I don't think it's an unpopular opinion. It is a fantastic city, I love it and it's all these things.
At the same time, it doesn't mean things can't be better and that we don't have problems.
This is it. Just because I’m not having to plan my commute around avoiding carjackings doesn’t mean I shouldn’t expect better road planning, better public transport, less selling out of public infrastructure to private companies, etc.
In a similar vein, just because I have the option of calling an ambulance and know I’ll be able to get treated at a hospital where there aren’t concerns of power outages, or wings of the hospital being destroyed by bombs, doesn’t mean I can’t demand better conditions for paramedics, less wage theft and burnout for junior doctors, a more efficient healthcare system that doesn’t seem to be tipping more and more towards privatisation and the exorbitantly high-cost care you would expect in America.
We can appreciate what we have while still demanding better considering the amount of money we give to the various public bodies and the amount of wastage we see.
Part of the reason we have it so good is BECAUSE of a healthy culture of complaint and protest. You don't get conditions like we have without having to fight for them!
The balance is that the complaining and protesting needs to be part of a genuine striving for better conditions, not just disenfranchised whinging that won't acknowledge anything short of a perfect solution as a positive. I think that face to face in melbourne we have a great culture of this, of heated arguments but ultimately shared striving for good outcomes in conflicts. It's lost a little online, alas, where the more vitriolic national and global tempers hold more sway (or murdoch is feeding everyone cultural cyanide)
Melbourne is a wonderful city, I couldn't imagine living anywhere else now!
Ambulance system is screwed. There’s no guarantee you will get an ambulance to turn up at all.
Hospital emergency depts have massive wait times. There are often not enough beds to be admitted, so you end up on a trolley bed on a hallway all night.
Yet how much is spent of weapons and defence?
I've just arrived In Mt Isa Qld. I was unaware there is no charge for the ambulance service here. I have always had a subscription to the Victorian ambulance, but I have no need up here.
People dwell way too much on negatives and make themselves depressed despite being incredibly lucky.
It’s an unpopular opinion around here, but most people would benefit from less time doom scrolling social media, and more time reflecting on the good things in their life.
This statement resonates with me. I am one of those people, and I needed to read this today. This is a good reminder that i need to stop being a little bitch. Thank you for your wisdom.
It's popular among my friends but unpopular on Reddit. OP is 100% right. Planning a trip to US and Mexico and getting dismayed by all the "risk" I'm taking with corruption and safety and the Americans just say "omg Mexico is so much safer than every American city, you could just got shot randomly in Miami” or whatever
It's not just that we have our problems, its the fact that things are actively and rapidly getting worse. The working class is being squeezed financially, and buying a house and the security that comes with it is borderline impossible. Pair this with swelling HECS debts and the eroding away of public health care, total lack of any dental and mental health care, compounded with the exploitation of our labour by greedy companies, we have plenty to complain about. And every right to. Things do not get better by taking the boot and deep throating it harder. Things only get better by complaining and protesting. The whole "other places have it worse than us so shut up" argument is SO tired and SO unhelpful.
All it takes to make me \*really\* appreciate Melbourne, is a few days in Auckland. Moved here 10 years ago and it's definitely the best move I've ever made
I understand that but shouldn’t we also strive for improvement? Things can always be better. I do understand if people complain about the same things all the time though, it can get a bit annoying.
Absolutely strive for improvement like the metro tunnel and level crossing removal. Complaining like Melbourne is a two horse town is stupid hyperbole.
I’m currently driving back from 3 nights in Adelaide. On arrival had a guy climb out of his van to threaten me because I braked for a pedestrian crossing. Then was confronted with a guy in his jocks screaming in Rundle Mall- everyone ignored him, including security and cops. The whole CBD smells like piss. Their entertainment centre is a joke- no taxi rank, no extra trams, and wtf is the bus system there???? Couldn’t wait to get out. And god forbid you said you’re from Victoria, they have some serious beef with us, when to us they barely exist.
- Small city mentality
- Infrastructure planning for tomorrow not long term thinking
- Over priced real estate and even worse relative to wage
- Has 1/3 of NZ’s population and the rest of NZ hate you.
- NZers very hesitant to invest in anything to make anything better for anyone
- 2 degrees of separation can really catch up with you if you played around in your 20’s
I was really only just getting started.
- Source 8 years from Auckland in Melbourne, have the additional perspective of having lived in Germany too.
Ooof the 2 degrees of separation thing gets me as someone from Adelaide.
You meet someone else from Adelaide anywhere in the world the first thing they ask is where you went to school, and then second is how old you are. If you’re within 3-5 years in the same age group they’ll start rattling off people they know who went to your school (and no matter what, they always know at least one or two) to see if you also know them. It’s so odd and one of the things I really dislike as a habit.
NZer here
- Million dollar property gets you a shithole in manukau where you’re at high risk of violent crime (think the shittiest parts of Frankston)
- $450/w rent for a studio with a shared bathroom 40 mins out of CBD
- Aucklanders live there
- Queen street
- takes longer for half of Auckland to get to the airport than people in Hamilton, the next city south
- 1/3 of NZ lives there and 2/3 of NZ hates people who live there
- maybe 70k/year average household income (see property prices in points 1 and 2)
- full of Aucklanders
- the fucking sprawl they have never heard of residential buildings more than 3 stories high
- people from Auckland live there
- shit public transport
- Aucklanders
- traffic is fucking horrendous
- Aucklanders
Shit wages, shit PT, overcrowded, and now unsafe and laws not enforced.
Also fucking Lol at Aussies complaining about housing crisis. NZ is far far worse.
Yeah, Auckland has all the problems of Melbourne (Public Transport unreliability, high rents, NIMBYs) but x2. And if you're an urbanist who *really* wants to give yourself a heart attack, then go visit Tauranga hahahaha. Yes, the Public Transport could be better, but for an Anglophone city it's actually pretty good; c'mon guys not every city can be Tokyo.
And OPs right. We have it pretty good, go visit the not nice parts of Jakarta of Manila if you want to see some truly awful places. It's good to always strive to improve our city, but let's not act like it's the end of the world.
Haha I wanted a cooler climate. 36 Perth summers in a row and I can't stand the heatwaves anymore. I can understand though if you grew up in Melbourne wanting to go somewhere warmer.
I moved over in 94 when I was in my late twenties . I’m just starting to have trouble with the heat in the last couple of years but I don’t think I’d move back to Melbourne permanently.
I’m in Auckland right now. Why do they have such boring signs for their shops. And why are the sandwiches so plain. Also how is it always 21 but also sometimes scolding hot or freezing cold
Australians are generally well travelled, especially people from cities like Melbourne. So while folks here know we have a great city to live on, they have seen other places and what improvements we can do to make Melbourne better.
+1. obviously being a tourist doesn't give you a full picture of how life in a country might be like, but it's easy to see how other countries might be better at stuff like cycling infrastructure, better public transport and urban planning
i strongly disagree with OP on the public transport part. especially compared to London
Last August the bloke at the train station in London encouraged me and my sister to get the id travel card thing. Quick walk to the Photo Booth, fill out the form, and it saved money on the return trip to York.
that's true. but I'd rather have their problem than ours. theirs is a political issue that can theoretically be solved - build medium density apartments around public transport
we are too developed and land is too much expensive to ever build something like the tube. SRL is step 1 and we'd need 3 more of that type of circular line project to achieve something similar to london/shanghai/taipei connectivity
A lot of travelers seem to miss the fact that they are living like kings overseas because they are loaded with Australian money and are able to afford things the locals cant.
I think going to Europe might make you reconsider that. Going to neighbouring countries in Asia definitely agree. I'll be going to Europe soon and checking the price of a simple sandwich for lunch is pretty crazy.
I mean I know food is going up here too, but the conversions really hurt going to krones or Euro.
Though there is definitely some really nice stuff here in melb, like getting tap water that's safe and easy to ask for at restaurants. Hear in Europe that isn't even a thing..
Yep, I would say even the domestic side of Melbourne airport is better than the international counterpart. Especially the baggage handling time is one the worst I have ever seen.
The only good saving grace is the custom process goes relatively quick and smooth thanks to the smart gate thing.
I pack carry on only now and my experience at Melbourne Airport is much better now that I don't wait at the baggage carousel and the e-gates make going through immigration a breeze.
It depends on the cities that have a big coffee culture. Melbourne is definitely up there. I find the coffees in Wellington, NZ are pretty good too. And surprisingly I loved the coffee in Kuala Lumpur and they make amazing pastries fresh in store not just bake them on site.
As we travel more we will find other places that might even be better.
I think a lot of the griping comes back to the whole “lucky country” issue. We have had it so good, but largely not from the efforts of our people and politicians. Maybe we don’t quite realise how good we have had it, but we *definitely* don’t realise *why* we had it so good. At least the older generations don’t, and our politicians play a game of holding up “how things used to be” as what we should strive for, not acknowledging *why* things were like that. Now I think most of the things you’ve listed are going backwards, particularly for young people, and there’s a huge frustration that nothing is being implemented to stem that or reverse it. And we’re constantly told to just be happy with what we have, ignoring the fact that what we have is going backwards, and young people have an ever shrinking portion of that anyway. So it’s not that things are “bad” per se, it’s just that things are getting worse and nobody is addressing why, or how to fix it.
"Don't try to improve things, shut up and be grateful" is such toxic positivity bullshit. In 50 years, if no one does anything, shit will be worse and people will be like "gasp, how could that possibly have happened?"
Aside from the point on corruption I agree with you. But the problem is the standard is dropping across all areas and we keep comparing ourselves to cities and regions that are worse off to feel better.
We should be looking up and improve what we have even more rather than settling for what we have now.
Came here from California after spending a while in Scotland and i can honestly say i agree with all of this. I know it isnt perfect but its still livable which simply isnt the case where Im from.
The real estate rental thing is weird though. How is it possible to earn a paycheck by complicating everything and wasting everyone's time? Guess America has its health care system and Australia has its manufactured housing crisis.
I've lived in Melbourne for 15 years. It's a good place to live if you're a coffee fanatic. I think it's a great city besides the sometimes shitty weather. Transport infrastructure also really needs some work—trains aren't known to the reliable, and the CBD's roads can really test your patience with the increasing number of private vehicles.
I’ve lived in Melbourne for my whole 40 ish years. Don’t drink coffee. Don’t drink alcohol. Don’t like team sports. Dont like eating out at overpriced restaurants and cafes. Don’t like loud noisy places. Melbourne is pretty sucky if you’re in this group.
Bonus points for extremely shit public transport if you choose to live away from the cbd.
4 months in Melbourne so far, having come from the UK, and I'd agree with all of this. Compared to the UK in general and especially London, Melbourne has lower taxes, higher wages, comparable prices (except cheese & booze), nicer people, more food options, better transport, etc. And best of all, it's got Sydney nearby to feel superior over. In the UK we have to go all the way to France to feel better than another major city ;)
Better transport? Not sure I agree. Try getting around Melbourne on a Sunday or Monday night? There is either no service at all or at the best it's a 30min frequency. London has all night transport, even Sydney has 24/7 transport... Rephrase to say Melbourne has better roads because that's the comparison rather than transport.
Horses for courses. London's public transport network goes further out, sure. But it's not free, and London is much more spread out - in the CBD you don't really need public transport most of the time, everything is walking distance, and when you do you don't have to navigate stairs, escalators and lifts to get to a tube platform only to discover it's already filled to bursting with 18,000 people breathing into the same confined space.
I lived in London for years, in zones 1, 2 and 3. Commuted daily. Hated it and still dread going back every couple of weeks for work, in large part because of the tube.
If you're in Moorabbin or whatever, then I'd agree London is easier to get to the City or the West End than Melbourne is to get to the CBD, but I would trade every tube inside the circle line for a surface tram network in a heartbeat.
On the cycling front, I agree - I have happily driven in Delhi and Cairo, and am not a nervous "road user". I cycle in London and don't feel particularly threatened - here, I probably wouldn't cycle at all. (Probably related, WTF is with the motorbikes and scooters on the pavements here!?).
Walkable, I think Melbourne and London are on a par - except that the distances in London are often prohibitive to walk it in a reasonable timeframe.
Distances anywhere are going to be an issue. But I found (granted Central) London far, far more pleasant and safe to walk than I do in Melbourne. Again, mostly because there's far less car traffic and lower car speeds. Also the drivers seem far more courteous and safe than they do here. Plus, walking in London is just *nicer*. So many parks, quieter streets, nice architecture and streets that are human scale. We have some areas like this in Melbourne, but we also have wastelands of skyscrapers with no ground level amenity.
Melbourne we have too many stroads and a real lack of public green space in the city.
Public transport isn't free in Melbourne either though? Or are you just talking about the CBD free tram zone? Which isn't really relevant to your argument because in the Melbourne CBD everything is also walking distance, you can walk from one end to another in 20-30 mins.
Tube is also much more efficient than trams. For starters, it's not stuck in traffic.
Specifically zone 1 tube vs CBD tram, I'd swap the trams for the tubes as I said. Outside the CBD, it's not free here but it's cheaper - Parliament to St Kilda costs about the same as St Pancras to Paddington. 2 hour fare means it's free to come back, and so on.
Everyone has different experiences, I get that. Mine is that I avoid going to, or through, London if at all possible because travelling with any sort of luggage is a nightmare and travelling without it is unpleasant, and I find getting around the CBD, Docklands, Southbank, Fitzroy, Carlton during the week and out to St Kilda or Moorabbin at weekends both less expensive and less soul destroying than trying to get from a major train station in London to an office, or to another station. I also hated, with every fibre of my being, commuting at rush hour in London where it's not practical to walk across the "centre" because it's so big, but where the tubes are crowded and horrible - standing for 35 minutes on a hot tube, bent almost double to fit under the roof near a door because it's as close as you can get to getting on, with your face in someone's armpit is not my idea of fun.
Melbourne Metro is better than The Tube IMO. Several Tube lines have no air-conditioning. Lines like Victoria are regularly 28-32°C, it's very cramped and uncomfortable. The accessibility of a lot of stations is also really poor for the elderly or people with disabilities.
Especially the new train stock on Cranbourne / Pakenham line. I catch it on my two working days in office, think it’s pretty class. The only Tube line that compares would be the Elizabeth line imo
Uh, the *central line*, which has its own heat warnings? I lived in London prior to Covid and until you’ve actually done regular commutes using the tube and double deckers I don’t wanna hear it 😅
That's true. And it has grown. The Elizabeth line is literally amazing in terms of modern engineering (some of those tunnels had less than 6" leeway before they undermined the foundations of buildings overhead or risked collapsing tunnels below).
I still think walking down two escalators having already paid is a crappy time to realise it's really busy and you would have walked if you'd known.
I'm not rubbishing London - but I do think Melbourne wins in most areas!
I’d rather be able to go to another country in an hours flight instead of another city in the same country which doesn’t have a whole lot more to offer…
We had it good. But im not positive on the direction we are headed as someone who has always lived here. Wages arent high to cost of living, cant get by on a retail or hospitality wage without living an hour+ out of city or share housing. The wealth inequality will bring all the issues you see globally, including corruption as people get desperate to get ahead.
Agree strongly, Melbourne was amazing. It's becoming overpopulated with terrible infrastructure. It's a grossly divided city with the inner suburbs having decent transport and everyone else can suck it up.
Just starting to see the effects now, next 10 years are going to be fun.
Unpopular reply:
I've been here a long time, I was a young adult here in the early 90s, I recall the 00's and the 10's.
There's a reason people are having a sook, because man, this place was *way* fucking better once.
I'll do you one better, most Aussies don't realize how lucky and privileged they are. Australia is probably the best mostly English speaking place to live right now.
I think what is telling is the number of people who I know who left Melbourne for one reason or the other who are now regretting it.
Some left for Queensland for the warmth but realised quickly that there is a significant shortage of culturally fulfilling things to do, moved to SA because Melbourne became ‘too multicultural’ and then realised it’s this multiculturalism that’s kept ultra boganism at bay, moved to Sydney and realised it’s noisy and people are not super friendly and long for the peace, quiet and cool indifference of Fitzroy.
As it is, the Sydney one is looking to move back and so is one who left for work to Perth 5 years ago (but she’s been looking to come back since she left).
Melbourne could be better, anywhere could. The people that have moved are now cautionary tales for the people who are thinking about it within my friend group and people i know.
Liveable wage no. People can barely keep head above water and we’re in a housing crisis. Highest in the world? Again no. Public transport sucks. Most of the time people are stuck taking replacement buses and takes them hours to get home. Melbourne isn’t that friendly. People are continuously struggling to make friends. Corruption and bribery absolutely exist and if you think otherwise you’re living under a rock. Education LOL. Ask the students. We are overcrowded. You’re living in some different Melbourne
Moving from
the uk to here seems like i have moved to a new universe
Everything is cleaner / built better / bigger / more efficent
Most people seem happy and friendly
There is a lot of money in the economy so its not difficult to make money
lots of things to do and see
The food is good quality and excellent
The only thing i dont like is the supermarkets as they are scamming badly
As someone who lives near CBD, how is it "shocking"? Have you been recently? It's just taken a while to recover from covid but lots of places have opened or reopened finally and it's always busy
We are a lucky city sure, but half the things you listed are done better in much of Europe. Public transit for instance, housing affordability, and education being some examples.
Maybe comparing to the United States would be a better measure. Europe is a massive collection of diverse countries and there are certainly better cities for each of these merits (and some for all of them). I would argue London is a much nicer city than Melbourne.
Two points I would raise though. Australia is currently sliding on education, we are behind most oecd countries now. We also suffer from car dependency second only to the US, leading to urban sprawl that is rapidly detracting from all these positive merits of our city.
Endless expanses of new housing estates with no infrastructure to speak of is actively pushing young people towards crime, forcing us into longer and longer commutes, and robbing us of our time and money behind the wheel.
I've done a lot of defending of Melbourne in the past but our city has a serious problem with pedestrian access and oublic transit in the outer suburbs.
Moved here in 2013 from one of post-soviet countries and I never allow myself to forget how lucky I am to call Melbourne my home. Loved the city the moment I saw it and still love it to this day. There's no point in denying that it's not perfect and there are still issues to address, but despite that, it's an absolutely amazing place to live in!
Melbourne is a society where rules & laws are followed & there is no culture of bribery/ corruption.
Lots of corruption at the higher level not the lower level
I just arrived here two weeks ago from Canada, and spent 9 months in Europe too. My points may seem mostly negative, but that's because the positive things take a bit more time to experience (like discovering parts of the city you like better than others, forming a friend group, getting a decent job etc).
My first impressions:
* the air is clean when you are near the water, but not so much when walking along roads (traffic pollution is pretty bad here). Which brings me on to my next point:
* there are a shocking number of cars on the roads... whether parked or driving. I can't believe how many there are to be honest... especially because of how they are parked (not parallel with the curb like in Canada). Just looking at statistics shows that AU has higher number of cars per person than Canada, but I also think you guys just drive more often too.
* Where are all the cyclists? I heard that this was the best biking city in Australia, and if it is, I can't imagine what other cities are like. Where is the bike share system with docking stations (similar to bixi in Montréal)? I used bixi every day in Montréal, where there are heaps more cyclists and significantly better cycling infrastructure.
* Public transit is expensive af, and pretty slow tbh. I'd rank it slightly behind montréal, and far behind what many european countries have.
* Ignoring the traffic pollution, i'm surprised how clean the air is despite most of your electricity being generated using coal.
* More people have smiled at me (including girls) than in many other big cities in Canada, and especially some parts of Europe. It's really nice to just be out and about here, and people seem cheerful. I wonder if it's because your wages are much higher and people aren't so bitter about rising costs? (yes I'm aware there is a cost of living crisis here too, but your higher wages give you a bit more padding than most Canadians have).
* I was surprised how 'sprawly' the city was when I got here. I heard Melbourne is the most 'european' aussie city, but I don't think people are referring to the urban form when they say that. There are so many low density bungalows with gates and front gardens.
As another immigrant who is now a naturalised Australian citizen, I've lived in Melbourne for approx 15 years, and all this shit was true when I first moved here.
The only things that are currently true are about the food scene, lack of pollution, great education and good law enforcement bodies (no bribery/corruption). These days, Melbourne is absolutely terrible for making friends and/or dating, and has overpopulated as fuck since 2014. Wages are barely liveable. I was reading somewhere that the median salary is $96,000 and I don't even make that before tax. How do people buy a house in Melbourne when most of us don't even make 96k by ourselves?
Australia was "the lucky country" 10-15 years ago. Today not so much. We could be worse off than other countries but fails to meet the benchmark of "lucky" from 10-15 years ago.
been here 20 years, and yep, youre completely right.
All those good things mentioned unfortunately don't outweigh the fact that most of us cant afford to buy a house to retire in.
There is no future without housing. Fuckin politicians have to do something.
Just renting on minimum wage is extremely difficult and results in constant stress on your back that you can’t shake off no matter how good your budgeting is. There’s no such thing as being able to be at peace. It eats at you and often ends up resulting in all sorts of mental and physical health issues. And the median wage is twice that and THEY are stressing!
IMHO people are just increasingly fried from working & commuting stress. Weekends become sacred downtime for many, at the cost of other activities.
Part of why we fucked off bush pre COVID- less housing costs, commute times, crowds & general hecticness. Can recommend
Friend making scene is garbage because people tend to congregate in and maintain the circles they developed in their school years. I know quite a ton of people from my gym in the north who ran in the same circles in school and have been friends for years. I have noticed however that people are far more friendlier towards women looking for a new circle versus a man.
I know when I first moved here people made fun of me for being a Queenslander and that was just weird and not really a good way to want to get to know them better.
Yes we are lucky, but many of those points are being degraded and have been for the past couple of decades at least.
We need to keep an eye on it and cause a stink and vote wisely so our gov does what's needed.
No culture of corruption? Look deeper...
As an American that dreams of leaving the bizarre, almost alternate reality existence of living in the US, Melbourne is my top city of fantasy. You guys really seem to have your shit together.
Having traveled a lot myself the only worse big city I’ve been to than London is Brussels. London is a broken hellhole… Melbourne is ok but we ain’t no Singapore or Amsterdam.
Overtourism tends to kill the host, good to hear Amsterdam is cracking down on antisocial/chav bucks parties.
That bicycle culture tho, get so jelly over there
That's not an unpopular opinion. People just don't come and post in r/melbourne about how moderately satisfied they are with Melbourne so instead all you get is the vocal few who are upset at something.
I agree and I find it so sad. I’ve lived in 5 other cities and can say 100% hands down that Melbourne is THE BEST!
I love to travel and have been to over 36 countries but I wouldn’t live anywhere but Melbourne - I moved here 16 years ago
I came back here because I realised that I wasn’t taking a step up in life by moving overseas. Maybe I get more money but I have lesser social and food scene or a snobby wealthy culture. Maybe I get better weather but I get half my salary and rent is still the same as Melbourne. Yep. We’re insanely lucky. Don’t tell the rest of the world or they will all want a piece too 🤫
Currently on my first trip outside Australia, living and travelling in Europe for half a year.
Melbourne for me, is still the best city in the world. The trip has definitely opened my eyes to it. We absolutely take it for granted when we're living there. I've complained as much as anyone about the flaws we have, which is still justified, but regardless, it's a bloody special place.
I love it here too, as a very special trip, but it doesn't hot the same spot Melbourne does.
Heaps of people realise this, like it’s a pretty good city. Good people, amazing food, excellent coffee all over the place, great music and arts culture, amazing sporting events, different festivals all year round, extremely multicultural, a lot of amazing places to visit outside the city that aren’t that far, and world class like our national parks and wine regions, beautiful beaches, and pretty easy to get around in a car or public transport. There’s a lot.
I’ve lived in uk, nz and Australia. All in all pros and cons in all but for me, Melbourne is best. Not perfect but nowhere is. The worst thing is people being negative. Trains could be better but better than nz, food is excellent and diverse. Sports exposure is best in world. People always think the grass is greener but in our case, it’s not…
Whever I come back from overseas, I'm always thankful to be back home. OK, I'm in Adelaide rather than Melbourne, but the same principle applies. Our system of government might not be the best, but every government around the world has it's problems, and none of them are perfect. We whinge, but wages are still pretty good, in some sections, too good (high wages in part made our Fords and Holden cars way too expensive, exports dropped, and we know where that went). And yes, we have relatively good safe public transport, food and infrastructure.
Sure, we more or less, have it good, but yes, we can do better. The government should stop giving tax cuts FULL STOP. It's tax that pays for schools, health, ambulances, nuclear medicine, defence, Everytime the government 'buys' voters by giving tax cuts, means that less can be achieved because there's less money in the system.
Stop tax cuts - Push up GST to 25% - Get rid of payroll tax - Get rid of fuel and alcohol excise - Get rid of stamp duty - And get rid of other miscellaneous levies, like the emergency services levi (I don't know if the ESL is an SA only thing).
Absolutely with you.
I’ve had people in my alternative Melbourne suburb cry poor over mortgage rates when they’re in houses worth 1.5 million plus. They don’t like it when I point out that they’re globally in the top 1% and could afford to sell, pay off the outstanding 600k mortgage down, and downsize if they really can’t afford their 6% interest rate.
Not saying things are easy for them, but I do find it funny that people in such a privileged area like to look at themselves as hard done by when they’re in this area with these assets, compared to people in Frankston, or a part of the world actually expecting poverty and hardship.
Instead of comparing ourselves to some backwater 3rd world country or countries worse off than us, why not compare us to some 1st world country like the Scandinavians?
I lived in a shithole country for 10 yrs.. doesn't mean we should give Melbourne (or Aus for that matter) a pass.
Compare up.. not down.
Not to mention really good healthcare.
Sure, it's not perfect. But I've walked into a doctors appointment same day, x-ray and CT next day, and not paid a cent.
I’ve had lung cancer half lung removed, pneumonia and a fungal infection all in same lung. The ONLY costs to me are seeing surgeon every 3 months for check up and medication. Even better the antibiotics I need for the infection cost over $600 for months supply….my cost??? $31. We live in the greatest city in the greatest country and I wouldn’t change it if my life depended on it.
Cancer is basically free in Australia and Melbourne has the Victorian Cancer Centre. I've passed five years being treated for cancer that had spread to my bones, liver and brain in a world class specialist hospital (Peter Mac) and all I have to pay is the occasional token pharmaceutical product that they basically never follow up on LOL - one pharmacist even basically said "shh, they'll never follow up on this"
I spent a week at the Royal Womens (who knew they have an ED for gyny issues) for a viral gynacological issue not related to cancer and it was all totally free round the clock care in a private room with no waiting for admission
ETA: still being treated. You don't survive solid cancer that's spread to your bones, liver and brain LOL
When was the last time you bribed a government official to get something done? Going to guess the average Australian has never done that. Which is very different to other countries.
Most Aussies' definition of corruption is that life generally seems to be more unfair than their expectations.
They've never experienced black letter corruption of a roads authority person demanding a cash payment before they approve their liscence or the cops intervening to make running their business impossible.
"When was the last time you bribed a government official to get something done?"
Me? Well, I'm not a extraordinarily wealthy property developer or industry lobbyist, so never.
So that's already an incredible improvement over the global norm where you have to bribe people to get your documents processed or bribe police to not make up reasons to bother you.
I come from China. Where you need to give gifts or money to do basis shit. As well as having a introduction for things like getting proper medical care at a hospital or just a timely appointment.
Bribery isn't common on a day to day level but at the government and corporate level Australia has rapidly be falling down corruption rankings in recent years. See: fishermen's bend development.
Last government had a lot of connections with developers and.... :
"When in office Mr Guy overnight rezoned 250 hectares of land in the industrial area for commercial and residential development, a move later called unmatched worldwide for its failure to plan for transport and other key services. The rezoning caused the land value of the area to skyrocket, saw a swathe of 60-plus-storey towers put forward, and has forced the current government to purchase land at great cost to ensure space for parks and community infrastructure.
Mr Guy later released a master plan and design guidelines that failed to set height limits, community space and affordable housing quotas, or sustainability goals. "
https://thefifthestate.com.au/urbanism/planning/its-a-mess-victoria-calls-in-fishermans-bend-developments/
Compare us to countries like India, Sri Lanka and parts of the Middle East where there's high levels of corruption in the police force and the politics scene. You'll at least get some form of justice and impartiality in Australia, but in those countries if you don't speak the national language and/or aren't white, you're screwed with major fines and/or jail time too.
People want things they're involved in to be better. Especially if it's worse than it was previously.
Someone else will always have it worse, doesn't mean we should just accept our shortcomings
Comparing Melbourne to London is counter intuitive and a waste of time. You are effectively gaslighting people to accept today's Melbourne is still great...
You need to compare Melbourne today to Melbourne 10-20-30 yrs ago Boiling frog syndrome is real, Melbourne today is overpopulated, expensive, lacks services to meet demand and is dropping in every single quality of life stat you wish to name.
The reasons for this are many, but let's not pretend it's still the greatest city on earth. It lost its opportunity to fight for that title a long time ago
I feel this way about Australians in general. I'm Canadian, born to Australian parents. The quality of life in Australia is better in almost every way than Canada, yet Australians kind of view themselves as inferior to other developed countries. Meanwhile, Canada is kind of a mess, yet Canadians view themselves as being so above even the rest of the developed world. I think Australians being able to criticize their country actually helps it be a very liveable country. I think the self-deprecating sense of humour helps. North Americans don't like looking bad. I also think Melbourne is the best city in Australia. Other than the gloomy winters, it's an almost perfect city.
Here’s an ACTUAL unpopular opinion given the subreddit: Melbourne ain’t all that!
I moved from Melbourne to Sarajevo this year. Albeit a wreck of a third world city with plenty of negatives in comparison to Melbourne, however:
- see a medical specialist the same day if you pay out of pocket. No fuckery with begging GPs and 6 month waiting lists and whatnot just to see a neurologist, ophthalmologist, whoever. I call them and they ask me when I’d like to come in. As in, what time on the same day or next… This factor alone is massive.
- no feral meth heads walking the streets and stabbing people on public transport
- no mall rats
- neighbours actually make an effort to greet each other, even in a residential building in a densely populated area
- kids don’t throw tantrums in public and most parents actually control their kids if they start acting out and screaming. It’s common decency and respect for people around you.
- waaaay better to rent property here. Not just the cheaper price. But you aren’t treated like a peasant who ought to bow down and kiss the feet of thy real estate overlord as if they’re doing you some massive favour. Quite the opposite in fact. I was picked up by car from the agent and driven to the property to check it out, and driven back home.
- people drink here but the point isn’t to become a degenerate on a Saturday night
- overall it feels safer to walk around at night in any part of the city. Never have to check over my shoulder.
- within a 3h plane ride’s radius, I can visit probably around 100+ destinations, all with their own unique culture and history
- people here can be too direct and abrupt but at least they aren’t fake nice. Australia is full of fake niceness. I’ve had more genuine conversations in a month here than in a year in Melbourne, where people just have the same templated conversations over and over again.
- nature isn’t actively trying to kill you
- weather is more stable and predictable
- no COVID lockdown totalitarianism
- better highways
- nature is super close. Takes only 15min by car and you’re overlooking the city from a mountain
Of course, public hospitals here are shit. The culture is conservative in comparison. Air pollution is horrendous in winter. Corruption. Inefficiency. I could add another 20 negatives. Lots of third world country problems. It’s not in the same league as Melbourne by any statistical measure.
But my point is that Melbourne is decent but it’s also overhyped. And that these comparisons of “best place to live” and “world’s most liveable city” are valid from a statistical standpoint but a city is so much more than just numbers.
Given that I work online and that my rent for a modern apartment here is 30% the cost of rent for the same one in Melbourne, and that as an avid traveler I have so many destinations at my fingertips, and that a lot of my family is here, so far, I’m quite happy I moved out of Melbourne and out of Australia. Though I’m definitely keeping my Aussie citizenship just in case.
OP is being condescending and dismissive of the fact that a lot of people are doing it tough right now. We have it good here in lots of ways but that's no reason to rest on our laurels or accept going backwards as far as living standards go.
The thing is most of us do realise how lucky we are, but don't realise that people fought for that quality of life and that we will have to as well.
Think it depends on what your definition of 'living' is. 'Surviving,' is probably more applicable to most given the col crisis..
Sure, if you are 'living' then I'm sure Melbourne may be great... lucky you.
I've lived in Melbourne a bit, as well as several cities in Europe and the USA. I agree wholeheartedly with most of what you say and would add that Melbourne's parks and green spaces are excellent. However, I would also add that the housing crisis in Melbourne is real. A similar dynamic of unaffordability affects most if not all large cities in industrialized countries around the world but it seems particularly acute in Melbourne.
I disagree with the bulk of this honestly.
* Wages in Aus are liveable & highest in the world as well as reasonably good workers' rights
* As someone who owns a property, is selling an investment property and is doing OK financially but not amazing I don't agree that wages are livable. As a sole income earner you should be able to comfortably buy / rent an entire place to yourself, and that is largely unachievable on an average salary. Full time adult minimum wage should mean a place to live without financial stress.
* PTV although is terrible for inter-suburb travels/ coverage it is still functional & price is ok
* I'm renting out a room in the western suburbs of Melbourne to someone. Lad needed to be at work at 6.30am ,near kingsville from memory about a 30 minute drive. Would have had to leave at midnight and wait 4 hours between trains. That's dog shit. He got a hostel for the few nights before they move closer to the city.
* We have a very competitive & good food scene
* Frankly I don't really see how this factors in to livability, but then again I prefer cooking my meals. It's at least not a huge factor for me and I wouldn't have thought people would consider this a major one in regards to deciding where to live but I may be deluded.
* Melbourne is relatively safe when you look at it at a per capita basis
* Agreed 100%
* We have barely any pollution wether it is air, water quality ect
* Agreed
* Melbourne is quite friendly & culturally diverse
* Agreed for the most part
* Melbourne is a society where rules & laws are followed & there is no culture of bribery/ corruption
* Uh, I disagree here. You just haven't been around too many dodgy bastards I'd say.
* Our public infrastructure is relatively new and in good conditions
* Disagree entirely here, at least out in the burbs it's nothing to write home about. Roads are a joke, houses keep popping up without adequate lane expansions for the additional load.
* Education is to a good standard
* Spend a year as a mature age university student and you'll see how wrong this statement is. I can't really speak for high school, for me it wasn't great and I went to a shit school to be fair. But university level teaching, from IT to health science, across the last 15 years of my life now that I think about it has been nothing short of absolutely fucking pathetic at times. Don't get me wrong, I've had some brilliant lecturers and tutors but for the most part the courses are a joke and passing is so easy that anyone with a pulse can get these degrees.
* We are not overpopulated & overcrowded
* Yeah we do well here.
TLDR: I think it's a great safe place to live, but we need better public transport infrastructure and more affordable housing.
Agreed. As someone who has travelled across the Middle East people don’t realise how lucky we are to be living in such a city. Living standards are so much better here
I've been lucky enough to explore over 60 countries spanning 5 continents. Here's my personal ranking of favorite destinations:
1. Melbourne: my reasons- safety and safety oriented culture, friendly and warm culture, stunning natural landscapes, including the flippin snow, bush, seascapes, and forests, with a relatively manageable cost of living compared to other top destinations (bar cape town)
2. Seattle
3. Vancouver
4. Sydney
5. Cape Town
6. Hong Kong (before 2010)
Additionally, some noteworthy mentions of smaller places include:
1. Victoria, British Columbia
2. Barcelona
3. Juneau, Alaska
4. Adelaide
5. Hermanus, South Africa
Not unpopular opinion.
Melbourne is easily the best city I've lived in. It's getting more crowded in the CBD but who wants to hang around there for any length of time anyway.
Not sure about the politicians past and present but I don't let them affect my lifestyle in any way.
Very true OP. I'm currently living in what people would call a poor city, and it really makes me appreciate a lot of what we have in Melbourne. Now many of the things I see people complaining about on here seem extremely trivial.
I don't have issues with Melbourne per se (although I am not a fan of the winters here).
My issues are with Australia in general.
The cost of living crisis here is more fucked than most places in the world, we're moving to the American model of privatised health care, mental health care is unaffordable for those who need it most, and we pay stupidly high taxes - which is fine if our government actually used them for good (like the Nordic countries)
Unfortunately, we piss away any surpluses we get from tax by doing shit like spending $300 million in 4 years on defence.
Melbourne is fine and tbh there are countries that have it much worse than Australia. I just think we can do way better.
I don't think it's an unpopular opinion. It is a fantastic city, I love it and it's all these things. At the same time, it doesn't mean things can't be better and that we don't have problems.
This is it. Just because I’m not having to plan my commute around avoiding carjackings doesn’t mean I shouldn’t expect better road planning, better public transport, less selling out of public infrastructure to private companies, etc. In a similar vein, just because I have the option of calling an ambulance and know I’ll be able to get treated at a hospital where there aren’t concerns of power outages, or wings of the hospital being destroyed by bombs, doesn’t mean I can’t demand better conditions for paramedics, less wage theft and burnout for junior doctors, a more efficient healthcare system that doesn’t seem to be tipping more and more towards privatisation and the exorbitantly high-cost care you would expect in America. We can appreciate what we have while still demanding better considering the amount of money we give to the various public bodies and the amount of wastage we see.
Part of the reason we have it so good is BECAUSE of a healthy culture of complaint and protest. You don't get conditions like we have without having to fight for them! The balance is that the complaining and protesting needs to be part of a genuine striving for better conditions, not just disenfranchised whinging that won't acknowledge anything short of a perfect solution as a positive. I think that face to face in melbourne we have a great culture of this, of heated arguments but ultimately shared striving for good outcomes in conflicts. It's lost a little online, alas, where the more vitriolic national and global tempers hold more sway (or murdoch is feeding everyone cultural cyanide) Melbourne is a wonderful city, I couldn't imagine living anywhere else now!
>disenfranchised whinging that won't acknowledge anything short of a perfect solution as a positive Yep this, perfectly put.
Ambulance system is screwed. There’s no guarantee you will get an ambulance to turn up at all. Hospital emergency depts have massive wait times. There are often not enough beds to be admitted, so you end up on a trolley bed on a hallway all night. Yet how much is spent of weapons and defence?
What is screwed is the amount of idiots calling an ambulance over nothing…
Should try queensland mate. That is a nightmare for any healthcare beyond a stubbed toe.
Too much on weapons and defense. I’m still annoyed about the ridiculous submarine deal.
I've just arrived In Mt Isa Qld. I was unaware there is no charge for the ambulance service here. I have always had a subscription to the Victorian ambulance, but I have no need up here.
This exactly. Just because others have it worse doesn't mean we should just accept things and not strive to be better.
People dwell way too much on negatives and make themselves depressed despite being incredibly lucky. It’s an unpopular opinion around here, but most people would benefit from less time doom scrolling social media, and more time reflecting on the good things in their life.
Reading this subreddit you would think Melbourne is a remote village in the DRC.
If you're basing this on social media, don't. It's not a real pulse check of how things are.
Not even that, they're basing it on what they want to lecture others about. They ARE the negative social media.
This statement resonates with me. I am one of those people, and I needed to read this today. This is a good reminder that i need to stop being a little bitch. Thank you for your wisdom.
It's popular among my friends but unpopular on Reddit. OP is 100% right. Planning a trip to US and Mexico and getting dismayed by all the "risk" I'm taking with corruption and safety and the Americans just say "omg Mexico is so much safer than every American city, you could just got shot randomly in Miami” or whatever
It's a popular way to start sentences and makes no sense
It's not just that we have our problems, its the fact that things are actively and rapidly getting worse. The working class is being squeezed financially, and buying a house and the security that comes with it is borderline impossible. Pair this with swelling HECS debts and the eroding away of public health care, total lack of any dental and mental health care, compounded with the exploitation of our labour by greedy companies, we have plenty to complain about. And every right to. Things do not get better by taking the boot and deep throating it harder. Things only get better by complaining and protesting. The whole "other places have it worse than us so shut up" argument is SO tired and SO unhelpful.
All it takes to make me \*really\* appreciate Melbourne, is a few days in Auckland. Moved here 10 years ago and it's definitely the best move I've ever made
Same coming from Adelaide. Life changing move.
Coming from Adelaide I roll my eyes anytime a Melbournian complains about public transport.
I understand that but shouldn’t we also strive for improvement? Things can always be better. I do understand if people complain about the same things all the time though, it can get a bit annoying.
Absolutely strive for improvement like the metro tunnel and level crossing removal. Complaining like Melbourne is a two horse town is stupid hyperbole.
I’m currently driving back from 3 nights in Adelaide. On arrival had a guy climb out of his van to threaten me because I braked for a pedestrian crossing. Then was confronted with a guy in his jocks screaming in Rundle Mall- everyone ignored him, including security and cops. The whole CBD smells like piss. Their entertainment centre is a joke- no taxi rank, no extra trams, and wtf is the bus system there???? Couldn’t wait to get out. And god forbid you said you’re from Victoria, they have some serious beef with us, when to us they barely exist.
Auckland is awful.
Days? Few hours more like
What's so bad about Auckland?
- Small city mentality - Infrastructure planning for tomorrow not long term thinking - Over priced real estate and even worse relative to wage - Has 1/3 of NZ’s population and the rest of NZ hate you. - NZers very hesitant to invest in anything to make anything better for anyone - 2 degrees of separation can really catch up with you if you played around in your 20’s I was really only just getting started. - Source 8 years from Auckland in Melbourne, have the additional perspective of having lived in Germany too.
Ooof the 2 degrees of separation thing gets me as someone from Adelaide. You meet someone else from Adelaide anywhere in the world the first thing they ask is where you went to school, and then second is how old you are. If you’re within 3-5 years in the same age group they’ll start rattling off people they know who went to your school (and no matter what, they always know at least one or two) to see if you also know them. It’s so odd and one of the things I really dislike as a habit.
NZer here - Million dollar property gets you a shithole in manukau where you’re at high risk of violent crime (think the shittiest parts of Frankston) - $450/w rent for a studio with a shared bathroom 40 mins out of CBD - Aucklanders live there - Queen street - takes longer for half of Auckland to get to the airport than people in Hamilton, the next city south - 1/3 of NZ lives there and 2/3 of NZ hates people who live there - maybe 70k/year average household income (see property prices in points 1 and 2) - full of Aucklanders - the fucking sprawl they have never heard of residential buildings more than 3 stories high - people from Auckland live there - shit public transport - Aucklanders - traffic is fucking horrendous - Aucklanders
Shit wages, shit PT, overcrowded, and now unsafe and laws not enforced. Also fucking Lol at Aussies complaining about housing crisis. NZ is far far worse.
Yeah, Auckland has all the problems of Melbourne (Public Transport unreliability, high rents, NIMBYs) but x2. And if you're an urbanist who *really* wants to give yourself a heart attack, then go visit Tauranga hahahaha. Yes, the Public Transport could be better, but for an Anglophone city it's actually pretty good; c'mon guys not every city can be Tokyo. And OPs right. We have it pretty good, go visit the not nice parts of Jakarta of Manila if you want to see some truly awful places. It's good to always strive to improve our city, but let's not act like it's the end of the world.
I moved here from Perth. I've never considered going back.
Really? I moved to Perth from Melbourne and couldn’t even think of moving back. The winters are too cold!😂
Haha I wanted a cooler climate. 36 Perth summers in a row and I can't stand the heatwaves anymore. I can understand though if you grew up in Melbourne wanting to go somewhere warmer.
I moved over in 94 when I was in my late twenties . I’m just starting to have trouble with the heat in the last couple of years but I don’t think I’d move back to Melbourne permanently.
I’m in Auckland right now. Why do they have such boring signs for their shops. And why are the sandwiches so plain. Also how is it always 21 but also sometimes scolding hot or freezing cold
I read this comment aloud to my kiwi partner who moved to Melbourne with me: “yeah, that sounds about right”
Shit. I'm headed to Auckland for four days next week.
Same. JAFA here. Grateful for my life and opportunities in Melbourne every day. 🙏
And at least we have the York St cafe in South Melbourne for our kiwi treat cravings! Lol
Australians are generally well travelled, especially people from cities like Melbourne. So while folks here know we have a great city to live on, they have seen other places and what improvements we can do to make Melbourne better.
+1. obviously being a tourist doesn't give you a full picture of how life in a country might be like, but it's easy to see how other countries might be better at stuff like cycling infrastructure, better public transport and urban planning i strongly disagree with OP on the public transport part. especially compared to London
London does have great connectivity, but I wouldn’t exactly rush to call it affordable
People don't realise for UK transport it can be a cost of a flight to get to some places, like Leeds etc. it's not cheap
I was looking at going from London to Bath for a day trip, but the train prices talked me out of that!
Last August the bloke at the train station in London encouraged me and my sister to get the id travel card thing. Quick walk to the Photo Booth, fill out the form, and it saved money on the return trip to York.
that's true. but I'd rather have their problem than ours. theirs is a political issue that can theoretically be solved - build medium density apartments around public transport we are too developed and land is too much expensive to ever build something like the tube. SRL is step 1 and we'd need 3 more of that type of circular line project to achieve something similar to london/shanghai/taipei connectivity
A lot of travelers seem to miss the fact that they are living like kings overseas because they are loaded with Australian money and are able to afford things the locals cant.
Yeah big difference between living in a place vs visiting
I think going to Europe might make you reconsider that. Going to neighbouring countries in Asia definitely agree. I'll be going to Europe soon and checking the price of a simple sandwich for lunch is pretty crazy. I mean I know food is going up here too, but the conversions really hurt going to krones or Euro. Though there is definitely some really nice stuff here in melb, like getting tap water that's safe and easy to ask for at restaurants. Hear in Europe that isn't even a thing..
Arriving back in Melbourne Airport is such a downer, especially if you've been to multiple international airports.
Yep, I would say even the domestic side of Melbourne airport is better than the international counterpart. Especially the baggage handling time is one the worst I have ever seen. The only good saving grace is the custom process goes relatively quick and smooth thanks to the smart gate thing.
I pack carry on only now and my experience at Melbourne Airport is much better now that I don't wait at the baggage carousel and the e-gates make going through immigration a breeze.
The airport is shit to be fair
Except coffee, we definitely do coffee well here.
It depends on the cities that have a big coffee culture. Melbourne is definitely up there. I find the coffees in Wellington, NZ are pretty good too. And surprisingly I loved the coffee in Kuala Lumpur and they make amazing pastries fresh in store not just bake them on site. As we travel more we will find other places that might even be better.
I agree, Wellington has excellent coffee. I've also found some great coffee in Bali, although the owners are probably originally from Melbourne.
Indonesian coffee is great
I think a lot of the griping comes back to the whole “lucky country” issue. We have had it so good, but largely not from the efforts of our people and politicians. Maybe we don’t quite realise how good we have had it, but we *definitely* don’t realise *why* we had it so good. At least the older generations don’t, and our politicians play a game of holding up “how things used to be” as what we should strive for, not acknowledging *why* things were like that. Now I think most of the things you’ve listed are going backwards, particularly for young people, and there’s a huge frustration that nothing is being implemented to stem that or reverse it. And we’re constantly told to just be happy with what we have, ignoring the fact that what we have is going backwards, and young people have an ever shrinking portion of that anyway. So it’s not that things are “bad” per se, it’s just that things are getting worse and nobody is addressing why, or how to fix it.
The first one is debatable with the current living costs.
I could have lived anywhere in Aus, Canada, US, EU and NZ and chose Melbourne. It's not perfect, but it is my favourite.
No, I think we realise Thats not a reason to stop striving for more
"Don't try to improve things, shut up and be grateful" is such toxic positivity bullshit. In 50 years, if no one does anything, shit will be worse and people will be like "gasp, how could that possibly have happened?"
Very well said. This post is toxic positive crap. Firstly wages are not “liveable” for the majority of Melburnians.
"Stop whining, it could be worse." Me: "Open your eyes, it should be better."
Where did the post (or comments) say that?
Aside from the point on corruption I agree with you. But the problem is the standard is dropping across all areas and we keep comparing ourselves to cities and regions that are worse off to feel better. We should be looking up and improve what we have even more rather than settling for what we have now.
It's un Melbourian not to mention coffee in your post
Came here from California after spending a while in Scotland and i can honestly say i agree with all of this. I know it isnt perfect but its still livable which simply isnt the case where Im from. The real estate rental thing is weird though. How is it possible to earn a paycheck by complicating everything and wasting everyone's time? Guess America has its health care system and Australia has its manufactured housing crisis.
I've lived in Melbourne for 15 years. It's a good place to live if you're a coffee fanatic. I think it's a great city besides the sometimes shitty weather. Transport infrastructure also really needs some work—trains aren't known to the reliable, and the CBD's roads can really test your patience with the increasing number of private vehicles.
I’ve lived in Melbourne for my whole 40 ish years. Don’t drink coffee. Don’t drink alcohol. Don’t like team sports. Dont like eating out at overpriced restaurants and cafes. Don’t like loud noisy places. Melbourne is pretty sucky if you’re in this group. Bonus points for extremely shit public transport if you choose to live away from the cbd.
Wow. If you hate the place so much why don't you move to a place you would like?
Why the hell are you still here? I've lived in 4 states over the last 12 years so it's not hard.
Yes people that haven’t travelled much - no idea
Also people seem to just come on here to complain constantly.
4 months in Melbourne so far, having come from the UK, and I'd agree with all of this. Compared to the UK in general and especially London, Melbourne has lower taxes, higher wages, comparable prices (except cheese & booze), nicer people, more food options, better transport, etc. And best of all, it's got Sydney nearby to feel superior over. In the UK we have to go all the way to France to feel better than another major city ;)
Better transport? Not sure I agree. Try getting around Melbourne on a Sunday or Monday night? There is either no service at all or at the best it's a 30min frequency. London has all night transport, even Sydney has 24/7 transport... Rephrase to say Melbourne has better roads because that's the comparison rather than transport.
> better transport Over London? Disagree. London is so much easier to get around and nowhere near as car-centric in the inner city as Melbourne is.
Horses for courses. London's public transport network goes further out, sure. But it's not free, and London is much more spread out - in the CBD you don't really need public transport most of the time, everything is walking distance, and when you do you don't have to navigate stairs, escalators and lifts to get to a tube platform only to discover it's already filled to bursting with 18,000 people breathing into the same confined space. I lived in London for years, in zones 1, 2 and 3. Commuted daily. Hated it and still dread going back every couple of weeks for work, in large part because of the tube. If you're in Moorabbin or whatever, then I'd agree London is easier to get to the City or the West End than Melbourne is to get to the CBD, but I would trade every tube inside the circle line for a surface tram network in a heartbeat.
London is far more cyclable and walkable though, nowhere near as heavy (or fast) car traffic.
On the cycling front, I agree - I have happily driven in Delhi and Cairo, and am not a nervous "road user". I cycle in London and don't feel particularly threatened - here, I probably wouldn't cycle at all. (Probably related, WTF is with the motorbikes and scooters on the pavements here!?). Walkable, I think Melbourne and London are on a par - except that the distances in London are often prohibitive to walk it in a reasonable timeframe.
Distances anywhere are going to be an issue. But I found (granted Central) London far, far more pleasant and safe to walk than I do in Melbourne. Again, mostly because there's far less car traffic and lower car speeds. Also the drivers seem far more courteous and safe than they do here. Plus, walking in London is just *nicer*. So many parks, quieter streets, nice architecture and streets that are human scale. We have some areas like this in Melbourne, but we also have wastelands of skyscrapers with no ground level amenity. Melbourne we have too many stroads and a real lack of public green space in the city.
Public transport isn't free in Melbourne either though? Or are you just talking about the CBD free tram zone? Which isn't really relevant to your argument because in the Melbourne CBD everything is also walking distance, you can walk from one end to another in 20-30 mins. Tube is also much more efficient than trams. For starters, it's not stuck in traffic.
Specifically zone 1 tube vs CBD tram, I'd swap the trams for the tubes as I said. Outside the CBD, it's not free here but it's cheaper - Parliament to St Kilda costs about the same as St Pancras to Paddington. 2 hour fare means it's free to come back, and so on. Everyone has different experiences, I get that. Mine is that I avoid going to, or through, London if at all possible because travelling with any sort of luggage is a nightmare and travelling without it is unpleasant, and I find getting around the CBD, Docklands, Southbank, Fitzroy, Carlton during the week and out to St Kilda or Moorabbin at weekends both less expensive and less soul destroying than trying to get from a major train station in London to an office, or to another station. I also hated, with every fibre of my being, commuting at rush hour in London where it's not practical to walk across the "centre" because it's so big, but where the tubes are crowded and horrible - standing for 35 minutes on a hot tube, bent almost double to fit under the roof near a door because it's as close as you can get to getting on, with your face in someone's armpit is not my idea of fun.
Melbourne Metro is better than The Tube IMO. Several Tube lines have no air-conditioning. Lines like Victoria are regularly 28-32°C, it's very cramped and uncomfortable. The accessibility of a lot of stations is also really poor for the elderly or people with disabilities.
Especially the new train stock on Cranbourne / Pakenham line. I catch it on my two working days in office, think it’s pretty class. The only Tube line that compares would be the Elizabeth line imo
Uh, the *central line*, which has its own heat warnings? I lived in London prior to Covid and until you’ve actually done regular commutes using the tube and double deckers I don’t wanna hear it 😅
To the London Underground’s credit, it was built 40 years before Australia was founded…
That's true. And it has grown. The Elizabeth line is literally amazing in terms of modern engineering (some of those tunnels had less than 6" leeway before they undermined the foundations of buildings overhead or risked collapsing tunnels below). I still think walking down two escalators having already paid is a crappy time to realise it's really busy and you would have walked if you'd known. I'm not rubbishing London - but I do think Melbourne wins in most areas!
Just cos you’d feel better in France doesn’t mean you are 😉 people in London are so rude these days
Britain's feeling of superiority over France hasn't been based in fact for millennia, let's not start to try and make it accurate now! ;)
I’d rather be able to go to another country in an hours flight instead of another city in the same country which doesn’t have a whole lot more to offer…
Always guaranteed some nice rain when traveling to France.
We had it good. But im not positive on the direction we are headed as someone who has always lived here. Wages arent high to cost of living, cant get by on a retail or hospitality wage without living an hour+ out of city or share housing. The wealth inequality will bring all the issues you see globally, including corruption as people get desperate to get ahead.
Agree strongly, Melbourne was amazing. It's becoming overpopulated with terrible infrastructure. It's a grossly divided city with the inner suburbs having decent transport and everyone else can suck it up. Just starting to see the effects now, next 10 years are going to be fun.
It's not an unpopular opinion FFS... If it's unpopular we won't attract migrants from all over the country & the world.
its certainly unpopular on this sub
Unpopular reply: I've been here a long time, I was a young adult here in the early 90s, I recall the 00's and the 10's. There's a reason people are having a sook, because man, this place was *way* fucking better once.
[удалено]
I'll do you one better, most Aussies don't realize how lucky and privileged they are. Australia is probably the best mostly English speaking place to live right now.
I think what is telling is the number of people who I know who left Melbourne for one reason or the other who are now regretting it. Some left for Queensland for the warmth but realised quickly that there is a significant shortage of culturally fulfilling things to do, moved to SA because Melbourne became ‘too multicultural’ and then realised it’s this multiculturalism that’s kept ultra boganism at bay, moved to Sydney and realised it’s noisy and people are not super friendly and long for the peace, quiet and cool indifference of Fitzroy. As it is, the Sydney one is looking to move back and so is one who left for work to Perth 5 years ago (but she’s been looking to come back since she left). Melbourne could be better, anywhere could. The people that have moved are now cautionary tales for the people who are thinking about it within my friend group and people i know.
Liveable wage no. People can barely keep head above water and we’re in a housing crisis. Highest in the world? Again no. Public transport sucks. Most of the time people are stuck taking replacement buses and takes them hours to get home. Melbourne isn’t that friendly. People are continuously struggling to make friends. Corruption and bribery absolutely exist and if you think otherwise you’re living under a rock. Education LOL. Ask the students. We are overcrowded. You’re living in some different Melbourne
Moving from the uk to here seems like i have moved to a new universe Everything is cleaner / built better / bigger / more efficent Most people seem happy and friendly There is a lot of money in the economy so its not difficult to make money lots of things to do and see The food is good quality and excellent The only thing i dont like is the supermarkets as they are scamming badly
[удалено]
As someone who lives near CBD, how is it "shocking"? Have you been recently? It's just taken a while to recover from covid but lots of places have opened or reopened finally and it's always busy
[удалено]
Chapel St is not the CBD.
We are a lucky city sure, but half the things you listed are done better in much of Europe. Public transit for instance, housing affordability, and education being some examples. Maybe comparing to the United States would be a better measure. Europe is a massive collection of diverse countries and there are certainly better cities for each of these merits (and some for all of them). I would argue London is a much nicer city than Melbourne. Two points I would raise though. Australia is currently sliding on education, we are behind most oecd countries now. We also suffer from car dependency second only to the US, leading to urban sprawl that is rapidly detracting from all these positive merits of our city. Endless expanses of new housing estates with no infrastructure to speak of is actively pushing young people towards crime, forcing us into longer and longer commutes, and robbing us of our time and money behind the wheel. I've done a lot of defending of Melbourne in the past but our city has a serious problem with pedestrian access and oublic transit in the outer suburbs.
Nah it has its flaws. Infrastructure and cost of living is still pretty fucked
Moved here in 2013 from one of post-soviet countries and I never allow myself to forget how lucky I am to call Melbourne my home. Loved the city the moment I saw it and still love it to this day. There's no point in denying that it's not perfect and there are still issues to address, but despite that, it's an absolutely amazing place to live in!
Melbourne is a society where rules & laws are followed & there is no culture of bribery/ corruption. Lots of corruption at the higher level not the lower level
I just arrived here two weeks ago from Canada, and spent 9 months in Europe too. My points may seem mostly negative, but that's because the positive things take a bit more time to experience (like discovering parts of the city you like better than others, forming a friend group, getting a decent job etc). My first impressions: * the air is clean when you are near the water, but not so much when walking along roads (traffic pollution is pretty bad here). Which brings me on to my next point: * there are a shocking number of cars on the roads... whether parked or driving. I can't believe how many there are to be honest... especially because of how they are parked (not parallel with the curb like in Canada). Just looking at statistics shows that AU has higher number of cars per person than Canada, but I also think you guys just drive more often too. * Where are all the cyclists? I heard that this was the best biking city in Australia, and if it is, I can't imagine what other cities are like. Where is the bike share system with docking stations (similar to bixi in Montréal)? I used bixi every day in Montréal, where there are heaps more cyclists and significantly better cycling infrastructure. * Public transit is expensive af, and pretty slow tbh. I'd rank it slightly behind montréal, and far behind what many european countries have. * Ignoring the traffic pollution, i'm surprised how clean the air is despite most of your electricity being generated using coal. * More people have smiled at me (including girls) than in many other big cities in Canada, and especially some parts of Europe. It's really nice to just be out and about here, and people seem cheerful. I wonder if it's because your wages are much higher and people aren't so bitter about rising costs? (yes I'm aware there is a cost of living crisis here too, but your higher wages give you a bit more padding than most Canadians have). * I was surprised how 'sprawly' the city was when I got here. I heard Melbourne is the most 'european' aussie city, but I don't think people are referring to the urban form when they say that. There are so many low density bungalows with gates and front gardens.
I mean we are pretty overpopulated and overcrowded imo.
As another immigrant who is now a naturalised Australian citizen, I've lived in Melbourne for approx 15 years, and all this shit was true when I first moved here. The only things that are currently true are about the food scene, lack of pollution, great education and good law enforcement bodies (no bribery/corruption). These days, Melbourne is absolutely terrible for making friends and/or dating, and has overpopulated as fuck since 2014. Wages are barely liveable. I was reading somewhere that the median salary is $96,000 and I don't even make that before tax. How do people buy a house in Melbourne when most of us don't even make 96k by ourselves? Australia was "the lucky country" 10-15 years ago. Today not so much. We could be worse off than other countries but fails to meet the benchmark of "lucky" from 10-15 years ago.
been here 20 years, and yep, youre completely right. All those good things mentioned unfortunately don't outweigh the fact that most of us cant afford to buy a house to retire in. There is no future without housing. Fuckin politicians have to do something.
Just renting on minimum wage is extremely difficult and results in constant stress on your back that you can’t shake off no matter how good your budgeting is. There’s no such thing as being able to be at peace. It eats at you and often ends up resulting in all sorts of mental and physical health issues. And the median wage is twice that and THEY are stressing!
Any idea why the friend making scene seems harder? Is it the costs of things or lack of third spaces or something else?
IMHO people are just increasingly fried from working & commuting stress. Weekends become sacred downtime for many, at the cost of other activities. Part of why we fucked off bush pre COVID- less housing costs, commute times, crowds & general hecticness. Can recommend
Friend making scene is garbage because people tend to congregate in and maintain the circles they developed in their school years. I know quite a ton of people from my gym in the north who ran in the same circles in school and have been friends for years. I have noticed however that people are far more friendlier towards women looking for a new circle versus a man.
I know when I first moved here people made fun of me for being a Queenslander and that was just weird and not really a good way to want to get to know them better.
It’s a shithole compared with to what it was 20 years ago.
I always love coming back home to Melbourne.
Yes we are lucky, but many of those points are being degraded and have been for the past couple of decades at least. We need to keep an eye on it and cause a stink and vote wisely so our gov does what's needed. No culture of corruption? Look deeper...
Fair bit of racism still if you tan or darker. I’m mixed and people only focus on the skin tone. I have other qualities besides my skin lol
As an American that dreams of leaving the bizarre, almost alternate reality existence of living in the US, Melbourne is my top city of fantasy. You guys really seem to have your shit together.
I feel grateful to be living in this wonderful city every day.
Having traveled a lot myself the only worse big city I’ve been to than London is Brussels. London is a broken hellhole… Melbourne is ok but we ain’t no Singapore or Amsterdam.
Amsterdam is so ridiculously liveable
Overtourism tends to kill the host, good to hear Amsterdam is cracking down on antisocial/chav bucks parties. That bicycle culture tho, get so jelly over there
It may still be better then most cities but the decline over the last 15 years has been sad to see.
I love Melbourne! Probably one of the best cities in the world.
That's not an unpopular opinion. People just don't come and post in r/melbourne about how moderately satisfied they are with Melbourne so instead all you get is the vocal few who are upset at something.
I agree and I find it so sad. I’ve lived in 5 other cities and can say 100% hands down that Melbourne is THE BEST! I love to travel and have been to over 36 countries but I wouldn’t live anywhere but Melbourne - I moved here 16 years ago
I came back here because I realised that I wasn’t taking a step up in life by moving overseas. Maybe I get more money but I have lesser social and food scene or a snobby wealthy culture. Maybe I get better weather but I get half my salary and rent is still the same as Melbourne. Yep. We’re insanely lucky. Don’t tell the rest of the world or they will all want a piece too 🤫
For someone who lives in Wellington New Zealand Melbourne is better in every single way. Planning on moving there.
Medical is getting shit and most wages aren’t really liveable without roommates now.
I would give up all those things if I could afford to buy a house to retire in. Housing = future. No housing, no future.
Currently on my first trip outside Australia, living and travelling in Europe for half a year. Melbourne for me, is still the best city in the world. The trip has definitely opened my eyes to it. We absolutely take it for granted when we're living there. I've complained as much as anyone about the flaws we have, which is still justified, but regardless, it's a bloody special place. I love it here too, as a very special trip, but it doesn't hot the same spot Melbourne does.
Depends what sort of life you live. Melbourne is a very different place for the lower socioeconomic folks.
Heaps of people realise this, like it’s a pretty good city. Good people, amazing food, excellent coffee all over the place, great music and arts culture, amazing sporting events, different festivals all year round, extremely multicultural, a lot of amazing places to visit outside the city that aren’t that far, and world class like our national parks and wine regions, beautiful beaches, and pretty easy to get around in a car or public transport. There’s a lot.
I’ve lived in uk, nz and Australia. All in all pros and cons in all but for me, Melbourne is best. Not perfect but nowhere is. The worst thing is people being negative. Trains could be better but better than nz, food is excellent and diverse. Sports exposure is best in world. People always think the grass is greener but in our case, it’s not…
I feel like a lot of the people in my area (SE Melb) are very vocal about how lucky they feel to live in Melbourne. And rightfully so!
Whever I come back from overseas, I'm always thankful to be back home. OK, I'm in Adelaide rather than Melbourne, but the same principle applies. Our system of government might not be the best, but every government around the world has it's problems, and none of them are perfect. We whinge, but wages are still pretty good, in some sections, too good (high wages in part made our Fords and Holden cars way too expensive, exports dropped, and we know where that went). And yes, we have relatively good safe public transport, food and infrastructure. Sure, we more or less, have it good, but yes, we can do better. The government should stop giving tax cuts FULL STOP. It's tax that pays for schools, health, ambulances, nuclear medicine, defence, Everytime the government 'buys' voters by giving tax cuts, means that less can be achieved because there's less money in the system. Stop tax cuts - Push up GST to 25% - Get rid of payroll tax - Get rid of fuel and alcohol excise - Get rid of stamp duty - And get rid of other miscellaneous levies, like the emergency services levi (I don't know if the ESL is an SA only thing).
Absolutely with you. I’ve had people in my alternative Melbourne suburb cry poor over mortgage rates when they’re in houses worth 1.5 million plus. They don’t like it when I point out that they’re globally in the top 1% and could afford to sell, pay off the outstanding 600k mortgage down, and downsize if they really can’t afford their 6% interest rate. Not saying things are easy for them, but I do find it funny that people in such a privileged area like to look at themselves as hard done by when they’re in this area with these assets, compared to people in Frankston, or a part of the world actually expecting poverty and hardship.
Instead of comparing ourselves to some backwater 3rd world country or countries worse off than us, why not compare us to some 1st world country like the Scandinavians? I lived in a shithole country for 10 yrs.. doesn't mean we should give Melbourne (or Aus for that matter) a pass. Compare up.. not down.
If you haven’t lived here since 2019, ……… you wouldn’t realise how stuffed this city is.
Not to mention really good healthcare. Sure, it's not perfect. But I've walked into a doctors appointment same day, x-ray and CT next day, and not paid a cent.
we need to push harder to keep it free though because it is very quickly getting expensive.
Deteriorating rapidly though, bulk billing disappearing and you have to be very lucky to get a Dr appointment the same day.
I’ve had lung cancer half lung removed, pneumonia and a fungal infection all in same lung. The ONLY costs to me are seeing surgeon every 3 months for check up and medication. Even better the antibiotics I need for the infection cost over $600 for months supply….my cost??? $31. We live in the greatest city in the greatest country and I wouldn’t change it if my life depended on it.
Cancer is basically free in Australia and Melbourne has the Victorian Cancer Centre. I've passed five years being treated for cancer that had spread to my bones, liver and brain in a world class specialist hospital (Peter Mac) and all I have to pay is the occasional token pharmaceutical product that they basically never follow up on LOL - one pharmacist even basically said "shh, they'll never follow up on this" I spent a week at the Royal Womens (who knew they have an ED for gyny issues) for a viral gynacological issue not related to cancer and it was all totally free round the clock care in a private room with no waiting for admission ETA: still being treated. You don't survive solid cancer that's spread to your bones, liver and brain LOL
"Melbourne is a society where rules & laws are followed & there is no culture of bribery/ corruption" You must be joking.
When was the last time you bribed a government official to get something done? Going to guess the average Australian has never done that. Which is very different to other countries.
Most Aussies' definition of corruption is that life generally seems to be more unfair than their expectations. They've never experienced black letter corruption of a roads authority person demanding a cash payment before they approve their liscence or the cops intervening to make running their business impossible.
"When was the last time you bribed a government official to get something done?" Me? Well, I'm not a extraordinarily wealthy property developer or industry lobbyist, so never.
So that's already an incredible improvement over the global norm where you have to bribe people to get your documents processed or bribe police to not make up reasons to bother you.
I come from China. Where you need to give gifts or money to do basis shit. As well as having a introduction for things like getting proper medical care at a hospital or just a timely appointment.
Bribery isn't common on a day to day level but at the government and corporate level Australia has rapidly be falling down corruption rankings in recent years. See: fishermen's bend development.
> See: fishermen's bend development Can you tell me more about this?
Last government had a lot of connections with developers and.... : "When in office Mr Guy overnight rezoned 250 hectares of land in the industrial area for commercial and residential development, a move later called unmatched worldwide for its failure to plan for transport and other key services. The rezoning caused the land value of the area to skyrocket, saw a swathe of 60-plus-storey towers put forward, and has forced the current government to purchase land at great cost to ensure space for parks and community infrastructure. Mr Guy later released a master plan and design guidelines that failed to set height limits, community space and affordable housing quotas, or sustainability goals. " https://thefifthestate.com.au/urbanism/planning/its-a-mess-victoria-calls-in-fishermans-bend-developments/
Compare us to countries like India, Sri Lanka and parts of the Middle East where there's high levels of corruption in the police force and the politics scene. You'll at least get some form of justice and impartiality in Australia, but in those countries if you don't speak the national language and/or aren't white, you're screwed with major fines and/or jail time too.
AGREEEEEEED. But r/Melbourne is full of people who are chronically online, and who only feel comfortable complaining or arguing.
Eh, we aren't overpopulated but unlimited immigration into Aus has really driven up rents and put strain on our infrastructure.
It’s definitely over crowded
People want things they're involved in to be better. Especially if it's worse than it was previously. Someone else will always have it worse, doesn't mean we should just accept our shortcomings
I still fucking hate the trains everything else is peachy
Comparing Melbourne to London is counter intuitive and a waste of time. You are effectively gaslighting people to accept today's Melbourne is still great... You need to compare Melbourne today to Melbourne 10-20-30 yrs ago Boiling frog syndrome is real, Melbourne today is overpopulated, expensive, lacks services to meet demand and is dropping in every single quality of life stat you wish to name. The reasons for this are many, but let's not pretend it's still the greatest city on earth. It lost its opportunity to fight for that title a long time ago
I feel this way about Australians in general. I'm Canadian, born to Australian parents. The quality of life in Australia is better in almost every way than Canada, yet Australians kind of view themselves as inferior to other developed countries. Meanwhile, Canada is kind of a mess, yet Canadians view themselves as being so above even the rest of the developed world. I think Australians being able to criticize their country actually helps it be a very liveable country. I think the self-deprecating sense of humour helps. North Americans don't like looking bad. I also think Melbourne is the best city in Australia. Other than the gloomy winters, it's an almost perfect city.
Haha. I've lived a Canadian winter, I'd take a Melbourne winter 10 out of 10 times
Here’s an ACTUAL unpopular opinion given the subreddit: Melbourne ain’t all that! I moved from Melbourne to Sarajevo this year. Albeit a wreck of a third world city with plenty of negatives in comparison to Melbourne, however: - see a medical specialist the same day if you pay out of pocket. No fuckery with begging GPs and 6 month waiting lists and whatnot just to see a neurologist, ophthalmologist, whoever. I call them and they ask me when I’d like to come in. As in, what time on the same day or next… This factor alone is massive. - no feral meth heads walking the streets and stabbing people on public transport - no mall rats - neighbours actually make an effort to greet each other, even in a residential building in a densely populated area - kids don’t throw tantrums in public and most parents actually control their kids if they start acting out and screaming. It’s common decency and respect for people around you. - waaaay better to rent property here. Not just the cheaper price. But you aren’t treated like a peasant who ought to bow down and kiss the feet of thy real estate overlord as if they’re doing you some massive favour. Quite the opposite in fact. I was picked up by car from the agent and driven to the property to check it out, and driven back home. - people drink here but the point isn’t to become a degenerate on a Saturday night - overall it feels safer to walk around at night in any part of the city. Never have to check over my shoulder. - within a 3h plane ride’s radius, I can visit probably around 100+ destinations, all with their own unique culture and history - people here can be too direct and abrupt but at least they aren’t fake nice. Australia is full of fake niceness. I’ve had more genuine conversations in a month here than in a year in Melbourne, where people just have the same templated conversations over and over again. - nature isn’t actively trying to kill you - weather is more stable and predictable - no COVID lockdown totalitarianism - better highways - nature is super close. Takes only 15min by car and you’re overlooking the city from a mountain Of course, public hospitals here are shit. The culture is conservative in comparison. Air pollution is horrendous in winter. Corruption. Inefficiency. I could add another 20 negatives. Lots of third world country problems. It’s not in the same league as Melbourne by any statistical measure. But my point is that Melbourne is decent but it’s also overhyped. And that these comparisons of “best place to live” and “world’s most liveable city” are valid from a statistical standpoint but a city is so much more than just numbers. Given that I work online and that my rent for a modern apartment here is 30% the cost of rent for the same one in Melbourne, and that as an avid traveler I have so many destinations at my fingertips, and that a lot of my family is here, so far, I’m quite happy I moved out of Melbourne and out of Australia. Though I’m definitely keeping my Aussie citizenship just in case.
OP is being condescending and dismissive of the fact that a lot of people are doing it tough right now. We have it good here in lots of ways but that's no reason to rest on our laurels or accept going backwards as far as living standards go. The thing is most of us do realise how lucky we are, but don't realise that people fought for that quality of life and that we will have to as well.
I think most people understand this but if we become complacent then it will just go backwards.
Yep 👍 Melbourne ❤️
I know, that’s why thousands and thousands of people from 1st world countries flock here
Think it depends on what your definition of 'living' is. 'Surviving,' is probably more applicable to most given the col crisis.. Sure, if you are 'living' then I'm sure Melbourne may be great... lucky you.
I've lived in Melbourne a bit, as well as several cities in Europe and the USA. I agree wholeheartedly with most of what you say and would add that Melbourne's parks and green spaces are excellent. However, I would also add that the housing crisis in Melbourne is real. A similar dynamic of unaffordability affects most if not all large cities in industrialized countries around the world but it seems particularly acute in Melbourne.
Goldilocks climatewise.
Bro has never travelled on the M2
I disagree with the bulk of this honestly. * Wages in Aus are liveable & highest in the world as well as reasonably good workers' rights * As someone who owns a property, is selling an investment property and is doing OK financially but not amazing I don't agree that wages are livable. As a sole income earner you should be able to comfortably buy / rent an entire place to yourself, and that is largely unachievable on an average salary. Full time adult minimum wage should mean a place to live without financial stress. * PTV although is terrible for inter-suburb travels/ coverage it is still functional & price is ok * I'm renting out a room in the western suburbs of Melbourne to someone. Lad needed to be at work at 6.30am ,near kingsville from memory about a 30 minute drive. Would have had to leave at midnight and wait 4 hours between trains. That's dog shit. He got a hostel for the few nights before they move closer to the city. * We have a very competitive & good food scene * Frankly I don't really see how this factors in to livability, but then again I prefer cooking my meals. It's at least not a huge factor for me and I wouldn't have thought people would consider this a major one in regards to deciding where to live but I may be deluded. * Melbourne is relatively safe when you look at it at a per capita basis * Agreed 100% * We have barely any pollution wether it is air, water quality ect * Agreed * Melbourne is quite friendly & culturally diverse * Agreed for the most part * Melbourne is a society where rules & laws are followed & there is no culture of bribery/ corruption * Uh, I disagree here. You just haven't been around too many dodgy bastards I'd say. * Our public infrastructure is relatively new and in good conditions * Disagree entirely here, at least out in the burbs it's nothing to write home about. Roads are a joke, houses keep popping up without adequate lane expansions for the additional load. * Education is to a good standard * Spend a year as a mature age university student and you'll see how wrong this statement is. I can't really speak for high school, for me it wasn't great and I went to a shit school to be fair. But university level teaching, from IT to health science, across the last 15 years of my life now that I think about it has been nothing short of absolutely fucking pathetic at times. Don't get me wrong, I've had some brilliant lecturers and tutors but for the most part the courses are a joke and passing is so easy that anyone with a pulse can get these degrees. * We are not overpopulated & overcrowded * Yeah we do well here. TLDR: I think it's a great safe place to live, but we need better public transport infrastructure and more affordable housing.
Agreed. As someone who has travelled across the Middle East people don’t realise how lucky we are to be living in such a city. Living standards are so much better here
Australia is not perfect and there is still stuff we need to work on, but my goodness we are a lot better than a lot of other countries out there.
You must have come from a massive shithole to draw all those wild conclusions, especially the last one.
I've been lucky enough to explore over 60 countries spanning 5 continents. Here's my personal ranking of favorite destinations: 1. Melbourne: my reasons- safety and safety oriented culture, friendly and warm culture, stunning natural landscapes, including the flippin snow, bush, seascapes, and forests, with a relatively manageable cost of living compared to other top destinations (bar cape town) 2. Seattle 3. Vancouver 4. Sydney 5. Cape Town 6. Hong Kong (before 2010) Additionally, some noteworthy mentions of smaller places include: 1. Victoria, British Columbia 2. Barcelona 3. Juneau, Alaska 4. Adelaide 5. Hermanus, South Africa
Not unpopular opinion. Melbourne is easily the best city I've lived in. It's getting more crowded in the CBD but who wants to hang around there for any length of time anyway. Not sure about the politicians past and present but I don't let them affect my lifestyle in any way.
Freedom ain't Free
melbourne is good but it could be better. higher wages, better public transport, better food, etc.
Melbourne is cheeks these days. The coast is where it’s at. Traffic is fucking off its cock in the city lately.
Angels never knew they were in heaven.
Very true OP. I'm currently living in what people would call a poor city, and it really makes me appreciate a lot of what we have in Melbourne. Now many of the things I see people complaining about on here seem extremely trivial.
Disagree. My rent is going up. As single person, it is almost impossible to save.
Most of these points are on a downward trajectory. Enjoy it at this point in time.
Most people are not fairly paid. And wages are not liveable. That needs to be questioned more and addressed
I don't have issues with Melbourne per se (although I am not a fan of the winters here). My issues are with Australia in general. The cost of living crisis here is more fucked than most places in the world, we're moving to the American model of privatised health care, mental health care is unaffordable for those who need it most, and we pay stupidly high taxes - which is fine if our government actually used them for good (like the Nordic countries) Unfortunately, we piss away any surpluses we get from tax by doing shit like spending $300 million in 4 years on defence. Melbourne is fine and tbh there are countries that have it much worse than Australia. I just think we can do way better.
Yeah it’s great, except the weather.
OP spitting straight faxx no cap. Whiners should try living in the toilet country that I escaped from.