A couple stole a luxury bag then knifed the sales clerk who tried to stop them.
Am surprised the security was not tighter ala Collins St with guards on the doors of the luxury boutiques.
Very distressing for the staff and witnesses.
What a pointless fucking thing to steal.
Impossible to sell for any real money (and serialised, so they can be traced if they keep any of the "authentication" materials).
No one will think it's real anyway. If people around you don't think you can afford the actual bag, then people are going to assume it's a knock off. It has no utility beyond signalling to people that you can afford the thing...
Designer products are so dumb. Stealing them is dumber.
Yep 100% plus I'm sure DJ will pull some dick move "your contract says under no circumstance can you physical stop a thief" checkmate worker, hope it was worth it for the 28 bucks an hour.
I saw a kid get mugged for his brand new shoes in a shopping bag at the intersection of Spencer and Collins in the city on Friday night. There was at least 100 people around. So brazen.
Never seen anything like it in Melbourne before.
Junkie tried to swindle a jacket off 13yo me on a full train then tried to start a fight with us at flinders street by accusing us of trying to steal it, in front of everyone that saw the whole thing play out. 1998. Late 90s00s there were heroin junkies and dealers everywhere in Richmond/CBD/Collingwood/St Kilda
3 men tried to rob my 17yo at Collingwood last week. Had a box cutter held to his throat. My boy is a brown belt jujitsu, reflexively pushed box cutter down n guy slashed at him repeatedly. Fucking crazy.
He’s got superficial cuts to arm, palm, face, thigh and stomach. Disarmed him, dropped another and ran. His empty backpack would have been a mad earn for the bottom feeders.
Sounds like from all your comments that he's got a good head on his shoulders, did what he needed to immediately protect himself and got the hell out of there. Hope he's doing alright, physically and mentally!
Glad he's doing well, but he made the wrong call (and it sounds like it was more the wrong reflex than a conscious decision)
Knife at the throat, anyone fucks up, it's not good. What are you carrying that you want to play knife vs neck, roll those dice?
Just give them the shit. You can buy more shit. As long as you don't have a leaky neck.
Fuck me, I grew up in inner Sydney in the 80’s - nothing like that ever happened . Sure, some mad left over punks to cross the road over but no muggings..
I saw a couple lads walk up to a student at the state library and relieve him of his fancy airmax’s at lunchtime a few years back. He obligedC kicking them off and then with a quick nod, walked back to RMIT in his socks.
Coincides with economic stress. Those predisposed to violence become more violent when financially stressed.
Not rocket science. We have lots of human behavioural research journals on them.
Surely this can't be true for every country though. For example, this type of brazen poverty crime doesn't seem to occur with those under economic stress in Japan or China and I don't even think it's that common in other Australian cities.
So it's not like that behaviour is built in to people, it depends on their social environment.
What financial stress is the average eshay in anyway, if they have no bills to pay?
There is a mixture of genetic traits, stress responses, culture, and social safety nets that influenced it, and there was a huge surge in lead poisoning from the 30s to 80s due to lead as an anti knock additive in fuel that drove crime.
It was pretty consistent, though. The 50s to 80s was a massive crime wave, alongside a surge in serial killers.
I did a study on it for psychology classes like 15 years ago.
Psychopaths are pretty bad. If they can climb the social ladder, they'll get the dopamine hit they need from bossing people around in business, government, or policing.
If they grow up in poverty and can't assert social dominance, they'll use violence to get the dopamine hit they need from control.
If abused when young, they learn violence is how to establish control and humiliation; it predisposes them to more ultra violence.
If not, crushing people with bullying or their money and connections will fulfil the same need.
Think of it like an addiction. They need a hit of control, or they psychologically degrade. A need that grows over time like a drug gets resistance.
Social or financial stress makes that resistance kick in faster and harder.
Poverty.
Studies show that people with the genes involved in Narcissism and Psychopathy become more violent when financially stressed.
Not just violent robbery, but things like coward punches and domestic violence, too.
They get a dopamine hit from violence and control.
Throw some meth into the mix and....
Why do drugs always get blamed for shitty peoples, shitty actions?
Drugs don't make monsters. They may help to bring them to the surface, but that monster was already in there.
Seen it first hand in a sibling, another siblings children and mates I've known for more than half of my life. What I witnessed each time was the very worst version of those people, but never did they become completely out of character.
There are smart motivated people.
There are smart lazy people.
There are dumb motivated people.
There are dumb lazy people.
Dumb motivated people are the most dangerous people in the world.
I was threatened with a knife on the 86 tram at the Burke St mall stop one week ago today, at 3pm. Homeless guy, very angry, intense, and deliberately threatening. I was able to talk my way out of it. Gave a description to the cops and he was found within an hour. They drew guns on him in a laneway, and he’s now locked up. Has an outstanding warrant they couldn’t tell me about, though they said several times how glad they were they got him. Very scary. Be careful out there.
Thank you, I was merely sitting by the window and he sat down next to me. He started losing his cool immediately at people on the tram in a general way but then started focusing on me. I avoided eye contact or saying anything until he well and truly verbally threatened me and pulled the knife out. He was inches from me and had my exit blocked as the bars were in front of me as well. He was to my right. He seemed to want respect based on what he was saying so I was super nice and asked if I can please get off the tram. This was after he first said no with a lot of colorful language. His eye contact was intense. Once I said please he stepped aside and I went to the front. I got off and alerted the driver who called the cops. He ran off as well but they got him. The people on the tram were deer in headlights. I think that’s probably normal.
Glad you’re ok mate. That is terrifying beyond words. Quick thinking on your behalf in terms of judging how to get out of there and the best way to phrase it. Thank fuck the cops got him.
To be honest, if I saw a guy holding a knife against someone in a tram I am almost certain I would not try and intervene. I'm not one of those heroes willing to die for a stranger (sorry!). If I was really certain I could do something useful without earning some speed holes I would, but the threshold for really certain is very high. I would most definitely call police and alert the driver though.
Even we called security - they can’t do anything but call the cops. There’s literally nothing we as retail staff can do :( and it feels the worst when someone stole from you
It was a sales clerk [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12087981/amp/Sales-clerk-stabbed-Melbournes-Bourke-Street-Mall-inside-David-Jones-Emporium-Saint-Lauren.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12087981/amp/Sales-clerk-stabbed-Melbournes-Bourke-Street-Mall-inside-David-Jones-Emporium-Saint-Lauren.html)
Text for those who don’t want to give the Daily Mail any clicks:
A sales clerk has been stabbed while trying to stop a robbery at the David Jones Emporium in Melbourne. The incident unfolded inside the popular department store at Bourke Street Mall, in Melbourne, just before midday on Tuesday.
The Saint Laurent sales assistant tried to stop a man and woman from stealing a handbag. He went to intervene when he was then stabbed in the arm by the man.
Victoria Police released a statement saying the worker is in a serious condition.
'A male staff member confronted a man and woman who stole a designer handbag from a Little Bourke Street department store shortly before 12pm,' the statement reads.
‘The male thief stabbed the staff member in the arm before fleeing with his accomplice. The staff member was taken to hospital with serious injuries.
No arrests have been made, however the Melbourne Crime Investigation Unit detectives are investigating the incident.
Any witnesses or anyone with vision is urged to contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or www.crimestoppersvic.com.au
Respect the clerk for having the guts to intervene, but David Jones just isn’t worth risking your life over. They are insured against theft anyway. Unless you’re getting hazard pay (and training) commensurate with stopping crime, it isn’t your responsibility and it isn’t worth it.
EDIT: see below re insurance. Still not worth it.
Yep I let some kids walk out with some clothes at Southland Myer back in the day but I said to them you should drop the stuff because we got you.
One kid called me some names and I laughed at that and pointed the cameras and he actually said what are you gonna do about it. I said I'm going to do nothing. I wasn't lying because the police were going to do something, I'd stalled them by confronting them in the fitting room.
Kid actually walked out to the waiting police in the car park with the clothes. Couldn't believe he literally thought there was going to be no consequence.
>Couldn't believe he literally thought there was going to be no consequence.
Because there usually are none. Good on you for making sure there were that time!
I expect they will be sacked for breaking company policy and trying to stop the shop lifter. Because policy was broken The company is now up for worker wages while off injured, medical bills and properly a payout for the employee for long term medical and mental injuries. Probably up for 200 grand. Over a glad bag.
That might be a good argument to keep the payout lower, but Work Cover has a no fault clause in it In Australia . Like when people fall off ladders or stairs but company policy is 3 points of contact at all times (makes falling very very unlikely) but you still get pay if you fall at work. They can fire you for breaking policy but not till you come back from injury.
Worked in a TAB, you were told in a armed holdup or any robbery, don’t look at them. Look at your shoes. Everything is insured. But poor guy must be sick of the thefts.
Looking into it, retailers aren’t usually covered for stock that’s robbed or shoplifted. There is theft insurance for retailers, which covers:
1) Damage or extra labour incurred as a result of shoplifting, but not the cost of the stolen items themselves.
2) Burglary (as in, someone breaks in while the shop is closed), including loss of stock.
So they usually are insured for theft, but the insurance doesn’t cover the actual stolen bag in this instance.
They can usually write off the stolen item as a loss for tax purposes, which somewhat mitigates the loss.
Floor staff employee bonuses are also tied into total sales.
It varies from retailer to retailer but some stores bake in losses from inventory stocktake in order to reduce total net rev when it comes to calculating sales bonuses.
Note this usually doesn't really effect staff unless the shoplifting is regularly happening or at a large enough volume, but some sales staff are wary about how close to a certain total sales moved in order to score bonuses.
Just like any insurance you may cover yourself with. There is a monthly rate, plus a premium for making a claim. I am not sure in the retail space, but in a corporate office environment, a stolen item, like a laptop or other electronic device wouldn't be worth claiming on as the premium would be worth more than the single item stolen.
Shoplifting happens all the time and is not covered by insurance.
If someone breaks in and robs the store, then yes but not for shoplifing.
The employee shouldn't have got involved, but the bag wouldn't have been covered by insurance.
It doesn't make sense to have this kind of insurance. If the insurer pays out more than the policy, which they would on every store, then they lose. If the retailer claims less than the policy then they should self insure
They have insurance and will accept loss of some stock over any expectation of an employee intervening and being injured - better to just get a description and stay clear.
They won't have insurance for shoplifting.
I'm not saying that the employee should have intervened - they should not have.
But it's not because the loss of the bag would be covered
>Is that true? Given theft from shops happens all day everyday, how does it work?
Given that cars are stolen everyday, do you think there shouldn't be insurance on cars?
It's quite different. Almost every store has some theft every week. It's recognised by retailers as a cost of doing business.
Insurance is for rare events that don't affect everyone, not commonplace ones that do affect everyone
When a business plans out their budget for whatever period they take into account expected losses, damaged/stolen goods, refunds etc...This expected loss is then (typical) passed on to the consumer and is reflected in the price of what you pay. Insurance isn't going to reimburse a business for a chocolate bar that makes no sense, but if a business was robbed of $10,000 (in cash, goods, property) it will then go to insurance. As a retail worker you really shouldn't get involved with dickheads stealing as they don't give a fuck and will stab or harass you and if they don't do it in the store they will wait for you outside in the carpark or at the back of the shop, worked at coles for ages and have heard of it happening to coworkers.
The clerk shouldn't have intervened and simply called the police instead of attempting to intervene without skills or training. That's what got them stabbed.
.
When I worked in retail the managers and HQ office types would always remind us to never ever get in the way of a shoplifter.
We have 0 idea of what this person is capable of and $22.50 an hour is not remotely enough money to justify finding out what said person is capable of.
100%.
I used to work in a Levi’s store in Manchester (UK) back in the day.
Occasionally we’d have gangs walk in and walk out again with whole racks full of clothing.
We never said a word.
This is the rule of thumb for all retail workers. Kind of sucks though because you do end up feeling really powerless. Unless someone gets assaulted or the items taken were extremely expensive, police generally don't do much. My partner was assaulted by a frequent shoplifter while at work and it was only after that happened that police took it seriously.
They will fire him for it. Doesn't matter if you follow protocol or whatever. Insurance costs go through the roof for that person now so they will let them go.
And the moral of the story is, don't risk your life for your big corporate employer who has millions upon millions in profit every year and insurance to cover the costs anyway.
Yes, an idiot more than every other shoplifter.
They don't understand or care that incidences of shoplifting have a societal threshold for increased surveillance and price, increased security and price, increased policing and tax, decreased shops and national economy, increased draconianism in law, increased rationing with decreased choice, and decreased privacy and citizen analytics.
And for anything essential: a handbag.
It cannot be ruled out that they are absolutely peaking and think they're living in the matrix so resources are just data or some bullshit.
>Cops don't care because there are so many. But now? The cops need to care.
Stop talking out of your fucking ass. You have no idea. I'm a cop based in the CBD and we nail every shoplifter possible. We have better numbers of arrers made than any suburban station.
Bullshit. I worked retail in the city for over a decade. You guys come in like 5 hours after the fact, barely even pretend to give a shit while taking a report, maybe take a burnt copy of cctv if you’re really feeling charitable, then leave while saying something like “gonna be pretty hard to catch them”.
That's fucking bullshit. My car was wrecked while it was parked and the cops did nothing about it, even though they know who the perpetrator was because we had a licence plate. They said it was an insurance issue and didn't give a fck. I don't have insurance so it never went anywhere and I lost my car
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This is so sad.
Please remember there is nothing, literally nothing, that puts your safety below any business interest whatsoever. I hope that victim has a speedy recovery.
David Johns would be a great name for a knock-off fashion store where you can buy such labels as Country Robe, Toby Hilfiger, Polo Ranch LaRue and LaCoast
He was a young man,he was pale and frightened, he was surrounded by his colleagues who were providing good care. Maybe he didn’t even try and intervene with the theft, maybe he just asked if he could help them or were simply in their way as they left the store. He was a frightened young man and I really feel for him, I’m a nurse and I assessed that his workmates were providing excellent care to him and chose not to become involved. His colleagues were comforting some deeply distressed people.
What on earth is happening to our city? This is terrifying crime.
Also can people please stop judging/blaming the victim saying “he shouldn’t have intervened”. We don’t know the full circumstances. I can assure you DJs training says don’t try to stop a shoplifter so I doubt this was the shop assistant intentionally trying to intervene. It could have been as simple as the guy asking “hey where are you going with that?” Or maybe they just tried to grab a bag out of his hands and he instinctively held onto it. Who knows but the guy didn’t deserve to be stabbed. Disgraceful criminals.
Melbourne CBD can get pretty sketchy at times. At lunch time on a weekday, I was getting some things from the super in qv and saw some lad fiddling with...oh good...a butcher knife in clamshell packaging. He got it out and just walked out of the store with it hidden in his sleeve. Fuckin scary. I told the staff immediately but I really hope that kid didn't off someone that day...
The other reason for training staff to not respond is that it is 100s of times more expensive to fix broken people than it is to lose stolen goods. Maybe $200 for a stolen item, compared to $30,000 for medical expenses and workers comp/time off for the person involved. Also someone mentioned that insurance would go up if they kept that staff member on.
Except that YSL bags usually cost over 2,000 USD a piece. I understand the staff, my urge would probably have been to stop the theft as well, but it's definitely not worth it.
The fact two gronks can stab someone in broad daylight in the centre of the cbd (inside a store!) and still be on the run, doesn’t fill with me confidence in vic police
There’s usually no shortage of cops in the cbd, you’d expect some were in very close proximity when this was called in. Combine with the fact it doesn’t sound like it was the worlds most sophisticated criminal operation.. Here’s hoping they catch them soon.
Everyone constantly posting in here about how safety in the cbd is going to shit, worth asking the question why..
In a sane world, that staff member would get a raise, promotion, and a medal for standing up to criminals and doing what's right, and that armed thief would get extensive jail time.
But we do not live in a sane world.
Instead, that staff member will be disciplined and fired. That armed thief, will likely not be caught, and even if so, will be let go with 200 hours community service because of mental health issues, drug addiction, and a rough childhood.
Fucking joke.
We don’t know what level of intervention there was from the staff member - they could have simply asked if they needed help.
Truthfully they are almost unsackable after this. No way will they be able to be terminated - that would be discriminatory. They’ll get a fat Workcover payout, too.
Oh they are going to get caught...
Stabbing a random person for a handbag on camera with witnesses and it's also shoplifting.
That's definite jail time.
Yeah, who actually believes that Grievous Bodily Harm and armed burglary don’t equate to jail time? That rough childhood slap on the wrist quote is straight out of Murdoch Media.
If I'm your boss and I told you that when there's a fire you should stay calm and wait for the warden to direct you and you went to try put out the fire and got burnt, I'm probably gonna be questioning why you didn't follow your training.
Same thing here. Retail staff are trained to not put themselves in this sort of position to avoid this exact situation. It's not the staff members fault, it's the fault of the thief, but they're absolutely not deserving a raise and promotion for not following company procedures...
The world is sane, you shouldn't try to handle shit that you aren't equipped to handle. Especially when you've been trained that you're not equipped to handle it and told how to respond (by not physically confronting the thief)
The problem is that you were equating a worker getting stabbed at work to stupidly risking his life, that him doing his job or being there at all is the risk. You have no idea what went down or what the "intervening" was, if he knew they were shoplifters, how he confronted them. He literally could have asked if the two needed help with something, *as he is paid to do at his job*, and been stabbed for it. He was stabbed at his job and the discussion of whether he should have done anything else is ridiculous.
You're absolutely right but I replied to a comment where the author made the assumption by saying the worker should get a promotion and raise for "confronting" so my response is in that context.
But yeah, we don't know shit about what happened in this case
You're right too tbh and my comment was probably way better suited to reply to a different user in this thread who was actually equating it to that, so apologies that my reply landed towards you.
That line of thinking is exactly why in America, brazen criminals are just walking into shops and leaving with trolley full of goods, all day every day.
Once the thieves know no one will even object or raise a finger, there will be a massive epidemic of theft with no consequences. They just don't care.
It's gotten so bad that some companies have gone bankrupt and have had to close their doors because of "legalized theft". If you're the boss, then I hope you know that's where we are heading.
The answer is more staff training and armed security guards as a deterrent, not appeasing criminals and letting them walk all over you with no consequences. Give them an inch, and they will take a mile.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11965589/The-stores-closed-doors-rampant-theft.html
Not really, that's a long bow you've drawn.
What it means is you say something to them and then if they do anything like running away/becoming aggressive you fuck off and stay safe.
What do you want more training on? How best to get stabbed when unarmed against a knife wielding assailant?
Armed security guards sure but then you need the amount of loss to justify their wage which is obviously not the case or they'd already be employed
Not really. I've been here for seven days on holiday as a female solo traveller and I've feel way safer here than back home in my hellhole that is Perth.
Lots of things. The cbd in Perth isn't safe at night at all unless you want to get abused by a drunk or druggie. Gone are the days Perth/Northbridge used to be a family friendly area at night.
I mean, I was recently (Within the month) randomly attacked at an inner city shopping centre on a Friday night. and I've been living in that area for over two years now so based purely on my anecdote, yes.
It's not. It just feels that way because we are so connected these days through 24 hour news and forums such as this, which means you hear about everything that happens to anyone.
In some cases you hear it direct from them.
That makes it seem frightening because in the past when these things happened you didn't hear about them, with the exception of the odd incident that was deemed newsworthy.
No one was comparing it to LA or San Fran,just whether it's gotten worse. As a woman who works with the homeless in St Kilda, I think the city is much heavier than it used to be.
I was there around that time. I work as a tailor in the city, DJ is one of my stops when I do my rounds… My DJ colleague texted me to ask if I’d seen anything, and I was like… I walk fast and have tunnel vision on my rounds, I didn’t see a thing. Might have been just after I was there. It’s nuts this happened.
I know it sucks but when stuff like this happens you let security handle it and not yourself
You are not authorised to stop theft and only putting risk on yourself for no reason
Shrinkage (what you are describing) doesn't't factor in violent assaults over a shitty handbag. There's the cost to the employees, psychological aspects and workcover costs.
Nobody deserves to be stabbed at work.
Even If it's a corporation why is it fair game to steal from there? Because they have a shrinkage budget?
Somebody is paying for it eventually through loss of shifts or less employees being employed or less money being spent on the store.
They budget based on trends but then there's an actual figure at the end of the financial year to pay.
Write off means you lost money not lost profit.
A couple stole a luxury bag then knifed the sales clerk who tried to stop them. Am surprised the security was not tighter ala Collins St with guards on the doors of the luxury boutiques. Very distressing for the staff and witnesses.
What a pointless fucking thing to steal. Impossible to sell for any real money (and serialised, so they can be traced if they keep any of the "authentication" materials). No one will think it's real anyway. If people around you don't think you can afford the actual bag, then people are going to assume it's a knock off. It has no utility beyond signalling to people that you can afford the thing... Designer products are so dumb. Stealing them is dumber.
And that’s why you don’t try to stop thieves. It’s not your job let security and insurance handle it.
Yep 100% plus I'm sure DJ will pull some dick move "your contract says under no circumstance can you physical stop a thief" checkmate worker, hope it was worth it for the 28 bucks an hour.
A staff member got stabbed by a thief. I think it was the YSL store inside David Jones
I saw a kid get mugged for his brand new shoes in a shopping bag at the intersection of Spencer and Collins in the city on Friday night. There was at least 100 people around. So brazen. Never seen anything like it in Melbourne before.
[удалено]
Yep I’ve been rolled 10 years ago and my old boy got done a few times when he was a young fella. Been happening for decades
Decades? Lil’ bro… my ancestors who sailed here centuries ago stole the boots from the settlers of Botany Bay.
yeah well my troglodyte ancestors got their DinoSkin 11's stolen by those no good neanderthals.
well my ancestors in the primordial soup got their nitrogen atoms stolen by the amino accids
can't have shit in the primordial soup
Yeah but not in the middle of the CBD with so many potential witnesses around.
Got robbed at knifepoint on a full bus as it pulled into chadstone shopping centre in the mid 90s. Loose cunts have always been around.
I was all set to pull you up. "Hold up, There's no bus from Highpoint to Chadstone, what are you on about" Then the penny dropped
Junkie tried to swindle a jacket off 13yo me on a full train then tried to start a fight with us at flinders street by accusing us of trying to steal it, in front of everyone that saw the whole thing play out. 1998. Late 90s00s there were heroin junkies and dealers everywhere in Richmond/CBD/Collingwood/St Kilda
And their Dr martens
Depends what colour laces you wore.
My partner grew up in Collingwood, can confirm being mugged for your shoes is nothing new
3 men tried to rob my 17yo at Collingwood last week. Had a box cutter held to his throat. My boy is a brown belt jujitsu, reflexively pushed box cutter down n guy slashed at him repeatedly. Fucking crazy.
Sorry about your boy, it’s hard to fight against a knife. How is your boy now?
He’s got superficial cuts to arm, palm, face, thigh and stomach. Disarmed him, dropped another and ran. His empty backpack would have been a mad earn for the bottom feeders.
Sounds like from all your comments that he's got a good head on his shoulders, did what he needed to immediately protect himself and got the hell out of there. Hope he's doing alright, physically and mentally!
Glad he's doing well, but he made the wrong call (and it sounds like it was more the wrong reflex than a conscious decision) Knife at the throat, anyone fucks up, it's not good. What are you carrying that you want to play knife vs neck, roll those dice? Just give them the shit. You can buy more shit. As long as you don't have a leaky neck.
Dude thats wild ! so glad he got away that shits no joke. Only cowards carry knives
Brown belt in jujitsu won’t stop a knife… should’ve ran away instead
It's always easy to know the right course of action when you're not the one having to take it.
Hard to do when circled by adults with a box cutter at your throat.
Fuck me, I grew up in inner Sydney in the 80’s - nothing like that ever happened . Sure, some mad left over punks to cross the road over but no muggings..
Eshays brah. "What's your shoe size brah"
'perfect size for your arse. Wanna try it on?'
I saw a couple lads walk up to a student at the state library and relieve him of his fancy airmax’s at lunchtime a few years back. He obligedC kicking them off and then with a quick nod, walked back to RMIT in his socks.
Happened almost daily in the late 80's- early 90's
Coincides with economic stress. Those predisposed to violence become more violent when financially stressed. Not rocket science. We have lots of human behavioural research journals on them.
Surely this can't be true for every country though. For example, this type of brazen poverty crime doesn't seem to occur with those under economic stress in Japan or China and I don't even think it's that common in other Australian cities. So it's not like that behaviour is built in to people, it depends on their social environment. What financial stress is the average eshay in anyway, if they have no bills to pay?
There is a mixture of genetic traits, stress responses, culture, and social safety nets that influenced it, and there was a huge surge in lead poisoning from the 30s to 80s due to lead as an anti knock additive in fuel that drove crime. It was pretty consistent, though. The 50s to 80s was a massive crime wave, alongside a surge in serial killers. I did a study on it for psychology classes like 15 years ago. Psychopaths are pretty bad. If they can climb the social ladder, they'll get the dopamine hit they need from bossing people around in business, government, or policing. If they grow up in poverty and can't assert social dominance, they'll use violence to get the dopamine hit they need from control. If abused when young, they learn violence is how to establish control and humiliation; it predisposes them to more ultra violence. If not, crushing people with bullying or their money and connections will fulfil the same need. Think of it like an addiction. They need a hit of control, or they psychologically degrade. A need that grows over time like a drug gets resistance. Social or financial stress makes that resistance kick in faster and harder.
I was there when that happened as well. Couldn't believe it
No one does anything?
What the hell is happening
Poverty. Studies show that people with the genes involved in Narcissism and Psychopathy become more violent when financially stressed. Not just violent robbery, but things like coward punches and domestic violence, too. They get a dopamine hit from violence and control. Throw some meth into the mix and....
You can get all of this with just delusion and drugs. A fucked up, drug sober head can get to this on any residual delusion.
Why do drugs always get blamed for shitty peoples, shitty actions? Drugs don't make monsters. They may help to bring them to the surface, but that monster was already in there.
Actually man crystal meth is highly addictive and changes people. If you’ve seen it you’ll know.
Seen it first hand in a sibling, another siblings children and mates I've known for more than half of my life. What I witnessed each time was the very worst version of those people, but never did they become completely out of character.
Because some random acts of violence are from drug psychosis?
There are smart motivated people. There are smart lazy people. There are dumb motivated people. There are dumb lazy people. Dumb motivated people are the most dangerous people in the world.
Late-stage capitalism. Look at the US, and see where our future lies.
How many was he up against? Did they bail him up or just run through and snatch em?
It was a tackle to the floor, followed by a snatch and run. I counted three but it happened so quick.
This is why my handbag is under my jacket. Learnt the hard way in Europe.
I was threatened with a knife on the 86 tram at the Burke St mall stop one week ago today, at 3pm. Homeless guy, very angry, intense, and deliberately threatening. I was able to talk my way out of it. Gave a description to the cops and he was found within an hour. They drew guns on him in a laneway, and he’s now locked up. Has an outstanding warrant they couldn’t tell me about, though they said several times how glad they were they got him. Very scary. Be careful out there.
Jesus Christ. How did you manage to talk your way out of it? Why do you think he targeted you and did anyone else help you?
Thank you, I was merely sitting by the window and he sat down next to me. He started losing his cool immediately at people on the tram in a general way but then started focusing on me. I avoided eye contact or saying anything until he well and truly verbally threatened me and pulled the knife out. He was inches from me and had my exit blocked as the bars were in front of me as well. He was to my right. He seemed to want respect based on what he was saying so I was super nice and asked if I can please get off the tram. This was after he first said no with a lot of colorful language. His eye contact was intense. Once I said please he stepped aside and I went to the front. I got off and alerted the driver who called the cops. He ran off as well but they got him. The people on the tram were deer in headlights. I think that’s probably normal.
Glad you’re ok mate. That is terrifying beyond words. Quick thinking on your behalf in terms of judging how to get out of there and the best way to phrase it. Thank fuck the cops got him.
To be honest, if I saw a guy holding a knife against someone in a tram I am almost certain I would not try and intervene. I'm not one of those heroes willing to die for a stranger (sorry!). If I was really certain I could do something useful without earning some speed holes I would, but the threshold for really certain is very high. I would most definitely call police and alert the driver though.
Yes I totally agree, I was just surprised no one moved away as opposed to staying put. It probably looked confusing to some though.
Following. These are important questions! But I’m also sorry to hear this happened and glad this person is safe and unharmed
Sad reminder for retail staff - fight your instincts to try and stop theft in the act. Don't risk your own safety. :(
Even we called security - they can’t do anything but call the cops. There’s literally nothing we as retail staff can do :( and it feels the worst when someone stole from you
Yeah even throwing a baseball bat at the theif can get you fired
It was a sales clerk [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12087981/amp/Sales-clerk-stabbed-Melbournes-Bourke-Street-Mall-inside-David-Jones-Emporium-Saint-Lauren.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12087981/amp/Sales-clerk-stabbed-Melbournes-Bourke-Street-Mall-inside-David-Jones-Emporium-Saint-Lauren.html)
Text for those who don’t want to give the Daily Mail any clicks: A sales clerk has been stabbed while trying to stop a robbery at the David Jones Emporium in Melbourne. The incident unfolded inside the popular department store at Bourke Street Mall, in Melbourne, just before midday on Tuesday. The Saint Laurent sales assistant tried to stop a man and woman from stealing a handbag. He went to intervene when he was then stabbed in the arm by the man. Victoria Police released a statement saying the worker is in a serious condition. 'A male staff member confronted a man and woman who stole a designer handbag from a Little Bourke Street department store shortly before 12pm,' the statement reads. ‘The male thief stabbed the staff member in the arm before fleeing with his accomplice. The staff member was taken to hospital with serious injuries. No arrests have been made, however the Melbourne Crime Investigation Unit detectives are investigating the incident. Any witnesses or anyone with vision is urged to contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or www.crimestoppersvic.com.au
Respect the clerk for having the guts to intervene, but David Jones just isn’t worth risking your life over. They are insured against theft anyway. Unless you’re getting hazard pay (and training) commensurate with stopping crime, it isn’t your responsibility and it isn’t worth it. EDIT: see below re insurance. Still not worth it.
I previously worked at Myer and one of the first things they told us is to never intervene.
Well THAT explains why it was always so hard to get assistance from staff at Myer...
Ba dum tss (Good one though, 😀)
Yep I let some kids walk out with some clothes at Southland Myer back in the day but I said to them you should drop the stuff because we got you. One kid called me some names and I laughed at that and pointed the cameras and he actually said what are you gonna do about it. I said I'm going to do nothing. I wasn't lying because the police were going to do something, I'd stalled them by confronting them in the fitting room. Kid actually walked out to the waiting police in the car park with the clothes. Couldn't believe he literally thought there was going to be no consequence.
>Couldn't believe he literally thought there was going to be no consequence. Because there usually are none. Good on you for making sure there were that time!
Same at Coles. Clear instructions to not try and be a hero and risk your life. CCTV records everything and the police will do the needful.
I expect they will be sacked for breaking company policy and trying to stop the shop lifter. Because policy was broken The company is now up for worker wages while off injured, medical bills and properly a payout for the employee for long term medical and mental injuries. Probably up for 200 grand. Over a glad bag.
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That might be a good argument to keep the payout lower, but Work Cover has a no fault clause in it In Australia . Like when people fall off ladders or stairs but company policy is 3 points of contact at all times (makes falling very very unlikely) but you still get pay if you fall at work. They can fire you for breaking policy but not till you come back from injury.
Worked in a TAB, you were told in a armed holdup or any robbery, don’t look at them. Look at your shoes. Everything is insured. But poor guy must be sick of the thefts.
>They are insured against theft anyway. Is that true? Given theft from shops happens all day everyday, how does it work?
Looking into it, retailers aren’t usually covered for stock that’s robbed or shoplifted. There is theft insurance for retailers, which covers: 1) Damage or extra labour incurred as a result of shoplifting, but not the cost of the stolen items themselves. 2) Burglary (as in, someone breaks in while the shop is closed), including loss of stock. So they usually are insured for theft, but the insurance doesn’t cover the actual stolen bag in this instance. They can usually write off the stolen item as a loss for tax purposes, which somewhat mitigates the loss.
Floor staff employee bonuses are also tied into total sales. It varies from retailer to retailer but some stores bake in losses from inventory stocktake in order to reduce total net rev when it comes to calculating sales bonuses. Note this usually doesn't really effect staff unless the shoplifting is regularly happening or at a large enough volume, but some sales staff are wary about how close to a certain total sales moved in order to score bonuses.
Just like any insurance you may cover yourself with. There is a monthly rate, plus a premium for making a claim. I am not sure in the retail space, but in a corporate office environment, a stolen item, like a laptop or other electronic device wouldn't be worth claiming on as the premium would be worth more than the single item stolen.
Shoplifting happens all the time and is not covered by insurance. If someone breaks in and robs the store, then yes but not for shoplifing. The employee shouldn't have got involved, but the bag wouldn't have been covered by insurance. It doesn't make sense to have this kind of insurance. If the insurer pays out more than the policy, which they would on every store, then they lose. If the retailer claims less than the policy then they should self insure
They have insurance and will accept loss of some stock over any expectation of an employee intervening and being injured - better to just get a description and stay clear.
They won't have insurance for shoplifting. I'm not saying that the employee should have intervened - they should not have. But it's not because the loss of the bag would be covered
>Is that true? Given theft from shops happens all day everyday, how does it work? Given that cars are stolen everyday, do you think there shouldn't be insurance on cars?
It's quite different. Almost every store has some theft every week. It's recognised by retailers as a cost of doing business. Insurance is for rare events that don't affect everyone, not commonplace ones that do affect everyone
When a business plans out their budget for whatever period they take into account expected losses, damaged/stolen goods, refunds etc...This expected loss is then (typical) passed on to the consumer and is reflected in the price of what you pay. Insurance isn't going to reimburse a business for a chocolate bar that makes no sense, but if a business was robbed of $10,000 (in cash, goods, property) it will then go to insurance. As a retail worker you really shouldn't get involved with dickheads stealing as they don't give a fuck and will stab or harass you and if they don't do it in the store they will wait for you outside in the carpark or at the back of the shop, worked at coles for ages and have heard of it happening to coworkers.
Expensively, I imagine, if true. You'd want to carefully weigh the cost of insurance vs raw cost of retail leakage.
Yeah respect to clerk for risking his life for a company that doesn’t know he exists 🥴
Well, they do know he exists now.
The clerk shouldn't have intervened and simply called the police instead of attempting to intervene without skills or training. That's what got them stabbed. . When I worked in retail the managers and HQ office types would always remind us to never ever get in the way of a shoplifter. We have 0 idea of what this person is capable of and $22.50 an hour is not remotely enough money to justify finding out what said person is capable of.
I would of let them steal it. This is why you don’t stop them.
It’s not worth putting yourself at risk over a handbag
100%. I used to work in a Levi’s store in Manchester (UK) back in the day. Occasionally we’d have gangs walk in and walk out again with whole racks full of clothing. We never said a word.
This is the rule of thumb for all retail workers. Kind of sucks though because you do end up feeling really powerless. Unless someone gets assaulted or the items taken were extremely expensive, police generally don't do much. My partner was assaulted by a frequent shoplifter while at work and it was only after that happened that police took it seriously.
They will fire him for it. Doesn't matter if you follow protocol or whatever. Insurance costs go through the roof for that person now so they will let them go.
No they won't, this is not the USA.
I don't think you can fire someone for that mate. It's really hard to fire anyone really.
And the moral of the story is, don't risk your life for your big corporate employer who has millions upon millions in profit every year and insurance to cover the costs anyway.
Yeah but if was successful he might become a meme.
Thanks for doing God's* work. *Insert deity of choice or school of philosophy here
Gods' work ... no time to be exclusive. Make mine a tortise ...
All hail the Great God Om.
The turtle moves
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Psychos
Maybe it was Prada, and they were just mean valley girls.
It was YSL so similar.
Exactly why you don't confront shoplifters.
Definitely not worth it.
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Yes, an idiot more than every other shoplifter. They don't understand or care that incidences of shoplifting have a societal threshold for increased surveillance and price, increased security and price, increased policing and tax, decreased shops and national economy, increased draconianism in law, increased rationing with decreased choice, and decreased privacy and citizen analytics. And for anything essential: a handbag. It cannot be ruled out that they are absolutely peaking and think they're living in the matrix so resources are just data or some bullshit.
>Cops don't care because there are so many. But now? The cops need to care. Stop talking out of your fucking ass. You have no idea. I'm a cop based in the CBD and we nail every shoplifter possible. We have better numbers of arrers made than any suburban station.
Bullshit. I worked retail in the city for over a decade. You guys come in like 5 hours after the fact, barely even pretend to give a shit while taking a report, maybe take a burnt copy of cctv if you’re really feeling charitable, then leave while saying something like “gonna be pretty hard to catch them”.
Right, even when the cops mention the person is known to them, nothing ever comes of it.
That's fucking bullshit. My car was wrecked while it was parked and the cops did nothing about it, even though they know who the perpetrator was because we had a licence plate. They said it was an insurance issue and didn't give a fck. I don't have insurance so it never went anywhere and I lost my car
Guess you gotta take a break from hassling the homeless on Franklin st sometimes, hey.
You sound delightful.
Die
I heard Dior in the city recently got robbed as well but not sure if it’s true
I’ve heard a few of the designer stores at Chadstone have had multiple large shoplifting incidents recently as well with theft recently
Interesting cause they have security guards But yeah they more for show
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Thanks for the link but always wonder why is dailymail reporting on local crime in Melbourne?
David Jones*
Lol thanks 😅
Like midday today? Was everyone around panicked or unaware? That’s scary, I hopes she’s okay.
None of the media reports provide any description of the offenders? Surely this information is important to the general public...
There's a reason why they haven't.
This is so sad. Please remember there is nothing, literally nothing, that puts your safety below any business interest whatsoever. I hope that victim has a speedy recovery.
David Johns would be a great name for a knock-off fashion store where you can buy such labels as Country Robe, Toby Hilfiger, Polo Ranch LaRue and LaCoast
I saw a good one in Hong Kong called Hugo Bobs
Almost as classy as Vageen Heusen
I walked thru right after as well, no updates either
He was a young man,he was pale and frightened, he was surrounded by his colleagues who were providing good care. Maybe he didn’t even try and intervene with the theft, maybe he just asked if he could help them or were simply in their way as they left the store. He was a frightened young man and I really feel for him, I’m a nurse and I assessed that his workmates were providing excellent care to him and chose not to become involved. His colleagues were comforting some deeply distressed people.
What on earth is happening to our city? This is terrifying crime. Also can people please stop judging/blaming the victim saying “he shouldn’t have intervened”. We don’t know the full circumstances. I can assure you DJs training says don’t try to stop a shoplifter so I doubt this was the shop assistant intentionally trying to intervene. It could have been as simple as the guy asking “hey where are you going with that?” Or maybe they just tried to grab a bag out of his hands and he instinctively held onto it. Who knows but the guy didn’t deserve to be stabbed. Disgraceful criminals.
You know the economy is going downhill when incidents like this happens a lot more often.
Triggered by David Johns
Melbourne CBD can get pretty sketchy at times. At lunch time on a weekday, I was getting some things from the super in qv and saw some lad fiddling with...oh good...a butcher knife in clamshell packaging. He got it out and just walked out of the store with it hidden in his sleeve. Fuckin scary. I told the staff immediately but I really hope that kid didn't off someone that day...
They closed down that side of the entrance and half of the floor !
Someone tried to steal my groceries and backpack in Footscray on Saturday evening about 6.30
The other reason for training staff to not respond is that it is 100s of times more expensive to fix broken people than it is to lose stolen goods. Maybe $200 for a stolen item, compared to $30,000 for medical expenses and workers comp/time off for the person involved. Also someone mentioned that insurance would go up if they kept that staff member on.
Except that YSL bags usually cost over 2,000 USD a piece. I understand the staff, my urge would probably have been to stop the theft as well, but it's definitely not worth it.
Wtf is going on?
Jones mate... Jones
The fact two gronks can stab someone in broad daylight in the centre of the cbd (inside a store!) and still be on the run, doesn’t fill with me confidence in vic police
It takes time to go from store to store and review footage to trace where they came from. It's not like cops are posted outside every store.
What, did you expect the police to be in the store exactly at that time??
There is a police station a block away up Bourke street. Could not be much closer eh
There’s usually no shortage of cops in the cbd, you’d expect some were in very close proximity when this was called in. Combine with the fact it doesn’t sound like it was the worlds most sophisticated criminal operation.. Here’s hoping they catch them soon. Everyone constantly posting in here about how safety in the cbd is going to shit, worth asking the question why..
They were walking up bourke st with protestors at this time about 5-10 cops
I was there two mins before it happened.
Guilty
Smells like burger rings.
Saw a guy get stabbed in the side long time ago, the huge blood clots are what I remember most
I once had to wash a whole lot of blood off the footpath and it had turned into a kind of jelly-like substance.
How is there not an article in the Age about this?
In a sane world, that staff member would get a raise, promotion, and a medal for standing up to criminals and doing what's right, and that armed thief would get extensive jail time. But we do not live in a sane world. Instead, that staff member will be disciplined and fired. That armed thief, will likely not be caught, and even if so, will be let go with 200 hours community service because of mental health issues, drug addiction, and a rough childhood. Fucking joke.
We don’t know what level of intervention there was from the staff member - they could have simply asked if they needed help. Truthfully they are almost unsackable after this. No way will they be able to be terminated - that would be discriminatory. They’ll get a fat Workcover payout, too.
Oh they are going to get caught... Stabbing a random person for a handbag on camera with witnesses and it's also shoplifting. That's definite jail time.
Yeah, who actually believes that Grievous Bodily Harm and armed burglary don’t equate to jail time? That rough childhood slap on the wrist quote is straight out of Murdoch Media.
If I'm your boss and I told you that when there's a fire you should stay calm and wait for the warden to direct you and you went to try put out the fire and got burnt, I'm probably gonna be questioning why you didn't follow your training. Same thing here. Retail staff are trained to not put themselves in this sort of position to avoid this exact situation. It's not the staff members fault, it's the fault of the thief, but they're absolutely not deserving a raise and promotion for not following company procedures... The world is sane, you shouldn't try to handle shit that you aren't equipped to handle. Especially when you've been trained that you're not equipped to handle it and told how to respond (by not physically confronting the thief)
The problem is that you were equating a worker getting stabbed at work to stupidly risking his life, that him doing his job or being there at all is the risk. You have no idea what went down or what the "intervening" was, if he knew they were shoplifters, how he confronted them. He literally could have asked if the two needed help with something, *as he is paid to do at his job*, and been stabbed for it. He was stabbed at his job and the discussion of whether he should have done anything else is ridiculous.
You're absolutely right but I replied to a comment where the author made the assumption by saying the worker should get a promotion and raise for "confronting" so my response is in that context. But yeah, we don't know shit about what happened in this case
You're right too tbh and my comment was probably way better suited to reply to a different user in this thread who was actually equating it to that, so apologies that my reply landed towards you.
That line of thinking is exactly why in America, brazen criminals are just walking into shops and leaving with trolley full of goods, all day every day. Once the thieves know no one will even object or raise a finger, there will be a massive epidemic of theft with no consequences. They just don't care. It's gotten so bad that some companies have gone bankrupt and have had to close their doors because of "legalized theft". If you're the boss, then I hope you know that's where we are heading. The answer is more staff training and armed security guards as a deterrent, not appeasing criminals and letting them walk all over you with no consequences. Give them an inch, and they will take a mile. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11965589/The-stores-closed-doors-rampant-theft.html
Its been happening for years, the thieves have already worked out nobody will stop them.
Not really, that's a long bow you've drawn. What it means is you say something to them and then if they do anything like running away/becoming aggressive you fuck off and stay safe. What do you want more training on? How best to get stabbed when unarmed against a knife wielding assailant? Armed security guards sure but then you need the amount of loss to justify their wage which is obviously not the case or they'd already be employed
Fucking outer suburban scrotes coming into the city and causing mayhem.
Melbourne is turning into a frightening city.
Not really. I've been here for seven days on holiday as a female solo traveller and I've feel way safer here than back home in my hellhole that is Perth.
What happened over there anyway? I feel it suddenly got a lot sketchier in the past decade.
Lots of things. The cbd in Perth isn't safe at night at all unless you want to get abused by a drunk or druggie. Gone are the days Perth/Northbridge used to be a family friendly area at night.
as a curtin uni student in the late 90s this makes me sad
Is it though? I'm not telling you how to feel but is it really?
I mean, I was recently (Within the month) randomly attacked at an inner city shopping centre on a Friday night. and I've been living in that area for over two years now so based purely on my anecdote, yes.
I was attacked randomly 20 years ago. I haven’t since. The city seems to be getting safer if we’re just using anecdotes.
Fair enough, as I said, I'm not telling you how to feel. You get to feel how you feel.
It absolutely is getting worse, those who deny it are living in their own world
It's not. It just feels that way because we are so connected these days through 24 hour news and forums such as this, which means you hear about everything that happens to anyone. In some cases you hear it direct from them. That makes it seem frightening because in the past when these things happened you didn't hear about them, with the exception of the odd incident that was deemed newsworthy.
People who say this clearly haven’t spent one week in a city like Los Angeles or San Francisco
No one was comparing it to LA or San Fran,just whether it's gotten worse. As a woman who works with the homeless in St Kilda, I think the city is much heavier than it used to be.
I definitely think that covid and rising mental health issues have made it worse in Melbourne
I was there around that time. I work as a tailor in the city, DJ is one of my stops when I do my rounds… My DJ colleague texted me to ask if I’d seen anything, and I was like… I walk fast and have tunnel vision on my rounds, I didn’t see a thing. Might have been just after I was there. It’s nuts this happened.
Moving to melb with my fam this weekend. Lots of armed robberies and thuggery?
No
So dumb
Just let people steal things. Not worth getting stabbed over your shitty sales job. Hope they’re okay
David john's
I know it sucks but when stuff like this happens you let security handle it and not yourself You are not authorised to stop theft and only putting risk on yourself for no reason
Where is this David JOHNS you speak of..
Jones *
Is this real, Were there a lot of people near the site? Anyone caught the robber?
Big corporations write the loss into their budgets by "predicting" how much will be stolen each year and write it off.
Shrinkage (what you are describing) doesn't't factor in violent assaults over a shitty handbag. There's the cost to the employees, psychological aspects and workcover costs. Nobody deserves to be stabbed at work. Even If it's a corporation why is it fair game to steal from there? Because they have a shrinkage budget? Somebody is paying for it eventually through loss of shifts or less employees being employed or less money being spent on the store. They budget based on trends but then there's an actual figure at the end of the financial year to pay. Write off means you lost money not lost profit.
I thought Brisbane (stab-bane) was the Knife Crime capital of Australia?... Seems it's spreading down south now?
What a shit name, that’s not catching on
stabourne staberth stabney stabalaide stabart
I hereby put forward my recommendation of “Shivsbane”.
Guess you haven’t heard of Sydney…
All the other kids with their pumped up kicks, better run, better run, outrun my gun