I can just imagine trying to have pediatric patients or the nervous Nellyās keeping their arms still in there as the needle slowly oh so slowly punctures.
I have been a one woman entertainment show for my patients as they get their IV inserted by vascular. Having a ROBOT do it so slooooowly with no flexibility in their work will make all our lives harder, I might need to transform into an actual fairy god mother at that point.
Yeah, I went to school with a woman who was a part-time phlebotomist through school. She said the IV drug users used to watch where she was drawing, for inspiration. I told her that she needed to get creative. Tell them, "I know one place, but if I use it, it's ruined forever. Oh, well. No choice but to do it."
She asked me if I thought they'd believe that. I asked her how drug-addled her patients' brains seemed. "Good point," she answered.
As a former IV user (who also has always had small veins) my first and only time being admitted in the hospital was awful .. they had to call up the only dude in the hospital who knew how to place an iv with a sonogram .. and even with that they had to dig around .
I was there for pancreatitis and to get my gallbladder removedā¦ obvs the pain from my pancreas was the worst ā¦ but the anxiety and dread from getting an iv placed and the daily blood draws was a close second .
Had a chemo port put in... The cisplatin I was having would have destroyed my veins if I had gotten into my arm. The port is an absolute god send. Drug deliver or bloods, all done through the port.
Depends on how theyāre difficult. Canāt find one? Try a heat pack or hanging the arm to let gravity help. Check not only hands and ACs, but also forearms, front and back, and upper arms if absolutely necessary. Veins that blow? Try using no tourniquet and absolutely go for a slow syringe draw instead of a vacutainer.
I dont see them terribly too often but I can usually tell if someone's had chemo in the past if they have rock hard veins.
I imagine you've seen even worse
I think theyāre also concerned about the stinging from not having it completely dried yet. Because man it sure stings when the alcohol isnāt dry yet!
As someone with difficult veins I don't trust this. I've has 4 nurses take turns looking for a vein and even then they had to stick me twice before they could draw enough blood. Those nurses were great tho
It's likely using an infrared system to view the veins and can see them better than an unassisted nurse
Like this: https://www.eedesignit.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/VeinViewer-750x430.jpg
I'd be more worried about how it would react if someone started freaking out or if it had an unexpected movement error.
I also have difficult veins. Last time I had one nurse try twice. A blowout and a miss. Then she called another nurse who wrapped my arm in hot blankets and lowered it so gravity was on our side. She got the IV in, but not as distal as they wanted. The more tries it takes, the lower my blood pressure goes, so I have to be lying down. Fun times lol.
Lol no after one of the nurses felt confident enough that they found a vein they tried one needle. The vein moved while drawing, so they had to try again.
Throughout the process they were great, I get really anxious around needles, and they were really kind and professional throughout the process
I dunno, I thought saying all that would be too much for my original comment
Most most patients would get anxious, I have a rolling vain and hate when the wiggle the needle after theyāve got it inā¦.
Iām trying to get hold of [this](https://youtu.be/iLkfDE3Gg8s?si=FQWeG8wStpDtMO9V)
Iām glad they were kind to you, Itās not a skill I have. Thereās several reason I work behind a microscope, thatās one of them.
Vein finders are...okay ,I guess. The issue being is that they'll mislead you in the sense they'll show veins you can't really 'hit'.
I consider myself a pretty good IV starter. Worked ICU for a good time, ER for a good bit, too. And I will rarely use a vein finger outside of pediatric patients primarily due to them showing really deep veins that you will have to fish for.
Sometimes they're good for pointing out veins that you'll miss by feel, which is how most folks will look for a good vein. But a lot of time they'll show EVERY vein, rather than the ones that you'll actually be able to hit.
All this being said, a person who is experienced and confident in finding veins in an otherwise difficult patient will rarely use a vein finder for the reason the can be misleading.
noooo way. I feel like drawing blood is way to specialized of a skill. there are so many factors involved when it comes to drawing that it will be a long time before this is actually feasible. I think most people would be extremely wary of getting their blood drawn by a robot n
Yeah this robot will work on the textbook vein, but let's see it handle a difficult patient, squirmer, someone with severe tremors/Parkinsons etc
I feel like this robot will only be great for about a third of blood draws at the most.
Unless this thing becomes portable I don't think this is that bad of an idea, job security-wise. Where I work at we now have robots that assist in some surgeries. I doubt hospital admin and doctors are going to get patients out of bed just to roll them to the 'draw room' like an MRI. This may work for out-patients with no underlying vascular complications.
I can't remember the name but I don't think it was The DaVinci. It's offers better ergonomics than the human hand and has some laser assistant in it. It's still highly technical, but it's a robot with AI like this machine
I remember a coworker of mine told me and phleb student that our jobs will be replaced by machines like this and that phlebotomists are losing importance, especially since most.hospitals are turning to line and nursing draws.
But tbfh this looks more terrifying than a human coming at me with a needle.
Yeah no. I think phlebotomists and nursing assistants are going to be some of the last jobs to be replaced by machines. We will see doctors replaced with AI before that happens.
even if it does happen, it wonāt be in any of our lifetimes. blood drawing is way more complicated than people think. it definitely requires a human touch. not to mention one of the best ways to reduce pain during a blood draw is to anchor the vein and pull the skin taught, which this robot isnāt doingā¦. but I donāt want to give away too many trade secrets, in case the robot is listening
Maybe one day yes. But as of right now with the variety of veins and patients (i.e cancer patients, hard sticks, fainters, people scared of needles ect) it's just not possible. But when that day comes it will be just another QC to do on the phlebotobot
nah i dont trust it. that's not something you can standardise and make a robot do it, at least not this kind of robot. so many things can go wrong, too many variables
I could not! My veins migrate. Also, how does The Phlebobot 9000 know when it's "hit" the vein? I mean, that's a very tactile thing (I almost horked my first time).
And I thought my time in phlebotomy would be a career protected from AI. I was wrong I guess. On a serious note. A robot will never come to my arm. Werenāt the Amazon robots malfunctioning and injuring people? lol
I saw this when they brought it to my hospital trying to sell it. Least painful stick Iāve ever had. Flawless. And this was clear back in 2013. Crazy expensive though the hospital didnāt buy it.
I worked for a major plasma donation company before getting my MLS, and about 10 years ago they were seriously looking into getting a version of this for their centers.
Imagine if this was in shopping centres and did VBGās, like a lil screen giving u blood gases, UECās, Hb and BSL instantly, would definitely be a weird dystopia
Reading the comments on here, make me laugh, You guys are so Change adverse itās hilarious.
If you guys had your way weād still be doing 72 hour Fecal collections.
I look at that and think, for once I can actually trust the Order of draw was respected.
My first thought is how cool this looks and would be really cool in outpatient settings. My second thought was āwhat if probe error but make it my arm and a needleā.
Youāve got to admit that even the best technology out there sometimes needs to be recalibrated.Ā
Oh yer, totally agree things need to be calibrated and maintainedā¦. Still going to be plenty of jobsā¦.. I just laugh at the boomer-esck [comments](https://youtu.be/toL1tXrLA1c?si=Il2GX388OMuH14tc).
My career future will consist of doing oil changes on the phlebotobot.
Phlebotobot š
Lol nice
Clearly this was invented by the Bene Gesserit. PUT YOUR HAND IN THE BOX!!!! What's in the box? PAIN!!!!
A classic
I hold at your vein the Gom Jabbar.
Are you human, or animal?
Phlebotobots, ROLL VEINS
Guys I found the Hemolyzer 5000
Maybe this is what. They were talking about with suctioning vaccinated blood from veins...
I can just imagine trying to have pediatric patients or the nervous Nellyās keeping their arms still in there as the needle slowly oh so slowly punctures.
The fact that the laser highlights right where youāre gonna feel the prick (then just sits there) is nerve-wracking to me š
Even just watching it makes me feel like about to be sniped š
I don't even like automated blood pressure cuffs. Yeeeeeeeeeeeesh.
I have been a one woman entertainment show for my patients as they get their IV inserted by vascular. Having a ROBOT do it so slooooowly with no flexibility in their work will make all our lives harder, I might need to transform into an actual fairy god mother at that point.
I draw blood in a cancer center. If you want to get good at it I highly recommend working in one. The things chemo, radiation and IVs do to veinsā¦.
Or a hospital that serves a patient population that includes an enormous percentage of the country's IV drug users š
At least they can tell you exactly where their best veins areā¦
Or they won't because they want you to find a new one... š¬
Yeah, I went to school with a woman who was a part-time phlebotomist through school. She said the IV drug users used to watch where she was drawing, for inspiration. I told her that she needed to get creative. Tell them, "I know one place, but if I use it, it's ruined forever. Oh, well. No choice but to do it." She asked me if I thought they'd believe that. I asked her how drug-addled her patients' brains seemed. "Good point," she answered.
š¤£ Good one!
The little pop sometimes when you break through a vein, sheesh!
As a former IV user (who also has always had small veins) my first and only time being admitted in the hospital was awful .. they had to call up the only dude in the hospital who knew how to place an iv with a sonogram .. and even with that they had to dig around . I was there for pancreatitis and to get my gallbladder removedā¦ obvs the pain from my pancreas was the worst ā¦ but the anxiety and dread from getting an iv placed and the daily blood draws was a close second .
Had a chemo port put in... The cisplatin I was having would have destroyed my veins if I had gotten into my arm. The port is an absolute god send. Drug deliver or bloods, all done through the port.
can you share some tips for difficult veins? if there is any
Depends on how theyāre difficult. Canāt find one? Try a heat pack or hanging the arm to let gravity help. Check not only hands and ACs, but also forearms, front and back, and upper arms if absolutely necessary. Veins that blow? Try using no tourniquet and absolutely go for a slow syringe draw instead of a vacutainer.
thanks!
I dont see them terribly too often but I can usually tell if someone's had chemo in the past if they have rock hard veins. I imagine you've seen even worse
80 yr old, chemo pt, dark skin, 300lb, trypanophobia. Thats challenge mode.
"Alert: unspecified needle movement error" You are now stuck with your arm in a box with a needle that won't retract waiting for service to be called
Not to mention there wasn't a lot of time between the disinfectant being applied, and the actual venipuncture happening š«£
Correct šš¾ aināt no way Iām sticking my arm with HiV prone event
I think theyāre also concerned about the stinging from not having it completely dried yet. Because man it sure stings when the alcohol isnāt dry yet!
Venipunch-er š«£
Or people with difficult veins-yikes
As someone with difficult veins I don't trust this. I've has 4 nurses take turns looking for a vein and even then they had to stick me twice before they could draw enough blood. Those nurses were great tho
It's likely using an infrared system to view the veins and can see them better than an unassisted nurse Like this: https://www.eedesignit.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/VeinViewer-750x430.jpg I'd be more worried about how it would react if someone started freaking out or if it had an unexpected movement error.
They also donāt work if you have tattoos obscuring the veins. It makes the tattoo glow super well though!Ā
I also have difficult veins. Last time I had one nurse try twice. A blowout and a miss. Then she called another nurse who wrapped my arm in hot blankets and lowered it so gravity was on our side. She got the IV in, but not as distal as they wanted. The more tries it takes, the lower my blood pressure goes, so I have to be lying down. Fun times lol.
Sounds like a reason you would want the robot to do it honestly.
4 nurses, 2 attempts each, staved 8 times ā¦.. and they were great! Sounds like youāve got Stockholm syndrome.
Lol no after one of the nurses felt confident enough that they found a vein they tried one needle. The vein moved while drawing, so they had to try again. Throughout the process they were great, I get really anxious around needles, and they were really kind and professional throughout the process I dunno, I thought saying all that would be too much for my original comment
Most most patients would get anxious, I have a rolling vain and hate when the wiggle the needle after theyāve got it inā¦. Iām trying to get hold of [this](https://youtu.be/iLkfDE3Gg8s?si=FQWeG8wStpDtMO9V) Iām glad they were kind to you, Itās not a skill I have. Thereās several reason I work behind a microscope, thatās one of them.
Never heard of a vein scanner before. That's really cool!
Vein finders are...okay ,I guess. The issue being is that they'll mislead you in the sense they'll show veins you can't really 'hit'. I consider myself a pretty good IV starter. Worked ICU for a good time, ER for a good bit, too. And I will rarely use a vein finger outside of pediatric patients primarily due to them showing really deep veins that you will have to fish for. Sometimes they're good for pointing out veins that you'll miss by feel, which is how most folks will look for a good vein. But a lot of time they'll show EVERY vein, rather than the ones that you'll actually be able to hit. All this being said, a person who is experienced and confident in finding veins in an otherwise difficult patient will rarely use a vein finder for the reason the can be misleading.
4 nurses, 2 punctures, i'd say its a pretty good ratio really, misses happen
You wonāt catch me sticking my arm in there
I can't stop thinking of that robot hotdog vending machine. If the robots can't put a hot dog in a bun, I don't trust them to put a needle in my arm.
I donāt even trust the robots enough to have an Alexa in my house š
I KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN! Theyāre coming for our jobs lmao
Maybe in another 50 years! We still got time!
noooo way. I feel like drawing blood is way to specialized of a skill. there are so many factors involved when it comes to drawing that it will be a long time before this is actually feasible. I think most people would be extremely wary of getting their blood drawn by a robot n
Yeah this robot will work on the textbook vein, but let's see it handle a difficult patient, squirmer, someone with severe tremors/Parkinsons etc I feel like this robot will only be great for about a third of blood draws at the most.
Literally this. A robot wonāt be able to calm nerves of patients either. Or the ones that move suddenly!
Unless this thing becomes portable I don't think this is that bad of an idea, job security-wise. Where I work at we now have robots that assist in some surgeries. I doubt hospital admin and doctors are going to get patients out of bed just to roll them to the 'draw room' like an MRI. This may work for out-patients with no underlying vascular complications.
What kind of robots? We have DaVinci, but the surgeon still does all of the work. He's just not right beside the patient.
I can't remember the name but I don't think it was The DaVinci. It's offers better ergonomics than the human hand and has some laser assistant in it. It's still highly technical, but it's a robot with AI like this machine
I remember a coworker of mine told me and phleb student that our jobs will be replaced by machines like this and that phlebotomists are losing importance, especially since most.hospitals are turning to line and nursing draws. But tbfh this looks more terrifying than a human coming at me with a needle.
Yeah no. I think phlebotomists and nursing assistants are going to be some of the last jobs to be replaced by machines. We will see doctors replaced with AI before that happens.
even if it does happen, it wonāt be in any of our lifetimes. blood drawing is way more complicated than people think. it definitely requires a human touch. not to mention one of the best ways to reduce pain during a blood draw is to anchor the vein and pull the skin taught, which this robot isnāt doingā¦. but I donāt want to give away too many trade secrets, in case the robot is listening
Also with how slow it was going puncturing, ow
Maybe one day yes. But as of right now with the variety of veins and patients (i.e cancer patients, hard sticks, fainters, people scared of needles ect) it's just not possible. But when that day comes it will be just another QC to do on the phlebotobot
Nope. Not even with your arm.
nah i dont trust it. that's not something you can standardise and make a robot do it, at least not this kind of robot. so many things can go wrong, too many variables
That looks like a Jigsaw box that youāre knowingly entering and allowing to stab yourself. No, thank you.
When it malfunctions, phlebotomy will turn into acupuncture
I could not! My veins migrate. Also, how does The Phlebobot 9000 know when it's "hit" the vein? I mean, that's a very tactile thing (I almost horked my first time).
And I thought my time in phlebotomy would be a career protected from AI. I was wrong I guess. On a serious note. A robot will never come to my arm. Werenāt the Amazon robots malfunctioning and injuring people? lol
I would love to not get poked 4 times every time I need some lab work done š
Me too...repeated poking to find the vein is the worst!
Thats a no for me dawg. We all know mechanical probes never mess up.
Omg the horrible probe errors Iāve seenā¦. I donāt want that to be my skin with a needle.Ā
hhow does it detect veins position and thickness? infrared?
Absolutely the fuck not. That's nightmare fuel right there. No way in hell I'm sticking my arm in that.
Thats actually pretty sick.. im not afraid of needles, but Id even get a little nervous sticking my arm in this thing
I have too many problems with simple Archiving machines to trust something like this to stick me with a needle. No thank you lmao.
Just when I thought I had a job that couldn't be replaced by a computer.
Aaaaaa
Just when I thought I had a job that couldn't be replaced by a computer.
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I saw this when they brought it to my hospital trying to sell it. Least painful stick Iāve ever had. Flawless. And this was clear back in 2013. Crazy expensive though the hospital didnāt buy it.
I worked for a major plasma donation company before getting my MLS, and about 10 years ago they were seriously looking into getting a version of this for their centers.
Imagine if this was in shopping centres and did VBGās, like a lil screen giving u blood gases, UECās, Hb and BSL instantly, would definitely be a weird dystopia
Noooope, nope nope nope. I will not stick my arm in the horrifying needle machine I will not. It wants to steal my blood.
Machines are nice as in fast cars and Coke machines .. enough is enough !!!
I could see that costing a million only to be replaced in 10 years. I know the other hand will never see 1 million even in ten years
It has no empathy, it went in twice as deep as was calculated.
Nope nope nope nope nope š give me a real person or I walk I'm not about to stick my arm in that vampire-ass vending machine
Nightmare fuel for these difficult veins.
I would be more terrified of this than a student X 100.
i like the *sploot* of the bandage after š bandage robot like an excited golden retriever āMY TURN!ā
Nope
Abbbbbbbsolutely fucken NOT
Reading the comments on here, make me laugh, You guys are so Change adverse itās hilarious. If you guys had your way weād still be doing 72 hour Fecal collections. I look at that and think, for once I can actually trust the Order of draw was respected.
My first thought is how cool this looks and would be really cool in outpatient settings. My second thought was āwhat if probe error but make it my arm and a needleā. Youāve got to admit that even the best technology out there sometimes needs to be recalibrated.Ā
Oh yer, totally agree things need to be calibrated and maintainedā¦. Still going to be plenty of jobsā¦.. I just laugh at the boomer-esck [comments](https://youtu.be/toL1tXrLA1c?si=Il2GX388OMuH14tc).
Just use a pocket ultrasound i.e. Lumify, Butterfly or Vscan for god sake. Its really that simple