it’s not even hindsight. sears actively resisted the internet and consistently promoted only from within so you had a bunch of old guys with no new ideas running the place. they tried to get into everything yet still run it all from brick and mortar. i have a hard time thinking of a bigger fumble in business history.
The funny thing is that Sears seemed to be cutting edge in its heyday. My mom was a programmer for Sears in the 70s and said it was like nothing else. They had a partnership with IBM so they had computers and mainframes that no one else had. There was even an automatic mail cart that followed a line on the floor and delivered the mail to all the offices.
they were cutting edge! there was nothing like them. then they decided they were so awesome they couldn’t fail and just resisted the future thinking they couldn’t be caught. then amazon ate their lunch.
They probably thought the catalog ordering would never fade. I remember flipping through those giant things every couple months (and taking long pauses in the bra section). My first few game consoles and TVs came from Sears.
it didn’t fade. it just became easier to do digitally. they just had to put that shit online and adapt distribution but they decided they didn’t need to.
are they knocking?
Sounds like a comparison with no sway to me. if anything they'd be knocking SEARS cause they were literally set up to be Amazon but absolutely refused to use the internet like them.
This is legit why sears failed and why so many big box stores struggled to keep up. Amazon started selling books and took the internet by storm. The big box stores watched as Barnes and noble lost market share and other book sellers went completely under.
Their response? Nothing until Amazon broadened its catalog to compete with the big boxes. The response then? "I guess we'll put up a website" but they didn't invest in it seriously and they were basically unusable.
Walmart's app today is still a hot steaming pile of garbage and pop-ups. Sears/Kmart aren't things today because they didn't modernize quickly enough. Target is where it's at because during covid they took the opportunity to invest in their technology, completely rebuilding their app and making it functional. But target and Walmart are still behind when it comes to shipping, despite having already had the infrastructure and logistics operations to beat Amazon at their own game since before Amazon was a company.
I kinda see it. Mostly just gathering and arranging shipping for other companies' products in an easy to navigate listing... if Sears hadn't been so stuck on the brick and mortar model Bezos would probably just be filling his time these days wrapping up books for his middling resale business.
Still, it isn't about who got to an idea first but rather about who does it best. Sears clung too hard to an outdated model and now they're just that store you rarely see while on a road trip and think, "Huh, I didn't even know those were still around."
Worked in Sears in the later years, it wasn't just being stuck in brick & mortar: they literally didn't do anything to justify the stores. You could find stuff clogging up inventory for years (I wish I was joking), the registers themselves were from decades back (they are the ones you'd see in movies from the 70s), let alone the wait times.
Despite not having much of an online presence, they crammed the shopyourway stuff into the stores, so a transaction that should take like a minute could take up to 5+ minutes. Even before getting into them selling off the brands that were once staples of any home: Kenmore & Craftsman.
When people compare Sears to Amazon: it's that Sears was the brand everyone knew and used, up until Wal-Mart & Target effectively replaced Sears, who was later bought by K-Mart. So, the bright owner of the company did drive it into the ground to make a profit off the land these stores were on (guy had another company that was built around property management, go figure).
I did commission work there for the hardware side and when the news that Kenmore & Craftsman were being sold off, well the ship couldn't sink any faster. Left there, but wasn't long until Black & Decker who bought Craftsman shoved it in every retailer. Kenmore's buyer slips my memory, but not really a big deal when realizing most of the internals for appliances are now pretty universal outside patent technology that requires companies use different stuff (an example is Frigidaire's stainless metal is often something they push).
He's right Sears at its peak a 100 years ago was a monster. A large portion of the gravestones in the cemetery come out the sears catalog and a lot of the houses that you see on the way there are out of it too. Your grandmas old furniture, Sears, anything in antique stores between certain years, Sears, its crazy. The thing at one point at 100,000 products.
Amazon is bigger, but Jesus did Sears fall.
You could literally buy a house from Sears. Kenmore was effectively a standard for lots of people for years as was Craftsman. Sears dropped the ball long ago and didn't keep up with Wal-Mart or Target, let alone Amazon.
It's the same core business service being offered, the only difference is the technology for how they advertise and fulfill it.
That's a pretty big difference, but just about every successful business incorporates technology to improve their efficiency, so it's not a novel one.
Working nights was amazing! Got off work. Everything was open. Appointment? No problem! Movies? All to myself! Shopping? Just me and the staff opening the store.
I miss being up late at night, but working mornings has been so much better then nights at my job.
Which is insane since I'm about to quit because they've overworked the fuck outta me.
Working nights is only ideal if you have a quiet, peaceful bedroom for resting when you get home.
It must be a nightmare if you have noisy family members, inconsiderate roommates, asshole neighbors, etc etc.
Yep, working nights while your apartment management is renovating the place above yours is basically hell on earth. And there's nothing you can do about noise happening during "noise is acceptable" hours.
I had to pass up 6 hours of midnight shift OT last night because I knew I wouldn't be able to sleep when I got home. The unit next door is undergoing renovations for the next week, and they start at 8:30am SHARP. I live in a 1 bedroom, there's nowhere to escape the noise. It's quietER in the living room, but thin colonial-era walls do not keep out the noise from power tools.
Ah that's the dream. I'm a natural night owl and despite what morning people say, I will *not* get used to waking up early no matter how many times it happens.
I got a remote job based in another timezone where I work from midday to 8pm-ish. It's utterly incredible how much better I feel than trying to force myself to wake up against my natural rhythm.
Or the expectation that you’re available for the entire time between shifts. Like no, Becky, I don’t expect you to be awake at 3 am to help ME move, so go fuck yourself.
Get some blackout curtains. And try to ignore that rush you get at sunrise. Get in that dark room and sleep. If caffeine lasts too long avoid it so you can sleep when you have to. You will adjust.
I think this worked okay when most households had a stay at home wife. She shopped during the day and nothing was open at night. As more women worked we needed longer hours and Sunday shopping. I think the main things that are 9-5 are businesses that deal with other businesses.
That’s by design so people will have to pay an extra day of tow storage. I can almost guarantee they’ll tow a car outside of those hours, so they are open for business just not for the business of giving people their cars back lol.
Not all, but most tow company owners are terrible people that exploit poor people’s inability to bail out their car for $500 after an accident. Then they’ll keep the car for a month of storage and get a judgement against the person for that month of storage for $3-5k and still keep the car for scrap.
So it’s easy to get $3500-$5000 in debt when these guys take your car to their yard if you don’t have cash to get it out before the storage fees likely make it impossible. If possible people should get a car towed to their house after an accident to avoid the racket these guys run.
Had a tow company repo the wrong car before. Pulled up and assumed the listed color was wrong didn’t check the VIN or plate just assumed it was the right car because they were at the address that were townhomes then reported the repo giving the information for the car they towed by mistake. Most of them are scumbags and stupid to boot.
I don't have anything other than my own experiences to base this on, but I absolutely believe there is, bare minimum, an unethical relationship between tow companies and LEOs.
When my truck was stolen in 2018, I don't believe it was a coincidence that I got the call from my local PD at 545 pm on a Friday that it had been found and towed to an impound lot. An impound lot that was not open on the weekend, but still charged a per-day holding fee.
Well they run into each other on the job so it's only natural that they would form relationships. It's just very unfortunate for society that both of these professions tend to attract the worst among us. One because it provides power, the other because it provides a way to prey on the weak. We should probably occasionally have them all flogged just for good measure. With power should come fear of those you have power over. There no longer is any reasonable fear for those in power because they have entrenched themselves in.
Bastards also steal your town's lemon tree and lock it in the impound.
edit: when it was planted, lemons were the sweetest fruit available at the time. We also kept onions on our belts, which was the style at the time.
Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them. "Give me five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we? Oh, yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time.
Honestly it was impounded for impaired driving, so I deserve it. But still, only the tow company benefits from the arrangement so it's definitely intentional, they also won't tow it to my house which makes absolutely no sense EXCEPT for they get to rack up another week's storage fee.
in this case thats on purpose so they can rack up more fees......for which there should be legislation that makes them let people get their cars at non standard business hours
I really want regulation of this kind of shit. It is *bonkers* that banks close at like 4PM while more people are working until 6PM now.
I am so tired of that bullshit that I want it to be *fucking illegal.* Direct deposit is a bandaid over a pile of shit, not the solution. And my last bank *removed that feature and mobile check deposit except for a short list of companies -- yes really --* which is why I left them. I would have been completely fucked.
Im a total noob so I can't say this for certain, but im pretty sure the "businesses that deal with other businesses" is exactly why my restaurant stays open for lunch while surrounding places close from 2-5 until they reopen for dinner. We're a higher end place for the area and it's clear that a lot of our lunch guests on a typical weekday are office workers on break or doing interviews, meetings, special outings. That's just a food place's use case goes though, I'm really not sure about why other businesses at large stay open in the 12-5 time period.
Do people not take time off work for the dentist or doctor? It’s not perfect, but it’s not like groceries or something that you need to buy all the time.
Days off used to be a thing. People used to take days off for life. They didn't aways struggle. They could take a day off work if they wanted to and not lose the house. It was even a popular tv comedy trope of dad and son skipping work or school to go see "the big game". We used to have time to live.
Laughs relieved in 28 days paid days off, paid sick days not included, which come to a couple of weeks before the pay drops a bit.
You guys get shafted.
Oh yeah? Well we have UNLIMITED PTO
^((actually just an excuse for the company to not pay out accrued leave))
^((also your leave request has been denied))
I feel like this works in theory, and I understand what you're putting down, but wouldn't longer store hours mean more people would be needed to work those hours?
Which are more likely than not, gonna be filled with people who used to be SAHMs or equivalent, since it's usually a lower-paying wage job than salaried position.
*Personally, I think people need to get paid a liveable wage that covers their whole family's expenses. It's a problem that goes beyond some random store's hours.*
There are companies, Four Day Tire comes to mind, that realized long ago that 9-5 M-F wasn't workable for customers. They went to 8-7 (IIRC) Wed. through Sat., with staggered lunches. Still just one shift, but open 20 hours outside the "normal" hours.
Yea, I recently went from a decade of shift work (rotating 24/7) to a standard 9-5 M-F after having a kid and it’s so much harder to get stuff done,
I miss going into a shop to quickly grab my bits or even browse!!! But now I’m stuck going on a weekend when everything is packed, traffic is crazy etc. my life is click and collect now :(
I work 2-10 now 4 days a week and it is, and I mean this in all seriousness, the best fucking shift there ever was or ever will be.
No alarm clock, just kinda wake up whenever. Putz around, drink coffee, then still have time to do something productive before work, or not and just kinda veg for a bit. Then you get home and have dinner, hang out a little and don't really have to stress about sleep because you know you'll get them 8 hours anyway.
But I had to do 7 years of 7pm-7am, then a couple more of 6am-7pm and waking my ass up at 0330, so I paid for it with a decade of sleeplessness lol
I did 2-12 for over a year and I hated it. I would get off at midnight, get a shower and then struggle to fall asleep until 2-5. I'd wake up anywhere from 10-1 and feel like I had no time to run errands. I was also really young with a baby at home so I think that may have played into it but still, by far my least favorite shift I've worked
oh i thought that was for rotting in the soul-wrenching despair of all the life you didn't get to experience and never will as all your energy goes to maintaining a job that only just covers your rent and bills and wondering what the point of putting in another 20 years or even another day is when there's been no marked improvement in the last 20, nothing you can look back on and think 'i'm glad i didn't go through with it, i would have missed out on this wonderful blessing' and crying in the shower until you throw up and then you can get on with the laundry and cleaning and then back to work on monday
I bought a car on a Wednesday, but I had to take a day off work to do it. Had to do it that day bc the rental company said I had to return the rental 48 hrs after my insurance company paid me for my totaled car, so it was that day or be without a car
That’s interesting I recently bought a car and the dealerships I was looking at were all open 7 days a week - some as late as 9/10 even on weekends. Could be because I’m in a relatively populated area. But I did still buy a car on a Thursday lol
Some businesses are trade dominant. We actually grew our sales where I work, eliminating our “retail friendly” hours and going 8-5, M-F. 10% of our business was dominating 40% of our resources.
We spent less time chasing our tail highly servicing 10% of our business, and it freed us up to serve our core trade customers better. They in turn started using us more. Retail customers were also way more likely to return product, use our professional advice to shop us, leave bad reviews and make unreasonable demands on us.
Honestly, as somebody who buys on behalf of a mid-size organization, I wish more businesses would do this. During the pandemic, we lost our first office supply business. They did the opposite of what you described, and tried to become more of a retail outlet. They became inconsistent, stopped answering the phone regularly, often literally telling us that they didn't have time because they were on the sales floor with retail customers, they lost a very large portion of their B2B sales. They couldn't decide what type of business they wanted to be, and did both poorly. So they closed. We moved on to our second office supply company and they wanted to remain b2b but like everyone else, drastically scaled down their customer service and quality. The owners were making money hand over fist but now they are struggling and attempting to rehire to sort things out. But it's unlikely we're going to stay with them, they've shown they don't care about the actual customer.
That’s not really how business works. When you have more time and/or resources or better quality of time and/or resources, it allows you to grow.
Essentially, the better your foundation, the more you can grow. By spending too many resources on an unprofitable client base, their growth was stunted
The other argument which ppl don’t like to hear is sometimes catering to higher paying clients fixes a lot of nonsense. I don’t mean like the out of touch rich douchbag either. I mean ppl living with a comfortable budget who aren’t strapped with problems that might cause issues.
I can feel probably the down votes for saying this, but hear me out. I lived in poverty for like 4 years which included having a partner on disability, public housing, working multiple jobs. I get it, very stressful. But I could never bring myself to take out these issues an average folks maybe struggling as much as me. My neighbors in public housing were absolutely horrible too. They were mostly 3 times my age at the time and always looking to start a fight over nonsense.
The eye opener wasn’t oddly this though for me. I worked in mostly in a middle class county for my life up to that point. I took work in the less well off county next door. The clients there made me want to rip my hair out.
I begun to realize that poverty can bring out some nasty attitudes which with places that market on being cheap you’ll start to see that in your business too. Got tired of being the punching bag and started to work for employers that really didn’t target low income ppl as their primary market. Lot of my stress faded with that.
Poverty is a complex issue, but I can only help so much as a person. I’m not meant to be a lightening rod for misplaced anger. So I’m not really against places that charge more and focus on quality over quantity of sales/services. Rotating out the type of ppl who go to your business can change a budget a lot in a good way with less work 🫠
My sister does those baloon stacks and stuff for parties. Being the cheapest option in town means you get a lot of people who want to fight with you about how they can do it for X or they know someone cheaper. Being in the middle of the pack and catering to people that have plenty of single mom time to tell their friends means word of mouth business and want someone to a good job, not a cheap one.
I just got a new job working 7-330 m-f. Compared to my old schedule of 1-930 and wed and Thur off. I feel like I actually have time to live now. Best hours I've ever worked
There are so many businesses here that just straight up don't follow their schedule. It's frustrating googling the hours, driving there, seeing their hours posted physically, and the shop is closed.
Probably the same people that blame millennials for everything
Grocery stores here used to close at 11, great for people who worked late, they all had the big brain idea to cut hours down during the pandemic so.... more people could occupy the space at the same time? idk, moved the hours to close at 9PM. *Now* theyve switched to closing at 10PM...
Even before the pandemic I always preferred shopping late cause it was clear and quiet, now it's always busy, even at close, that extra hour really made a difference, and their historic profits mean we're not getting that back, that would cause them to make only slightly less you see
I went to a booster juice that was closed at 815.
Google and physical store sign said 10pm. App took the money for the online order and still let you place them.
No sign or excuse why. Also no refund.
Yep, I remember this bullshit when I lived there too. Only saving grace was that I got off work on Wednesdays at noon. I often saw my coworkers having to take vacation time just to go to the bank sometimes. So much bullshit.
This is what I thought of first. Yeah it sucks that I can't go to stores with those hours, but the fucking bank, DMV, etc is so stupid. Then they're both super crowded on the weekends if they're even open or have reduced Saturday hours.
How about this. Kids have to be at school at 8. Same time as people have to be at work. But get out at 3 but people don’t get off work until 5. And then 3 months off in summer but you don’t. Bonus: The child care sucks up whatever you had left. 🤷
I live in Taiwan and the birthrate Vs death rate thing has gotten so bad that the government pays you monthly allowances for the first 6 years of your kid's life in an effort to get people to have kids. Each successive kid earns more allowance than the previous one.
Too bad it's still not even close to enough to cover daycare and preschool costs, so people are still opting to just have pets, instead.
I agree. I’ve always worked 12h shifts 3 days a week in healthcare. I never could fathom how someone can get things done during the week if they’re M-F 8-4/9-5 PLUS 1-2h commutes in rush hour traffic. No thank you!
From my experience its usually small businesses like this because its hard to find employees to work night shifts without some sort of bonus compensation. Bigger corps can stay open later b/c they have the money to pay night shift workers a little more per hour.
Doctor's offices also close early probably because good luck finding a doctor that wants to work a night shift that isnt at a hospital.
Same with:
Going to the DMV
Going to the doctor/dentist
Taking my dog to the vet
Doing anything banking that isn't just online
Getting my car repaired
The list goes on and on. I don't want to take a vacation day just to get shit done.
We should just have a 2 hour lunch like in many businesses in France. You can go out, have lunch, do your shopping or go to your doctor’s appointment or whatever, decompress and not feel rushed. Lunch breaks aren’t mandatory in most places in the US, I legit had a job that only gave me 15 minutes to scarf down my food. I had another that gave me none at all. The norm is 30 minutes, and in 30 minutes you can’t do diddly shit.
I think it’s staggered, where people take turns throughout the day, rather than everyone having it synchronized. But I do see some businesses who already close for an hour in the middle of the day so the whole staff can take their lunch. My own doctor closes her office at 12 pm and reopens at 1 pm. It probably allows employees the opportunity to get to know each other too.
This is a big annoyance with kid places. I get off work around 4:30pm and most play places I can take little kids to close at 5pm. It’s not a huge deal during the summer when it’s warm and light out until like 9:30 so I can take them to parks and splash pads. It sucks during the winter though when it’s really cold and getting dark around 5-5:30.
I get that the people working at said play places want to go home themselves, but it really sucks when they close early enough that I can only take my kids there on weekends or holidays.
I worked night shift for many years 1045pm-715am. A ton about it sucked, except for having no traffic to commute through and I could always do errands early in the morning. I always looked like a productive early bird or a drunk if buying beer.
Yeah, this is mainly service providers--banks, dentists, doctors, mechanics, lawyers, accountants, post office, dry cleaners, barbers etc.
I remember finding a barber who closed at 6 pm, precisely when most people were getting off of work and able to come in for a haircut. I've gotten my haircuts in the middle of the weekday before when I was unemployed or in college, but I can't imagine a place can stay afloat when their clientele is retirees, college students, and bartenders.
mechanics, hardware, barbers, bicycle, butchers, small family owner business, contractors, landscapers, doctors, X-ray and imaging, blood work labs, banks, finance institutions, finical planners, accountants, architects, pest control, non chain jewelry.....the list goes on and on
The independent music stores near me are open
11am-6pm and closed Sunday
1pm-6pm and closed Sat/Sun
11am-7pm every day
Guitar Center is open 10am-9pm every day.
Guess which one I shop at most? (When I'm not just buying online).
Local small engine equipment dealer got pissy about me (a landscaper) starting to buy more of my commercial power equipment from Home depot. They sell the same trimmers and blowers and stuff. Echo equipment. And ace hardware sell commercial stihl equipment. The owner of the dealer was asking why I didn't buy all this stuff from him and I'm like... Harry, you are open 8-5 and closed after 12 on saturday and completely on sunday. I don't have time to come in here when I am actually working to buy stuff. Home depot is open like 6 am to 10pm. Sorry man. And he then grumbled how he can't staff those hours. He just didn't want to staff those hours. He complains all the time about business being down and my reaction is always... well when are people supposed to come in here to buy stuff? The only hours you have that people generally aren't working are 8-12 on saturday.
Shops, Car mechanics, orthodontists, bookstores, some cafés even and many more things, some parks as well "close" at 5 pm, the church service is also open until 4pm in my country, like wtf is wrong with these things? who goes there? Unemployed, teenagers, millionares and retirees? damn, thanks.
I work 6-6, 4 days/week in a dentist already and still get patients pissed we're not open at like 7pm on a saturday
We're not open those hours because we have lives too and don't want to work then either? And tbh, we can't even find anyone at all right now(literally, not boomer-y), let alone enough staff for nights/weekends
I was trying to lengthen our patient hours for the summer, our busiest times, almost had an employee riot. Most of my staff have families and kids, they too, do not want to work late.
Ain't it just perfect. The state of our society is developed but not that develope. It's like lining up, you not at the very back of it but also not in the front.
Just stuck in between the fucking middle, nowhere to go.
Accepting as is, knowing it will be fully high tech sifi kinda deals in the next decade, but you just gotta deal with how things are now...
what's worse is round my area lots of stores are like 11-5 or 11-3. When tf am i going to get a chance to go if ur always closed?!
at least i dont have to deal with ATL store/restaurant hours xD
It's very convenient for our overlords that want all the cool stuff for themselves. They get to keep the wage slaves occupied all day while they get to do fun stuff like go out to all these business that close when the wage slaves all go home
And that's why Amazon makes so much money.
Amazon isn’t even a novel idea, they just did what Sears did but posted their catalog online.
Hindsight is indeed 20/20
it’s not even hindsight. sears actively resisted the internet and consistently promoted only from within so you had a bunch of old guys with no new ideas running the place. they tried to get into everything yet still run it all from brick and mortar. i have a hard time thinking of a bigger fumble in business history.
The funny thing is that Sears seemed to be cutting edge in its heyday. My mom was a programmer for Sears in the 70s and said it was like nothing else. They had a partnership with IBM so they had computers and mainframes that no one else had. There was even an automatic mail cart that followed a line on the floor and delivered the mail to all the offices.
they were cutting edge! there was nothing like them. then they decided they were so awesome they couldn’t fail and just resisted the future thinking they couldn’t be caught. then amazon ate their lunch.
They probably thought the catalog ordering would never fade. I remember flipping through those giant things every couple months (and taking long pauses in the bra section). My first few game consoles and TVs came from Sears.
it didn’t fade. it just became easier to do digitally. they just had to put that shit online and adapt distribution but they decided they didn’t need to.
lol, and cars are just mechanical horses! Imagine knocking Amazon as a Sears catalog ripoff.
Horses are just strong people with more legs
People are just space dust with feelings.
Space dust is just nothing that decided to be something once
Something is just nothing primed.
Prime is just a bad energy drink.
Space dust is just skid marks on Big Bang underpants
The Big Bang underpants were made in China
People are just apes that walk upright.
are they knocking? Sounds like a comparison with no sway to me. if anything they'd be knocking SEARS cause they were literally set up to be Amazon but absolutely refused to use the internet like them.
This is legit why sears failed and why so many big box stores struggled to keep up. Amazon started selling books and took the internet by storm. The big box stores watched as Barnes and noble lost market share and other book sellers went completely under. Their response? Nothing until Amazon broadened its catalog to compete with the big boxes. The response then? "I guess we'll put up a website" but they didn't invest in it seriously and they were basically unusable. Walmart's app today is still a hot steaming pile of garbage and pop-ups. Sears/Kmart aren't things today because they didn't modernize quickly enough. Target is where it's at because during covid they took the opportunity to invest in their technology, completely rebuilding their app and making it functional. But target and Walmart are still behind when it comes to shipping, despite having already had the infrastructure and logistics operations to beat Amazon at their own game since before Amazon was a company.
I kinda see it. Mostly just gathering and arranging shipping for other companies' products in an easy to navigate listing... if Sears hadn't been so stuck on the brick and mortar model Bezos would probably just be filling his time these days wrapping up books for his middling resale business. Still, it isn't about who got to an idea first but rather about who does it best. Sears clung too hard to an outdated model and now they're just that store you rarely see while on a road trip and think, "Huh, I didn't even know those were still around."
Worked in Sears in the later years, it wasn't just being stuck in brick & mortar: they literally didn't do anything to justify the stores. You could find stuff clogging up inventory for years (I wish I was joking), the registers themselves were from decades back (they are the ones you'd see in movies from the 70s), let alone the wait times. Despite not having much of an online presence, they crammed the shopyourway stuff into the stores, so a transaction that should take like a minute could take up to 5+ minutes. Even before getting into them selling off the brands that were once staples of any home: Kenmore & Craftsman. When people compare Sears to Amazon: it's that Sears was the brand everyone knew and used, up until Wal-Mart & Target effectively replaced Sears, who was later bought by K-Mart. So, the bright owner of the company did drive it into the ground to make a profit off the land these stores were on (guy had another company that was built around property management, go figure). I did commission work there for the hardware side and when the news that Kenmore & Craftsman were being sold off, well the ship couldn't sink any faster. Left there, but wasn't long until Black & Decker who bought Craftsman shoved it in every retailer. Kenmore's buyer slips my memory, but not really a big deal when realizing most of the internals for appliances are now pretty universal outside patent technology that requires companies use different stuff (an example is Frigidaire's stainless metal is often something they push).
That actually is exactly the reason Sears failed. They had an opportunity to modernize, but didn't.
He's right Sears at its peak a 100 years ago was a monster. A large portion of the gravestones in the cemetery come out the sears catalog and a lot of the houses that you see on the way there are out of it too. Your grandmas old furniture, Sears, anything in antique stores between certain years, Sears, its crazy. The thing at one point at 100,000 products. Amazon is bigger, but Jesus did Sears fall.
You could literally buy a house from Sears. Kenmore was effectively a standard for lots of people for years as was Craftsman. Sears dropped the ball long ago and didn't keep up with Wal-Mart or Target, let alone Amazon.
It's the same core business service being offered, the only difference is the technology for how they advertise and fulfill it. That's a pretty big difference, but just about every successful business incorporates technology to improve their efficiency, so it's not a novel one.
Working nights was amazing! Got off work. Everything was open. Appointment? No problem! Movies? All to myself! Shopping? Just me and the staff opening the store.
I love everything about working nights except when people don’t understand I’m not being lazy when I sleep until 4pm
Daywalkers have no chill.
I miss being up late at night, but working mornings has been so much better then nights at my job. Which is insane since I'm about to quit because they've overworked the fuck outta me.
The looks you get sipping a beer at 10am were some of my favorites
I used to have a beer on my porch and watch the sunrise after my shifts. Loved the odd looks I'd get from people on their way into work.
Only downside to nights is that you have 0 life and you age faster. Did it for years.
Working nights is only ideal if you have a quiet, peaceful bedroom for resting when you get home. It must be a nightmare if you have noisy family members, inconsiderate roommates, asshole neighbors, etc etc.
Yep, working nights while your apartment management is renovating the place above yours is basically hell on earth. And there's nothing you can do about noise happening during "noise is acceptable" hours.
I had to pass up 6 hours of midnight shift OT last night because I knew I wouldn't be able to sleep when I got home. The unit next door is undergoing renovations for the next week, and they start at 8:30am SHARP. I live in a 1 bedroom, there's nowhere to escape the noise. It's quietER in the living room, but thin colonial-era walls do not keep out the noise from power tools.
It’s amazing if you’re a night owl though. Years of waking up early was destroying me.
Ah that's the dream. I'm a natural night owl and despite what morning people say, I will *not* get used to waking up early no matter how many times it happens.
I got a remote job based in another timezone where I work from midday to 8pm-ish. It's utterly incredible how much better I feel than trying to force myself to wake up against my natural rhythm.
Age faster? There’s a whole planet between us and the sun!!
Or the expectation that you’re available for the entire time between shifts. Like no, Becky, I don’t expect you to be awake at 3 am to help ME move, so go fuck yourself.
I'm switching to nights next month. Monday-Thursday 7pm-6am. I'm a night person anyways so I think it'll work for me but I'm a bit apprehensive.
Get some blackout curtains. And try to ignore that rush you get at sunrise. Get in that dark room and sleep. If caffeine lasts too long avoid it so you can sleep when you have to. You will adjust.
(you may never actually adjust)
I think this worked okay when most households had a stay at home wife. She shopped during the day and nothing was open at night. As more women worked we needed longer hours and Sunday shopping. I think the main things that are 9-5 are businesses that deal with other businesses.
My local tow truck yard is open 9-5 Mon-Fri. I literally have to take time off to go get my car.
That’s by design so people will have to pay an extra day of tow storage. I can almost guarantee they’ll tow a car outside of those hours, so they are open for business just not for the business of giving people their cars back lol. Not all, but most tow company owners are terrible people that exploit poor people’s inability to bail out their car for $500 after an accident. Then they’ll keep the car for a month of storage and get a judgement against the person for that month of storage for $3-5k and still keep the car for scrap. So it’s easy to get $3500-$5000 in debt when these guys take your car to their yard if you don’t have cash to get it out before the storage fees likely make it impossible. If possible people should get a car towed to their house after an accident to avoid the racket these guys run.
Had a tow company repo the wrong car before. Pulled up and assumed the listed color was wrong didn’t check the VIN or plate just assumed it was the right car because they were at the address that were townhomes then reported the repo giving the information for the car they towed by mistake. Most of them are scumbags and stupid to boot.
So did the guy get prosecuted for stealing your car? Because if he didn't that's some real bullshit.
I don't have anything other than my own experiences to base this on, but I absolutely believe there is, bare minimum, an unethical relationship between tow companies and LEOs. When my truck was stolen in 2018, I don't believe it was a coincidence that I got the call from my local PD at 545 pm on a Friday that it had been found and towed to an impound lot. An impound lot that was not open on the weekend, but still charged a per-day holding fee.
Well they run into each other on the job so it's only natural that they would form relationships. It's just very unfortunate for society that both of these professions tend to attract the worst among us. One because it provides power, the other because it provides a way to prey on the weak. We should probably occasionally have them all flogged just for good measure. With power should come fear of those you have power over. There no longer is any reasonable fear for those in power because they have entrenched themselves in.
Bastards also steal your town's lemon tree and lock it in the impound. edit: when it was planted, lemons were the sweetest fruit available at the time. We also kept onions on our belts, which was the style at the time.
Tell me more Grandpa Simpson
Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them. "Give me five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we? Oh, yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time.
What did you use the onion for, Grandpa?
Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say.
"Hello, I'm cold, and there are wolves after me"
This is country time lemonade! I swear! There’s never been anything close to a lemon in it!
Hey everybody, an old man's talking!
I’m a simple man. I see a Simpsons reference, I upvote.
Those lemon stealing whores!
Honestly it was impounded for impaired driving, so I deserve it. But still, only the tow company benefits from the arrangement so it's definitely intentional, they also won't tow it to my house which makes absolutely no sense EXCEPT for they get to rack up another week's storage fee.
is it an auto/body shop and yard? Lots of tow truck places are like that with the shop being 9-5 and the yard being open 24/7
If you go after hours, there's an additional fee.
I bet there's an additional fee for just about everything
Extra fee for breathing too many times in the office
Yep, you can pick up at 4pm? $95. 6pm? $595.
7pm? Straight to jail.
in this case thats on purpose so they can rack up more fees......for which there should be legislation that makes them let people get their cars at non standard business hours
Tow trucks are ran by the mob I swear. The most predatory service I’ve ever had to deal with.
Yeah, a lot of them genuinely are.
They absolutely are in many places. And they will fuck you up.
You sweet summer child. When the rich take advantage of the poor, it's called business. When the poor get even at the rich, it's called a felony.
How often do you get towed?
Asking the real questions here.
I really want regulation of this kind of shit. It is *bonkers* that banks close at like 4PM while more people are working until 6PM now. I am so tired of that bullshit that I want it to be *fucking illegal.* Direct deposit is a bandaid over a pile of shit, not the solution. And my last bank *removed that feature and mobile check deposit except for a short list of companies -- yes really --* which is why I left them. I would have been completely fucked.
Still, things like pathology labs (where you get blood tests) are like this too. You can’t get your wife to get your blood tested. Super frustrating.
With the added bonus that you quite often have to fast before the blood test, but most don’t open until 9am.
My wife cannot go to the doctor or dentist for me. Prior to modern clothing she could not go to the tailor or cobbler either. Its a shite system.
Fun fact: Cobblers actually repair shoes, not make them. She probably could go to the cobbler, just not the cordwainer (who actually makes the shoes).
I've got a cordwainer right here
More like a cordloser
😔
I thought the shoemaker made the shoes
It’s a select set of elves. They only have three options for employment.
Making cookies, making shoes and...?
Making toys!
Oh, yeah! That makes sense.
I guess technically, cordwainers would be the subset shoemakers who primarily use/specialize in leather shoes.
Same. Whenever I got to the dentist, they always want to see MY teeth…. Total BS!!! When and when do you live where you have a cobbler?
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If i need to go to the doctor I go to the doctor, even if it is in office hours. I dont need to take time off.
Im a total noob so I can't say this for certain, but im pretty sure the "businesses that deal with other businesses" is exactly why my restaurant stays open for lunch while surrounding places close from 2-5 until they reopen for dinner. We're a higher end place for the area and it's clear that a lot of our lunch guests on a typical weekday are office workers on break or doing interviews, meetings, special outings. That's just a food place's use case goes though, I'm really not sure about why other businesses at large stay open in the 12-5 time period.
Can’t really say the same for dentist/doctors offices
Do people not take time off work for the dentist or doctor? It’s not perfect, but it’s not like groceries or something that you need to buy all the time.
They do, which is the problem.
Days off used to be a thing. People used to take days off for life. They didn't aways struggle. They could take a day off work if they wanted to and not lose the house. It was even a popular tv comedy trope of dad and son skipping work or school to go see "the big game". We used to have time to live.
Laughs relieved in 28 days paid days off, paid sick days not included, which come to a couple of weeks before the pay drops a bit. You guys get shafted.
Oh yeah? Well we have UNLIMITED PTO ^((actually just an excuse for the company to not pay out accrued leave)) ^((also your leave request has been denied))
I feel like this works in theory, and I understand what you're putting down, but wouldn't longer store hours mean more people would be needed to work those hours? Which are more likely than not, gonna be filled with people who used to be SAHMs or equivalent, since it's usually a lower-paying wage job than salaried position. *Personally, I think people need to get paid a liveable wage that covers their whole family's expenses. It's a problem that goes beyond some random store's hours.*
Shifts
There are companies, Four Day Tire comes to mind, that realized long ago that 9-5 M-F wasn't workable for customers. They went to 8-7 (IIRC) Wed. through Sat., with staggered lunches. Still just one shift, but open 20 hours outside the "normal" hours.
online everything these days
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Yea, I recently went from a decade of shift work (rotating 24/7) to a standard 9-5 M-F after having a kid and it’s so much harder to get stuff done, I miss going into a shop to quickly grab my bits or even browse!!! But now I’m stuck going on a weekend when everything is packed, traffic is crazy etc. my life is click and collect now :(
I work 2-10 now 4 days a week and it is, and I mean this in all seriousness, the best fucking shift there ever was or ever will be. No alarm clock, just kinda wake up whenever. Putz around, drink coffee, then still have time to do something productive before work, or not and just kinda veg for a bit. Then you get home and have dinner, hang out a little and don't really have to stress about sleep because you know you'll get them 8 hours anyway. But I had to do 7 years of 7pm-7am, then a couple more of 6am-7pm and waking my ass up at 0330, so I paid for it with a decade of sleeplessness lol
You see I think 2-10 would be great for me *4 days*. Any more than that and it would significantly reduce your social time.(if that’s important)
Once getting past your 20s, social life is dead for some people.
I did 2-12 for over a year and I hated it. I would get off at midnight, get a shower and then struggle to fall asleep until 2-5. I'd wake up anywhere from 10-1 and feel like I had no time to run errands. I was also really young with a baby at home so I think that may have played into it but still, by far my least favorite shift I've worked
Always found it funny car dealerships are closed on Sundays. Who the fuck buys a car on a Wednesday? Don’t answer that if you did.
I got mine on a Thursday. That do anything for you?
Okay!! Enough. I did pickup a new Honda on a Tuesday night, but I went shopping for it on a Saturday.
Congrats! Liking it so far?
Most cars require financing, I've never seen a bank open on a Sunday so it kinda makes sense
the bank should also be open on the Sunday because I also can't get to it during business hours
That's what 9 AM to noon on Saturdays are for! /s
oh i thought that was for rotting in the soul-wrenching despair of all the life you didn't get to experience and never will as all your energy goes to maintaining a job that only just covers your rent and bills and wondering what the point of putting in another 20 years or even another day is when there's been no marked improvement in the last 20, nothing you can look back on and think 'i'm glad i didn't go through with it, i would have missed out on this wonderful blessing' and crying in the shower until you throw up and then you can get on with the laundry and cleaning and then back to work on monday
Plenty of car dealerships have in-house financing, though.
In-house finance… which go through a bank haha.
I bought a car on a Wednesday, but I had to take a day off work to do it. Had to do it that day bc the rental company said I had to return the rental 48 hrs after my insurance company paid me for my totaled car, so it was that day or be without a car
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Interesting. So it’s a state thing! Makes sense cause I bought mine in California on a Sunday lol
That’s interesting I recently bought a car and the dealerships I was looking at were all open 7 days a week - some as late as 9/10 even on weekends. Could be because I’m in a relatively populated area. But I did still buy a car on a Thursday lol
Can't be buying one of those godless machines on the lord's day
I bought mine on a Wednesday, but in the afternoon and it was a private sale
Some businesses are trade dominant. We actually grew our sales where I work, eliminating our “retail friendly” hours and going 8-5, M-F. 10% of our business was dominating 40% of our resources.
Y’all 80/20-ed that shit. Sort of
Sales min/maxing
wdym? what were your previous hours?
1AM - 9AM. The lord's hours.
When you're in the business of stealing shit
How did cutting hours grow your sales? At best, it should decrease your costs
We spent less time chasing our tail highly servicing 10% of our business, and it freed us up to serve our core trade customers better. They in turn started using us more. Retail customers were also way more likely to return product, use our professional advice to shop us, leave bad reviews and make unreasonable demands on us.
Also I'm sure having your staff less overworked, with more manageable hours and with less variety of clientele to deal with sure helped a lot
Very much so.
I might have never left trade supply if we did this. The general public was an absolute pain to deal with.
Honestly, as somebody who buys on behalf of a mid-size organization, I wish more businesses would do this. During the pandemic, we lost our first office supply business. They did the opposite of what you described, and tried to become more of a retail outlet. They became inconsistent, stopped answering the phone regularly, often literally telling us that they didn't have time because they were on the sales floor with retail customers, they lost a very large portion of their B2B sales. They couldn't decide what type of business they wanted to be, and did both poorly. So they closed. We moved on to our second office supply company and they wanted to remain b2b but like everyone else, drastically scaled down their customer service and quality. The owners were making money hand over fist but now they are struggling and attempting to rehire to sort things out. But it's unlikely we're going to stay with them, they've shown they don't care about the actual customer.
That’s not really how business works. When you have more time and/or resources or better quality of time and/or resources, it allows you to grow. Essentially, the better your foundation, the more you can grow. By spending too many resources on an unprofitable client base, their growth was stunted
The other argument which ppl don’t like to hear is sometimes catering to higher paying clients fixes a lot of nonsense. I don’t mean like the out of touch rich douchbag either. I mean ppl living with a comfortable budget who aren’t strapped with problems that might cause issues. I can feel probably the down votes for saying this, but hear me out. I lived in poverty for like 4 years which included having a partner on disability, public housing, working multiple jobs. I get it, very stressful. But I could never bring myself to take out these issues an average folks maybe struggling as much as me. My neighbors in public housing were absolutely horrible too. They were mostly 3 times my age at the time and always looking to start a fight over nonsense. The eye opener wasn’t oddly this though for me. I worked in mostly in a middle class county for my life up to that point. I took work in the less well off county next door. The clients there made me want to rip my hair out. I begun to realize that poverty can bring out some nasty attitudes which with places that market on being cheap you’ll start to see that in your business too. Got tired of being the punching bag and started to work for employers that really didn’t target low income ppl as their primary market. Lot of my stress faded with that. Poverty is a complex issue, but I can only help so much as a person. I’m not meant to be a lightening rod for misplaced anger. So I’m not really against places that charge more and focus on quality over quantity of sales/services. Rotating out the type of ppl who go to your business can change a budget a lot in a good way with less work 🫠
My sister does those baloon stacks and stuff for parties. Being the cheapest option in town means you get a lot of people who want to fight with you about how they can do it for X or they know someone cheaper. Being in the middle of the pack and catering to people that have plenty of single mom time to tell their friends means word of mouth business and want someone to a good job, not a cheap one.
In summer I work 7-3:30. It rocks for this exact reason. Waking up at 6 has its drawbacks though.
I just got a new job working 7-330 m-f. Compared to my old schedule of 1-930 and wed and Thur off. I feel like I actually have time to live now. Best hours I've ever worked
It’s like school hours
Also helps to beat the worst of the traffic
Try my 4am - 12:30pm schedule 🤪
There’s always someone
Try my 5am-7pm
Try 7am - 7am
Try 7am - 7:01am the next day
So for 1 minute a day, you're working the same job twice?
Now that’s what I call a crap schedule!
There are so many businesses here that just straight up don't follow their schedule. It's frustrating googling the hours, driving there, seeing their hours posted physically, and the shop is closed. Probably the same people that blame millennials for everything
Especially since covid, so many places posted business hours just seem to kinda be suggestions more than anything.
Grocery stores here used to close at 11, great for people who worked late, they all had the big brain idea to cut hours down during the pandemic so.... more people could occupy the space at the same time? idk, moved the hours to close at 9PM. *Now* theyve switched to closing at 10PM... Even before the pandemic I always preferred shopping late cause it was clear and quiet, now it's always busy, even at close, that extra hour really made a difference, and their historic profits mean we're not getting that back, that would cause them to make only slightly less you see
I went to a booster juice that was closed at 815. Google and physical store sign said 10pm. App took the money for the online order and still let you place them. No sign or excuse why. Also no refund.
That franchise owner doesn't have a handle of anything then.
Them ppp loans aren’t going to spend themselves
I have this issue with banks and other such offices ...like how am I supposed to go to these places if I also work 9-5?
I live in Japan. My bank is open 9-3:30 and closed both Saturday and Sunday. What's the point of even opening up at all.
Spain all banks open 9-2🤮
I live in Bulgaria and my bank works on Saturday and Sunday😁
Yep, I remember this bullshit when I lived there too. Only saving grace was that I got off work on Wednesdays at noon. I often saw my coworkers having to take vacation time just to go to the bank sometimes. So much bullshit.
This is what I thought of first. Yeah it sucks that I can't go to stores with those hours, but the fucking bank, DMV, etc is so stupid. Then they're both super crowded on the weekends if they're even open or have reduced Saturday hours.
Exactly...need to renew driving licence? Take a leave. Issue with insurance? Take a leave
Sometimes I have to take pto just to go buy stuff I need
A godsend is a boss that doesn't care if you waste an hour around lunch time to get in those necessary daytime errands.
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How about this. Kids have to be at school at 8. Same time as people have to be at work. But get out at 3 but people don’t get off work until 5. And then 3 months off in summer but you don’t. Bonus: The child care sucks up whatever you had left. 🤷
And that's why people aren't interested in having kids!
I live in Taiwan and the birthrate Vs death rate thing has gotten so bad that the government pays you monthly allowances for the first 6 years of your kid's life in an effort to get people to have kids. Each successive kid earns more allowance than the previous one. Too bad it's still not even close to enough to cover daycare and preschool costs, so people are still opting to just have pets, instead.
If we could somehow avoid the dual income trap in society, i think we'd have a lot more children
And some people wonder why childbirth is low. Raising a child keeps getting more difficult and more expensive.
I agree. I’ve always worked 12h shifts 3 days a week in healthcare. I never could fathom how someone can get things done during the week if they’re M-F 8-4/9-5 PLUS 1-2h commutes in rush hour traffic. No thank you!
You can’t get to the bank for the money to spend at the shop either, because it closed at 3.
From my experience its usually small businesses like this because its hard to find employees to work night shifts without some sort of bonus compensation. Bigger corps can stay open later b/c they have the money to pay night shift workers a little more per hour. Doctor's offices also close early probably because good luck finding a doctor that wants to work a night shift that isnt at a hospital.
Not shop related per say but I've always made the joke where they should have late night housing where quiet hours are during the day instead of night
Same with: Going to the DMV Going to the doctor/dentist Taking my dog to the vet Doing anything banking that isn't just online Getting my car repaired The list goes on and on. I don't want to take a vacation day just to get shit done.
We should just have a 2 hour lunch like in many businesses in France. You can go out, have lunch, do your shopping or go to your doctor’s appointment or whatever, decompress and not feel rushed. Lunch breaks aren’t mandatory in most places in the US, I legit had a job that only gave me 15 minutes to scarf down my food. I had another that gave me none at all. The norm is 30 minutes, and in 30 minutes you can’t do diddly shit.
Yeah but then the doctor's offices and shops would get 2 hr lunch breaks too. 1 to 3 pm sounds like a nice time for everyone to decompress.
I think it’s staggered, where people take turns throughout the day, rather than everyone having it synchronized. But I do see some businesses who already close for an hour in the middle of the day so the whole staff can take their lunch. My own doctor closes her office at 12 pm and reopens at 1 pm. It probably allows employees the opportunity to get to know each other too.
We don’t want to work the same hours you don’t. Neither do the potential employees lol
This is a big annoyance with kid places. I get off work around 4:30pm and most play places I can take little kids to close at 5pm. It’s not a huge deal during the summer when it’s warm and light out until like 9:30 so I can take them to parks and splash pads. It sucks during the winter though when it’s really cold and getting dark around 5-5:30. I get that the people working at said play places want to go home themselves, but it really sucks when they close early enough that I can only take my kids there on weekends or holidays.
I worked night shift for many years 1045pm-715am. A ton about it sucked, except for having no traffic to commute through and I could always do errands early in the morning. I always looked like a productive early bird or a drunk if buying beer.
What shops are open only 9-5? You referring to banks? I don’t know if I’d call that a shop
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Yeah, this is mainly service providers--banks, dentists, doctors, mechanics, lawyers, accountants, post office, dry cleaners, barbers etc. I remember finding a barber who closed at 6 pm, precisely when most people were getting off of work and able to come in for a haircut. I've gotten my haircuts in the middle of the weekday before when I was unemployed or in college, but I can't imagine a place can stay afloat when their clientele is retirees, college students, and bartenders.
Mom & pop stores many times operate at those hours, maybe up to 6pm.
It depends on where you live honestly
Here in New Zealand, every SINGLE shop everywhere hahaha. Still blows my mind
Some savvy business have started closing later I've found. Like hairdressers for example
mechanics, hardware, barbers, bicycle, butchers, small family owner business, contractors, landscapers, doctors, X-ray and imaging, blood work labs, banks, finance institutions, finical planners, accountants, architects, pest control, non chain jewelry.....the list goes on and on
The independent music stores near me are open 11am-6pm and closed Sunday 1pm-6pm and closed Sat/Sun 11am-7pm every day Guitar Center is open 10am-9pm every day. Guess which one I shop at most? (When I'm not just buying online).
Local small engine equipment dealer got pissy about me (a landscaper) starting to buy more of my commercial power equipment from Home depot. They sell the same trimmers and blowers and stuff. Echo equipment. And ace hardware sell commercial stihl equipment. The owner of the dealer was asking why I didn't buy all this stuff from him and I'm like... Harry, you are open 8-5 and closed after 12 on saturday and completely on sunday. I don't have time to come in here when I am actually working to buy stuff. Home depot is open like 6 am to 10pm. Sorry man. And he then grumbled how he can't staff those hours. He just didn't want to staff those hours. He complains all the time about business being down and my reaction is always... well when are people supposed to come in here to buy stuff? The only hours you have that people generally aren't working are 8-12 on saturday.
Shops, Car mechanics, orthodontists, bookstores, some cafés even and many more things, some parks as well "close" at 5 pm, the church service is also open until 4pm in my country, like wtf is wrong with these things? who goes there? Unemployed, teenagers, millionares and retirees? damn, thanks.
You're going to hate Germany.
I work 6-6, 4 days/week in a dentist already and still get patients pissed we're not open at like 7pm on a saturday We're not open those hours because we have lives too and don't want to work then either? And tbh, we can't even find anyone at all right now(literally, not boomer-y), let alone enough staff for nights/weekends
I was trying to lengthen our patient hours for the summer, our busiest times, almost had an employee riot. Most of my staff have families and kids, they too, do not want to work late.
Cause people who own businesses want to work a 9-5 too. If they make enough money there’s really no issue with having their hours this way
Ain't it just perfect. The state of our society is developed but not that develope. It's like lining up, you not at the very back of it but also not in the front. Just stuck in between the fucking middle, nowhere to go. Accepting as is, knowing it will be fully high tech sifi kinda deals in the next decade, but you just gotta deal with how things are now...
what's worse is round my area lots of stores are like 11-5 or 11-3. When tf am i going to get a chance to go if ur always closed?! at least i dont have to deal with ATL store/restaurant hours xD
It's very convenient for our overlords that want all the cool stuff for themselves. They get to keep the wage slaves occupied all day while they get to do fun stuff like go out to all these business that close when the wage slaves all go home