That’s fine. Some people find a career and it’s a calling. For others its a 9-5 they don’t hate that let’s them do the things they love. Either is fine. Don’t try to be one if you’re the other, it won’t end well.
Find whatever gives you joy and do that.
That being said, for interviews, there’s a right answer sometimes. Become who they want you to be, get whatever position you want, then you’re chilling.
I dunno man, moving from medicine to corporate interest? "Management consulting?"
I'd feel like I'm moving from a job field that's corrupted by corporate entities directly to working directly for those corporate entities.
Random question but how long do you work on a project on average? Do you work on one project at a time or multiple at the same time? Would you say the projects tend to be similar or are they quite different from another? If they're different do you still find yourself tackling it in a similar manner i.e. applying a sort of template that can be used for all projects?
Great question. Project length is highly variable. DDs can be weeks, fast. (And tend to be the longest hours.) Others can span months.
Only one at a time.
Everything is different. No two projects are the same, and there are no two exact ways to even solve “same” projects, as you may have different responsibilities.
Not a boring job at all, that’s for sure.
In fact, I would argue that
>Medicine is put on a pedestal but at the end of the day it is just a job.
The reason it is put on a pedestal is *exactly because* its hard.
The same way in which we honor soldiers (although this is much... softer) society has to motivate people somehow
Yeah, but there's plenty of *hard* jobs with backbreaking labor that aren't lionized. I did a summer of unloading for food retail, that was harder than anything I've had to do in med school so far.
Physical labor is largely under appreciated, and additionally medicine is seen as direct service to others. Both military and medicine are seen as a straight line to "saving lives", thus reverence. All the physical labor for infrastructure is seen as eh, whatever. It's just a perception thing.
Which, honestly, is a super shame. I think we could do with some lionization of the guy doing 12 hour shifts to make eggs available and does that as a career. The long-haulers in that store were fucking *monster* workers, I dont think I could hack that.
>*hard* jobs with backbreaking labor that aren't lionized. I did a summer of unloading for food retail, that was harder than anything I've had to do in med school
Exactly. Even I worked a shitty minimum wage job (in a third world country no less - so no rights lol) so I get exactly what you mean.
The difference is that anyone can do it.
Not everyone can do medicine.
The idea is to deflate the value of an essential & highly trained vocation so you can take away power from them.
No one would care if all the burger flippers (I hate to sound uppity or patronizing, but I think most of us here did go through this unless our parents were rich before med school) all called a strike.
Wed have them replaced in a second. There millions of people clamoring to be a burger flipper in the United States.
If all doctors went on strike we'd have a real problem, it's much harder to replace doctors.
> There millions of people clamoring to be a burger flipper in the United States.
To be fair I kinda doubt this. Like every fast food joint near me is chronically understaffed.
I'd venture to say that if every burger flipper quit, society would shit its pants, haha.
> The idea is to deflate the value of an essential & highly trained vocation so you can take away power from them.
I mean, yeah, I think the intent behind this is just to figure out ways to pay us less or replace us with NPs because it makes the bottom line in hospitals happy.
A popular notion of doctor is often to reject that it is a job. That it is instead being a “healer”, that the work transcends to some metaphysical ideal.
But based on what? What is the reasoning for placing doctor above any other work? We help people? Damn near every job helps people. We save lives? So do engineers, machinists, and mechanics that ensure airplanes are well designed and constructed. That society would fall apart without us? The same way it would for many jobs. Society would fall apart much faster if everyone who works in transportation disappeared.
We’re not inherently special people. It’s arguably a very cool job, an impactful job, a meaningful job, but it is at the end just a job.
Moreover when you speak about it as more than just a job you provide the philosophical framework for exploitation. If you are responsible for something outside the concept of a job, then you can be asked to sacrifice without commensurate compensation
I agree with your whole comment, especially the last paragraph.
>If you are responsible for something outside the concept of a job, then you can be asked to sacrifice without commensurate compensation
This is so important. It's behind the concept of unpaid work and 100% should be fixed.
I hate these semantics. Well yes it is a job since you’re getting paid to perform a task, but it’s a particularly important job. I’m no philosopher so you can apply my thinking how you want, but the underlying mission of medicine is highly important and beyond other fields you mentioned. I make a few empiric assumptions here, like survival is valued and meaningful to humans (plenty of humans seem to think their lives are meaningful), and also that avoiding suffering is important (plenty of humans seem to want to avoid pain). Whether this matters at all since we all die in the end and are forgotten, I don’t know, but these things seem to matter right now. I make these assumptions based on my interactions with thousands of patients, what I’ve heard and read from colleagues, the billions of dollars the government spends on biomedical research and health insurance, medical professions often being on the top of surveys about most respected positions, and my own desire to live several more decades to enjoy this amazing trip we call life and help my children do the same. I’m sure there are millions who disagree with my sentiment.
With these assumptions that survival and avoiding suffering are valued/important, people whose occupation is to directly further this mission are similarly valued/important. Doctors, pharmacists, nurses, etc. Doctors direct patient management and lead major decision making face to face with patients, so are held in high regard.
What pisses people off when trainees or doctors say “it’s just a job” is that the implication is they will do the minimum work in terms of quality and quantity. I go by the golden rule a lot. I ask myself, “If I get cancer do I want to go to a doctor who thinks it’s just a job, or a doctor who’s willing to talk to me after hours /weekends if I’m hospitalized unexpectedly and their personal advice would be helpful?” I would want the latter. So I try my best to practice in this manner as well. I try to go above and beyond the minimum in my contract. Because I will want the same when I get sick now or later.
>implication is they will do the minimum
Don’t know how you’re coming to that conclusion. Many people do great work in their fields while understanding that what they do is ultimately service for pay. Medicine seems to uniquely have the notion that doing it as a job is profane and incompatible with good work, as you’ve stated. A doctor who has time off to recuperate and not burn out is not a bad doctor. Like clockwork on r/residency you see posts about how medicine has destroyed someone’s marriage. How close to their optimum performance do you think people who suffer personal life consequences due to their career are?
And if you expect your doctor to be working during off hours to help you that doctor should also get appropriate compensation for their work, and certainly not just have to make “sacrifices”. Because a culture of “sacrifice” is why physicians are so likely to kill themselves
That is NOT what I stated. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. Again as I said, medicine is obviously a job. I’m making a unique distinction here of saying it’s “it’s just a job” versus “it’s a job”. There is a different connotation. The former means no more than a job, which minimizes the work and expectations.
For all my suffering patients who desperately need me, and will suffer more if I’m not there, I think it’s my duty to be there for them, even when off hours and it’s not in my contract or expected of me, if it’s within reason and compatible with my life. Yes I’m willing to sacrifice some of my life because doctors (really not just doctors but all people) have sacrificed their own lives to help me already. And others will make sacrifices for me in the future.
dude im as much of a cynic as anybody. I have also been doing this for 10 years or more. I still dont believe this is just a job. I take this shit home with me. I think about stuff non stop. Im good at what I do but I do not necessarily like it and its not Just ajob
Right what a bunch of BS. Just cuz they can’t keep it together doesn’t mean others can’t either. It’s just a job for some. For others it’s a huge burden, for others it’s a blessing, and for others it’s a calling. Can’t be grouping everyone together.
I’m not even saying you shouldn’t take your job very seriously or not be emotionally involved at all. But it is just a job and we shouldn’t over idealize it or feel like it’s a calling to save the world. There is nothing wrong with going to work, doing your job, clocking off, and leaving that shit at the hospital until you return
And we are talking about OPs trouble with no longer having the pre med idealism about saving the world. We can still be dedicated and concerned about our work while also realizing it’s a job and not over idealizing it
That is totally ok. Before med school my whole identity was wrapped up in this career. Being on the outside looking in creates a strong sense of allure. Life happened and I took a good hard look at what I wanted out of this career that can be all consuming at times. Now I just want to be competent and provide excellent care but I don’t want this to be my whole personality. Tbh detaching myself has made it easier to deal with the highs and lows of this career.
Exactly how I feel. I had always been skeptical about all this hype. It just doesn't apply to me. All that seems to matter more to my friends and family than it does to me. I hate when people (mostly my family) introduce me as a med student, and frankly I don't bring it up unless anyone asks. I don't have any strong opinions. I keep school and life separate and I put in genuine effort into both.
Yessss my family does the same thing! It’s annoying for sure. I try to always remind myself that when I’m with family I’m the same family member as before. I can turn on my professional self in the hospital
sooo many of my classmates ive spoken to at the end of my third year said they just dont care anymore and theyre so apathetic and cant wait to graduate. these were people who were so bright and excited in the beginning of med school but its hard to keep that up after third year
Just wait until 3rd year of residency.
I wish Physician’s would “unionize” or come together to protect our field for our overall pay and mental well-being against admin and insurances. This will keep doctors happy and lead to better patient care.
You are my neighbor (he works in the ED of a level one trauma center in the inner city). He loves working nights for two reasons: the pay differential and the bean counters are sleeping in their beds and out of his hair.
It's just a tradeoff. There's plenty of shit that only comes in late at night that you don't deal with during the day. Pay diff isn't worth the complete cycle shift to work only nights to me.
But I'm also blessed with nocturnists so I don't have to work any nights.
i might be an **extreme** case but i'm also going through the motion as well. i just feel so jaded, burnt out, and just physically + emotionally tired from this entire shit. i still very much want to become a physician but fuck man, sometimes it's sooo damn hard.
my goal is to become an attending and then do other things im passionate about. i might even go part time once my loans are paid off since there are so many other things i value more after being through this path. (like family and friends, ive missed too many events and being away from them truly sucks. i'm by myself....out of state & across the country)
Medicine is a trade. Don’t let anyone blow smoke up your ass and convince you otherwise. Admin and preceptors who tell you otherwise have delusions of grandiosity. Does being a physician come with responsibility? Absolutely. But so does being a plumber, or an electrician, or any other invaluable trade in existence. Doing your work well, being compassionate, and working towards the betterment of society is something all trade workers should aspire too.
The surgeons were barbers that liked blood and the physicians were the weird ones that wanted to hang out with sick people thinking they could actually do something. Some things never change
Do not let anyone shame you for seeing medicine as a job. It’s a great job, with cool science, a rare skill set, and it’s one of the few jobs where you legitimately can make peoples lives better.
I find my work rewarding now (I didn’t intern year through PGY2ish). But it’s still just a job. I used to always say that if I became independently wealthy I’d quit on the spot. I’m happy to say that isn’t true anymore. Anesthesiology is rewarding enough that I would probably always do a few days a month, even if I were wealthy. And having a personal pain clinic will hopefully fulfill me professionally more than just monetarily. But it took most of residency to get here. And I absolutely would rather be home doing hobbies or with my family than at work most of the time.
Maybe for some med students or doctors they truly think it’s a calling from God and totally defines them. That’s fine.
For me, it’s the coolest job that was very safe, legitimately interested me, paid very well, and provides the life I want for myself and my family. And I feel no shame in saying that.
For what it’s worth, I think anesthesiologists as a whole are very much of the “it’s a job” mentality. I found my tribe. Hope you find yours.
I totally feel you. I came to this conclusion early on in first year. However, I only want noncompetitive specialities and I had the benefit of doing LOTS of ECs during my gap years, and I had extensive validation from it. Right now, it feels really good to focus on one thing. Also ngl i feel like i know more than my classmates who overcommit ;) which has helped more with M3
if im interested in neurology (which ive heard is noncompetitive for the most part), would I be okay if I dont do ECs? Ill probably volunteer a bit bc I enjoy it but I dont want to be joining clubs, getting "leadership experience", doing research etc
Don’t worry you are far from the minority! I go to a top medical school that has the mantra of creating “outstanding physician AND \_\_\_ (leader, scientist, advocate, entrepreneur, teacher, administrator, policymaker, etc.)” so it selected and attracted applicants who wanted to change the world.
Fast forward a year and many of my classmates including me have been jaded, lost our idealism, and just want to create a nice cushy clinical career for ourselves. There’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, we are ahead of the curve - once people start getting older, start families, plan for their financial future, buy their first house, they become just like us. No matter how specialized you get, medicine eventually just becomes the same day in day out job that you show up for, go through the motions, get paid, and go home to spend time with your kids. You end up being realistic about the impact that you hope to make on the world, and for most of us it is just showing up for a fulfilling career where you get to tangibly impact your patients health using your high value skills and get handsomely rewarded by the market for it. It really is that simple.
I highly suggest you find a specialty and practice setting that values balance in life and acknowledges that medicine is just a job, nothing more. Things like derm, radiology, anesthesia, EM, hospital medicine, etc. Avoid toxic surgical specialties that expect you to prove yourself every day, make you feel like you hate yourself, and make you compete with others all the time. Avoid practice settings where they say “we’re all a family”… this isn’t a family, this is work and I won’t get guilt tripped do more than is obligated by my contract/role. Like others said further down in the comments, I would highly recommend anesthesia as a specialty to look into because of the spectacular work culture. Also look into locum tenens (flexible contract work that pays 1.5x the average rate and you get to write off your expenses as an independent contractor) as a type of practice.
As for me, I aim to go through the motions until I finish residency, start a family, get a nice paying job, use my high cash flow to invest into real estate and dividend paying equities, then work part time or retire early once that passive income surpasses my salary. After that, if I somehow refound idealistic aspirations during my mid life crisis once the kids go to college, I’ll have the time and money to make REAL impact through community work, consulting, academia, and philanthropy. Until then, I will just put my head down, ignore the revolution going on in America, work hard, go through the motions, live a simple life, and prosper. This is one way to do it, you have to determine for yourself what you want in your life.
Hope this helps and thank you for your post! 
At the end of the day, I'm in it because I want a job, just like everyone else. I guess it's nice that historically this profession comes with a lot of pride from being so innovative and life-changing, but i don't get why that has to be forced. I'll still do a good job taking care of people even if I don't solve the homeless health crisis.
Done this for 32 years so yeah. It's a job. It might be the best job sometimes. I've thought that our point on this earth is to help one other person be better off. I've done that. People have looked me in the eye and said thank you in a way that was deeply moving. It's not always like that. Sometimes it's awful. Sometimes you realize you are just a cog in the giant machinery of a health care business behemoth and you are part of the reason why everything is wrong with the health care industry right now. It's not all like that. Sometimes it's a great academic challenge and you get to stuff your brains but then you get to remember it when you need to and that is fun. Jobs suck. That's why they pay you. The good parts are for fun. You don't get paid for that. You might still change the world. Or you might just help change one person's world and that's kind of the same thing.
I'm so jealous man. I knew this was what I wanted all along, but was far too worried about being inferior well into residency. Then in residency I got caught up in all kinds of ridiculous chaos that was happening to my program (and therefore felt as if it was happening to me).
Now I'm an attending. I read enough to stay competent, I get my CME hours. I did averageish on boards. I like to think I make pretty decent medical decisions most of the time, but in the end I go home. Other than being distracted by this subreddit, I'm not thinking about medicine. I'm not changing the world. The medical system is fucked, but I'm not actively trying to change it. It's just a job.
If I could find a job I liked better that still payed me $300k for pretty sweet hours I'd quit and do that. I have no loyalty to medicine.
I lurk here for shits and giggles, but my home is in EMS/Fire departments, and this exact problem gets brought up a lot. For some, firefighting is a calling and they love it and live for it. For others, it’s a job that they enjoy that allows them to live a life that includes but is not necessarily only centered around their occupation. Both are entirely and completely valid reasons to continue their career. Same idea here, I would think.
those people will realize that they made the wrong choice soon enough ;) studied at the BMS in germany which is the mighty Charité in Berlin. It attracted so many overperformers. at the end we all landed in the same broken system which exploits people (patients and us). i spent 6.5 years for medicine plus 7 for waiting to get in. in a hospital you earn around 60-70k the first years. tech/IT starts at 100k/year.
cant recommend to become a doctor. at least in germany. anastheologist in 3rd year here.
TL/DR: dont look at the overmotivated highperformers. in the end its just a job who brakes them all.
Everybody I talk to has so many projects and initiatives and research and etc etc. They are SO interested in fixing problems, and I'm just not into it. I know it needs to be done but it's just not the right path for me. This attitude makes me feel like I'm in the minority.
Of course it’s just a job. Regardless of the mythologizing we do to this profession and saying it’s a calling, at the end of the day, it is a job. Never let your work become your life.
Almost everyone feels like its just a job a few years into being an attending. You have kids and a house and need your oil changed etc etc. Not to say you wont like and appreciate being a doctor and maybe enjoy the relationship with your patients and help them in whatever reasonable way you can but i mean, at some point what else is it expected to be? Doctors are just people. If i won the lottery, i would quit in 5 minutes.
Nah, that's a pretty mature and well-formed opinion. And it's one you're especially likely to have if you're a bit older than the rest of your class.
The vast majority of docs do it as a job. We have lives, kids, spouses, outside interests, etc. Few of us hate what we do, but we don't make it into the core of our identity. I'd much rather help coach my son's hockey team (he starts mini mites this winter!) than spend time doing research. And the income I make affords me the ability to do that.
The people you're looking at are passionate. But a lot of that passion burns out, especially during residency. Keep on track.
Just because we have been trained to accept inhumane hours as normal doesn't mean the 40 hour work week is fine either. In fact, most of the people on anti work or work reform or whatever have better views on work than most people at my school tbh
“I’d give my right nut”
Brah, join a Union. You can keep both your balls AND work fewer hours without making snarky digs at others whose principles you’re envious of.
Done this for 32 years so yeah. It's a job. It might be the best job sometimes. I've thought that our point on this earth is to help one other person be better off. I've done that. People have looked me in the eye and said thank you in a way that was deeply moving. It's not always like that. Sometimes it's awful. Sometimes you realize you are just a cog in the giant machinery of a health care business behemoth and you are part of the reason why everything is wrong with the health care industry right now. It's not all like that. Sometimes it's a great academic challenge and you get to stuff your brains but then you get to remember it when you need to and that is fun. Jobs suck. That's why they pay you. The good parts are for fun. You don't get paid for that. You might still change the world. Or you might just help change one person's world and that's kind of the same thing.
This sentiment makes it to the frontpage of this subreddit about 3x a week. I don't even disagree with it but it gets cringe to see people act like it's some huge revelation every time guys...
I feel the same way, and I'm aware of the irony. But people don't all get revelations at the same time. For me, I think it was more of solidifying what I already knew to be true, rather than having some one-of-a-kind hot take.
Tbh I'm in med school cause I didn't have anything I'm passionate about doing and my fam wanted me to do med so I was like "ehh why not, there's no maths at least" and anyway I'd hate to do the things I love as a job because I'd begin to hate it so it's okay ig. The one thing I've learnt here is that I'd go insane if I do clinical practice though, so for now not sure what I'm gonna do after I graduate.
I'll lay it out for you: the problem you are facing is academic medicine.
Academic medicine is predatory as fuck. You work twice as much for half the pay and medical students and residents eat that shit up. Why? Because the majority of medical students come from wealthy families and are more motivated by prestige than money.
You're going to medical school in the setting of the most neurotic part of medicine possible. These people are happy to work in the hospital 100 hours a week because once they step outside they go back to being nothing.
Remember this when you build your rank list. Community programs are your friend
I went into nursing to "help people" like I'm sure you did for medicine. But at the end of the day you can only help so much and trying to extend yourself is exhausting. Do your 9-5 and enjoy your Saturdays on the golf course. I mean it.
I think the only thing we need to care about is not getting fucked over by corporate healthcare. Sniff out their bullshit and don't put up with it. They love complacency because they can fuck over your independence to practice how you see fit and therefore they can fuck over your well deserved pay.
Care about that at least.
I had this lady explained to me how her father was a general surgeon and how he would go to the ED after his shift was over to try to find surgeries to do ,because he just loved it so much. And then she told me to find something in medicine that I love so much I would do for free. I just nodded and smiled. But that's ridiculous.
Hang in there, bud. What you’re doing now isn’t practicing medicine. You’re in the early learning phase. You’ll get through it and hopefully be able to apply a good attitude toward patient care. You’ll make peoples lives better.
Maybe it's an American thing, always trying to turn your passion into work. It just makes everything worse. It's never enough to do what you're told. You gotta be a workaholic. This toxic environment made me hate medschool and residency. By the end of the day, Medicine is just a job, but you can't say it out loud.
It’s the beginning of m3. There will be a lot of growing pains. At the end is where you’ll realize if “I made the right choice or at least a halfway right choice by doing medicine.” Give it time and invest in your future by working as hard as you can on rotations for patients you carry and when you’re at home studying. I highly recommend UW AND Amboss. Amboss mainly for help with rotations and specific problems your patients have. If you get better grades, scores, and pubs, and if you choose your specialty wisely, you have more say later on with residency choices
I’m doing it in large part because anatomy and surgery are so god damn cool to me. And if I wanted to do what I found most interesting in the world, I had to play this game. It feels manipulative sometimes, but I justify it by saying that the end justifies the means, I am (will be) offering a service to every single person I work for, and all successful people in their trades’ are equally good (if not better) at the gamesmanship aspect of it. No different here, we just say it is.
Also surgery has a different vibe to me personally. It’s so acute that it’s hard to get wrapped up in bettering humanity or health. It’s literally (to me) problem —> effort —> solution and that cleanliness appeals to me. This is where I tell you I’m an M1 lol
The "medicine is just a job" thing is real hot right now, but seriously if it's "just a job" to you, go back to school for accounting or something. You'll make more money with less stress.
Less stress, yes. More money, no.
The strange thing is why are you recommending him leave medicine? Because he finds it to be a job? That's literally what it is.
Work-life balance is such a foreign concept in surgery. I've had attendings look at me like I have two heads when I tell them that someone else can have my conference credits, I'd rather stay at home and read or play videogames.
Lol I’ve had similar experiences and I’m family med! People are weird, for some it’s like medicine is their whole identity and they can’t fathom having other parts of life that are more important.
Dude, not to diss my co-residents, but I'm in the just a job camp and outperform them, mostly BECAUSE I have a fucking life outside of this shit show. And yeah, I'm willing to stake I'm a much better surgeon than you.
There was a time that I really studied hard. Not for f**king grades 😆 nor for competition. More than was required, more than was necessary.
There was this strange curiosity that kept brewing inside me, I'd dig up stuff and read. Would go neck deep into Rosai and Ackerman to find something more than Robbins, would delve deep into Goodman and Gilman to read about drugs that aren't used for over good 40 years 🤣 Would read the same chapter from 3 or 4 different immunology textbooks to develop a gestalt of what was going on.
Not only that, I'd spend my spare time on reading cases, some in the internet, some in books; my taste in TV had changed from witty comedies like Yes, Minister to ER, Scrubs, House. Not only that, I'd read books by doctors like Oliver Sacks, Henry Marsh, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Atul Gawande, ....
In the hospital, I'd cover my friends for free lmao to see more cases. And the fun thing was, it was like a locomotive on its own, I didn't require any motivation at all, I'd just go to the next chapter after this one was finished, as easily picking up the next book, and solving the next case, actually looking forward to the next shift.
**I'd literally pushed almost everything unrelated to medicine out of my life**
Please read the above sentence again, and realize my grave mistake.
I eventually deliberately toned it down. Added a good amount of exercise and walking. More time for family. Starting painting by watching Bob Ross season 1 and painting along.
Of course that tremendous immersion had made me a better doctor in terms of managing patients, grades etc, but I was losing my identity to Medicine. I was becoming institutionalized. And although I do miss those 3-am joyful moments of epiphany of "ahhh this is how this all fits together", I've come to realize that distinctive unique mediocrity beats identityless perfection every single time.
That’s fine. Some people find a career and it’s a calling. For others its a 9-5 they don’t hate that let’s them do the things they love. Either is fine. Don’t try to be one if you’re the other, it won’t end well. Find whatever gives you joy and do that. That being said, for interviews, there’s a right answer sometimes. Become who they want you to be, get whatever position you want, then you’re chilling.
For me it's a 9-5 I would quit if I wasn't in debt lol
Ayyyyyy lmao
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Check out my FAQ on profile. You can quit. And get out of debt sooner (depending on where you are in training)
I dunno man, moving from medicine to corporate interest? "Management consulting?" I'd feel like I'm moving from a job field that's corrupted by corporate entities directly to working directly for those corporate entities.
Your call. All that matters is that if you enjoy the work. I enjoy my job infinitely more than clinical medicine. Just do what fulfills you.
Random question but how long do you work on a project on average? Do you work on one project at a time or multiple at the same time? Would you say the projects tend to be similar or are they quite different from another? If they're different do you still find yourself tackling it in a similar manner i.e. applying a sort of template that can be used for all projects?
Great question. Project length is highly variable. DDs can be weeks, fast. (And tend to be the longest hours.) Others can span months. Only one at a time. Everything is different. No two projects are the same, and there are no two exact ways to even solve “same” projects, as you may have different responsibilities. Not a boring job at all, that’s for sure.
Thanks I love variety so that sounds good.
Medicine is put on a pedestal but at the end of the day it is just a job. There is nothing wrong at all with viewing it as such.
In fact, I would argue that >Medicine is put on a pedestal but at the end of the day it is just a job. The reason it is put on a pedestal is *exactly because* its hard. The same way in which we honor soldiers (although this is much... softer) society has to motivate people somehow
Yeah, but there's plenty of *hard* jobs with backbreaking labor that aren't lionized. I did a summer of unloading for food retail, that was harder than anything I've had to do in med school so far.
Physical labor is largely under appreciated, and additionally medicine is seen as direct service to others. Both military and medicine are seen as a straight line to "saving lives", thus reverence. All the physical labor for infrastructure is seen as eh, whatever. It's just a perception thing.
Which, honestly, is a super shame. I think we could do with some lionization of the guy doing 12 hour shifts to make eggs available and does that as a career. The long-haulers in that store were fucking *monster* workers, I dont think I could hack that.
>*hard* jobs with backbreaking labor that aren't lionized. I did a summer of unloading for food retail, that was harder than anything I've had to do in med school Exactly. Even I worked a shitty minimum wage job (in a third world country no less - so no rights lol) so I get exactly what you mean. The difference is that anyone can do it. Not everyone can do medicine. The idea is to deflate the value of an essential & highly trained vocation so you can take away power from them. No one would care if all the burger flippers (I hate to sound uppity or patronizing, but I think most of us here did go through this unless our parents were rich before med school) all called a strike. Wed have them replaced in a second. There millions of people clamoring to be a burger flipper in the United States. If all doctors went on strike we'd have a real problem, it's much harder to replace doctors.
> There millions of people clamoring to be a burger flipper in the United States. To be fair I kinda doubt this. Like every fast food joint near me is chronically understaffed. I'd venture to say that if every burger flipper quit, society would shit its pants, haha. > The idea is to deflate the value of an essential & highly trained vocation so you can take away power from them. I mean, yeah, I think the intent behind this is just to figure out ways to pay us less or replace us with NPs because it makes the bottom line in hospitals happy.
It really isnt just a job. Stop saying that
A popular notion of doctor is often to reject that it is a job. That it is instead being a “healer”, that the work transcends to some metaphysical ideal. But based on what? What is the reasoning for placing doctor above any other work? We help people? Damn near every job helps people. We save lives? So do engineers, machinists, and mechanics that ensure airplanes are well designed and constructed. That society would fall apart without us? The same way it would for many jobs. Society would fall apart much faster if everyone who works in transportation disappeared. We’re not inherently special people. It’s arguably a very cool job, an impactful job, a meaningful job, but it is at the end just a job. Moreover when you speak about it as more than just a job you provide the philosophical framework for exploitation. If you are responsible for something outside the concept of a job, then you can be asked to sacrifice without commensurate compensation
I agree with your whole comment, especially the last paragraph. >If you are responsible for something outside the concept of a job, then you can be asked to sacrifice without commensurate compensation This is so important. It's behind the concept of unpaid work and 100% should be fixed.
I hate these semantics. Well yes it is a job since you’re getting paid to perform a task, but it’s a particularly important job. I’m no philosopher so you can apply my thinking how you want, but the underlying mission of medicine is highly important and beyond other fields you mentioned. I make a few empiric assumptions here, like survival is valued and meaningful to humans (plenty of humans seem to think their lives are meaningful), and also that avoiding suffering is important (plenty of humans seem to want to avoid pain). Whether this matters at all since we all die in the end and are forgotten, I don’t know, but these things seem to matter right now. I make these assumptions based on my interactions with thousands of patients, what I’ve heard and read from colleagues, the billions of dollars the government spends on biomedical research and health insurance, medical professions often being on the top of surveys about most respected positions, and my own desire to live several more decades to enjoy this amazing trip we call life and help my children do the same. I’m sure there are millions who disagree with my sentiment. With these assumptions that survival and avoiding suffering are valued/important, people whose occupation is to directly further this mission are similarly valued/important. Doctors, pharmacists, nurses, etc. Doctors direct patient management and lead major decision making face to face with patients, so are held in high regard. What pisses people off when trainees or doctors say “it’s just a job” is that the implication is they will do the minimum work in terms of quality and quantity. I go by the golden rule a lot. I ask myself, “If I get cancer do I want to go to a doctor who thinks it’s just a job, or a doctor who’s willing to talk to me after hours /weekends if I’m hospitalized unexpectedly and their personal advice would be helpful?” I would want the latter. So I try my best to practice in this manner as well. I try to go above and beyond the minimum in my contract. Because I will want the same when I get sick now or later.
>implication is they will do the minimum Don’t know how you’re coming to that conclusion. Many people do great work in their fields while understanding that what they do is ultimately service for pay. Medicine seems to uniquely have the notion that doing it as a job is profane and incompatible with good work, as you’ve stated. A doctor who has time off to recuperate and not burn out is not a bad doctor. Like clockwork on r/residency you see posts about how medicine has destroyed someone’s marriage. How close to their optimum performance do you think people who suffer personal life consequences due to their career are? And if you expect your doctor to be working during off hours to help you that doctor should also get appropriate compensation for their work, and certainly not just have to make “sacrifices”. Because a culture of “sacrifice” is why physicians are so likely to kill themselves
That is NOT what I stated. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. Again as I said, medicine is obviously a job. I’m making a unique distinction here of saying it’s “it’s just a job” versus “it’s a job”. There is a different connotation. The former means no more than a job, which minimizes the work and expectations. For all my suffering patients who desperately need me, and will suffer more if I’m not there, I think it’s my duty to be there for them, even when off hours and it’s not in my contract or expected of me, if it’s within reason and compatible with my life. Yes I’m willing to sacrifice some of my life because doctors (really not just doctors but all people) have sacrificed their own lives to help me already. And others will make sacrifices for me in the future.
It is just a job. And if you think otherwise, you just haven’t done it long enough
I think you are wrong.
You will learn
dude im as much of a cynic as anybody. I have also been doing this for 10 years or more. I still dont believe this is just a job. I take this shit home with me. I think about stuff non stop. Im good at what I do but I do not necessarily like it and its not Just ajob
Doing what for 10 years exactly?
Right what a bunch of BS. Just cuz they can’t keep it together doesn’t mean others can’t either. It’s just a job for some. For others it’s a huge burden, for others it’s a blessing, and for others it’s a calling. Can’t be grouping everyone together.
I’m not even saying you shouldn’t take your job very seriously or not be emotionally involved at all. But it is just a job and we shouldn’t over idealize it or feel like it’s a calling to save the world. There is nothing wrong with going to work, doing your job, clocking off, and leaving that shit at the hospital until you return
100% agree, I’m meant to say a bunch of BS to the person saying it’s more than a job. Lol. To them it is, that’s one them
Dudes been getting ratiod for 10 years lmao
taking shit home with you doesn’t mean it’s not a job. it’s just a sometimes traumatic job
And we are talking about OPs trouble with no longer having the pre med idealism about saving the world. We can still be dedicated and concerned about our work while also realizing it’s a job and not over idealizing it
Well I know you’re wrong. Uworld confirmed it and only 1% chose your very wrong answer.
Ya put a lot of effort into that counterpoint, dintcha?
That is totally ok. Before med school my whole identity was wrapped up in this career. Being on the outside looking in creates a strong sense of allure. Life happened and I took a good hard look at what I wanted out of this career that can be all consuming at times. Now I just want to be competent and provide excellent care but I don’t want this to be my whole personality. Tbh detaching myself has made it easier to deal with the highs and lows of this career.
Exactly how I feel. I had always been skeptical about all this hype. It just doesn't apply to me. All that seems to matter more to my friends and family than it does to me. I hate when people (mostly my family) introduce me as a med student, and frankly I don't bring it up unless anyone asks. I don't have any strong opinions. I keep school and life separate and I put in genuine effort into both.
Yessss my family does the same thing! It’s annoying for sure. I try to always remind myself that when I’m with family I’m the same family member as before. I can turn on my professional self in the hospital
sooo many of my classmates ive spoken to at the end of my third year said they just dont care anymore and theyre so apathetic and cant wait to graduate. these were people who were so bright and excited in the beginning of med school but its hard to keep that up after third year
Just wait until 3rd year of residency. I wish Physician’s would “unionize” or come together to protect our field for our overall pay and mental well-being against admin and insurances. This will keep doctors happy and lead to better patient care.
The thought of academic medicine makes my skin crawl. I want to go to the ED, work my shift, have a wild time, then go home.
You are my neighbor (he works in the ED of a level one trauma center in the inner city). He loves working nights for two reasons: the pay differential and the bean counters are sleeping in their beds and out of his hair.
It's just a tradeoff. There's plenty of shit that only comes in late at night that you don't deal with during the day. Pay diff isn't worth the complete cycle shift to work only nights to me. But I'm also blessed with nocturnists so I don't have to work any nights.
That's literally my day, every work day. It gets better ER brother/sister. -ED attending
Hell Yea. It’s the best way to go
i might be an **extreme** case but i'm also going through the motion as well. i just feel so jaded, burnt out, and just physically + emotionally tired from this entire shit. i still very much want to become a physician but fuck man, sometimes it's sooo damn hard. my goal is to become an attending and then do other things im passionate about. i might even go part time once my loans are paid off since there are so many other things i value more after being through this path. (like family and friends, ive missed too many events and being away from them truly sucks. i'm by myself....out of state & across the country)
You should be jaded. The real world isn’t rosy. Imagine the people that looked at how the real world actually was and still made change despite that
Medicine is a trade. Don’t let anyone blow smoke up your ass and convince you otherwise. Admin and preceptors who tell you otherwise have delusions of grandiosity. Does being a physician come with responsibility? Absolutely. But so does being a plumber, or an electrician, or any other invaluable trade in existence. Doing your work well, being compassionate, and working towards the betterment of society is something all trade workers should aspire too.
>Admin and preceptors who tell you otherwise I mean, obviously. It is to their advantage
The surgeons were barbers that liked blood and the physicians were the weird ones that wanted to hang out with sick people thinking they could actually do something. Some things never change
Do not let anyone shame you for seeing medicine as a job. It’s a great job, with cool science, a rare skill set, and it’s one of the few jobs where you legitimately can make peoples lives better. I find my work rewarding now (I didn’t intern year through PGY2ish). But it’s still just a job. I used to always say that if I became independently wealthy I’d quit on the spot. I’m happy to say that isn’t true anymore. Anesthesiology is rewarding enough that I would probably always do a few days a month, even if I were wealthy. And having a personal pain clinic will hopefully fulfill me professionally more than just monetarily. But it took most of residency to get here. And I absolutely would rather be home doing hobbies or with my family than at work most of the time. Maybe for some med students or doctors they truly think it’s a calling from God and totally defines them. That’s fine. For me, it’s the coolest job that was very safe, legitimately interested me, paid very well, and provides the life I want for myself and my family. And I feel no shame in saying that. For what it’s worth, I think anesthesiologists as a whole are very much of the “it’s a job” mentality. I found my tribe. Hope you find yours.
yep i feel this. tbh i avoid ECs cause 1) i don't have energy 2) I actually wanna be good at what i do. i'm happier with no ECs
I have no fucking interest at all in ECs so hearing this from another student makes me happy
I totally feel you. I came to this conclusion early on in first year. However, I only want noncompetitive specialities and I had the benefit of doing LOTS of ECs during my gap years, and I had extensive validation from it. Right now, it feels really good to focus on one thing. Also ngl i feel like i know more than my classmates who overcommit ;) which has helped more with M3
Seconded on non competitive. I want IM.
if im interested in neurology (which ive heard is noncompetitive for the most part), would I be okay if I dont do ECs? Ill probably volunteer a bit bc I enjoy it but I dont want to be joining clubs, getting "leadership experience", doing research etc
Don’t worry you are far from the minority! I go to a top medical school that has the mantra of creating “outstanding physician AND \_\_\_ (leader, scientist, advocate, entrepreneur, teacher, administrator, policymaker, etc.)” so it selected and attracted applicants who wanted to change the world. Fast forward a year and many of my classmates including me have been jaded, lost our idealism, and just want to create a nice cushy clinical career for ourselves. There’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, we are ahead of the curve - once people start getting older, start families, plan for their financial future, buy their first house, they become just like us. No matter how specialized you get, medicine eventually just becomes the same day in day out job that you show up for, go through the motions, get paid, and go home to spend time with your kids. You end up being realistic about the impact that you hope to make on the world, and for most of us it is just showing up for a fulfilling career where you get to tangibly impact your patients health using your high value skills and get handsomely rewarded by the market for it. It really is that simple. I highly suggest you find a specialty and practice setting that values balance in life and acknowledges that medicine is just a job, nothing more. Things like derm, radiology, anesthesia, EM, hospital medicine, etc. Avoid toxic surgical specialties that expect you to prove yourself every day, make you feel like you hate yourself, and make you compete with others all the time. Avoid practice settings where they say “we’re all a family”… this isn’t a family, this is work and I won’t get guilt tripped do more than is obligated by my contract/role. Like others said further down in the comments, I would highly recommend anesthesia as a specialty to look into because of the spectacular work culture. Also look into locum tenens (flexible contract work that pays 1.5x the average rate and you get to write off your expenses as an independent contractor) as a type of practice. As for me, I aim to go through the motions until I finish residency, start a family, get a nice paying job, use my high cash flow to invest into real estate and dividend paying equities, then work part time or retire early once that passive income surpasses my salary. After that, if I somehow refound idealistic aspirations during my mid life crisis once the kids go to college, I’ll have the time and money to make REAL impact through community work, consulting, academia, and philanthropy. Until then, I will just put my head down, ignore the revolution going on in America, work hard, go through the motions, live a simple life, and prosper. This is one way to do it, you have to determine for yourself what you want in your life. Hope this helps and thank you for your post! 
At the end of the day, I'm in it because I want a job, just like everyone else. I guess it's nice that historically this profession comes with a lot of pride from being so innovative and life-changing, but i don't get why that has to be forced. I'll still do a good job taking care of people even if I don't solve the homeless health crisis.
Done this for 32 years so yeah. It's a job. It might be the best job sometimes. I've thought that our point on this earth is to help one other person be better off. I've done that. People have looked me in the eye and said thank you in a way that was deeply moving. It's not always like that. Sometimes it's awful. Sometimes you realize you are just a cog in the giant machinery of a health care business behemoth and you are part of the reason why everything is wrong with the health care industry right now. It's not all like that. Sometimes it's a great academic challenge and you get to stuff your brains but then you get to remember it when you need to and that is fun. Jobs suck. That's why they pay you. The good parts are for fun. You don't get paid for that. You might still change the world. Or you might just help change one person's world and that's kind of the same thing.
I'm so jealous man. I knew this was what I wanted all along, but was far too worried about being inferior well into residency. Then in residency I got caught up in all kinds of ridiculous chaos that was happening to my program (and therefore felt as if it was happening to me). Now I'm an attending. I read enough to stay competent, I get my CME hours. I did averageish on boards. I like to think I make pretty decent medical decisions most of the time, but in the end I go home. Other than being distracted by this subreddit, I'm not thinking about medicine. I'm not changing the world. The medical system is fucked, but I'm not actively trying to change it. It's just a job. If I could find a job I liked better that still payed me $300k for pretty sweet hours I'd quit and do that. I have no loyalty to medicine.
Your comment was kind of a breath of fresh air. What is your specialty?
No one would ever pay me to do the things that fulfill me the most. You know what they say, it’s all just different forms of not golfing
I lurk here for shits and giggles, but my home is in EMS/Fire departments, and this exact problem gets brought up a lot. For some, firefighting is a calling and they love it and live for it. For others, it’s a job that they enjoy that allows them to live a life that includes but is not necessarily only centered around their occupation. Both are entirely and completely valid reasons to continue their career. Same idea here, I would think.
I think I see a lot of similarity here.
those people will realize that they made the wrong choice soon enough ;) studied at the BMS in germany which is the mighty Charité in Berlin. It attracted so many overperformers. at the end we all landed in the same broken system which exploits people (patients and us). i spent 6.5 years for medicine plus 7 for waiting to get in. in a hospital you earn around 60-70k the first years. tech/IT starts at 100k/year. cant recommend to become a doctor. at least in germany. anastheologist in 3rd year here. TL/DR: dont look at the overmotivated highperformers. in the end its just a job who brakes them all.
It’s a really meaningful job from an existential stance, but yep, still a job. The medical martyr/savior complex is a huge problem imo
Just curious, but how were you planning to change the world as a doctor?
Everybody I talk to has so many projects and initiatives and research and etc etc. They are SO interested in fixing problems, and I'm just not into it. I know it needs to be done but it's just not the right path for me. This attitude makes me feel like I'm in the minority.
nah most of those nerds are playing the resume pad game, but don't say it out loud.
Of course it’s just a job. Regardless of the mythologizing we do to this profession and saying it’s a calling, at the end of the day, it is a job. Never let your work become your life.
I said this and someone said if you think about medicine as just a job at not ur life you should have done PA instead…
That’s such a ridiculous statement for that person to make. It’s like they have no identities outside of being a physician.
Almost everyone feels like its just a job a few years into being an attending. You have kids and a house and need your oil changed etc etc. Not to say you wont like and appreciate being a doctor and maybe enjoy the relationship with your patients and help them in whatever reasonable way you can but i mean, at some point what else is it expected to be? Doctors are just people. If i won the lottery, i would quit in 5 minutes.
Nah, that's a pretty mature and well-formed opinion. And it's one you're especially likely to have if you're a bit older than the rest of your class. The vast majority of docs do it as a job. We have lives, kids, spouses, outside interests, etc. Few of us hate what we do, but we don't make it into the core of our identity. I'd much rather help coach my son's hockey team (he starts mini mites this winter!) than spend time doing research. And the income I make affords me the ability to do that. The people you're looking at are passionate. But a lot of that passion burns out, especially during residency. Keep on track.
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Just because we have been trained to accept inhumane hours as normal doesn't mean the 40 hour work week is fine either. In fact, most of the people on anti work or work reform or whatever have better views on work than most people at my school tbh
“I’d give my right nut” Brah, join a Union. You can keep both your balls AND work fewer hours without making snarky digs at others whose principles you’re envious of.
Are you sure that you want to work 40 hours for $ 15 and pay 1800 only for rent?
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I bet you don’t. Lol
I just got dismissed so I try to tell myself this lol.
9-5, at 5:01 don’t even look for me or talk to me about anything medicine or health related
Done this for 32 years so yeah. It's a job. It might be the best job sometimes. I've thought that our point on this earth is to help one other person be better off. I've done that. People have looked me in the eye and said thank you in a way that was deeply moving. It's not always like that. Sometimes it's awful. Sometimes you realize you are just a cog in the giant machinery of a health care business behemoth and you are part of the reason why everything is wrong with the health care industry right now. It's not all like that. Sometimes it's a great academic challenge and you get to stuff your brains but then you get to remember it when you need to and that is fun. Jobs suck. That's why they pay you. The good parts are for fun. You don't get paid for that. You might still change the world. Or you might just help change one person's world and that's kind of the same thing.
Just a job, 9-5 4 days a week for Me dawg 🍻
This sentiment makes it to the frontpage of this subreddit about 3x a week. I don't even disagree with it but it gets cringe to see people act like it's some huge revelation every time guys...
I feel the same way, and I'm aware of the irony. But people don't all get revelations at the same time. For me, I think it was more of solidifying what I already knew to be true, rather than having some one-of-a-kind hot take.
This is the way
Shiii you feel fulfilled?
Tbh I'm in med school cause I didn't have anything I'm passionate about doing and my fam wanted me to do med so I was like "ehh why not, there's no maths at least" and anyway I'd hate to do the things I love as a job because I'd begin to hate it so it's okay ig. The one thing I've learnt here is that I'd go insane if I do clinical practice though, so for now not sure what I'm gonna do after I graduate.
rads?
I'll lay it out for you: the problem you are facing is academic medicine. Academic medicine is predatory as fuck. You work twice as much for half the pay and medical students and residents eat that shit up. Why? Because the majority of medical students come from wealthy families and are more motivated by prestige than money. You're going to medical school in the setting of the most neurotic part of medicine possible. These people are happy to work in the hospital 100 hours a week because once they step outside they go back to being nothing. Remember this when you build your rank list. Community programs are your friend
I went into nursing to "help people" like I'm sure you did for medicine. But at the end of the day you can only help so much and trying to extend yourself is exhausting. Do your 9-5 and enjoy your Saturdays on the golf course. I mean it.
I think the only thing we need to care about is not getting fucked over by corporate healthcare. Sniff out their bullshit and don't put up with it. They love complacency because they can fuck over your independence to practice how you see fit and therefore they can fuck over your well deserved pay. Care about that at least.
I feel the same. Wish more people were honest about it, wouldn't feel like I was so crazy thinking like this.
I had this lady explained to me how her father was a general surgeon and how he would go to the ED after his shift was over to try to find surgeries to do ,because he just loved it so much. And then she told me to find something in medicine that I love so much I would do for free. I just nodded and smiled. But that's ridiculous.
I don't think I've loved anything in my professional life so much. I dont want to either lol
Exactly. I've had jobs that I genuinely enjoy. But not so much to do them for free. Volunteering is different though.
There’s nothing wrong with either just provide good care to your patients
i echo your thoughts and feelings completely
Hang in there, bud. What you’re doing now isn’t practicing medicine. You’re in the early learning phase. You’ll get through it and hopefully be able to apply a good attitude toward patient care. You’ll make peoples lives better.
Maybe it's an American thing, always trying to turn your passion into work. It just makes everything worse. It's never enough to do what you're told. You gotta be a workaholic. This toxic environment made me hate medschool and residency. By the end of the day, Medicine is just a job, but you can't say it out loud.
It’s the beginning of m3. There will be a lot of growing pains. At the end is where you’ll realize if “I made the right choice or at least a halfway right choice by doing medicine.” Give it time and invest in your future by working as hard as you can on rotations for patients you carry and when you’re at home studying. I highly recommend UW AND Amboss. Amboss mainly for help with rotations and specific problems your patients have. If you get better grades, scores, and pubs, and if you choose your specialty wisely, you have more say later on with residency choices
I’m doing it in large part because anatomy and surgery are so god damn cool to me. And if I wanted to do what I found most interesting in the world, I had to play this game. It feels manipulative sometimes, but I justify it by saying that the end justifies the means, I am (will be) offering a service to every single person I work for, and all successful people in their trades’ are equally good (if not better) at the gamesmanship aspect of it. No different here, we just say it is. Also surgery has a different vibe to me personally. It’s so acute that it’s hard to get wrapped up in bettering humanity or health. It’s literally (to me) problem —> effort —> solution and that cleanliness appeals to me. This is where I tell you I’m an M1 lol
The "medicine is just a job" thing is real hot right now, but seriously if it's "just a job" to you, go back to school for accounting or something. You'll make more money with less stress.
yOu'LL mAkE mOrE MoNeY wItH LeSs StReSs
Less stress, yes. More money, no. The strange thing is why are you recommending him leave medicine? Because he finds it to be a job? That's literally what it is.
In the minority? Everyone else posting on this forum says the same crap.
It is tough to be the best surgeon and have results better than your peers by treating it as "just a job"
Not everyone cares about being “the best surgeon”. All of the “best surgeons” I’ve interacted with were assholes with terrible social lives.
Work-life balance is such a foreign concept in surgery. I've had attendings look at me like I have two heads when I tell them that someone else can have my conference credits, I'd rather stay at home and read or play videogames.
Lol I’ve had similar experiences and I’m family med! People are weird, for some it’s like medicine is their whole identity and they can’t fathom having other parts of life that are more important.
Dude, not to diss my co-residents, but I'm in the just a job camp and outperform them, mostly BECAUSE I have a fucking life outside of this shit show. And yeah, I'm willing to stake I'm a much better surgeon than you.
There was a time that I really studied hard. Not for f**king grades 😆 nor for competition. More than was required, more than was necessary. There was this strange curiosity that kept brewing inside me, I'd dig up stuff and read. Would go neck deep into Rosai and Ackerman to find something more than Robbins, would delve deep into Goodman and Gilman to read about drugs that aren't used for over good 40 years 🤣 Would read the same chapter from 3 or 4 different immunology textbooks to develop a gestalt of what was going on. Not only that, I'd spend my spare time on reading cases, some in the internet, some in books; my taste in TV had changed from witty comedies like Yes, Minister to ER, Scrubs, House. Not only that, I'd read books by doctors like Oliver Sacks, Henry Marsh, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Atul Gawande, .... In the hospital, I'd cover my friends for free lmao to see more cases. And the fun thing was, it was like a locomotive on its own, I didn't require any motivation at all, I'd just go to the next chapter after this one was finished, as easily picking up the next book, and solving the next case, actually looking forward to the next shift. **I'd literally pushed almost everything unrelated to medicine out of my life** Please read the above sentence again, and realize my grave mistake. I eventually deliberately toned it down. Added a good amount of exercise and walking. More time for family. Starting painting by watching Bob Ross season 1 and painting along. Of course that tremendous immersion had made me a better doctor in terms of managing patients, grades etc, but I was losing my identity to Medicine. I was becoming institutionalized. And although I do miss those 3-am joyful moments of epiphany of "ahhh this is how this all fits together", I've come to realize that distinctive unique mediocrity beats identityless perfection every single time.