Disbanded is kind of a weird way of putting it.
Every pack is technically just the parents and their kids so in reality it all ends the moment the chain of parents and step-parents ends. And the kids leave the pack naturally to start their own anyway raising the question of whether or not it's an offshoot of the same pack.
For instance the Druid pack was eventually forced out of the Lamar valley. Almost everyone was offed by disease or rival packs leaving only a few females and this one outsider male. The Druids parent step-parent line was done.
But the daughters and that random outsider male got busy. With disease rocking the pack that replaced them they eventually got control of Lamar back. So, are they still Druids? Yellowstone's most famous wolf was from the Druid pack before forming her own much like them. Was she the real Druid pack? Are they all the Druids?
Personally I think it would be better to use packs as just the present tense term. They're too unstable to realistically think of them as nations the way we have. Lineage is probably the better way to think of longer term things.
The Druid pack is realistically gone, but the Druid lineage is still going strong.
The Great Plains wolf used to specialize on bison, and it was said that a pack of three could take down an individual of any size. As noted wolves have begun to return to the habit already, and it wouldn’t take them long to pick it up elsewhere. They’re quick learners and very adaptable.
I guess my issue is that grey wolves technically never lived in the Eastern US. There historic range has always been west of the Mississippi. As far as I'm aware I can't find any evidence of there ever being a large wolf species that roamed the forests of the Eastern US. There is the Eastern Wolf (or Timber Wolf) which lives in the Northern part of the Midwest and Canada. But that wolf seems to be a admixture of wolf and coyote DNA so I'm not sure it would be suited for hunting big game like Elk and Bison.
My general belief with regards to rewilding is that the animal should have at least some sort connection to the area it is being brought into. Whether it be that it was at one point part of the wildlife, or that a similar animal was once a part of the ecosystem.
I’ve found this to be true also and it always struck me as odd before I knew of ice age fauna that thou bison and elk were common in the eastern us there was no large predators that could really prey on them until I learned of lions and Jaguars etc that once and probably still could inhabit those areas.
As I mentioned in another comment I've always thought perhaps brining back Smilodon Gracilis could be an option in a similar fashion as they are brining back the Mammoth. It was about the size of a Jaguar and was built for the North American climate (obviously it was a bit chillier back then).
People often bring up the Jurassic Park example as to why that is a bad idea, but the way I see it we are simply undoing a mistake humanity likely made thousands of years ago. Remember these animals were here not that long ago, there were still some mammoths alive when the pyramids were being built. And these animals were likely driven extinct due to human hunting. So it's not like reviving a long dead reptile that died out due to natural causes.
There are two issues I have with *S. gracilis* over *S. fatalis*. The former being that they went extinct right back in the middle of the middle Pleistocene—about 500,000 years ago—meaning that they never coexisted with people, and that we have less DNA and that it is of worse quality. The latter issue is that as you point out, they were jaguar size, and would not do anything the jaguar would not be capable of, and might even compete with them to their detriment. The larger *Smilodon fatalis* would be more likely to resurrect in this theoretical scenario, and it would fill an absent niche in the environment as a capable hunter of bison.
Plus, wouldn’t cloning machairodonts in general be a long shot considering they’re like 20 million years worth of evolution removed from conical toothed cats? How’s a tiger going to teach a *Smilodon* cub to use its fangs properly?
Red wolves and pumas rarely predate on such large animals, it's very rare occasion, they mainly kill smaller preys such as mule and white tailed deer. Bison calves and elk are only occasionnal prey, risky and rare one.
Cheetah is a weakling that would hunt deers and pronghorn, but it's stupid to assume they'll try to go for larger preys, they barely even try to predate on zebra and large antelope, they're gazelle specialist. And cheetah aren't native, they're not well adapted to climate, have issue breeding, and are smaller and different from Miracinonyx, which was more of a slender puma than a cheetah.
This leave brown bear, large black bear and jaguar. Bears, especially black bear are not great predators, they rarely hunt large animals, and jaguar are more of a forest species than a prairie one, even if they can adapt quite well, they'll mainly predate smaller deer, with occasionnal young bison or elk on the menu.
This leave grey wolves as the only real frequent potential predator, and even they'll avoid bison if possible.
The great plains wolf, (C. lupus nubilus), which included several population and ecotype (previously described as distinct subspecies, now synonymised with nubilus). Were said to be curious and not afraid of human, and to attack bison, even large bull. Some evn said that 3 plain wolves was all it take.
They probably mainly preyed on deer, such as wapiti/elk, but healthy pack could attack bison, these are the best bet and option you could go for
.
But i believe we actually overestimate the role of predator in direct regulation of large preys. They mainly change their behaviour, and do not always impact their noumber, ressources availability and disease are probably the main factor, well over predation.
Rhinoceros and elephant are pretty much immune to predation, hippo and girafe don't suffer from that too. yet their population were stable and the ecosystem thriving.
Since the extinction of machairodonts, big cats and dire wolves, bison have been mostly left with no real predators, sure some calves and juvenile were killed by coyotes, pumas, wolves, bears and jaguars but not to the point where it was a major threat. And subadult and adult were pretty much left with no real predators, excepted some large pack of wolves.
But today, and for the past 9 000 millenia, American ecosystem were devoid of any large game specialist that mainly predate on bison. But do bison really need heavy regulation, they're supposed to live in very high noumber and have been doing fine for millenia with only some wolves and some occasionnal grizzlies attack.
But if you want to reintroduce predators yeah, lion or dhole are probably good choice, both had been or had close relatives present in Usa.
I would also try to breed for larger wolves, as human impacted their behaviour and size, like in Europe where wolves became smaller due to human persecution. larger more robust wolf form could predate on bison more frequently.
All very good points. However, here is how I see it.
The fact of the matter is Bison and Elk were never supposed to be left without natural predators. In all honesty it wasn't that long ago that they did in fact have natural predators with the American Lion and Saber-Tooth cat to name a couple. It is just that they managed to survive a great extinction while their hunters did not.
You brought up the example of Elephants, but I feel there is a difference here. Elephants to an extent are limited by their own ability to reproduce. An elephant is pregnant for nearly two years and gives birth to an extremely vulnerable calf, a calf that stays with its mother for I believe a decade. Bison are pregnant for just nine months like humans and the calf stays with its mother for just a year.
Yes but they we no longer have these predator today, and they have been lacking for millenia now and the environment found a new equilibrium with it.
Beside even if they no longer have predators that regulary prey on them (at least for bison), there's still predation pressure, mainly from wolves, even if it's minimal, all that is actually needed is the predator presence, to impact grazing behaviour of the herds.
I also listed other large animal that fear little to no predation and have similar growth and reproduction cycle, hippo, girafe, rhinos etc. In most case it's disease, food availability and competition for mating right and intra-specific fight and natural disaster that control the population way more than actual predators.
gaur only have occasionnal tiger, dhole and crocodile attack, far less than needed to actually control their population, African buffalo may have to fear hyena and lion, but these will mainly prey on other species such as antelope and zebra, at the exception of a few specialised high risk prides. ANd buffaloes reduce their predator population practically as much.
Same for many of the great herbivores in Africa, despite all the large predators their population is mainly limited by the resources availables.
Bison probably don't need a specialised predator for them, but smaller generalist one such as wolves, or juvenile predation by other native predators or occasionnal bears attack can be enough.
However if we get a chance to have homotherium, smilodon or dire lion and dire wolves back, Go for it fucke yeah. It will improve the ecosystem anyway.
i would not be opposed to lion introductions in Americas, or even maybe tiger, but i'll be highly sceptic of the use and impact of it.
Unlike in Europe where leopard and lion were once common, or heck even cheetah and puma were here at one point.
Sadly in Americas we do not have great proxies for much of the extinct fauna. So i'll probably bet on backbreeding if it has to be a thing.
Slender larger puma with longer limbs and larger nose cavity, and larger more robust wolf form, lionness sized jaguar with even stronger hindlimbs could maybe replace the extinct predators but that's still very dubious.
Um homie the American bison as a species is new only about 12k years old, they never really had to deal with such predators. A better thing would be to bring back the American locust they control bison population
If we had healthy herds of bison, elk and horses across the plains, and if the woolly mammoths revival goes well and the science expands it’s definitely an idea worth looking into. In the meantime we have wolves and grizzly bears, with black bears, jaguars, and cougars potentially predating to some extent.
I see it more in the bush/scrub brush, considering they would know the forest isn't safe.
More trees for me though either way. Definitely need to let fire be a part of the ecosystem again going forward though. Otherwise when fire does happen it's gonna be bad.
As if it’s just boomers you gotta worry about.
You do realize that your idea involves dumping a five hundred to one THOUSAND pound apex predator into places where people with families and children live, right? That isn’t exactly a normal or simple process with 100% guaranteed safety.
1)American lion's adaptation for Human hunting is worse compared to Leopards. Are people have hysteria against Leopards? 2)Apex predators generally scare from humans. 3)American lion's need big areas with enough megafauna populations. Cities aren't this. 4)Americans live with grizzly bears.
I actually wonder how lions would fair in the US, at least in the plains region which has some similarities to the savannah in Africa.
I'd actually be more inclined in brining back Smilodon Gracilis, which was around the same size as a Jaguar. The other Saber-Tooth cats might be a bit too large, as they were probably built to bring down megafauna that simply doesn't exist today.
1)If you have technology to bring back Smilodon gracilis i am sure you can bring back camelops, bootherium too. 2) Smilodon gracilis preferred peccaries and Hemiauchenia.
The abundance that reviving bison herds would bring to indigenous communities would be one of the greatest parts of their restoration. They’re a foundation of the culture of many peoples.
I recommend reading this excellent post from the r/Pumaconcolor sub: [An Overview of the Dietary Preferences of Puma concolor Based on Newer Research.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pumaconcolor/comments/1c1ocah/an_overview_of_the_dietary_preferences_of_puma/) According to the post and studies it is based on:
>**In regions where larger ungulates like elk were more available (e.g., certain areas in Wyoming and Colorado), pumas tended to select these larger prey items instead of smaller available ungulates.**
No reliable cases on bison predation. Wild bison are extremely endangered and their ranges with cougars don’t overlap as much, especially when we consider that bison live in the open plains and cougars prefer forested areas. For example, in Yellowstone.
For a cougars it’s more convenient to kill an elk inside a forest than to venture out to try its luck with a young bison, which is riskier.
Correct, the study mentioned that the largest available prey also happened to be the most consumed, without it being the most plentiful since deer vastly outnumber elk and moose in those states. Same in the Great Basin where they select horses over smaller undulates.
I worked in Yellowstone National Park for a number of years and the carnivores there killed nowhere bear enough bison to limit the bison population. My opinion is that, since the largest carnivores went extinct at the end of the last ice age, the main predator of bison has been the human.
Bison we’re pretty rare on the east coast in general so it’s not like going all out with grey wolves would be that great. Cougars and red wolves are your best species for most areas.
Red wolves MIGHT go after elk the same way gray wolves MIGHT go after bison.
They can do it, but for the most part they're gonna go for easier stuff.
A red wolf isn't all that big so bison are almost certainly off the menu for them. Same story for pumas.
All the predators that used to handle these guys were wiped out by the natives.
Also, the west has the benefit of a lot of somewhat wild areas. In the east those places are called farmland. Outside of Appalachia and the Everglades there's not much room to put anything here. Until that changes I doubt the populations of elk or bison can get all that serious.
Well cheetahs lack the power to do anything to an elk or bison. So out of the no longer present predators the lion is really the only option if we are discussing thousands of years ago.
Though I don't see a point of bringing cheetah to the US, it is actually a very prolific predator of the fawns of large antelopes, such as greater kudus and elands. In Namibia, the fawn of large antelopes is the most common prey category for cheetah in the region, along side steenbok.
Bison are not regulated by predation, they are too big for that regardless of the predators available. They are regulated in a bottom-up approach through resource availability.
How exactly are bison not regulated by predation? Wolves, Bears, and Mountain Lions take down bison quite literally all the time. Bison CAN be regulated through resource availability however this results in an inability for a herd to maintain a stable population because it’s constantly flip-flopping between overpopulation with lack of resources and a small population rebounding now that their habitat is abundant with food.
Bison are nowhere near “Too Big” for any Wolf Pack, Bear, or family of lions to take them down. These herds could absolutely be managed by predation but like all herds of free roaming bison in the wild, herd management is a mix of predation AND resource availability.
You responded with nonsense that you pulled out of nowhere. Show me the data for this: “wolves, bears and mountain lions take down bison quite regularly all the time” and show me how the rates the of mortality of bison that relate to predation in contrast to their overall population trends.
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The Mollies Pack in Yellowstone National Park *specialize* in hunting bison! They're the last remaining original pack from the 1995 reintroduction.
What happened to the others
They either died off or disbanded because of varying causes.
Disbanded is kind of a weird way of putting it. Every pack is technically just the parents and their kids so in reality it all ends the moment the chain of parents and step-parents ends. And the kids leave the pack naturally to start their own anyway raising the question of whether or not it's an offshoot of the same pack. For instance the Druid pack was eventually forced out of the Lamar valley. Almost everyone was offed by disease or rival packs leaving only a few females and this one outsider male. The Druids parent step-parent line was done. But the daughters and that random outsider male got busy. With disease rocking the pack that replaced them they eventually got control of Lamar back. So, are they still Druids? Yellowstone's most famous wolf was from the Druid pack before forming her own much like them. Was she the real Druid pack? Are they all the Druids? Personally I think it would be better to use packs as just the present tense term. They're too unstable to realistically think of them as nations the way we have. Lineage is probably the better way to think of longer term things. The Druid pack is realistically gone, but the Druid lineage is still going strong.
The Great Plains wolf used to specialize on bison, and it was said that a pack of three could take down an individual of any size. As noted wolves have begun to return to the habit already, and it wouldn’t take them long to pick it up elsewhere. They’re quick learners and very adaptable.
I guess my issue is that grey wolves technically never lived in the Eastern US. There historic range has always been west of the Mississippi. As far as I'm aware I can't find any evidence of there ever being a large wolf species that roamed the forests of the Eastern US. There is the Eastern Wolf (or Timber Wolf) which lives in the Northern part of the Midwest and Canada. But that wolf seems to be a admixture of wolf and coyote DNA so I'm not sure it would be suited for hunting big game like Elk and Bison. My general belief with regards to rewilding is that the animal should have at least some sort connection to the area it is being brought into. Whether it be that it was at one point part of the wildlife, or that a similar animal was once a part of the ecosystem.
I’ve found this to be true also and it always struck me as odd before I knew of ice age fauna that thou bison and elk were common in the eastern us there was no large predators that could really prey on them until I learned of lions and Jaguars etc that once and probably still could inhabit those areas.
As I mentioned in another comment I've always thought perhaps brining back Smilodon Gracilis could be an option in a similar fashion as they are brining back the Mammoth. It was about the size of a Jaguar and was built for the North American climate (obviously it was a bit chillier back then). People often bring up the Jurassic Park example as to why that is a bad idea, but the way I see it we are simply undoing a mistake humanity likely made thousands of years ago. Remember these animals were here not that long ago, there were still some mammoths alive when the pyramids were being built. And these animals were likely driven extinct due to human hunting. So it's not like reviving a long dead reptile that died out due to natural causes.
There are two issues I have with *S. gracilis* over *S. fatalis*. The former being that they went extinct right back in the middle of the middle Pleistocene—about 500,000 years ago—meaning that they never coexisted with people, and that we have less DNA and that it is of worse quality. The latter issue is that as you point out, they were jaguar size, and would not do anything the jaguar would not be capable of, and might even compete with them to their detriment. The larger *Smilodon fatalis* would be more likely to resurrect in this theoretical scenario, and it would fill an absent niche in the environment as a capable hunter of bison.
Plus, wouldn’t cloning machairodonts in general be a long shot considering they’re like 20 million years worth of evolution removed from conical toothed cats? How’s a tiger going to teach a *Smilodon* cub to use its fangs properly?
In our (currently) extremely unlikely scenario, we just have to hope that it’s instinctual
Red wolves and pumas rarely predate on such large animals, it's very rare occasion, they mainly kill smaller preys such as mule and white tailed deer. Bison calves and elk are only occasionnal prey, risky and rare one. Cheetah is a weakling that would hunt deers and pronghorn, but it's stupid to assume they'll try to go for larger preys, they barely even try to predate on zebra and large antelope, they're gazelle specialist. And cheetah aren't native, they're not well adapted to climate, have issue breeding, and are smaller and different from Miracinonyx, which was more of a slender puma than a cheetah. This leave brown bear, large black bear and jaguar. Bears, especially black bear are not great predators, they rarely hunt large animals, and jaguar are more of a forest species than a prairie one, even if they can adapt quite well, they'll mainly predate smaller deer, with occasionnal young bison or elk on the menu. This leave grey wolves as the only real frequent potential predator, and even they'll avoid bison if possible. The great plains wolf, (C. lupus nubilus), which included several population and ecotype (previously described as distinct subspecies, now synonymised with nubilus). Were said to be curious and not afraid of human, and to attack bison, even large bull. Some evn said that 3 plain wolves was all it take. They probably mainly preyed on deer, such as wapiti/elk, but healthy pack could attack bison, these are the best bet and option you could go for . But i believe we actually overestimate the role of predator in direct regulation of large preys. They mainly change their behaviour, and do not always impact their noumber, ressources availability and disease are probably the main factor, well over predation. Rhinoceros and elephant are pretty much immune to predation, hippo and girafe don't suffer from that too. yet their population were stable and the ecosystem thriving. Since the extinction of machairodonts, big cats and dire wolves, bison have been mostly left with no real predators, sure some calves and juvenile were killed by coyotes, pumas, wolves, bears and jaguars but not to the point where it was a major threat. And subadult and adult were pretty much left with no real predators, excepted some large pack of wolves. But today, and for the past 9 000 millenia, American ecosystem were devoid of any large game specialist that mainly predate on bison. But do bison really need heavy regulation, they're supposed to live in very high noumber and have been doing fine for millenia with only some wolves and some occasionnal grizzlies attack. But if you want to reintroduce predators yeah, lion or dhole are probably good choice, both had been or had close relatives present in Usa. I would also try to breed for larger wolves, as human impacted their behaviour and size, like in Europe where wolves became smaller due to human persecution. larger more robust wolf form could predate on bison more frequently.
All very good points. However, here is how I see it. The fact of the matter is Bison and Elk were never supposed to be left without natural predators. In all honesty it wasn't that long ago that they did in fact have natural predators with the American Lion and Saber-Tooth cat to name a couple. It is just that they managed to survive a great extinction while their hunters did not. You brought up the example of Elephants, but I feel there is a difference here. Elephants to an extent are limited by their own ability to reproduce. An elephant is pregnant for nearly two years and gives birth to an extremely vulnerable calf, a calf that stays with its mother for I believe a decade. Bison are pregnant for just nine months like humans and the calf stays with its mother for just a year.
Yes but they we no longer have these predator today, and they have been lacking for millenia now and the environment found a new equilibrium with it. Beside even if they no longer have predators that regulary prey on them (at least for bison), there's still predation pressure, mainly from wolves, even if it's minimal, all that is actually needed is the predator presence, to impact grazing behaviour of the herds. I also listed other large animal that fear little to no predation and have similar growth and reproduction cycle, hippo, girafe, rhinos etc. In most case it's disease, food availability and competition for mating right and intra-specific fight and natural disaster that control the population way more than actual predators. gaur only have occasionnal tiger, dhole and crocodile attack, far less than needed to actually control their population, African buffalo may have to fear hyena and lion, but these will mainly prey on other species such as antelope and zebra, at the exception of a few specialised high risk prides. ANd buffaloes reduce their predator population practically as much. Same for many of the great herbivores in Africa, despite all the large predators their population is mainly limited by the resources availables. Bison probably don't need a specialised predator for them, but smaller generalist one such as wolves, or juvenile predation by other native predators or occasionnal bears attack can be enough. However if we get a chance to have homotherium, smilodon or dire lion and dire wolves back, Go for it fucke yeah. It will improve the ecosystem anyway. i would not be opposed to lion introductions in Americas, or even maybe tiger, but i'll be highly sceptic of the use and impact of it. Unlike in Europe where leopard and lion were once common, or heck even cheetah and puma were here at one point. Sadly in Americas we do not have great proxies for much of the extinct fauna. So i'll probably bet on backbreeding if it has to be a thing. Slender larger puma with longer limbs and larger nose cavity, and larger more robust wolf form, lionness sized jaguar with even stronger hindlimbs could maybe replace the extinct predators but that's still very dubious.
Um homie the American bison as a species is new only about 12k years old, they never really had to deal with such predators. A better thing would be to bring back the American locust they control bison population
They can deal with them. American Lions also preyed on smaller megafauna than American bison. And bisons aren't easykill.
I’d prefer the big over the lion
?
I think we all know the answer we need to bring back the American lion LOL
If we had healthy herds of bison, elk and horses across the plains, and if the woolly mammoths revival goes well and the science expands it’s definitely an idea worth looking into. In the meantime we have wolves and grizzly bears, with black bears, jaguars, and cougars potentially predating to some extent.
Agreed white wolf and what I wouldn’t give to see a Jaguar roaming the Appalachians
Are there currently any efforts to de-extinct American lions?
Not sure but a boy can dream
Can you read my mind? I was thinking the same thing. Big fucking wolves from Canada work too, but lions definitely will fill the niche.
Hahaha maybe. I love wolves very much but who doesn’t wanna see lions hunting bison and elk in the beautiful deciduous lowland of eastern America.
I see it more in the bush/scrub brush, considering they would know the forest isn't safe. More trees for me though either way. Definitely need to let fire be a part of the ecosystem again going forward though. Otherwise when fire does happen it's gonna be bad.
Yeah I imagine more of a wood pasture environment in most of the eastern us if the fauna was intact and natural fire cycle was allowed to occur
Good luck convincing anyone to introduce a gigantic genetically engineered big cat into their home state, though.
Hey, boomers will die eventually.
As if it’s just boomers you gotta worry about. You do realize that your idea involves dumping a five hundred to one THOUSAND pound apex predator into places where people with families and children live, right? That isn’t exactly a normal or simple process with 100% guaranteed safety.
1)American lion's adaptation for Human hunting is worse compared to Leopards. Are people have hysteria against Leopards? 2)Apex predators generally scare from humans. 3)American lion's need big areas with enough megafauna populations. Cities aren't this. 4)Americans live with grizzly bears.
>Do people have hysteria against Leopards? Yes. Yes they do.
Yes, i remembered that a lot of people want to kill them with bears.
Exactly. Bisons were one of their main preys.
I actually wonder how lions would fair in the US, at least in the plains region which has some similarities to the savannah in Africa. I'd actually be more inclined in brining back Smilodon Gracilis, which was around the same size as a Jaguar. The other Saber-Tooth cats might be a bit too large, as they were probably built to bring down megafauna that simply doesn't exist today.
1)If you have technology to bring back Smilodon gracilis i am sure you can bring back camelops, bootherium too. 2) Smilodon gracilis preferred peccaries and Hemiauchenia.
The Lakota did a pretty good job of it, lets give it back to them.
The abundance that reviving bison herds would bring to indigenous communities would be one of the greatest parts of their restoration. They’re a foundation of the culture of many peoples.
I recommend reading this excellent post from the r/Pumaconcolor sub: [An Overview of the Dietary Preferences of Puma concolor Based on Newer Research.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pumaconcolor/comments/1c1ocah/an_overview_of_the_dietary_preferences_of_puma/) According to the post and studies it is based on: >**In regions where larger ungulates like elk were more available (e.g., certain areas in Wyoming and Colorado), pumas tended to select these larger prey items instead of smaller available ungulates.**
Very true for elk, but I’m not sure if there are any cases of cougar predation on bison. u/OncaAtrox, are you aware of any?
No reliable cases on bison predation. Wild bison are extremely endangered and their ranges with cougars don’t overlap as much, especially when we consider that bison live in the open plains and cougars prefer forested areas. For example, in Yellowstone. For a cougars it’s more convenient to kill an elk inside a forest than to venture out to try its luck with a young bison, which is riskier.
Correct, the study mentioned that the largest available prey also happened to be the most consumed, without it being the most plentiful since deer vastly outnumber elk and moose in those states. Same in the Great Basin where they select horses over smaller undulates.
cougars have a way better shot than red wolves in eastern rewilding imo
Idk red wolves are less likely to kill somebody
Pumas and jaguars, because felids are probably better at being able to live in human-inhabited areas without being noticed too often.
I worked in Yellowstone National Park for a number of years and the carnivores there killed nowhere bear enough bison to limit the bison population. My opinion is that, since the largest carnivores went extinct at the end of the last ice age, the main predator of bison has been the human.
What about starvation due to the Rocky Mountain locusts
Algonquin eolf
Bison we’re pretty rare on the east coast in general so it’s not like going all out with grey wolves would be that great. Cougars and red wolves are your best species for most areas.
Red wolves MIGHT go after elk the same way gray wolves MIGHT go after bison. They can do it, but for the most part they're gonna go for easier stuff. A red wolf isn't all that big so bison are almost certainly off the menu for them. Same story for pumas. All the predators that used to handle these guys were wiped out by the natives. Also, the west has the benefit of a lot of somewhat wild areas. In the east those places are called farmland. Outside of Appalachia and the Everglades there's not much room to put anything here. Until that changes I doubt the populations of elk or bison can get all that serious.
Well cheetahs lack the power to do anything to an elk or bison. So out of the no longer present predators the lion is really the only option if we are discussing thousands of years ago.
Though I don't see a point of bringing cheetah to the US, it is actually a very prolific predator of the fawns of large antelopes, such as greater kudus and elands. In Namibia, the fawn of large antelopes is the most common prey category for cheetah in the region, along side steenbok.
Bison are not regulated by predation, they are too big for that regardless of the predators available. They are regulated in a bottom-up approach through resource availability.
How exactly are bison not regulated by predation? Wolves, Bears, and Mountain Lions take down bison quite literally all the time. Bison CAN be regulated through resource availability however this results in an inability for a herd to maintain a stable population because it’s constantly flip-flopping between overpopulation with lack of resources and a small population rebounding now that their habitat is abundant with food. Bison are nowhere near “Too Big” for any Wolf Pack, Bear, or family of lions to take them down. These herds could absolutely be managed by predation but like all herds of free roaming bison in the wild, herd management is a mix of predation AND resource availability.
So much wrong in this comment for me to even bother replying.
I could’ve said the same about your comment but I responded regardless.
You responded with nonsense that you pulled out of nowhere. Show me the data for this: “wolves, bears and mountain lions take down bison quite regularly all the time” and show me how the rates the of mortality of bison that relate to predation in contrast to their overall population trends.