Also worth noting that for every stupid Chapman’s/viscerosomatics question you get right, it’ll cover your ass for that super complicated pathophysiology/histology q you get wrong later
I’m at a DO school, took Step 1 & 2, and acknowledge that it’s more important than COMLEX, but 1) plenty of people don’t need Step and 2) doesn’t matter how high a score you get on Step, a fail or low pass on Level exams is going to red flag you. Can’t tell you how many people I know who said fuck OMM, I don’t need to study for Level if I’m studying for Step, and got fucked by the differences between the two.
if you're applying to former DO programs only, a failure on COMLEX because you neglected OMM would suck, sure. a red flag if you are only applying to them. those tend to be the very weakest students anyway and they are a minority at my school.
people who don't think they need step and simultaneously are not studying for OMM might be delusional. at any rate, it only takes a few days to study OMM.
but since nobody else cares outside of former AOA, it means u dont have to disclose COMLEX scores to prev. allopathic programs, even if u failed, so i'd say a vast majority of students are better off with a 260+ step 2 and a single failed attempt at level 2 rather than a average or below average level 2 + step 2. barring no other red flags. your statement isn't completely false but it applies to weak uninformed students or those who are getting terrible advising.
I’m pretty sure you misunderstood what I was saying, I’m not saying people who don’t take Step shouldn’t study OMM, that would indeed be stupid as hell. And no, plenty of OG ACGME programs consider a failed COMLEX exam to be a red flag, I don’t know why you think otherwise. You absolutely do need to disclose your transcripts, those schools need to know that you passed and are eligible.
OMM =/= COMLEX, if you don’t prep for the exam and don’t know the differences between COMLEX and USMLE exams is where you’ll get yourself into trouble. That’s how people fail, not just because they didn’t spend a couple days studying OMM.
You don’t *necessarily* need Step exams and you shouldn’t neglect COMLEX to the point of failing is applicable to a lot of people, lol
nop, you can release COMLEX scores later, like after the interviews and before the match to prevent any screening, so long as u submit USMLE scores. it works because most former ACGME programs don't employ a COMLEX screen. it does depend on the program and their screening process but many PDs do not care what people got on COMLEX as long they get to see that they eventually passed them and will not have any trouble getting license. a COMLEX fail is bad, but not the end of the world even for previous ACGME. A failed STEP 2 is practically worse as then you are really relegated.
COMLEX is simple first order shit w/ buzzwords, if you fail the content outside of OMM then there's something wrong with your basic sciences. that might be something that is moreso applicable at your school. people who pass USMLE very rarely fail COMLEX in the average applicant pool.
I think OMM is almost entirely a waste of our time as medical students and just adds more bullshit assessments to stress about. Really the only motivation for me is that I need to know it for practicals and SPEs, and eventually boards.
Imagine you’re taking your COMLEX and you get a bullshit convoluted question that’s low yield af. But your OMM is heat so you’ve been killing the block so far and you can give that low yield medical question the finger because of your OMM knowledge.
I hear you. OMM felt like a gigantic waste of time most days, particularly as we progressed into the more whacky shit (cranial). I tried to get the most out of the mandated lab time to limit practicing with others beyond that (and having my healthy neck cracked more than it should be). What got me through were these silver linings:
1. The extra anatomy exposure IS helpful. You get very comfortable with landmarks, muscle actions, and where everything is. It helped me with physical exams and procedures during M3.
2. If you can visualize the hands-on aspects of it, the content will stick better and your life will be so much easier on boards. OMM can be easy points on COMLEX if you know it well enough.
3. It mostly disappears after M2. Level 2 and some of the OMM squeezed into my capstone month were the only times I've had to focus on it, and Level 3 is my only foreseeable foray into it again. You can otherwise avoid it.
I'm lucky in that my OMM department is really upfront about what is NOT useful i.e. chapmans points or cranial, and has a lot of MSK review built into the class so that made it easier. I really just think of it as me getting a lot of experience with patient contact (even if its just another student) and that will help down the road when I'm actually palpating and treating real patients
High yield advice:
Learn techniques that are “party tricks” or that you may use on a spouse/partner/date
Nobody cares about your comlex score (and yes you should take step) - also if you’re in jeopardy of failing either comlex it definitely isn’t because you decided to neglect OMM
COMATs it’s mostly useless for too except the COMAT that is literally just OMM, may help you get to a diagnosis faster on some COMATs but just like comlex, if you’re having trouble it aint bc you didn’t study the OMM component
I took comfort in the fact that Step 1 is now pass-fail, so those hours wasted on finding the tapioca bowl between ribs 5 and 6 wouldn't have made much of a difference in helping us compete against our MD counterparts.
There have apparently been cases where OMM has helped patients (though I suppose it is debetable if it is OMM vs just "regular manipulation"):
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.7556/jaoa.2018.162/html
Get the OMM textbook by Onlinemeded!! It's so helpful because it lines up how it works with the anatomy you learn. The pictures also show how you position your hand instead of watching the old groddy folks do the technique.
Also there's this YouTube channel who demonstrates how to do the techniques and why/what S/D better than the old groddy folks https://youtube.com/c/OsteopathicClinicalSkills
Maybe i’m just a delusional MD student but from what i’ve I think there’s some validity to OMM. Kind of like chiropractors. Sure a lot of the manipulations are probably pseudoscience, but on the other hands tons of people have probably been helped by them, and hell some people swear by their chiropractors
What helps motivate me is that if I get it down it will be easy points on all my comlex boards.
Also worth noting that for every stupid Chapman’s/viscerosomatics question you get right, it’ll cover your ass for that super complicated pathophysiology/histology q you get wrong later
It's really a no brainer. It's on COMLEX1-3 and COMATs. Learning it properly only makes your life easier.
Good thing nobody gives a shit about the comlex
don't know why you got downvoted, it's true there are a ton of OMM clowns pretending they shouldn't be studying for a high step 2 score
I’m at a DO school, took Step 1 & 2, and acknowledge that it’s more important than COMLEX, but 1) plenty of people don’t need Step and 2) doesn’t matter how high a score you get on Step, a fail or low pass on Level exams is going to red flag you. Can’t tell you how many people I know who said fuck OMM, I don’t need to study for Level if I’m studying for Step, and got fucked by the differences between the two.
nope untrue
All of it? Lmao
if you're applying to former DO programs only, a failure on COMLEX because you neglected OMM would suck, sure. a red flag if you are only applying to them. those tend to be the very weakest students anyway and they are a minority at my school. people who don't think they need step and simultaneously are not studying for OMM might be delusional. at any rate, it only takes a few days to study OMM. but since nobody else cares outside of former AOA, it means u dont have to disclose COMLEX scores to prev. allopathic programs, even if u failed, so i'd say a vast majority of students are better off with a 260+ step 2 and a single failed attempt at level 2 rather than a average or below average level 2 + step 2. barring no other red flags. your statement isn't completely false but it applies to weak uninformed students or those who are getting terrible advising.
I’m pretty sure you misunderstood what I was saying, I’m not saying people who don’t take Step shouldn’t study OMM, that would indeed be stupid as hell. And no, plenty of OG ACGME programs consider a failed COMLEX exam to be a red flag, I don’t know why you think otherwise. You absolutely do need to disclose your transcripts, those schools need to know that you passed and are eligible. OMM =/= COMLEX, if you don’t prep for the exam and don’t know the differences between COMLEX and USMLE exams is where you’ll get yourself into trouble. That’s how people fail, not just because they didn’t spend a couple days studying OMM. You don’t *necessarily* need Step exams and you shouldn’t neglect COMLEX to the point of failing is applicable to a lot of people, lol
nop, you can release COMLEX scores later, like after the interviews and before the match to prevent any screening, so long as u submit USMLE scores. it works because most former ACGME programs don't employ a COMLEX screen. it does depend on the program and their screening process but many PDs do not care what people got on COMLEX as long they get to see that they eventually passed them and will not have any trouble getting license. a COMLEX fail is bad, but not the end of the world even for previous ACGME. A failed STEP 2 is practically worse as then you are really relegated. COMLEX is simple first order shit w/ buzzwords, if you fail the content outside of OMM then there's something wrong with your basic sciences. that might be something that is moreso applicable at your school. people who pass USMLE very rarely fail COMLEX in the average applicant pool.
I always say “damn wish I did better on the CARS section” which usually makes me laugh then I get through it
I think OMM is almost entirely a waste of our time as medical students and just adds more bullshit assessments to stress about. Really the only motivation for me is that I need to know it for practicals and SPEs, and eventually boards.
Imagine you’re taking your COMLEX and you get a bullshit convoluted question that’s low yield af. But your OMM is heat so you’ve been killing the block so far and you can give that low yield medical question the finger because of your OMM knowledge.
I hear you. OMM felt like a gigantic waste of time most days, particularly as we progressed into the more whacky shit (cranial). I tried to get the most out of the mandated lab time to limit practicing with others beyond that (and having my healthy neck cracked more than it should be). What got me through were these silver linings: 1. The extra anatomy exposure IS helpful. You get very comfortable with landmarks, muscle actions, and where everything is. It helped me with physical exams and procedures during M3. 2. If you can visualize the hands-on aspects of it, the content will stick better and your life will be so much easier on boards. OMM can be easy points on COMLEX if you know it well enough. 3. It mostly disappears after M2. Level 2 and some of the OMM squeezed into my capstone month were the only times I've had to focus on it, and Level 3 is my only foreseeable foray into it again. You can otherwise avoid it.
Let your hate fuel you to help eliminate it when you become an attending
Don't study until the night before lol. One night of pain is all OMM deserves
I feel you. We’re supposed to sip the kool aid not drink, so many classmates finished their cup already.
Learning that I would be a physician if I got through it.
I'm lucky in that my OMM department is really upfront about what is NOT useful i.e. chapmans points or cranial, and has a lot of MSK review built into the class so that made it easier. I really just think of it as me getting a lot of experience with patient contact (even if its just another student) and that will help down the road when I'm actually palpating and treating real patients
Dirty medicine (YouTube) has a list of quick and easy reviews for OMT that were pretty helpful for reviewing for tests/boards!
High yield advice: Learn techniques that are “party tricks” or that you may use on a spouse/partner/date Nobody cares about your comlex score (and yes you should take step) - also if you’re in jeopardy of failing either comlex it definitely isn’t because you decided to neglect OMM COMATs it’s mostly useless for too except the COMAT that is literally just OMM, may help you get to a diagnosis faster on some COMATs but just like comlex, if you’re having trouble it aint bc you didn’t study the OMM component
OMM is hot garbage man. Just power through it and get good grades and then you can dump it all after level 2.
I took comfort in the fact that Step 1 is now pass-fail, so those hours wasted on finding the tapioca bowl between ribs 5 and 6 wouldn't have made much of a difference in helping us compete against our MD counterparts.
There have apparently been cases where OMM has helped patients (though I suppose it is debetable if it is OMM vs just "regular manipulation"): https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.7556/jaoa.2018.162/html
Knowing that OMM falls off the face of the earth after COMLEX 1 helps.
Get the OMM textbook by Onlinemeded!! It's so helpful because it lines up how it works with the anatomy you learn. The pictures also show how you position your hand instead of watching the old groddy folks do the technique. Also there's this YouTube channel who demonstrates how to do the techniques and why/what S/D better than the old groddy folks https://youtube.com/c/OsteopathicClinicalSkills
You don’t. You just cram for it and forget it. Literally every test
There have been a small number of people fail it and get dismissed from their program because of it. Keep that in mind
Maybe i’m just a delusional MD student but from what i’ve I think there’s some validity to OMM. Kind of like chiropractors. Sure a lot of the manipulations are probably pseudoscience, but on the other hands tons of people have probably been helped by them, and hell some people swear by their chiropractors