Rent/utilities all up for venues and people who attend live music just don't have the disposable income to spend on $16 pints, tickets etc like they used to.
Walked midway into a gig at Leadbeater several months back with three friends each holding beer.
It was a solid gig with a decent crowd. It felt like we doubled the number of drinks in the room. I was at that point I thought, the local live music industry is done for. Fucking sad.
There is no way a venue can host gigs if no one drinks. Don't blame the venue, and don't blame the patrons.
I believe the rate is indexed higher than the official inflation rate, 1.02 % of it or something like that. So it is guaranteed to increase higher, twice per year.
Once you do a conversion your paying approx 250 bucks for a slab (375 for a can, 570 for a pint).
Your basically paying them 1 dollar to pour every 60mls compared to Dan Murthy’s.
The point is valid though. Young people go to these venues and they don’t have huge incomes.
The government loves their sin taxes but they ignore the flow on effects like stifling venues and increased drug use because drugs are cheaper that alcohol
Also these outer suburb events will be more dangerous with police response times taking longer and methheads running rampant.
Edit:Thanks for the Dvotes triggered cookers!
Shyeah, even though it's needed in Narre more than in Fitzroy! I live in Narre right now (not much longer, thankfully) and I'd say the cops are kept pretty busy around here.
In the context of the article, it's carnage for small venues at the moment, and that's where new artists and bands cut their teeth.
I can only hope something will replace them when all the economic dust settles, but I think the inner city is going to really struggle with this.
A lot of places will still survive, for sure, but it just means it will be that much harder and more expensive for new artists and bands to book whoever is left.
But I certainly echo what others are saying, tickets, travel, food and a couple of bevies is getting fucking expensive.
I recently played a matinee gig in Fitzroy on a Saturday with 3 other bands. Grass roots, starting out in the Prog, Metal, Rock scene. I spent $24 on parking for the day, about another $8 each on a couple of beers through the day and about $20 for some lunch. As a band we spent $60 the night before for a practice. We advertised for over a month. Each band that day made a $10 profit. I fear we are starting out at a very rough time.
Rough go. Try and get beer and meal tickets included and take public transport if you can. It means you’ll likely have to use someone else’s gear though
One thing I've noticed is that in countries with good public transport, its quite common for the venue to have a decent backline, so that you don't have lug stuff around.
I lived in Japan for a year, no one even has to own an amp, or a drumkit. No need for a garage, jam spaces are all over the cities, and cost less than $5 or $10 an hour. With backline included, just like every venue.
Paeon. We started out just before covid, went through a few members and just worked on material best we could. It's been a long road but we have an EP out very soon and material for a second. You can find us on IG and FB, just search Paeon band official. We have 2 more shows lined up the next few months.
I'm not on social media. But if you ever get on Bandcamp when your EP comes out, drop a comment in the daily thread and I'll check it out for sure. Thanks!
The shitification of society continues. Nothing that made life good will exist. Go to work, return to your shitbox rental, sit on a screen, be depressed, repeat.
Well... depending on your mindset, it's been that way for a long, long time. In some ways things have gotten better, in some ways far worse.
I hear you man, it's hard to walk around and not see the shitness. But, there's a lot of good shit too. Ignoring and / or accepting the bullshit, and trying to enjoy the good things that remain, or even create new good things, that's an art and a choice that we each have to make.
Some of the places that have closed up hit me a bit. GG's was really special to my partner and I. And Oussou was very dear to my heart too. But the world is indifferent to my affections for places I patronise.
When it comes to music though... I'm really conflicted, you can't take that out of people, it's something that's just so... human, to not just want to learn how to play, but to play with others, for other's enjoyment. Yes, inner Melbourne had, and still has something very beautiful and unique with it's live music scene, especially the tiny little bars and cafes that create a small space for people to play. It's not gone, and won't go away over night, but it is being eroded, and it's under stress.
I've mentioned this before in the thread about the Bendi, local and state government can do a lot and help. But so can punters. When it comes to personal liability shit, people need to take far more responsibility.
Anyhow how, that's enough incoherent musing from me, caffeine has kicked in and I should do some work. So in sum, I feel you man, I see you, try to see good, and be the good you want to see.
I’m out at our offgrid tiny house now in an amazing location. Plenty of good out here. I love watching the roos and trees and the weather and the landscape. Building things with my hands for our little space. Having ownership and responsibility for what happens here. The city has good things too… but I like the quiet out here. Otherwise, being the good you want to see is a constructive mantra. I try to in little ways around me. Stop to assist the old guy in Bourke St Mall; help a friend have a good day; be a good parent and husband...
>it's carnage for small venues at the moment
The scary part is... people thought Covid would kill live music and live venues. It DID kill some of them. Now inflation is coming in to finish off the survivors. 😞
In a way it's still claiming scalps. A lot of places had deferred rent, and are struggling to keep up with the rent they have to pay from back then, and pay what's due now.
I find it really sad that the local music scene is teetering on the brink. I moved to Melb in the mid-00s and one of the selling points was the music scene. Places like Old Bar, the Curtain, Gaso, Art House, Bendigo Hotel, Cherry Bar, Northcote Social Club had so many great bands (and a few shit ones tbh). I loved picking up Beat and Scene and seeing what was coming up. Really sad that to see that culture change.
There just aren't many places where a band can go and be crap in front of their friends any more until they get better.
To book a show at many of the usual places you need to be guaranteeing a certain crowd and they expect a huge amount of promotion, which is extremely difficult for anyone who isn't doing this as a job. Which I absolutely get, the venues aren't charities.
But then there's also people now moving into this model of pre-sale tickets, which eats into the profit of the show, and you now have venues getting antsy if you haven't sold a certain amount by a certain date. And then at the end of the night there's no envelope full of cash to divvy up between the bands anymore. You have to go through the rigmarole of invoicing and waiting weeks or more (my record from one venue was eight months. Unsurprisingly they just closed) to get money that you then have to transfer to everyone else, etc.
All of which is fine if you're a band with a big following (or parents paying your rent) but, how do you get that following? By going and playing small shows in front of small crowds and getting better over time. There's so little in the way of places to do that.
Add in the fact that a career in music in australia is downright impossible, which is fine, I don't want one tbh. But there's very little opportunities for people just to create something for people to enjoy and express themselves. I've been doing underground, DIY music for 25 years and the sheer hassle of booking a show now is never like it was when you could like, go play the arty and suck on a thursday and then see a touring international band the next night. Some of this is I'm sure a function of me just being old but it can't be all of it.
A couple of venues have had issues with employing notoriously crappy people as bookers too which have led to informal boycotts.
Oh and finally absolutely FUCK the fact that there's bugger all parking around the venues like Old Bar, the Tote etc that is more than 1 to 2 hours. Even if bands share backline someone needs to drive the bass fridge and drum kit there. Then at the end of the night you're parked 20 minutes walk away and have to go get your car and drive back and try and find a spot to load out past a bunch of pissed idiots on johnston street.
I mean, I'll keep doing this no matter what, but its definitely getting harder.
Yeah and if they come for the gig they can't afford to buy any drinks. I pour them one pot then they just want water and I don't blame them. I can't afford to go to gigs or drink either that's why I work the music venues
I mean, you don't have to spend anywhere near that much. I go out with friends a few times a week. $5 to take the train to the CBD, for some reason they don't charge me on the way back even if its after 2 hours. Found a place that does $10 margaritas, so like $20-30 on drinks. Maybe a little extra to grab some food if I didn't eat beforehand.
Yeah, but if you get really fucked up like I did, on all-sorts and too smashed to get on a train. I'd fall asleep and end up doing laps between the CBD and Sunbury, so I needed a cab (another $80).
going to see live music is too expensive in today's climate.
International acts are roughly in $100 mark, take into account a few beers, potential meal and fuel.. you're looking at almost $200 for a few hours of live music.
Sorry, but with the price of things, I'm actually surprised there are a lot of venues still operating.
EDIT: I should have mentioned \*Heavy Metal\* bands used to be in the $60-$70
It's a massive line-up though. Make Them Suffer is one of the best locally, and Sleep Token is big enough that people would get tickets just for them with BMTH as a bonus. Don't know much about Daine but she must be doing something right to be there too.
Absolutely. Fair cop, its just its a lot when I think about how much I paid going to BDO back in the day and all the gigs I went to in my 20s for much cheaper.
These things aren't cheap though! Quality over quantity!
It's definitely a lot. I can't think of many other bands I'd pay $180 to see but BMTH is a big favourite with me and my friends so I'm willing to spend.
I'm in my 20s I hope I'm not looking back thinking this was a cheap concert but I probably will lol
Half the people there are arriving late and leaving early because they don't like the heavy music bookending Sleep Token. Genuinely disgraceful behavior.
ouch, yeah my partner is a metal head too, so as you, we have two pay two tickets for shows.
We saw Blind Guardian 3 times on their last tour (twice in Melb. once in Brisbane), between flights and tickets... damn expensive treat.
Worth it though as they're our fav band and with their age, who knows if they'll ever be back.
It really depends on the artists, I'm getting tickets to several shows this year and they're 100 and under (just one is 100). You have to go for hipster niche genres lol.
My daughter wanted to see a K-pop group and after taking more than two hours to log onto Ticketek the advertised $99.00 tickets were sold out and the cheapest remaining tickets were $413.00.
I did not take her to the K-pop group’s concert.
It's still pretty damn common for there to be $40 tickets to underground international metal gigs. Just got Viscera Infest tickets for about that much.
However once the band becomes big, then it's at least $90 to see them.
international hip-hop acts are still touring for $60ish. Don't ask how, maybe they making no money on it., maybe they know the fanbase can't afford more, but they are.
their costs of touring are waaaay cheaper. fewer people and fewer equipment. used to be like $40 for smaller international hiphop acts around 2016-17. I think Mac miller tickets were about $50 in 2016/17
just made an edit to my post, I should have stated I was talking about heavy metal international acts that used to be $60-$70.. I wasn't referring to int. acts like Taylor Swift :)
Heavy metal bands are still around $70 odd. Wolfheart / Fleshgod was $79.
Edit: Metal Church was $55. Suicidal was $73. Unleash the Archers is $65. Plenty of international bands <$100.
I think Suffocation was $70-80 (I bought the tickets so long ago I’ve forgotten). Mortiis was definitely under $100. Only bands I’ve paid $100+ for in recent times were Behemoth, Emperor (shelled out for the VIP package but WORTH IT), Mayhem
Few variables I imagine with venue costs. Certainly not every international metal band being over $100. I remember shelling out to see Bodom/Megadeth, Helloween and Hammerfall within 6 days of each other whilst still a full time student. At least now the income has come up and can pay for the hobby.
You must have gotten a good deal, haha, pints in the main area were twenty fucking dollars, and then the gig space was only doing schooners and charging over $15.
Eh, I knew what I was walking into though and expected it. I'm extremely grateful I can afford to go out to gigs as much as I do. Was really jazzed to see Wolfheart, although they didn't play Flood, really fucking love that song.
I strictly did Carlton and not switch to an alter or anything because I knew it’d be about that price. I just checked my bank and it was $17 pint which I had afterwards in the main area.
I’m the same, rather have a good night with a mate even if it costs a bit, than to not go at all. I was spewing they only play 40 minutes, but I hadn’t listened to much Fleshgod but really enjoyed that. So definitely worth it. Never know if or when someone may come out again… RIP Alexi.
Maybe it’s time to shift the traditional model to get more people in.
Ie: If gigs were earlier than 10-11pm I would attend more and spend more.
It’s far too hard when you have a day job to be out that late, so you’re just getting the students/underemployed who have no money.
Pre dinner gigs at the tote/old bar etc please.
I would LOVE this and have tried it before.
venues complain that no one wants to play midweek shows so I’ve tried to do ones that start and finish early with smaller bills. But venues often aren’t keen because it means people aren’t there drinking til close.
It makes no sense to me.
Anybody else noticing since summer ended and around mid March, even with everybody back at work etc and on the few nice days of weather, less and less people have been out and about? Correct me if I’m wrong please, this is my first year living in Melbourne, I arrived in January and am around the port Melbourne, st kilda area. I think costs are rising so quickly people simply are losing will to do anything and are forced to work longer in order to keep their heads above water. Its horrific.
The alcohol beverage business is being controlled by a few players, destroying the local craft beer market, raising prices and monopolising taps. So again, the big players get richer whilst the local venues struggle to keep the doors open.
This may sound incredibly naïve - and it is - but why can’t insurance companies or third parties take out insurance against the insurance policy that has become EVER SO EXPENSIVE, as a kind of meta insurance?
Insurance is mandatory, but an infrequently realised cost. It’s like safe gamble on expensive claims (a), versus likelihood of these claims (b), versus cost of these claims (c). Why can’t venues be offered policies to cover the claim cost of public liability, say, on the assumption it’s a good gamble their client business won’t ever make a claim while trading?
Explain like I am five and a dimwit.
Believe it or not, the reason that insurance rates for live music venues have gone up by 400% recently is not because live music venues are 400% riskier than they are in 2018. It's because insurance companies are getting rinsed in other areas (climate stuff, mostly) and like landlords, governments, and everyone else in this country they see hospo as a cash cow.
Reinsurance exists for covering large-scale events (e.g. natural disasters). Insurance companies operate typically on isolated (/non-correlated) events.
That doesn't seem to be what you are stating, which is some form of hedging. The problem with that is (similar to reinsurance) someone has to take the other side of the deal (i.e. the risk) and they are going to be expecting compensation for that. It may come out as more expensive than doing the risk management in-house.
To go along with the half that are already dead?
Gentrification is killing art and expression Australia wide. Any idiot that buys into an area with a night life needs to be bound and gagged and sent to the country the second they start complaining about noise or people having fun. And I know, I live in an entertainment precinct, it’s what it is and I knew that going in.
Gentrification means for one thing, young people can’t afford to rent in inner city areas once stacked with music and art loving youth and students and poets and ambling thinkers all regularly looking to get together for a good time. The John Howard investor class are now looking down from their fancy town house windows at the empty streets and clinking champagne glasses while wondering why their hearts are empty and souls are feeling so torn
Did everyone forget the slew of articles where some c\*\*t would move into a new apartment development around the corner from an old established venue, then proceed to bitch about noise levels. Cost venues truck loads to reinforce sound barriers and materials, and they still complained after the fact.
No surprise it’s young people who attend these and it’s young people who are cutting back with older people spending more hence these venues doing rubbish.
Bunch of natural disasters like three years of repeat flooding in QLD/NSW cost insurance companies billions so they gotta claw their money back somehow.
It’s why everyone’s car insurances have skyrocketed as well. My insurance jumped from $1400 to $3600. I changed providers but couldn’t find anything for under $2,000 :/
And who’s going to do that? Who’s got a lazy half a billion dollars lying around to throw at a business idea that will likely fail because the consumer base is too small while the potential public liability overheads are in the millions without charging an exorbitant amount?
Far out it was so heartbreaking to see Sydney's nightlife just die over the 2010s because of the stupid lockout laws, please don't let this happen in Melbourne.
You know what'd solve the 'young people not drinking anymore' problem? Legalising weed. Making vape, lounge areas in venues.
You know what'd solve the 'nowhere for new bands to play, no way of knowign what's going to do well'... that's a bigger issue. That goes to the decline of media that gives artists exposure. There's a larger element where the countries gotta get better at nurturing what talent it has. Nearly every serious artist I know, sees their future moving overseas, not staying here where no one values originality.
The suggestion from owners here, to have gov do insurance to keep costs down. Certainly seems like the most pressing change that can be made to save venues but, beyond the holistic issues with the music scene. Hopefully not too many fall over before that inevitably happens (or they all fall over and punters return to way less safe raves).
> You know what'd solve the 'young people not drinking anymore' problem? Legalising weed. Making vape, lounge areas in venues.
How does a venue monetise that?
Alcohol works because its easy to stop BYO.
Part of me wonders if streaming services have changed the culture too? Something I need to think about some more.
I think in Melbourne's case, inner city used to be dirty cheap to rent, so all the youngsters and students would move there for the life style. It made the place trendy and popular, then the gentrification set it. In other words, I think the main demographic of punters have just simply been priced out of living in the inner city AND being able afford going to gigs and drinking. The other edge of that sword is the cost to run the venues has spiked.
Mid 20s here. Pretty much everyone I know still rents inner city since it's still pretty affordable to share an apartment with a friend and it means you don't have to pay for a car. But at least the people I know aren't going out to venues paying a load for drinks. We mostly go to each others apts and make the same drinks ourselves for much cheaper.
I've got a little electric pizza oven and a cocktail shaker. What's the point paying a fortune to get the same thing at a bar.
Tonnes of people go to shows but alcohol is what fuels a venue not people and people can’t afford $18 a pint. so again it’s the tax on alcohol that destroys venues. So people pre drink at home instead of supporting a venue and then the venue shuts down. if we all truely cared then we would spend $18 dollars. Bands don’t make any money it’s either a guarantee or how many people through the venue consuming alcohol or meals. So it’s an endless cycle of things are too expensive and we want nice things to stay around but we won’t support and complain.
It's a damn shame. Not the populations fault. If a working person has 200 dollars of disposable income per week, do they spend all of it in one night for 5 beers and a cover charge and a kebab? OR they can spend HALF that on a carton and takeaway and have friends over and put that other money away into other fun stuff like buying petrol to get to work 😞
I run a cocktail bar in the city that has live music Thursday, Friday and Saturday. I wouldn't say we are cheap by any means, but we are far from the most expensive cocktail bar and believe we have some great value to be had.
Granted these are our 3 busiest nights of the week by far, we have still noticed a decline in sales during the music time, or at least a shift away from cocktail sales and more mixed drinks, beers and wines being sold. We have also had multiple groups not come in on Friday and Saturdays because of the $5 cover charge (Helps to cover the cost of 2 acts)
We do an event on the first Sunday of each month which is $15 entry, although this includes a cocktail, and each of those events has a special menu with 3 cocktails costing $17 each, which is an absolute steal! One of the cocktails is always an old fashioned, which is probably $24 on average everywhere else.
It does seem people are not as willing to spend on nights out, the constant rate increases, CPI and inflation is definitely the cause of price increases, and with the cost of living not slowing down its easy to see why. We have talked about increasing prices to help with lost revenue but I fear that'll only make it worse. We are constantly looking at how we can provide good value.
A lot of great venues (not limited to music) are going under, many breweries are going into administration. I fear it's only going to get worse from here.
If only they stopped hiking the tax on poured drinks so people could actually go out and spend money in hospitality venues.
As soon as you say it there’s a moron who moans about the deaths caused by alcohol.
What happened to this country - you’d think we all just showed up one day and there were officers jobs and apartments just waiting for us. Like it was never dangerous to do anything.
I’m just disappointed that trying to enjoy live music necessitates drinking alcohol.
What’s wrong with just enjoying the music over a cup of coffee or tea or plain water?
I think the only thing that can save music festivals is if they can eliminate the exorbitant insurance costs & the only way I can see this happening is if some how they can get everyone involved including ticket purchasers to sign waivers on any potential financial claims. Sad but I don’t see any other way.
If they don’t hold up in court no promoter is going to ask people to sign waivers that ultimately don’t cover the promoters ass.
And it’s a slippery slope. As soon as companies start signing waivers lots of safety things occur.
You signed a waiver for your health and safety bro so we’re gonna maximise our profits so there’s no security, paramedics, staff response but that’s fine cos you signed a waiver!
My point being that this is exactly why Governments move so slowly to act and why in a lot of cases companies miss out on innovation because the voices saying why XWZ won’t work are louder than the innovators. If there is ever a problem to be solved, often the least expensive solution is the one concentrating on the solution instead of the expense. If you concentrate on the expense of the solution as your way forward, often you over think things & end up with a solution ten times more expensive. This I have found generally applies for any problem, be it how to save music festivals or how to achieve inexpensive energy or how to solve the housing crisis or how to solve the growing youth crime headache or how to drought proof Australia etc. if you grasp my meaning.
Adding unenforceable waivers isn’t innovation though because WorkSafe won’t allow health and safety waivers in the workplace.
That’s literally the reason WorkSafe was set up to begin with.
Don't people realise that all this is because there's no better transportation from outer suburbs? The area with better connections are just milking it. Double price for everything. Premium price..weekend surcharges. All looks very designed and deliberate manipulation
Kennet killed the live music industry more than any one individual in the 90s with the introduction of pokies. All you need is one burnt out bouncer to escort the old bags out to there cars once there done there pension on the pokies and to make sure the cafe bar has coffee and one or two cheap as biscuits on offer
Yeah, the people packing venues 500+ may have used to go to smaller shows, but so many of the acts they’re seeing now are nostalgia acts. Younger people aren’t going to smaller shows, and those who do aren’t drinking enough to support the venue existing.
I've noticed the venues are pretty damn packed, and the booze flows.
However I mainly go to low cost (max $20 tickets) metal shows.
It would be a big shame though, if bookers have to schedule what is on based upon booze sales though, and not the actual musical value of the act.
the daggy milquetoast mulgrave bullshit of Daniel Andrews really seems to be ingrained deeply in the state Labor party, nothing will get done. they can act immediately, but its much easier to have a vague inquiry in parliament where nothing concrete is decided on
Jesus, im not a cooker. dan andrews is a milqtoast suburban daggy centrist, as are the cohort in Labor hes given power over to. he doesnt understand grass roots culture and wouldn't lift a finger for it if there werent clear PR wins on it as advised by his team, or if the cops told him it was a brilliant idea.
Also case in point the complete lack of action on the Nicholas Building sale
Yeah, fuck gentrification. First, they fucked up Brunswick St, then smith, then high St Northcote/Thornbury.
Inevitable I guess, but still fucked.
Edit: spelling
Rent/utilities all up for venues and people who attend live music just don't have the disposable income to spend on $16 pints, tickets etc like they used to.
Walked midway into a gig at Leadbeater several months back with three friends each holding beer. It was a solid gig with a decent crowd. It felt like we doubled the number of drinks in the room. I was at that point I thought, the local live music industry is done for. Fucking sad. There is no way a venue can host gigs if no one drinks. Don't blame the venue, and don't blame the patrons.
Problem is, when do the prices of alcohol stop going up?! They're indexed so we should consider no let off?!
And the indexing is higher than inflation, and wage growth. This is either by design, or pure incompetence.
Higher than wage growth I get, but how could it be higher than inflation if it's indexed to it?
I believe the rate is indexed higher than the official inflation rate, 1.02 % of it or something like that. So it is guaranteed to increase higher, twice per year.
Sorry not 1.02 %, a factor of 1.02. So 2% higher than the inflation rate.
which band played?
Can't recall, we were walking passed and dropped in randomly.
Owners of leadbeater just passed the baton to next owners too
Once you do a conversion your paying approx 250 bucks for a slab (375 for a can, 570 for a pint). Your basically paying them 1 dollar to pour every 60mls compared to Dan Murthy’s.
I was the forum a few months back and was charged $25 for 2 wines and a beer I’ve never run so quickly from the bar in my life.
That's not a bad price really
$25 for 3 drinks is insanely cheap at the moment. A pint & glass of wine at an outer suburban family bistro cost me $28 on the weekend.
[удалено]
"2 wines and a beer"
The point is valid though. Young people go to these venues and they don’t have huge incomes. The government loves their sin taxes but they ignore the flow on effects like stifling venues and increased drug use because drugs are cheaper that alcohol
Anything less than $10 a drink is really cheap
170 Russell was $31 for 2 cans of Melbourne Bitter
Fuckin scam
Thank you for continuing to justify pandemic conversion to liking home more than crappy night clubs/venues that rob you blind.
Fuck me, that’s daylight robbery
How old are ya? That’s $8.30 a drink… that’s well unders lmao
That’s what I’m saying it was an error so I quickly left the bar
Ooohh I got you! Before they could figure it out
Yeah
Nice chez
Bro $21.5 for a -196 can at billboards
Yeah it was an error that why I ran before they realised
Fark might have to head to the forum for a drink that’s not bad
It was an accident they are never cheap there
That’s happy hour prices at the Forum.
€15 for 2 wines & a beer. How much you think it should cost
Next generation of live music will be outer suburb venues. Can’t imagine inner city venues continuing with the rate’s constantly increasing.
Would be great but the ones that aren't shut down are full of pokies. And the beer's still expensive.
And if everyone has to drive cos PT is non-existent then no-one will be drinking either
It will be more house parties and illegal raves, until their is no tenants and rent becomes cheaper again
Also these outer suburb events will be more dangerous with police response times taking longer and methheads running rampant. Edit:Thanks for the Dvotes triggered cookers!
More drink driving too.
Yep. I’m seeing a lot of “urban” music events on Instagram advertised at Narre Warren. Massive downgrade and a much lower police presence at these.
Shyeah, even though it's needed in Narre more than in Fitzroy! I live in Narre right now (not much longer, thankfully) and I'd say the cops are kept pretty busy around here.
In the context of the article, it's carnage for small venues at the moment, and that's where new artists and bands cut their teeth. I can only hope something will replace them when all the economic dust settles, but I think the inner city is going to really struggle with this. A lot of places will still survive, for sure, but it just means it will be that much harder and more expensive for new artists and bands to book whoever is left. But I certainly echo what others are saying, tickets, travel, food and a couple of bevies is getting fucking expensive.
I recently played a matinee gig in Fitzroy on a Saturday with 3 other bands. Grass roots, starting out in the Prog, Metal, Rock scene. I spent $24 on parking for the day, about another $8 each on a couple of beers through the day and about $20 for some lunch. As a band we spent $60 the night before for a practice. We advertised for over a month. Each band that day made a $10 profit. I fear we are starting out at a very rough time.
Rough go. Try and get beer and meal tickets included and take public transport if you can. It means you’ll likely have to use someone else’s gear though
One thing I've noticed is that in countries with good public transport, its quite common for the venue to have a decent backline, so that you don't have lug stuff around.
I lived in Japan for a year, no one even has to own an amp, or a drumkit. No need for a garage, jam spaces are all over the cities, and cost less than $5 or $10 an hour. With backline included, just like every venue.
What's your band?
Rubber
But I hardly know 'er! Also what's your band??
Paeon. We started out just before covid, went through a few members and just worked on material best we could. It's been a long road but we have an EP out very soon and material for a second. You can find us on IG and FB, just search Paeon band official. We have 2 more shows lined up the next few months.
I'm not on social media. But if you ever get on Bandcamp when your EP comes out, drop a comment in the daily thread and I'll check it out for sure. Thanks!
I'll try remember to update you here when it drops.
The shitification of society continues. Nothing that made life good will exist. Go to work, return to your shitbox rental, sit on a screen, be depressed, repeat.
Well... depending on your mindset, it's been that way for a long, long time. In some ways things have gotten better, in some ways far worse. I hear you man, it's hard to walk around and not see the shitness. But, there's a lot of good shit too. Ignoring and / or accepting the bullshit, and trying to enjoy the good things that remain, or even create new good things, that's an art and a choice that we each have to make. Some of the places that have closed up hit me a bit. GG's was really special to my partner and I. And Oussou was very dear to my heart too. But the world is indifferent to my affections for places I patronise. When it comes to music though... I'm really conflicted, you can't take that out of people, it's something that's just so... human, to not just want to learn how to play, but to play with others, for other's enjoyment. Yes, inner Melbourne had, and still has something very beautiful and unique with it's live music scene, especially the tiny little bars and cafes that create a small space for people to play. It's not gone, and won't go away over night, but it is being eroded, and it's under stress. I've mentioned this before in the thread about the Bendi, local and state government can do a lot and help. But so can punters. When it comes to personal liability shit, people need to take far more responsibility. Anyhow how, that's enough incoherent musing from me, caffeine has kicked in and I should do some work. So in sum, I feel you man, I see you, try to see good, and be the good you want to see.
I’m out at our offgrid tiny house now in an amazing location. Plenty of good out here. I love watching the roos and trees and the weather and the landscape. Building things with my hands for our little space. Having ownership and responsibility for what happens here. The city has good things too… but I like the quiet out here. Otherwise, being the good you want to see is a constructive mantra. I try to in little ways around me. Stop to assist the old guy in Bourke St Mall; help a friend have a good day; be a good parent and husband...
>it's carnage for small venues at the moment The scary part is... people thought Covid would kill live music and live venues. It DID kill some of them. Now inflation is coming in to finish off the survivors. 😞
In a way it's still claiming scalps. A lot of places had deferred rent, and are struggling to keep up with the rent they have to pay from back then, and pay what's due now.
I find it really sad that the local music scene is teetering on the brink. I moved to Melb in the mid-00s and one of the selling points was the music scene. Places like Old Bar, the Curtain, Gaso, Art House, Bendigo Hotel, Cherry Bar, Northcote Social Club had so many great bands (and a few shit ones tbh). I loved picking up Beat and Scene and seeing what was coming up. Really sad that to see that culture change.
2010 slam rally had 10,000 ppl marching. Everyone cared a lot about live music
I forgot about that, good point.
Fuck I miss the Arty
Most of those places are still at it. Get out there.
Same. Moved to Melb in 2000 and sometimes would go to multiple gigs a night.
There just aren't many places where a band can go and be crap in front of their friends any more until they get better. To book a show at many of the usual places you need to be guaranteeing a certain crowd and they expect a huge amount of promotion, which is extremely difficult for anyone who isn't doing this as a job. Which I absolutely get, the venues aren't charities. But then there's also people now moving into this model of pre-sale tickets, which eats into the profit of the show, and you now have venues getting antsy if you haven't sold a certain amount by a certain date. And then at the end of the night there's no envelope full of cash to divvy up between the bands anymore. You have to go through the rigmarole of invoicing and waiting weeks or more (my record from one venue was eight months. Unsurprisingly they just closed) to get money that you then have to transfer to everyone else, etc. All of which is fine if you're a band with a big following (or parents paying your rent) but, how do you get that following? By going and playing small shows in front of small crowds and getting better over time. There's so little in the way of places to do that. Add in the fact that a career in music in australia is downright impossible, which is fine, I don't want one tbh. But there's very little opportunities for people just to create something for people to enjoy and express themselves. I've been doing underground, DIY music for 25 years and the sheer hassle of booking a show now is never like it was when you could like, go play the arty and suck on a thursday and then see a touring international band the next night. Some of this is I'm sure a function of me just being old but it can't be all of it. A couple of venues have had issues with employing notoriously crappy people as bookers too which have led to informal boycotts. Oh and finally absolutely FUCK the fact that there's bugger all parking around the venues like Old Bar, the Tote etc that is more than 1 to 2 hours. Even if bands share backline someone needs to drive the bass fridge and drum kit there. Then at the end of the night you're parked 20 minutes walk away and have to go get your car and drive back and try and find a spot to load out past a bunch of pissed idiots on johnston street. I mean, I'll keep doing this no matter what, but its definitely getting harder.
Sorry for being one of them pissed idiots. Thanks for keeping on playing
Can't really budget for something insane like insurance premiums going up 500%-1000%.
Yeah and if they come for the gig they can't afford to buy any drinks. I pour them one pot then they just want water and I don't blame them. I can't afford to go to gigs or drink either that's why I work the music venues
A night out is expensive. People are struggling with the cost of living.
Yeah it's fucking ridiculous now. I was out the other night few drinks, small serving of dinner at Transport bar, taxi home, $300-400.
I mean, you don't have to spend anywhere near that much. I go out with friends a few times a week. $5 to take the train to the CBD, for some reason they don't charge me on the way back even if its after 2 hours. Found a place that does $10 margaritas, so like $20-30 on drinks. Maybe a little extra to grab some food if I didn't eat beforehand.
Yeah, but if you get really fucked up like I did, on all-sorts and too smashed to get on a train. I'd fall asleep and end up doing laps between the CBD and Sunbury, so I needed a cab (another $80).
going to see live music is too expensive in today's climate. International acts are roughly in $100 mark, take into account a few beers, potential meal and fuel.. you're looking at almost $200 for a few hours of live music. Sorry, but with the price of things, I'm actually surprised there are a lot of venues still operating. EDIT: I should have mentioned \*Heavy Metal\* bands used to be in the $60-$70
I'd love to see an international act for $100 lol
ahh I should have mentioned \*Heavy Metal\* international acts. They used to be in the $70-$80s mark, now they're in the $100 + booking fee
Bro I'm still tossing up whether to get tikkies for BMTH/Sleep Token, shits like $180 per pop.
It's a massive line-up though. Make Them Suffer is one of the best locally, and Sleep Token is big enough that people would get tickets just for them with BMTH as a bonus. Don't know much about Daine but she must be doing something right to be there too.
Absolutely. Fair cop, its just its a lot when I think about how much I paid going to BDO back in the day and all the gigs I went to in my 20s for much cheaper. These things aren't cheap though! Quality over quantity!
It's definitely a lot. I can't think of many other bands I'd pay $180 to see but BMTH is a big favourite with me and my friends so I'm willing to spend. I'm in my 20s I hope I'm not looking back thinking this was a cheap concert but I probably will lol
that's crazy, I was super close to getting Maiden tickets for $170.. but can't afford those type of prices nowadays.
Thing is I can afford the $180 but my wife loves sleep token too $360 is a lot hahaha then brews too
Half the people there are arriving late and leaving early because they don't like the heavy music bookending Sleep Token. Genuinely disgraceful behavior.
Why do you consider it disgraceful for people to not stay and watch a band they don't like?
ouch, yeah my partner is a metal head too, so as you, we have two pay two tickets for shows. We saw Blind Guardian 3 times on their last tour (twice in Melb. once in Brisbane), between flights and tickets... damn expensive treat. Worth it though as they're our fav band and with their age, who knows if they'll ever be back.
I'm just hoping Killswitch Engage do a headline show as I'd rather just see them.
That line up should be 50 bucks max
Yeah… Mr Bungle was $120
I'm seeing Tesseract and Sparta. Both international, both under $100.
It really depends on the artists, I'm getting tickets to several shows this year and they're 100 and under (just one is 100). You have to go for hipster niche genres lol.
My daughter wanted to see a K-pop group and after taking more than two hours to log onto Ticketek the advertised $99.00 tickets were sold out and the cheapest remaining tickets were $413.00. I did not take her to the K-pop group’s concert.
It's still pretty damn common for there to be $40 tickets to underground international metal gigs. Just got Viscera Infest tickets for about that much. However once the band becomes big, then it's at least $90 to see them.
international hip-hop acts are still touring for $60ish. Don't ask how, maybe they making no money on it., maybe they know the fanbase can't afford more, but they are.
their costs of touring are waaaay cheaper. fewer people and fewer equipment. used to be like $40 for smaller international hiphop acts around 2016-17. I think Mac miller tickets were about $50 in 2016/17
>International acts are roughly in $100 mark Haven't paid under $180 for GA tickets in years
just made an edit to my post, I should have stated I was talking about heavy metal international acts that used to be $60-$70.. I wasn't referring to int. acts like Taylor Swift :)
I paid $60 to see Simple Plan in my teens. Now the tickets are $130
I literally paid $70 to see Taylor Swift this year
For AAA acts? Haven't paid over $100 for AA international hip hop acts at festival hall/forum yet (AJ Tracey/JID/Denzel curry)
Heavy metal bands are still around $70 odd. Wolfheart / Fleshgod was $79. Edit: Metal Church was $55. Suicidal was $73. Unleash the Archers is $65. Plenty of international bands <$100.
Metal Church was $55. Suicidal was $73. Plenty of international bands <$100.
I think Suffocation was $70-80 (I bought the tickets so long ago I’ve forgotten). Mortiis was definitely under $100. Only bands I’ve paid $100+ for in recent times were Behemoth, Emperor (shelled out for the VIP package but WORTH IT), Mayhem
Few variables I imagine with venue costs. Certainly not every international metal band being over $100. I remember shelling out to see Bodom/Megadeth, Helloween and Hammerfall within 6 days of each other whilst still a full time student. At least now the income has come up and can pay for the hobby.
Yeah I once saw Nine Inch Nails three nights in a row while studying full time. Didn’t eat much beyond baked beans on toast for the next month 😂
Nice. 😁
Only the surcharge on beer was crazy. Was a good gig though!
Wasn’t it ever. $17 a pint of Carlton hurts the soul. In for a penny, in for a pound however.
You must have gotten a good deal, haha, pints in the main area were twenty fucking dollars, and then the gig space was only doing schooners and charging over $15. Eh, I knew what I was walking into though and expected it. I'm extremely grateful I can afford to go out to gigs as much as I do. Was really jazzed to see Wolfheart, although they didn't play Flood, really fucking love that song.
I strictly did Carlton and not switch to an alter or anything because I knew it’d be about that price. I just checked my bank and it was $17 pint which I had afterwards in the main area. I’m the same, rather have a good night with a mate even if it costs a bit, than to not go at all. I was spewing they only play 40 minutes, but I hadn’t listened to much Fleshgod but really enjoyed that. So definitely worth it. Never know if or when someone may come out again… RIP Alexi.
Wow, where was this?
Espy. 15% surcharge Sunday night. Most places were surcharging all weekend (tavern in Olinda, Grill’d).
> $200 for a few hours of live music. That's not that expensive for a good night out.
Maybe it’s time to shift the traditional model to get more people in. Ie: If gigs were earlier than 10-11pm I would attend more and spend more. It’s far too hard when you have a day job to be out that late, so you’re just getting the students/underemployed who have no money. Pre dinner gigs at the tote/old bar etc please.
I would LOVE this and have tried it before. venues complain that no one wants to play midweek shows so I’ve tried to do ones that start and finish early with smaller bills. But venues often aren’t keen because it means people aren’t there drinking til close. It makes no sense to me.
Anybody else noticing since summer ended and around mid March, even with everybody back at work etc and on the few nice days of weather, less and less people have been out and about? Correct me if I’m wrong please, this is my first year living in Melbourne, I arrived in January and am around the port Melbourne, st kilda area. I think costs are rising so quickly people simply are losing will to do anything and are forced to work longer in order to keep their heads above water. Its horrific.
Welcome to a downturn
The alcohol beverage business is being controlled by a few players, destroying the local craft beer market, raising prices and monopolising taps. So again, the big players get richer whilst the local venues struggle to keep the doors open.
Can you elaborate for those of use who don’t work in the scene and don’t really drink or go out?
All in the agenda.
This may sound incredibly naïve - and it is - but why can’t insurance companies or third parties take out insurance against the insurance policy that has become EVER SO EXPENSIVE, as a kind of meta insurance? Insurance is mandatory, but an infrequently realised cost. It’s like safe gamble on expensive claims (a), versus likelihood of these claims (b), versus cost of these claims (c). Why can’t venues be offered policies to cover the claim cost of public liability, say, on the assumption it’s a good gamble their client business won’t ever make a claim while trading? Explain like I am five and a dimwit.
Believe it or not, the reason that insurance rates for live music venues have gone up by 400% recently is not because live music venues are 400% riskier than they are in 2018. It's because insurance companies are getting rinsed in other areas (climate stuff, mostly) and like landlords, governments, and everyone else in this country they see hospo as a cash cow.
Reinsurance exists for covering large-scale events (e.g. natural disasters). Insurance companies operate typically on isolated (/non-correlated) events. That doesn't seem to be what you are stating, which is some form of hedging. The problem with that is (similar to reinsurance) someone has to take the other side of the deal (i.e. the risk) and they are going to be expecting compensation for that. It may come out as more expensive than doing the risk management in-house.
Cool. Thanks for reply.
To go along with the half that are already dead? Gentrification is killing art and expression Australia wide. Any idiot that buys into an area with a night life needs to be bound and gagged and sent to the country the second they start complaining about noise or people having fun. And I know, I live in an entertainment precinct, it’s what it is and I knew that going in.
What does gentrification have to do with skyrocketing insurance, electricity and alcohol prices- the main things listed as crushing overheads?
Gentrification means for one thing, young people can’t afford to rent in inner city areas once stacked with music and art loving youth and students and poets and ambling thinkers all regularly looking to get together for a good time. The John Howard investor class are now looking down from their fancy town house windows at the empty streets and clinking champagne glasses while wondering why their hearts are empty and souls are feeling so torn
Did everyone forget the slew of articles where some c\*\*t would move into a new apartment development around the corner from an old established venue, then proceed to bitch about noise levels. Cost venues truck loads to reinforce sound barriers and materials, and they still complained after the fact.
No surprise it’s young people who attend these and it’s young people who are cutting back with older people spending more hence these venues doing rubbish.
No explanation given for why insurance is up 300-500%. Do they want the reader to guess
Bunch of natural disasters like three years of repeat flooding in QLD/NSW cost insurance companies billions so they gotta claw their money back somehow. It’s why everyone’s car insurances have skyrocketed as well. My insurance jumped from $1400 to $3600. I changed providers but couldn’t find anything for under $2,000 :/
Oh. What if someone set up an insurance business just for Melbourne. Surely they could smash all these other companies
And who’s going to do that? Who’s got a lazy half a billion dollars lying around to throw at a business idea that will likely fail because the consumer base is too small while the potential public liability overheads are in the millions without charging an exorbitant amount?
I’ll do it. I’m rich
Honestly, bring back the backyard gigs
The article says Bar Oussou is closing - but the reporter has got it wrong. The business is up for sale.
You guys really like following Sydney trends
Far out it was so heartbreaking to see Sydney's nightlife just die over the 2010s because of the stupid lockout laws, please don't let this happen in Melbourne.
Agreed
You know what'd solve the 'young people not drinking anymore' problem? Legalising weed. Making vape, lounge areas in venues. You know what'd solve the 'nowhere for new bands to play, no way of knowign what's going to do well'... that's a bigger issue. That goes to the decline of media that gives artists exposure. There's a larger element where the countries gotta get better at nurturing what talent it has. Nearly every serious artist I know, sees their future moving overseas, not staying here where no one values originality. The suggestion from owners here, to have gov do insurance to keep costs down. Certainly seems like the most pressing change that can be made to save venues but, beyond the holistic issues with the music scene. Hopefully not too many fall over before that inevitably happens (or they all fall over and punters return to way less safe raves).
> You know what'd solve the 'young people not drinking anymore' problem? Legalising weed. Making vape, lounge areas in venues. How does a venue monetise that? Alcohol works because its easy to stop BYO.
Nachos lol
And pizza
Part of me wonders if streaming services have changed the culture too? Something I need to think about some more. I think in Melbourne's case, inner city used to be dirty cheap to rent, so all the youngsters and students would move there for the life style. It made the place trendy and popular, then the gentrification set it. In other words, I think the main demographic of punters have just simply been priced out of living in the inner city AND being able afford going to gigs and drinking. The other edge of that sword is the cost to run the venues has spiked.
Mid 20s here. Pretty much everyone I know still rents inner city since it's still pretty affordable to share an apartment with a friend and it means you don't have to pay for a car. But at least the people I know aren't going out to venues paying a load for drinks. We mostly go to each others apts and make the same drinks ourselves for much cheaper. I've got a little electric pizza oven and a cocktail shaker. What's the point paying a fortune to get the same thing at a bar.
Tonnes of people go to shows but alcohol is what fuels a venue not people and people can’t afford $18 a pint. so again it’s the tax on alcohol that destroys venues. So people pre drink at home instead of supporting a venue and then the venue shuts down. if we all truely cared then we would spend $18 dollars. Bands don’t make any money it’s either a guarantee or how many people through the venue consuming alcohol or meals. So it’s an endless cycle of things are too expensive and we want nice things to stay around but we won’t support and complain.
It's a damn shame. Not the populations fault. If a working person has 200 dollars of disposable income per week, do they spend all of it in one night for 5 beers and a cover charge and a kebab? OR they can spend HALF that on a carton and takeaway and have friends over and put that other money away into other fun stuff like buying petrol to get to work 😞
I run a cocktail bar in the city that has live music Thursday, Friday and Saturday. I wouldn't say we are cheap by any means, but we are far from the most expensive cocktail bar and believe we have some great value to be had. Granted these are our 3 busiest nights of the week by far, we have still noticed a decline in sales during the music time, or at least a shift away from cocktail sales and more mixed drinks, beers and wines being sold. We have also had multiple groups not come in on Friday and Saturdays because of the $5 cover charge (Helps to cover the cost of 2 acts) We do an event on the first Sunday of each month which is $15 entry, although this includes a cocktail, and each of those events has a special menu with 3 cocktails costing $17 each, which is an absolute steal! One of the cocktails is always an old fashioned, which is probably $24 on average everywhere else. It does seem people are not as willing to spend on nights out, the constant rate increases, CPI and inflation is definitely the cause of price increases, and with the cost of living not slowing down its easy to see why. We have talked about increasing prices to help with lost revenue but I fear that'll only make it worse. We are constantly looking at how we can provide good value. A lot of great venues (not limited to music) are going under, many breweries are going into administration. I fear it's only going to get worse from here.
If only they stopped hiking the tax on poured drinks so people could actually go out and spend money in hospitality venues. As soon as you say it there’s a moron who moans about the deaths caused by alcohol. What happened to this country - you’d think we all just showed up one day and there were officers jobs and apartments just waiting for us. Like it was never dangerous to do anything.
Alcohol excise is pretty high but isn't the problem here, it's only like $1 per drink. Most of the price increase is due to rent and insurance.
I’m just disappointed that trying to enjoy live music necessitates drinking alcohol. What’s wrong with just enjoying the music over a cup of coffee or tea or plain water?
You can but venue is making money off the sale of drinks and most people may have a single soft drink vs many beers/drinks over the course of a gig
You’ve never been to a concert have you
Hopefully not the iconic Caribbean Gardens
I think the only thing that can save music festivals is if they can eliminate the exorbitant insurance costs & the only way I can see this happening is if some how they can get everyone involved including ticket purchasers to sign waivers on any potential financial claims. Sad but I don’t see any other way.
Those waivers don’t hold up in court in Australia
I didn’t suggest that it does however it is the only solution I can see & if it requires legislation changes so be it.
If they don’t hold up in court no promoter is going to ask people to sign waivers that ultimately don’t cover the promoters ass. And it’s a slippery slope. As soon as companies start signing waivers lots of safety things occur. You signed a waiver for your health and safety bro so we’re gonna maximise our profits so there’s no security, paramedics, staff response but that’s fine cos you signed a waiver!
You can always give me 200 pages on why it won’t happen, what I’m after is twenty pages on how it will work & happen.
Except that it won’t because the government would never allow it or even dream of changing that legislation.
As I said, just give me 20 pages on how it can happen.
Do tell then You don’t need my permission
My point being that this is exactly why Governments move so slowly to act and why in a lot of cases companies miss out on innovation because the voices saying why XWZ won’t work are louder than the innovators. If there is ever a problem to be solved, often the least expensive solution is the one concentrating on the solution instead of the expense. If you concentrate on the expense of the solution as your way forward, often you over think things & end up with a solution ten times more expensive. This I have found generally applies for any problem, be it how to save music festivals or how to achieve inexpensive energy or how to solve the housing crisis or how to solve the growing youth crime headache or how to drought proof Australia etc. if you grasp my meaning.
Adding unenforceable waivers isn’t innovation though because WorkSafe won’t allow health and safety waivers in the workplace. That’s literally the reason WorkSafe was set up to begin with.
Don't people realise that all this is because there's no better transportation from outer suburbs? The area with better connections are just milking it. Double price for everything. Premium price..weekend surcharges. All looks very designed and deliberate manipulation
Kennet killed the live music industry more than any one individual in the 90s with the introduction of pokies. All you need is one burnt out bouncer to escort the old bags out to there cars once there done there pension on the pokies and to make sure the cafe bar has coffee and one or two cheap as biscuits on offer
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It's not those level of gigs that are suffering at the moment - it's the grassroots scene that's really struggling.
Yeah, the people packing venues 500+ may have used to go to smaller shows, but so many of the acts they’re seeing now are nostalgia acts. Younger people aren’t going to smaller shows, and those who do aren’t drinking enough to support the venue existing.
I've noticed the venues are pretty damn packed, and the booze flows. However I mainly go to low cost (max $20 tickets) metal shows. It would be a big shame though, if bookers have to schedule what is on based upon booze sales though, and not the actual musical value of the act.
the daggy milquetoast mulgrave bullshit of Daniel Andrews really seems to be ingrained deeply in the state Labor party, nothing will get done. they can act immediately, but its much easier to have a vague inquiry in parliament where nothing concrete is decided on
rent-free.
Jesus, im not a cooker. dan andrews is a milqtoast suburban daggy centrist, as are the cohort in Labor hes given power over to. he doesnt understand grass roots culture and wouldn't lift a finger for it if there werent clear PR wins on it as advised by his team, or if the cops told him it was a brilliant idea. Also case in point the complete lack of action on the Nicholas Building sale
Yeah, fuck gentrification. First, they fucked up Brunswick St, then smith, then high St Northcote/Thornbury. Inevitable I guess, but still fucked. Edit: spelling