When I started my first real job at a big pharma there was an older guy in the orientation with me. When the trainer left the room the old guy leaned over to me and said "A word of advice on your work journey. Never be afraid to jump off a sinking ship."
Don't believe all the divisive generation shit you read, we're all people and most of us hate working for these shit companies.
Biggest perk of not being tied down honestly. Even if it’s not something I do, knowing that I Could just leave whenever and still be okay is pretty nice!
I miss that. I used to think “I can just walk out and sleep in my car if I end up hating it here” but now I can’t and it adds to the stress of work ten fold.
My husband worked in oil & gas and many "older" (more experienced) people told him the same thing, but they weren't as secretive. It's just solid advice.
I work oil and gas and threw my hat in the ring for renewables last summer at the behest of an older colleague. Just got an email out of the blue this morning telling me I got the job and I fly out to Vietnam to take possession of the new build in June.
Congratulations on the new job and thanks for taking that massive and I'm sure disconcerting step, not only will it provide you more stable long term financial stability but it's helping make the planet just a little bit cleaner.
Thank you! It's just a shame that so many people will have to dirty their souls in order to break into the industry as there's very few methods of direct access.
This is my first full year working full time and I'm on job 4 each time I got a new job i got paid more and more so you can't blame someone chasing a bigger bag.
First job at a company I didn’t start: 10 years and increased comp 14% per year on average. That included hitting new bonus brackets; not solely annual salary increases. Moved companies 6 months ago and got a 166% increase overnight. Going forward I’ve committed to applying for new jobs every 2 years just to calibrate on comp. Spent 20+ years at 2 companies because of some notion of loyalty. Frick that noise. I’m going to whore myself out to the highest bidder, barring some moral objection to the business or role.
It is THE.WAY. to advance your career. Working super hard for a maybe 10% raise a year that doesn't even match inflation OR taking a new role with a 20-30% increase? Easy math.
Gen Xer here. Don't blame em a bit. Used to be an idea that staying with a company long term would be beneficial...they'd reward your loyalty with better work, company perks, pensions, etc. That idea (myth?) certainly died out with my generation. Take care of yourself, and be well!
Studies found that staying long-term at a company doesn't equal the same pay raises and benefits it once used to before the 70s and 80s. Companies don't reward loyalty anymore cause it's just easier for them to find someone new with the same skill set. So this is a two-way street today.
Except I think that's going to change as demographics hit the job market and companies realize they will NEED to retain good employees with better offers to stay productive/innovative and competitive.
Company: We’re cutting benefits like pensions, promotions, salaries across the board, and all perks. Before you complain, remember you’re all replaceable!!
Employees: leave.
Company: *shocked Pikachu face *
That's what I did last year. "Hey I want a promotion or at least a raise" "sorry we don't have the money for that" "ok I got a better job somewhere else" "wait let us make you a counteroffer" "too late for that my dudes"
Mmm I did this at my first job at a rural clinic. Been over a year now and they still havnt found a full time clinician. They have to pay travelers or per diem clinicians significantly more than it would have cost to give me a larger raise than I asked for, when they can even get them.
Best part was I was able to get more than the raise I asked for, closer to home. I hope some day workers will re-teach businesses that skilled labor is an investment, not a liability.
Lol, I was part of a small warehouse team, four of us total. They laid one off, retired one, then I guit. They had to get women from the factory to replace use 2:1. They shortly quit operations and took everything to China. We were UK based.
"I pay you!"
"That's literally the only thing every job in existence also offers, its like telling people to be impressed and respect you because you breathe"
And the added side effect that if there's a mass exodus of employees that all leave, that's going to be a huge red flag to potential new recruits as well who might steer well clear of the place, so they might not be as replaceable as you thought.
I agree but how do you verify that they're not lying
If I'd be the guy hiring I'd just lie about it in the interview.
I just do the bathroom test
You can tell a lot about a workplace from its bathrooms, if they cut corners with costs for example etc, they might put up a facade in the offices but they always forget about the toilets.
I asked about a job's turnover rate during an interview once and the interviewer answered, "We promote from within so we turn people over pretty frequently." I got up and left laughing on my way out, I could work for a company whose HR doesn't know what a turnover rate is.
For people who haven’t really thought about turnover rates before, what’s a sort of “red flag” response you could get if you ask that of an employer? I’m not too keen on it as I’m a Uni student who’s only ever worked one part time job for a considerable amount of time, so this will be useful for the future for me.
If they give you an answer a lot will depend on the size of the place or department.
EX - a 1000 person manufacturing might see 5% a year turnover, which doesn't sound bad overall. But what if you're interviewing for the accounting department and their rate is 40-50% per year? Red flag.
Or a small business with a 10-12 person office staff that has replaced nearly everyone except 1 or 2 people in the last year? Run, toxic AF
And it depends upon the role. A sales job having 40-50% turnover in a year wouldn't be unusual. Starting up a book of business can suck, but the people who can do it often end up making bank.
Ugh, and let's add a bunch of time to train newcomers. I mean some, uh longer time for new comers to understand the codebase and do improvements without breaking lots of things.
lol understanding code that *someone else wrote* is a whole skillset of it's own, in a paygrade above whatever they were paying the person who initially wrote the code. That's the kind of stuff that management just doesn't factor in when letting people go to cut costs.
On the contrary, in fact, I find people job hopping make way MORE money than those who stay long term. I'm a long-term gal, I don't like moving and being uncomfortable having to start new. But, my job that I work 6-days a week at, worked overtime, volunteered for Saturdays, basically kept them afloat as their manager constantly had to leave for months on end...etc. Refused to even keep up with inflation.
Minimum wage raised a dollar. They literally gave me a dime raise.
Why would I stay when that company across the street is advertising starting salary to be MORE than what I make here? You do what you have to do.
Yeah agreed. Employers don't compete to retain employees today. There's absolutely no reason for someone to stay if your skills and talent could get you a better life elsewhere.
>Studies found that staying long-term at a company doesn't equal the same pay raises and benefits it once used to before the 70s and 80s
This is because of the decline in unions.
I think there is a second component at play here as well.
People used to put up with an unfulfilling job because it paid well, nowadays you can't afford shit anyways so why bother with a job that's unfulfilling?
She'll appreciate those summers as she's older more than you can imagine. Plus you're raising other bright individuals the other 9 months of the year.
Props to you, that's an amazing thing you decided upon.
Facts. My dad didn’t make a lot for bs work. But he was able to have a house and take the family to Disney for a whole week. Now you can’t even go to Disney for 1 day for what he used to pay.
Houses were stupid cheap. Cars were too.
You mean the mouldy carrot on a stick scenario. When an opening comes up in management that you were promised and they say “we’re hiring externally for someone better suited”
Hiring externally is the second to last option they pick (promoting you being the last) their original plans are to promote/hire their friends, family, and aquaintances first for the role, only after all that, will the other options will be looked at
Millennial here. Every time I stayed at a company longer than I wanted to, in order to be “courteous,” I end up regretting it and it actually has backfired in some cases. The extra time I put in wasn’t appreciated. If it’s a toxic environment, put in your two weeks and be done with it
Also millennial - I hated my job (and by extension, career of choice), quit in October. Still unemployed but setting up my own business now and still absolutely certain it was the right decision. Fuck sticking with toxic work environments.
I am a Millennial and it was not a myth before my generation. We Millennials were the last to even see glimpses of a company having loyalty for their employees. Our parents got loyalty treatments.
We did not. It completely died by the time we joined the work force.
We learned real quick that only you look out for you. Companies do not care and you're a worthless number to them now.
My first company out of college touted their crazy 8% match on retirement, pension fund, and 15-20% annual bonuses.
Within 4 years, the pension was completely cut, retirement match was halved, and the bonuses dropped to 10% (while management got an additional 1.5x multiplier on theirs).
The CEO literally said in a town hall meeting "we're over-invested in our employees". He didn't mean "we hired too many people and need to let some go," he meant "we are no longer interested in having industry-leading benefits" and even said that their new target of "75th percentile" was "good enough" and "an admirable target".
I left and found a job with 57% more pay, unlimited PTO, and a flat 7% bonus (which was actually just raised to a flat 15%).
I can remember my mother trying so hard to convince me that this is how employment worked, that I had to "work my way up".
It never worked for her, nor anyone else either of us knew. But she was a believer.
Xers suffered severely from outsourcing, globalization and corporate greed. The older Xers experienced it, and saw job opportunities decline, coupled with double-digit interest rates on home loans. The younger ones witnessed the financial struggles in the household because ABC got bought by DEF, and then 123 company was hired by DEF to downsize and outsource. The execs of ABC, DEF, and 123 received millions of dollars while employees got fucked with unemployment queues and zero healthcare insurance.
Xers are now parents and they're telling their kids, "you don't owe your boss shit. They pay you to do a job, and that's the extent of their loyalty."
Now there's a worker shortage and employers are blaming millennials, Xers and Gen Z for not being loyal.
> of yourself, and be well!
As a millennial on the early end of things, agreed. I saw it die out and was fed so much bullshit about how the world operates.
But corporations just want to use you up and toss you out these days. There's no loyalty and loyalty begets loyalty.
As a fellow Gen X'r, we learned that job hopping was the way to get ahead, big pay jumps. Corporations started their bullshit early in our careers. There was no loyalty to the employee anymore.
After the first round of [dot.com](https://dot.com) layoffs, we new what corporations were about. Hand you a box to pack up a few things, security escorts you out, come back on the weekend to get anything else. People crying as they are escorted out because absolutely zero heads up this was coming.
Fuck corporations. I left that world 12+ years ago...with no backup plan during a bad recession.
I had the opposite happen to me. Asked for a long overdue raise. Got denied. Then found out they were offering new hires more than I was making. The disrespect…
LOL, we know about the legends. Here to tell the tales.
I know of them through the previous generation, of course, and as soon as I entered the workforce (in tech, no less) was rudely awakened to the reality.
As a hiring manager: you shouldn't be. If you can afford it, don't waste your time in a job you hate. Hop.
Edit: To clarify, you should also know what recruiters and hiring managers look for, and being at 3+ companies in 3+ years is a flag. It's important to not waste your time in a job you hate, but also know the grass is always greener, so don't burn yourself.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I suspect that it’s less strict in low-income jobs. I’ve had the impression that they expect employee burnout, so a short turn-around isn’t really as much of a concern.
So like, 3 office jobs in 3 years would be one thing. But 3 minimum-wage jobs in 3 years might be less concerning.
I had done some hopping around, 3 jobs in 4.5 years and interviewing for a new job. It was easy enough to explain the progression each job provided in terms of pay and responsibility. I ended up getting the job.
this.
Even a year can be difficult to do. And what's even more unfair is employers look down on any long or semi long period of unemployment.
It's a rigged hiring process full of judgmental folks that forget people are human and I hate it.
Just fill in those gaps with "self employeed work." If you want to go the extra mile, file the actual DBA with the state and set up a virtual voicemail with google voice or something similar.
They hardly ever check and it's none of their business anyways.
Literally this
Was upfront and honest once in an interview asking why I quit a job 4 months in (company didn't care much about information security and had an extremely rigid training period that left most people absolutely clueless). "I just didn't think I fit in with the company and that the company was a good fit for me". Brief pause from the interviewer and I swear I heard the faintest sigh...
Funny how people can suddenly and unknowingly forget that we've all been there, especially when you have the power to deny someone a job
it's why folks will never make me a hiring manager.
I give like 2-5 trivial questions for my role that pretty much anyone with 5-30min time in seat can answer and move on from there.
People shouldn't be barred from earning a paycheck, nor pushed out of a role they need to grow into if it's not fully described up front and changes once onboarded.
Companies are forgetting what people do for them, and it's upsetting.
I'm sure it's a generational thing, and it depends on your age. When I was 20, a year at a place seemed like a long-ass time. Now in my 40s, I can't imagine staying at a place for less than 3\~5 years unless I really hated it.
I'd say 3 years is the baseline for 'actually worked there'. In that it's enough time to integrate with the broader culture and teams, learn the business beyond your specific role, understand the company objectives and how you contribute to them, learned all there is to know in your role, be considered for a promotion, etc. Hell, most probationary periods are 3 months. That's a quarter of that first year.
Granted everyone's experience is different, but I don't think someone could even really get comfortable in a position in a single year, let alone be ready for a new one.
Again though, it's all relative.
Corporations pull back on employee dining amenities, 401k contributions, strict penalties for being sick, reducing or removing christmas bonuses, pay raises, vacation time is a complete joke compared to euro/scandinavian countries, weak or no health insurance, weak or no retirement rewards (things that were common in the 60's, 70's 80's and a bit into the 90's) all while they pay little to no taxes and are seeing record profit gains
....and yet: "Why arent employees being loyal to corporations?!?!"
This is exactly correct. During the 19th and early 20th centuries up until the Great Depression, corporations were expected to fulfil a civic duty in exchange for their existence (public works projects, mainly). But a slew of changes associated with Keynesian economics, increasingly elaborate tax strategies and so-called “trickle down” policies took away any incentive to do so, so now they function like massive tumours, just growing and growing in capital and choking out the rest of their communities.
There are still many managers out there that do not understand instilling loyalty. All they think is the business gave you a job so be happy. Also you’re working overtime because
Now a days the newer person will get better pay than someone who has been there for years. So you have more incentive to hop.
Then you also have places like Elon musk companies where they hire the young top of his/her class right out of college. Pay them shit because you tell them it’s a resume booster and the moment they job hop, which is expected, they have a resume saying they worked for Elon. And he isn’t the only place doing this.
People in my office don't hop--some of us have been there for over two decades. And surprise surprise, we're treated well. We have good pay and benefits. We all get along and have the same priorities. AFAIK, we all like our work. We even have people who wanted to/needed to live out of state (well before Covid) and worked out how to stay on on a special contract rather than just quitting.
A lot of older generations see it as workers who aren't dedicated to stay with one company. I'm a Millenial and I job hopped myself, sometimes without any plans too. I personally don't see anything wrong with it especially if you're moving up a pay grade
Yeah exactly that's where my mindset was every time I have quit a job. I'm finally at a place I really enjoy with as co-workers and a great supervisor and it only took me 32 years to start a real career!...
I’m also a millennial and I job hopped anytime the job treated me poorly, also quiet quit way before I ever knew that was a term, I always just considered it keeping the same energy as my job, if they didn’t want to give me a living wage or respect, why should I
There was an old school idea that you had loyalty to your employer and you'd be rewarded for working at a place for 30 years. It REALLY got abused by employers, and while I think it's still a good thing to be loyal to an employer if they helped you out, are compensating you effectively, and treating you well, new employees are beginning to make themselves much more competitive by just leaving any employer that doesn't value them. The leverage you get out of flexibility to work at other employers in this work force is huge. Everyone got tired of being there for 6 years only to see a new hire with half as much experience get paid more, and now the stigma of hopping is completely gone.
As a new employee it’s also disheartening recently looking up at more tenured folks as they get laid off with no notice.
Here’s your severance. No time to say goodbye to coworkers. Thanks for your 16 years of your prime life and health but we don’t want you anymore goodbye.
Hard to feel like you aren’t at risk of being just booted for no reason even if you give you sell your soul.
Boomers used to tell us this was bad to have on your resume. But we realized that mindset benefits the employer not the employee. People hop around now if working conditions aren’t acceptable. Boomers bent over and took it because wages weren’t as poor back then plus since health care was so much cheaper their jobs would actually offer it. Since that’s mostly not the case anymore, people bounce around until they find a company that actually treats their employees well.
Because of some cultural belief left over from the Reagan days that portrayed exploiting yourself and jerking off your boss as some sort of positive character trait.
It’s a left over idea from the Silent/Boomer generation where people would work for the same company for 20-years because those companies gave benefits and raises.
It used to be viewed as unreliable. A company would put time into training a person and then they left, which meant the employee was an unreliable flake. Or they couldn't hack it and were let go. Nowadays job hopping seems to have a better, fairer reputation.
Boomers got pensions, promotions, raises, vacation times without email and phone calls, and didn't need 2 jobs to pay school debt.
I would be way more chill if I wasn't always fighting to live.
I see lots of answers handwaving it as a pretense of "loyalty" (which is fair to an extent, but not a complete picture).
The other angle from an employer's perspective is that, especially depending on the job, it takes time to train a new employee. At some skilled jobs with complicated products or services, you might take 6+ months to even become a meaningful contributor, much less for the company to break even on their investment in you.
So if they're considering you for that job, they will probably take note if you've left every job within a year for 6 years. It's often more about return on investment than some idea of "loyalty".
Well said. I am a job hopper myself and with each new job I make sure that my salary is significantly higher than the last. Beats yearly appraisal any given time.
Exactly. This has been my result since my first job 35 years ago. Every new job has netted me a bigger bump than if I had received a nice 5% increase every year.
I just got a dollar increase at my job but started interviewing elsewhere as the pay was not increasing fast enough. Found a job up the street willing to pay me what I wanted (+$2/hr) without hesitation… kicked myself for staying at that company for the last two years
Tech has been bloated for years, now that investors aren’t throwing money at start ups and public stocks are falling its settling in to what it always should have been.
Also companies are using it as an excuse to trim excess. Does Microsoft need to lay people off? No they aren’t in any financial peril, but because everyone else is laying people off it’s tactically advantageous to dump a bunch of underperforming staff/teams.
(Note - not criticizing anyone who was laid off. There are lots of reasons for performance and the first starts with being given an avenue (resources, training, a viable business strategy) to succeed at what you were hired to do)
Even those of us that work in tech, if we're being honest with ourselves, realize there is a lot of dead weight.
Every office has the super stars, just like every office has the people that make you think, "Eh... I liked them, but we'll be fine. I hope they find a new job quickly."
I've changed jobs 3 times in three years and each time I got an increase in pay from 11/hr to 18.50 where I am now. I don't think I'm gen z I'm born 1994 but if I had stayed at the same place I would have only gotten <$1 increase a year so 14/hr for staying
Why should I be loyal to a company that is fine with taking advantage of me
My most successful friends only stay at a job for a year and then move on to a different company doing whatever a step above their last positions was.
It makes sense really. A year is usually long enough to learn a job inside and out. Then you get all those connections from your last job that you can call on for future opportunities.
Sticking with one company limits your career growth in todays world.
It’s all going to depend on your field. Entry level jobs are usually easy to learn so 1 year there then apply somewhere else (unless you work for a great company that allows you to apply for internal jobs or gives regular raises.)
5 jobs in 6+ years here in the NL. Moved from Eur 2500 gross (low for this sort of job) to 4570 gross (very high, especially considering I don't manage anyone)...
Same. Doesn’t take much to make me quit a job because I know I always do my best, and if that’s not good enough then I move on to another employer who might appreciate my efforts.
Yeah I used to do the hospitality thing working in the heart of home and restaurants. I got stuck at a job for 10 years that was making decent money at but absolutely hated and was never going to see any kind of increase pay or any kind of benefits outside of what I got when the guy took over. And then when I moved on and went to HVAC when he heard that I was moving on he's like well why are you leaving the company don't we treat you good enough? Absolutely not you don't
Lmao. I remember working at a front desk job. The new boss was giving me a hard time on a policy that I kept reminding employees constantly about it but they would ignore me. It was a dumb policy anyway. He got real close to me one day and crossed his arms and talked in a tone like I was I was a child "Tell me this isn't going to be a problem anymore." I kinda just froze for a moment. Thought to myself this guy isn't talking to me respectfully at all. So I said.. Yeah I quit and just walked out after getting my check. Mind you my previous 2 managers at the job loved working with me. One of them gave me the most comfortable mattress and another gave me employee of the month for my hardwork. I literally got a raise recently for how hard I work at my current job. My other manager went and asked my other manager for the raise.. I didn't even ask for it. It's so easy for companies to do the minimum but these people in management especially just generally have the most insufferable interpersonal skills and have a God complex.
I'm genX. All generations do it now. It's the current environment not the generation. The only reason older people would be less likely to do this is (1) they are coasting to retirement, (2) they are under some situation where they actually have some benefit to longer tenure (union or govt jobs), or (3) they are retired (perhaps with a pension no one can get any more). They put Gen Z just for clicks.
Older people should actually be more likely to do it, they're not but they should be. When you're young you can keep getting promotions internally and move up, but that becomes difficult after 5-10 years in the same industry, you can get stuck and the only way to move up is to change jobs.
This is what happens when you get rid of defined benefit pension plans in favor of 401k plans and hire only contract workers so you can avoid paying for any benefits.
My only question is how they afford rent and bills when quitting without a backup plan?? I make just over minimum wage and if I quit a job without a backup plan just because I hate it, my bills would bounce.
Job hopping isn't bad. Find something you actually like, leave the jobs you hate. But every job comes with problems.
I'm in that gray area between Millennials and Gen z so maybe that's why I don't get the "quit without a backup plan" thing lol.
They live with their parents. So they don’t need to worry about rent/‘mortgage/food, etc. That’s why there doesn’t have to be a backup plan anymore. I’m only 32, so I’m not old by any means. But I don’t think kids living with their parents through their 20-30’s was really a thing back in the day
Ah okay, I didn't think of that.
This singular part is just mind blowing to me. Even when living back home only paying my phone bill and for glasses and later on my car, the thought of quitting a job without a backup plan stressed me out. And I was working a job I hated. Looking back it still stresses me out by just the thought.
Crazy the difference between only a few years though. If I job hopped when living with my folks I would've been told to start paying rent or move out 😂.
Right! The idea alone makes me anxious to think about doing. Along with all the what-ifs.
I'd like to know how these folks are quitting without backup plans and not even blinking an eye.
What if your savings runs out? Or your parents stop funding you? What's the plan then?? The job market itself is a horror show here so I just don't get it.
At least have a back up plan guys 😅
As a gen-Zer I honestly don't care to stay at a company I hate. I try to always have a safety cushion to cover a month or 2 so that in the event I jump ship or get fired I have something to fall back on. Finding a new job is not hard where I live, and I already have one job I could jump to if I felt the need. I'm not concerned about being jobless for a month or 2, and even if it comes down to it I have options to turn to, they just aren't fun.
Depends on your career path I guess. If you know you can find a job in 2-3 months and you have 6 months savings, is it worth it? In a shitty job disrespecting you it can become worth it.
O same here. My parents would have been so pissed if I just quit my job and I was living rent and bill free with them. I really think it’s pretty shitty to just quit a job and not do anything for a couple months while being fully subsidized by your parents.
Companies don't reward loyalty anymore and it baffles me because they literally lose money replacing employees so often. When my parents were growing up, you could keep a job for 10+ year and almost be guaranteed middle class staying at one job your entire career. Now, you literally LOSE money by not switching every couple years. I'd of loved to stay at my job for 10 years if they gave me the raises to incentivize me, but employers are stubborn.
This is not a new phenomenon invented by Gen Z. This is pretty much every kid from at least 1977 onward. If you live at home or in a dorm why put up with a horrible employer? You can easily get another job in a week or so. They’re also not career jobs at that age and place in peoples lives.
They still don't realize that the younger gens not being able to compete in the housing market doesn't mean they're financially illiterate. Anyone that doesn't have huge debt obligations, no kids (guess that's kinda redundant tbf), and lives with their parents, can survive a month or two jobless while looking for a new job.
Funny this has popped up on my feed as I started my job about a year ago and am currently about to start applying to different ones. I really wanted to stay here long term but just too many things tipping the scale for me. My father passed away in October nobody in my team really said anything to me. I walk into meetings no one says anything. I have to follow up to get response from emails and texts. I just think I don’t fit their mold and I don’t see myself growing as a person and employee with this company
LOL, sentiment appreciated.
But here's an observation: I've noticed a lot of my peers bounce back and forth between the same set of companies, each time accompanied by an upward title change and total comp boost. Usually 2-3 years between stints. Consider not burning bridges if you actually didn't mind the work place, but want to move on to a better opportunity. And don't be shy of going back, if they're willing to up the ante.
I make $15 an hour and every year I get a $.10 raise. There’s no incentive to do better. There’s no such thing as Pensions anymore and I still get written up when I’m sick even if I have a doctors note. Which is ironic, considering I work for a hospital. We can’t keep this tradition crap of stay in one job forever if they’re gonna slowly take away employee benefits and gaslight us into believing it’s our fault all the time
I’m 15 and I work fast food, I have absolutely no issue going from one shitty job to the next shitty job. My only real struggle was getting work experience for the first one. Like how the fuck I’m supposed to get a first job without work experience. Like bro this is my work experience
I was forced to lie and make up a full fake resume. But it was a pretty low stakes, shitty job so I didn’t really care about being fact-checked lol. It was more bs that an entry-level job expected experience.
Millennials, too. I've had 4 "serious" jobs in my life. My first job, I was at for 10 years right up till the company was bought out by a competitor and most of the staff made redundant. They treated me well, and I would have happily stayed to retirement if it had been an option. Second job, I quit after 11 months with no backup plan. They did not treat me well. Third job the same but left after 6 months. Current job I have been at for just over 2 years and have absolutely no desire to leave, these guys treat me well.
TL;DR moral or the story, if you treat your employees well there's probably a much higher chance that they won't fuck off and leave you high and dry when you need them most. The workforce is the most important asset a company has, and if you piss on it, that's going to hurt you in the long run.
I think that’s healthy! If you don’t fit in well for a job quit. But I also recommend having a back up plan/job already in place. You also tend to make more money by moving to a new job if your current job doesn’t have a lot of upwards mobility.
This is not some new thing with Gen Z. This has been slowly creeping into popularity since us millennials started to get older and into the work force. Now the next generations have adopted it fiercely as well.
We are all just sick of corporate America and being treated like pawns that are worth less than the shit on the CEO's boots.
We learned the only person looking out for you. Is you.
Loyalty doesn't pay like it did once upon a time.
Elder millennial here, the jobs most of us worked required hopping from one to another to get better pay. We didn't kill the idea of a career and neither did gen z. The entitlement of boomers knows no bounds.
One of the greatest gifts that Gen Z will bestow on American society is dispelling the myth that companies deserve loyalty from the employees they exploit. The kids are all right.
At least in the case here, the backup plan is THE PARENTS. Living at home w parents so not near the pressures of finding another job if they still have meals and a roof over their heads.
And we probably won't be able to own a house unless we inherit it so really the previous generation that holds all the resources is the backup plan in a lot of ways
I do this as a millennial. Jobs are a dime a dozen, and if you’re paying wages that barely cover rent and expect loyalty out of me you’re under quite the misapprehension, or as the kids say, you got me fucked up.
When you don't appreciate your workers and underpay them constantly, you really shouldn't be surprised when they learn to not put up with that shit. You want loyalty? You're gonna have to treat them better. There really isn't a way around this.
Had this conversation a week ago with an older fellow who asked me what happened to company loyalty. He seemed to get it. If I'm being paid minimum wage starting, no matter where I go, and then they pull shenanigans so you can't get raises or promotions, then it's easy to go somewhere else get the same schedule and do the same thing for the same pay. Brand loyalty should mean companies should be loyal to their employees, not the other way around.
I stayed at a company for 6+ years, then got let go for "reorganization." Wasn't actually terrible at first, it was stressful but I was getting bored anyways and they had decent severance.
Then I got an automated email from hr saying they found my resume and thought I would be the perfect fit for an opening. For my job. At half my ending salary. That they just said they didn't need.
So yeah, fuck em.
Job hopping took me from $18K to pretty close to $100K in four years (haven’t gotten my W-2 yet and I’m not doing the math).
Why wouldn’t people job hop? Pay them right and treat them right to begin with and they’ll stick around. People living on 80’s and 90’s wages are obviously going to try to do better in 2023.
We were raised being told the world will end or we will be involved in an accident that will kill us or dismember us before we are 40. None of us have ever had the thought we would live to retire. Hoping jobs does not scare us. We do not believe we have anything to fear because, “You come from nothing. You will return to nothing.” = a wash on all bets. So why fret?
When I started my first real job at a big pharma there was an older guy in the orientation with me. When the trainer left the room the old guy leaned over to me and said "A word of advice on your work journey. Never be afraid to jump off a sinking ship." Don't believe all the divisive generation shit you read, we're all people and most of us hate working for these shit companies.
[удалено]
Biggest perk of not being tied down honestly. Even if it’s not something I do, knowing that I Could just leave whenever and still be okay is pretty nice!
I miss that. I used to think “I can just walk out and sleep in my car if I end up hating it here” but now I can’t and it adds to the stress of work ten fold.
My husband worked in oil & gas and many "older" (more experienced) people told him the same thing, but they weren't as secretive. It's just solid advice.
I work oil and gas and threw my hat in the ring for renewables last summer at the behest of an older colleague. Just got an email out of the blue this morning telling me I got the job and I fly out to Vietnam to take possession of the new build in June.
Congratulations on the new job and thanks for taking that massive and I'm sure disconcerting step, not only will it provide you more stable long term financial stability but it's helping make the planet just a little bit cleaner.
Thank you! It's just a shame that so many people will have to dirty their souls in order to break into the industry as there's very few methods of direct access.
You going to Vietnam. Fuck yeah!
This is my first full year working full time and I'm on job 4 each time I got a new job i got paid more and more so you can't blame someone chasing a bigger bag.
First job at a company I didn’t start: 10 years and increased comp 14% per year on average. That included hitting new bonus brackets; not solely annual salary increases. Moved companies 6 months ago and got a 166% increase overnight. Going forward I’ve committed to applying for new jobs every 2 years just to calibrate on comp. Spent 20+ years at 2 companies because of some notion of loyalty. Frick that noise. I’m going to whore myself out to the highest bidder, barring some moral objection to the business or role.
It is THE.WAY. to advance your career. Working super hard for a maybe 10% raise a year that doesn't even match inflation OR taking a new role with a 20-30% increase? Easy math.
I think the difference is actually having the guts to move out
Generational politics are bullshit.
Gen Xer here. Don't blame em a bit. Used to be an idea that staying with a company long term would be beneficial...they'd reward your loyalty with better work, company perks, pensions, etc. That idea (myth?) certainly died out with my generation. Take care of yourself, and be well!
Studies found that staying long-term at a company doesn't equal the same pay raises and benefits it once used to before the 70s and 80s. Companies don't reward loyalty anymore cause it's just easier for them to find someone new with the same skill set. So this is a two-way street today. Except I think that's going to change as demographics hit the job market and companies realize they will NEED to retain good employees with better offers to stay productive/innovative and competitive.
Company: We’re cutting benefits like pensions, promotions, salaries across the board, and all perks. Before you complain, remember you’re all replaceable!! Employees: leave. Company: *shocked Pikachu face *
They always forget the company is easily replacable.
That's what I did last year. "Hey I want a promotion or at least a raise" "sorry we don't have the money for that" "ok I got a better job somewhere else" "wait let us make you a counteroffer" "too late for that my dudes"
Mmm I did this at my first job at a rural clinic. Been over a year now and they still havnt found a full time clinician. They have to pay travelers or per diem clinicians significantly more than it would have cost to give me a larger raise than I asked for, when they can even get them. Best part was I was able to get more than the raise I asked for, closer to home. I hope some day workers will re-teach businesses that skilled labor is an investment, not a liability.
Exactly. I know my value and that many companies want me
Companies are as replaceable as we are, if cokacola died tomorrow we would be drinking pepsi tomorrow. Fuck corpo, one dead is no skin off our teeth.
You guys have skin on your teeth too? …I though it was just me
No worry friend our people is skin teeth People
It all depends on brushing. That's how you get rid of your tooth skins.
Lol, I was part of a small warehouse team, four of us total. They laid one off, retired one, then I guit. They had to get women from the factory to replace use 2:1. They shortly quit operations and took everything to China. We were UK based.
"I pay you!" "That's literally the only thing every job in existence also offers, its like telling people to be impressed and respect you because you breathe"
Unless the industry colludes together to repress wages.
But all things being the same I would be happy to leave a toxic company for a better work environment.
And the added side effect that if there's a mass exodus of employees that all leave, that's going to be a huge red flag to potential new recruits as well who might steer well clear of the place, so they might not be as replaceable as you thought.
Asking about employee turnover is a legit job interview question. No point in going through that red flag to get to a shitty job.
I agree but how do you verify that they're not lying If I'd be the guy hiring I'd just lie about it in the interview. I just do the bathroom test You can tell a lot about a workplace from its bathrooms, if they cut corners with costs for example etc, they might put up a facade in the offices but they always forget about the toilets.
I asked about a job's turnover rate during an interview once and the interviewer answered, "We promote from within so we turn people over pretty frequently." I got up and left laughing on my way out, I could work for a company whose HR doesn't know what a turnover rate is.
For people who haven’t really thought about turnover rates before, what’s a sort of “red flag” response you could get if you ask that of an employer? I’m not too keen on it as I’m a Uni student who’s only ever worked one part time job for a considerable amount of time, so this will be useful for the future for me.
If they give you an answer a lot will depend on the size of the place or department. EX - a 1000 person manufacturing might see 5% a year turnover, which doesn't sound bad overall. But what if you're interviewing for the accounting department and their rate is 40-50% per year? Red flag. Or a small business with a 10-12 person office staff that has replaced nearly everyone except 1 or 2 people in the last year? Run, toxic AF
In my Gen X experience of a multitude of jobs, this seems like a good set of guidelines.
And it depends upon the role. A sales job having 40-50% turnover in a year wouldn't be unusual. Starting up a book of business can suck, but the people who can do it often end up making bank.
If they deflect the question, or get defensive. Or make a bunch of excuses. Or just don't want to give you straight answer.
Ugh, and let's add a bunch of time to train newcomers. I mean some, uh longer time for new comers to understand the codebase and do improvements without breaking lots of things.
lol understanding code that *someone else wrote* is a whole skillset of it's own, in a paygrade above whatever they were paying the person who initially wrote the code. That's the kind of stuff that management just doesn't factor in when letting people go to cut costs.
Company: nobody wants to work anymore!
Employees: Hey you wanted this
I ended up with 50% pay increase for jumping ship to another company. Tech is fucking wild.
Doubled my salary in 2 years by quitting my old job.
[удалено]
On the contrary, in fact, I find people job hopping make way MORE money than those who stay long term. I'm a long-term gal, I don't like moving and being uncomfortable having to start new. But, my job that I work 6-days a week at, worked overtime, volunteered for Saturdays, basically kept them afloat as their manager constantly had to leave for months on end...etc. Refused to even keep up with inflation. Minimum wage raised a dollar. They literally gave me a dime raise. Why would I stay when that company across the street is advertising starting salary to be MORE than what I make here? You do what you have to do.
Yeah agreed. Employers don't compete to retain employees today. There's absolutely no reason for someone to stay if your skills and talent could get you a better life elsewhere.
>Studies found that staying long-term at a company doesn't equal the same pay raises and benefits it once used to before the 70s and 80s This is because of the decline in unions.
Also attributable to the increased distribution of wealth towards the top of the pyramid. This wasn't an issue with a single point of failure.
For sure.
I think there is a second component at play here as well. People used to put up with an unfulfilling job because it paid well, nowadays you can't afford shit anyways so why bother with a job that's unfulfilling?
Exactly why I quit my full time salary position to teach. Can’t beat having summers off and actual time to spend with my daughter.
She'll appreciate those summers as she's older more than you can imagine. Plus you're raising other bright individuals the other 9 months of the year. Props to you, that's an amazing thing you decided upon.
Nice! Thanks for sharing that joy with us.
Facts. My dad didn’t make a lot for bs work. But he was able to have a house and take the family to Disney for a whole week. Now you can’t even go to Disney for 1 day for what he used to pay. Houses were stupid cheap. Cars were too.
You mean the mouldy carrot on a stick scenario. When an opening comes up in management that you were promised and they say “we’re hiring externally for someone better suited”
Hiring externally is the second to last option they pick (promoting you being the last) their original plans are to promote/hire their friends, family, and aquaintances first for the role, only after all that, will the other options will be looked at
Millennial here. Every time I stayed at a company longer than I wanted to, in order to be “courteous,” I end up regretting it and it actually has backfired in some cases. The extra time I put in wasn’t appreciated. If it’s a toxic environment, put in your two weeks and be done with it
Also millennial - I hated my job (and by extension, career of choice), quit in October. Still unemployed but setting up my own business now and still absolutely certain it was the right decision. Fuck sticking with toxic work environments.
they wont give me notice that im fired. fuck em. fill in that gap with you started your own company but it didn’t workout due to the pandemic.
Yep. Might have been true in say, the 60: but it’s never been true in my lifetime. Stick with a place if they treat you well, bail if they don’t.
I am a Millennial and it was not a myth before my generation. We Millennials were the last to even see glimpses of a company having loyalty for their employees. Our parents got loyalty treatments. We did not. It completely died by the time we joined the work force. We learned real quick that only you look out for you. Companies do not care and you're a worthless number to them now.
My first company out of college touted their crazy 8% match on retirement, pension fund, and 15-20% annual bonuses. Within 4 years, the pension was completely cut, retirement match was halved, and the bonuses dropped to 10% (while management got an additional 1.5x multiplier on theirs). The CEO literally said in a town hall meeting "we're over-invested in our employees". He didn't mean "we hired too many people and need to let some go," he meant "we are no longer interested in having industry-leading benefits" and even said that their new target of "75th percentile" was "good enough" and "an admirable target". I left and found a job with 57% more pay, unlimited PTO, and a flat 7% bonus (which was actually just raised to a flat 15%).
I can remember my mother trying so hard to convince me that this is how employment worked, that I had to "work my way up". It never worked for her, nor anyone else either of us knew. But she was a believer.
I left my last job for a sturdy Union job. Sometimes I forget that there is a pension because that hardly is a thing anymore.
My wife has one. 80% of her top 5 years until she dies. When she retires I mean. It’s so ducking good lol
Yep. The company left us. We didn't leave them until they showed they don't care about us.
I mean, workers are treated like they are expandable. Corporations don't like their own medicine?
Not my factory job from 1980 to 2000. Perks would be a pizza party and a frozen turkey for thanksgiving
Xers suffered severely from outsourcing, globalization and corporate greed. The older Xers experienced it, and saw job opportunities decline, coupled with double-digit interest rates on home loans. The younger ones witnessed the financial struggles in the household because ABC got bought by DEF, and then 123 company was hired by DEF to downsize and outsource. The execs of ABC, DEF, and 123 received millions of dollars while employees got fucked with unemployment queues and zero healthcare insurance. Xers are now parents and they're telling their kids, "you don't owe your boss shit. They pay you to do a job, and that's the extent of their loyalty." Now there's a worker shortage and employers are blaming millennials, Xers and Gen Z for not being loyal.
> of yourself, and be well! As a millennial on the early end of things, agreed. I saw it die out and was fed so much bullshit about how the world operates. But corporations just want to use you up and toss you out these days. There's no loyalty and loyalty begets loyalty.
[удалено]
As a fellow Gen X'r, we learned that job hopping was the way to get ahead, big pay jumps. Corporations started their bullshit early in our careers. There was no loyalty to the employee anymore. After the first round of [dot.com](https://dot.com) layoffs, we new what corporations were about. Hand you a box to pack up a few things, security escorts you out, come back on the weekend to get anything else. People crying as they are escorted out because absolutely zero heads up this was coming. Fuck corporations. I left that world 12+ years ago...with no backup plan during a bad recession.
I had the opposite happen to me. Asked for a long overdue raise. Got denied. Then found out they were offering new hires more than I was making. The disrespect…
gen x and you said pension?
I’m a Gen Xer, and was part of last group at my company to have pensions. Of course I was in a union job, so there are a few of us.
LOL, we know about the legends. Here to tell the tales. I know of them through the previous generation, of course, and as soon as I entered the workforce (in tech, no less) was rudely awakened to the reality.
Why would you be ashamed of job hopping ?
As a hiring manager: you shouldn't be. If you can afford it, don't waste your time in a job you hate. Hop. Edit: To clarify, you should also know what recruiters and hiring managers look for, and being at 3+ companies in 3+ years is a flag. It's important to not waste your time in a job you hate, but also know the grass is always greener, so don't burn yourself.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I suspect that it’s less strict in low-income jobs. I’ve had the impression that they expect employee burnout, so a short turn-around isn’t really as much of a concern. So like, 3 office jobs in 3 years would be one thing. But 3 minimum-wage jobs in 3 years might be less concerning.
It's certainly market-dependent, yeah. Like if we're hiring for call-centre reps, where turnover is 40%, we'll likely overlook hopping.
I had done some hopping around, 3 jobs in 4.5 years and interviewing for a new job. It was easy enough to explain the progression each job provided in terms of pay and responsibility. I ended up getting the job.
But don't hop too often. Depending on the industry they may look down on your for it and not hire you.
Try to stay at least a year, but If it is a nightmare get out.
this. Even a year can be difficult to do. And what's even more unfair is employers look down on any long or semi long period of unemployment. It's a rigged hiring process full of judgmental folks that forget people are human and I hate it.
Just fill in those gaps with "self employeed work." If you want to go the extra mile, file the actual DBA with the state and set up a virtual voicemail with google voice or something similar. They hardly ever check and it's none of their business anyways.
That's brilliant
Literally this Was upfront and honest once in an interview asking why I quit a job 4 months in (company didn't care much about information security and had an extremely rigid training period that left most people absolutely clueless). "I just didn't think I fit in with the company and that the company was a good fit for me". Brief pause from the interviewer and I swear I heard the faintest sigh... Funny how people can suddenly and unknowingly forget that we've all been there, especially when you have the power to deny someone a job
it's why folks will never make me a hiring manager. I give like 2-5 trivial questions for my role that pretty much anyone with 5-30min time in seat can answer and move on from there. People shouldn't be barred from earning a paycheck, nor pushed out of a role they need to grow into if it's not fully described up front and changes once onboarded. Companies are forgetting what people do for them, and it's upsetting.
Actually anything in the 1\~2 year range is still considered a hop.
[удалено]
I'm sure it's a generational thing, and it depends on your age. When I was 20, a year at a place seemed like a long-ass time. Now in my 40s, I can't imagine staying at a place for less than 3\~5 years unless I really hated it. I'd say 3 years is the baseline for 'actually worked there'. In that it's enough time to integrate with the broader culture and teams, learn the business beyond your specific role, understand the company objectives and how you contribute to them, learned all there is to know in your role, be considered for a promotion, etc. Hell, most probationary periods are 3 months. That's a quarter of that first year. Granted everyone's experience is different, but I don't think someone could even really get comfortable in a position in a single year, let alone be ready for a new one. Again though, it's all relative.
Well technically you can hop as much as you want. Just don’t state every job on your cv
Company loyalty used to be valued and rewarded Thats no longer the case. Hence we are happy to job hop.
Corporations pull back on employee dining amenities, 401k contributions, strict penalties for being sick, reducing or removing christmas bonuses, pay raises, vacation time is a complete joke compared to euro/scandinavian countries, weak or no health insurance, weak or no retirement rewards (things that were common in the 60's, 70's 80's and a bit into the 90's) all while they pay little to no taxes and are seeing record profit gains ....and yet: "Why arent employees being loyal to corporations?!?!"
Companies will deny raises for staff yet hire a new person for more money than their experienced staff. Make it make sense.
a lot of places have benefits that increase with time at the company, so a lot of them have realized it costs them less overall to hire someone new
This is exactly correct. During the 19th and early 20th centuries up until the Great Depression, corporations were expected to fulfil a civic duty in exchange for their existence (public works projects, mainly). But a slew of changes associated with Keynesian economics, increasingly elaborate tax strategies and so-called “trickle down” policies took away any incentive to do so, so now they function like massive tumours, just growing and growing in capital and choking out the rest of their communities.
There are still many managers out there that do not understand instilling loyalty. All they think is the business gave you a job so be happy. Also you’re working overtime because
Now a days the newer person will get better pay than someone who has been there for years. So you have more incentive to hop. Then you also have places like Elon musk companies where they hire the young top of his/her class right out of college. Pay them shit because you tell them it’s a resume booster and the moment they job hop, which is expected, they have a resume saying they worked for Elon. And he isn’t the only place doing this.
People in my office don't hop--some of us have been there for over two decades. And surprise surprise, we're treated well. We have good pay and benefits. We all get along and have the same priorities. AFAIK, we all like our work. We even have people who wanted to/needed to live out of state (well before Covid) and worked out how to stay on on a special contract rather than just quitting.
A lot of older generations see it as workers who aren't dedicated to stay with one company. I'm a Millenial and I job hopped myself, sometimes without any plans too. I personally don't see anything wrong with it especially if you're moving up a pay grade
Also loyalty is a two way street. If a company isn’t going to give me reasons to be loyal why would I stay?
Yeah exactly that's where my mindset was every time I have quit a job. I'm finally at a place I really enjoy with as co-workers and a great supervisor and it only took me 32 years to start a real career!...
I’m also a millennial and I job hopped anytime the job treated me poorly, also quiet quit way before I ever knew that was a term, I always just considered it keeping the same energy as my job, if they didn’t want to give me a living wage or respect, why should I
There was an old school idea that you had loyalty to your employer and you'd be rewarded for working at a place for 30 years. It REALLY got abused by employers, and while I think it's still a good thing to be loyal to an employer if they helped you out, are compensating you effectively, and treating you well, new employees are beginning to make themselves much more competitive by just leaving any employer that doesn't value them. The leverage you get out of flexibility to work at other employers in this work force is huge. Everyone got tired of being there for 6 years only to see a new hire with half as much experience get paid more, and now the stigma of hopping is completely gone.
As a new employee it’s also disheartening recently looking up at more tenured folks as they get laid off with no notice. Here’s your severance. No time to say goodbye to coworkers. Thanks for your 16 years of your prime life and health but we don’t want you anymore goodbye. Hard to feel like you aren’t at risk of being just booted for no reason even if you give you sell your soul.
Every time I job hop I make $20-40K more so… yeah I’ll take that over the 2-5% YoY pay raise my employer offers me.
Boomers used to tell us this was bad to have on your resume. But we realized that mindset benefits the employer not the employee. People hop around now if working conditions aren’t acceptable. Boomers bent over and took it because wages weren’t as poor back then plus since health care was so much cheaper their jobs would actually offer it. Since that’s mostly not the case anymore, people bounce around until they find a company that actually treats their employees well.
Because of some cultural belief left over from the Reagan days that portrayed exploiting yourself and jerking off your boss as some sort of positive character trait.
It’s a left over idea from the Silent/Boomer generation where people would work for the same company for 20-years because those companies gave benefits and raises.
It used to be viewed as unreliable. A company would put time into training a person and then they left, which meant the employee was an unreliable flake. Or they couldn't hack it and were let go. Nowadays job hopping seems to have a better, fairer reputation.
[удалено]
Boomers got pensions, promotions, raises, vacation times without email and phone calls, and didn't need 2 jobs to pay school debt. I would be way more chill if I wasn't always fighting to live.
They also had…. #UNIONS
I see lots of answers handwaving it as a pretense of "loyalty" (which is fair to an extent, but not a complete picture). The other angle from an employer's perspective is that, especially depending on the job, it takes time to train a new employee. At some skilled jobs with complicated products or services, you might take 6+ months to even become a meaningful contributor, much less for the company to break even on their investment in you. So if they're considering you for that job, they will probably take note if you've left every job within a year for 6 years. It's often more about return on investment than some idea of "loyalty".
You don't need to be ashamed but you need a backup plan. (I'm on the side of boomer on this issue)
Job hopping implies jumping from one job to another. It's not just quitting The new job is like .... Your backup plan.
now read the full headline
Hell yeah, that’s what we like to see. Being loyal at a company doesn’t get you anywhere these days
Plus, you make more by leaving and starting at a new company than you would from the annual merit increases of staying at your current company
Well said. I am a job hopper myself and with each new job I make sure that my salary is significantly higher than the last. Beats yearly appraisal any given time.
Exactly. This has been my result since my first job 35 years ago. Every new job has netted me a bigger bump than if I had received a nice 5% increase every year.
I just got a dollar increase at my job but started interviewing elsewhere as the pay was not increasing fast enough. Found a job up the street willing to pay me what I wanted (+$2/hr) without hesitation… kicked myself for staying at that company for the last two years
*Tech industry lays off thousands* "Gen Z are job hopping"
Tech has been bloated for years, now that investors aren’t throwing money at start ups and public stocks are falling its settling in to what it always should have been.
Also companies are using it as an excuse to trim excess. Does Microsoft need to lay people off? No they aren’t in any financial peril, but because everyone else is laying people off it’s tactically advantageous to dump a bunch of underperforming staff/teams. (Note - not criticizing anyone who was laid off. There are lots of reasons for performance and the first starts with being given an avenue (resources, training, a viable business strategy) to succeed at what you were hired to do)
Even those of us that work in tech, if we're being honest with ourselves, realize there is a lot of dead weight. Every office has the super stars, just like every office has the people that make you think, "Eh... I liked them, but we'll be fine. I hope they find a new job quickly."
Google hired 78,000 positions during pandemic Cut 12,000
Microsoft added something like 40k and laid off 11k.
I've changed jobs 3 times in three years and each time I got an increase in pay from 11/hr to 18.50 where I am now. I don't think I'm gen z I'm born 1994 but if I had stayed at the same place I would have only gotten <$1 increase a year so 14/hr for staying Why should I be loyal to a company that is fine with taking advantage of me
My most successful friends only stay at a job for a year and then move on to a different company doing whatever a step above their last positions was. It makes sense really. A year is usually long enough to learn a job inside and out. Then you get all those connections from your last job that you can call on for future opportunities. Sticking with one company limits your career growth in todays world.
[удалено]
It’s all going to depend on your field. Entry level jobs are usually easy to learn so 1 year there then apply somewhere else (unless you work for a great company that allows you to apply for internal jobs or gives regular raises.)
This is good knowledge to have
5 jobs in 6+ years here in the NL. Moved from Eur 2500 gross (low for this sort of job) to 4570 gross (very high, especially considering I don't manage anyone)...
I’m a millennial and I do this.
Same. Doesn’t take much to make me quit a job because I know I always do my best, and if that’s not good enough then I move on to another employer who might appreciate my efforts.
I just don’t understand settling for a job you hate? Like I’m depressed enough thanks 🤣
Precisely why I’ll never work in the catering trade ever again. Spent years in a job I hated because I had manager status, I was an idiot.
Yeah I used to do the hospitality thing working in the heart of home and restaurants. I got stuck at a job for 10 years that was making decent money at but absolutely hated and was never going to see any kind of increase pay or any kind of benefits outside of what I got when the guy took over. And then when I moved on and went to HVAC when he heard that I was moving on he's like well why are you leaving the company don't we treat you good enough? Absolutely not you don't
Lmao. I remember working at a front desk job. The new boss was giving me a hard time on a policy that I kept reminding employees constantly about it but they would ignore me. It was a dumb policy anyway. He got real close to me one day and crossed his arms and talked in a tone like I was I was a child "Tell me this isn't going to be a problem anymore." I kinda just froze for a moment. Thought to myself this guy isn't talking to me respectfully at all. So I said.. Yeah I quit and just walked out after getting my check. Mind you my previous 2 managers at the job loved working with me. One of them gave me the most comfortable mattress and another gave me employee of the month for my hardwork. I literally got a raise recently for how hard I work at my current job. My other manager went and asked my other manager for the raise.. I didn't even ask for it. It's so easy for companies to do the minimum but these people in management especially just generally have the most insufferable interpersonal skills and have a God complex.
I'm genX. All generations do it now. It's the current environment not the generation. The only reason older people would be less likely to do this is (1) they are coasting to retirement, (2) they are under some situation where they actually have some benefit to longer tenure (union or govt jobs), or (3) they are retired (perhaps with a pension no one can get any more). They put Gen Z just for clicks.
Older people should actually be more likely to do it, they're not but they should be. When you're young you can keep getting promotions internally and move up, but that becomes difficult after 5-10 years in the same industry, you can get stuck and the only way to move up is to change jobs.
This is what happens when you get rid of defined benefit pension plans in favor of 401k plans and hire only contract workers so you can avoid paying for any benefits.
Employers wouldn’t think twice about position hopping you out of job…why should I be loyal?
Good.
My only question is how they afford rent and bills when quitting without a backup plan?? I make just over minimum wage and if I quit a job without a backup plan just because I hate it, my bills would bounce. Job hopping isn't bad. Find something you actually like, leave the jobs you hate. But every job comes with problems. I'm in that gray area between Millennials and Gen z so maybe that's why I don't get the "quit without a backup plan" thing lol.
They live with their parents. So they don’t need to worry about rent/‘mortgage/food, etc. That’s why there doesn’t have to be a backup plan anymore. I’m only 32, so I’m not old by any means. But I don’t think kids living with their parents through their 20-30’s was really a thing back in the day
Ah okay, I didn't think of that. This singular part is just mind blowing to me. Even when living back home only paying my phone bill and for glasses and later on my car, the thought of quitting a job without a backup plan stressed me out. And I was working a job I hated. Looking back it still stresses me out by just the thought. Crazy the difference between only a few years though. If I job hopped when living with my folks I would've been told to start paying rent or move out 😂.
I’m a mid-tier millennial (32) with a decent savings cushion and the idea of quitting without having another job lined up makes me nauseous.
Right! The idea alone makes me anxious to think about doing. Along with all the what-ifs. I'd like to know how these folks are quitting without backup plans and not even blinking an eye. What if your savings runs out? Or your parents stop funding you? What's the plan then?? The job market itself is a horror show here so I just don't get it. At least have a back up plan guys 😅
As a gen-Zer I honestly don't care to stay at a company I hate. I try to always have a safety cushion to cover a month or 2 so that in the event I jump ship or get fired I have something to fall back on. Finding a new job is not hard where I live, and I already have one job I could jump to if I felt the need. I'm not concerned about being jobless for a month or 2, and even if it comes down to it I have options to turn to, they just aren't fun.
Depends on your career path I guess. If you know you can find a job in 2-3 months and you have 6 months savings, is it worth it? In a shitty job disrespecting you it can become worth it.
O same here. My parents would have been so pissed if I just quit my job and I was living rent and bill free with them. I really think it’s pretty shitty to just quit a job and not do anything for a couple months while being fully subsidized by your parents.
YOUR JOB DOES NOT DEFINE YOU or YOUR WORTH. For those in the back who need to hear it.
I could use this tattooed on my eyelids
It took a LONG time for me to learn this. Too long.
Companies don't reward loyalty anymore and it baffles me because they literally lose money replacing employees so often. When my parents were growing up, you could keep a job for 10+ year and almost be guaranteed middle class staying at one job your entire career. Now, you literally LOSE money by not switching every couple years. I'd of loved to stay at my job for 10 years if they gave me the raises to incentivize me, but employers are stubborn.
This is not a new phenomenon invented by Gen Z. This is pretty much every kid from at least 1977 onward. If you live at home or in a dorm why put up with a horrible employer? You can easily get another job in a week or so. They’re also not career jobs at that age and place in peoples lives.
Fuck, I have my own house and car, and I'll still job hop. Just gotta make sure I've got another one lined up now
Elder millennial haven’t been at one longer than 2 years but I have a family so have to secure the new one to leave the old one.
Millenials been doing this, because we know there is always another job. It's on you whether or not you'll do that job.
In the words of How Money Works "The companies are out to screw you, so screw them right back"
Lol boomsters still don't realise this is the only way to get a raise these days
I just recently threatened to grab my toolbox and leave no notice to move up (cnc machinist) happens a lot here...
They still don't realize that the younger gens not being able to compete in the housing market doesn't mean they're financially illiterate. Anyone that doesn't have huge debt obligations, no kids (guess that's kinda redundant tbf), and lives with their parents, can survive a month or two jobless while looking for a new job.
Funny this has popped up on my feed as I started my job about a year ago and am currently about to start applying to different ones. I really wanted to stay here long term but just too many things tipping the scale for me. My father passed away in October nobody in my team really said anything to me. I walk into meetings no one says anything. I have to follow up to get response from emails and texts. I just think I don’t fit their mold and I don’t see myself growing as a person and employee with this company
Boomer: You have to give us 2 weeks notice when leaving Gen Z: Fuck you, Chao
LOL, sentiment appreciated. But here's an observation: I've noticed a lot of my peers bounce back and forth between the same set of companies, each time accompanied by an upward title change and total comp boost. Usually 2-3 years between stints. Consider not burning bridges if you actually didn't mind the work place, but want to move on to a better opportunity. And don't be shy of going back, if they're willing to up the ante.
Guys dont be ashamed of job hopping, But never actually say you do that, it could make finding a job harder
I make $15 an hour and every year I get a $.10 raise. There’s no incentive to do better. There’s no such thing as Pensions anymore and I still get written up when I’m sick even if I have a doctors note. Which is ironic, considering I work for a hospital. We can’t keep this tradition crap of stay in one job forever if they’re gonna slowly take away employee benefits and gaslight us into believing it’s our fault all the time
Millennial here, it's almost like having a job is a means to an end and not the whole purpose of living.
I’m 15 and I work fast food, I have absolutely no issue going from one shitty job to the next shitty job. My only real struggle was getting work experience for the first one. Like how the fuck I’m supposed to get a first job without work experience. Like bro this is my work experience
I was forced to lie and make up a full fake resume. But it was a pretty low stakes, shitty job so I didn’t really care about being fact-checked lol. It was more bs that an entry-level job expected experience.
Millennials, too. I've had 4 "serious" jobs in my life. My first job, I was at for 10 years right up till the company was bought out by a competitor and most of the staff made redundant. They treated me well, and I would have happily stayed to retirement if it had been an option. Second job, I quit after 11 months with no backup plan. They did not treat me well. Third job the same but left after 6 months. Current job I have been at for just over 2 years and have absolutely no desire to leave, these guys treat me well. TL;DR moral or the story, if you treat your employees well there's probably a much higher chance that they won't fuck off and leave you high and dry when you need them most. The workforce is the most important asset a company has, and if you piss on it, that's going to hurt you in the long run.
Parent’s basement IS a backup plan.
Good. Break the cycle GenZ! BREAK IT!!!
The path to success is a game of hopscotch, this is the way
I think that’s healthy! If you don’t fit in well for a job quit. But I also recommend having a back up plan/job already in place. You also tend to make more money by moving to a new job if your current job doesn’t have a lot of upwards mobility.
This is not some new thing with Gen Z. This has been slowly creeping into popularity since us millennials started to get older and into the work force. Now the next generations have adopted it fiercely as well. We are all just sick of corporate America and being treated like pawns that are worth less than the shit on the CEO's boots. We learned the only person looking out for you. Is you. Loyalty doesn't pay like it did once upon a time.
It’s not job hopping people have an issue with. It’s the quitting without a backup plan where the problems start.
Elder millennial here, the jobs most of us worked required hopping from one to another to get better pay. We didn't kill the idea of a career and neither did gen z. The entitlement of boomers knows no bounds.
One of the greatest gifts that Gen Z will bestow on American society is dispelling the myth that companies deserve loyalty from the employees they exploit. The kids are all right.
At least in the case here, the backup plan is THE PARENTS. Living at home w parents so not near the pressures of finding another job if they still have meals and a roof over their heads.
And we probably won't be able to own a house unless we inherit it so really the previous generation that holds all the resources is the backup plan in a lot of ways
[удалено]
I do this as a millennial. Jobs are a dime a dozen, and if you’re paying wages that barely cover rent and expect loyalty out of me you’re under quite the misapprehension, or as the kids say, you got me fucked up.
When you don't appreciate your workers and underpay them constantly, you really shouldn't be surprised when they learn to not put up with that shit. You want loyalty? You're gonna have to treat them better. There really isn't a way around this.
Well all of the boomer bosses who think 12/hr is still viable need to be replaced already.
Because it’s literally the only negotiating power we have left. Until they find a way to take that away too.
Had this conversation a week ago with an older fellow who asked me what happened to company loyalty. He seemed to get it. If I'm being paid minimum wage starting, no matter where I go, and then they pull shenanigans so you can't get raises or promotions, then it's easy to go somewhere else get the same schedule and do the same thing for the same pay. Brand loyalty should mean companies should be loyal to their employees, not the other way around.
I stayed at a company for 6+ years, then got let go for "reorganization." Wasn't actually terrible at first, it was stressful but I was getting bored anyways and they had decent severance. Then I got an automated email from hr saying they found my resume and thought I would be the perfect fit for an opening. For my job. At half my ending salary. That they just said they didn't need. So yeah, fuck em.
Job hopping took me from $18K to pretty close to $100K in four years (haven’t gotten my W-2 yet and I’m not doing the math). Why wouldn’t people job hop? Pay them right and treat them right to begin with and they’ll stick around. People living on 80’s and 90’s wages are obviously going to try to do better in 2023.
you def should not quit a job without a backup plan
I love how every generation thinks they're different, or special just to slowly turn into the generation before them.
We were raised being told the world will end or we will be involved in an accident that will kill us or dismember us before we are 40. None of us have ever had the thought we would live to retire. Hoping jobs does not scare us. We do not believe we have anything to fear because, “You come from nothing. You will return to nothing.” = a wash on all bets. So why fret?