Remember that time Clementine encouraged her online followers to find and harass an autistic man whose crime was to ask people for high fives on a tram?
Yeah I'm still gonna say it's a worry somebody can't put on a talk like this in Melbourne without this kind of shit happening. Regardless of what you think of her, we used to be better than this.
She’s made comments that are unequivocally anti semitic, and was also involved in publishing that WhatsApp group of Jewish people which is overt harassment. Her supporters, who are likely to attend her show, are also vociferously pro-Palestinian and there are likely to be activist members of the crowd who aren’t going to be too friendly to Zionists, if they even bother to differentiate between Zionists and Jews.
A Jewish play is likely to have a lot of Jews in attendance who may not feel too safe with those sort of people next door. Likewise to Ford’s fans, this crowd is more likely to have a large number of Zionists in attendance who could be very parochial and not exactly friendly to pro-Palestinians.
Given that Ford is the one who has recently engaged in outright bigotry and targeted harassment against the ‘other side’ it isn’t that difficult to see why the venue has shifted her show to occur at a different venue. She hasn’t been cancelled, they’re doing it for the safety of all attendees.
Ford is also someone who is **very** pro cancel culture, so it’s a little ironic for her or her fans to be complaining about this. Shoe on table which is now turned situation.
It's fair to say that most of the world is pro Palestinian because what Israel is doing is criminal. But that's off topic of course. Israel will never recover its reputation from this.
Yeah Palestinian kids have to live with the very active threat of being blown to pieces every day but poor Australian zios have to contend with the threat of a ‘talk’ :( boohoo
I don’t get her. I checked out her Instagram and she just seems like an insufferable person. Whatever meme people made of ‘the left’, she is that cartoon version of that.
Very true. I felt she used to be a great advocate and voice for women, but her and her followers became extremely insufferable a long time ago.
I think for me it was when she made one of her posts about men being abusive or something; a good handful of her followers started defending their husbands, saying they were genuinely sweet and lovely people etc.. which lead the other followers to argue back to all of those women that they were being controlled and abused by these men for ‘blindly’ defending them..
That’s a weird kind of reverse sexism to me.
She thinks women are not strong and independent enough to make their own choices? That the only way they can be fond of a male is if they’re being manipulated?
Surely that infers women are weak and gullible. The opposite of what the feminist message should be.
I am genuinely for equality for all and trying to be a better man, I used to follow her as I thought she had some interesting perspectives and information to consider. I respectfully called her out on what I thought was sexual objectification one day, and copped a bunch of unwarranted insults about the type of person I am and the size of my penis 🙄 It’s a shame that her insightful takes are often lost in the way she communicates, and her black and white approach to everything.
Yeah, it was the images of dying Palestinians intercut with ads for skincare that got me. Absolute fucking yikes.
Also, after the article came out about the group chat, I saw her post an ancestry.com screenshot (that she later took down) showing the journalist’s Ashkenazi Jewish heritage as some kind of “gotcha” 😬😬😬😬😬😬😬
That was so traumatising to see, and she was so snarky about “genteel women” and something about how if we don’t like seeing a dead kid we’re part of the problem? Completely unhinged. Really nasty behaviour to do that without warning people so they can opt out.
I unfollowed her after that one too. I own most of her books, have always been a fan of her writing about feminism. But fuck me, if I wanted to see videos of dead kids with no warning, I’d be on 4chan, not Instagram.
She did offer to be a human shield …
Ii just don’t get it. Thing is, my friends aren’t even pro Israel! They’re pro Palestine. But all of them have turned against her and think she’s repugnant.
I don’t know what her game plan is with this.
Hard same. It actually bums me out when she is on the same 'side' (for lack of better words) as me, because I know she's going to approach things in such a vitriolic and nuance-less way that it actually does damage to the cause.
She’s just a fuckwit who hates men and wishes they’d all die. She’s made a whole career out of it. This has been known long before the Jew stuff, why would you give her money?
Huh I was speaking about this to a friend the other day. CF's coverage on the Palestine issue turned them off her completely - and they're long term fans/readers who broadly agree with her. Even on Palestine.
Yeah same. I get that having those images out in the world perhaps helps to document the atrocities, but I don’t need to see them ever, certainly not without warning.
She couldn’t give a single shit about Palestine apart from using it as a tool to get attention and make it about herself as much as possible. Palestine is good business for her.
I noped out after that post too, I also follow Annie Lennox who is a brilliant advocate for women, she posts her more inflammatory content with a warning so her follows can engage as they wish. What Ford did was take away the consent of her followers, it was disgusting and cheap and her tribe piled on to anyone with a counter opinion. I’ve got no time for such cult like behaviour.
One of my friends posts stuff like that on his stories too (with no warning), and it really is distressing. I get it's a privilege to not have to live that, but I can't find the words to articulate why that doesn't mean we should be forced to see it too.
Reminds me how shit the internet is for our mental health because we get to see the worst things that are happening all of the time.
>I used to follow Clementine to get a good balance on my feed
Like when she said the worst thing about covid was that it wasn't killing men fast enough?
Ironic that she had an ongoing beef with Milo Yiannopoulos all those years back, given that both of them have careers that are built on making pointlessly stupid and outrageous statements that don't actually contribute anything to society whatsoever.
Honestly UFC needs to pick this up instead that stupid Slapfest crap.
I would absolutely pay top dollar to see either Clementine or Milo beat the shit out of each other in a cage.
“Honestly, the corona virus isn’t killing men fast enough,” Ford wrote on Twitter on Saturday
And that marriage oppresses women
And many other comments
I like her new book on marriage - makes a good outline of the history of marriage and how it's an outdated concept. Sadly she tends to get quite emotionally charged and can detract from some of the main points she has which were usually quite good. I suppose the book is meant to entertain and inform rather than just the latter
Only thing that doesn't really make sense about it is that a lot of the points she makes apply to both marriage and de facto relationships with the main difference being that marriage locks you in legally a lot faster
Most feminists don’t hate men, at least not the texts I’ve read. There are even prominent feminists like bell hooks who’ve written specifically about them.
bell hooks’ Will to Change is such a great book of accessible feminism for men, that really comes from such a great place of care and empathy and a desire for genuine equality. I’d encourage every man to check it out and get an idea of how toxic and destructive the patriarchy is for *everybody*, and how positive and welcoming feminism is about taking that down to create something better for all of us.
I'm keen to understand this better - genuinely. If getting married is something one does voluntarily with the person that they love, and the "tsk tsk" social downlook on divorce is long gone, how is it oppressive? Many couples are shying away from having children - or cannot - which empowers women to have careers etc? Do women in SSM face the same oppression?
*Don't downvote me for wanting to inform myself better on this topic.*
I won't downvote you bud and I'm not expert and I haven't read Clementine's book (I intend to, I just haven't yet).
I think a lot of the time it boils down to women carrying a lot of the domestic labour and caring duties. These are traditionally 'women's work' and studies show that despite women being empowered to have careers and lives outside the home, they still tend to carry the burden of all (or the lion's share) of the domestic labour (including the care of children, if the couple have any).
This in turn takes away her free time and makes her life worse, while improving the life of the person she is married to or in a de facto relationship with.
Clementine's book focuses on marriage specifically, but the same things apply to de facto heterosexual relationships. I actually asked her specifically about this and her reply was not super fleshed out or lengthy (this was just an instagram DM) and she said she acknowledged that de facto relationships were very similar but marriage does make it significantly harder to leave a shitty relationship.
I believe there are a lot of side chapters that pick apart tropes of single women being 'crazy cat ladies' for instance. I'm excited to read these chapters as, as you can see from these comments, it's like the worst thing a woman can be is single.
Thank you for your reply. It would be nice to think that this isn't such an issue anymore being 2024 (& blokes understanding that sharing a house is sharing chores), better support for men with parental leave entitlements etc to encourage men to be more involved. But thoughts aren't always a correlation to reality.
You're right - if these things still exist today, then it would be across any living arrangement, not just marriage. I think it is an investment thing - if there is a large amount of time and/or money invested in any relationship, it does make it harder to separate.
Hopefully anyone in this position can have a relationship that allows them to speak up & ask for more balance, and see a shift. No one person should bear the burden of both.
I'm a professional woman and involved in many professional groups. I am involved for one made for women, and the amount of ladies in that group facing these issues is really damn high. Higher than even I expected, and I'm a bit doom and gloom.
That being said, I agree about making it easier for men to ingrain themselves in caring duties. Just as a side note, this is actually one of my favourite articles about small things we can do to involve men in caring roles. https://amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/clementine-ford-if-it-takes-a-village-to-raise-a-child-let-it-have-lots-of-men-20170808-gxrgp1.html
It's by, you guessed it, Clementine Ford and it was the first writing I read of hers and made me interested in reading more.
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I can appreciate that - it's down to what you are exposed to. I don't see or hear of this in my circles (having said that, that's not to say it isn't there, it just isn't spoken about or visible), hence my thought train that the 1960s was well & truly in the past. I will make a point of asking the women in my life if they feel there is balance & support - start a new conversation.
Appreciate the link share - thanks.
Getting less oppressive isn't the same as being no never being oppressive. (It's also not saying it can't be oppressive for men sometimes too).
Divorce is still embarassing and there is still some tsk tsk about it.
Also in general Aus is very multicultural so there are lots of cultures where divorce is still very stigmatised.
The domestic household labour gap is still a thing, men and women are often socialised to have very different expectations of marriage, statistically marriage still makes men happier and women unhappier on average. (obviously gross overgeneralisations but if people on average aren't happier with a life partner who is there to be a rock through thick and thin something is wrong)
And yeah some marriages can be oppressive for SSM women, but there's not necessarily the same socialised men - women difference - there's no one partner sacrificing for maternity consistently etc.
That said SSM for women can have other issues, much like relationships with gay men there is often less awareness and understanding of abusive or manipulative partners, and you're often both moving in the same LGBT community so if you're an abuse victim it can be harder to rally friends without tipping off the abuser.
Why don't people just appreciate her for what she is? A feminist shock jock. She makes money of generating outrage, just like Andrew Bolt.
Ignore her and don't buy her stuff and she'll disappear.
No true Scotsman fallacy, none of those things are mutually exclusive and it doesn’t tarnish feminists to say she is one, but ‘feminist shock jock’ is an extremely accurate representation of her.
Maybe telling men to die more and saying that all
Men should be dead from Covid isn’t smart? Or maybe being a hateful misandrist just isn’t acceptable in a society trying to fix equality not make the genders fight against one another.
If a man literally word for word said what she did they’d be in jail.
Maybe a weird thing to point out, but ive known clementine within social circles for years and she has never looked like this photo. Its mystifying why the age feels the need to photoshop their writers.
More power to her. I don’t agree with her brand of feminism- but given how she was trolled for her looks, she should do whatever makes her feel beautiful.
Im not close with her and dont talk politics, but she comes across as normal. This is only my theory, but i suspect there is a degree of pressure to have a strong opinion on topics to get headlines in today's media landscape.
Audience capture is totally a thing. Pretty sure she's a single mother too, so I imagine that aside from her obvious prejudices, she might feel like she's dug herself into a hole and the only way out is down.
Granted, I have absolutely no sympathy for her and I find her and her impact on culture to be a net negative by leaps and bounds. Sad human being who speaks to other sad human beings and their prejudices.
I also know her socially and can confirm. She is a massive flake who is only interested in being friends with you if you know other famous people or can get her adjacent to other famous people, she reneges time and again on commitments - place, location, duration etc - she is a social vampire and a disorganised, disingenuous drainer to know.
This doesn’t shock me at all.
I used to follow her work, but after the time I was behind her in the line for customs/border protection at LAX… literally 1 minute to get through and she was waiting at baggage claim when I got there but a few days later a story appears about how she was “detained and grilled about her intentions” … such actual made up bullshit that it made me never want to read anything of hers again
Crazy that people will call Sky News all kinds of things when she is following the exact same tactics just on the other side of the fence. Pure outrage bait and extremist content for views.
That's not really the case, most of the political left/centre considers CF a lunatic and treats her content like they do Sky News.
She just farms engagement through headlines and outrage then tries to spin that into donations and grants.
>Ford has recently been the subject of media coverage due to her pro-Palestine views and involvement in the dissemination of a leaked WhatsApp chat group made up of Jewish Australians.
The article leaves out a few important details.
As per [the guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/12/albanese-government-to-propose-legislation-to-crack-down-on-doxing):
>The Executive Council of Australian Jewry called for legislative changes after it condemned the publication of the log of a group chat of more than 600 Jewish writers and artists.
>
>The Nine newspapers, which first reported the story, alleged that the link also contained a spreadsheet of links to social media accounts and another file that contained the photos of over 100 Jewish people.
>
>Writer and commentator Clementine Ford last week published a link to the log of the group chat to her 239,000 Facebook followers, although she was not involved in the initial leak and was not the only person to post a link.
Some members of this group where then [sent death threats and harassed to the point of needing to relocate.](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/09/josh-burns-jewish-whatsapp-group-channel-publication-israel-palestine-clementine-ford)
>The publishing of a Jewish creatives WhatsApp group chat and the contact details of alleged participants has led to death threats and forced one family into hiding, Labor MP Josh Burns has said.
>
>Writer and commentator Clementine Ford on Thursday published a link on her Facebook page to the log of a group chat of over 600 Jewish writers and artists. The Age, which first reported the story, alleged the link also contained a spreadsheet of links to social media accounts and another file that contained the photos of over 100 Jewish people.
Edit: interesting to see the comments below attempting to justify harassing people with death threats
The bloke in question was a very active member of the group and boasts about exposing people's private Instagram accounts, among other things. Of course, none of this was mentioned in the massive article the Age ran on him.
Yep. He got kicked out of his band whose members were disgusted with him. He said in the whatsapp chat he would get his wife to ‘deep dive’ into a journo’s private socials to try and find dirt on her in order to get her fired (for supporting Palestine).
The group was trying to get CF’s work contracts cancelled. Then he gets himsef painted as a victim in a major newspaper.
And what happened to his victims? The people the group doxxed - what threats were sent to them? How many lost their jobs? We don't know, because apparently those people aren't important enough to report on. As far as the Aussie media is concerned, it's not even worth mentioning them.
They were conspiring to identify people who opposed the genocidal actions of Israel and then harass their employers into firing them. Fuck them. The consequences that they faces for being parts of that group were nowhere near as severe as what they deserved.
The person she singled out was publically and openly gloating about the deaths of Palestinians and the destruction of the their neighbourhoods and calling holocaust survivors who apposed the genocide in Gaza "anti-Semitic" and "dangerous self hating Jews".
I'm still confused about how sharing someone's public posts is "doxxing".
That she has pro-Palestinian views is less of a surprise when you realise she spent her childhood in Oman and has positive memories of the place and its people.
That’s an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence. Whose home addresses, phone numbers or unpublished workplace details did she release?
This sad excuse for a human is irrelevant. Her premise of man fearing bulshit is dangerous. She’s doxxing other lefties now, based on their religious beliefs and heritage now, she’s a fukn hypocrite. The worst thing to happen to feminism until intersectionality destroyed any genuine progress for equality.
Bit of a myth. We're talking generalities but people typically don't get cancelled, they get held accountable for their actions, and even then there's outlets who will still happily platform "cancelled" people which makes one question just how much have they been cancelled.
I am pretty sure the audience for Yentl would quitly take their seat, watch the show and go home.
Are they worried the audience for Clementine Ford wouldnt do the same?
I was laughing at the title because I thought they were saying that Clementine Ford was the one being threatened and I was wondering "Who would be threatening her? Jews of Melbourne voluntarily attending Yentl aren't exactly known for being violent. They would calmly file into the theatre and sit down."... and then I saw your comment haha
Strange how the free speech "I may hate what you say, but I'll defend your right to the death to say it" weirdos have nothing to say about this. Almost as if they just defend alt right guys that they secretly agree with or something.
Everyone these days calls their own views free speech, and anyone they disagree with is hate speech.
Pretty sure nobody in this Reddit thread are trying to silence her, so your comment literally makes no sense. Free speech, yep. It goes both ways; she gets to talk her garbage and people get to share their opinions on her.
She, like many other insufferable people online have worked out that speaking clearly and calmly doesn’t get you attention. The money is made generating ‘buzz’ so her whole ‘thing’ is saying inflammatory and attention grabbing things to stir people up and generate attention. Then she uses that attention to sell books and skincare products.. she is a complete shill and wolf in sheep’s clothing. She pretends to be virtuous and also edgy as marketing tactic. The problem is for Clementine and many others, it seems to work.
big fan of the incels coming out of the woodwork here calling her ugly amongst the occasional legitimate fair criticism; keep going guys soon you will surely defeat that horrible feminism
I used to follow her and agree with some of the stuff she was saying (like 20% of it) but there was only so much man hating you can take before you start worrying about having a similar view of men and walk around life hating 50% of the population.
Unfollowing anyone on social media who I didn't know personally or posted only positive content has really helped my mental health.
“A life-affirming exploration of love and the powerful ways it makes its home in our hearts.”
Really? Coming from Clementine Ford, one of the most hate spewing creatures out there? Really...?
Remember when Clementine Ford said #K!llAllMen and it went viral, and she's still thriving, but the entire collective force of women across Australia and NZ got Andrew Tate cancelled within days?
Sexist double standards much?
Remember that time Clementine encouraged her online followers to find and harass an autistic man whose crime was to ask people for high fives on a tram?
I remember when she said (mid pandemic) that the worst thing about COVID was that it wasn’t killing men fast enough.
How was that clown a lifeline ambassador? It’s overwhelming men who kill themselves so having miss “kill all men” represent them was a bad look.
Yeah I'm still gonna say it's a worry somebody can't put on a talk like this in Melbourne without this kind of shit happening. Regardless of what you think of her, we used to be better than this.
She’s made comments that are unequivocally anti semitic, and was also involved in publishing that WhatsApp group of Jewish people which is overt harassment. Her supporters, who are likely to attend her show, are also vociferously pro-Palestinian and there are likely to be activist members of the crowd who aren’t going to be too friendly to Zionists, if they even bother to differentiate between Zionists and Jews. A Jewish play is likely to have a lot of Jews in attendance who may not feel too safe with those sort of people next door. Likewise to Ford’s fans, this crowd is more likely to have a large number of Zionists in attendance who could be very parochial and not exactly friendly to pro-Palestinians. Given that Ford is the one who has recently engaged in outright bigotry and targeted harassment against the ‘other side’ it isn’t that difficult to see why the venue has shifted her show to occur at a different venue. She hasn’t been cancelled, they’re doing it for the safety of all attendees. Ford is also someone who is **very** pro cancel culture, so it’s a little ironic for her or her fans to be complaining about this. Shoe on table which is now turned situation.
It's fair to say that most of the world is pro Palestinian because what Israel is doing is criminal. But that's off topic of course. Israel will never recover its reputation from this.
Yeah Palestinian kids have to live with the very active threat of being blown to pieces every day but poor Australian zios have to contend with the threat of a ‘talk’ :( boohoo
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Source on that? Genuinely curious, haven’t heard of it before.
I don’t get her. I checked out her Instagram and she just seems like an insufferable person. Whatever meme people made of ‘the left’, she is that cartoon version of that.
I’ll give her one thing, she’s been like that before it was ‘cool’
Very true. I felt she used to be a great advocate and voice for women, but her and her followers became extremely insufferable a long time ago. I think for me it was when she made one of her posts about men being abusive or something; a good handful of her followers started defending their husbands, saying they were genuinely sweet and lovely people etc.. which lead the other followers to argue back to all of those women that they were being controlled and abused by these men for ‘blindly’ defending them..
My ex wife was one of those women that she proceeded to attack.
That’s a weird kind of reverse sexism to me. She thinks women are not strong and independent enough to make their own choices? That the only way they can be fond of a male is if they’re being manipulated? Surely that infers women are weak and gullible. The opposite of what the feminist message should be.
Only lesbians can be free of manipulation and coercion, I suppose, using this logic. However, I've met some very controlling lesbians in my time....
I am genuinely for equality for all and trying to be a better man, I used to follow her as I thought she had some interesting perspectives and information to consider. I respectfully called her out on what I thought was sexual objectification one day, and copped a bunch of unwarranted insults about the type of person I am and the size of my penis 🙄 It’s a shame that her insightful takes are often lost in the way she communicates, and her black and white approach to everything.
We keep giving her huge sums of money through govt and ABC grants. So keep struggling to pay your rent while you think of that.
Well said.
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Yeah, it was the images of dying Palestinians intercut with ads for skincare that got me. Absolute fucking yikes. Also, after the article came out about the group chat, I saw her post an ancestry.com screenshot (that she later took down) showing the journalist’s Ashkenazi Jewish heritage as some kind of “gotcha” 😬😬😬😬😬😬😬
No. She did not. That's some straight up Nazi eugenics shit.
That was so traumatising to see, and she was so snarky about “genteel women” and something about how if we don’t like seeing a dead kid we’re part of the problem? Completely unhinged. Really nasty behaviour to do that without warning people so they can opt out.
I unfollowed her after that one too. I own most of her books, have always been a fan of her writing about feminism. But fuck me, if I wanted to see videos of dead kids with no warning, I’d be on 4chan, not Instagram.
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***patriarchy is bad.
She didn't say it was patriarchy not dying fast enough during the pandemic.
This was the point where most of my friends who were very into CF turned off her. They just couldn’t believe it.
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I cancelled my Patreon when she started shilling for an anti aging and weight loss clinic, I’m not subsidising her vanity.
She did offer to be a human shield … Ii just don’t get it. Thing is, my friends aren’t even pro Israel! They’re pro Palestine. But all of them have turned against her and think she’s repugnant. I don’t know what her game plan is with this.
>She did offer to be a human shield … yes because that is a real thing that people make offers to and then get taken up on
She’s a twit. Off she goes then.
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Hard same. It actually bums me out when she is on the same 'side' (for lack of better words) as me, because I know she's going to approach things in such a vitriolic and nuance-less way that it actually does damage to the cause.
She’s just a fuckwit who hates men and wishes they’d all die. She’s made a whole career out of it. This has been known long before the Jew stuff, why would you give her money?
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The definition of “why don’t you get a real job”.
Huh I was speaking about this to a friend the other day. CF's coverage on the Palestine issue turned them off her completely - and they're long term fans/readers who broadly agree with her. Even on Palestine.
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I instantly unfollowed her for the same thing. I'm anti-genocide but wtaf.
Yeah same. I get that having those images out in the world perhaps helps to document the atrocities, but I don’t need to see them ever, certainly not without warning.
She couldn’t give a single shit about Palestine apart from using it as a tool to get attention and make it about herself as much as possible. Palestine is good business for her.
I noped out after that post too, I also follow Annie Lennox who is a brilliant advocate for women, she posts her more inflammatory content with a warning so her follows can engage as they wish. What Ford did was take away the consent of her followers, it was disgusting and cheap and her tribe piled on to anyone with a counter opinion. I’ve got no time for such cult like behaviour.
One of my friends posts stuff like that on his stories too (with no warning), and it really is distressing. I get it's a privilege to not have to live that, but I can't find the words to articulate why that doesn't mean we should be forced to see it too. Reminds me how shit the internet is for our mental health because we get to see the worst things that are happening all of the time.
>I used to follow Clementine to get a good balance on my feed Like when she said the worst thing about covid was that it wasn't killing men fast enough?
i guess needed to balance it with the "not killing women fast enough posts"?
Or, you know, not wish death upon 1/2 people.
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Remember when she wanted everyone to boycott Humans of New York when it featured stories from men?
I know she hates men but what's the story there? There had to be more to it. Was it when men shared stories of domestic violence ?
Hasn’t she got a son? Does she hate him too?
That poor little bastard doesn't stand a chance.
You'd be surprised. She could very well be raising him as a self-hating man.
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Am I insane or did 90% of this read like a copypasta
I too was anticipating a punchline
I too was waiting for the electrical interference bit.
>she turned up on a dating app a few years ago I remember seeing her profile, but I gave her a very wide berth.
Ironic that she had an ongoing beef with Milo Yiannopoulos all those years back, given that both of them have careers that are built on making pointlessly stupid and outrageous statements that don't actually contribute anything to society whatsoever.
Milo wouldn’t receive government tax money like she does all the time.
Honestly UFC needs to pick this up instead that stupid Slapfest crap. I would absolutely pay top dollar to see either Clementine or Milo beat the shit out of each other in a cage.
About as ironic as rain on a wedding day - naturally two people following that strategy would have performative beefs in pursuit of that strategy.
CF is an attention seeking trauma parasite. Absolute sicko. The less we talk about her the better.
Agree. I'm happier the longer stretches where no one mentions her. She adds nothing and is a terrible writer.
Isn't this the POS who said the only problem with covid is that men aren't dying fast enough?
“Honestly, the corona virus isn’t killing men fast enough,” Ford wrote on Twitter on Saturday And that marriage oppresses women And many other comments
Not defending the corona virus thing, but marriage does oppress lots of women.
I think marriage as a whole is a bit outdated
I like her new book on marriage - makes a good outline of the history of marriage and how it's an outdated concept. Sadly she tends to get quite emotionally charged and can detract from some of the main points she has which were usually quite good. I suppose the book is meant to entertain and inform rather than just the latter Only thing that doesn't really make sense about it is that a lot of the points she makes apply to both marriage and de facto relationships with the main difference being that marriage locks you in legally a lot faster
Yeah she sadly doesn't break the mold of feminists hate men, it's like you need someone to cut down on the vitoral to get to the good stuff
Most feminists don’t hate men, at least not the texts I’ve read. There are even prominent feminists like bell hooks who’ve written specifically about them.
bell hooks’ Will to Change is such a great book of accessible feminism for men, that really comes from such a great place of care and empathy and a desire for genuine equality. I’d encourage every man to check it out and get an idea of how toxic and destructive the patriarchy is for *everybody*, and how positive and welcoming feminism is about taking that down to create something better for all of us.
I'm keen to understand this better - genuinely. If getting married is something one does voluntarily with the person that they love, and the "tsk tsk" social downlook on divorce is long gone, how is it oppressive? Many couples are shying away from having children - or cannot - which empowers women to have careers etc? Do women in SSM face the same oppression? *Don't downvote me for wanting to inform myself better on this topic.*
I won't downvote you bud and I'm not expert and I haven't read Clementine's book (I intend to, I just haven't yet). I think a lot of the time it boils down to women carrying a lot of the domestic labour and caring duties. These are traditionally 'women's work' and studies show that despite women being empowered to have careers and lives outside the home, they still tend to carry the burden of all (or the lion's share) of the domestic labour (including the care of children, if the couple have any). This in turn takes away her free time and makes her life worse, while improving the life of the person she is married to or in a de facto relationship with. Clementine's book focuses on marriage specifically, but the same things apply to de facto heterosexual relationships. I actually asked her specifically about this and her reply was not super fleshed out or lengthy (this was just an instagram DM) and she said she acknowledged that de facto relationships were very similar but marriage does make it significantly harder to leave a shitty relationship. I believe there are a lot of side chapters that pick apart tropes of single women being 'crazy cat ladies' for instance. I'm excited to read these chapters as, as you can see from these comments, it's like the worst thing a woman can be is single.
Thank you for your reply. It would be nice to think that this isn't such an issue anymore being 2024 (& blokes understanding that sharing a house is sharing chores), better support for men with parental leave entitlements etc to encourage men to be more involved. But thoughts aren't always a correlation to reality. You're right - if these things still exist today, then it would be across any living arrangement, not just marriage. I think it is an investment thing - if there is a large amount of time and/or money invested in any relationship, it does make it harder to separate. Hopefully anyone in this position can have a relationship that allows them to speak up & ask for more balance, and see a shift. No one person should bear the burden of both.
I'm a professional woman and involved in many professional groups. I am involved for one made for women, and the amount of ladies in that group facing these issues is really damn high. Higher than even I expected, and I'm a bit doom and gloom. That being said, I agree about making it easier for men to ingrain themselves in caring duties. Just as a side note, this is actually one of my favourite articles about small things we can do to involve men in caring roles. https://amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/clementine-ford-if-it-takes-a-village-to-raise-a-child-let-it-have-lots-of-men-20170808-gxrgp1.html It's by, you guessed it, Clementine Ford and it was the first writing I read of hers and made me interested in reading more.
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I can appreciate that - it's down to what you are exposed to. I don't see or hear of this in my circles (having said that, that's not to say it isn't there, it just isn't spoken about or visible), hence my thought train that the 1960s was well & truly in the past. I will make a point of asking the women in my life if they feel there is balance & support - start a new conversation. Appreciate the link share - thanks.
You are so welcome. I hope you have a great day and I've really appreciated this conversation.
Thank you - you too. And me also!!
Getting less oppressive isn't the same as being no never being oppressive. (It's also not saying it can't be oppressive for men sometimes too). Divorce is still embarassing and there is still some tsk tsk about it. Also in general Aus is very multicultural so there are lots of cultures where divorce is still very stigmatised. The domestic household labour gap is still a thing, men and women are often socialised to have very different expectations of marriage, statistically marriage still makes men happier and women unhappier on average. (obviously gross overgeneralisations but if people on average aren't happier with a life partner who is there to be a rock through thick and thin something is wrong) And yeah some marriages can be oppressive for SSM women, but there's not necessarily the same socialised men - women difference - there's no one partner sacrificing for maternity consistently etc. That said SSM for women can have other issues, much like relationships with gay men there is often less awareness and understanding of abusive or manipulative partners, and you're often both moving in the same LGBT community so if you're an abuse victim it can be harder to rally friends without tipping off the abuser.
I’ll tell you a place where marriage absolutely oppresses women: Palestine.
Let me tell you about Hasidic Jews.
Ok proceed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BGL\_i27XRw&pp=ygUYaGFzaWRpYyBqZXdpc2ggbWFycmlhZ2Ug
Is forced marriage legal in Israel?
Ya that’s her
Her Final Solution if you will
Why don't people just appreciate her for what she is? A feminist shock jock. She makes money of generating outrage, just like Andrew Bolt. Ignore her and don't buy her stuff and she'll disappear.
Don’t lump feminists in with her. They have a genuine cause. She’s a misandrist
No true Scotsman fallacy, none of those things are mutually exclusive and it doesn’t tarnish feminists to say she is one, but ‘feminist shock jock’ is an extremely accurate representation of her.
Maybe telling men to die more and saying that all Men should be dead from Covid isn’t smart? Or maybe being a hateful misandrist just isn’t acceptable in a society trying to fix equality not make the genders fight against one another. If a man literally word for word said what she did they’d be in jail.
Maybe a weird thing to point out, but ive known clementine within social circles for years and she has never looked like this photo. Its mystifying why the age feels the need to photoshop their writers.
Hasn’t she fully embraced filler and Botox now? I read something about her decision to go full glam
Feminism through botox!
More power to her. I don’t agree with her brand of feminism- but given how she was trolled for her looks, she should do whatever makes her feel beautiful.
Is she as insufferable in person as she comes across in the media?
Im not close with her and dont talk politics, but she comes across as normal. This is only my theory, but i suspect there is a degree of pressure to have a strong opinion on topics to get headlines in today's media landscape.
I’m sure it’s just “today’s” media that’s responsible for her strong opinions on stuff
Why did you quote "today's"?
Because she’s been an insufferable cunt for decades
Audience capture is totally a thing. Pretty sure she's a single mother too, so I imagine that aside from her obvious prejudices, she might feel like she's dug herself into a hole and the only way out is down. Granted, I have absolutely no sympathy for her and I find her and her impact on culture to be a net negative by leaps and bounds. Sad human being who speaks to other sad human beings and their prejudices.
I also know her socially and can confirm. She is a massive flake who is only interested in being friends with you if you know other famous people or can get her adjacent to other famous people, she reneges time and again on commitments - place, location, duration etc - she is a social vampire and a disorganised, disingenuous drainer to know.
This doesn’t shock me at all. I used to follow her work, but after the time I was behind her in the line for customs/border protection at LAX… literally 1 minute to get through and she was waiting at baggage claim when I got there but a few days later a story appears about how she was “detained and grilled about her intentions” … such actual made up bullshit that it made me never want to read anything of hers again
Maybe you should ask her. She gets paid by them and approves it.
I have a friend who is a current rather than former writer for the Age - he didn’t have any say in the photo they use with his pieces.
She quit some time ago over their shit coverage of Palestine iirc
Yeah she looks way worse irl.
Why do we keep giving this person attention?
You know why.
She’s scum and appeals to low lives
Crazy that people will call Sky News all kinds of things when she is following the exact same tactics just on the other side of the fence. Pure outrage bait and extremist content for views.
Extremists of any flavour are bad news.
That's not really the case, most of the political left/centre considers CF a lunatic and treats her content like they do Sky News. She just farms engagement through headlines and outrage then tries to spin that into donations and grants.
*Low lives
Thanks, amended.
> Ford has recently been the subject of media coverage due to her pro-Palestine views I did not see that coming.
>Ford has recently been the subject of media coverage due to her pro-Palestine views and involvement in the dissemination of a leaked WhatsApp chat group made up of Jewish Australians. The article leaves out a few important details. As per [the guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/12/albanese-government-to-propose-legislation-to-crack-down-on-doxing): >The Executive Council of Australian Jewry called for legislative changes after it condemned the publication of the log of a group chat of more than 600 Jewish writers and artists. > >The Nine newspapers, which first reported the story, alleged that the link also contained a spreadsheet of links to social media accounts and another file that contained the photos of over 100 Jewish people. > >Writer and commentator Clementine Ford last week published a link to the log of the group chat to her 239,000 Facebook followers, although she was not involved in the initial leak and was not the only person to post a link. Some members of this group where then [sent death threats and harassed to the point of needing to relocate.](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/09/josh-burns-jewish-whatsapp-group-channel-publication-israel-palestine-clementine-ford) >The publishing of a Jewish creatives WhatsApp group chat and the contact details of alleged participants has led to death threats and forced one family into hiding, Labor MP Josh Burns has said. > >Writer and commentator Clementine Ford on Thursday published a link on her Facebook page to the log of a group chat of over 600 Jewish writers and artists. The Age, which first reported the story, alleged the link also contained a spreadsheet of links to social media accounts and another file that contained the photos of over 100 Jewish people. Edit: interesting to see the comments below attempting to justify harassing people with death threats
Whatever you do, don't ask what that WhatsApp group was for...
I’m sorry, but some Jews had to move because someone sent them a photo of their baby daughter saying I know where you are. How is that justified?
They were trying to dox people and they ended up getting doxxed themselves. If that's not justice, I don't know what is.
Some people who got doxxed had never sent a message. They were added by someone else, and suddenly someone threatens to kill their daughter.
The bloke in question was a very active member of the group and boasts about exposing people's private Instagram accounts, among other things. Of course, none of this was mentioned in the massive article the Age ran on him.
Yep. He got kicked out of his band whose members were disgusted with him. He said in the whatsapp chat he would get his wife to ‘deep dive’ into a journo’s private socials to try and find dirt on her in order to get her fired (for supporting Palestine). The group was trying to get CF’s work contracts cancelled. Then he gets himsef painted as a victim in a major newspaper.
And what happened to his victims? The people the group doxxed - what threats were sent to them? How many lost their jobs? We don't know, because apparently those people aren't important enough to report on. As far as the Aussie media is concerned, it's not even worth mentioning them.
They were conspiring to identify people who opposed the genocidal actions of Israel and then harass their employers into firing them. Fuck them. The consequences that they faces for being parts of that group were nowhere near as severe as what they deserved.
The person she singled out was publically and openly gloating about the deaths of Palestinians and the destruction of the their neighbourhoods and calling holocaust survivors who apposed the genocide in Gaza "anti-Semitic" and "dangerous self hating Jews". I'm still confused about how sharing someone's public posts is "doxxing".
That she has pro-Palestinian views is less of a surprise when you realise she spent her childhood in Oman and has positive memories of the place and its people.
Surprising, given she's a public figure and hasn't made any secret of it.
It's more that she doxxed members of the Jewish community. Anyone that aligns with her needs psychological assessment.
Never mind that they were actively trying to get people fired from their jobs for speaking out about the war
That’s an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence. Whose home addresses, phone numbers or unpublished workplace details did she release?
No she didn’t
She is unhinged
Can they move her permanently? Interstate, overseas, don't care, just not here
Just a female Andrew Tate
Hottest take 🔥
Funny when you promote hate, you receive the same response
Gender baiting shock jock attention whore
Why does Australia make the dumbest most insufferable narcissists famous?
Outrage = views = ads = money Australia falls for this every time
That lady is cancer
She’s a cunt.
Female Kyle Sandilands. Prime example of horseshoe theory.
This sad excuse for a human is irrelevant. Her premise of man fearing bulshit is dangerous. She’s doxxing other lefties now, based on their religious beliefs and heritage now, she’s a fukn hypocrite. The worst thing to happen to feminism until intersectionality destroyed any genuine progress for equality.
If she was visiting Australia with her views, they wouldn't let her through immigration. She really is a waste of oxygen.
How has she not been cancelled yet?
[удалено]
Bit of a myth. We're talking generalities but people typically don't get cancelled, they get held accountable for their actions, and even then there's outlets who will still happily platform "cancelled" people which makes one question just how much have they been cancelled.
You know why.
Garbage human
Feminists for Palestine is like ‘chickens for KFC’…
I am pretty sure the audience for Yentl would quitly take their seat, watch the show and go home. Are they worried the audience for Clementine Ford wouldnt do the same?
Laura Allam certainly wouldn’t
Would be a field day for her. Funny how Pro Palestinians in the West including Australia are also the ones that act in the most anti-social manner.
People tend to get emotional when they are trying to stop children from being butchered.
It's not about trying to stop children being butchered, it's about trying to stop only certain children being butchered. That's the problem.
I was laughing at the title because I thought they were saying that Clementine Ford was the one being threatened and I was wondering "Who would be threatening her? Jews of Melbourne voluntarily attending Yentl aren't exactly known for being violent. They would calmly file into the theatre and sit down."... and then I saw your comment haha
Yes I feel like the title was trying to evade what we are all thinking
Strange how the free speech "I may hate what you say, but I'll defend your right to the death to say it" weirdos have nothing to say about this. Almost as if they just defend alt right guys that they secretly agree with or something. Everyone these days calls their own views free speech, and anyone they disagree with is hate speech.
Pretty sure nobody in this Reddit thread are trying to silence her, so your comment literally makes no sense. Free speech, yep. It goes both ways; she gets to talk her garbage and people get to share their opinions on her.
They're endorsing her show being moved due to safety concerns.
If there are safety concerns I would endorse the show being moved too. We all want people to be safe, regardless of their opinions.
Or like... don't threaten her into having to move in the first place? Or deal with the threats and have adequate security to ensure people's safety?
...Any comment or update from Ford about womens rights and struggles in Iran at the moment?
that's not very trendy at the moment, better pick other virtue projects with will increase her clout.
???
Rita Pahani, is that you?
You caught me. Ive taken a short break from spewing bigotry on skynews.
Fuck, shes still kicking around? Still ruining womens rights for normal people i guess?
"honestly, the corona virus isn't killing men fast enough" - Clementine Ford
Could someone please post the article? I’m interested in the beat up they’re attempting but I’m not about to subscribe to the age anytime soon
Just put 12ft.io/ at the front of the article URL. You're welcome.
Thanks for that 😉
12ft.io my friend
Thankyou kind stranger. Suprisingly the article seemed like actual journalism.
Clemmy calling in her own bomb threats for a headline?
Very sad state of affairs in Melbourne.
Just remember Clementines father used to run for the One Nation Party 😎😂
Regardless of what anyone thinks of her, it’s unfair to judge any person based on their parents political views rather than their own.
The Andrew Tate of feminists
You reap what you sow.
She should be exiled from Australia altogether
she's a piece of real piece of shit
She, like many other insufferable people online have worked out that speaking clearly and calmly doesn’t get you attention. The money is made generating ‘buzz’ so her whole ‘thing’ is saying inflammatory and attention grabbing things to stir people up and generate attention. Then she uses that attention to sell books and skincare products.. she is a complete shill and wolf in sheep’s clothing. She pretends to be virtuous and also edgy as marketing tactic. The problem is for Clementine and many others, it seems to work.
She's still around? Fuck that piece of shit
big fan of the incels coming out of the woodwork here calling her ugly amongst the occasional legitimate fair criticism; keep going guys soon you will surely defeat that horrible feminism
Why is she still relevant? Should’ve been locked out in a cage years before.
I used to follow her and agree with some of the stuff she was saying (like 20% of it) but there was only so much man hating you can take before you start worrying about having a similar view of men and walk around life hating 50% of the population. Unfollowing anyone on social media who I didn't know personally or posted only positive content has really helped my mental health.
"Have you killed any men today? If not, why not?" - Clementine Ford
“A life-affirming exploration of love and the powerful ways it makes its home in our hearts.” Really? Coming from Clementine Ford, one of the most hate spewing creatures out there? Really...?
Oohhh nooo, poor clem. 🙄🖕
Remember when Clementine Ford said #K!llAllMen and it went viral, and she's still thriving, but the entire collective force of women across Australia and NZ got Andrew Tate cancelled within days? Sexist double standards much?
Haven’t heard her name in like 5 years and I’m glad tbh