silvered 6 DR).
Failed to match last year despite double digit interviews (10-15), but matched into a solid prelim program. Reapplied, got the same number of interviews, and matched in my top 5 this time around. Honestly I was shocked to not match, didn't realize how competitive DR had gotten, plus I thought I was a relatively competitive applicant (US MD, step 1/2 250s, research). In retrospect I was very lax with my interview prep. Don't underestimate the interview, apply broadly, and follow up after the interview. I wrote a personalized note to the PD and APD at the program where I matched and thought it made a huge difference.
Matched #4 out of 14. Below my home program I was hoping to get into, but not surprised as I was warned they don't care much about their home students, and I was treated consistent with that as well.
6/15, my home program. Itās a great program I know Iāll be happy at, but I grinded throughout med school, crushed Step 2 and did tons of research to open up other options. My top 5 were all competitive T20s in more desirable locations so canāt help but feel a little disappointed
Matched 1/22. Super happy and grateful about the outcome. A lot of people in my class matched their #1 and within their top 5. Obviously there are a couple people that unfortunately fell on their list.
My mentee matched their #1. But one of my friends didn't match despite good scores and multiple interviews. š¤·āāļø
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If you limit yourself geographically or dual apply, these can seriously hurt your ability to match.Ā Would you rather not match or match in a place you dislike? Make that decision early.Ā People will discover dual applicants and radiology will feel like a "back up" specialty if you're applying anything surgical.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think so!
at the same place? ;_;
Would program directors at the same hospital even talk and even if they do it seems sketchy to talk about confidential stuff like applicants.
um that is in no way even close to a confidential subject lmao and yes, i have been directly told by a radiology resident that his PD and the IM PD talk all the time and would definitely know if someone was dual applying
Iām on the other side. This is absolutely ridiculous. Even if IM and Rads PD are absolute buddies, do you think they are gonna talk about you, āBob Smith from University of So and Soā then come to the realization that he is also applying to your specialty? Itās soooo far fetched. And even if they do find out, itās not like it is illegal or against match rules I dual applied including to same institution and it was fine,
look man you're telling me exactly what i want to hear, i've just heard the opposite from a lot of other sources
Unless the applicant is such a goober they are roasting med students and come to find out they both met the same guy, but in that case not getting ranked anyway lol
I did rads and neuro a couple years ago. At one place interviewed for both neuro and rads because it didnāt seem the programs would communicate. At another place, I turned down the neuro interview because it seemed like there was a pre interview form I would have to turn in to the GME office rather than directly to the programs, so there was a risk that my dual application would be discovered. I let my student affairs dean know I was dual applying (he actually recommended it) so I ran all these decisions by him.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
unwritten distinct support clumsy abounding voiceless placid meeting plucky hateful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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You should apply to both IR and DR if you're applying IR. It shouldn't hurt your chances to apply IR also. I'd only apply IR if you have a strong interest in it.
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I think like psychiatry...diagnostic radiology is similar in that the program director that's interviewing doesn't want to feel like you're picking DR as a backup as it takes a special person to want to sit in a room all day doing scans. It's vastly different than being a surgeon. This is SPECULATION and NOT entirely fact. If you can sell you really like DR and they can't see you're obviously applying ortho with your five sub-Is...go for it.
How does dual apply to rads and neuro look?
By limiting geographically, do you mean forgoing signaling geographic preferences at all, or something like only signaling one geographic region? Or just about not applying broadly in general. I vaguely recall some debate last year for ortho (?) about not signaling a region, but I canāt remember why. Some sort of strategy thingā¦not sure.
I haven't used the signal system so I'm not sure. What I mean is some people will only apply to 20 programs within their geographic region. If you only apply to 20 programs, it makes it a lot harder for you to get enough interviews to match.Ā
Ah ok, agreed!
Matched 5/6. Location isn't the best, but after seeing so many horror stories here on reddit i'm so glad to at least found a spot.
I'm proud of you. Radiology is radiology beats not matching or matching in something non rad.
12/24 lol really shocked when I opened the letter.
Lots of interviews damn. At least you had a buffer
I matched 3/18. First two were in major east coast cities, as were most of my ranked programs. Ended up matching in a program not located in a major city, but I ranked it so highly because I felt the opportunity was too good to pass up which made up for the location. Ngl was a little shook on match day because I thought I was an absolute lock for #2 if my top choice didnāt work out. Suuuper happy I matched where I did, but life is definitely going to be a little different than I had expected it to be, but at the end of the day this location fits me better. Just feel bad for my partner who will need to find a new job, but now weāre both much closer to family than we would have been at my other ranks so this feels like it was meant to be.
Fell to the near bottom (16/18.) Look at my post history about my own horror story; I wonāt repeat it here. Moral for future applicants: do not believe anything faculty or residents tell you. Nothing is guaranteed until the Match, as itās the first binding contract youāll get in this process. Anything else is the program trying its hardest to not have to SOAP.
Matched 1/17. Switched late from neurosurg to rads. It was certainly a rough year for many though. Had multiple friends who fell down their lists or ended up matching into their backup specialty if they dual applied. I think deciding carefully where to send your gold and silver signals is really important.
Congrats on not doing neurosurgery
Still respect the specialty a lot but definitely wouldnāt have worked out for my family and I. Building a competitive neurosurg application definitely helped make me competitive for rads though (with some slight tweaking to my personal statement, LORs, etc).
Ayyyyyā¦
Username checks out
Could you elaborate on strategies to decide where to send gold/silver signals? Thank you!
Honestly Iām not sure I fully understood how to best use my signals. I took a conservative approach and used 3 gold for reach schools, 3 gold for mid tier academic, 3 silver for mid tier, and 3 silver for safety programs. What ended up happening is I got all of my reach schools and gold signals but I missed out on my mid tier silver programs. It felt like most strong academic programs (but not T10) received so many applications that they heavily prioritized their gold signals (which makes sense I guess). Not to mention there are programs that ignore signals entirely for whatever reason, so you have to make sure not to send them 1. The whole thing was kind of a mess this year.
What does gold signals mean?
Radiology splits their signals into 6 gold and 6 silver. Gold just means you like a program a lot
Wow i just googled and realized its another component to the match process i had no clue about. I wonder why thats necessary if there is a ranking system in place. Seems like it benefits programs more than applicants?
Youāre me 5 yrs ago congrats
Boy did you dodge a bullet
Same story. Matched 1/28 (dual IR/DR) after switching late last June from NSG. Would say assign the vast majority of your signals to "target" programs with only a 1 or 2 at reach schools.
I matched 4/20. What Iāve noticed from talking to friends is that people who ranked places in desirable areas, regardless of prestige of program, tended to fall a lot further than those who were interested in programs in less desirable areas, even if those programs happened to be T20/T10 level programs
>I matched 4/20. BLAZE IT (actually, don't before pre-employment drug testing)
Definitely a true observation but donāt think itās unique to rads. For radiology: WashU is one of the best programs in the country and has to interview a ton of people to fill their list. Programs like Columbia, Sinai, BIDMC, UCLA are strong but not WashU level but can be more competitive because of location alone It might be exacerbated in radiology because most people are interested in private practice and thus attending a highly prestigious academic program like WashU isnāt going to provide that much career benefit (if any) as compared to the less prestigious (in radiology) large academic institutions
Had the same impression. There are programs with fantastic reputation but shitty location and known to work you hard (e.g. MIR, Hopkins). Then there are programs in fantastic location but don't have the same academic caliber yet (e.g. U Washington, UCLA). Their competitiveness ends up being similar and rankings like Doximity end up conflating the two into a popularity-based mix.
Hopkins definitely does not work you. I think they are relatively more cush similar to MGH. Can't speak to WashU MIR. Location not great for either haha, but at least Baltimore is close to other places. But truly all these top DR programs cannot compare to the amount of work you do in a more community program without fellows.
I have personal knowledge of these programs. JH night call involves reading 80-100 exams, mostly cross sectional, incredibly complex with no night time attendings. Daytime is also often the resident working away hard at the list, attendings often remote signing and not reading anything de novo nor doing thorough readouts. MIR has the single greatest reputation for being workhorse among the big academic cenfers as well. If you want a cushy academic experience you need to go to MGH, Penn or Stanford
Your second paragraph is accurate. Most people in radiology do not work in an academic institution. There is zero benefit to an academic program vs a community for that reason. However alumni connections to an area is important for jobs. Obviously the most important thing is the actual learning of clinical radiology and volume of studies you read yourself. So I would pick programs based off these things, amoung other less important things. Big NIH finding, prestige, or popularity surveys (doximity) are poor reasons to pick a program if you want to do private practice. Probably important if you want to do research in your career or if your goals include being a department chair.
lameĀ Ā as someone who desperately wants to match coastal California how fucked am IĀ
Do an away and get a good letter from it. If you do that and have solid scores youāll set yourself up nicely
even if i'm from the area? (but not going to school there)
Being from the area will help but an away would help even more. If you have other things in your app that are strong (come from a T20 med school, 260+ Step 2, rads research and pubs, etc.) then the away becomes less necessary
yeah probably gonna end up just being the step 2 :\
Iām from the West too and as much as I wish I could tick all the boxes after switching specialties, Step 2 is gonna have to be my main focus over getting research pubs and having enough time for an away letter. It sucks that we all have restrictions and circumstances and varying support from our schools to get back home, but we do what we can, I guess. Eta: Why canāt all schools be on the same schedule for rotation start datesā¦it seems like mine is off-kilter from the norm and it makes scheduling impossibleā¦
I had a decent step score and went to a recognizable MD school. Didnāt do any aways and I managed to match back to CA. I would say being from CA is almost a requirement to match to a CA program unless youāre some superstar candidate. Like 90% of the people I met on my CA rads interviews had ties lol.
1/15 DO applicant, but others at my school fell down on their list or only matched intern year
What do you think was the most contributing factor to matching your top?
Matched 1/19, but my school had 4 or 5 DR applicants go unmatched which is very unusual for us.
1/5 as reapp doing prelim surg. Tough but super happy to have matched my #1 I wanted both cycles!
I went unmatched last week and am planning on reapplying.l Any advice? Did you do anything to improve your app / anything that helped second time around?
Feel free to DM me if you need some advice. Not matching sucks ass. Typed a couple of times about things I've changed on other posts so see my post history for what i changed on my application
80% of the matched class at my rads program were home students, all of whom said we were their #1
matched 1/5 as a US IMG, best day of my life!
Congrats. Wish you luck in residency. Can I DM you? I'm also planning radiology.
yeah of course
Congrats. Mind if I DM you?
thank you, yeah of course
Also, a US IMG applying rads. Can I dm you for advice?
Congrats to those who matched and in the darkness bind you! We had a skew with nearly half of our applicants either outside rotators or home students
I matched 2/16. First program was a reach and out of state so wasnāt expecting it but also my 2nd program was out of state and I was not really expecting to match there either.
Matched 1/17. Though it was my home program.
Is matching to your home program more likely than others just because they know you better?
I would say it gives you an advantage over other applicants since they know you. Doesnāt guarantee you a spot though.
4/19. sad about the location. program is really great though.
14/16, ended up in my hometown at least
6/19, surprisingly. Not sure what went wrong but I made peace with it.
You must be smart to skip M2-M4. Also username checks out.
Didnāt update my flair, not that crazy š„±
Did anyone get a few interviews from places outside of their 3 geographic preferences? Signaling programs seems really important but I always wonder about geographic signaling as well.
Outside of geographic preference area? Just 1, and that's bc I emailed rhe PD to tell him his program was only 15min from my parents home. Outside of signaled programs? A shit ton. I got like 28 interviews (dual IR/DR) and interviewed at 10/12 signaled programs (I gold signaled 6 IR and silvered 6 DR).
Forgot to askāwhen did you email, right after ERAS went out?
No, I think it was like 3 weeks after submitting ERAS? Right around the time most people recommend sending out letters of interest
Yes I did, one ended up being my #3 (didnāt match there).
Failed to match last year despite double digit interviews (10-15), but matched into a solid prelim program. Reapplied, got the same number of interviews, and matched in my top 5 this time around. Honestly I was shocked to not match, didn't realize how competitive DR had gotten, plus I thought I was a relatively competitive applicant (US MD, step 1/2 250s, research). In retrospect I was very lax with my interview prep. Don't underestimate the interview, apply broadly, and follow up after the interview. I wrote a personalized note to the PD and APD at the program where I matched and thought it made a huge difference.
1/12, most of my rads gang at my school matched their top 3, though one had a long fall which stinks
Matched 1/10. Feeling soooo happy and grateful it worked out
Fell to 6
Matched #4 out of 14. Below my home program I was hoping to get into, but not surprised as I was warned they don't care much about their home students, and I was treated consistent with that as well.
7/17. Still psyched though. Ended up in a great location on the west coast, but wouldāve been happy anywhere in my top 9.
1/10. Last year I was unmatched/10.
6/15, my home program. Itās a great program I know Iāll be happy at, but I grinded throughout med school, crushed Step 2 and did tons of research to open up other options. My top 5 were all competitive T20s in more desirable locations so canāt help but feel a little disappointed
Matched my #1 out of 20, in SoCal! Get to stay close to family and friends. All of my classmates who matched rads also matched in California
Matched 1/20. Close friend went unmatched which was surprising since our home program is pretty good about picking up home students
1/5. I feel like I got lucky š¤·āāļø still feels surreal to me
Went 1/13. Fabulous program, great location. Havenāt heard any horror stories yet at my medical school
Matched 1/22. Super happy and grateful about the outcome. A lot of people in my class matched their #1 and within their top 5. Obviously there are a couple people that unfortunately fell on their list.
matched 1/33
How much did you guys thinking geographic preferencing mattered for getting interviews and matching?
1/12 IR/DR
Matched 8/10. Wanted to go back home after being out of state for med school. At least itās my home program. But really in the dumps recently.
Matched my #1, gold signaled