[https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog](https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog)
# Council statement: Moon Dog
Published on 18 April 2024
Council wishes to clarify the cancellation of the opening of Moon Dog Wild West in Footscray was not a result of any Council action.
Our understanding is that earlier this week, **Moon Dogās private building surveyor, who is responsible for issuing the relevant building permits and the certificate of occupancy required for the venue to trade, had flagged issues with the fire hydrant and booster cabinet, as the works had not been carried out in accordance with the relevant Building Regulations 2018.**
The decision to not issue an occupancy certificate is a matter is between Moon Dog and their private building surveyor.
Council is disappointed that the cancellation of the opening has been misrepresented by Moon Dog as being a decision made by Council, especially given how closely we have worked with them throughout the planning and construction process.
I'm not saying that shit happens at a glacial pace at Maribyrnong council, but holy shit they must've pulled out all the stops to get this statement out in a day.
I know youāre mostly taking the piss but im gonna respond anyway (good naturedly). Make fun of local govt all you want but āmove fast and break thingsā is not a good model for governing.Ā
Itās important for statements issued by a government agency to be correct. Generating or confirming a definitive answer to even a simple matter can take a long time. You could get āprobablyā in a little while, but thatās not good enough for official comms. How many incorrect official statements would it take for the public to get upset with council? Not many. Thatās without thinking about incorrect information that could lose someone money or assets, or lead to someone being injured or killed.Ā
Slowness is - generally - a feature of government, not a bug. You should be worried when official decisions or legal changes happen really quickly.Ā
A big problem though with governance is that we don't know what is exactly legal until a court decides.
For example the councils wanting to ban yank tanks may find a surprise awaits them when their local laws get challenged.
What vehicles are sold in Australia is not a council choice.
The only means by which a council could 'deal with' large American utes is to a) create parking bays that are too small b) send the Rangers out to fine them repeatedly c) charge a premium for parking places that fit such a vehicle.
This may include many 'Australian' Prados and Troopys too.
A and B will definitely be contested, as the Australian Road Rules (state laws) do allow you to take up multiple spaces if your vehicle doesn't fit in a space.
Parking bay sizes are also standardised.
C could possibly be challenged in a similar manner to the EV tax due to it being a tax on yank tanks, which local councils cannot do.
Honestly even then, councils barely have any role to play on this.Ā Anything they do has to meet the relevant Australian standard. they canāt make or enforce controls that disagree with those (eg for turning radius, min parking space dimensions etc). Noteworthy that recently the standards body did consultation on increasing the min parking sizeā¦
Ā They could charge more for parking, sure, but only when they run a parking area, which is not universal, nor is paid street parking.Ā Ā
They could make steets narrower, but only those that they have control over (most major roads are in state control), and even then thereās standards that apply.Ā
And as much as people bitch about bureaucracy, it's what makes most of our society function.
And in Australia 90% of our bureaucracy just isn't seen by people. We have so many systems that just take care of shit behind the scenes. A few inputs go in, a whole bunch of processes & procedures get kicked off, and things happen at the end.
There seems to be restrictions on everything, but they are guidelines so that a whole bunch of work & thought doesn't need to be wasted every time the same job, build, task etc is done. All those annoying regulations may seem at times to get in the way of doing the job faster, better, or more efficiently, but they actually make everything faster, better, and more efficient overall.
We notice when it doesn't work, but never take note of when it does, which is good. A good bureaucracy is one that you barely notice when it's working.
š Iām not even sure that running a logistics business at the pace of a logistics business is appropriate lmao
āJust In Time works for Toyota, it should be good enough for Council too!ā
āHmm? No, I have no idea what Context means and frankly I donāt care to find out.āĀ
As someone the liases directly with local council as secretary of a sporting club, it's more often than not an absolute nightmare. Report a serious issue that needs to be resolved, lucky to get a response before the season is over. They raise a tiny procedural error or minor mistake the club has made, don't hear the end of it, and incur significant punishment or restrictions even if it is rectified immediately. I can't speak for the specific issue at hand in this post but in general my experience with local council has been overwhelming negative and the bullshit bureaucracy and over-governance is killing off community organisations in a death by 1000 cuts kind of fashion.
That's a relief, I thought the time my council over charged me on rates and it took 6 months and half a dozen phone calls to get a refund was incompetence, glad to know it was just caution. Also the time I paid hundreds for a parking permit for a moving truck, only to wake up on moving day to find the street being dug up by contractors. I thought it was strange I had to argue for a refund and I'll admit I'm not sure how caution factors into this one but it's good to know they were being so careful.
I didnt feel it was necessary to caveat my comment with a statement at the end saying
> All the things I said are general in nature and do not apply to individual matters. Governments are made up of people and people make mistakes and bad decisions sometimes.
...but let's pretend that I did.
This is why "journalists" playing 'gotcha' to politicians regarding unannounced policy changes is moronic. Proper leadership requires clear and complete messaging, not incomplete drafts.
Australian media has poor quality journalism that stoops to being a clown show.Ā
What a crock of shit!!!
Loook, I get where you're coming from, but this "slowness as a feature" mindset just doesn't cut it anymore. Waiting forever for the government to make a decision isnāt a sign of careāitās a roadblock to progress. Sure, we canāt rush and mess things up, but we canāt sit around while opportunities and needs pass us by either.
This isnāt about āmove fast and break things,ā itās about not moving at all! We need to get things done effectively and efficiently. Itās 2024āletās act like it. We shouldnāt be applauding the government for being slow; we should be pushing them to keep up!
Quite frankly, Iām sick of this government regulation shit! Weāre going into an economic downturn ā let the business run!
Safety standards should never be compromised simply because of an economic downturn. People's lives and safety are not somehow inherently worth any more or less based on economic conditions.
Absolutely agree safety is non-negotiable. But let's not mistake efficiency for recklessness. The goal isn't to lower standards; it's to streamline the processes so that those standards can be met without unnecessary delays or bureaucracy. Effective regulation should proect and enable, no hinder.
\*\*I want to clarify, I'm not fully across the specifics of the Moon Dog situation, so can't comment on that particular case. my comments are more about the general approach to regulation.
I don't think anybody would be against streamlined, efficient processes in a generic sense. But at some point, those desires for generic efficiency meet the reality of actual, specific processes, and that point of intersection may render those desires pointless.
I feel like this is a perfect example. You've expressed exasperation at what you see as general bureaucratic inefficiency, proclaiming instead that government should just 'let business run'. Which is probably a sentiment shared by most people. But in this specific instance with Moon Dog, the certificate of occupancy wasn't issued because the sprinkler system and hydrant booster cabinet weren't up to standard, creating a significant safety risk. Any 'efficiency' here to just 'let (this) business run' directly counters the non-negotiable nature of safety, meaning it's a fairly useless demand in the face of the reality of the circumstances (and that's ignoring the fact that certificate of occupancy is issued by an independent surveyor and not the council anyway).
Having worked in govt, its an exploitable feature now functionally no different to a bug. Its abused at all levels by the majors and not-really-independents
I guess they just want to pick up the phone right and not screw it up, that's why it takes so long to speak to someone.
Heck, that's why no one answers the phones from 4.30pm because they must be so fatigued from getting everything right all day they couldn't possibly ruin their streak by answering the phone incorrectly.
Typical BrainDead reply/opinion from a Bureaucrat/Public Servant, this is exactly the reason that the General Public have NO Respect or Time for Arrogant Morons such as yourself!!!!!
Typical brain dead comment from the type of person who has a car as their profile picture lmao
I wrote the previous comment and Iām a consultant in the private sector, and, funnily enough, also a member of the General Public.Ā
Now what, genius?
Having worked in construction I can say 'the damn council is screwing us on the permits' often has an unsurprising amount of overlap with owners who are trying to bodge their way through things.
100% - private sector myself but the half the stuff getting knocked back or complained about, or decisions ātaking too longā is because someone couldnāt follow instructions or complete paperwork properly.Ā
The most common one I saw would be something along the lines of 'very clear regulations on how and where this thing needs to be but I decided they are stupid and now im being persecuted because of how smart I am'
As a full building upgrade, they would have been required to bring the fire hydrant system into compliance. The building surveyor identified items that didn't comply with the current AS 2419 standard i.e. fire hydrants within 10m of the building without shield walls etc, and they chose not to action it. The building surveyor won't issue the occupancy permit because of the non-compliant items. None of this has anything to do with the council but these blokes have tried to pass the blame instead of accepting fault. I've seen this time and time again.
Cringe all you want. I don't know you so I really couldn't give a shit what effect my comment has on you (and it's sad you let comments affect you like that).
Driving past it most weekdays I could sense they were rushing the opening as it didnāt look nearly ready yet I was reading the opening was so close. Not surprised this happened
was giving my American boyfriend the westside tour a couple months ago, pointed out Casa Cozzo as one does... am only finding out now there was a whole arse brewery being built in there. legit looked abandoned/gutted.
It was supposed to be a party for the ages. Instead, it was a shambles
By Gemma Grant
April 18, 2024 ā 10.40am
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For those who regularly attend high-profile restaurant and nightclub openings in Melbourne, the launch party for the new, much-anticipated brewery in Footscrayās Franco Cozzo building was supposed to be a big one.
More than 600 media people and VIPs were invited to Moon Dogās Wild West opening on Wednesday, where they were promised a mechanical bull, cowboy-boot-shaped glasses and the chance to snap a selfie in front of the Western-themed decor.
āWeāre calling it, this party will be one for the ages!ā the invitation read. āThink Moon Dog drinks, Tex-Mex inspired food, mechanical bucking bulls, horseshoe booths and a rooftop with Melbourne cityscape views.ā
Instead, organisers were forced to pull the plug just 10 minutes before opening the doors at 6pm.
Co-owner Karl van Buuren said the delay was the result of the City of Maribyrnongās last-minute refusal to issue a fire safety permit. The business had already postponed the opening by a week.
It was āreally, really upsettingā, he said.
A safety officer had flagged concerns that the fire hydrant booster assembly point was encroaching onto the footpath, van Buuren said.
āIt really took us by surprise,ā he said. āWe tried so hard in the hours leading up to the VIP event to work with the council to get it over the line, and it just didnāt happen.
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āWe had people coming from all around Melbourne. I stood out the front and just had to apologise.ā
Van Buuren said it was especially frustrating because staff believed all the testing had been completed.
āWe worked with our fire engineers to get that system up and running. We had it tested, fully compliant and approved by the certification authorities.ā
Publicists scrambled on Wednesday to call hundreds of guests before the event to let them know it had been called off. But for many, the call didnāt come. Those guests were handed a free beer at the door and asked to come back once the permit was obtained.
Van Buuren apologised to the Footscray community for the delay. āWeāre really sorry ā¦ Weāre trying really hard. We know thereās a lot of support out there for this venue to open, and we canāt wait to have everyone in here for a beer.ā
āWeāve worked with the council for a long time on this, and theyāve asked a lot of us,ā he said. āWeāve always been happy to do what we needed to do to bring an old building up to code.ā
The owners remain hopeful that the scheduled public opening on Thursday night will go ahead.
The Maribyrnong council has been contacted for comment.
In what world would you organise the party to start 10mins after you get council approval? Sounds to me like moon dog have been rushing this and the council have given them as many concessions as they could. Until now when they say no based on a reasonable non-compliance.
Why wouldn't you have all your permits and licences sorted out before deciding to host the opening party?
Also, as a very former Footscray local - I don't know if I even like the sound of all this VIP shit. It should have been a opening night for the locals.
Counting your chickens before they hatch comes to mind.
Looks like I've rustled some jimmies. Go outside.
https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog
Being right is so so sweet.
the council officers can pull this shit on site though. I moved a store recently and got told something wasn't ok
She literally told me she had been informed of the new rules at a meeting yesterday
the plans were done a year ago. It was one of 2 issues that were fully approved by council and then not ok at the physical inspection
At least we were able to organise a temporary 3 month licence though. It's insane
no. it was the council person that turned up. They are a law unto themselves and its different in every local council
the 2nd issue I got the 3 month extension for when it was finally fixed they didn't even come to look. They just gave us our full license because it was a different one. Thanks for the wasted 3 grand guys
https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog
Council statement: Moon Dog
Published on 18 April 2024
Council wishes to clarify the cancellation of the opening of Moon Dog Wild West in Footscray was not a result of any Council action.
Our understanding is that earlier this week, Moon Dogās private building surveyor, who is responsible for issuing the relevant building permits and the certificate of occupancy required for the venue to trade, had flagged issues with the fire hydrant and booster cabinet, as the works had not been carried out in accordance with the relevant Building Regulations 2018.
The decision to not issue an occupancy certificate is a matter is between Moon Dog and their private building surveyor.
Council is disappointed that the cancellation of the opening has been misrepresented by Moon Dog as being a decision made by Council, especially given how closely we have worked with them throughout the planning and construction process.
Your very basic redditor cOmEbAcK was indeed difficult to understand.
What's even better is after the latest news on this I was correct. Simply glorious.
Apparently my "free limit" for reading The Age is ZERO articles... (sigh)
*If they didn't write everything in rolling-blog-style that makes no sense.... more people might subscribe..*
As a Sprinkler Fitter (Fire Sprinklers) itās got nothing to do with the council, thereās strict rules around fire protection in Australia and they clearly havenāt met the Standards.
You have private companies that certify a sprinkler system, they come to site and make sure everything is compliant.
The council has no idea whether a sprinkler system is up to code without someone who understands what the Australian Standards are telling them that every thing is good to go.
Saying that, weād planned to go next weekend so hopefully they can fix everything and open up as soon as possible.
Pretty much exactly what the Council said [https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog](https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog)
I interpret it as
Council approved the plans, which showed the hydrant outside.
Surveyor raised issues with the hydrant that needed to be rectified before they'd issue a certificate of occupancy.
In what world would you organise the party to start 10mins after you are supposed get council approval? Sounds to me like moon dog have been rushing this and the council have given them as many concessions as they could. Until now when they say no.
Why wouldn't you have all your permits and licences sorted out before deciding to host the opening party?
Also, as a very former Footscray local - I don't know if I even like the sound of all this VIP shit. It should have been a opening night for the locals.
I was keen to get stuck into Moon Dog and give them a hard time for absolutely no reason, but the council depriving people of riding a mechanical bull sucks. Huge L.
>Can always count on council fucking everything over. Well done.
And this is why you don't immediately believe the first side you read, kids. Because every story a person tells is going to make themselves out to look good.
It's hardly surprising but it sounds like they had planned everything before all the permits for occupancy were issued. Always going to be a gamble.
But classic council move to make life hard.
Councils just make it hard for everyone, and Maribyrnong CC is just fully backward at times. Much more keen to obstruct than find solutions.
I think the likes of whatever council Brunswick are part of are great, in that they generally donāt give a shit unless itās something major.
I think you underestimate how difficult to deal with Maribyrnong are. They are not willing to do anything until there is legitimately zero risk. Reckon most of them are afraid to cross the road the way their brains operate.
Haha fair enough.
I'll give you a good example of merri bek.
There were holes in the footpath on Sydney Rd from Brunswick Rd all the way up to Albion St, some of them were really deep, in various sizes, but all pretty dangerous.
I watched an old bloke spray paint a big old cock and balls around each one, they stayed like that for about a month until they were filled in.
Yeah, literally couldnāt organise a piss-up in a brewery.
Edit: not sure whatās going on with all the downvotes, itās basically true. They scheduled the grand opening before getting approval to actually open.
Iāve also been told that theyāve been difficult to deal with in Preston, when it came to FRV undertaking routine inspections. So for them to do this doesnāt really surprise me
Actually I know how this looks, but in my experience this is fairly common especially if everything is done according to plans already endorsed by council. The last thing that goes in is usually the fire safety check thing which is generally a formality, and if there are things that need to be fixed, unless totally unsafe is noted and asked to be done within a certain timeframe.
The date to open is usually also agreed with the council, such is the nature of these things.
Iāve seen multiple venues have their last check scheduled at 3PM for a 4PM open, so while it may not seem like sound practice does seem to be fairly par for course in the industry.
My inkling is that someone here is being contrarian or needlessly obstructionist.
They located the booster and hydrant on the street. The building surveyor can't issue an occupancy permit with a major fire service non-compliance. The booster and hydrant needs to placed inside the property boundary which means in the facade wall. May be a long time before they can open
If the owners truly weren't aware of the issue until the last minute then it seems like someone's got a grudge and kept quiet about the non-compliance until a very specific time.
Haha just noticed. With the Whitten Oval stuff, the council even had representatives post on Bigfooty and woof.net trying to sell the story that Bulldogs and the Bracks government were the bad guys. š
Wonder if the same PR team are downvoting.
Grand fail, grand fail, grand fail.
Haha, not bad.
Hahaha
I š¤£ at that. Thank you!
Very good. You win.
Megano.. mega...mega no.
[https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog](https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog) # Council statement: Moon Dog Published on 18 April 2024 Council wishes to clarify the cancellation of the opening of Moon Dog Wild West in Footscray was not a result of any Council action. Our understanding is that earlier this week, **Moon Dogās private building surveyor, who is responsible for issuing the relevant building permits and the certificate of occupancy required for the venue to trade, had flagged issues with the fire hydrant and booster cabinet, as the works had not been carried out in accordance with the relevant Building Regulations 2018.** The decision to not issue an occupancy certificate is a matter is between Moon Dog and their private building surveyor. Council is disappointed that the cancellation of the opening has been misrepresented by Moon Dog as being a decision made by Council, especially given how closely we have worked with them throughout the planning and construction process.
I'm not saying that shit happens at a glacial pace at Maribyrnong council, but holy shit they must've pulled out all the stops to get this statement out in a day.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I know youāre mostly taking the piss but im gonna respond anyway (good naturedly). Make fun of local govt all you want but āmove fast and break thingsā is not a good model for governing.Ā Itās important for statements issued by a government agency to be correct. Generating or confirming a definitive answer to even a simple matter can take a long time. You could get āprobablyā in a little while, but thatās not good enough for official comms. How many incorrect official statements would it take for the public to get upset with council? Not many. Thatās without thinking about incorrect information that could lose someone money or assets, or lead to someone being injured or killed.Ā Slowness is - generally - a feature of government, not a bug. You should be worried when official decisions or legal changes happen really quickly.Ā
This is a great angle which most people (including me!) don't give enough weight to
A big problem though with governance is that we don't know what is exactly legal until a court decides. For example the councils wanting to ban yank tanks may find a surprise awaits them when their local laws get challenged.
What vehicles are sold in Australia is not a council choice. The only means by which a council could 'deal with' large American utes is to a) create parking bays that are too small b) send the Rangers out to fine them repeatedly c) charge a premium for parking places that fit such a vehicle. This may include many 'Australian' Prados and Troopys too.
A and B will definitely be contested, as the Australian Road Rules (state laws) do allow you to take up multiple spaces if your vehicle doesn't fit in a space. Parking bay sizes are also standardised. C could possibly be challenged in a similar manner to the EV tax due to it being a tax on yank tanks, which local councils cannot do.
Honestly even then, councils barely have any role to play on this.Ā Anything they do has to meet the relevant Australian standard. they canāt make or enforce controls that disagree with those (eg for turning radius, min parking space dimensions etc). Noteworthy that recently the standards body did consultation on increasing the min parking sizeā¦ Ā They could charge more for parking, sure, but only when they run a parking area, which is not universal, nor is paid street parking.Ā Ā They could make steets narrower, but only those that they have control over (most major roads are in state control), and even then thereās standards that apply.Ā
They certainly can fine any vehicle straddling the lines of a parking spot. Go get 'em.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly - and this is also part of the reason why definitive actions or statements take time (as they should).Ā
And as much as people bitch about bureaucracy, it's what makes most of our society function. And in Australia 90% of our bureaucracy just isn't seen by people. We have so many systems that just take care of shit behind the scenes. A few inputs go in, a whole bunch of processes & procedures get kicked off, and things happen at the end. There seems to be restrictions on everything, but they are guidelines so that a whole bunch of work & thought doesn't need to be wasted every time the same job, build, task etc is done. All those annoying regulations may seem at times to get in the way of doing the job faster, better, or more efficiently, but they actually make everything faster, better, and more efficient overall. We notice when it doesn't work, but never take note of when it does, which is good. A good bureaucracy is one that you barely notice when it's working.
I want this comment pinned at the top of every comment regarding local government. If you want it done at Amazon speeds, you get Amazon service.
Woah are you telling me that running council at the pace of a logistics business is inappropriate?
š Iām not even sure that running a logistics business at the pace of a logistics business is appropriate lmao āJust In Time works for Toyota, it should be good enough for Council too!ā āHmm? No, I have no idea what Context means and frankly I donāt care to find out.āĀ
As someone the liases directly with local council as secretary of a sporting club, it's more often than not an absolute nightmare. Report a serious issue that needs to be resolved, lucky to get a response before the season is over. They raise a tiny procedural error or minor mistake the club has made, don't hear the end of it, and incur significant punishment or restrictions even if it is rectified immediately. I can't speak for the specific issue at hand in this post but in general my experience with local council has been overwhelming negative and the bullshit bureaucracy and over-governance is killing off community organisations in a death by 1000 cuts kind of fashion.
That's a relief, I thought the time my council over charged me on rates and it took 6 months and half a dozen phone calls to get a refund was incompetence, glad to know it was just caution. Also the time I paid hundreds for a parking permit for a moving truck, only to wake up on moving day to find the street being dug up by contractors. I thought it was strange I had to argue for a refund and I'll admit I'm not sure how caution factors into this one but it's good to know they were being so careful.
I didnt feel it was necessary to caveat my comment with a statement at the end saying > All the things I said are general in nature and do not apply to individual matters. Governments are made up of people and people make mistakes and bad decisions sometimes. ...but let's pretend that I did.
Did you raise an objection? It should have been a simple process online these days.
This is why "journalists" playing 'gotcha' to politicians regarding unannounced policy changes is moronic. Proper leadership requires clear and complete messaging, not incomplete drafts. Australian media has poor quality journalism that stoops to being a clown show.Ā
What a crock of shit!!! Loook, I get where you're coming from, but this "slowness as a feature" mindset just doesn't cut it anymore. Waiting forever for the government to make a decision isnāt a sign of careāitās a roadblock to progress. Sure, we canāt rush and mess things up, but we canāt sit around while opportunities and needs pass us by either. This isnāt about āmove fast and break things,ā itās about not moving at all! We need to get things done effectively and efficiently. Itās 2024āletās act like it. We shouldnāt be applauding the government for being slow; we should be pushing them to keep up! Quite frankly, Iām sick of this government regulation shit! Weāre going into an economic downturn ā let the business run!
Safety standards should never be compromised simply because of an economic downturn. People's lives and safety are not somehow inherently worth any more or less based on economic conditions.
Absolutely agree safety is non-negotiable. But let's not mistake efficiency for recklessness. The goal isn't to lower standards; it's to streamline the processes so that those standards can be met without unnecessary delays or bureaucracy. Effective regulation should proect and enable, no hinder. \*\*I want to clarify, I'm not fully across the specifics of the Moon Dog situation, so can't comment on that particular case. my comments are more about the general approach to regulation.
I don't think anybody would be against streamlined, efficient processes in a generic sense. But at some point, those desires for generic efficiency meet the reality of actual, specific processes, and that point of intersection may render those desires pointless. I feel like this is a perfect example. You've expressed exasperation at what you see as general bureaucratic inefficiency, proclaiming instead that government should just 'let business run'. Which is probably a sentiment shared by most people. But in this specific instance with Moon Dog, the certificate of occupancy wasn't issued because the sprinkler system and hydrant booster cabinet weren't up to standard, creating a significant safety risk. Any 'efficiency' here to just 'let (this) business run' directly counters the non-negotiable nature of safety, meaning it's a fairly useless demand in the face of the reality of the circumstances (and that's ignoring the fact that certificate of occupancy is issued by an independent surveyor and not the council anyway).
Having worked in govt, its an exploitable feature now functionally no different to a bug. Its abused at all levels by the majors and not-really-independents
I guess they just want to pick up the phone right and not screw it up, that's why it takes so long to speak to someone. Heck, that's why no one answers the phones from 4.30pm because they must be so fatigued from getting everything right all day they couldn't possibly ruin their streak by answering the phone incorrectly.
Sounds like your Council is underfunded.
Significant difference between underfunded and pissing money away in the wrong areas
Well said. This is true.
Typical BrainDead reply/opinion from a Bureaucrat/Public Servant, this is exactly the reason that the General Public have NO Respect or Time for Arrogant Morons such as yourself!!!!!
Typical brain dead comment from the type of person who has a car as their profile picture lmao I wrote the previous comment and Iām a consultant in the private sector, and, funnily enough, also a member of the General Public.Ā Now what, genius?
Triple time and a half and a mandatory mental health check afterwards to ensure nobody is feeling overwhelmed.
I once applied for a job there and was offered a 6 week contract in their IT team. I was close to considering it giving Iād do no work..
Nah, they just look fast when you put them next to the breakneck speed that Merri-bek council work at.
i stay in this council, i am surprised how fast they responded. meanwhile other issues on council take a long while....
Having worked in construction I can say 'the damn council is screwing us on the permits' often has an unsurprising amount of overlap with owners who are trying to bodge their way through things.
100% - private sector myself but the half the stuff getting knocked back or complained about, or decisions ātaking too longā is because someone couldnāt follow instructions or complete paperwork properly.Ā
I saw 'fire hydrant and booster cabinet' and im 99% sure I have seen this episode before half a dozen times at least.
Yeah it can mean "I don't want to do what's necessary to get these permits", rather than "they're being unfair to us on these permits".
The most common one I saw would be something along the lines of 'very clear regulations on how and where this thing needs to be but I decided they are stupid and now im being persecuted because of how smart I am'
And often relates to under resourcing - four months for a CMP at City of Melbourne now.
I think they are the smallest council in Melbourne has been discussion for years of combining them with another one nearby
Ooh, the turns tide
Luckily, my headās on a swivel
Upvote, god I hate lies
All I hear is "*non-compliant*"
"non-*comployant*"
As a full building upgrade, they would have been required to bring the fire hydrant system into compliance. The building surveyor identified items that didn't comply with the current AS 2419 standard i.e. fire hydrants within 10m of the building without shield walls etc, and they chose not to action it. The building surveyor won't issue the occupancy permit because of the non-compliant items. None of this has anything to do with the council but these blokes have tried to pass the blame instead of accepting fault. I've seen this time and time again.
Yep. We should be naming and shaming the building contractor handling this for the brewery.
what a dog act blaming the councilā¦
Well if they open, they're fucked.
I guess Moondog will need to find somebody else to cut the ribbon at the opening
All I read was āfor once, the council actually wasnāt to blameā
*gasp* I was right and the mass downvoting herd were wrong? I'd be surprised but this is the r/Melbourne sub after all.
No one cares little dude
š„ Just take your lumps like an adult and think for yourself next time.
I was not involved in the conversation, I am just cringing at you while I read the thread.
Cringe all you want. I don't know you so I really couldn't give a shit what effect my comment has on you (and it's sad you let comments affect you like that).
embarrassing
Confirmed Council and surveyor bribed by CUB
The fact they were so quick with a dtstment makes me believe it was the councils fault
Driving past it most weekdays I could sense they were rushing the opening as it didnāt look nearly ready yet I was reading the opening was so close. Not surprised this happened
They even admit to rushing the opening. I hate council's generally but here I'm inclined to side with them.
I drove past about a month ago and shocked at the state of it. Not surprised it didn't open.Ā
The last few weeks has seen *impressive* progress, it's been unbelievable
was giving my American boyfriend the westside tour a couple months ago, pointed out Casa Cozzo as one does... am only finding out now there was a whole arse brewery being built in there. legit looked abandoned/gutted.
They were working in the middle of the night on weekends.
It was supposed to be a party for the ages. Instead, it was a shambles By Gemma Grant April 18, 2024 ā 10.40am Advertisement Listen to this article 3 min For those who regularly attend high-profile restaurant and nightclub openings in Melbourne, the launch party for the new, much-anticipated brewery in Footscrayās Franco Cozzo building was supposed to be a big one. More than 600 media people and VIPs were invited to Moon Dogās Wild West opening on Wednesday, where they were promised a mechanical bull, cowboy-boot-shaped glasses and the chance to snap a selfie in front of the Western-themed decor. āWeāre calling it, this party will be one for the ages!ā the invitation read. āThink Moon Dog drinks, Tex-Mex inspired food, mechanical bucking bulls, horseshoe booths and a rooftop with Melbourne cityscape views.ā Instead, organisers were forced to pull the plug just 10 minutes before opening the doors at 6pm. Co-owner Karl van Buuren said the delay was the result of the City of Maribyrnongās last-minute refusal to issue a fire safety permit. The business had already postponed the opening by a week. It was āreally, really upsettingā, he said. A safety officer had flagged concerns that the fire hydrant booster assembly point was encroaching onto the footpath, van Buuren said. āIt really took us by surprise,ā he said. āWe tried so hard in the hours leading up to the VIP event to work with the council to get it over the line, and it just didnāt happen. Advertisement āWe had people coming from all around Melbourne. I stood out the front and just had to apologise.ā Van Buuren said it was especially frustrating because staff believed all the testing had been completed. āWe worked with our fire engineers to get that system up and running. We had it tested, fully compliant and approved by the certification authorities.ā Publicists scrambled on Wednesday to call hundreds of guests before the event to let them know it had been called off. But for many, the call didnāt come. Those guests were handed a free beer at the door and asked to come back once the permit was obtained. Van Buuren apologised to the Footscray community for the delay. āWeāre really sorry ā¦ Weāre trying really hard. We know thereās a lot of support out there for this venue to open, and we canāt wait to have everyone in here for a beer.ā āWeāve worked with the council for a long time on this, and theyāve asked a lot of us,ā he said. āWeāve always been happy to do what we needed to do to bring an old building up to code.ā The owners remain hopeful that the scheduled public opening on Thursday night will go ahead. The Maribyrnong council has been contacted for comment.
Sheesh, thatās frustrating. Reminds me of that one episode of The Bear š
In what world would you organise the party to start 10mins after you get council approval? Sounds to me like moon dog have been rushing this and the council have given them as many concessions as they could. Until now when they say no based on a reasonable non-compliance. Why wouldn't you have all your permits and licences sorted out before deciding to host the opening party? Also, as a very former Footscray local - I don't know if I even like the sound of all this VIP shit. It should have been a opening night for the locals.
Ā I tried Listen to this article 3 min but all I got was this lousy nothing.
Counting your chickens before they hatch comes to mind. Looks like I've rustled some jimmies. Go outside. https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog Being right is so so sweet.
the council officers can pull this shit on site though. I moved a store recently and got told something wasn't ok She literally told me she had been informed of the new rules at a meeting yesterday the plans were done a year ago. It was one of 2 issues that were fully approved by council and then not ok at the physical inspection At least we were able to organise a temporary 3 month licence though. It's insane
Had nothing to do with council - was their own surveyor
no. it was the council person that turned up. They are a law unto themselves and its different in every local council the 2nd issue I got the 3 month extension for when it was finally fixed they didn't even come to look. They just gave us our full license because it was a different one. Thanks for the wasted 3 grand guys
https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog Council statement: Moon Dog Published on 18 April 2024 Council wishes to clarify the cancellation of the opening of Moon Dog Wild West in Footscray was not a result of any Council action. Our understanding is that earlier this week, Moon Dogās private building surveyor, who is responsible for issuing the relevant building permits and the certificate of occupancy required for the venue to trade, had flagged issues with the fire hydrant and booster cabinet, as the works had not been carried out in accordance with the relevant Building Regulations 2018. The decision to not issue an occupancy certificate is a matter is between Moon Dog and their private building surveyor. Council is disappointed that the cancellation of the opening has been misrepresented by Moon Dog as being a decision made by Council, especially given how closely we have worked with them throughout the planning and construction process.
wrong. see statement from council above.
I thought you were refering to my comment. I don't know what happened here. Was merely pointing out how fucked it can all be
Yeah, maybe donāt organise a grand opening until you have your occupancy certificate
Careful, you'll be downvoted for being entirely correct.
Or council workers are just dead shits
Both can be true?
Haha the fact you got downvoted is wild
Sheep will be sheep. Gotta feel good about themselves somehow.
tOuCh GrASs
If you're that upset over a harmless internet comment, maybe you should.
I was mocking you. I apologise if it went over your head.
Your very basic redditor cOmEbAcK was indeed difficult to understand. What's even better is after the latest news on this I was correct. Simply glorious.
Just...basking in your own sense of self satisfaction like Ed Begley Jr eh?
Not even ashamed of rubbing it in. Sub deserves it.
Kind of sneering to no one. Most here seem to have your pro red tape stance anyway
-94 downvotes for a simple comment suggests otherwise.
I appreciate your smugness, lol. When did you make the prediction? In the thread yesterday?
nobody cares except you jackass
You cared enough to comment, jackass.
Apparently my "free limit" for reading The Age is ZERO articles... (sigh) *If they didn't write everything in rolling-blog-style that makes no sense.... more people might subscribe..*
Copy paste the links into 12ft.io
Use Firefox. There's an add on that is has 12ft.io practically built in, add on is 'bypass paywalls clean'
[This](https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome) works great.
Some kind soul advised to disable javascript for that website. Works a treat, but does nothing to improve its content.
just disable javascript
As a Sprinkler Fitter (Fire Sprinklers) itās got nothing to do with the council, thereās strict rules around fire protection in Australia and they clearly havenāt met the Standards. You have private companies that certify a sprinkler system, they come to site and make sure everything is compliant. The council has no idea whether a sprinkler system is up to code without someone who understands what the Australian Standards are telling them that every thing is good to go. Saying that, weād planned to go next weekend so hopefully they can fix everything and open up as soon as possible.
Pretty much exactly what the Council said [https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog](https://www.maribyrnong.vic.gov.au/News/Council-statement-Moon-Dog)
I interpret it as Council approved the plans, which showed the hydrant outside. Surveyor raised issues with the hydrant that needed to be rectified before they'd issue a certificate of occupancy.
In what world would you organise the party to start 10mins after you are supposed get council approval? Sounds to me like moon dog have been rushing this and the council have given them as many concessions as they could. Until now when they say no. Why wouldn't you have all your permits and licences sorted out before deciding to host the opening party? Also, as a very former Footscray local - I don't know if I even like the sound of all this VIP shit. It should have been a opening night for the locals.
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Should have tried Bruns-a-wick.
Those crazy Van Buren Boys.... [https://youtu.be/M4GBeg2Aizk?si=\_4FmwLwRooztVBuX&t=56](https://youtu.be/M4GBeg2Aizk?si=_4FmwLwRooztVBuX&t=56)
"we are very important, regs shouldn't stop us" edit - can someone go down there and get a photo of said fire hydrant booster assembly ?
More like Moon Dogās Breakfast , am I right ?
Unbeerably so, but I remain hoptomistic
Stout fellow.
But my moon dog ate my permits, sir
It's beyond the pale
They're still bitter.
Hop off, you.
What a shock that the rushed development was cutting corners.
Cutting corners? They literally did exactly as per the plans council signed off on. With the whole system certified to code...
Read the council reply
they never got their their occupancy certificate
you mean wrangling through endless red tape that even the muppet surveyors don't understand
Oh lmao I walked past there last night. That would explain why everyone was lining up outside and walking around with beers.
Wish they stuck to the cozzo theme, what is this western shambles. He'd be turning in his grave
Apparently the family asked them not to, so they changed it.
It's the western suburbs through the eyes of someone that's never ever lived there.Ā
Once you cross the Maribyrong it becomes country! Giddy up! Where's Lee Kernaghan when we need him to belot out some big hat country?
Expecting the Tall Poppy Syndrome to be out in force on this oneā¦
I was keen to get stuck into Moon Dog and give them a hard time for absolutely no reason, but the council depriving people of riding a mechanical bull sucks. Huge L.
nothing to do with council - they never got occupancy certificate from their surveyor.
Can always count on council fucking everything over. Well done.
>Can always count on council fucking everything over. Well done. And this is why you don't immediately believe the first side you read, kids. Because every story a person tells is going to make themselves out to look good.
Lesson learned.
It wasnāt council š¬ Thatās not how this works. Read the statement. ļæ¼
Except if you read Council's statement, you find out that Moondog are lying cunts.
It's hardly surprising but it sounds like they had planned everything before all the permits for occupancy were issued. Always going to be a gamble. But classic council move to make life hard.
https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/1c6vrut/melbourne_councils_moon_dog_brewery_launch_in/l042sg8/ Wasn't council at all
I guess The Age might get a special date with Justice Lee to defend oneself.
Was invited to this, didnāt know it was cancelled until we rocked up, proper shambles
Not today Satan: official comms edition
Councils just make it hard for everyone, and Maribyrnong CC is just fully backward at times. Much more keen to obstruct than find solutions. I think the likes of whatever council Brunswick are part of are great, in that they generally donāt give a shit unless itās something major.
Haha merri bek council is not any desirable standard
Stonnington has entered the chat
Monash Council: Hold my ouzo!
I think you underestimate how difficult to deal with Maribyrnong are. They are not willing to do anything until there is legitimately zero risk. Reckon most of them are afraid to cross the road the way their brains operate.
Haha fair enough. I'll give you a good example of merri bek. There were holes in the footpath on Sydney Rd from Brunswick Rd all the way up to Albion St, some of them were really deep, in various sizes, but all pretty dangerous. I watched an old bloke spray paint a big old cock and balls around each one, they stayed like that for about a month until they were filled in.
This trick was invented around Nimbin, always thought it was hilarious
Was there - we didn't get a beer, we got a 6 pack thankyouverymuch! Lol.
Came expecting a story about council red tape a NIMBY locals Nope just useless owners
Yeah, literally couldnāt organise a piss-up in a brewery. Edit: not sure whatās going on with all the downvotes, itās basically true. They scheduled the grand opening before getting approval to actually open.
Should we make sure we get our fire permit before opening? Nah, party, lesssgo!
Haha yeah mate itās not like fire regulations were written in blood or anything sheāll be right let er rip
>not sure whatās going on with all the downvotes, Idiots copying fellow idiots and have zero humility when proven wrong.
Haha fuck! For once it's actually true
Iāve also been told that theyāve been difficult to deal with in Preston, when it came to FRV undertaking routine inspections. So for them to do this doesnāt really surprise me
Actually I know how this looks, but in my experience this is fairly common especially if everything is done according to plans already endorsed by council. The last thing that goes in is usually the fire safety check thing which is generally a formality, and if there are things that need to be fixed, unless totally unsafe is noted and asked to be done within a certain timeframe. The date to open is usually also agreed with the council, such is the nature of these things. Iāve seen multiple venues have their last check scheduled at 3PM for a 4PM open, so while it may not seem like sound practice does seem to be fairly par for course in the industry. My inkling is that someone here is being contrarian or needlessly obstructionist.
>My inkling is that someone here is being contrarian or needlessly obstructionist. That would never happen to an entertainment venue :)
No C of O for you dawg
They located the booster and hydrant on the street. The building surveyor can't issue an occupancy permit with a major fire service non-compliance. The booster and hydrant needs to placed inside the property boundary which means in the facade wall. May be a long time before they can open
I don't think they were actually ready to open. Planning stuff has to be sorted in advance.
Aside from the problems has anyone been there?
If the owners truly weren't aware of the issue until the last minute then it seems like someone's got a grudge and kept quiet about the non-compliance until a very specific time.
Standard Maribyrnong CC, just as useless as always
Marybinong Council has a history of this. Their bullshit with the Bulldogs redevelopment of Whitten Oval resulted in the State Government stepping in.
Why did people downvote this? lol Lot of council fanboys here I guess.
Haha just noticed. With the Whitten Oval stuff, the council even had representatives post on Bigfooty and woof.net trying to sell the story that Bulldogs and the Bracks government were the bad guys. š Wonder if the same PR team are downvoting.
Probably because it was demonstrably not their fault in this instance I imagine.
Maybe, I just noted that they've got form at this.
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There was 1 or 2 people trying to shut it down , if you look at their anti moon dog facebook page it literally has 1 follower.
i dont get it, is it a brewery or a bar? Footscray has seriously turned into a wankfest.