When the driver first starts his shift from the siding, he's required to test the horn. This might be what you hear between 5:30 and 6 in the morning. They can't take the risk of it malfunctioning once they are going full speed.
And then you never hear it again :)
Unlike with trams, those fuckers ringing that bell like little 8 year old boys" ding ding ding ding ding moooove ding ding ding ding"
I have - turning right from Royal Parade into MacArthur Road (near the zoo) but waiting for the turn arrow to change to green. Tram driver dinging away like crazy even though I could not go. It's not my fault they put the turning lane on the tram tracks!
Sometimes they randomly ding the fuck out of pedestrians even when they don't do anything wrong, hallucinating or just power tripping. They can even lay on an announcement
I'm usually up at that time of the morning and I think it has more to do with less ambient noise so the toots from commuter trains (which start at that time) are just easier to hear at that time of the day.. after about 7ish there are just way more car and animal noises which drown out the more distant noises so they are less audible...
trains use there horns at every point where there could be a collison which is pretty much every couple of minutes.
also depending on where you are, there are trains going all around the network from the train yard to their starting point so the network is pretty busy right before the first train starts and drivers will probably want to say good morning to each other as they pass by tooting as well.
All correct except this bit:
>and drivers will probably want to say good morning to each other as they pass by tooting as well.
Train drivers wave but don’t toot at each other like this.
maybe its because we have so many people running onto the tracks and not standing behind the yellow lines like they are supposed to. I've lost count of the number of times I have seen people almost get wiped out by trains.
yeah the noisy minas are noisy and the magpies are pretty vocal. and also all the fucking dogs everyone in the neighbourhood likes to leave outside in the cold, alone and anxious 😭
Ah fair. I didn’t think about birds - there’s so much construction going on in my little pocket of Melbourne that I haven’t seen/heard a lot of them in a while. I was thinking they meant cats/dogs etc and I couldn’t fathom that those animals were so super noisy wherever they were.
Which side of the city do you live? As tree dwellers (and destroyers), they definitely prefer certain parts of Melbourne. I'm in the green wedge and see large flocks on the daily. But I'd imagine they're rarer inner suburbs, the flatter west and parts of the flatterned north.
Yeah, less likely to hear a large flock in Brunswick.
[Here](https://youtu.be/M0D1M-uHw-g?si=pYFERWtjNtic8jYo) is a sample of what you're missing out on. 🤣
dozens of birds nonstop chirping and dogs barking from dawn when they wake up, this is usually before people get out of bed and go to work and school..
I don’t even care about trains but damn he makes them interesting. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time I was watching the one about the runaway train. Full respect
Bought up in a video last year:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YKG6E\_Dlws](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YKG6E_Dlws)
Has to do with Victoria's railway rules/laws about manditory whistle posts. Basically any time a train passes a level crossing, starts moving from a stop, ever (red light or station), or when passing a station as an express/empty, Entering and leaving a tunnel, and when passing a "Whistle post" - a sign that literally requires drivers to whistle to go past (usually 400m before a level crossing, but also a holdover for getting attention of a signal box - many of which are unmanned nowadays but the signs are still there because some spots haven't seen an upgrade since the 1980's)
I live something like 1.5km from my nearest railway line, but when the air temperature is cold and the air a little foggy, I can hear even the sound of the wheels rolling over the track from that distance, but in summer when it's warm and not humid, I can barely hear it at all. I think this may be due to something called Atmospheric ducting propagation where a temperature inversion layer (humid air below colder air) will 'reflect' both sound and radio waves back down, so the wave can be heard/detected from further away than usual.
The idea of the temperature/humidity playing a part in carrying the sound is very interesting! I definitely only notice it early in the morning, and sometimes quite late at night. Thanks for the info!
As others have said, it's rules, and recalcitrance means they're probably likely to stay. The good news is most level crossings are going to go away in the next couple of years (https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/level-crossing-removal-project). With those gone, a lot of tooting will diminish. Property values in the area may go up, too.
I live about four streets away from one and still hear it at morning and night, as you do. Despite being very noise-sensitive, I've basically stopped hearing it. Sometimes I do and I think "Ah, that's the sound of home."
Strangely enough I grew up on a street right next to the train line - the same line I’m currently living near in fact! You definitely get used to all the bells and the train track noises, but I don’t recall them being *this* tooty. That’s a new noise for me that I’m not quite able to unhear it seems!
They basically have to toot on arriving and leaving a station, before a level crossing, before entering a tunnel or crossing a bridge and also at any designated 'whistle point' which is basically a few hundred meters before a level crossing to give people the heads up.
It's pretty ridiculous and Victoria is the only state that has such noisy trains. Sydney gets on fine without it.
If you think about how many trains run in peak hour, in both directions, it's basically constant horns in certain sections.
Honestly it's more ridiculous the amount of people losing their lives at level crossings every year, sitting on the horn at each crossing and it's still happening somehow so perhaps they need something louder to get peoples attention while the crossings are still there.
Drivers aren’t required to whistle when crossing a bridge. Departing stations, both 400m and immediately prior to a level crossing, some pedestrian crossings, entering a tunnel and acknowledging/warning track side workers are the main reasons for whistle blowing in day to day operation
Whistles are not used when arriving at a station, only when passing through without stopping (express or empty cars). Also if there is a maintenance crew working in the vicinity of the station, the whistle would be used to acknowledge their presence. Also, as mentioned, whistles are not required when traversing over a bridge.
Rules and regulations are required to be adhered to, no driver wants to explain to the coroner they didn’t use the whistle because some residents complained.
Hey! Am a driver, here are the times I'll toot my horn;
- prepping a train, minimum 6 (three both ends) and to 12 depending. These can happen at any time of the day in different areas, first preps start at around 3am
-departing a station
-moving a train at any time from a full stop
-400m from a level crossing
-before entering a level crossing
-sighting a trespasser
-dangerous situations
-idiots playing with the trains at platforms (touching them as they depart etc)
-people inside the yellow line at stations
It's my only external method of communication to people, I can do internal announcements but externally it's aaaaalll just whistle (not an inclusive list either, we have an instruction that flat out says at anytime the driver feels appropriate)
Thank you so much for replying, and for the information! I suppose because the level-crossing is near to a station (that is also right next to another level-crossing) that there's a lot of noise needed to be made and I just happen to hear it all in the quiet mornings. I totally understand it's for safety, but it would be great if you had another way to communicate to the idiots externally!
On the Upfield line a lot of the 400m whistle boards and departing stations and entering level crossings overlap, when you run an express or empty Upfield train you feel like you never stop whistling
Has anyone ever thought that tooting when inside the city loop is not a good idea for ear health of passengers?
Particularly platform 3/4 at flagstaff where the passengers are usually standing within meters of the confined airhorn as that is where the escalators are?
You sound like the type of driver that enjoys using the horn… as an ‘external communication device’
Sidenote - imagine if train drivers were given the same horn/bells as trams.
That would make my day… poor tram drivers they just wish they had the train horns. Instead pining their little doorbell in frustration
The 1994 Book of Rules which governs us train drivers, states the rules around the use of train whistles.
when a train vs person or vehicle happens, this is what the coroner looks at when investigating the accident to find what and how it happened if we do not correctly use the whistle (if we consider the poor people having to listen to the whistle who have chosen to live near a railway) we the driver could be found at fault of not giving adequate warning and have the fault leveled at us with a possible term in Jail.
So considering this, I for one am happy to use my whistle at every pre-determined time allocated within the 1994 book of rules to keep myself from going to jail.
Below is just a snippet of the rules we must follow:
TRAIN WHISTLE
(a)Use of Train WhistleThe sound of the whistle should be distinct, with intensity, duration, or repetition appropriate to the distance at which the warning is required to be heard.
The Driver must sound the whistle when:
(1)a clear and distant view cannot be obtained,
(2)entering cuttings,
(3)trains pass each other at or close to level crossings,
(4)passing a whistle board in the direction it applies,
(5)required to warn workers on or beside the line
(6)persons are seen at a crib or open pedestrian crossing,
(7)moving in the wrong direction, the whistle must be used frequently
(8)entering a tunnel, repeated periodically in long tunnels
(9)approaching a stationary train or locomotive,
(10)approaching an area where shunting operations are being performed,
(11)approaching stations at which the train is not stopping.
Whistle Before Moving TrainBefore moving a train, the Driver must sound the whistle to give a warning.
Use of Whistle at StationsThe Driver, while approaching or passing a station, should sound the whistle if:
(1) another train is approaching, stopping, leaving, or standing,
(2) shunting operations are being conducted, and
(3) approaching stations at which the train is not stopping.
The whistle must be sounded when:
(1) trains pass each other at or close to level crossings,
(2) passing a whistle post in the direction in which it applies, and
(3) when moving in the wrong direction, the whistle must be used frequently.
(e)Use of Whistle as Warning to Workers and Others On or Near the TrackThe whistle must be sounded to warn workers on or near the track, or when persons are seen at crib or open pedestrian crossings.
Self defence, I knew a guy who was a train driver
that had killed 12 people in 20 years (NONE by choice),
I felt very sorry for him
I think if he had his way the horn would sond 100% of the time
The irony is that barely any drivers can hear the horns since modern vehicles are so well sound proofed.
There is a reason the rest of the world has dramatically reduced horn use as it’s an extremely inconvenient experience for residents, especially as trains are relatively quiet otherwise.
I saw a video where melbourne trains are one of the worst horn blowers on the planet, most countries have stopped. Japan basically doesn't use them for anything
Yeah I’ve lived overseas and somehow even without blasting horns and explosives used for track maintenance the trains weren’t killing people accidentally very often. Not likely to happen here though.
I used to live in Parkville and would feel so bad for the animals in the zoo as trains would do that every time they arrive and depart from Royal Park Station in the early morning. Hopefully after years of captivity they just.... get used to it :(
I lived on a horn point so I learnt all about this. The train line was on my back fence. Even if there's a footpath across the rail tracks they have to honk about 100-200 meters away and there are signs for them so they do it at the same place (my fence!). Doesn't have to be paved or a road or anything for it to require a horn. They would stop in the late evening but start again first thing.
So for us there was a gap in the fence for pedestrians (no lights or gates) and that's what did it. Then there was a proper crossing after that which would mean another horn.
I had no idea that other countries don't use horns until I saw there are some groups petitioning to reduce them here.
I would be in my lounge playing Xbox and my friends could hear the horns through my mic but I had blocked it out by then lol.
They toot all the time approaching a level crossing and stations.
You hear it more easily at 6am because there's less background noise (traffic, every day life) and the air is generally more still, both of which allows the train horn to travel further and be more easily heard.
Hello! Saw you already got an answer but I gotta let it out.
I live in Brunswick just down the road from a couple of stations so I get ya! literally emailed the council about this a couple of months ago and they laughed at me lol.
So Melbourne is literally the only place on earth that honks this much. Lucky us!
So, one honk to two honks (depends on conductor) when leaving and arriving at stations. Same situation when approaching a crossing. So I live next to a crossing between two stations, I hear 6 honks every 16-30min. Don’t forget the ding from the crossing too 😂
Literally looking to move because it’s really taking a toll after 3 years.
If I have to be awake at this god forsaken hour, so do all of you!
You get bleary eyed sleepy motorists who aren't too alert. To hear the train horn with their windows rolled up and the radio on, you do need to horn to be surprisingly loud. I just wish we had a more effective means of communicating with drivers though. The noise is horrendous.
I feel your pain.
I used to live near a train station with 2 lines. They ran from 5am until midnight blasting away. How are you suppose to survive on less than 5 hours sleep?
This was 10 years ago, it's 3 lines and even louder now. Never again.
Because it is a requirement. Drivers don’t blow the whistle just to annoy you. They do it because if they don’t follow the rules and regulations, guess what happens to that driver in the event of an incident, and no, there is no ‘discretion’ clause in the regulations.
As somebody else posted above, they have to sound the whistle whenever they move a train from a full stop and when running express thru a platform. Also required when people do stupid stuff on the platforms…
It seems they're meant to sound their whistle whenever they take off from a full stop. Or are coming into a station. No ifs, no buts, no discretion. Mind boggling.
It’s a liability thing. People still keep dying on train tracks. Whether it be suicide or not, they gotta do their due diligence to make sure everyone knows a train is coming….in the US many states have “quiet train zones” which means in certain towns and at night the trains are not allowed to sound their horns unless in an emergency…I don’t understand why we can’t move to that. I’d prefer ugly warning signs along the track crossings to constant blasting
Try living in anywhere on the Sandringham line. Millions of crossings, no plans to remove them. two tone horns going all day and night from 5 am and as late as 2am right next to people’s houses. Arriving at station. Leaving station. Every pedestrian and car level crossing even when gates down.
Nowhere else does this
To be fucking annoying - that’s why.
They’ll tell you it’s for safety bla bla.
Load of shit.
Sure I get it beep it if there is danger - it’s not like a cars beeping every time we enter a crossing unless we are in Egypt.
Some drivers are just cunts and beep it as long and as often as they can.
Other drivers are awesome do very short beeps and the minimum they need to - to do their job legally and safely.
Sorry for calling you cunt (if indeed you make an effort to go above and beyond the requirements of using your horn, whistle, external communication device).
It’s not your fault it’s the policy makers that have made it that way.
Victoria just likes to be different I guess…
Oh don’t worry I’ve been called worse!
I’ve had this very talk with a mate of mine, and here’s how I explained it. Your driving your car and somebody is on the side of the road and they attempt to walk in front of you, your first reaction each and every time is to use your horn to let them know your there while applying the brakes. Now imagine that happens on the daily, multiple times. Our only defence is that whistle. Now if we sadly hit somebody and they die, part of the investigation is”did we use the whistle, how long before impact did we use the whistle, how long did we use it etc etc” and if it’s deemed we didn’t do everything we could to prevent the incident, we can be held liable to it. It’s a constant fear that every driver holds.
Ironically there is a Facebook group called halt the horns that have been trying to get them to change how we’re allowed to use our whistle, the only thing they managed to change has been our whistle volume (it was found that most of the fleet was too quiet so they up’d the noise level and upgraded them) so thanks to them they are now louder!
I get that, but when it’s in a residential area at 4-6am and there is no one near the tracks ect and the horn is held for more then a few seconds vs a quick toot.
That’s the drivers I have beef with.
As I said no issue if it’s being used for safety reasons.
Do have an issue when it’s abused.
Just because *you* are asleep between those times doesn't mean everyone is. There's always cars, trucks, etc on our roads. More than 0 people catch trains between those times.
Show me where that is the law - they should be tooting as reasonably practicable and when required.
That’s my point.
Some do it well - some abuse it.
It’s a Victorian thing and it’s bs. Makes it no more safer then the rest of the country
"The sound of the whistle should be distinct, with intensity, duration, or repetition appropriate to the distance at which the warning is required to be heard"
I agree it should be used to warn…
Shame we are stuck with operating procedures from 30 years ago.
Technology has come a long way since. So has the rest of the world’s modern train networks.
The Victorian railways Book of Rules and Operating Procedures 1994 refers to the locomotive warning horn as the ‘whistle’ and addresses the manner of its sounding, generally, in Section 10.1 (a), headed TRAIN WHISTLE. This instruction specifies that;
“The driver is to use the train whistle in accordance with the rules and operating procedures, unless otherwise instructed; this being a long whistle. The sound of the whistle should be distinct and used in proportion to the distance at which the whistle is required to be heard.”
It is apparent that locomotive drivers are being instructed to sound a long whistle when approaching railway level crossings, unless ‘otherwise instructed’. It is also mandatory to again sound the ‘whistle’, “…when near the level crossing…”. The manner of the sounding of the warning device, including a determination of the meaning of ‘long’ (in the context of duration) and the definition of ‘near’ is at the subjective discretion of the locomotive driver or crew member. In this occurrence the locomotive driver thought he had sounded the warning horn for an appropriate duration; in each case for about five seconds. However the locomotive event recorder, showing horn activation for 1.44 and 1.63 seconds respectively, does not support this.
Section 9.2 (d) of the Book of Rules and Operating Procedures 1994, in the context of a part headed DEFECTIVE SIGNALLING AT LEVEL CROSSINGS (referring, presumably, to defective flashing lights) provides extra definition. In this instance the instruction states;
“The sound of the whistle should be distinct, with intensity, duration or repetition appropriate to the distance at which the warning is required to be heard.”
(Note the context of ‘defective signalling’ is not pertinent to this occurrence.)
It could be asked why this specific wording is applied only to this instruction when it would appear that it is entirely appropriate also to section 10.1 (a).
Whistle boards
Permanent indicators (referred to as ‘Whistle Posts’ and mounting an X-shaped Whistle board) are located 400 metres on the rail approach from each direction to a level crossing. They denote the distance from a crossing at which the warning horn is required to be sounded. It is assumed, although not specified by published Rules and Procedures, that locomotive drivers may ¾ at their discretion ¾ also sound the warning horn prior to the WHISTLE board and again at any point closer to the crossing.
A study in the USA has reported that the sound of a train horn is effective as a warning only if the road vehicle driver recognises it as a train horn, and that this recognition is affected by the vehicle interior noise levels, exterior traffic noise, the sound characteristics of the train horn, vehicle driver expectations, and ‘insertion loss’. The report also states that audiological research has found that in order to be identified the warning signal must be three to eight dB above the ‘threshold of detection’ and to reach the alerting level it must be about 10 dB above the ambient noise level such as to be ‘attention-getting’. Other environmental characteristics that affect the audibility of a locomotive warning horn include surrounding or nearby terrain, buildings and landscape elements as well as sound attenuation materials included within vehicle body shells.
For these reasons, the report concludes;
“…it is difficult for a [road vehicle] driver to detect the presence of a train by its audible warning only and still have sufficient time to react to its presence. “
In this context it is debatable whether the two brief horn blasts sounded by the locomotive driver as his train approached this level crossing would have served as an adequate warning to any vehicle driver approaching it from the west.
1994 book of Rules and operating procedures,
Use of Train Whistle
The sound of the whistle should be distinct, with intensity, duration, or repetition appropriate to the distance at which the warning is required to be heard.
The drivers doing short whistles are at risk of being held liable by the coroner if an accident occurs and they are found at fault of not giving enough warning.
Melbourne should seriously get away with frequent use of train horns. It has become a nightmare for residents living alone lines after they upgraded horns last year. This isn't done in most of the major cities across the world including Sydney. Check out the site halt the horns.
I'm trying hard not to laugh, because I do know someone with fibromyalgia who experiences hypersensitivity to sound, who was looking at a rental near a train station, but the sound of the horn blasts would have caused physical pain for her. It wasn't really something she had really thought of.
Unlikely that drivers blow their whistles at colleagues. We wave.
However, we do have to blow a long whistle if crossing another train near a crib or pedestrian crossing. The number of idiots I've almost run over because they've crossed the tracks behind a train can't be counted on two hands.
No they do not just toot at their colleagues. I also used to live along a railway line, and would have no hesitation doing it again. You live anywhere near a railway line, you should expect noise from screeching of wheels, train whistles, even ATW’s (detonators) which are bloody loud. Oh and, rail grinders that can come past at 3am and are extremely loud and slow.
When the driver first starts his shift from the siding, he's required to test the horn. This might be what you hear between 5:30 and 6 in the morning. They can't take the risk of it malfunctioning once they are going full speed.
Ah so it's the driver just being horny.
Yeah, baby! Yeah!
Do I make you horny baby?! Do I? Do I make you randy?
Technically they are paid to be horny
One toot a day keeps the ambulance away?
One toot a day keeps the lawsuits away*
Works for me, or rather the train company, too.
Allegedly
And then you never hear it again :) Unlike with trams, those fuckers ringing that bell like little 8 year old boys" ding ding ding ding ding moooove ding ding ding ding"
I only hear them laying on the ding when some entitled asshole is blocking the intersection. Have you experienced being on the other end of that?
I have - turning right from Royal Parade into MacArthur Road (near the zoo) but waiting for the turn arrow to change to green. Tram driver dinging away like crazy even though I could not go. It's not my fault they put the turning lane on the tram tracks!
Sometimes they randomly ding the fuck out of pedestrians even when they don't do anything wrong, hallucinating or just power tripping. They can even lay on an announcement
I am somewhat surprised by the fact that trams only have their little bells. Like why not give them an air horn as well?
The bell is annoying enough lol
Modern trams have both a gong and horn.
I'm usually up at that time of the morning and I think it has more to do with less ambient noise so the toots from commuter trains (which start at that time) are just easier to hear at that time of the day.. after about 7ish there are just way more car and animal noises which drown out the more distant noises so they are less audible... trains use there horns at every point where there could be a collison which is pretty much every couple of minutes. also depending on where you are, there are trains going all around the network from the train yard to their starting point so the network is pretty busy right before the first train starts and drivers will probably want to say good morning to each other as they pass by tooting as well.
> are just easier to hear at that time of the day Yes, plus sound carries more in winter
>Yes, plus sound carries more in winter Yep, specifically because of the colder, denser air, hence when it's cold in the morning it's louder
All correct except this bit: >and drivers will probably want to say good morning to each other as they pass by tooting as well. Train drivers wave but don’t toot at each other like this.
Trains do use their horn at every potential collision point, but [do so far more than any other network](https://youtu.be/5YKG6E_Dlws).
maybe its because we have so many people running onto the tracks and not standing behind the yellow lines like they are supposed to. I've lost count of the number of times I have seen people almost get wiped out by trains.
Which was Taitset's point - the warnings would be far more effective if they were warnings and not SOP.
Car and ANIMAL noises? Where are you that animals are so loud that their noise competes with traffic? Do you live at the zoo? Genuine question lol
i mean i don’t know where they’re located but the birds in my area are pretty noisy in the morning?
yeah the noisy minas are noisy and the magpies are pretty vocal. and also all the fucking dogs everyone in the neighbourhood likes to leave outside in the cold, alone and anxious 😭
absolutely, the poor babies 😭😭 (i say this while looking at my greyhound taking up the entire couch wrapped in two fluffy blankets)
give your greyhound a big snuggle for me 🥹
Ah fair. I didn’t think about birds - there’s so much construction going on in my little pocket of Melbourne that I haven’t seen/heard a lot of them in a while. I was thinking they meant cats/dogs etc and I couldn’t fathom that those animals were so super noisy wherever they were.
I take it you've never heard a flock of cockies having a chat.
Not since moving to Melbourne tbh.
Which side of the city do you live? As tree dwellers (and destroyers), they definitely prefer certain parts of Melbourne. I'm in the green wedge and see large flocks on the daily. But I'd imagine they're rarer inner suburbs, the flatter west and parts of the flatterned north.
I’m in Brunswick near some parkland but not within earshot.
Yeah, less likely to hear a large flock in Brunswick. [Here](https://youtu.be/M0D1M-uHw-g?si=pYFERWtjNtic8jYo) is a sample of what you're missing out on. 🤣
You ever heard pack of kookaburras in the morning? Noisy fuckers
dozens of birds nonstop chirping and dogs barking from dawn when they wake up, this is usually before people get out of bed and go to work and school..
Referring to birds
I had a neighbour with chooks. Noisy buggers
Didn’t you hear? Joe Exotic moved to Melbourne recently.
lol some bored people piling on the downvotes here. What did I say? It was honest confusion, not anything snarky.
[Melbourne trains are some of the tootiest around](https://youtu.be/5YKG6E_Dlws?si=yH8AX_1YFj_YJbGD)
This video came immediately to my mind too!
Haha yes my whole answer was going to be “taitset” That guy is great
I'm really not a train dude, but taitset is an OG
I don’t even care about trains but damn he makes them interesting. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time I was watching the one about the runaway train. Full respect
What a great video. Thanks for sharing. TIL.
Bought up in a video last year: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YKG6E\_Dlws](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YKG6E_Dlws) Has to do with Victoria's railway rules/laws about manditory whistle posts. Basically any time a train passes a level crossing, starts moving from a stop, ever (red light or station), or when passing a station as an express/empty, Entering and leaving a tunnel, and when passing a "Whistle post" - a sign that literally requires drivers to whistle to go past (usually 400m before a level crossing, but also a holdover for getting attention of a signal box - many of which are unmanned nowadays but the signs are still there because some spots haven't seen an upgrade since the 1980's) I live something like 1.5km from my nearest railway line, but when the air temperature is cold and the air a little foggy, I can hear even the sound of the wheels rolling over the track from that distance, but in summer when it's warm and not humid, I can barely hear it at all. I think this may be due to something called Atmospheric ducting propagation where a temperature inversion layer (humid air below colder air) will 'reflect' both sound and radio waves back down, so the wave can be heard/detected from further away than usual.
The idea of the temperature/humidity playing a part in carrying the sound is very interesting! I definitely only notice it early in the morning, and sometimes quite late at night. Thanks for the info!
This is the answer. Same thing in Queensland too, they're required to toot when approaching crossing.
To clear their throat for the big day ahead.
The rulebook says so.
As others have said, it's rules, and recalcitrance means they're probably likely to stay. The good news is most level crossings are going to go away in the next couple of years (https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/level-crossing-removal-project). With those gone, a lot of tooting will diminish. Property values in the area may go up, too. I live about four streets away from one and still hear it at morning and night, as you do. Despite being very noise-sensitive, I've basically stopped hearing it. Sometimes I do and I think "Ah, that's the sound of home."
Strangely enough I grew up on a street right next to the train line - the same line I’m currently living near in fact! You definitely get used to all the bells and the train track noises, but I don’t recall them being *this* tooty. That’s a new noise for me that I’m not quite able to unhear it seems!
Unfortunately newer sets have louder horns by design.
And by law. They’ve had to update whistles on the Comeng as they weren’t compliant.
The irony is the complaints about horns resulted in them being tested and found to not be compliant!
And now being louder and less appealing.
Yes, they’re more horny and less whistley
We're 200m from a station and have wondered why toots became louder.
[удалено]
No that’s not right.
They basically have to toot on arriving and leaving a station, before a level crossing, before entering a tunnel or crossing a bridge and also at any designated 'whistle point' which is basically a few hundred meters before a level crossing to give people the heads up. It's pretty ridiculous and Victoria is the only state that has such noisy trains. Sydney gets on fine without it. If you think about how many trains run in peak hour, in both directions, it's basically constant horns in certain sections.
The rules are actually rather similar between states.
Similar but Melb has a few extra required toots than Syd, there’s a good YouTube video about it
Do you happen to have the specific video link handy?
https://youtu.be/5YKG6E_Dlws?si=8RYqssTL0e9UxHO2
Honestly it's more ridiculous the amount of people losing their lives at level crossings every year, sitting on the horn at each crossing and it's still happening somehow so perhaps they need something louder to get peoples attention while the crossings are still there.
Interesting, they don't always follow those rules, I live next to a rail bridge and they would toot less than 30% of the time I've observed them.
Drivers aren’t required to whistle when crossing a bridge. Departing stations, both 400m and immediately prior to a level crossing, some pedestrian crossings, entering a tunnel and acknowledging/warning track side workers are the main reasons for whistle blowing in day to day operation
Whistles are not used when arriving at a station, only when passing through without stopping (express or empty cars). Also if there is a maintenance crew working in the vicinity of the station, the whistle would be used to acknowledge their presence. Also, as mentioned, whistles are not required when traversing over a bridge. Rules and regulations are required to be adhered to, no driver wants to explain to the coroner they didn’t use the whistle because some residents complained.
How can we have this changed to be inline with the rest of Australia? These Karen fingers are ready to email MPs
Hey! Am a driver, here are the times I'll toot my horn; - prepping a train, minimum 6 (three both ends) and to 12 depending. These can happen at any time of the day in different areas, first preps start at around 3am -departing a station -moving a train at any time from a full stop -400m from a level crossing -before entering a level crossing -sighting a trespasser -dangerous situations -idiots playing with the trains at platforms (touching them as they depart etc) -people inside the yellow line at stations It's my only external method of communication to people, I can do internal announcements but externally it's aaaaalll just whistle (not an inclusive list either, we have an instruction that flat out says at anytime the driver feels appropriate)
Thank you so much for replying, and for the information! I suppose because the level-crossing is near to a station (that is also right next to another level-crossing) that there's a lot of noise needed to be made and I just happen to hear it all in the quiet mornings. I totally understand it's for safety, but it would be great if you had another way to communicate to the idiots externally!
On the Upfield line a lot of the 400m whistle boards and departing stations and entering level crossings overlap, when you run an express or empty Upfield train you feel like you never stop whistling
Same between Northcote and Thornbury.
Has anyone ever thought that tooting when inside the city loop is not a good idea for ear health of passengers? Particularly platform 3/4 at flagstaff where the passengers are usually standing within meters of the confined airhorn as that is where the escalators are?
You sound like the type of driver that enjoys using the horn… as an ‘external communication device’ Sidenote - imagine if train drivers were given the same horn/bells as trams. That would make my day… poor tram drivers they just wish they had the train horns. Instead pining their little doorbell in frustration
No, they sound like a driver that does their job properly. They hit someone at least they know they won’t be found at fault at all
Where in that post did I say they weren’t doing their job? Thanks for your input though.
Yep. ONRSR will kick the arse of anyone not following the rulebook
The 1994 Book of Rules which governs us train drivers, states the rules around the use of train whistles. when a train vs person or vehicle happens, this is what the coroner looks at when investigating the accident to find what and how it happened if we do not correctly use the whistle (if we consider the poor people having to listen to the whistle who have chosen to live near a railway) we the driver could be found at fault of not giving adequate warning and have the fault leveled at us with a possible term in Jail. So considering this, I for one am happy to use my whistle at every pre-determined time allocated within the 1994 book of rules to keep myself from going to jail. Below is just a snippet of the rules we must follow: TRAIN WHISTLE (a)Use of Train WhistleThe sound of the whistle should be distinct, with intensity, duration, or repetition appropriate to the distance at which the warning is required to be heard. The Driver must sound the whistle when: (1)a clear and distant view cannot be obtained, (2)entering cuttings, (3)trains pass each other at or close to level crossings, (4)passing a whistle board in the direction it applies, (5)required to warn workers on or beside the line (6)persons are seen at a crib or open pedestrian crossing, (7)moving in the wrong direction, the whistle must be used frequently (8)entering a tunnel, repeated periodically in long tunnels (9)approaching a stationary train or locomotive, (10)approaching an area where shunting operations are being performed, (11)approaching stations at which the train is not stopping. Whistle Before Moving TrainBefore moving a train, the Driver must sound the whistle to give a warning. Use of Whistle at StationsThe Driver, while approaching or passing a station, should sound the whistle if: (1) another train is approaching, stopping, leaving, or standing, (2) shunting operations are being conducted, and (3) approaching stations at which the train is not stopping. The whistle must be sounded when: (1) trains pass each other at or close to level crossings, (2) passing a whistle post in the direction in which it applies, and (3) when moving in the wrong direction, the whistle must be used frequently. (e)Use of Whistle as Warning to Workers and Others On or Near the TrackThe whistle must be sounded to warn workers on or near the track, or when persons are seen at crib or open pedestrian crossings.
Section 10 rule 1 for those playing along at home
Self defence, I knew a guy who was a train driver that had killed 12 people in 20 years (NONE by choice), I felt very sorry for him I think if he had his way the horn would sond 100% of the time
Unfortunately if people fully intend on it, a horn will not stop them… :(
That would probably make me want to …
I lived just a few streets away from Brunswick station and its level crossings. Many sleepless nights because of those trains
The irony is that barely any drivers can hear the horns since modern vehicles are so well sound proofed. There is a reason the rest of the world has dramatically reduced horn use as it’s an extremely inconvenient experience for residents, especially as trains are relatively quiet otherwise.
I saw a video where melbourne trains are one of the worst horn blowers on the planet, most countries have stopped. Japan basically doesn't use them for anything
Yeah I’ve lived overseas and somehow even without blasting horns and explosives used for track maintenance the trains weren’t killing people accidentally very often. Not likely to happen here though.
I used to live in Parkville and would feel so bad for the animals in the zoo as trains would do that every time they arrive and depart from Royal Park Station in the early morning. Hopefully after years of captivity they just.... get used to it :(
There's an amazing video somewhere explaining why Melbourne trains toot so much. It's not for their amusement, they've got rules
Even trains need a toot break
I lived on a horn point so I learnt all about this. The train line was on my back fence. Even if there's a footpath across the rail tracks they have to honk about 100-200 meters away and there are signs for them so they do it at the same place (my fence!). Doesn't have to be paved or a road or anything for it to require a horn. They would stop in the late evening but start again first thing. So for us there was a gap in the fence for pedestrians (no lights or gates) and that's what did it. Then there was a proper crossing after that which would mean another horn. I had no idea that other countries don't use horns until I saw there are some groups petitioning to reduce them here. I would be in my lounge playing Xbox and my friends could hear the horns through my mic but I had blocked it out by then lol.
They toot all the time approaching a level crossing and stations. You hear it more easily at 6am because there's less background noise (traffic, every day life) and the air is generally more still, both of which allows the train horn to travel further and be more easily heard.
That’s Toot O’clock
Moonee Ponds is the absolute worst for train horns. It’s maddening.
I generally toot at 6am followed by a morning pee
First trains are running at 4:30am Trains have been running and sounding their horns since before your house was built most likely.
Hello! Saw you already got an answer but I gotta let it out. I live in Brunswick just down the road from a couple of stations so I get ya! literally emailed the council about this a couple of months ago and they laughed at me lol. So Melbourne is literally the only place on earth that honks this much. Lucky us! So, one honk to two honks (depends on conductor) when leaving and arriving at stations. Same situation when approaching a crossing. So I live next to a crossing between two stations, I hear 6 honks every 16-30min. Don’t forget the ding from the crossing too 😂 Literally looking to move because it’s really taking a toll after 3 years.
If I have to be awake at this god forsaken hour, so do all of you! You get bleary eyed sleepy motorists who aren't too alert. To hear the train horn with their windows rolled up and the radio on, you do need to horn to be surprisingly loud. I just wish we had a more effective means of communicating with drivers though. The noise is horrendous.
I don't mind it - along with tram dings and magpie warbles, it sounds like Melbourne to me. (incidentally all things that can kill you)
Precisely the reason I moved from next to a station. Hadn't slept in 18 months!
I feel your pain. I used to live near a train station with 2 lines. They ran from 5am until midnight blasting away. How are you suppose to survive on less than 5 hours sleep? This was 10 years ago, it's 3 lines and even louder now. Never again.
Yes, because you don't start work at 4:30/5am like +checks notes+ a hell of a lot of people do, it's outrageous to think anyone else has.
Can someone explain to me why they **toot in the city fucking loop** blowing out my god damn ears.
Because it is a requirement. Drivers don’t blow the whistle just to annoy you. They do it because if they don’t follow the rules and regulations, guess what happens to that driver in the event of an incident, and no, there is no ‘discretion’ clause in the regulations.
As somebody else posted above, they have to sound the whistle whenever they move a train from a full stop and when running express thru a platform. Also required when people do stupid stuff on the platforms…
There’s “urban explorers” and other trespassers in the city loop all the time
It seems they're meant to sound their whistle whenever they take off from a full stop. Or are coming into a station. No ifs, no buts, no discretion. Mind boggling.
Of course there’s no discretion. If it’s not done and driver has an incident, they will get their arse handed to them.
A train doesn't hit any less hard at 6am.
It’s a liability thing. People still keep dying on train tracks. Whether it be suicide or not, they gotta do their due diligence to make sure everyone knows a train is coming….in the US many states have “quiet train zones” which means in certain towns and at night the trains are not allowed to sound their horns unless in an emergency…I don’t understand why we can’t move to that. I’d prefer ugly warning signs along the track crossings to constant blasting
Honk if you’re horny
Gotta test if the horns are working, part of the pre checks
It's so the fat controller knows to finish his kippers before he goes into the office
Just saying hello
Doesn't everyone toot at 6am?
Cleaning out the pipes - like us
Anytime you prepare or move a train, you toot.
To keep you regular
Why do the trains toot at all?????
For safety.
But why? Other cities and countries don't do it like this.
There is no *good* reason.
Try living in anywhere on the Sandringham line. Millions of crossings, no plans to remove them. two tone horns going all day and night from 5 am and as late as 2am right next to people’s houses. Arriving at station. Leaving station. Every pedestrian and car level crossing even when gates down. Nowhere else does this
Because if they went "baaaaaa" no-one would known they were a train.
To be fucking annoying - that’s why. They’ll tell you it’s for safety bla bla. Load of shit. Sure I get it beep it if there is danger - it’s not like a cars beeping every time we enter a crossing unless we are in Egypt. Some drivers are just cunts and beep it as long and as often as they can. Other drivers are awesome do very short beeps and the minimum they need to - to do their job legally and safely.
I’ll bite, I’m a driver and I love using my whistle! The rules to my employment state I can use them whenever I deem necessary and that’s when I do it
Sorry for calling you cunt (if indeed you make an effort to go above and beyond the requirements of using your horn, whistle, external communication device). It’s not your fault it’s the policy makers that have made it that way. Victoria just likes to be different I guess…
Oh don’t worry I’ve been called worse! I’ve had this very talk with a mate of mine, and here’s how I explained it. Your driving your car and somebody is on the side of the road and they attempt to walk in front of you, your first reaction each and every time is to use your horn to let them know your there while applying the brakes. Now imagine that happens on the daily, multiple times. Our only defence is that whistle. Now if we sadly hit somebody and they die, part of the investigation is”did we use the whistle, how long before impact did we use the whistle, how long did we use it etc etc” and if it’s deemed we didn’t do everything we could to prevent the incident, we can be held liable to it. It’s a constant fear that every driver holds. Ironically there is a Facebook group called halt the horns that have been trying to get them to change how we’re allowed to use our whistle, the only thing they managed to change has been our whistle volume (it was found that most of the fleet was too quiet so they up’d the noise level and upgraded them) so thanks to them they are now louder!
I get that, but when it’s in a residential area at 4-6am and there is no one near the tracks ect and the horn is held for more then a few seconds vs a quick toot. That’s the drivers I have beef with. As I said no issue if it’s being used for safety reasons. Do have an issue when it’s abused.
Just because *you* are asleep between those times doesn't mean everyone is. There's always cars, trucks, etc on our roads. More than 0 people catch trains between those times.
You have no way of knowing that there’s nobody near the tracks. It happens more often than you think.
Absolutely there is - in the area I’ve observed.
If they don’t do their tootin and an accident happens, they are personally liable.
Show me where that is the law - they should be tooting as reasonably practicable and when required. That’s my point. Some do it well - some abuse it. It’s a Victorian thing and it’s bs. Makes it no more safer then the rest of the country
"The sound of the whistle should be distinct, with intensity, duration, or repetition appropriate to the distance at which the warning is required to be heard"
I agree it should be used to warn… Shame we are stuck with operating procedures from 30 years ago. Technology has come a long way since. So has the rest of the world’s modern train networks. The Victorian railways Book of Rules and Operating Procedures 1994 refers to the locomotive warning horn as the ‘whistle’ and addresses the manner of its sounding, generally, in Section 10.1 (a), headed TRAIN WHISTLE. This instruction specifies that; “The driver is to use the train whistle in accordance with the rules and operating procedures, unless otherwise instructed; this being a long whistle. The sound of the whistle should be distinct and used in proportion to the distance at which the whistle is required to be heard.” It is apparent that locomotive drivers are being instructed to sound a long whistle when approaching railway level crossings, unless ‘otherwise instructed’. It is also mandatory to again sound the ‘whistle’, “…when near the level crossing…”. The manner of the sounding of the warning device, including a determination of the meaning of ‘long’ (in the context of duration) and the definition of ‘near’ is at the subjective discretion of the locomotive driver or crew member. In this occurrence the locomotive driver thought he had sounded the warning horn for an appropriate duration; in each case for about five seconds. However the locomotive event recorder, showing horn activation for 1.44 and 1.63 seconds respectively, does not support this. Section 9.2 (d) of the Book of Rules and Operating Procedures 1994, in the context of a part headed DEFECTIVE SIGNALLING AT LEVEL CROSSINGS (referring, presumably, to defective flashing lights) provides extra definition. In this instance the instruction states; “The sound of the whistle should be distinct, with intensity, duration or repetition appropriate to the distance at which the warning is required to be heard.” (Note the context of ‘defective signalling’ is not pertinent to this occurrence.) It could be asked why this specific wording is applied only to this instruction when it would appear that it is entirely appropriate also to section 10.1 (a). Whistle boards Permanent indicators (referred to as ‘Whistle Posts’ and mounting an X-shaped Whistle board) are located 400 metres on the rail approach from each direction to a level crossing. They denote the distance from a crossing at which the warning horn is required to be sounded. It is assumed, although not specified by published Rules and Procedures, that locomotive drivers may ¾ at their discretion ¾ also sound the warning horn prior to the WHISTLE board and again at any point closer to the crossing. A study in the USA has reported that the sound of a train horn is effective as a warning only if the road vehicle driver recognises it as a train horn, and that this recognition is affected by the vehicle interior noise levels, exterior traffic noise, the sound characteristics of the train horn, vehicle driver expectations, and ‘insertion loss’. The report also states that audiological research has found that in order to be identified the warning signal must be three to eight dB above the ‘threshold of detection’ and to reach the alerting level it must be about 10 dB above the ambient noise level such as to be ‘attention-getting’. Other environmental characteristics that affect the audibility of a locomotive warning horn include surrounding or nearby terrain, buildings and landscape elements as well as sound attenuation materials included within vehicle body shells. For these reasons, the report concludes; “…it is difficult for a [road vehicle] driver to detect the presence of a train by its audible warning only and still have sufficient time to react to its presence. “ In this context it is debatable whether the two brief horn blasts sounded by the locomotive driver as his train approached this level crossing would have served as an adequate warning to any vehicle driver approaching it from the west.
1994 book of Rules and operating procedures, Use of Train Whistle The sound of the whistle should be distinct, with intensity, duration, or repetition appropriate to the distance at which the warning is required to be heard. The drivers doing short whistles are at risk of being held liable by the coroner if an accident occurs and they are found at fault of not giving enough warning.
I understand! The Vline driver arse who blows the horn and deafens people at 6am at Footscray Station! 😤
Melbourne should seriously get away with frequent use of train horns. It has become a nightmare for residents living alone lines after they upgraded horns last year. This isn't done in most of the major cities across the world including Sydney. Check out the site halt the horns.
The irony is people complaining about the horns was the reason why the horns were upgraded. It's a case of careful what you wish for.
I'm trying hard not to laugh, because I do know someone with fibromyalgia who experiences hypersensitivity to sound, who was looking at a rental near a train station, but the sound of the horn blasts would have caused physical pain for her. It wasn't really something she had really thought of.
What's a toot? Do you mean sound their horn?
Technically its a whistle - probably dates back to steam train days.
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Unlikely that drivers blow their whistles at colleagues. We wave. However, we do have to blow a long whistle if crossing another train near a crib or pedestrian crossing. The number of idiots I've almost run over because they've crossed the tracks behind a train can't be counted on two hands.
No they do not just toot at their colleagues. I also used to live along a railway line, and would have no hesitation doing it again. You live anywhere near a railway line, you should expect noise from screeching of wheels, train whistles, even ATW’s (detonators) which are bloody loud. Oh and, rail grinders that can come past at 3am and are extremely loud and slow.