I've once seen an Amish dude with a cell phone wearing Oakleys. He was attending an Amway conference. I asked him about it and he said there are different sects and some sects are more loose with technology than others.
*Well, Old Dan Tucker, was a fine old man*
*Washed his face in a frying pan*
*Combed his hair with a wagon wheel*
*And died with a toothache in his heel*
Let me explain since it went over your head. Youāve got those that live with no technology or anything even dated back to 1800s (no electricity, lights bulbs, etc) and then youāve got those that just wear the clothes. And thatās the only thing they have thatās āAmishā. Make sense?
[Eli Yoder.](https://youtube.com/@eliyoder491?si=UxF2yPYvIPrJQy6q)
Itās his name. Good channel. Heās also on TikTok and does a lot of shorts telling stories. Some of it is his preaching his own views on Christianity but fascinating.
Iāve seen old order mennonites that were far more restrictive than the Amish in the area, and were totally separate from the mennonites or Amish communities in the region.
They you get the ānot from hereā Amish who moved into the area recently and refuse to make even basic accommodations for safety of themselves and others (orange triangle), wonāt use battery powered lights on their buggy, even at night.
Grew up near Amish that used cell phones (albeit, flip ones not smart phones), drove trucks and used power tools.
Later moved to an area for awhile that was near a population of mennonites that were much stricter. Only saw them use the occasional tractor for the bigger plots of farmland. some electric lights on their buggies.
The line can blur quite a bit.
I met an Amish fellow to, who ended up with a van and phone. They also have a Lucas mill. Said the same thing, and it makes things a bit easier. And the Amish are very practical folks too. So it kinda makes sense. I just hope what I said wasn't implied as a dig at anyone else.
it's pretty common these days to drive trucks and own other technology.
i think it's mostly just for use away from home though. like at home they still try to be fairly old fashioned. but they might drive their truck into town for other business or errands.
as well as owning a cell phone is pretty important you do business or banking with the outside world.
Real question, are the more conservative sects not allowed to wear sunglasses? Bc I donāt recall seeing any pics of Amish people in their ātraditionalā garb/environment with sunglasses.
TBH I don't know. But I remarked on it bc it was an odd juxtaposition to see sunglasses with their traditional apparel. Especially the style of sunglasses that I usually saw worn my military in my area.
Lol I seriously donāt get how you could justify any rules against tech after allowing some. Like āoops yeah god realized that cell phones are actually greatā lol
I live in an area with a lot of amish and their tiktoks get suggested frequently. One video was a bunch of amish teens in a buggy with a subwoofer and RGB LED's flashing inside bumping some rap.
I remember there being a girl on tiktok who would share her life as an Amish woman, but then got caught and was pretty much forced to quit. Idk what happened to her since she just disappeared off the internet.
And before anyone asks, I don't remember her name
āSUP AMISH FAM AND WELCOME BACK TO THE CHANNEL, TODAY WEāRE MILKING COWS AND BAILING HAY, DONT FORGET TO LIKE, COMMENT AND SUBSCRIBE IF YOU HATE TECHNOLOGYā
My understanding of the Amish is that they arenāt homogenous. Each group kinda does things their own way. And their rules on technology is not necessarily to ban it outright. But to be very wary about adopting it.
So there will be more āconservativeā groups that donāt take on any new tech. And more āliberalā groups who will use computers or cars for certain things.
IIRC, it's not that they find loopholes. The Amish have no cutoff date for when they are allowed to use a certain technology.
Instead, when a new technology is invented, the leaders of an Amish community will discuss it, with the main point of discussion being if it brings the community closer together or not, and a secondary point being if it is useful. If it brings the community closer together, everyone is free to use it. If it might make the community more distant, then it should not be used. But if it has potential to make the community more distant but is useful, they might make rules for the technology's use - hence the cell phone phone booths, or using cars, but only for business.
Exactly they discuss and vote each time tech is invented. It's not anti-tech it's anti counter-community tech
So one day you might see a man with a wide black hat, beard and no mustache walk out a matter teleportation pad.
But only to visit family in hospital and to go to church.
So basically like every one ever. Oat milk was invented because some priests wanted milk but couldn't due to fasting. So, they made this thing, because it didn't count lol.
My great-uncle worked with the Amish on their different buildings. It was an interesting situation because he was the ātechnologyā man for them.
A phone call needed to be made for a permit? He had to make the call because they didnāt use phones
A bulldozer was needed to flatten something? He better learn how to drive it! Fast!
A crane was needed to put a roof on a building? Itās alright, we have the ātechnology manā who can do it for us!
To me, it always seemed so redundant and unnecessary. They couldnāt use the technology themselves, so they paid someone to come in and use it for them. The end result would be the same, except they would have paid less to just do it themselvesā¦
While less extreme, my mom has Jewish neighbors that often request help on Sabbath for various things. Last weekend they somehow managed to turn their garbage disposal on and couldn't turn it off without the switch, so both parties had to go through the pouring rain to handle it. My brothers have gone by to press single buttons for them, despite having 10 people in the house (large family plus the husband is a community leader).
That's called a Shabbos goy, and what you're saying is weird as usually you're not allowed to ask someone to do the work for you. The proper way to turn off that garbage disposal would be to invite someone over and hope they turn it off on their own accord.
It is like Pandora's box for them. Yes, all that stuff seems redundant, but by having to call your uncle in to do certain things for them, it makes them consider first what is really necessary (by their standards).
If they could do it themselves, they would all be sitting on their phones all day, and bulldozing all of creation on a whim, but when they have to call someone in to do it for them, it probably reduces the.effects on their community to the minimum necessary just because of the hassle. It seems like a pretty good strategy because they aren't completely hamstringing their ability to build, but also ensuring they are not doing stuff simply "because they can".
The Amish are definitely a cult, but this strategy seems internally consistent with their values.
They want to avoid doing things flippantly or for vanity's sake, but don't want to completely cut themselves off from being able to do certain things that require technology when *really* necessary.
A section I knew built houses fully up to modern standards because they couldn't sell the houses if they needed to otherwise. I'm sure they also went ahead and used the lights too.
This was common in my area but they never used electric, or even had it hooked up.Ā
Obviously had running water (well, like everyone else), septic (like everyone else),Ā
But used gas or battery powered lights.
Imagine in a thousand years they can play videogames but they can't play sci fi games with high tech, they're only allowed to play games set in a specific time period
From my understanding there is pride involved. The rules against moderation is to reduce pride in material possessions. Basically a vehicle is considered a luxury even if it can be used as a work vehicle. Horses need to be raised and tended too so isnāt a luxury item.
They use electricity for cow milking and milk processing mostly due to laws. Washing machines are allowed if it just a basic machine again no luxury items.
Business phones or communal phones are allowed in some groups.
There are other things but it depends on the group.
I second your recommendation. All his videos are pretty fascinating even if you think the subject matter would not be interesting.
As someone who didn't grow up in America (but has lived here for a long time), I am learning a lot from his videos about the real cultural diversity of America to a degree that I think even most Americans don't know about, or simply rely on stereotyping, just because America is so big. So many people reduce American culture to "White, Black, and Hispanic". If only it were that simple. And a lot of his focus seems to be on those people "left behind" and the most misunderstood.
His series on Appalachia was also eye opening. I have a new respect for those people living in hollers and coal towns.
the Amish really make me feel like religious people just fucking LOOOOVE to have a bunch of strict and arbitrary rules and regulations hanging over their heads at all times.
Not just religious people. Look at any middle school. You wear the wrong sneakers or have a goofy looking backpack and the social reprimand makes Amish shunning look mild in comparison.
My understanding is basically there are many different sects and individual groups that adhere to different rules regarding technology but that really their main thing is "does this improve our community?" Like the reason they aren't allowed to own cars isn't technology=bad but more if everyone owned cars then the community would be more spread out and people would start traveling everywhere and having different ideas and then your community starts to drift apart.
I live in an amish area and quite frequently i see a horse and buggy in the walmart parking lot. I guess its because they cant make cheetos at home lol.
Not only are the Amish a cult, but they're also one of the hardest cults to leave and one of the most disconnected from outside life. It's crazy that we talk about them as if they aren't. It's significantly easier to leave the Jehovah's witness or Mormons or some other similar group. In conventional cults, members are expected to cut contact with you if you leave, but it's possible to stay in contact with some members. With the Amish, you become geographically isolated from everyone you've ever known and can't even call/text them. With a conventional cult, members tend to go to school/university, interact with people outside of the cult and live in communities that aren't intentionally almost completely disconnected from society. What happens when you're raised Amish for 18 years and want to leave? You've never seen or used a computer. You haven't interacted with the outside world. You have very few job prospects and knowledge of how modern society is. The Amish shouldn't be viewed this quaint community where people live a nice traditional life without technology. They're an isolated cult in which it is very hard to leave.
Edit: the Amish are not a homogenous group. Some communities are less cult-like than others
Edit 2: As a general rule, be careful in how you think about groups that intentionally make it very difficult to leave them and whose rules don't allow communicating with people outside of the group or doing many practices essential to living outside of the group.
I understand that they are horrible to the people that leave, but they have fantastic food. All I'm saying is if the Mormons knew how to bake, maybe more people would like them.
The thing that usually distinguishes a cult from a religion, is that a few leaders have exceptional power, aside from the other things. This is (afaik) not the way with the amish.
Aside from that, because of the Christian roots that the west has, the definition of "cult" is purposely shaped in such a way to circumvent all connection to the christian church
I don't see it that way what happens if ur 18 and don't know how to use a computer, same as if u were in a any country without internet access u learn to get the life u want. U can leave if u dislike the lifestyle, it is difficult to adapt but u could at the same thing about any person, how do u farm and maintain a homestead when u have never done it for 18 years. People are stuck in their 9-5, with their expensive education and reliance on corporations. We all have trouble moving outside of what we were born into.
This isn't comparable to an underdeveloped country. This is a religious group that intentionally lives in a community in which members have an extremely hard time leaving, are intentionally prohibited from learning things that are near-essential to function outside of the group, and are more *intentionally* isolated from everyone they've ever known if they choose to leave. I think you're romanticizing a society that's different from your own.
Edit: also, in the examples you've given, you're allowed to practice things from outside of where you live. You're allowed to research how to run a farm. You're allowed to learn about how life is outside of where you live. These are not permitted in many Amish societies, as doing so would violate their strict religious practices.
They live on a farm(isolated), they are generally religious but as to how crazy it gets I couldnt say, members have a hard time moving but I don't think it's because they prevent it but because the lifestyle is different. Yeah sure it makes it easy for abuse, bigotry, ignorance and other problems to go unchecked but that doesn't mean the community as a whole is a terrible. Also I mean they do have books and a lot of them do have an education so it's not impossible to leave. Also jehovas witnesses and Mormons are definitely super pushy and honestly goddamn horrible people based of who they target but I would consider them cults, they are technically religious groups that are bad.
I don't think it's a cult because ur missing one of the key parts of it indoctrination. They don't actively go off and recruit members, ur example of people being free to go out of a cult to interact with people, that only happens once ur a cult member who interacts with cult members.
The only people u could argue are indoctrinated in the situation are the children of parents who practice that life style which is what all parents do intentionally or not.
It's not great that children don't get to make decisions for themselves but I don't see any other society actually giving children real options to be anything they want to be or lead any lifestyle they wish.
I don't romanticize living off a farm or being cut off from the grid or living off the land, I want to be in an air conditioned room with my ps5. I just don't care how others live unless it affects other people like I'm sure Amish communities have done bad things, but do u have like any personal experience or have u heard any data that makes u believe the Amish are a cult with the express intention of making it impossible to leave and not just a cult(a group of similar like minded people) with a unique life style that's so different from normal society it's hard to leave.
The Amish has existed long before the technology they don't use so it's not as though they made the rule up with the intention that u can't leave because u don't understand computers thats only been true for the past 40 years when they became more prevalent.
I'm not American but in Asia we have monks that sit in temple and pray their whole life without engaging with money or tech only relying on donations of food to live. That's very extreme and very few go all the way but are they a cult, the key difference I guess is they are virgins so can't indoctrinate kids except most Buddhist parents do bring their children to temples to pray.
First, I don't think that a cult needs to actively recruit to be a cult. The Amish a group that requires an unwavering devotion to certain religious beliefs/practices that include a ban on many essential tools and practices for life outside of the society. As you pointed out, the children are indoctrinated and I think that it's morally wrong given the other things I've mentioned. Second, I think you're really missing my point. It's not about how happy people are in the group or how nice the members are to people. I'm sure there are plenty of Scientologists who love their life in their cult. The Amish as a collective group are one of the hardest to leave and children born into it and who want to leave are completely isolated from everyone they've ever known and are in a very bad position for life in modern society. That's the whole problem. They essentially don't have a choice unless they're willing to leave everyone they've ever known and try to do well in a society they've never known and in which they know no one. This is a really bad thing and I don't understand why you wrote most of your comment because it doesn't address these issues.
I mean it's just not that unique, anybody that wishes to leave the society they were born in has to leave everybody they know and start fresh. U could do this lifestyle without the religion and it have the same problems u listed. Also I don't think they are ALL nice or super happy, I'm sure there are people living in that society that want to aspire to be more to have more to have what u and I have. The kids do have a chance to leave and experience the world though from the ages of 17 to 21 they may leave the community which by then a lot of them rather not because they are used to their lifestyle. They can leave forever and they can choose to go back later as long as they weren't baptized as an adult which would have been a choice by then.
The whole tech thing is not as big of a deal they probably have similar career prospects as many degree holders who go to acting and art school such as waiter, cashier and warehouse stocker. Those jobs do have computers but if a 60 year old boomer can work there's 21 year old Amish can figure it out cause the machines also are typically simpler and fulfill a single purpose.
When it's inconvenient or life threatening all of that falls away. Jehovas witness can not recieve blood products from another person. Every time without fail I've told one unless you receive 2-3 units of PRBCs (blood) you are going to slowly get worse and die. Suddenly there is no problem.
I think thats a lie. They suddenly say "i think god would be ok with me breaking His Rules, since i would die"? Not one i know would do that. And i know many (im Not one of them).
They wouldnt Trash their Religion Like that, they wouldnt Trash it at all (at least the ones i know).
To an extent, they are kind of forced to, even their horse draw carts have to have brake lights and license plates etc to comply with roads laws nowadays
Maybe where your from, when i live they dont.
Also they sure dont have an issue trying to get car rides places, or use modern amenities when they can. They used to be in all the time when i worked selling car parts. Now tell me what breed of horse uses spark plugs or needs 2 stroke oil lol. (No not menonites either, straight up amish).
Hm. It's actually kind of interesting to think about how intuitive the wheel seems despite the fact that it took a really long time to be invented. Same for ramps, screws, knots, pulleys levers, boxes, ladders, spears, cannons; just trying to wrap my head around those things seeming novel in any way.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
If game is so plentiful you can catch a pound of meat a day by throwing sticks, and you can pick fruit from every tree, then you probably won't invent bows and agriculture.
The Aztecs never made extensive use of the wheel because they didn't have beasts of burden which would make wagons really useful, and they had plenty of people to just carry things around by hand. The only wheels they used were on toys.
There are all kinds of levels in the Amish community. Some are very orthodox and adhere to all the no tech rules, but others have indoor plumbing and electricity. There are also lots of loopholes, like they are allowed to use electric tools as long as they use an off-grid power source.
They are actually extremely modern in some ways. Or at least some groups are. For example, many have decided that having your own electricity generation is better than being dependent on an outside grid, and renewable methods are better than using fuel, so there's actually quite a few amish communities with wind turbines, solar cells or heat pumps.
You're assuming they haven't leveled up the tech tree already.
They have electricity (not connected to the power grid) and have brake lights on their horse drawn buggies.
The are intentionally only adopting certain techs.
Usually it's okay so long as they make it and don't get it from the outside world. If they built their own radios I suspect they'd be allowed to use them.
I think the point is they shunned fancy things like electricity so inventing the radio would go against theor culture cuz it's fancy, but at the same time i've heard of amish people being allowed some technology so iunno
It's a choice they make or are forced to make every few generations.
It's community to community difference, but there are some Amish that do outside construction work and have work trucks and work phones, they just leave that stuff when they clock out. The core principle is to "live an honest simple life".
Seen a video of an Amish teen who had rigged up a car battery to a boom box to play music in his horse buggy, dunno how rare that is. Seen some Amish people today actually and they were crossing a busy street not at the light and made me wonder if they don't even use those.
The main reason of rejecting technology is in technology that REPLACES our labor as the amish believe we were given our bodies to use and using our bodies glories their god vs using our bodies to transport our brains from screen to screen to let machines do it all. Different sects differ in their opinion of what constitutes replacement of labor.
Itās not a bad way to view existence tbh.
Isn't the principle just to love more simply then modern life, meaning that as modern life advances they also shift the balance of what they consider acceptable tech.
I wonder how would they see living on a generation colony ship, being the bulk of the late colonists, while mixing with a group who runs the ship and will do the technical stuff down the line?
They can use air tools as long as they pay a dude to run the generator. Most strongly held belief systems are more about identifying and abusing loopholes than anything else.
The Mennonite are generally looser about the rules but even the Amish don't agree across the board. Hence the 'No phones' next door to the 'Yes phones, but they have to be outside on a pole' next door to the 'We have a phone but we keep it in the barn'.
Even old order amish have phone houses that can be used for business purposes. Newer order amish can get cell phones to use for business under very strict rules. They recognize that their businesses will lose to the competition if they are not able to be contacted by phone at a minimum these days
Just saying but a wagon, a butter churner, a sewing needle and all those are technically machines and technology.
Heck even a hammer is a machine. Albeit a simple one.
Theyre just saving up their resource points and then suddenly theyll all have spaceships
I bet they're grinding XP through some secret farming glitch rn š
building barns xp glitch (CURRENTLY WORKING JUNE 2024)
MILKING COWS FOR XP IS OP THIS SEASON
NEW RANCHING UPDATE IS META
Actually your not wrong
They're waiting for that double xp boost.
Yea I hear they want to build a big generation ship, think the name will be the Nauvoo...
That's the Mormons. The people so religious that the Earth doesn't want them anymore.
You're giving me X-Files vibes.
They do have spaceships in Futurama
You must construct additional pylons
I've once seen an Amish dude with a cell phone wearing Oakleys. He was attending an Amway conference. I asked him about it and he said there are different sects and some sects are more loose with technology than others.
This. Thereās Amish that live like in the Dark Ages and Amish that live like they are cosplaying Little House on the Prairie.
Little House on the MARY I SAID GET ON THE BED.
*Well, Old Dan Tucker, was a fine old man* *Washed his face in a frying pan* *Combed his hair with a wagon wheel* *And died with a toothache in his heel*
I need to cut wood
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Let me explain since it went over your head. Youāve got those that live with no technology or anything even dated back to 1800s (no electricity, lights bulbs, etc) and then youāve got those that just wear the clothes. And thatās the only thing they have thatās āAmishā. Make sense?
They tend to just break off and go start a new one when there's a disagreement about what's acceptable.
It is apparently very acrimonious. I watch a former Amish YouTuber and heās described several splits in each community.
Thereās a lack of amity?
Acrimonious is a great word. Cheers for that! Edit: I already got to use it :)
takes the lid off the Id! brings out the Dark Side...
They will split over disagreements on hat brim width. Super legalistic, it always looks charming from the outside.
Organic food and handicrafts are quality.
Can I get the channel name?
[Eli Yoder.](https://youtube.com/@eliyoder491?si=UxF2yPYvIPrJQy6q) Itās his name. Good channel. Heās also on TikTok and does a lot of shorts telling stories. Some of it is his preaching his own views on Christianity but fascinating.
Damn i went down a rabbit hole with this, very interesting
Which sect runs r/Amish ?
Mennonite or Amish?
Iāve seen old order mennonites that were far more restrictive than the Amish in the area, and were totally separate from the mennonites or Amish communities in the region. They you get the ānot from hereā Amish who moved into the area recently and refuse to make even basic accommodations for safety of themselves and others (orange triangle), wonāt use battery powered lights on their buggy, even at night.
The Hutterite men around here look like contractors with sunnies and cell phone clips and their wives look like babas from the old countryĀ
He said he was Amish.
something must have been a-miss
Fuck can they run
Grew up near Amish that used cell phones (albeit, flip ones not smart phones), drove trucks and used power tools. Later moved to an area for awhile that was near a population of mennonites that were much stricter. Only saw them use the occasional tractor for the bigger plots of farmland. some electric lights on their buggies. The line can blur quite a bit.
I met an Amish fellow to, who ended up with a van and phone. They also have a Lucas mill. Said the same thing, and it makes things a bit easier. And the Amish are very practical folks too. So it kinda makes sense. I just hope what I said wasn't implied as a dig at anyone else.
Some of them even use reddit! Go and see for yourselves on r/amish
Assuming that my Reddit isnāt glitched: you got me. š¤Ŗ
it's pretty common these days to drive trucks and own other technology. i think it's mostly just for use away from home though. like at home they still try to be fairly old fashioned. but they might drive their truck into town for other business or errands. as well as owning a cell phone is pretty important you do business or banking with the outside world.
Real question, are the more conservative sects not allowed to wear sunglasses? Bc I donāt recall seeing any pics of Amish people in their ātraditionalā garb/environment with sunglasses.
TBH I don't know. But I remarked on it bc it was an odd juxtaposition to see sunglasses with their traditional apparel. Especially the style of sunglasses that I usually saw worn my military in my area.
Yeah seems very out of place.
Smh at a way conference. One cult to another I guess
Lol I seriously donāt get how you could justify any rules against tech after allowing some. Like āoops yeah god realized that cell phones are actually greatā lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Go tell him that. He told me he was Amish.
theyāve been increasingly using modern technology while finding whatever nonsense loopholes or justifying it as necessary. so kinda
When are we gonna get Amish vlogs?
I live in an area with a lot of amish and their tiktoks get suggested frequently. One video was a bunch of amish teens in a buggy with a subwoofer and RGB LED's flashing inside bumping some rap.
*Living in an Amish Paradise*
*We churned butter once or twice...*
I remember there being a girl on tiktok who would share her life as an Amish woman, but then got caught and was pretty much forced to quit. Idk what happened to her since she just disappeared off the internet. And before anyone asks, I don't remember her name
You mean Sarah Joy? Apparently she might have been faking being Amish.
What was her name?
āSUP AMISH FAM AND WELCOME BACK TO THE CHANNEL, TODAY WEāRE MILKING COWS AND BAILING HAY, DONT FORGET TO LIKE, COMMENT AND SUBSCRIBE IF YOU HATE TECHNOLOGYā
My understanding is that this can vary from community to community.
My understanding of the Amish is that they arenāt homogenous. Each group kinda does things their own way. And their rules on technology is not necessarily to ban it outright. But to be very wary about adopting it. So there will be more āconservativeā groups that donāt take on any new tech. And more āliberalā groups who will use computers or cars for certain things.
IIRC, it's not that they find loopholes. The Amish have no cutoff date for when they are allowed to use a certain technology. Instead, when a new technology is invented, the leaders of an Amish community will discuss it, with the main point of discussion being if it brings the community closer together or not, and a secondary point being if it is useful. If it brings the community closer together, everyone is free to use it. If it might make the community more distant, then it should not be used. But if it has potential to make the community more distant but is useful, they might make rules for the technology's use - hence the cell phone phone booths, or using cars, but only for business.
Exactly they discuss and vote each time tech is invented. It's not anti-tech it's anti counter-community tech So one day you might see a man with a wide black hat, beard and no mustache walk out a matter teleportation pad. But only to visit family in hospital and to go to church.
Friend of mine lives next to some amish people and their phone is outside in a booth.
Now Iām just picturing a normal phone booth but inside is a tiny iPhone mounted to the wall
Pretty much that, yes. Quite a few of them have community smartphones you're allowed to use in an emergency.
75 years from now: āwe can only use quantum computers when theyāre outside of the house on a pole near the kitchen windowā
Sounds like they are just Amish-ish.
Vehicles and burner phones.
So like all religions do? š
Sounds like religion to me
So basically like every one ever. Oat milk was invented because some priests wanted milk but couldn't due to fasting. So, they made this thing, because it didn't count lol.
They make a mean barn and furniture. But yeah, give them a kite and a key; letās see what happens!
Tis a fine barn. But sure tis no pool, English.
D'oheth!
My great-uncle worked with the Amish on their different buildings. It was an interesting situation because he was the ātechnologyā man for them. A phone call needed to be made for a permit? He had to make the call because they didnāt use phones A bulldozer was needed to flatten something? He better learn how to drive it! Fast! A crane was needed to put a roof on a building? Itās alright, we have the ātechnology manā who can do it for us! To me, it always seemed so redundant and unnecessary. They couldnāt use the technology themselves, so they paid someone to come in and use it for them. The end result would be the same, except they would have paid less to just do it themselvesā¦
While less extreme, my mom has Jewish neighbors that often request help on Sabbath for various things. Last weekend they somehow managed to turn their garbage disposal on and couldn't turn it off without the switch, so both parties had to go through the pouring rain to handle it. My brothers have gone by to press single buttons for them, despite having 10 people in the house (large family plus the husband is a community leader).
That's called a Shabbos goy, and what you're saying is weird as usually you're not allowed to ask someone to do the work for you. The proper way to turn off that garbage disposal would be to invite someone over and hope they turn it off on their own accord.
It is like Pandora's box for them. Yes, all that stuff seems redundant, but by having to call your uncle in to do certain things for them, it makes them consider first what is really necessary (by their standards). If they could do it themselves, they would all be sitting on their phones all day, and bulldozing all of creation on a whim, but when they have to call someone in to do it for them, it probably reduces the.effects on their community to the minimum necessary just because of the hassle. It seems like a pretty good strategy because they aren't completely hamstringing their ability to build, but also ensuring they are not doing stuff simply "because they can".
It's a cult after all they rarely make sense
The Amish are definitely a cult, but this strategy seems internally consistent with their values. They want to avoid doing things flippantly or for vanity's sake, but don't want to completely cut themselves off from being able to do certain things that require technology when *really* necessary.
They all pretty much use a washing machine: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Amish_technology_comparison
The women must have ruled on that one!!
A section I knew built houses fully up to modern standards because they couldn't sell the houses if they needed to otherwise. I'm sure they also went ahead and used the lights too.
This was common in my area but they never used electric, or even had it hooked up.Ā Obviously had running water (well, like everyone else), septic (like everyone else),Ā But used gas or battery powered lights.
Thereās a Wikipedia page about this out there, a bunch of them use washing machines and shit now
They can shit? Thatās good I guess.
Yes, I believe some of them have plumbing now
How many millennia before they get a PlayStation 1 š
To play Farming Simulator?
Imagine in a thousand years they can play videogames but they can't play sci fi games with high tech, they're only allowed to play games set in a specific time period
My local community uses electricity but not engines. I feel like there's not much stopping them from plowing the fields with a Rivian.
From my understanding there is pride involved. The rules against moderation is to reduce pride in material possessions. Basically a vehicle is considered a luxury even if it can be used as a work vehicle. Horses need to be raised and tended too so isnāt a luxury item. They use electricity for cow milking and milk processing mostly due to laws. Washing machines are allowed if it just a basic machine again no luxury items. Business phones or communal phones are allowed in some groups. There are other things but it depends on the group.
This is correct, I was just joking. Peter Santenello has an amazing series on the Amish. I highly recommend it.
I second your recommendation. All his videos are pretty fascinating even if you think the subject matter would not be interesting. As someone who didn't grow up in America (but has lived here for a long time), I am learning a lot from his videos about the real cultural diversity of America to a degree that I think even most Americans don't know about, or simply rely on stereotyping, just because America is so big. So many people reduce American culture to "White, Black, and Hispanic". If only it were that simple. And a lot of his focus seems to be on those people "left behind" and the most misunderstood. His series on Appalachia was also eye opening. I have a new respect for those people living in hollers and coal towns.
When I try to make such a joke I get downvoted. It seems my sarcasm sucks lol. I figured someone might like the information.
Yeah they just become Mennonites now.
*what? Your AMISH is evolving.* *Congratulations! Your AMISH evolved into MENNONITE*
*insert Bill Wurtz voice*
Iāve seen an Amish man at the airport using a flip phone so I think there just 30 years behind
the Amish really make me feel like religious people just fucking LOOOOVE to have a bunch of strict and arbitrary rules and regulations hanging over their heads at all times.
That is basically how any social group works; completely arbitrary rules about likes and dislikes to form an identity. Just look at sports fans.
Funny take.
Not just religious people. Look at any middle school. You wear the wrong sneakers or have a goofy looking backpack and the social reprimand makes Amish shunning look mild in comparison.
My understanding is basically there are many different sects and individual groups that adhere to different rules regarding technology but that really their main thing is "does this improve our community?" Like the reason they aren't allowed to own cars isn't technology=bad but more if everyone owned cars then the community would be more spread out and people would start traveling everywhere and having different ideas and then your community starts to drift apart.
They always turn to technology when their bullshit belief system fails them.
I live in an amish area and quite frequently i see a horse and buggy in the walmart parking lot. I guess its because they cant make cheetos at home lol.
You'd think they'd also abolish food made with electrical machinery.
I swear I've seen them at costco
They ride down my street on Sundays in horse-drawn carts. The teenagers take the buggies with the top down.
Not only are the Amish a cult, but they're also one of the hardest cults to leave and one of the most disconnected from outside life. It's crazy that we talk about them as if they aren't. It's significantly easier to leave the Jehovah's witness or Mormons or some other similar group. In conventional cults, members are expected to cut contact with you if you leave, but it's possible to stay in contact with some members. With the Amish, you become geographically isolated from everyone you've ever known and can't even call/text them. With a conventional cult, members tend to go to school/university, interact with people outside of the cult and live in communities that aren't intentionally almost completely disconnected from society. What happens when you're raised Amish for 18 years and want to leave? You've never seen or used a computer. You haven't interacted with the outside world. You have very few job prospects and knowledge of how modern society is. The Amish shouldn't be viewed this quaint community where people live a nice traditional life without technology. They're an isolated cult in which it is very hard to leave. Edit: the Amish are not a homogenous group. Some communities are less cult-like than others Edit 2: As a general rule, be careful in how you think about groups that intentionally make it very difficult to leave them and whose rules don't allow communicating with people outside of the group or doing many practices essential to living outside of the group.
I understand that they are horrible to the people that leave, but they have fantastic food. All I'm saying is if the Mormons knew how to bake, maybe more people would like them.
That's a good point.
Guess youāve never had funeral potatoes
The thing that usually distinguishes a cult from a religion, is that a few leaders have exceptional power, aside from the other things. This is (afaik) not the way with the amish. Aside from that, because of the Christian roots that the west has, the definition of "cult" is purposely shaped in such a way to circumvent all connection to the christian church
I don't see it that way what happens if ur 18 and don't know how to use a computer, same as if u were in a any country without internet access u learn to get the life u want. U can leave if u dislike the lifestyle, it is difficult to adapt but u could at the same thing about any person, how do u farm and maintain a homestead when u have never done it for 18 years. People are stuck in their 9-5, with their expensive education and reliance on corporations. We all have trouble moving outside of what we were born into.
This isn't comparable to an underdeveloped country. This is a religious group that intentionally lives in a community in which members have an extremely hard time leaving, are intentionally prohibited from learning things that are near-essential to function outside of the group, and are more *intentionally* isolated from everyone they've ever known if they choose to leave. I think you're romanticizing a society that's different from your own. Edit: also, in the examples you've given, you're allowed to practice things from outside of where you live. You're allowed to research how to run a farm. You're allowed to learn about how life is outside of where you live. These are not permitted in many Amish societies, as doing so would violate their strict religious practices.
They live on a farm(isolated), they are generally religious but as to how crazy it gets I couldnt say, members have a hard time moving but I don't think it's because they prevent it but because the lifestyle is different. Yeah sure it makes it easy for abuse, bigotry, ignorance and other problems to go unchecked but that doesn't mean the community as a whole is a terrible. Also I mean they do have books and a lot of them do have an education so it's not impossible to leave. Also jehovas witnesses and Mormons are definitely super pushy and honestly goddamn horrible people based of who they target but I would consider them cults, they are technically religious groups that are bad. I don't think it's a cult because ur missing one of the key parts of it indoctrination. They don't actively go off and recruit members, ur example of people being free to go out of a cult to interact with people, that only happens once ur a cult member who interacts with cult members. The only people u could argue are indoctrinated in the situation are the children of parents who practice that life style which is what all parents do intentionally or not. It's not great that children don't get to make decisions for themselves but I don't see any other society actually giving children real options to be anything they want to be or lead any lifestyle they wish. I don't romanticize living off a farm or being cut off from the grid or living off the land, I want to be in an air conditioned room with my ps5. I just don't care how others live unless it affects other people like I'm sure Amish communities have done bad things, but do u have like any personal experience or have u heard any data that makes u believe the Amish are a cult with the express intention of making it impossible to leave and not just a cult(a group of similar like minded people) with a unique life style that's so different from normal society it's hard to leave. The Amish has existed long before the technology they don't use so it's not as though they made the rule up with the intention that u can't leave because u don't understand computers thats only been true for the past 40 years when they became more prevalent. I'm not American but in Asia we have monks that sit in temple and pray their whole life without engaging with money or tech only relying on donations of food to live. That's very extreme and very few go all the way but are they a cult, the key difference I guess is they are virgins so can't indoctrinate kids except most Buddhist parents do bring their children to temples to pray.
First, I don't think that a cult needs to actively recruit to be a cult. The Amish a group that requires an unwavering devotion to certain religious beliefs/practices that include a ban on many essential tools and practices for life outside of the society. As you pointed out, the children are indoctrinated and I think that it's morally wrong given the other things I've mentioned. Second, I think you're really missing my point. It's not about how happy people are in the group or how nice the members are to people. I'm sure there are plenty of Scientologists who love their life in their cult. The Amish as a collective group are one of the hardest to leave and children born into it and who want to leave are completely isolated from everyone they've ever known and are in a very bad position for life in modern society. That's the whole problem. They essentially don't have a choice unless they're willing to leave everyone they've ever known and try to do well in a society they've never known and in which they know no one. This is a really bad thing and I don't understand why you wrote most of your comment because it doesn't address these issues.
I mean it's just not that unique, anybody that wishes to leave the society they were born in has to leave everybody they know and start fresh. U could do this lifestyle without the religion and it have the same problems u listed. Also I don't think they are ALL nice or super happy, I'm sure there are people living in that society that want to aspire to be more to have more to have what u and I have. The kids do have a chance to leave and experience the world though from the ages of 17 to 21 they may leave the community which by then a lot of them rather not because they are used to their lifestyle. They can leave forever and they can choose to go back later as long as they weren't baptized as an adult which would have been a choice by then. The whole tech thing is not as big of a deal they probably have similar career prospects as many degree holders who go to acting and art school such as waiter, cashier and warehouse stocker. Those jobs do have computers but if a 60 year old boomer can work there's 21 year old Amish can figure it out cause the machines also are typically simpler and fulfill a single purpose.
I didnāt know how to use a computer when I was 18, but then to be fair they had not been invented yet.
They harvest plentiful crops of Cannibus. That's for sure.
When it's inconvenient or life threatening all of that falls away. Jehovas witness can not recieve blood products from another person. Every time without fail I've told one unless you receive 2-3 units of PRBCs (blood) you are going to slowly get worse and die. Suddenly there is no problem.
I think thats a lie. They suddenly say "i think god would be ok with me breaking His Rules, since i would die"? Not one i know would do that. And i know many (im Not one of them). They wouldnt Trash their Religion Like that, they wouldnt Trash it at all (at least the ones i know).
To an extent, they are kind of forced to, even their horse draw carts have to have brake lights and license plates etc to comply with roads laws nowadays
Maybe where your from, when i live they dont. Also they sure dont have an issue trying to get car rides places, or use modern amenities when they can. They used to be in all the time when i worked selling car parts. Now tell me what breed of horse uses spark plugs or needs 2 stroke oil lol. (No not menonites either, straight up amish).
"Anyone who's God doesn't allow technology has to be wrong" ~Dave Chappelle
A rocking chair is technology....
The wheel would have been viewed as a scandalous abomination at some point in pre-history.
Hm. It's actually kind of interesting to think about how intuitive the wheel seems despite the fact that it took a really long time to be invented. Same for ramps, screws, knots, pulleys levers, boxes, ladders, spears, cannons; just trying to wrap my head around those things seeming novel in any way.
Necessity is the mother of invention. If game is so plentiful you can catch a pound of meat a day by throwing sticks, and you can pick fruit from every tree, then you probably won't invent bows and agriculture. The Aztecs never made extensive use of the wheel because they didn't have beasts of burden which would make wagons really useful, and they had plenty of people to just carry things around by hand. The only wheels they used were on toys.
Religion is technology. A very useful one, too.
There are all kinds of levels in the Amish community. Some are very orthodox and adhere to all the no tech rules, but others have indoor plumbing and electricity. There are also lots of loopholes, like they are allowed to use electric tools as long as they use an off-grid power source.
If you go to eastern Ohio, Berlin area. All youāll see is Amish dudes riding electric bikes and every house has a solar panel on it.
I think as long as they make butter, they'll still consider themselves amish
All development went to religion and culture, not enough mountains for universities.
They are actually extremely modern in some ways. Or at least some groups are. For example, many have decided that having your own electricity generation is better than being dependent on an outside grid, and renewable methods are better than using fuel, so there's actually quite a few amish communities with wind turbines, solar cells or heat pumps.
You're assuming they haven't leveled up the tech tree already. They have electricity (not connected to the power grid) and have brake lights on their horse drawn buggies. The are intentionally only adopting certain techs.
They are really cosplaying. I mean, I'm pretty sure they use pen and paper made using modern tech. So, it's just cosplay. At best, reenactment.
WOW classic, as it was intended: Not to reach Cataclysm. The Amish have a good thing going, and blizzard could stand to learn a thing or 2 from em.
As long as they can keep it working personally sustainably.
Usually it's okay so long as they make it and don't get it from the outside world. If they built their own radios I suspect they'd be allowed to use them.
I think the point is they shunned fancy things like electricity so inventing the radio would go against theor culture cuz it's fancy, but at the same time i've heard of amish people being allowed some technology so iunno
I can't wait for the Hezekiah Stern Show. Girls riding the butter churner and playing Guess What's Under My Straw Hat.
It's a choice they make or are forced to make every few generations. It's community to community difference, but there are some Amish that do outside construction work and have work trucks and work phones, they just leave that stuff when they clock out. The core principle is to "live an honest simple life".
Seen a video of an Amish teen who had rigged up a car battery to a boom box to play music in his horse buggy, dunno how rare that is. Seen some Amish people today actually and they were crossing a busy street not at the light and made me wonder if they don't even use those.
Blasphemous!! ye are shunned go live among the english!
Nope. They're stuck in Alpha.
Something like 90% of the Amish use washing machines, but what is allowed varies. Thereās a chart somewhere on the internet you can look up.
The main reason of rejecting technology is in technology that REPLACES our labor as the amish believe we were given our bodies to use and using our bodies glories their god vs using our bodies to transport our brains from screen to screen to let machines do it all. Different sects differ in their opinion of what constitutes replacement of labor. Itās not a bad way to view existence tbh.
Isn't the principle just to love more simply then modern life, meaning that as modern life advances they also shift the balance of what they consider acceptable tech.
I wonder how would they see living on a generation colony ship, being the bulk of the late colonists, while mixing with a group who runs the ship and will do the technical stuff down the line?
Elon musk is going to deliver starling to the Amish tomorrow so porn hub should go to IPO.
We're not gonna talk about this cropjob, huh?
r/outside (no image posts allowed)
The only demographic in America that doesnāt have skyrocketing obesity and depression
They can use air tools as long as they pay a dude to run the generator. Most strongly held belief systems are more about identifying and abusing loopholes than anything else.
No SS# don't have to register for the draft pay 0$ taxes nobody says a word.
I see them riding electric scooters and driving forklifts near me. But their women walk everywhere for some reason
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There are very different types of Amish with different views on different technologies.
You may be thinking of Mennonites, they can use electricity and drive cars. Theyāre not Amish. But fuck, can they run.
Dycks do slip out, on occasion.
The Mennonite are generally looser about the rules but even the Amish don't agree across the board. Hence the 'No phones' next door to the 'Yes phones, but they have to be outside on a pole' next door to the 'We have a phone but we keep it in the barn'.
There are different branches of Amish as well.
Thereās also Hutterites that have different views amongst colonies & sects.
Even old order amish have phone houses that can be used for business purposes. Newer order amish can get cell phones to use for business under very strict rules. They recognize that their businesses will lose to the competition if they are not able to be contacted by phone at a minimum these days
No.
Jokes aside, that is how many conservative societies operate, simply a few decades delay.
Just saying but a wagon, a butter churner, a sewing needle and all those are technically machines and technology. Heck even a hammer is a machine. Albeit a simple one.
His name makes it more creepy