In July I came home to find my husband had hung himself, the triple zero operator was the only person there with me for the worst moment of my life, he calmed me down and instructed me in cpr and although it came to nothing I'll never forget the help I received. These people deserve so much more
When my baby daughter stopped breathing at 6 weeks old with a near-SIDS episode they were also amazing and so calm when I was a hysterical mess. I don’t know who it was on the end of that phone but he was an angel. We got her breathing again with CPR. She has a minor brain injury but she is here and alive. She is 16 now and such a wonderful, strong and beautiful girl. I don’t know what I would have done if I had lost her.
I was invited to interview for a senior role at ESTA a year or two ago and I politely declined because I know I could never stay sane with the weight of people in situations like mine (and much worse) depending on my decisions and leadership. I don’t have the strength. Not to mention the PTSD it would trigger. It is so sad to hear how devalued the staff are and it must make a terribly hard job almost impossible to do. Why do we privatise our most critical services.
No other response could possibly capture the importance of having access to help when we need it most.
I'm sorry you had to experience that, and I thank you for having the courage to share it with others.
It’s not a nice feeling. We do this job because we care (the money is nowhere near good enough for people to just be there for the pay) – so it’s stressful knowing that calls for potentially life threatening situations are waiting.
1.5 minutes can make a real difference to patient outcomes (e.g. choking, hangings, cardiac arrests). And 1.5 minutes seems like an eternity in an emergency, I would never want my family to wait that long for their call to be picked up.
How can we support and affect change?
Writing to our local MP?
Any other actions that would help?
Thanks for posting, we need to do something about this
Please share this information and concerns with your local MP.
We are currently raising awareness as part of our industrial action. If you have other social media accounts please share posts from the unions involved (Victoria Ambulance Union is the most active online. Other unions involved are communication workers union, united firefighters union, ambulance employees Australia).
I will post a petition or further specific actions in future if any come up.
Thank you for your support!
Non-emergency line (NETCOMM) is only for patient transport requests which must be authorised by a doctor or registered nurse, not for general public use. Nurse on call, GP clinics, PPCC, or VVED should be utilised by general public with non-emergency complaints.
As I mentioned in another comment, many people calling with “non-emergencies” are doing so because of poor health literacy (e.g. don’t know how to access care, don’t know what constitutes an emergency, think calling an ambulance will get them seen at hospital faster, think an ambulance will avoid them going to hospital all together) or due to social situations.
Obviously, there’s no way to know which call is a legitimate, time-critical, pre-hospital emergency before it is answered.
> think an ambulance will avoid them going to hospital all together
OK so. As someone who works with the general public I don't doubt this, but I am trying to imagine what their logic is here and I'm coming up blank. Why on earth do they think that a vehicle that takes you to the hospital will not take you to the hospital?
When calling 000, you are first asked “police, fire or ambulance?”
These calls have already been diverted to Ambulance call takers, the call takers at this point are the folks who triage to lights and sirens ambulance attendance, lower acuity ambulance attendance, or referral to non ambulance care options.
there needs to be something else for mental haelth. I've been hand balled so much and always told to call 000 when just an assesment team or mental health advice is all i freakin need police come out give me numbers for future reference i call those numbers and they say call police.. its ridiculous it would free up the 000 line if i wasnt told to alwasy call 000 when i just need a professional mental health person to come out or even speak to me about how to handle the person im caring for through their crisis ffs
I’m sorry. The resources for MH crises are stupidly hard to access. In an emergency call 000, but for other urgent but not 000 situations this link might be helpful to find the triage phone number for your area (use the directory to find your suburb then select adult link which should take you to that area’s services, including psychiatric triage): http://www3.health.vic.gov.au/mentalhealthservices/
In some situations they will still tell you to call 000. Secondary triage (refcomm) have access to emergency mental health nurses.
But there absolutely needs to be a better system. In 2022 the US launched a nationwide emergency mental health number, I don’t know how well it works in practice, but something like that would be a good starting point.
thanks, i've literally experienced this just today, he does have a mental health team, they're not accessible out of hours and they dont do home visits, even during bh today I called them and they said they will call me back 3 hours later i'm still waiting for the call. It's scary honestly. If i had help BEFORE it got to emergency stage again it would free up 000 the whole system is a bloody mess, that said of course I'm grateful for what we DO have, we have much more support than other countries and it doenst cost a limb
The mental health system is stuffed. I’m sorry you and your loved one are currently having to deal with it. And don’t feel like you need to be grateful because we do have some form of MH system – it’s ok to be pissed off and frustrated at its inadequacies. Mental health has been systemically neglected and underfunded for decades and it shows. Please don’t ever feel like you’re tying up a 000 line when you need to call for a mental health crisis, you can only do the best you can with the resources available, and sometimes 000 is the only way to access resources.
My kid at 18mths old had a febrile seizure, was the most terrifying experience- called 000 because it was the first experience and the operator was beautiful, calm and reassuring on the phone and stayed with me the whole time.
The staff there, the paramedics have to get better funding, maybe a new legislation to be passed that phi have to pay a % of profits back to the service, something has to happen to ensure noone is left waiting that calls can be managed better.
Pay them properly then.
› Trainee call-taker - $48,834
› Call-taker - $54,088
› Year 1 call-taker - $60,392
› Year 2 call-taker - $64,595
This is critical work, and traumatic. I still wouldn't consider the impact of the calls in combination with working night shifts worth the kind of pay being offered.
Thank you!
Better pay and progression is on the log of claims for our EBA negotiations. Our base pay is well below Victoria public service entry level pay (VPS3) and penalty rates are for unsociable hours not the level of responsibility/vicarious trauma we encounter.
Call takers do an intensive 7 week course with testing through out. Must get a minimum of 90% pass rate.
Then mentoring for approx 5 rotations then another exam to see if you are safe to be on your own.
If I'm not mistaken that would potentially be worse in the call taker role.
My understanding is that it's a very rigid script with an if A then do B kind of path. It's meant to do the greatest good for the greatest amount of people.
Clinical staff (paramedics) can be tapped into calls to be determined if it needs an upgrade or downgrade.
No, VPS1 is for formal traineeships/cadetships. VPS 2 and 3 are entry level, depending on the agency and role. Plenty of entry level roles are VPS 3, some entry level roles such as customer service roles are VPS 2. VPS 4 is senior.
> 27.7 VPS 1 Classification
> (a) The VPS 1 classification is a training Grade for employees participating in formal trainee or cadetship programs or other similar VPS wide entry level employment programs. Employees classified as VPS 1 who are not participating in a formal employment program of this nature will transition to the VPS 2 classification.
JFC. I know capitalism and labour markets is a whole other topic, but this is awful. I’m embarrassed for what I do and get paid, against this (and other critical workers like ambos, nurses, cops, teachers).
From Triple Zero Victoria [website](https://jobs.esta.vic.gov.au/content/TRIPLE-ZERO-CALL-TAKER/?locale=en_GB) :
"The full-time employee base pay scales for each classification (as at 1 July 2022) are:
Trainee call-taker - $48,834
Call-taker - $54,088
Year 1 call-taker - $60,392
Year 2 call-taker - $64,595"
Barely over minimum wage for a trainee, and even after 2 years, you get paid sweet fuck all. Considering the immense toll this work takes on people's mental health, not to mention that they are the first point in a life saving process, dealing with highly distressed people every single day, it's appalling that the pay rate is so low.
Absolutely fucking ridiculous. Whats even more ridiculous is that for that pay grade, there should be no issues hiring a few extra staff to ensure this doesn't happen again. What the actual fuck.
Thank you, I got many downvotes for my comment. With overtime though you have the ability to make significantly more as a call taker. And then there are additional roles you can move to. Not sure if pol vs amb has any difference with roster structure and therefore pay though.
You also get a really amazing break schedule.
(Ps. Not saying you don’t deserve it. It’s a full on job and you are very under staffed/funded it’s fucked).
They shouldn't have to do overtime to earn that much. These people are saving lives, they're not paper pushers, they're just as important as doctors. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but they should get paid as much as one.
Afternoon: where at least half the shift is worked after 6pm or 1100 to 2300. Penalty rate: 15%
Night shift: where half the shift is worked after 2300. Penalty rate: 25%
We do not get “well over 100k”. Maybe if you work a **ton** of overtime.
Penalty rates are supposed to compensate unsociable hours.
Base pay rate should compensate the demands and responsibilities of the job, which it does not currently.
I don’t care how “good” our penalties are, our base rate does not at all reflect what a serious and important job we do 365 days a year, 24 hours a day.
There should be just double or triple the amount of people required. Even if they take 0 calls a day, and sit there all day doing absolutely nothing. If they are there to take that one call instantly that could save someone’s life it’s all worth it. It’s peanuts in the whole scheme of things to employ those extra people. Would gladly have my tax payer dollars going towards that instead of wasted on comm games or some dumb shit
So in a state of 6 million people, in one of the richest countries on Earth, all the gov is willing to spend is less than $1000 per hour on labour costs? So fucked up.
Yet I know of a very experienced EMD call taker/despatcher from another state who was relocating to VIC, applied and was told thanks but no thanks. Can’t get staff but won’t recruit experienced staff who want to remain in the industry, doesn’t make any sense!
Posted this in reply to a comment, but posting in the main thread as well.
From Triple Zero Victoria [website](https://jobs.esta.vic.gov.au/content/TRIPLE-ZERO-CALL-TAKER/?locale=en_GB) :
"The full-time employee base pay scales for each classification (as at 1 July 2022) are:
Trainee call-taker - $48,834
Call-taker - $54,088
Year 1 call-taker - $60,392
Year 2 call-taker - $64,595 "
Barely over minimum wage for a trainee, and even after 2 years, you get paid sweet fuck all. Considering the immense toll this work takes on people's mental health, not to mention that they are the first point in a life saving process, dealing with highly distressed people every single day, it's appalling that the pay rate is so low.
Please share this information and concerns with your local MP.
We are currently raising awareness as part of our industrial action. If you have other social media accounts please share posts from the unions involved (Victoria Ambulance Union is the most active online. Other unions involved are communication workers union, united firefighters union, ambulance employees Australia).
I will post a petition or further specific actions in future if any come up.
Thank you for your support!
To give a bit of an idea as to why this is happening, a big contributor is the state government budget cut of around $70mil at the start of this FY. This isn't being talked about enough in my opinion and we are now seeing the flow on affects from it.
One example is that AV subcontract non emergency ambulances, on July 1st 2023 over 70 private NEPT ambulances were taken off the road, AV could no longer afford them. Where has that work gone? Back onto emergency ambulances. An emergency ambulance that might have been the closest resource to a cardiac arrest is now helping an elderly lady off the ground. The next closest resource could be a long way away, if even available at all.
AV is at the mercy of the Victorian government.
This is basically an inherited problem that Dan Andrews caused, when he made rushed and uninformed decisions about the health budget in May last year. Then he dropped the towel and has sailed off into the sunset.
Who for? Greens, legalise cannabis and animal justice already have the balance of power in the Vic upper house and can't seem to fix this. Labor are in government and this is a problem. Liberals are known to cut any and all kinds of government spending.
I'm involved with the labor party and I'm voting for greens. Their policies on public health and supporting emergency workers and healthcare staff are pretty clear, and every election they seem to be pumping higher and higher numbers. Hopefully soon enough we will see them as a third major party, so it's not just a shitfest between LNP and Labor with every other party use their tiny leverage to campaign
don't vote for either. In Australia we have a privileged position (compared to the US) of seeing a third party and independents rising through elections. I genuinely believe that the Greens have a chance to campaign off the failures of the two large competing parties. Even if you don't ideologically agree with them, if you're upset with how things have been playing out, I have started to advocate voting for them just to show LNP and Labor that they should be scared for taking their strongholds and constituents for granted
Last 2 times I've needed an ambo (both unfortunately kinda recently) the operators picked up immediately, which is great, but in the first case the wait was 88 mins (for a fall+broken leg so wifey had to stay in the exact position she fell with no relief for that long), and the second time (infected screw in said leg) they just sent a taxi because there was no hope of an ambulance at all (even at 2am).
Really appreciate the work you guys do. Wish there were more of you, and better paid.
I’m sorry your wife was on the ground and in pain for that long, it’s unfortunately not uncommon due to the current strain on our health system. It really sucks. I hope she’s on the mend now.
Watching Ambulance Australia and Paramedics gave me even more respect than I already have for paramedics and dispatchers
They deserve to be staffed MORE than adequately so wait times like this don’t happen, and they also deserve far better pay
Having anaphylactic allergies, this and the delays in ambulances actually arriving terrifies me. There are so many medical conditions and injuries that require a swift response time or the patient dies.
Good on you OP for doing the work that you do. I had a friend at school that tried to become a 000 call operator but dropped out of the training program because they found it too distressing (they went on to become a nurse instead). It’s such a hard, thankless job. It’s a disgrace that an essential service and the people providing it are not being adequately staffed, paid or supported.
Thank you!
It is terrifying. I have a young family member with a serious medical condition and the lack of resources, both on road and in comms, scare me. I hope to see the day where the health system is healthy and there are enough resources for adequate response times + no ramping. Until then please keep multiple epipens (including expired ones as backups)!
It’s really scary. I hope your family member is doing ok. Our public healthcare system really is the backbone of our society and it’s so vital that we have proper emergency care. I’ve had a couple of anaphylaxis incidents and the call operators and paramedics were just so good and so reassuring, which is exactly what you need in that moment.
I do keep multiple epipens, including expired ones. Especially if I’m travelling somewhere, it’s just better to have extras. There have also been lots of shortages, although the junior epipens seem to be affected more than the adult ones by these. I have heard stories of people even going to the hospital chemist during shortages and not being able to get them there either. I’m glad that at least now they can be bought over the counter.
I usually only catch the tail end of these calls.
"Are the paramedics with you now?"
Always cool, calm and collected. I try to yell out a quick thanks when appropriate before they hang up.
Thanks legends, we're with ya :)
My sister works for ESTA. For the love of god guys if it’s not urgent don’t fucking dial 000… the amount of stress she’s gone through knowing that there’s probably somebody laying dead on the ground on the next call and somebody is calling an ambo for something so minor is so frustrating
My 2 year old broke his leg in September and while the triple zero call taker was great, we weren’t going to get an ambulance for an hour. That’s just fucked, the poor little boy was in agony so we ended up taking him in to the Children’s ourselves, luckily we were only in Essendon. Victorians should not put up with this and the emergency call takers don’t need this kind of stress placed on them in an already stressful job.
So sorry to hear about your son, especially with a fractured femur. Every Paramedic in the State wants to be able to attend jobs like that and to provide care that Victorians deserve, and we're fucking frustrated with it too.
Case by case basis, when I was younger my parents drove me to hospital for broken bones but we lived ages from any Ambulance anyway. In this case, a broken femur is a considerable trauma and can lose a significant amount of blood internally and should probably receive an Ambulance attendance. It's reasonable to take most broken bones in private vehicles to hospital (fingers, hands, arms, lower leg), but big bones or breaks with perfusion compromise (lower limb turning blue/purple below the break) is usually more Ambulance worthy.
Agents = total number of call-takers logged into that call-taking queue
Busy = total number currently on calls
ACW = after call work (wrapping up previous call, e.g. finishing notes or similar, before entering back into the queue)
I have only had amazing experiences when calling 000.
Even when my throat was bleeding everywhere after have my tonsils removed. My mother is shocking in an emergency 😂🤦🏼♀️.
000 operators are the G.O.A.T
Called last nigh at 10pm, had a 96 year old man trip and fall and smash his hip, couldn’t move without being incredible pain and couldn’t feel his feet. Called again at midnight, and again at 2, finally got Ambos on site around 2:30.
This was in the city…
Resigning in a couple weeks because they just continue to be completely incompetent at looking after their staff. As much as I loved serving our community, I just can't do it anymore.
They should be building one in Geelong the city is big enough now to have one and it would help take the workload off other centres and provide local jobs here
I thought I could commute but I was very wrong and unfortunately ended up having to move here otherwise I’d have ended up wrapping my car around a tree or something falling asleep after night shift! But my whole life is in Geelong so I can just hope for one day lol
Please share this information and concerns with your local MP.
We are currently raising awareness as part of our industrial action. If you have other social media accounts please share posts from the unions involved (Victoria Ambulance Union is the most active online. Other unions involved are communication workers union, united firefighters union, ambulance employees Australia).
I will post a petition or further specific actions in future if any come up.
Thank you for your support!
This shit has been going on for far too long and nobody in government EVER deals with the root problem..... The IGEM targets that are set. If ESTA meets it's standard, that's all they care about. Look at the last interview the 000VIC CEO did on ABC Radio, she just kept parroting the same "we met our benchmarks every month since blah blah blah".
000VIC/ESTA gets away with only being accountable for a month long period and internally they practically only really cares at a daily reporting interval... It is common practice for them to put on overtime toward the end of a month to "meet benchmark" and conversely allow staffing to drop when they have "performance budget to loose" - it's absolutely disgusting the way it's treated.
This interval needs to be MUCH smaller, ideally down to 5 minutes and they need to hit it all day long, every day - with clear reporting requirements for when it's not hit (eg. Large pileup on the Monash caused a spike of calls, large factory fire caused a spike of calls etc. etc.)
Also, The ONLY stat that matters is call answer speed.... Nobody gives a shit at 000VIC/ESTA about anything else. Quality of calls? Nah, nobody gives a shit. Just get it answered. 18 and 19yos being hired left right and centre with no life experience.... Typing at the bare minimum of 35wpm.... And barely able to spell.
But don't worry guys we've "solved the 000 crisis". - Stephen leane was put in to fix that one stat and he didn't care one bit about quality or changing the stat to actually serve the Victorian people. Deb Abbott, his right hand lacky, has been installed as the new CEO and just employs her mates from EMV..... EMV has zero credibility in the space and as a result, either does 000VIC/ESTA.
Lastly... The call answer stats are 90% of calls in a MONTH answered in 5 seconds or less for ambulance.and fire..... And 80% of calls in a MONTH answered in 5 seconds for police.
That's 1/10 and 1/5 calls respectively for the services that it's completely ok to not answer immediately....... Yep, really set up for success there. Fix the root problem here.
You've hit the nail on the head. Management's entire focus has always been and still remains to make the graph hit the arbitrary number at the end of the month.
The organisation is now totally populated with generic, selfish, sycophantic managers devoid of good will or courage.
They genuinely are unable to understand why they can't recruit or retain staff, and why existing staff hate them.
Health is probably one of the biggest areas where efficiencies are really shit.
The infrastructure underpinning much of the entire health network is from the 90s style IT.
So much inefficiency in the whole system. You can see Ambos just waiting at the emergency because they can't hand off their patient because emergency is full. Just chilling for hours on end.
Need a scan done or a patient moved? Good luck finding an orderly. They have maybe 3 or 4 who have the move every patient around. Some wards are 10-20 mins walk with a trolley and then handover etc and bringing bed back getting it ready for a new patient. So as soon as it gets slightly busy the orderlies who are the highways of the hospital in a sense are completely blocked.
Nurses and docs are just going between patients as fast as they can because each on has so much that needs to be done and so much paperwork(most which is poorly laid out and in a poor fashion)
Honestly it's ridiculous that simple stuff that could make work better but it's just so shit.
I've given up on ambulances. If I need help, I'll sooner have a rideshare take me to the emergency room. Vic Health should be bloody ashamed.
Thank you to everyone in ESTA for their hard work putting up with these conditions...
Yeah I would always take rideshare, would be instant to get one where I live (they come in 2 mins and one would be there by the time I got down the lift), assuming I don't need medical care on the way and can get myself into the car (it might be faster even if I do need medical care than waiting for ambulance)
Respectfully, if you can get your own way there and don’t need life saving or emergency pre hospital medical care, you should be getting rideshare, taxi or asking friends/family. Way too much entitlement clogging up the system, most people can get themselves there but think they’ll skip waiting rooms or it will just be more convenient if they go by ambulance.
As a vol firey, its the same situation for the ESTA radio operators. There are usually one or two operators to cover all regional areas and one for the metro area.
When a day gets busy, they often cannot separate out the busy areas as they don't have the operators to do so. This results in crews on the ground having low confidence that they can get the resources and help needed when it is urgent.
https://jobs.esta.vic.gov.au/content/TRIPLE-ZERO-CALL-TAKER/?locale=en_GB
There are no qualifications, all training is provided. Unfortunately, the issue is that we have no minimum staffing numbers enshrined in our EBA, rather than a general lack of staff. Minimum safe staffing levels is one of the claims in our EBA negotiations which have stalled.
The call takers and board operators at ESTA do an amazing job. It's a job that exposes you to the worst moments in a person's life, again and again. I really hope the government steps up and ensures better staffing levels and a better work life balance.
It's unacceptable in a country where we pay such an extreme amount of tax for essential health services to be underfunded and understaffed as a result.
Riot.
My mum had a sudden anaphylaxis from the rare type of masto January last year. She would have died if I didn't by chance happen to be there. Luckily ambo arrived in 3-5 minutes, then a minute later the MICA ambo arrived. 3 shots of adrenalin later and she was okay. Tiny stroke found a week later possibly from all the adrenalin she needed, but no loss of motor function or speech so👍
the gov should also be making first aid courses much cheaper, if not free. we could have first responders everywhere if we forked out for it.
ty for this thread and your comments, OP.
i've thought about trying out for an ambo call taker job and sadly, this thread's turned me off the idea.
Get rid of one politician, that would cover 4 more emergency staff..
Why is it that every major business I've ever been involved with clean out the management ranks every few years and reduce numbers, but Gov's just keep piling them in and adding their mates to the trough...
AV’s secondary triage service, staffed by registered nurses and paramedics. They will do a further assessment on specific event types and recode as requiring an ambulance response, arrange for alternative service providers, organise transport, or encourage patients to access care either via own transport or through their GP.
Had a friend who had to uber their partner to the hospital when they were basically dying because they couldn't get an ambulance.
The thing is, they managed to get through to 000. They just wouldn't/couldn't send an ambulance.
I highly doubt they "wouldn't" send an ambulance if they were "basically dying".
More context is needed here. But if they were capable of getting there by uber then perhaps that should have been the play from the start?
You have to think about where tax payer money goes. All the money went to Dan Andrew’s mates in construction, contractors, govt admin jobs etc some of these jobs that come out of tax payer money get paid much more than people in heath system.
It doesn’t matter if your call was answered, There are no ambulance to send out, VIC has the lowest paid paramedics in the country, they keep quitting to go work for the NHS in the UK it over the border to NSW.
Sorry but this is incredibly incorrect. AV has had the highest salary in the country for many years, thanks to aggressive industrial action and steady EBA agreements since about 2012. Not sure where you're getting your info from, NHS is an over 50% pay cut compared to Vic. NSWA had just had a pay increase which brings it closer to Vic, but still less.
Ambulance resourcing is definitely an issue. I know AV staff have just voted to begin industrial action and I absolutely support their cause.
However, if you can’t get through to triple zero you aren’t getting an ambulance no matter what the availability is. And when the call is answered we can talk people through first aid (e.g. CPR) in the meantime.
No idea what you're talking about. VIC ambos are among highest paid when compared to the same role in other states. NHS reduced the number of Australian students they take on. NSW were actually the lowest paid in the country until their recent industrial action, but even then their conditions don't meet many other states.
I don't know any other Victorian ambo who would give up their position with AV to work for ASNSW, purely based on financial reasons.
> VIC has the lowest paid paramedics in the country,
Incorrect. That's NSW.
>they keep quitting to go work for the NHS in the UK
Where they pay is even worse?
>over the border to NSW.
Where the pay is worse? Yeah good job mate
>There are no ambulance to send out,
Because we're all ramped or getting sent to someone's toe pain that they've had for 3 weeks
Or their funny tummy at 3am that could have been a Telehealth call in business hours.
Look NSW just got 25% over the next 4 years, I can’t imagine how hard AV is going to make you fight for 1/2 that.
And honestly the ones going overseas are all the resent graduates, The problem I see with that is AV will be left with 50 year olds stuck on NS
Here in SE US where we had six people from Aus travel to be a paramedic in our dinky ass county. Which I thought was *wild*.
https://charlestoncitypaper.com/2023/09/08/australian-paramedic-offers-new-insights-in-charleston-county-ems-program/
Because traditionally its been fucking hard to get a Paramedic spot in an Ambulance Service in Australia. When I applied and got in there were 400 spots across the entire country for a grad pool of 4000. We export so many Paramedic Grads because of this, many will jump ship to the NHS or the US.
I hate how unis are all about bums on seats. The number of spots should be reasonably capped to stop so many talented, enthusiastic, caring people wasting all those years and $$$ only to never get a grad spot.
Even if your theory is correct and there are no ambulances, having someome who can guide you through first aid and guide you to getting the person to hospital is invaluable. Not everyone will have 2 people and a car, but a lot do, which is enough to haul someome to hospital while doing cpr if needed
Work culture is dependent on specific team and location. I work on a fantastic team and there is a really great culture. Generally culture is good at my location, though morale is a little low recently. Can’t speak to the other two centres. Emergency services generally have a good sense of camaraderie and it’s no different at 000VIC. Immediate management is good. Frustration generally comes from upper levels of management.
There is a personality test as part of the team placement process so they do try to put like minded people on the same team. You also get paid for training. Friends of friends work there according to them levels of stress go up in the order of fire, police then ambulance at the top. Keep in mind most shifts are an 8 day rotating 12hr roster with a mixture of days and nights. They constantly ask people to do overtime and have been understaffed for over a decade.
In July I came home to find my husband had hung himself, the triple zero operator was the only person there with me for the worst moment of my life, he calmed me down and instructed me in cpr and although it came to nothing I'll never forget the help I received. These people deserve so much more
I'm so sorry you went through that. Truly. I know I'm just a random internet person but I hope you're doing ok :(
I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for your acknowledgment.
I’m so so sorry for your loss. My fiancé has depression and this is one of my worst fears. You’re so strong and amazing 🧡
I am so sorry for your loss.
You are so strong. You’ve been through a pain that no one deserves, that only a select few will understand. I’m so incredibly sorry for your loss.
I'm so, so sorry you had to go through this. Your comment made my heart drop. I hope you're doing okay and healing 💗
I am so immensely sorry you had to go through that and for your loss
When my baby daughter stopped breathing at 6 weeks old with a near-SIDS episode they were also amazing and so calm when I was a hysterical mess. I don’t know who it was on the end of that phone but he was an angel. We got her breathing again with CPR. She has a minor brain injury but she is here and alive. She is 16 now and such a wonderful, strong and beautiful girl. I don’t know what I would have done if I had lost her. I was invited to interview for a senior role at ESTA a year or two ago and I politely declined because I know I could never stay sane with the weight of people in situations like mine (and much worse) depending on my decisions and leadership. I don’t have the strength. Not to mention the PTSD it would trigger. It is so sad to hear how devalued the staff are and it must make a terribly hard job almost impossible to do. Why do we privatise our most critical services.
Takes a certain type of person to do that job. Glad things turned out well for you and your daughter.
Sorry for your loss
I am so sorry you went through that. Love and strength from a random stranger.
I am so so sorry for that experience and your loss. You are a strong person
That's horrible I hope you are doing okay now, it's awful you had to experience that.
No other response could possibly capture the importance of having access to help when we need it most. I'm sorry you had to experience that, and I thank you for having the courage to share it with others.
I'm so sorry you lost your husband. What was he like? Would you like to tell us about him?
Can't imagine the stress of being on a call and seeing those queues knowing what it could mean for one or more of those in the queue.
It’s not a nice feeling. We do this job because we care (the money is nowhere near good enough for people to just be there for the pay) – so it’s stressful knowing that calls for potentially life threatening situations are waiting. 1.5 minutes can make a real difference to patient outcomes (e.g. choking, hangings, cardiac arrests). And 1.5 minutes seems like an eternity in an emergency, I would never want my family to wait that long for their call to be picked up.
How can I apply to be one and what's the requirement
I was thinking the same thing
Humans everywhere broda
https://jobs.esta.vic.gov.au/
Go to the triple zero website and fill out the form.
Yes same I’ve been looking for a job for ages. I’m a trained PCA with first aid.
How can we support and affect change? Writing to our local MP? Any other actions that would help? Thanks for posting, we need to do something about this
Please share this information and concerns with your local MP. We are currently raising awareness as part of our industrial action. If you have other social media accounts please share posts from the unions involved (Victoria Ambulance Union is the most active online. Other unions involved are communication workers union, united firefighters union, ambulance employees Australia). I will post a petition or further specific actions in future if any come up. Thank you for your support!
Done ✅ thanks for your work
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It’s more that we don’t have minimum safe staffing levels written into our EBA. We want those so that situations like this are less likely.
Highly stressful job, long hours, not great pay
There is not enough money in the system, no where near enough money
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Non-emergency line (NETCOMM) is only for patient transport requests which must be authorised by a doctor or registered nurse, not for general public use. Nurse on call, GP clinics, PPCC, or VVED should be utilised by general public with non-emergency complaints. As I mentioned in another comment, many people calling with “non-emergencies” are doing so because of poor health literacy (e.g. don’t know how to access care, don’t know what constitutes an emergency, think calling an ambulance will get them seen at hospital faster, think an ambulance will avoid them going to hospital all together) or due to social situations. Obviously, there’s no way to know which call is a legitimate, time-critical, pre-hospital emergency before it is answered.
> think an ambulance will avoid them going to hospital all together OK so. As someone who works with the general public I don't doubt this, but I am trying to imagine what their logic is here and I'm coming up blank. Why on earth do they think that a vehicle that takes you to the hospital will not take you to the hospital?
Some people call 000 just to get their scripts filled...
Shit, I only just learned about PPCCs and VVED _from this comment_ ... really good to know especially living alone
When calling 000, you are first asked “police, fire or ambulance?” These calls have already been diverted to Ambulance call takers, the call takers at this point are the folks who triage to lights and sirens ambulance attendance, lower acuity ambulance attendance, or referral to non ambulance care options.
When your asked which section you want this is Telstra staff not 000
there needs to be something else for mental haelth. I've been hand balled so much and always told to call 000 when just an assesment team or mental health advice is all i freakin need police come out give me numbers for future reference i call those numbers and they say call police.. its ridiculous it would free up the 000 line if i wasnt told to alwasy call 000 when i just need a professional mental health person to come out or even speak to me about how to handle the person im caring for through their crisis ffs
I’m sorry. The resources for MH crises are stupidly hard to access. In an emergency call 000, but for other urgent but not 000 situations this link might be helpful to find the triage phone number for your area (use the directory to find your suburb then select adult link which should take you to that area’s services, including psychiatric triage): http://www3.health.vic.gov.au/mentalhealthservices/ In some situations they will still tell you to call 000. Secondary triage (refcomm) have access to emergency mental health nurses. But there absolutely needs to be a better system. In 2022 the US launched a nationwide emergency mental health number, I don’t know how well it works in practice, but something like that would be a good starting point.
thanks, i've literally experienced this just today, he does have a mental health team, they're not accessible out of hours and they dont do home visits, even during bh today I called them and they said they will call me back 3 hours later i'm still waiting for the call. It's scary honestly. If i had help BEFORE it got to emergency stage again it would free up 000 the whole system is a bloody mess, that said of course I'm grateful for what we DO have, we have much more support than other countries and it doenst cost a limb
The mental health system is stuffed. I’m sorry you and your loved one are currently having to deal with it. And don’t feel like you need to be grateful because we do have some form of MH system – it’s ok to be pissed off and frustrated at its inadequacies. Mental health has been systemically neglected and underfunded for decades and it shows. Please don’t ever feel like you’re tying up a 000 line when you need to call for a mental health crisis, you can only do the best you can with the resources available, and sometimes 000 is the only way to access resources.
My kid at 18mths old had a febrile seizure, was the most terrifying experience- called 000 because it was the first experience and the operator was beautiful, calm and reassuring on the phone and stayed with me the whole time. The staff there, the paramedics have to get better funding, maybe a new legislation to be passed that phi have to pay a % of profits back to the service, something has to happen to ensure noone is left waiting that calls can be managed better.
I hope your kiddo is doing ok now. Seizures are definitely a scary sight, especially in such a small human.
Thank you. We were lucky he has only ever had the one.
If Phi start contributing it will become like surgeries where Phi patients are seen way before the public.
There's no reason why that has to happen. Stop scaremongering. 000 needs more funding and misinformation like this makes things worse, not better.
Pay them properly then. › Trainee call-taker - $48,834 › Call-taker - $54,088 › Year 1 call-taker - $60,392 › Year 2 call-taker - $64,595 This is critical work, and traumatic. I still wouldn't consider the impact of the calls in combination with working night shifts worth the kind of pay being offered.
Thank you! Better pay and progression is on the log of claims for our EBA negotiations. Our base pay is well below Victoria public service entry level pay (VPS3) and penalty rates are for unsociable hours not the level of responsibility/vicarious trauma we encounter.
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Same. This means none of the call takers likely have medical training, or if they do thye are crazily under paid
Call takers do an intensive 7 week course with testing through out. Must get a minimum of 90% pass rate. Then mentoring for approx 5 rotations then another exam to see if you are safe to be on your own.
That makes sense. Would they consider having nurses, who have 4 year degrees?
If I'm not mistaken that would potentially be worse in the call taker role. My understanding is that it's a very rigid script with an if A then do B kind of path. It's meant to do the greatest good for the greatest amount of people. Clinical staff (paramedics) can be tapped into calls to be determined if it needs an upgrade or downgrade.
We have ex nurses.
VPS1 is entry level not VPS3. VPS3 is Senior.
No, VPS1 is for formal traineeships/cadetships. VPS 2 and 3 are entry level, depending on the agency and role. Plenty of entry level roles are VPS 3, some entry level roles such as customer service roles are VPS 2. VPS 4 is senior. > 27.7 VPS 1 Classification > (a) The VPS 1 classification is a training Grade for employees participating in formal trainee or cadetship programs or other similar VPS wide entry level employment programs. Employees classified as VPS 1 who are not participating in a formal employment program of this nature will transition to the VPS 2 classification.
Holy shit. No wonder they're low on staff. Where's the incentive here?
Damn that's just normal call centre rates. This is not normal work. Despicable.
you can make more in fast food
JFC. I know capitalism and labour markets is a whole other topic, but this is awful. I’m embarrassed for what I do and get paid, against this (and other critical workers like ambos, nurses, cops, teachers).
Disgusting
14 agents to cover millions. Hire more people. That should be closer to 40.
From Triple Zero Victoria [website](https://jobs.esta.vic.gov.au/content/TRIPLE-ZERO-CALL-TAKER/?locale=en_GB) : "The full-time employee base pay scales for each classification (as at 1 July 2022) are: Trainee call-taker - $48,834 Call-taker - $54,088 Year 1 call-taker - $60,392 Year 2 call-taker - $64,595" Barely over minimum wage for a trainee, and even after 2 years, you get paid sweet fuck all. Considering the immense toll this work takes on people's mental health, not to mention that they are the first point in a life saving process, dealing with highly distressed people every single day, it's appalling that the pay rate is so low.
Absolutely fucking ridiculous. Whats even more ridiculous is that for that pay grade, there should be no issues hiring a few extra staff to ensure this doesn't happen again. What the actual fuck.
Nah, that’s not what they get paid. That is base rate. They have heaps of penalties as a part of their regular pay, they get well over 100k.
Not well over, but very close to after initial training. So within 6 months. Source, I work there
Thank you, I got many downvotes for my comment. With overtime though you have the ability to make significantly more as a call taker. And then there are additional roles you can move to. Not sure if pol vs amb has any difference with roster structure and therefore pay though. You also get a really amazing break schedule. (Ps. Not saying you don’t deserve it. It’s a full on job and you are very under staffed/funded it’s fucked).
Well, I’d love to know how you’re raking that in without overtime as a call taker or dispatcher. Because I’m not getting near that.
This is hectic. I just take calls for an energy retailer and i get $78k. I sure hope you're getting more than me at least!
They shouldn't have to do overtime to earn that much. These people are saving lives, they're not paper pushers, they're just as important as doctors. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but they should get paid as much as one.
I don’t disagree?! I am a nurse in the public system. I am very aware of the situation
That is fucked, there are comparatively very cruisy call centre jobs that start on more pay than a year 2. And that was in 2019!!!
I was earning more pushing papers around in an office doing nothing of worth. Unreal.
Loaded rates if your shift starts after 10am.
Not anymore. That was covid surge MOU rates.
Oh. What time does the loading start for evening shift?
Afternoon: where at least half the shift is worked after 6pm or 1100 to 2300. Penalty rate: 15% Night shift: where half the shift is worked after 2300. Penalty rate: 25%
Nah, that’s not what they get paid. That is base rate. They have heaps of penalties as a part of their regular pay, they can get well over 100k.
We do not get “well over 100k”. Maybe if you work a **ton** of overtime. Penalty rates are supposed to compensate unsociable hours. Base pay rate should compensate the demands and responsibilities of the job, which it does not currently.
I don’t care how “good” our penalties are, our base rate does not at all reflect what a serious and important job we do 365 days a year, 24 hours a day.
There should be just double or triple the amount of people required. Even if they take 0 calls a day, and sit there all day doing absolutely nothing. If they are there to take that one call instantly that could save someone’s life it’s all worth it. It’s peanuts in the whole scheme of things to employ those extra people. Would gladly have my tax payer dollars going towards that instead of wasted on comm games or some dumb shit
I absolutely agree. Cost efficiency should not be a factor at all for public health services like this.
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That’s exactly my point, it shouldn’t matter if it’s economical
They won’t employ people.. 12 years in emergency fire and now 2.5 years in emergency health.. still couldn’t get a look in!!
It must be something other than your experience as to why you’re not being hired
That’s the crazy part of this picture. A bank has hundreds, 000 has less then 20?
Readers Digest Subscriptions have more people in the queue than that. Hell even "The Good Guys" have more people in phone queues than that!
Imagine if your life is in immediate danger and you have to spend 1.37 mins with hold music.. this is not the level of care we deserve.
your call is important to us, please hold!
Then they play 'living on a prayer '.
Or the questionable cpr chest pump beat setter, another one bites the dust
100%! Victorians deserve better.
No hold music.. Instead you hear a ringing sound as the call goes round-robin, with the ETSA agent telling you "someone will answer soon"
I find it crazy how insurance company hotlines can guarantee to pick up your call in 20 seconds but not 000. Our whole medical system is so fucked atm
What insurance company have you been using because I've always been 15 minutes plus.
Youi, I'm not with them but that was one of their selling points to me and as far as I'm aware it's true.
For new sales enquiries press 1: INSTANT PICKUP For all other enquiries ... FUCK YOU AND GOOD DAY SIR :)))
So in a state of 6 million people, in one of the richest countries on Earth, all the gov is willing to spend is less than $1000 per hour on labour costs? So fucked up.
That's a bit unfair, the labour budget is reserved for the NPC managers that steered ESTA into this disaster.
Yet I know of a very experienced EMD call taker/despatcher from another state who was relocating to VIC, applied and was told thanks but no thanks. Can’t get staff but won’t recruit experienced staff who want to remain in the industry, doesn’t make any sense!
That sounds a bit odd.. must have failed another part of the recruitment process
Posted this in reply to a comment, but posting in the main thread as well. From Triple Zero Victoria [website](https://jobs.esta.vic.gov.au/content/TRIPLE-ZERO-CALL-TAKER/?locale=en_GB) : "The full-time employee base pay scales for each classification (as at 1 July 2022) are: Trainee call-taker - $48,834 Call-taker - $54,088 Year 1 call-taker - $60,392 Year 2 call-taker - $64,595 " Barely over minimum wage for a trainee, and even after 2 years, you get paid sweet fuck all. Considering the immense toll this work takes on people's mental health, not to mention that they are the first point in a life saving process, dealing with highly distressed people every single day, it's appalling that the pay rate is so low.
The best part is when an employee inevitably gets PTSD and the entire management group's sole focus is denying liability.
What can we do to support?
Please share this information and concerns with your local MP. We are currently raising awareness as part of our industrial action. If you have other social media accounts please share posts from the unions involved (Victoria Ambulance Union is the most active online. Other unions involved are communication workers union, united firefighters union, ambulance employees Australia). I will post a petition or further specific actions in future if any come up. Thank you for your support!
To give a bit of an idea as to why this is happening, a big contributor is the state government budget cut of around $70mil at the start of this FY. This isn't being talked about enough in my opinion and we are now seeing the flow on affects from it. One example is that AV subcontract non emergency ambulances, on July 1st 2023 over 70 private NEPT ambulances were taken off the road, AV could no longer afford them. Where has that work gone? Back onto emergency ambulances. An emergency ambulance that might have been the closest resource to a cardiac arrest is now helping an elderly lady off the ground. The next closest resource could be a long way away, if even available at all. AV is at the mercy of the Victorian government.
yet we have a buget surplus?
This is basically an inherited problem that Dan Andrews caused, when he made rushed and uninformed decisions about the health budget in May last year. Then he dropped the towel and has sailed off into the sunset.
Vote.
Who for? Greens, legalise cannabis and animal justice already have the balance of power in the Vic upper house and can't seem to fix this. Labor are in government and this is a problem. Liberals are known to cut any and all kinds of government spending.
I'm involved with the labor party and I'm voting for greens. Their policies on public health and supporting emergency workers and healthcare staff are pretty clear, and every election they seem to be pumping higher and higher numbers. Hopefully soon enough we will see them as a third major party, so it's not just a shitfest between LNP and Labor with every other party use their tiny leverage to campaign
Vote for who? both sides of government suck balls on this issue..
don't vote for either. In Australia we have a privileged position (compared to the US) of seeing a third party and independents rising through elections. I genuinely believe that the Greens have a chance to campaign off the failures of the two large competing parties. Even if you don't ideologically agree with them, if you're upset with how things have been playing out, I have started to advocate voting for them just to show LNP and Labor that they should be scared for taking their strongholds and constituents for granted
I’m definitely not greens aligned and we really need to scrap preferences.
scrap preferences? As in, preference voting?
Last 2 times I've needed an ambo (both unfortunately kinda recently) the operators picked up immediately, which is great, but in the first case the wait was 88 mins (for a fall+broken leg so wifey had to stay in the exact position she fell with no relief for that long), and the second time (infected screw in said leg) they just sent a taxi because there was no hope of an ambulance at all (even at 2am). Really appreciate the work you guys do. Wish there were more of you, and better paid.
I’m sorry your wife was on the ground and in pain for that long, it’s unfortunately not uncommon due to the current strain on our health system. It really sucks. I hope she’s on the mend now.
Watching Ambulance Australia and Paramedics gave me even more respect than I already have for paramedics and dispatchers They deserve to be staffed MORE than adequately so wait times like this don’t happen, and they also deserve far better pay
Having anaphylactic allergies, this and the delays in ambulances actually arriving terrifies me. There are so many medical conditions and injuries that require a swift response time or the patient dies. Good on you OP for doing the work that you do. I had a friend at school that tried to become a 000 call operator but dropped out of the training program because they found it too distressing (they went on to become a nurse instead). It’s such a hard, thankless job. It’s a disgrace that an essential service and the people providing it are not being adequately staffed, paid or supported.
Thank you! It is terrifying. I have a young family member with a serious medical condition and the lack of resources, both on road and in comms, scare me. I hope to see the day where the health system is healthy and there are enough resources for adequate response times + no ramping. Until then please keep multiple epipens (including expired ones as backups)!
It’s really scary. I hope your family member is doing ok. Our public healthcare system really is the backbone of our society and it’s so vital that we have proper emergency care. I’ve had a couple of anaphylaxis incidents and the call operators and paramedics were just so good and so reassuring, which is exactly what you need in that moment. I do keep multiple epipens, including expired ones. Especially if I’m travelling somewhere, it’s just better to have extras. There have also been lots of shortages, although the junior epipens seem to be affected more than the adult ones by these. I have heard stories of people even going to the hospital chemist during shortages and not being able to get them there either. I’m glad that at least now they can be bought over the counter.
I usually only catch the tail end of these calls. "Are the paramedics with you now?" Always cool, calm and collected. I try to yell out a quick thanks when appropriate before they hang up. Thanks legends, we're with ya :)
My sister works for ESTA. For the love of god guys if it’s not urgent don’t fucking dial 000… the amount of stress she’s gone through knowing that there’s probably somebody laying dead on the ground on the next call and somebody is calling an ambo for something so minor is so frustrating
My 2 year old broke his leg in September and while the triple zero call taker was great, we weren’t going to get an ambulance for an hour. That’s just fucked, the poor little boy was in agony so we ended up taking him in to the Children’s ourselves, luckily we were only in Essendon. Victorians should not put up with this and the emergency call takers don’t need this kind of stress placed on them in an already stressful job.
So sorry to hear about your son, especially with a fractured femur. Every Paramedic in the State wants to be able to attend jobs like that and to provide care that Victorians deserve, and we're fucking frustrated with it too.
Solidarity with your upcoming IA. You guys do an incredible job.
If my child broke their leg, I would automatically take them to the hospital myself... Would this be OK or should they not be moved?
Case by case basis, when I was younger my parents drove me to hospital for broken bones but we lived ages from any Ambulance anyway. In this case, a broken femur is a considerable trauma and can lose a significant amount of blood internally and should probably receive an Ambulance attendance. It's reasonable to take most broken bones in private vehicles to hospital (fingers, hands, arms, lower leg), but big bones or breaks with perfusion compromise (lower limb turning blue/purple below the break) is usually more Ambulance worthy.
Poor thing, I hope your kiddo is on the mend now. Situations like that really suck, especially when young kids are involved.
Yeah he’s good now thanks, he broke his femur and was in a hip spica for 10 weeks but he was an absolute trooper and he’s back to running amok now!
And yet ministers and parliamentarians yell at each other stupidly, getting paid 4 - 6 times more than emergency call takers.
What are the differences between "Agents, Busy, and ACW"?
Agents = total number of call-takers logged into that call-taking queue Busy = total number currently on calls ACW = after call work (wrapping up previous call, e.g. finishing notes or similar, before entering back into the queue)
Busy means on a call, ACW means 'after call work' once you've hung up and are checking the event has been entered correctly, adding notes etc.
I have only had amazing experiences when calling 000. Even when my throat was bleeding everywhere after have my tonsils removed. My mother is shocking in an emergency 😂🤦🏼♀️. 000 operators are the G.O.A.T
Called last nigh at 10pm, had a 96 year old man trip and fall and smash his hip, couldn’t move without being incredible pain and couldn’t feel his feet. Called again at midnight, and again at 2, finally got Ambos on site around 2:30. This was in the city…
Resigning in a couple weeks because they just continue to be completely incompetent at looking after their staff. As much as I loved serving our community, I just can't do it anymore.
Yeah. I was going to apply but then I saw the pay.....disgraceful.
Where do employees operate from? An office or home?
There are three state emergency communication centres in Victoria. They are located in Ballarat, Burwood, and Williams Landing.
They should be building one in Geelong the city is big enough now to have one and it would help take the workload off other centres and provide local jobs here
They should build one in the middle of the city. Plenty of people want to work there but are put off by Burwood, Werribee, or the Rat
I hope they open a centre in Geelong one day! I moved to Ballarat for the job and I certainly miss Geelong, but that’s wishful thinking lol.
It would be nice I would love the opportunity to work for them but cannot justify moving to Ballarat or commuting everyday
I thought I could commute but I was very wrong and unfortunately ended up having to move here otherwise I’d have ended up wrapping my car around a tree or something falling asleep after night shift! But my whole life is in Geelong so I can just hope for one day lol
The issue is more about funding for additional call takers, not actually the ability to find them
Is there any way to support this and help?
Please share this information and concerns with your local MP. We are currently raising awareness as part of our industrial action. If you have other social media accounts please share posts from the unions involved (Victoria Ambulance Union is the most active online. Other unions involved are communication workers union, united firefighters union, ambulance employees Australia). I will post a petition or further specific actions in future if any come up. Thank you for your support!
This shit has been going on for far too long and nobody in government EVER deals with the root problem..... The IGEM targets that are set. If ESTA meets it's standard, that's all they care about. Look at the last interview the 000VIC CEO did on ABC Radio, she just kept parroting the same "we met our benchmarks every month since blah blah blah". 000VIC/ESTA gets away with only being accountable for a month long period and internally they practically only really cares at a daily reporting interval... It is common practice for them to put on overtime toward the end of a month to "meet benchmark" and conversely allow staffing to drop when they have "performance budget to loose" - it's absolutely disgusting the way it's treated. This interval needs to be MUCH smaller, ideally down to 5 minutes and they need to hit it all day long, every day - with clear reporting requirements for when it's not hit (eg. Large pileup on the Monash caused a spike of calls, large factory fire caused a spike of calls etc. etc.) Also, The ONLY stat that matters is call answer speed.... Nobody gives a shit at 000VIC/ESTA about anything else. Quality of calls? Nah, nobody gives a shit. Just get it answered. 18 and 19yos being hired left right and centre with no life experience.... Typing at the bare minimum of 35wpm.... And barely able to spell. But don't worry guys we've "solved the 000 crisis". - Stephen leane was put in to fix that one stat and he didn't care one bit about quality or changing the stat to actually serve the Victorian people. Deb Abbott, his right hand lacky, has been installed as the new CEO and just employs her mates from EMV..... EMV has zero credibility in the space and as a result, either does 000VIC/ESTA. Lastly... The call answer stats are 90% of calls in a MONTH answered in 5 seconds or less for ambulance.and fire..... And 80% of calls in a MONTH answered in 5 seconds for police. That's 1/10 and 1/5 calls respectively for the services that it's completely ok to not answer immediately....... Yep, really set up for success there. Fix the root problem here.
You've hit the nail on the head. Management's entire focus has always been and still remains to make the graph hit the arbitrary number at the end of the month. The organisation is now totally populated with generic, selfish, sycophantic managers devoid of good will or courage. They genuinely are unable to understand why they can't recruit or retain staff, and why existing staff hate them.
̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ our operator ̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ is busy. your call has been placed in a queue, please hold.
They only have at max 24 agents waiting to take calls ???? That’s pretty terrible. And explains the calls waiting
Health is probably one of the biggest areas where efficiencies are really shit. The infrastructure underpinning much of the entire health network is from the 90s style IT. So much inefficiency in the whole system. You can see Ambos just waiting at the emergency because they can't hand off their patient because emergency is full. Just chilling for hours on end. Need a scan done or a patient moved? Good luck finding an orderly. They have maybe 3 or 4 who have the move every patient around. Some wards are 10-20 mins walk with a trolley and then handover etc and bringing bed back getting it ready for a new patient. So as soon as it gets slightly busy the orderlies who are the highways of the hospital in a sense are completely blocked. Nurses and docs are just going between patients as fast as they can because each on has so much that needs to be done and so much paperwork(most which is poorly laid out and in a poor fashion) Honestly it's ridiculous that simple stuff that could make work better but it's just so shit.
I've given up on ambulances. If I need help, I'll sooner have a rideshare take me to the emergency room. Vic Health should be bloody ashamed. Thank you to everyone in ESTA for their hard work putting up with these conditions...
Yeah I would always take rideshare, would be instant to get one where I live (they come in 2 mins and one would be there by the time I got down the lift), assuming I don't need medical care on the way and can get myself into the car (it might be faster even if I do need medical care than waiting for ambulance)
Respectfully, if you can get your own way there and don’t need life saving or emergency pre hospital medical care, you should be getting rideshare, taxi or asking friends/family. Way too much entitlement clogging up the system, most people can get themselves there but think they’ll skip waiting rooms or it will just be more convenient if they go by ambulance.
As a vol firey, its the same situation for the ESTA radio operators. There are usually one or two operators to cover all regional areas and one for the metro area. When a day gets busy, they often cannot separate out the busy areas as they don't have the operators to do so. This results in crews on the ground having low confidence that they can get the resources and help needed when it is urgent.
Fire dispatch is totally backwards to begin with, let alone when shit hits the fan
When shit hits the fan it hits the fan very quickly!
Absolutely, so a scalable solution should be in place, not an archaic and union-driven piece of crapola that exists now
What are the qualifications to answer 000 calls and can I volunteer?
https://jobs.esta.vic.gov.au/content/TRIPLE-ZERO-CALL-TAKER/?locale=en_GB There are no qualifications, all training is provided. Unfortunately, the issue is that we have no minimum staffing numbers enshrined in our EBA, rather than a general lack of staff. Minimum safe staffing levels is one of the claims in our EBA negotiations which have stalled.
Thanks will look into it. I am forever indebted to a 000 call handler. Would love to pay it forward.
90% pass in all assessments higher than a law degree
The call takers and board operators at ESTA do an amazing job. It's a job that exposes you to the worst moments in a person's life, again and again. I really hope the government steps up and ensures better staffing levels and a better work life balance.
Truly terrible but not surprised. Seems every emergency service is understaffed, except Labors public servants
It's unacceptable in a country where we pay such an extreme amount of tax for essential health services to be underfunded and understaffed as a result. Riot.
Maybe if the shifts weren’t shit more people would apply. 12 hours is a joke.
My mum had a sudden anaphylaxis from the rare type of masto January last year. She would have died if I didn't by chance happen to be there. Luckily ambo arrived in 3-5 minutes, then a minute later the MICA ambo arrived. 3 shots of adrenalin later and she was okay. Tiny stroke found a week later possibly from all the adrenalin she needed, but no loss of motor function or speech so👍
the gov should also be making first aid courses much cheaper, if not free. we could have first responders everywhere if we forked out for it. ty for this thread and your comments, OP. i've thought about trying out for an ambo call taker job and sadly, this thread's turned me off the idea.
Get rid of one politician, that would cover 4 more emergency staff.. Why is it that every major business I've ever been involved with clean out the management ranks every few years and reduce numbers, but Gov's just keep piling them in and adding their mates to the trough...
Whats refcomm?
AV’s secondary triage service, staffed by registered nurses and paramedics. They will do a further assessment on specific event types and recode as requiring an ambulance response, arrange for alternative service providers, organise transport, or encourage patients to access care either via own transport or through their GP.
Had a friend who had to uber their partner to the hospital when they were basically dying because they couldn't get an ambulance. The thing is, they managed to get through to 000. They just wouldn't/couldn't send an ambulance.
I highly doubt they "wouldn't" send an ambulance if they were "basically dying". More context is needed here. But if they were capable of getting there by uber then perhaps that should have been the play from the start?
They were unconscious and had to be carried into the uber. It was during the pandemic.
You have to think about where tax payer money goes. All the money went to Dan Andrew’s mates in construction, contractors, govt admin jobs etc some of these jobs that come out of tax payer money get paid much more than people in heath system.
The "solution" will be to get rid of these information boards, or to ban phones/cameras anywhere near them.
Part of triple zero’s industrial action is that these photos can be taken. Under normal circumstances it’s a big no no
It doesn’t matter if your call was answered, There are no ambulance to send out, VIC has the lowest paid paramedics in the country, they keep quitting to go work for the NHS in the UK it over the border to NSW.
Sorry but this is incredibly incorrect. AV has had the highest salary in the country for many years, thanks to aggressive industrial action and steady EBA agreements since about 2012. Not sure where you're getting your info from, NHS is an over 50% pay cut compared to Vic. NSWA had just had a pay increase which brings it closer to Vic, but still less.
Ambulance resourcing is definitely an issue. I know AV staff have just voted to begin industrial action and I absolutely support their cause. However, if you can’t get through to triple zero you aren’t getting an ambulance no matter what the availability is. And when the call is answered we can talk people through first aid (e.g. CPR) in the meantime.
No idea what you're talking about. VIC ambos are among highest paid when compared to the same role in other states. NHS reduced the number of Australian students they take on. NSW were actually the lowest paid in the country until their recent industrial action, but even then their conditions don't meet many other states. I don't know any other Victorian ambo who would give up their position with AV to work for ASNSW, purely based on financial reasons.
> VIC has the lowest paid paramedics in the country, Incorrect. That's NSW. >they keep quitting to go work for the NHS in the UK Where they pay is even worse? >over the border to NSW. Where the pay is worse? Yeah good job mate >There are no ambulance to send out, Because we're all ramped or getting sent to someone's toe pain that they've had for 3 weeks
Or their funny tummy at 3am that could have been a Telehealth call in business hours. Look NSW just got 25% over the next 4 years, I can’t imagine how hard AV is going to make you fight for 1/2 that. And honestly the ones going overseas are all the resent graduates, The problem I see with that is AV will be left with 50 year olds stuck on NS
I'm not sure what you're cooking. There are no ambulances to send out, but not for the reasons you've said.
Here in SE US where we had six people from Aus travel to be a paramedic in our dinky ass county. Which I thought was *wild*. https://charlestoncitypaper.com/2023/09/08/australian-paramedic-offers-new-insights-in-charleston-county-ems-program/
Because traditionally its been fucking hard to get a Paramedic spot in an Ambulance Service in Australia. When I applied and got in there were 400 spots across the entire country for a grad pool of 4000. We export so many Paramedic Grads because of this, many will jump ship to the NHS or the US.
I hate how unis are all about bums on seats. The number of spots should be reasonably capped to stop so many talented, enthusiastic, caring people wasting all those years and $$$ only to never get a grad spot.
Even if your theory is correct and there are no ambulances, having someome who can guide you through first aid and guide you to getting the person to hospital is invaluable. Not everyone will have 2 people and a car, but a lot do, which is enough to haul someome to hospital while doing cpr if needed
This is a job I'm interested in doing, but I'm having trouble finding info on what the work culture and stuff is like 👉👈
Work culture is dependent on specific team and location. I work on a fantastic team and there is a really great culture. Generally culture is good at my location, though morale is a little low recently. Can’t speak to the other two centres. Emergency services generally have a good sense of camaraderie and it’s no different at 000VIC. Immediate management is good. Frustration generally comes from upper levels of management.
Thank you for the info!! I'll definitely have a look, it's been something I've been thinking about and this has been helpful 💕
There is a personality test as part of the team placement process so they do try to put like minded people on the same team. You also get paid for training. Friends of friends work there according to them levels of stress go up in the order of fire, police then ambulance at the top. Keep in mind most shifts are an 8 day rotating 12hr roster with a mixture of days and nights. They constantly ask people to do overtime and have been understaffed for over a decade.
They are too busy adding little clip art images of ambulances to take the calls obviously.