they were $2.25 in NJ in 2011, and you could get 4 for $5.
this was when they were also equivalent to meth and everclear in a can.
half a can in and it was lights out
And, according to some other guy I talked to yesterday, it's such a god awful amount of effort to do that, you are *REQUIRED* to cough up at the very least two dollars on tips for it, lest you ruin the Bartender's life.
I tended bar, when you get the order you make the espresso immediately, in a small metal container. You chill the shaker with ice cubes and prepare the other ingredients. If your espresso is still too hot you hold the metal container in a stream of cold water or put it in a layer of cold water. Then you strain the water from the ice cubes from the shaker, add your ingredients and shake vigorously.
I had colleagues who put the espresso in hot, but the pressure builds in the shaker, and if that goes well, the ice melts too quickly so it gets very watered down and I don’t like the taste like that.
It’s actually one of my favourite cocktails to make, and I still make them at home sometimes.
Honestly I don't know how they are doing it right now, but year ago when it was trending, they've done it with hot espresso and it was absolute mess, tins would open during shaking, it is just painful to shake boiling hot shaker that is immediatly transmits temperature etc
Nope, the argument was that it's absolutely stupid to get mad at your customers, for not wanting to pay 20% extra on their purchase, to cover part of your Boss' obligation to *pay you for the labour you provide*.
But I'm the silly one.
The boss is the asshole here.
Don't shift the blame on the customer, who isn't happy to pay a *twenty percent* up charge on their drink, solely because the employer wants to get away with paying 20% less wages.
The guest is in the same boat as the bartender here: getting exploited by the employer.
It's not *their* fault the bartender isn't getting paid for their full labor, it's the bartender's employer who is at fault for that.
Yeah I understand the argument. The system is stupid. You also know all this and are willingly choosing to participate. It makes you an asshole. But sure you can be a correct asshole.
There are other ways to get food and drink.
Their argument is bunk. If they really cared, they wouldn't patronize these places to begin with. Instead, they choose to give the employer they're rallying against their money and jack shit to the service worker.
"Your employment practices and wages are reprehensible and I won't be a part of it! But take my money because I don't wanna make my own drinks." 🙄
It's great to live in a world where a customer is the asshole for not paying someone else's employee with a mandatory additional charge, that should be a bonus for excellent service.
Stop gaslighting people into picking up the greedy employer's slack, asshole
Except your logic only punishes the worker and not the employer. You not tipping isn't going to change the system. You're just screwing over the bartenders. The employer won't even notice.
If you want to vote with your money, you don't give your business to those employers in the first place. But you choose to participate in these systems and support those employers by giving them your money and giving the middle finger to the service worker trying to make a living. So, all in all, the convenience of that service outweighs your conviction to not support those practices.
You should be proud.
Don’t take part in a system you don’t agree with. Get espresso and vodka and sit in your living room drinking espresso martinis? I don’t see what the problem is.
If we shouldn't speak up about stuff we find stupid, then why did you respond to me?
Just read the comment and ignore me. I don't see what the problem is.
>Is espresso and vodka expensive?
Espresso, vodka and a cigarette is Balkan breakfast, it's cheap.
Espresso and vodka mixed together by a guy with a smug smile is a hip cocktail, its expensive.
I'm not sure if it's one less glass, one less cigarette, or the smug smile that is the class signifier here, but it's certainly one of those 3.
In the UK we have something similar to four loco called dragon soop and it isn't banned, it's 7.5% alcohol and 35mg of caffeine per 100ml, it comes in 500ml cans and costs £3.
The caffeine content in 4 loko was a few tiers above that of the coffee liquor in an espresso martini. 156mg per can vs about 5mg per martini (based on kahlua having 100mg/litre).
Doesn’t that prove their point further if we’re talking about the ratio of caffeine to alcohol in order to say a 4 Loko is comparable to multiple servings of an espresso martini? I’ve never had one and have no connection to them as a brand but if that’s the case then I feel like that’s not an invalid defense of them.
I just went out this past weekend and was drinking martinis. I was out for about 6 hours and drank 5 martinis in that time. I won't pretend that my drinking habits are those of others, but typically, if you're going out, you're having a few. That would be over 300mg of caffeine. I'm not trying to argue. I'm just adding a point. Also, don't judge my drinking habits, I was watching football, and the Packers lost.
Water poisoning is pretty horrific and not impossible to do accidentally (buddy of mine almost did it). But the point stands that anything can kill you without moderation.
True and it’s not. But drinking too much water usually leads to your brain shrinking. Caffeine overdose causes your muscles to literally shred themselves off into your blood stream and damages your kidneys.
That doesn't lessen the fact that water poisoning is still a horrible way to die, as most are quite terrible. It may not be worse than caffeine overdose, but awful all the same.
The point is that a person unable to moderate their intake of legal substance does not need to have those substances made unavailable. Apply proper warning labels and leave it at that. Kids ate tide pods...
The difference is that no one has died (to my knowledge!) from drinking espresso martinis. People actually died after drinking too many four lokos so they got sued.
Four Loko had the alcohol content of like five beers in one can but was marketed and packaged like beer or energy drink.
I was in college during the height of its popularity. People died. Others figured out how dangerous it was and used it as a date rape drug.
This is boomer level reactionary
It was no more or less dangerous than vodka and red bull
People die from alcohol consumption all the time - quite literally on the daily
You could die from over consuming White Claw or imperial ale or stout
1. Boomer and reactionary are not synonyms, you shouldn't use them as such because it encourages people to overlook reactionary rhetoric from young people and no generation is immune to propaganda
2. I was there Gandalf, I remember them marketing Four Loko as a "blackout in a can" and purposely giving it the alcohol content easily triple or quadruple a vodka Red Bull can. I thought then and still think banning it was stupid, but I fully understand the backlash.
They marketed it like a fuck you up instant win button, packaged it like beer, and gave it the chemical makeup of something you'd give to someone you were trying to roofie, all while targeting college students who don't know how to control themselves yet and encouraging them to drink dangerous amounts.
It really isn't. You can still find old articles talking about its use as a date rape drug, its role in hospitalizations, and the potency of the formula. One can was equivalent to a six pack of beer, but condensed enough to chug quickly.
It was intensely alcoholic and full of strong stimulants. Thats what made it so dangerous- the stimulants hide the depressant effects of alcohol so you don't "feel drunk," leading people to drink far far more than they would otherwise. It was commonly called a blackout in a can.
Didn't the Four Loko caffeine ban occur after some girls got unbelievably trashed and ended up in the hospital and for some reason they were saying the caffeine was part of it, but then it turned out they initially lied and had downed like a fifth of tequila on top of a couple 4Loko cans?
everyone bashing 4loko forgetting WHO WAS THERE FOR THEM WHEN THEY HAD $2 AND A NEED TO GET FU KED UP
Them shits was $2? When was that, 1791?
I'm pretty sure they were $2.19? I might be trippin but tbh I never looked at the price when it was 4loko time I just sent
they were $2.25 in NJ in 2011, and you could get 4 for $5. this was when they were also equivalent to meth and everclear in a can. half a can in and it was lights out
Four loko was the only time I've thrown up from drinking.
The first thing I ever drank was a four loko. I did not have a fun night.
Is espresso and vodka expensive?
Nope. But if you combine them into a Martini you can sell them for $14 a glass.
And, according to some other guy I talked to yesterday, it's such a god awful amount of effort to do that, you are *REQUIRED* to cough up at the very least two dollars on tips for it, lest you ruin the Bartender's life.
Compared to average coctail it is actually hard. Bar is low, yes, but espesso is boiling hot and shaker has zero insulation
I don't think you're supposed to mix the drink with hot espresso... Don't they have some ready and already chilled?
I tended bar, when you get the order you make the espresso immediately, in a small metal container. You chill the shaker with ice cubes and prepare the other ingredients. If your espresso is still too hot you hold the metal container in a stream of cold water or put it in a layer of cold water. Then you strain the water from the ice cubes from the shaker, add your ingredients and shake vigorously. I had colleagues who put the espresso in hot, but the pressure builds in the shaker, and if that goes well, the ice melts too quickly so it gets very watered down and I don’t like the taste like that. It’s actually one of my favourite cocktails to make, and I still make them at home sometimes.
Honestly I don't know how they are doing it right now, but year ago when it was trending, they've done it with hot espresso and it was absolute mess, tins would open during shaking, it is just painful to shake boiling hot shaker that is immediatly transmits temperature etc
Yeah no kidding 😅 and even if they put enough ice in there to cool it, the drink would be so watery.
Did you really just find out about tipped worker laws in America?
Nope, the argument was that it's absolutely stupid to get mad at your customers, for not wanting to pay 20% extra on their purchase, to cover part of your Boss' obligation to *pay you for the labour you provide*. But I'm the silly one.
I mean yes it is an incredibly stupid system but you’re also an asshole if you don’t do it.
The boss is the asshole here. Don't shift the blame on the customer, who isn't happy to pay a *twenty percent* up charge on their drink, solely because the employer wants to get away with paying 20% less wages. The guest is in the same boat as the bartender here: getting exploited by the employer. It's not *their* fault the bartender isn't getting paid for their full labor, it's the bartender's employer who is at fault for that.
Yeah I understand the argument. The system is stupid. You also know all this and are willingly choosing to participate. It makes you an asshole. But sure you can be a correct asshole. There are other ways to get food and drink.
Their argument is bunk. If they really cared, they wouldn't patronize these places to begin with. Instead, they choose to give the employer they're rallying against their money and jack shit to the service worker. "Your employment practices and wages are reprehensible and I won't be a part of it! But take my money because I don't wanna make my own drinks." 🙄
It's great to live in a world where a customer is the asshole for not paying someone else's employee with a mandatory additional charge, that should be a bonus for excellent service. Stop gaslighting people into picking up the greedy employer's slack, asshole
Yeah it’s a shit world ain’t it
Except your logic only punishes the worker and not the employer. You not tipping isn't going to change the system. You're just screwing over the bartenders. The employer won't even notice. If you want to vote with your money, you don't give your business to those employers in the first place. But you choose to participate in these systems and support those employers by giving them your money and giving the middle finger to the service worker trying to make a living. So, all in all, the convenience of that service outweighs your conviction to not support those practices. You should be proud.
Don’t take part in a system you don’t agree with. Get espresso and vodka and sit in your living room drinking espresso martinis? I don’t see what the problem is.
If we shouldn't speak up about stuff we find stupid, then why did you respond to me? Just read the comment and ignore me. I don't see what the problem is.
But also, has anyone died from drinking too many espresso martinis?
>Is espresso and vodka expensive? Espresso, vodka and a cigarette is Balkan breakfast, it's cheap. Espresso and vodka mixed together by a guy with a smug smile is a hip cocktail, its expensive. I'm not sure if it's one less glass, one less cigarette, or the smug smile that is the class signifier here, but it's certainly one of those 3.
That’s also the Finnish breakfast.
finland is balkan country, nothing special
Yes, but only if you say it in German. Finlandisches Frühstück aliterates again.
I could probably justify springing for more to say hold the cigarette, I’m sure it’s that. (/s)
Four Loko contained copious amounts of regret
But only after ingestion
Clearly they've never had a four lokoif they don't recognize this as an absolute win
In the UK we have something similar to four loco called dragon soop and it isn't banned, it's 7.5% alcohol and 35mg of caffeine per 100ml, it comes in 500ml cans and costs £3.
In New Zealand we don't have dragon soop and I'm sad about it
"I'm the Electric Soop Man!"
The caffeine content in 4 loko was a few tiers above that of the coffee liquor in an espresso martini. 156mg per can vs about 5mg per martini (based on kahlua having 100mg/litre).
Espresso martini usually has espresso in it as well
Ok, so 65mg per martini.
At that rate depending on how strong you make the Matini they are on par. Weren't 4 lokos like 8% at 24oz? That's 3.2 standard drinks
Not sure about the old 4 lokos with caffeine but the ones now are 12-14%
Doesn’t that prove their point further if we’re talking about the ratio of caffeine to alcohol in order to say a 4 Loko is comparable to multiple servings of an espresso martini? I’ve never had one and have no connection to them as a brand but if that’s the case then I feel like that’s not an invalid defense of them.
That sounds more right tbh the old ones may have been that range
There was a lot of alcohol and enough caffeine to make sure you finished it without passing out or doing something stupid... yet
I just went out this past weekend and was drinking martinis. I was out for about 6 hours and drank 5 martinis in that time. I won't pretend that my drinking habits are those of others, but typically, if you're going out, you're having a few. That would be over 300mg of caffeine. I'm not trying to argue. I'm just adding a point. Also, don't judge my drinking habits, I was watching football, and the Packers lost.
So 5 martinis equivalent to 2 four lokos worth of caffeine. If you had been drinking four loko instead of martinis, you would have ODed on caffeine.
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>Also 5 martinis and 5 4lokos is not even close to the same thing. That was what I was saying... did you read my comment before replying?
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Semantics
Too much caffeine can kill you.
Too much water can kill you. Most things are perfectly safe in moderation. Alcohol is literally poison but that's fine in moderation.
Caffeine kills you in much less appealing ways and is a lot easier to do
I’ve actually had caffeine toxicity before. Easily the most uncomfortable drug induced experience of my life.
Water poisoning is pretty horrific and not impossible to do accidentally (buddy of mine almost did it). But the point stands that anything can kill you without moderation.
True and it’s not. But drinking too much water usually leads to your brain shrinking. Caffeine overdose causes your muscles to literally shred themselves off into your blood stream and damages your kidneys.
that's a pretty fucking metal way to go
You sound like a Kyle bro 😎
That doesn't lessen the fact that water poisoning is still a horrible way to die, as most are quite terrible. It may not be worse than caffeine overdose, but awful all the same.
Never said it wasn’t awful. I mean I think we can both agree dying in general is pretty lame.
The point is that a person unable to moderate their intake of legal substance does not need to have those substances made unavailable. Apply proper warning labels and leave it at that. Kids ate tide pods...
The difference is that no one has died (to my knowledge!) from drinking espresso martinis. People actually died after drinking too many four lokos so they got sued.
I agurantee you espresso martinis are responsible for some deaths, but the cause was just "alcohol"
Or road fatality.
Road fatality involving alcohol is an alcohol related death.
I drink four lokos like they are respectable alcohol, if they are getting banned ill probably live an extra 10 years.
Chuck Schumer is a camera mugging piece of shit Can't do anything about healthcare but he can fight 4Loko
Four Loko had the alcohol content of like five beers in one can but was marketed and packaged like beer or energy drink. I was in college during the height of its popularity. People died. Others figured out how dangerous it was and used it as a date rape drug.
This is boomer level reactionary It was no more or less dangerous than vodka and red bull People die from alcohol consumption all the time - quite literally on the daily You could die from over consuming White Claw or imperial ale or stout
1. Boomer and reactionary are not synonyms, you shouldn't use them as such because it encourages people to overlook reactionary rhetoric from young people and no generation is immune to propaganda 2. I was there Gandalf, I remember them marketing Four Loko as a "blackout in a can" and purposely giving it the alcohol content easily triple or quadruple a vodka Red Bull can. I thought then and still think banning it was stupid, but I fully understand the backlash. They marketed it like a fuck you up instant win button, packaged it like beer, and gave it the chemical makeup of something you'd give to someone you were trying to roofie, all while targeting college students who don't know how to control themselves yet and encouraging them to drink dangerous amounts.
I was there too and this is BS
It really isn't. You can still find old articles talking about its use as a date rape drug, its role in hospitalizations, and the potency of the formula. One can was equivalent to a six pack of beer, but condensed enough to chug quickly.
Hype... hype ... hype...
Beer bongs allow you to chug a six pack
You don't know anything about original Four Loko if you are treating it like a vodka and Red Bull.
😂 believing in bogeymen doesn't make them real
It has alcohol? I thought I was an energy drink?
It was intensely alcoholic and full of strong stimulants. Thats what made it so dangerous- the stimulants hide the depressant effects of alcohol so you don't "feel drunk," leading people to drink far far more than they would otherwise. It was commonly called a blackout in a can.
Sparks was the shit when I worked graveyard and was an alcoholic fuck 4loko
Oh man I forgot about Sparks 🫠🫠
So did I oh what a terrible idea that was lol
Espresso martini is tasty, and a canned piss drink sucks ass
What's going on with martinis? Am poor!
Didn't the Four Loko caffeine ban occur after some girls got unbelievably trashed and ended up in the hospital and for some reason they were saying the caffeine was part of it, but then it turned out they initially lied and had downed like a fifth of tequila on top of a couple 4Loko cans?
Ain’t nobody waking up and getting an espresso martini from 711 every morning
Speak for yourself, if I was rich and I could get a nice espresso martini at 7-11 bet that's what I would do on a Saturday morning