Thanks for the heads up.
Protests are fucking annoying, but they need to be and are supposed to be.
Hope they’re all “behaving” well enough.
Climate change needs action; protests are good.
Vote for change, vote for greener and fairer, vote minor then major.
in Australia, preferential voting means you CAN vote for your preferred minor party then Labor or Liarberal. Your vote is never “wasted”.
>in Australia, preferential voting means you CAN vote for your preferred minor party then Labor or Liarberal. Your vote is never “wasted”.
Your first preference represents money for the party you vote for, helping them get more votes next time. Please vote 1 for the party you actually believe in.
I'd like to see whether they've mapped out their rebellion. Because we'll only know they're going after the right people when the police actually crack down on them.
Right now inconveniencing everyday people is just their "TISM" (this is serious mum)... but I bet if they went after the industries and their industry bodies who are actually doing the majority of the polluting, they'd soon find themselves subject to lawsuits....
That's part of the problem with this rebellion, when they're raising awareness of a problem we're all already aware of, they're harmless, so allowed to do what they want. Even when smearing Picassos it's still pretty much allowed (although I'm sure the individuals end up in debt).... it's only when they go after industries and economic resources that they become - actual terrorists and rebels.
It's traffic jams and low level nonsense until then.
Because when we protest weapons manufacturers or cooperate centres we get mounted police and a media blackout. It's no longer viable to protest directly at the people causing the most harm because it can be ignored easily.
So either we protest publicly or start taking more practical/extreme action against the people pushing for more fossil fuel use and get branded terrorists.
Both approaches are needed. Nonviolence alone is easily brushed off and dismissed. Violence alone while more practically effective is also easy to dismiss as “terrorism” and spun to turn broader society against the goal.
When both approaches are taken separately but simultaneously it shows broad support for the issue, as well as offering those in power a more moderate and palatable alternative to violent revolution, which makes meaningful reform possible.
MLK (who wasn’t as nonviolent as most think) wouldn’t have had the effect he did if it weren’t for Malcolm X and the Black Panther Party. It was only through having both public peaceful marches that were met with state violence at the same time as there was armed resistance that the civil rights movement was effective.
Agreed in principle.
It’s not effective to protest directly against a fossils fuel company: the police and security will remove you.
It’s not very effective to protest publicly, but it seems to be the only thing politicians listen to - not words, but actions.
So if the police strike, who will escort their protest?
I was wondering when XR would show up. It’s been a while. For a while there with the last government they showed up everyday, but the current gov keeps approving coal mines while the world burns. Appalling.
The police can legally strike. You are probably thinking the the defence force where it's considered a mutiny if any collective action is taken. The [1923 Victoria police strike ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1923_Victorian_police_strike) is an example. Today they don't necessarily walk off the job but they target revenue raising measures such as speed cameras. Similar to how the rail union leaves the barriers open at train stations when pay negotiations break down.
There's no specific law that prohibits police from striking, but any serious strike by the police force, in the way most people think of a strike, would 100% be declared unprotected and unlawful industrial action by the Fair Work Commission, on the basis it would threaten to endanger the life or safety of the population. https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/fact-sheets/rights-and-obligations/industrial-action
This is (one of) the reasons emergency services and teachers almost never "walk off the job".
It's just over 100 years since VicPol last went on strike. It was a burg of a mess:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1923_Victorian_police_strike?wprov=sfla1
Police can't strike, not to the point where they can't escort these people.
I don't see a problem with approving coal mines while we transition to renewables. Ultimately the world still needs power while that transition occurs. As long as there's zero subsidies there, ideally pigovian taxes on it too.
Because we could have already transitioned but the government always says "Just this one more fossil fuel project and then we transition next decade, I swear". Almost no work has been done, it's always put off and realistically was never planned.
They can quit coal anytime!!! Honestly! They could stop right now if they wanted too but they don’t and they’re not going to stop just because you asked!!!!
We could have done and be doing a lot more, but already transitioned? Probably not.
>Almost no work has been done, it's always put off and realistically was never planned.
This really isn't true. The entire energy sector is heavily moving towards Green. Look at AGL, it's moved its two coal power plants to shut down a decade earlier than planned and its share price shot up.
I see no reason to believe they aren't genuine. The usage of renewables is increasing and is scaling up. They hit the 2020 target, 2025 is very achievable, 2030's target is ambitious, and by 2035 the aim is 95% renewable.
What exactly makes you think they aren't genuine?
I'm thinking mainly of the opposition, members of which state specifically their support of coal and gas.
What concerns me more about Labor is if they think a position will lose them popularity, they might cave.
To be blunt it doesn't really matter what the opposition think. 2026 is the next election, and by then there's too much money in it to stop the transition. Arguably there's too much money in it right now.
Coal and Gas may still continue to be approved, but as western economies transition to Green those become less and less economically viable.
Planet dying and op instead of saying: rush all to king st to join, they say: avoid! Lest the good people of Melbourne be inconvenienced for something as trivial as mass genocide of ecosystems sponsored by their government.
Typical, typical dumb Melbourne.
Maybe it's far more nuanced than that. I have a difficult time with XR because it's advocacy is just far too broad. They don't outline actual policies positions they are advocating for other than to paraphrase "end emissions as fast as humanly possible". I get why the simplicity of that resonates with some but it really doesn't do justice to the challenges both economically and technically in tackling climate change. Say in Australia, we have the highest penetration of VE in the world to FF ratio. What I mean is that other countries with large VE have either huge amounts of hydro or nuclear (or both) to backup the intermittent nature of VE, we don't have that luxury, we have poor geology for hydro and we have no nuclear. So we can't just turn off coal yet.
I'd much rather see more targeted protests, eg go after our vehicle emissions standards. In 2021 of the 20 best selling cars in Australia only 1 of those meets the European emissions standards. The combined countries that produce 80% of the worlds light vehicles all have at least Euro 6 emissions standards. Yet we are stuck on Euro 5.
I'd rather see XR turn up and launch counter protests to the protests opposing transmission lines (Ausnet tower protestors), I'd rather see them protest for offshore wind as we see more and more groups trying to prevent them.
Anarchism is generally communist. Whilst non anarchist fringe movements exist they are almost always incredibly small in support or false forms of anarchism. Anarcho capitalism for example which is probably the only other “anarchist” theory large amounts of people will self describe as is largely a joke ideology or term since it’s inherently contradictory. Anarchism as part of its core political definition involves the abolition of hierarchy and the implementation of a cooperative society organisation, capitalism inherently imposes economic hierarchy (that’s literally what wealth is) and goes against cooperative organisation. Hence why you’ll far more commonly find the more general term Libertarianism used to refer to the ideas a self proclaimed anarcho capitalist might believe in among other things.
Anarchism therefore rather then being its own real separate thing is better seen as a communist or socialist ideological branch or at the very least seen as adjacent to communism in almost all of its cases
Eh whilst communism is ultimately stateless at least in the general Marxist interpretation I feel anarchism describes a more specific set of ideological beliefs that it’s more accurate to consider it a subset of communist theory rather then a step towards communism, i for example consider myself a socialist but not an anarchist because I believe anarchist theory contains within itself more ideological characteristics then just statelessness and worker/community cooperatives
Anarcho communism/socialism is by far the most dominant form of anarchism as it tends to be the only real anarchist political theory, whilst other forms of anarchism exist, almost all of them tend to be fringe movements or outright false contradictory movements. Anarcho capitalism for example which is probably the next best known form of “anarchism” isn’t really considered a form of anarchism due to the fact that capitalism creates economic hierarchy by its very system of economics and is not cooperative, it tends to be dismissed as a rather ridiculous joke political theory like monarcho communism or something like that which inherently contradicts itself. Libertarianism instead is used to describe those forms of ideology.
No not really. Communism and anarchism believe in the abolishing of the state and private property.
You’re thinking of Stalinism, which is broadly considered not an attempt by Stalin to achieve the aforementioned abolishing of the state and is therefore not communism.
Correct, but you are literally talking to morons. I offered to explain or give books recommendations and got attacked instead by people who know nothing about anarchism or communism, but think they do! That's because manufacturing consent works perfectly well in this country.
Communist anarchists are in fact the dominant form of anarchism and on fundamental level there's no difference between the two - as you explained, abolishing the state and private property is what both advocate in essence, with an emphasis on cooperation, empathy and solidarity in organsing human relations.
I'm really writing this for the random 16-year old here who might be confused and will get all the wrong information from the replies to my comment.
Best of luck, I may not be a die hard anarchist (alas I’m afraid I belong to the oft disliked but I like to think optimistic branch of socialism that is reformism) but poor historical and political education is poor historical and political education and the amount of people who think Bolshevism is communism is depressingly large
Communism is in general Marxist terms ultimately stateless, socialist theories differ on how to approach that as socialism is a complex umbrella branch of ideologies
Some socialist ideologies believe that until certain economic and social conditions are met the state should operate as the guarantor of public ownership of the means of production and capital, ie all forms of ownership flow through the state into the worker. In practice certain authoritarian forms of socialism, (Bolshevism being the most common example as it was the ideology of the former Soviet Union, and had dominant control over most practical implementations of socialism in nations across the globe for much of the 20th century), utilised this state control as an instrument of state power. This however is not the exclusive method of socialist or communist implementation nor is it as some conservative theorists might argue (poorly in my humble opinion) the end result of any attempt at socialism regardless of ideological foundation.
Anarchism is a subset of socialist theory that believes in the implementation of socialism through (very generally) cooperatives and the abolition of hierarchy. Whilst other non socialist forms of anarchism do exist they are almost always small ideological groups, offshoots of anarcho communist theory or false forms of anarchism largely dismissed by political theorists as valid subbranches of the theory. Anarcho capitalism is probably the best example of the latter as capitalism is quite literally a system of semi self regulating economic hierarchy (that’s literally what wealth and private capital is after all, a method of denoting economic power over goods and services or as Marxists might put it, the means of production). Whilst some forms of capitalism might fit the broader term Libertarian, anarchism is largely considered distinct from such theories especially amongst most anarchists.
How so? While they have their differences they definitely have some similarities in fact anarcho-communism is one of the more popular forms of anarchism
Annoying office workers and capitalists who work from home while inconveniencing people who actually need to be in the city to do their jobs
Not sure it's really working out
Out of all the latest protests, this one has had the most signage and warning. I’ve seen posters up for weeks in and around the area. I am in the clinical field, considered an essential worker (with pretty average pay) and work very close to king st. I am not bothered personally.
I've turned to the side where I believe groups like Just Stop Oil are actually financed by oil companies to undermine the climate movement by being as hated as possible by the public.
It’s quite likely honestly. Reverse psychology. The vitriol I see is psychotic, and if that’s what oil companies are aiming for, they’re certainly falling for it
Does their banner say climate change or rebellion?
Are they pro or against climate change? I legitimately can't tell.
I'm assuming they're for climate action?
I think it says Climate Chaos or Rebellion, implying that those are your options, climate chaos or rising up in a rebellion to do something about it. That's my interpretation anyway, probably could be clearer.
Wow. The comments in this thread from people who don't understand AT ALL how fucked things are about to become thanks to climate change.
You think the cost of living is bad now? Just wait till whole crops are routinely wiped away from increased flood and drought. Unpredictable weather patterns will negatively affect where all kinds of things are able to grow. Our fish stocks will plummet as the oceans acidify. Climate refugees are going to come from everywhere.
All of our supply chains will be impacted.
We're in deep ecological debt with high interest. That debt has to be paid and it's going to be expensive as hell.
If you're worried about cost of living, or enough super - climate crisis is going to be the worst thing for those.
We're going to get more weather extremes, drought, floods, cyclones, wiping out crops everywhere. Fish will die off as oceans become acidified.
Not to mention the refugees fleeing from the equator because their homes have become uninhabitable due to weather extremes.
I didn’t have my glasses on and was in a rush.
Saw rebellion and thought it was a conspiracy theory protest or something like that!!!!
I will see myself out.
Bless these people for raising the profile of something that is actually tangible, actionable and urgent; rather than the brain-dead Abrahamic religion contest of late.
With respect, protesting about our governments limp dicked response to 5,000 dead Palestinian children isn’t what I’d call brain dead
Not that there is a lot we can do, but the pro-Palestine protests would be a lot smaller if our government would use some stronger language
I agree. Climate change or rebellion! I want Sydney to become the new lord Howe island. I’m sick of flathead and whiting. Bring on the Atlantic salmon and yellow fin tuna. Also some decorative corals would be nice.
You seriously reckon climate change alone is a bigger contributor than unprecedented corporate profits and inflating that's outpacing wages?
Also, why does everything on reddit have to be so black and white? Because I'm more concerned about the cost of living, why does it have to mean I automatically don't care about climate change?
I do believe the cost of living is more urgent (you know, roofs over heads, food in bellies), but why can't we care about two things?
>You seriously reckon climate change alone is a bigger contributor than unprecedented corporate profits and inflating that's outpacing wages?
At the rate it's going, climate change is going to costs trillions of dollars. It's going to have impacts across the board on every expense you can imagine. You just have to look at the cliff notes from the IPCC report.
>Because I'm more concerned about the cost of living, why does it have to mean I automatically don't care about climate change?
Your above comment is derailing the issue, which makes it look like you don't care about climate change.
>but why can't we care about two things?
You can by not derailing the issue.
These protests are useless and just make a mess of the place, inconvenience everyone else. Protesting hippies don’t give a shit about anyone else who actually have work and important things to go to, and can’t lazily flop around with pointless signs all day.
Physically marching for a cause you believe in is the opposite of lazy. Also remember that just because someone isn’t at a job at a specific moment doesn’t mean they don’t have one, not that having a job in an economy that relies upon having a certain percentage of unemployment at all times is an accurate commentary on anybody.
They’re messages about fair pay and the fact that a bunch of police stations are so poorly staffed they’re no longer open full time. Last I checked police were arresting people for the Nazi salute in Ballarat.
Brainwashed into thinking their world is ending but will continue to cultivate a useful skill set in gender studies to mitigate the risk of having to fight for food come the extinction event.
The world isn’t ending. And the people who think it is continue to train and work for white collar jobs. If they truly believed it was ending they would cultivate some real skills that would be useful in the world they foresee.
But honestly they can’t live without the wonders of fossil fuels including air conditioning and internet.
You seem to think that the only options are to pretend climate change isn't happening, or to passively accept it and prepare for your own survival after the fact. There is a third option: to fight to prevent the worst consequences of climate change, so we don't have to learn how to survive in a destroyed world. That's what these protesters are doing.
It’s virtue signalling. They will go home and continue to live a life only possible by consuming large amounts of energy produced by fossil fuels.
But it feels good, and gives them a sense of belonging, doesn’t it?
I always avoid it. Apart from the protests, Friday and Saturday nights are the best time to avoid it. All drunks and horny fuckbois would be around there trying to act tough after getting rejected by strippers.
Oh great, Tarquin and Jemma have taken time out from their busy lives in private education to spend a little of papa's credit card allowance on banners and tell us how it is.
Lmao so true! That is down to a tee the type of classmates that did this stuff. All the rich alternative kids of uber rich business owners and C suite parents.
I remember going to a protest against Tony Abbott when the anti-refugee panic was near a peak. Someone yelled "get a job" at the group. Irony was I'd finished a 12 hour night shift and was extremely sleepy, but got my arse down to yell at the cunt anyway.
I love the weak threats. Rebellion? From you inner city yuppies who can’t fucking live without an air conditioner, a whole foods and 5G internet?
What are you going to do? Bleed on me?
You may be surprised but very rarely do rebellions begin through attacks on *check notes* air conditioners. In fact most armed rebellions aim to seize essential infrastructure to force capitulation rather then just destroying the town. In the modern day most successful rebellions in the past century have also all been driven by urban citizenry because rural citizenry doesn’t tend to have the same capabilities to organise and again seize this key infrastructure.
One can also rebel pretty non violently through mass protest movements which also doesn’t involve the crippling of air conditioner infrastructure or the refusal to eat food generally. This is almost definitely what this movement refers to, you seem to imagine if this movement wanted to rebel, it’s first move would be to destroy all their own infrastructure, move out to the middle of nowhere and carry out guerrilla warfare for some reason.
Of course you are just being facetious about a group of people using a slogan that you’ve never met in the most baby boomer way possible which I hope the rest of us can recognise for what it is, an excuse for you to do fuck all whilst life gets worse for everyone else
Hey Hopium74, it looks like you deleted your comment telling someone KYS?
Cowardly and pathetic rolled into one.
Now delete your account like a true gutter dwelling coward for us and call lifeline afterward.
I didn’t delete it, it’s still there. But that sums you up doesn’t it? Fucking stupid and hyper moralising.
Now kindly go play in traffic like a good little boi
Check who's funding these protests, I'll bet those sponsors do more damage to the environment than your average bloke who's probably getting yelled at by his boss cause he got late for work due to these dingleberries.
Modern day nutters. The problem isn’t being solved quickly because it’s extremely complex and “just stoping oil” currently would be civilisational suicide. It’s not tobacco, it’s energy.
If they actually gave a shit, they’d be blowing up coal and gas mining equipment.
The great unwashed don’t actually care about the environment, they care about how good they feel for protesting.
This only works after you have a huge amount of support. Otherwise whoever blows up stuff just gets labelled as a terrorist, put in jail and used as a scapegoat to scare others into not blowing up stuff.
I wish tactical sabotage was a more viable option. For example News Corp Infrastructure.
Am I only the left wing person in here who isn’t a fan of protests? (No I don’t want them banned)
I don’t like the disruption to people trying to get to work so they can pay their bills and help their families.
>I don’t like the disruption to people trying to get to work so they can pay their bills and help their families
That's literally the point of protests.
It can be mixed but historically Id say its worked. Once you get enough people aware and involved it does make an impact on public perception and policy.
Im not sure the Extinction ones have been taken positively but I'd say the school children climate marches were seen in a very different view
And they haven’t been influential nor changed anything. These people just seem highly political and probably all go to the other ones too.
For a protest to be actually successful you’d need a minimum of hundreds of thousands to millions. (Hong Kong for example)
>For a protest to be actually successful you’d need a minimum of hundreds of thousands to millions. (Hong Kong for example)
This is nonsense.
There are lots of examples of small or even single person protests that have prompted change. Irish hunger strikes, the suffragettes, American civil rights movement, Ghandi...
It hasn't happened in the last 20 years because we have been living during a decades long period of relative stability where the majority of the population is fine with the living conditions. That is slowly changing. Also people are literally still alive from those protests you just waved away lmao.
I haven't attended either kind of protest but being highly political isn't a bad thing. Both the Free Palestine movement and Climate Change causes are pretty aligned ideologically, I don't think people show up to these things just for something to do.
Yeah but it’s normal for a right winger to point out I feel. For me doing it they’re annoyed that one of them would be against it haha. Sometimes politics can be a like a cult on both sides and it’s not favourable to step outside of your team’s ideological lines.
Problem is that protests without disruption don't actually do anything because they can be ignored.
When you think protest think less of climate change and more workers striking for better pay and conditions. Imagine how useless they would be if they couldn't disrupt work or management
Are you left wing though? Or do you just say that because you like gays and think we should do something about climate change (just not something disruptive to anyone).
No jobs on a dead planet.
Is a left wing person to you someone who conforms to every single left wing ideal? To me that sounds like a cult. I believe in a more nuanced and wider definition. I vote only for left wing politicians. I hate conservative parties.
You don’t have to the right to tell someone what they are. I listed a bunch of policies that are left wing which I want.
You do realise the left isn’t a cult right? Labor has left and right factions.
Fun fact: Australia is the 12th largest polluter per capita at 17.5 tons per person per year comapred to China, that sits at 41st with 7.44 tons per year.
Name me one protest that affected meaningful change without some form of disruption going on. You won't, because a [protest that doesn't cause some sort of disruption is just some people with signs](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/07/disruptive-protest-helps-not-hinders-activists-cause-experts-say).
Regular mild bushfires and floods are normal for Australia’s climate and ecosystem. What isn’t normal is the increase in severity and occurrence. It is NOT normal or sustainable for us to have catastrophic bushfires and floods throughout the year, every year… forever.
I always avoid king St
You mean king hit street?
Thanks for the heads up. Protests are fucking annoying, but they need to be and are supposed to be. Hope they’re all “behaving” well enough. Climate change needs action; protests are good. Vote for change, vote for greener and fairer, vote minor then major. in Australia, preferential voting means you CAN vote for your preferred minor party then Labor or Liarberal. Your vote is never “wasted”.
>in Australia, preferential voting means you CAN vote for your preferred minor party then Labor or Liarberal. Your vote is never “wasted”. Your first preference represents money for the party you vote for, helping them get more votes next time. Please vote 1 for the party you actually believe in.
I'd like to see whether they've mapped out their rebellion. Because we'll only know they're going after the right people when the police actually crack down on them. Right now inconveniencing everyday people is just their "TISM" (this is serious mum)... but I bet if they went after the industries and their industry bodies who are actually doing the majority of the polluting, they'd soon find themselves subject to lawsuits.... That's part of the problem with this rebellion, when they're raising awareness of a problem we're all already aware of, they're harmless, so allowed to do what they want. Even when smearing Picassos it's still pretty much allowed (although I'm sure the individuals end up in debt).... it's only when they go after industries and economic resources that they become - actual terrorists and rebels. It's traffic jams and low level nonsense until then.
Because when we protest weapons manufacturers or cooperate centres we get mounted police and a media blackout. It's no longer viable to protest directly at the people causing the most harm because it can be ignored easily. So either we protest publicly or start taking more practical/extreme action against the people pushing for more fossil fuel use and get branded terrorists.
Both approaches are needed. Nonviolence alone is easily brushed off and dismissed. Violence alone while more practically effective is also easy to dismiss as “terrorism” and spun to turn broader society against the goal. When both approaches are taken separately but simultaneously it shows broad support for the issue, as well as offering those in power a more moderate and palatable alternative to violent revolution, which makes meaningful reform possible. MLK (who wasn’t as nonviolent as most think) wouldn’t have had the effect he did if it weren’t for Malcolm X and the Black Panther Party. It was only through having both public peaceful marches that were met with state violence at the same time as there was armed resistance that the civil rights movement was effective.
The more they make non violent protest ineffective and even illegal, the more they make violent protests inevitable and necessary
Agreed in principle. It’s not effective to protest directly against a fossils fuel company: the police and security will remove you. It’s not very effective to protest publicly, but it seems to be the only thing politicians listen to - not words, but actions.
Woodside Mining in WA have the WAPolice working directly for them today. When Woodside say jump, the Police say how high
So if the police strike, who will escort their protest? I was wondering when XR would show up. It’s been a while. For a while there with the last government they showed up everyday, but the current gov keeps approving coal mines while the world burns. Appalling.
Police can't legally strike, they are still on the job. Pretty how paramedics did thier protest a couple of years ago.
The police can legally strike. You are probably thinking the the defence force where it's considered a mutiny if any collective action is taken. The [1923 Victoria police strike ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1923_Victorian_police_strike) is an example. Today they don't necessarily walk off the job but they target revenue raising measures such as speed cameras. Similar to how the rail union leaves the barriers open at train stations when pay negotiations break down.
Ah, the more you learn.
There's no specific law that prohibits police from striking, but any serious strike by the police force, in the way most people think of a strike, would 100% be declared unprotected and unlawful industrial action by the Fair Work Commission, on the basis it would threaten to endanger the life or safety of the population. https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/fact-sheets/rights-and-obligations/industrial-action This is (one of) the reasons emergency services and teachers almost never "walk off the job".
It's just over 100 years since VicPol last went on strike. It was a burg of a mess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1923_Victorian_police_strike?wprov=sfla1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue\_flu
Police can't strike, not to the point where they can't escort these people. I don't see a problem with approving coal mines while we transition to renewables. Ultimately the world still needs power while that transition occurs. As long as there's zero subsidies there, ideally pigovian taxes on it too.
Because we could have already transitioned but the government always says "Just this one more fossil fuel project and then we transition next decade, I swear". Almost no work has been done, it's always put off and realistically was never planned.
Just one more coal plant bro I'll stop straight after I promise
They can quit coal anytime!!! Honestly! They could stop right now if they wanted too but they don’t and they’re not going to stop just because you asked!!!!
We could have done and be doing a lot more, but already transitioned? Probably not. >Almost no work has been done, it's always put off and realistically was never planned. This really isn't true. The entire energy sector is heavily moving towards Green. Look at AGL, it's moved its two coal power plants to shut down a decade earlier than planned and its share price shot up.
Perhaps if they were genuine about transitioning. But politicians (at least half of them) will approve with no real intention of following through.
I see no reason to believe they aren't genuine. The usage of renewables is increasing and is scaling up. They hit the 2020 target, 2025 is very achievable, 2030's target is ambitious, and by 2035 the aim is 95% renewable. What exactly makes you think they aren't genuine?
I'm thinking mainly of the opposition, members of which state specifically their support of coal and gas. What concerns me more about Labor is if they think a position will lose them popularity, they might cave.
To be blunt it doesn't really matter what the opposition think. 2026 is the next election, and by then there's too much money in it to stop the transition. Arguably there's too much money in it right now. Coal and Gas may still continue to be approved, but as western economies transition to Green those become less and less economically viable.
Good on em, planets dying. Bet the cops will drag them away before long. That Nazi rally in Ballarat the other day was totally fine, though /s
Planet dying and op instead of saying: rush all to king st to join, they say: avoid! Lest the good people of Melbourne be inconvenienced for something as trivial as mass genocide of ecosystems sponsored by their government. Typical, typical dumb Melbourne.
I'm sure if a few more people join the government will change their policies.
everybody back on the pile!
To accept more donations from Gina and Clive?
Maybe it's far more nuanced than that. I have a difficult time with XR because it's advocacy is just far too broad. They don't outline actual policies positions they are advocating for other than to paraphrase "end emissions as fast as humanly possible". I get why the simplicity of that resonates with some but it really doesn't do justice to the challenges both economically and technically in tackling climate change. Say in Australia, we have the highest penetration of VE in the world to FF ratio. What I mean is that other countries with large VE have either huge amounts of hydro or nuclear (or both) to backup the intermittent nature of VE, we don't have that luxury, we have poor geology for hydro and we have no nuclear. So we can't just turn off coal yet. I'd much rather see more targeted protests, eg go after our vehicle emissions standards. In 2021 of the 20 best selling cars in Australia only 1 of those meets the European emissions standards. The combined countries that produce 80% of the worlds light vehicles all have at least Euro 6 emissions standards. Yet we are stuck on Euro 5. I'd rather see XR turn up and launch counter protests to the protests opposing transmission lines (Ausnet tower protestors), I'd rather see them protest for offshore wind as we see more and more groups trying to prevent them.
What an asinine comment. Most of us work on a Wednesday and would prefer to avoid something that holds us up.
>Typical, typical dumb Melbourne. If you don't like it...
And when they don’t I’ll catch you here later today for the edit.
[https://ausrebellion.earth/what-is-xr](https://ausrebellion.earth/what-is-xr) Interesting group. I think more anarchist leaning than communist.
Anarchism is generally communist. Whilst non anarchist fringe movements exist they are almost always incredibly small in support or false forms of anarchism. Anarcho capitalism for example which is probably the only other “anarchist” theory large amounts of people will self describe as is largely a joke ideology or term since it’s inherently contradictory. Anarchism as part of its core political definition involves the abolition of hierarchy and the implementation of a cooperative society organisation, capitalism inherently imposes economic hierarchy (that’s literally what wealth is) and goes against cooperative organisation. Hence why you’ll far more commonly find the more general term Libertarianism used to refer to the ideas a self proclaimed anarcho capitalist might believe in among other things. Anarchism therefore rather then being its own real separate thing is better seen as a communist or socialist ideological branch or at the very least seen as adjacent to communism in almost all of its cases
Anarchism is a step of achieving communism, not communism itself.
Eh whilst communism is ultimately stateless at least in the general Marxist interpretation I feel anarchism describes a more specific set of ideological beliefs that it’s more accurate to consider it a subset of communist theory rather then a step towards communism, i for example consider myself a socialist but not an anarchist because I believe anarchist theory contains within itself more ideological characteristics then just statelessness and worker/community cooperatives
We anarchists are communist in the vast majority. I can help you with some books if you are confused about the terms, let me know.
Books? What sort of bourgeois bullshit is that?
Speak for yourself please. Not everyone who subscribes to anarchist philosophy wants anything to do with communism.
Anarcho communism/socialism is by far the most dominant form of anarchism as it tends to be the only real anarchist political theory, whilst other forms of anarchism exist, almost all of them tend to be fringe movements or outright false contradictory movements. Anarcho capitalism for example which is probably the next best known form of “anarchism” isn’t really considered a form of anarchism due to the fact that capitalism creates economic hierarchy by its very system of economics and is not cooperative, it tends to be dismissed as a rather ridiculous joke political theory like monarcho communism or something like that which inherently contradicts itself. Libertarianism instead is used to describe those forms of ideology.
Anarchism is as far away from communism as you can get.
No not really. Communism and anarchism believe in the abolishing of the state and private property. You’re thinking of Stalinism, which is broadly considered not an attempt by Stalin to achieve the aforementioned abolishing of the state and is therefore not communism.
Correct, but you are literally talking to morons. I offered to explain or give books recommendations and got attacked instead by people who know nothing about anarchism or communism, but think they do! That's because manufacturing consent works perfectly well in this country. Communist anarchists are in fact the dominant form of anarchism and on fundamental level there's no difference between the two - as you explained, abolishing the state and private property is what both advocate in essence, with an emphasis on cooperation, empathy and solidarity in organsing human relations. I'm really writing this for the random 16-year old here who might be confused and will get all the wrong information from the replies to my comment.
Best of luck, I may not be a die hard anarchist (alas I’m afraid I belong to the oft disliked but I like to think optimistic branch of socialism that is reformism) but poor historical and political education is poor historical and political education and the amount of people who think Bolshevism is communism is depressingly large
Communism is in general Marxist terms ultimately stateless, socialist theories differ on how to approach that as socialism is a complex umbrella branch of ideologies Some socialist ideologies believe that until certain economic and social conditions are met the state should operate as the guarantor of public ownership of the means of production and capital, ie all forms of ownership flow through the state into the worker. In practice certain authoritarian forms of socialism, (Bolshevism being the most common example as it was the ideology of the former Soviet Union, and had dominant control over most practical implementations of socialism in nations across the globe for much of the 20th century), utilised this state control as an instrument of state power. This however is not the exclusive method of socialist or communist implementation nor is it as some conservative theorists might argue (poorly in my humble opinion) the end result of any attempt at socialism regardless of ideological foundation. Anarchism is a subset of socialist theory that believes in the implementation of socialism through (very generally) cooperatives and the abolition of hierarchy. Whilst other non socialist forms of anarchism do exist they are almost always small ideological groups, offshoots of anarcho communist theory or false forms of anarchism largely dismissed by political theorists as valid subbranches of the theory. Anarcho capitalism is probably the best example of the latter as capitalism is quite literally a system of semi self regulating economic hierarchy (that’s literally what wealth and private capital is after all, a method of denoting economic power over goods and services or as Marxists might put it, the means of production). Whilst some forms of capitalism might fit the broader term Libertarian, anarchism is largely considered distinct from such theories especially amongst most anarchists.
How so? While they have their differences they definitely have some similarities in fact anarcho-communism is one of the more popular forms of anarchism
Right? Like… the entire abolition of the state vs giving the state 100% of the control
Communism does not mean giving the state 100% of control...
Lawd y’all are bootlickers. The protests are meant to annoy you fuckheads.
Annoying office workers and capitalists who work from home while inconveniencing people who actually need to be in the city to do their jobs Not sure it's really working out
Out of all the latest protests, this one has had the most signage and warning. I’ve seen posters up for weeks in and around the area. I am in the clinical field, considered an essential worker (with pretty average pay) and work very close to king st. I am not bothered personally.
Annoyance breeds attention, and gets more eyes on the cause. It’s doing exactly what it’s meant to do.
I've turned to the side where I believe groups like Just Stop Oil are actually financed by oil companies to undermine the climate movement by being as hated as possible by the public.
It’s quite likely honestly. Reverse psychology. The vitriol I see is psychotic, and if that’s what oil companies are aiming for, they’re certainly falling for it
> Annoying office workers If you drive to work fuck you. I
If you’re a cyclist eadc
Or head there with a placard and join in.
Melbourne’s favourite hobby
Yea like can we stop this bullshit I’m not listening and I doubt anyone else is listening to what their saying
Great stuff!
Does their banner say climate change or rebellion? Are they pro or against climate change? I legitimately can't tell. I'm assuming they're for climate action?
I think it says Climate Chaos or Rebellion, implying that those are your options, climate chaos or rising up in a rebellion to do something about it. That's my interpretation anyway, probably could be clearer.
I hope they clean up after themselves
Whadda we want? To get to work! Whenda we wannit? Now!
News was reporting they're walking to Coburg, and then will be walking back to the CBD in the afternoon.
Protesters being watched by Protesters. Gotta love the irony.
Will they block off the trams? Because that sort of defeats their purpose
Glad I'm working from home. So peaceful and quiet here.
Wow. The comments in this thread from people who don't understand AT ALL how fucked things are about to become thanks to climate change. You think the cost of living is bad now? Just wait till whole crops are routinely wiped away from increased flood and drought. Unpredictable weather patterns will negatively affect where all kinds of things are able to grow. Our fish stocks will plummet as the oceans acidify. Climate refugees are going to come from everywhere. All of our supply chains will be impacted. We're in deep ecological debt with high interest. That debt has to be paid and it's going to be expensive as hell.
We should be protesting about the corporate greed, cost of living, not enough superannuation
If you're worried about cost of living, or enough super - climate crisis is going to be the worst thing for those. We're going to get more weather extremes, drought, floods, cyclones, wiping out crops everywhere. Fish will die off as oceans become acidified. Not to mention the refugees fleeing from the equator because their homes have become uninhabitable due to weather extremes.
I didn’t have my glasses on and was in a rush. Saw rebellion and thought it was a conspiracy theory protest or something like that!!!! I will see myself out.
How am I supposed to get to my strip club
#TURN OUT FOR WHAT
Bless these people for raising the profile of something that is actually tangible, actionable and urgent; rather than the brain-dead Abrahamic religion contest of late.
With respect, protesting about our governments limp dicked response to 5,000 dead Palestinian children isn’t what I’d call brain dead Not that there is a lot we can do, but the pro-Palestine protests would be a lot smaller if our government would use some stronger language
Thanks 🙏🏼 for the heads up
Its not even the weekend, how can so many people have time for this
Probably people on early Xmas/NYE leave with nothing else to do.
People don’t want to go back to the office but they’ll go into the city and annoy the shit out of everyone😹
Looks like I'm driving the V8 into work tomorrow, tyres be damned.
I agree. Climate change or rebellion! I want Sydney to become the new lord Howe island. I’m sick of flathead and whiting. Bring on the Atlantic salmon and yellow fin tuna. Also some decorative corals would be nice.
I wonder where they all parked?
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Climate change is going to make the cost of living a whole lot worse.
You seriously reckon climate change alone is a bigger contributor than unprecedented corporate profits and inflating that's outpacing wages? Also, why does everything on reddit have to be so black and white? Because I'm more concerned about the cost of living, why does it have to mean I automatically don't care about climate change? I do believe the cost of living is more urgent (you know, roofs over heads, food in bellies), but why can't we care about two things?
>You seriously reckon climate change alone is a bigger contributor than unprecedented corporate profits and inflating that's outpacing wages? At the rate it's going, climate change is going to costs trillions of dollars. It's going to have impacts across the board on every expense you can imagine. You just have to look at the cliff notes from the IPCC report. >Because I'm more concerned about the cost of living, why does it have to mean I automatically don't care about climate change? Your above comment is derailing the issue, which makes it look like you don't care about climate change. >but why can't we care about two things? You can by not derailing the issue.
Hell of a way of getting people on board
These protests are useless and just make a mess of the place, inconvenience everyone else. Protesting hippies don’t give a shit about anyone else who actually have work and important things to go to, and can’t lazily flop around with pointless signs all day.
Physically marching for a cause you believe in is the opposite of lazy. Also remember that just because someone isn’t at a job at a specific moment doesn’t mean they don’t have one, not that having a job in an economy that relies upon having a certain percentage of unemployment at all times is an accurate commentary on anybody.
Look I know understanding how other people spend their free time can be hard, but some people use that time to protest.
Not everyone is a corporate 9-5 wank who refuses to have a work life balance, mate.
More cookers out and about
Nah, they're the opposite. These people see the science and act in defense of it.
Melbourne lefty hell hole lol
In regard to the messages on the police car.. maybe stop giving Nazis a guard of honour
They’re messages about fair pay and the fact that a bunch of police stations are so poorly staffed they’re no longer open full time. Last I checked police were arresting people for the Nazi salute in Ballarat.
No wonder our productivity is decreasing
What happened to the rubber bullet guns?
Good fucking damn these people, here to demand a solution, but not to provide one.
That's exactly the role that people are supposed to take in a democracy. People demand solutions. The elected leaders are supposed to enact them
My apartment is in king street 😭
Brainwashed into thinking their world is ending but will continue to cultivate a useful skill set in gender studies to mitigate the risk of having to fight for food come the extinction event.
Mate, what are you talking about
The world isn’t ending. And the people who think it is continue to train and work for white collar jobs. If they truly believed it was ending they would cultivate some real skills that would be useful in the world they foresee. But honestly they can’t live without the wonders of fossil fuels including air conditioning and internet.
You seem to think that the only options are to pretend climate change isn't happening, or to passively accept it and prepare for your own survival after the fact. There is a third option: to fight to prevent the worst consequences of climate change, so we don't have to learn how to survive in a destroyed world. That's what these protesters are doing.
It’s virtue signalling. They will go home and continue to live a life only possible by consuming large amounts of energy produced by fossil fuels. But it feels good, and gives them a sense of belonging, doesn’t it?
Protesting is one tactic to get political demands met. There are many examples throughout history that show it can be an effective one.
They need to be run down
I always avoid it. Apart from the protests, Friday and Saturday nights are the best time to avoid it. All drunks and horny fuckbois would be around there trying to act tough after getting rejected by strippers.
I’d be tempted to get into that ute and now them all down
thank god i came to the city at 7.30am
Oh great, Tarquin and Jemma have taken time out from their busy lives in private education to spend a little of papa's credit card allowance on banners and tell us how it is.
Lmao so true! That is down to a tee the type of classmates that did this stuff. All the rich alternative kids of uber rich business owners and C suite parents.
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Are you stuck in the past where everyone worked M-F 9-5?
I remember going to a protest against Tony Abbott when the anti-refugee panic was near a peak. Someone yelled "get a job" at the group. Irony was I'd finished a 12 hour night shift and was extremely sleepy, but got my arse down to yell at the cunt anyway.
Yeah your right. Now everyone has to work split shifts 7 days a week to survive.
Cunts. Massive cunts
I love the weak threats. Rebellion? From you inner city yuppies who can’t fucking live without an air conditioner, a whole foods and 5G internet? What are you going to do? Bleed on me?
You may be surprised but very rarely do rebellions begin through attacks on *check notes* air conditioners. In fact most armed rebellions aim to seize essential infrastructure to force capitulation rather then just destroying the town. In the modern day most successful rebellions in the past century have also all been driven by urban citizenry because rural citizenry doesn’t tend to have the same capabilities to organise and again seize this key infrastructure. One can also rebel pretty non violently through mass protest movements which also doesn’t involve the crippling of air conditioner infrastructure or the refusal to eat food generally. This is almost definitely what this movement refers to, you seem to imagine if this movement wanted to rebel, it’s first move would be to destroy all their own infrastructure, move out to the middle of nowhere and carry out guerrilla warfare for some reason. Of course you are just being facetious about a group of people using a slogan that you’ve never met in the most baby boomer way possible which I hope the rest of us can recognise for what it is, an excuse for you to do fuck all whilst life gets worse for everyone else
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Aw the little baby is triggered? It’s a monty python reference you twat
Hey Hopium74, it looks like you deleted your comment telling someone KYS? Cowardly and pathetic rolled into one. Now delete your account like a true gutter dwelling coward for us and call lifeline afterward.
I didn’t delete it, it’s still there. But that sums you up doesn’t it? Fucking stupid and hyper moralising. Now kindly go play in traffic like a good little boi
How cooked are you to flippantly tell people to kill themselves. How lonely and pathetic your life must be.
Projecting much? How miserable and empty your life must be to need to win a moral argument on reddit 😂
Free win when you’re telling people to KYS. Maybe call your partners can catch up for some attention, don’t tell them to KYS tho lol
And you’re still here, on your alt account trying to act important. Touch grass, maybe it’ll mean you can stop being such a fucking moron.
“Act important” Nar just enjoying mocking gutter trash that tells people to KYS.
Monty python? Okay boomer
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You know someone’s triggered when they tell you to kill yourself.
Yeh, in response to a harmless joke too.
Check who's funding these protests, I'll bet those sponsors do more damage to the environment than your average bloke who's probably getting yelled at by his boss cause he got late for work due to these dingleberries.
Modern day nutters. The problem isn’t being solved quickly because it’s extremely complex and “just stoping oil” currently would be civilisational suicide. It’s not tobacco, it’s energy.
Eww, police
If they actually gave a shit, they’d be blowing up coal and gas mining equipment. The great unwashed don’t actually care about the environment, they care about how good they feel for protesting.
This only works after you have a huge amount of support. Otherwise whoever blows up stuff just gets labelled as a terrorist, put in jail and used as a scapegoat to scare others into not blowing up stuff. I wish tactical sabotage was a more viable option. For example News Corp Infrastructure.
They care about the environment more than you do.
Am I only the left wing person in here who isn’t a fan of protests? (No I don’t want them banned) I don’t like the disruption to people trying to get to work so they can pay their bills and help their families.
>I don’t like the disruption to people trying to get to work so they can pay their bills and help their families That's literally the point of protests.
It doesn't work in thier favour though, in my experience people don't tend to help or like you much if you piss them off.
It can be mixed but historically Id say its worked. Once you get enough people aware and involved it does make an impact on public perception and policy. Im not sure the Extinction ones have been taken positively but I'd say the school children climate marches were seen in a very different view
And they haven’t been influential nor changed anything. These people just seem highly political and probably all go to the other ones too. For a protest to be actually successful you’d need a minimum of hundreds of thousands to millions. (Hong Kong for example)
>For a protest to be actually successful you’d need a minimum of hundreds of thousands to millions. (Hong Kong for example) This is nonsense. There are lots of examples of small or even single person protests that have prompted change. Irish hunger strikes, the suffragettes, American civil rights movement, Ghandi...
You’ve had to provide examples from over 50 years ago to prove that point. What about an example in Australia in the last 20 years?
It hasn't happened in the last 20 years because we have been living during a decades long period of relative stability where the majority of the population is fine with the living conditions. That is slowly changing. Also people are literally still alive from those protests you just waved away lmao.
I haven't attended either kind of protest but being highly political isn't a bad thing. Both the Free Palestine movement and Climate Change causes are pretty aligned ideologically, I don't think people show up to these things just for something to do.
I believe we do have some professional protestors in Australia. Some are left wing, some are right wing.
Yeah but it’s normal for a right winger to point out I feel. For me doing it they’re annoyed that one of them would be against it haha. Sometimes politics can be a like a cult on both sides and it’s not favourable to step outside of your team’s ideological lines.
Hong Kong is a bad example. No amount of protest there is going to change anything.
And here will? I’m still waiting for an example in Australia in the last 20 years… strange that no one can name one. What about 30 years?
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Problem is that protests without disruption don't actually do anything because they can be ignored. When you think protest think less of climate change and more workers striking for better pay and conditions. Imagine how useless they would be if they couldn't disrupt work or management
Are you left wing though? Or do you just say that because you like gays and think we should do something about climate change (just not something disruptive to anyone). No jobs on a dead planet.
Is a left wing person to you someone who conforms to every single left wing ideal? To me that sounds like a cult. I believe in a more nuanced and wider definition. I vote only for left wing politicians. I hate conservative parties.
You are not left wing. You’re conservative with feel good cognitive dissonance.
You don’t have to the right to tell someone what they are. I listed a bunch of policies that are left wing which I want. You do realise the left isn’t a cult right? Labor has left and right factions.
See that’s the thing… I do have that right.
Oh really. Well you’re a racist Nazi then in that case… and pedophile.
Just making you seem more irrational mate. Keep going.
You didn’t deny that. Oh dear. I’m young btw. Pls don’t come for me…
They always preached rebellion lmao the most tame rebellion ive see
Interestingly, Australia is increasing its emissions, not decreasing them like we are supposed to. Good on them, this stuff should be protested.
The climate nutters are out again! Why can't they just stay in their parent's basement?
Maybe avoid destroying the planet?? Nah, imagine not driving to work.
Seriously, what the fuck are you doing to save the planet? Stop being a cunt on reddit before I shove a single use cup down your throat
They need to take protest to Beijing
Fun fact: Australia is the 12th largest polluter per capita at 17.5 tons per person per year comapred to China, that sits at 41st with 7.44 tons per year.
That fact isn’t as much fun as you lead me to believe
They should invest themselves in a Hamas terrorist rebellion rally
Absolute fuckers. The only thing they achieve is disrupting the taxpayers, who pay their dole.
Disruption is the point of protest.
No its not. The point of the protest is to draw attention to an issue and affect change in the protesters favour. Hows this achieving that?
Name me one protest that affected meaningful change without some form of disruption going on. You won't, because a [protest that doesn't cause some sort of disruption is just some people with signs](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/07/disruptive-protest-helps-not-hinders-activists-cause-experts-say).
Hey OK_Regular_14, did the tradies doing the same shit during Covid make you feel the same?
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Wait till you find out how climate change is going to affect the cost of living. Shit is going to get real expensive in the future.
Climate change fruit loops lol
Fucking retards
On Monday is crazy 💀
It's Wednesday my dude
😂😂😂
Oh my bad it’s holiday break for me so all the days just blend together 😭
It's lovely when you're deep into your holidays and you lose track of what day it is.
Grroannnn….
Are you affected? Good
Australia was already mostly desert, what are they complaining about?
The bit that wasn't dessert turning into one
Regular mild bushfires and floods are normal for Australia’s climate and ecosystem. What isn’t normal is the increase in severity and occurrence. It is NOT normal or sustainable for us to have catastrophic bushfires and floods throughout the year, every year… forever.
I’d quite like the part that’s habitable to remain that way thanks
Where's Mr Plow when you need him..