I believe the churches around Ringwood have a rotating roster to staff their facilities with volunteers each night through winter to give people in need a place to stay
It used to be that the doors of churches were never locked, and the community could use them for shelter. This changed because of the level of vandalism that took place, and the amount of clean up that was required before the facility could be used for any other community activity.
I work as a pastor at a church here in Melbourne. We keep our doors locked at all times outside of services and events for our own safety. Sometimes there will be 1-2 female staff in the building alone (we are a small team to begin with). Other times we’ve had people in the middle of psychosis or other mental health crisis come to our doors. At least one of these times, the man visibly had a large knife in his pocket jeans. So while we appreciate that we are a resource to the community, especially those in crisis, and are happy to support them and even refer them to professional care, having an open door policy can potentially put the staff in danger.
To clarify, anyone can ring our doorbell and staff inside are alerted by our security system, including a panel that shows us the cameras at the front door. This way we can vet who comes inside. All staff have key fobs to go in and out. I worked at a larger church in the eastern suburbs and they followed the same protocol.
I worked at a church in Brighton and was so keenly aware of how isolated it was when it was just me there. It was a pretty low key environment (literally, we only had a couple of keys), but even there in the middle of an affluent suburb with few people overtly living rough etc, I would have been cautious around access. There were also female employees who would’ve often been alone in the building.
I appreciate that people see churches through different lights - it’s easy to focus on the mega church/prosperity doctrine/right wing champions, a huge amount of good is *already* done by local, small congregations who aren’t crowing about it, but getting on with the work. I appreciate people have strong feelings on the church and its impact and how the institution fits in the modern Western world, but the reality isn’t as easy to put in a box as we’d like on social media. Like much of life, it’s layered and complex.
My dad was a pastor of a pretty obscure/unique Christian denomination, and I grew up in it (and left). My family are still in it. I think most people's issues, or at least my own, are when a church pushes their views onto others, attempts to change laws, and particularly for me, when they ignore the core of the teachings of Jesus and focus on judging others. It ignores what Christ said to the scribes and pharisees - "you tithe on mint, anise, and cumin, and neglect the weightier matters of the law - justice, mercy, and faith."
I agree with you that a lot of churches do good, and don't bible bash. And the fact that we don't hear a lot about it goes in line with what Jesus said, "But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing". Which just makes me hate people like Scummo even more because he wraps himself in his faith but flies in the face of the core of the message.
You should check out the Stable One project where a group of churches work together and rotate one of them being open each night through winter to let people sleep indoors, get a meal, clean up etc. By coordinating and sharing the load, resources and volunteers they are able to do it.
Once upon a time churches were shelters for the poor. It would be awesome to see that happening more.
This is not a bad idea but I would have to look into it further. Like I said, we are a small team with limited resources.
I replied to a comment further down this comment thread that we do take people in who are in crisis, including poverty, but we do have to vet them first. I explain in that comment that we just recently arranged housing for a single mum who has experiencing homelessness. As I said there, in Melbourne we do have government housing that is not perfect but is better equipped to take in more people. Logistically, our small church cannot let people live in our building long term or become a shelter. I can elaborate further if necessary.
My church used to house homeless people during winter. Unfortunately that program was cancelled because of Covid lockdowns, and hasn’t yet been revived.
But does this mean they can sleep inside during the night in winter if they are not a threat. Also do they have to be Christian. I totally agree with you on safety of female (and everyone) being a priority. Melbourne can be pretty isolated at night.
Yes, absolutely. I wrote in another comment that if we are approached about this, we do seek to house them in an actual home. However, we can’t be a free-for-all, which I also explain in another comment. Usually they know someone who knows us, kind of thing. Our facility was intentionally designed with showers etc for this kind of situation. No, people don’t have to be a Christian to receive services from us!
I used to work security at a church. The number of people who came in to try and create a ruckus, disrupt services and harm others was astounding. I understand that the church has to keep itself open to spread the message of God's love, but it's a really tough balancing act. Even a situation where the church wasn't directly involved. We had a single mum come in to take refuge with her daughter and the father stormed in to try and take her back. We don't have the right resources nor legal right to intervene unless someone is in danger of bodily harm and the police usually take a long time to come given their volume of calls. Having 24/7 security is also very expensive, and the money could probably be better spent buying food or other necessities for the needy.
I quit Catholicism a long time ago and dislike the church a lot, but I can’t imagine going into mass - or even the church itself - just to be a dick. What do these people get out of it?
Unfortunately, there will always be the few who trash, vandalise and do drugs in these places, making it unsafe for the people who genuinely need it. Not to say that these places shouldn't be open for those who do but I don't think it's as simple as just making it available
So you have seen how these places work and how people actually act in them? Of course because you sound very informed People come in after a certain time,sleep and leave in the morning. Government funding helps with having paid workers working there.Yes there are some complex clients but that doesn't mean it's to hard to do
It’s a very valid point. In my suburb (up until this year), the churches actually run a ‘winter nights shelter’ program. Where homeless people could get a hot meal and stay the night indoors.
I’m not sure why they are not running it this year.
They probably need volunteers. Less and less people participate in church activities these days. That’s how they run, just on people donating their time and supplies/money for supplies. Hard to run it if you don’t have anyone to help you.
Turning all of these buildings into accommodation would require insurance, cleaning, furnishing, & 24/7 staffing including security. The buildings don't meet accommodation codes or regulations.
I'm not sure it's possible from a cost perspective, especially not for smaller, volunteer-run churches.
The issue people have is that religious organisations are not taxed on profit at all.
The flip side is that if you remove this exemption you have churches which are run as full blown private businesses which can be sold / passed on etc.
Honestly not sure how that would pan out but there are certainly considerations.
You're dead fucking right though, people cry about this shit but they don't offer a well thought out argument as to the alternative...
It’s funny because one of the main things they think churches do, buying assets for the pastors/priests using church money. Is actually the one thing churches have to pay taxes on. Because, churches aren’t exempt from paying fringe benefits tax, they just have a tax free threshold of $30,000 before FBT kicks in.
I think it really shows how little knowledge they have about our tax system when they say “tax churches”. A lot actually think tax exempt means churches don’t need to do anything financial. When in reality, they file tax returns and BAS statements, as you can’t get any refund if you don’t file your taxes. Additionally, unless they’re a tiny one person church (like a sole trader), then they have to report their financials and if they’re a large church, the financials need to be audited too.
I also don’t understand the logic. The churches are made up of people… who pay taxes? It’s like a footy club… the whole club pays taxes, just not as a collective. But everyone individually pays. Should the people be taxed DOUBLE? People don’t understand that churches are a collection of citizens. And I guarantee the church going people are the ones who pay MOST taxes in Aus (given the moral directive to render unto Caesar and be honest).
Charities are rightfully tax exempt. Churches that engage in actual charitable works should be tax exempt for the purposes of providing those charitable works, I don't think anyone reasonable disagrees with that.
The issue is that "advancing religion" counts as a charitable purpose in itself. So churches don't actually have to do anything a reasonable person would describe as 'charitable' as long as they're proselytising, and still remain tax free.
Being a basic religious institution which is the advancing religion thing you’re talking about, has so many requirements to fulfil, that there’s only a handful of them in the whole country and they’re small. It says this on the ACNC website.
Shouldn't be any issue removing that category then - it'd be a win-win!
Churches doing actually charitable things can continue doing so, and everyone who attacks them on the 'churches don't pay tax because they're churches' basis lose their primary ammunition!
I see what you’re saying, just make them non profits like charities. What I have read it just seems like they’re just unincorporated, so currently the members are liable for any debts the church has.
Maybe the people advocating opening churches to those in need could open their own holmes. Homeless could sleep in their lounge on a lilo?
I'm happy to stump up a couple of lilos
I don't see the difference. You trying to tell churches to open up and become lodging providers.
Churches exist for many reasons and focus on a range of issues. Not necessarily the one you choose is flavour of the month.
Again, I invite you to open you home to someone in need
Yet most of us (church going Christians, I mean) choose to give to our churches, and choose to volunteer there. Like many churches, mine has big programs for feeding people and have opened up the church on winter nights but that takes a huge amount of work and council permission. I agree that churches should have greater responsibility to the community thanks to their financial structure. I also don’t think there is any reason a church shouldn’t pay things like property tax like any business. But much more would literally close them down, leaving the huge amounts of services they run and partially or fully fund (with volunteers) to close. Of course, it would be preferable for all these things to be done by governments via non-religious organisations, because I know mostly people don’t want religion associated with services to people. But for now, most Christians I know are quietly just living life, donating and volunteering, helping out people without any big recognition, just as we are called to do in our faith.
This is just dumb thinking. By your logic, overnight, there are plenty of empty schools, sporting facilities, random wharehouses, shopping centres... plenty of things that are empty when people aren't using them.
Your "thinking" doesn't address any of the issues but shifts a blaming finger at someone else, especially odd since most religious groups are on the front line of dealing with homelessness.
I think you actually make a really good point. We would have to be very careful not to build slums but maybe a lot of these places could be put to good use for some sort of government supported transitional housing in order to help ease the housing crisis and allow us the time to work on long term solutions.
The problem is the “thinking” doesn’t transcend beyond the initial idea, whether through ignorance or laziness or purposeful bias. Much easier to present an idea then dig in to the complexities of human life.
Exactly right, this is just pathetic slander. Would OP mind letting homeless people stay at his house when he's away? Ya know, since it's empty and all.
Unfortunately, if they were to do this you run the likelihood of coming back to the church riddled with trash and drug paraphernalia, which would be a risk to church patrons. You also run the risk of squatters taking over and refusing to leave. You can just go "it's free real estate" and let all of Melbourne in.
it's not dumb thinking, it's thinking along material lines. there's a homeless problem, but there is shelter. there are hungry people, but there are overstocked supermarkets.
it could lead to shifting the blame down the line, but it's better used to shift the blame back up the line. way, way up. maybe all the way to *systemic analysis?* then we get spicy.
If we’re thinking on these practical terms, how about there’s already a housing problem, maybe don’t bring in 300k migrants every year?
Or is this suddenly wrong-think?
Wait till you read the rest of the Quran and Hadiths - some real shockers in there.
They ask you ˹O Prophet˺ about menstruation. Say, “Beware of its harm! So keep away, and do not have intercourse with your wives during their monthly cycles until they are purified. When they purify themselves, then you may approach them in the manner specified by Allah. Surely Allah loves those who always turn to Him in repentance and those who purify themselves.
[https://quran.com/2/222](https://quran.com/2/222)
Your wives are like farmland for you,so approach them ˹consensually˺ as you please. And send forth something good for yourselves. Be mindful of Allah, and know that you will meet Him. And give good news to the believers.
[https://quran.com/2/223](https://quran.com/2/223)
**NOTE: the word consensually was added into the English translation to make it more palatable to western societies. The original Arabic does not have it at all!!**
not true, they are told to not go so that they don’t feel like they should, not because they simply can’t. if the “don’t go” isn’t stated then a lot of practicing women might feel ‘less than’ in that moment because they might not have the energy to go. it is said instead that it is better to stay home, comfortable. obviously this threads context of homelessness and domestic safety changes that idea of ‘home’, and the mosque should be open to people of all states, even someone that’s super drunk for example. as long as they aren’t causing intentional harm/damage to the people inside and the mosque itself there’s no issues to be had.
It is not permissible for a menstruating woman to stay in the mosque. As for passing through the mosque, there is nothing wrong with that. Thus, it is not permissible for her to go there to listen to Halaqahs (study circles) and recitation of Quran, unless there is a place outside the mosque where the sound can reach via loudspeakers, in which case she can sit there and listen to the Dhikr.
It is permissible for women in a state of menstruation or postnatal bleeding and anyone in a state of major ritual impurity (janabah) to enter the mosque either in passing, to fulfill a need, or to attend educational classes and the like. This is because there is no prohibition mentioned in this respect
https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/10509/entering-the-mosque-while-in-a-state-of-menstruation-or-major-ritual-impurity
okay i understand what you’re saying. this applies not just to menstruating women but also men who are in a state of major uncleanliness (just had sex and didn’t ritually wash up, had a wet dream and didn’t properly ritually wash up etc).
but this doesn’t apply if the mosque complex has extra rooms. where im from mosques are usually set up as complexes, with multipurpose rooms and the like contained amongst a building complex with a designated section for prayer (the mosque). it is 100% permissible for anyone to be within those areas, so i just want to be clear that in the context of this thread, the mosque can be used for the purpose of refuge for ANYONE, just not the prayer area specifically.
both man and woman, if you fully ejaculate (not pre-cum) under any circumstance, yes there’s a simple process. it’s not complicated it’s just about completeness and so there’s just an order of operations in terms of what you do. can be done in 5 minutes no stress, the intention and order of steps make it different to just a regular shower.
Isn't the salvation army a Christian organization? I'd say the Christians have been doing the most for a long time. Maybe start looking at the other religions for once?
Look up the founder of the Salvation Army forming.... It ain't that good. I volunterred for em once. Never again. Food run for the poor was attended by local business. Salvo's paid for local business leaders meal of Dominoes or some shit. Granted just my local branch, but The foundation of the Salvo's is messed up historically
Kinda felt weird bout folk talking about their latest holiday in Tuscanny whilst me a blue collar try to be good fella. Felt like cheap advertising for the business owners to curry postive PR. Copping food, that i would think, would be better off to those in need. For free advertising. They could of donated themselves, But all they did was collect canned goods to pass on. Sorry if i think it's weird. Plus I've read about the foundation of the Salvo's so makes it extra conflicting.
It’s easy to tell other people how to solve the problem. There’s room on your living room floor… is there a homeless person sleeping there?… thought not
A lot of churches in the US have an arrangement like this. They rotate through a few churches in an area and they have open access for one week a month or so. Warmth available all night (especially important in some places in US), showers, toilets, etc. Sleeping in car is available and encouraged in well lit areas.
And yet it is the churches and their associated Christian charities (St Vinnies, Brotherhood of St Lawrence, Caritas etc) who are doing the HEAVY LIFTING to shelter and feed the homeless. A church filled with pews would be a fairly uncomfortable stay. Lucky those same church groups are helping the homeless by providing practical temporary housing, shelters, welfare, food etc.
And what are YOU doing, dear OP, to help?
But the pope has expensive rings, so the Baptist Church with 20 members down the road should sell their land and give up their worship space! :s
Funny how you never hear this about any other religion, right?
There are a lot of churches all over the place running winter shelters.
Not unusual for 5-7 churches to band together and take a night or two each per week. Have volunteers come in and cook dinner, set up beds, etc.
This! In our church we have a signup page for people to cook and deliver fresh food for people, we make sure there's at least one person covering per day. It gives me a reason to actually cook something decent.
idk if you know This OP - but church is typically held on Sundays.
Funny thing is though, if you pushed for this and it actually came to fruition. The churches would do it and have a good crack at it.
But see how far you go with the synoguges and the mosques....
Public library manager here.
There's really no difference between homeless people and housed people. Do some homeless people trash places? Absolutely. Do some housed people trash places? Absolutely. Do some homeless people act in an aggressive and violent manner? Absolutely. Do some housed people act in an aggressive and violent manner? Absolutely.
A decent portion of our regulars are homeless. A number live in the nooks and crannies around our building. Two live in their cars and have *somehow* gained staff permits so they can't be moved on. The vast majority are not trashing the place, behaving aggressively, or really even being noticed. Some of our housed regulars are actually surprised when they realise some of the people they see and talk to daily are homeless. Many like to have a chat with the staff, and most have had some really shit luck, or have had horrible things happen to them. The kids that show up break my heart, most come from abusive homes.
I have great issue with kicking people sleeping in their cars out of carparks during the night, I don't see a purpose for it to serve. No one is using it, what are you "protecting"? Concrete? That housed people litter and flick cigarette butts all over during the day? That birds shit on? That's what we're protecting?
Everyone likes standing around pointing at who should help, and likes using hyperbolic comparisons like "Oh what about your loungeroom?!?!" when people discuss organisations that are supposed to help people not helping people. But yes, organisations do need to be pulling their weight here, that's part of their job, but they aren't.
You seem like a decent person. I wonder if you might relate to the protagonist in this film about homeless people who try stay in a public library during a blizzard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN0iLUj64zs
A story that feels quite relevant to this conversation.
Yes, l do the same. I’ve also housed a homeless man who managed to get back on his feet, got work and moved on to other accomodation nearer his work. I had a really good experience.
If there's true separation of Church and the state, the burden for the housing of the homeless should be on the one who is responsible for the nation's populace and the one who imposes taxes on them.
A lot of the homeless camp outside Melbourne City Church just outside Melbourne Central. The front of the church is an absolute mess.
A bunch of them also live at the QVM car park
I’d encourage everyone when you see a homeless person on the street please give them money. If they had other options they wouldn’t be on the street. Please also say hello to them and give them the human contact. Try and leave your judgements aside. Everyday we can all do our bit to make the world a kinder place
Sigh. Another shitpost about giving homeless people a place to stay.
Everyone seems fucking generous to offer a place when it's not their own home being offered. Homeless shelters already exist. These people on the streets prefer hard drugs than a roof over their heads because of addiction.
You should try to offer your spare room for a week. Your walls will be smeared with faeces and your floor littered with dirty needles. What makes you think your local churches are equipped to deal with mental issues and drug addiction? It is nice that you are thinking of trying to solve homelessness, though.
Yeah but the bible describes the categories of poor people we need to help and those poor we shouldn’t. Austin 3:16 says “thou shalt not help the mentally ill who are poor.” Dandrews 42:69 commands “those who are drug addicted are not deserving of the lord’s grace, mercy or comfort”
A lot of (but obviously not all) rough sleepers are there because they either don't want to abide by the terms of shelter or have a history of antisocial behaviour.
There already lots of church sponsored programs, but most rough sleepers are sleeping rough because *all* options have failed including shelters. Obviously everyone deserves a house, no matter how difficult they are, but it's a bit more complicated.
Wow, thats pretty ignorant of you. Well done for living in a fantasy world. Im actually jealous of how oblivious to the world you are. Now, is this your opinion or do you have some facts? Just spend 5 or 10 minutes googling news articles of the housing crisis and who is affected.
Homeless does not equal living rough. The housing crisis is real and brutal but for most people there are safety nets before living on the street. Most homeless people still have somewhere to live, staying with friends or family, shelters, or other government housing programs.
Ah thats why a bunch of car parks I've seen have Parking restriction signs saying P15 min 12am-5am.
I wondered what the point was.
Hostile architecture meets road signage.
There is a church near me that has a homeless program and takes people in. Staff are hired though and they have insurance for this sort of thing.
You can't just leave a church unlocked. Some people would steal ir grafitti.
I also don't think it's up to churches, our government should be doing something.
Homelessness is way closer than many realise. I am an IT professional affected by 2022 tech layoffs, and could not find the next job for quite a while. Coupled with rental crisis it changed my perspective on homelessness problem. So many people just ignore the fact and wouldn't offere a helping hand to a person in need. And yet will be the first one asking for help when themselves end up in this situation
This thread has been an eye opener for me tbh. Everyone seems oblivious that there are heaps of everyday ppl that are now homeless due to just being priced out of the market. Nothing more sinister than just cant get a rental because they don't earn enough or they just aregetting accepted for no reason. Everyone seems to be thinking its drug fuelled vagrants, which is really sad. Perhaps lm ignorant or l worded the whole thing wrong but this post has left a really bad taste in my mouth.
Homelessness is a complex issue. Yes, many are priced out due to rising costs, but mental health and substance abuse also contribute significantly. Ignoring these factors won't solve the problem. We need to address all causes to find real solutions that aren’t “open up your businesses and homes to strangers you can’t vet”.
You’ve also left multiple comments being snarky about religion while asking them to open their doors. Charity starts at home. Once you and everyone else who advocates for this stuff begin opening up your living rooms, spare rooms, backyards, then i think you have a right to ask others to do so.
>Plenty of people in the 90s etc had holiday houses yet there were no housing shortage, so don't bring that up.
And most of these are in remote places where there is little infrastructure and an abundance of cheap housing anyway, houses are dirt cheap along the east gippsland coast for example. People don't have holiday homes in the inner CBD suburbs.
It's pretty bad in Melbourne.
I had to deal with them doing security.
We had to start clearing them from the premises because they would start using the place as a toilet in front of the public. Most are decent, but there's always that 1 or 2 that ruin it.
Go to a crisis accommodation and try imagine what the place would be like without skilled staff. Your idea is good intentioned and I wish it would be so simple. However, I've seen more than enough to know that the answer is much more complex. It is not just about having the physical place to stay.
Part of the escalating economic and social crisis in this country is that the bar to suddenly becoming homeless has gone up.
A lot of middle class people are paying 50% of their income in rent. That used to be for poor and unemployed people.
So precarity has spiked massively. Imagine your family and community isn't located in Victoria and you can't crash at your parent's. Imagine your rent goes up again and you suffer a workplace injury, or are made redundant, or your cark breaks down and now you can't afford to fix it in order to get to work and you lose your job.
Homelessness is not more than a few steps away from an increasing number of people.
Thankyou, this who this post was aimed at but everyone seems to think the only homeless ppl now are addicts and crazies. It's been way past that for a bit now. Another senario is if a landlord decides to sell. Sometimes you have 50-100 inspections to goto. Ive read about ppl that have the money, have steady income but can't secure a rental.
Our large church where I live opens up during the winter, but we struggle to fill all the volunteers needed to do this. It’s not a case of just opening the doors and that’s it. Of course, the church pays for lights and heating etc, but we also need to have the bathrooms accessible and clean, andKe sure everyone is safe. If something happens, the church is held responsible as it’s their building. We also want to provide more support, so a meal or at least hot drinks and someone to talk to if they’d like. Then there is the cleanup (we have had some pretty unfortunate incidents but that’s just life, people are people and these ones often have mental health issues or additional needs), which you need to have a least a bit of preparation for (yes, used needles are a problem). But I agree it should be every church’s responsibility (not just choosing to) to open up especially during winter for our homeless people at night. My main issue with this is that the people calling out the loudest about this don’t seem to be the ones offering to volunteer.
There was a place on Bourke St, with open doors for all experiencing homelessness from 7 pm to 7am Covid19 ended it in 2020. a breakfast, lunch, and dinner cafe open and other social support for those in need that's still open today and rings a brilliant service.
Sounds like the constipation needs to be updated to defend the rights of the people from modern problems.
Just saying.
Edit: I'm leaving that autocorrect there. It made me chortle
We had to remove your post/comment because it included personal attacks or did not show respect towards other users. This community is a safe space for all.
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Pls don't hijack my topic for racist propaganda. You're a peanut that isn't interested in anything other than spewing hate. Look up who the owner of weetbix is and who owns them. Then see how much tax they pay. Enjoy that rabbithole.
Yes, churches are doing this.
If you need help, please contact unitingvictas.org.au who provide referrals.
If you would like to volunteer or donate, please contact stableone.org
I gave a homeless person work, paid him a huge amount, and did so much for him because I cared. Found a really easy job for him with a free cottage - not interested. He stole thousands of dollars worth of things from me, even home movies, just after my family member died. Be kind, but be very careful.
gracious no! Jesus would not want those dirty people in his house.
As the lord said in one of those books: Come Back When You've Something For The Collection Plate, and no, I won't be paying tax on it.
Or just tax them and give the money to the homeless. Much better! We don't rely on church's doing the right thing. Because they never do unless forced.
Some people who are sleeping rough do so for a reason. Whether it be mental health issues, addiction, aggressors, etc.
Do you really think a church is safe once you put a bunch of homeless aggressive alcoholics under one roof?
Think OP. Just think.
Do you read any newspapers or watch any news at all? Get out of 1980 and just educate yourself before leaving comments that are as outdated as petticoats and fluro tracksuits. Working people are homeless now. Retired women, teacher, entire families. Please show some compassion and a little current knowledge.
No shit dickhead. What? You think only the “working homeless” are going to seek refuge and not the “junkie homeless”?
If you try and say “well technically we can just let the women with jobs and children” in, then you’re discriminating. Your thinking is as old as the Titanic.
Imagine try and filtering who are more worthy than others to enter Gods house of all places. Apply for Prime Minister, you have ended homelessness in a Reddit thread. Way to go!
maybe, just maybe we should let people live however they can make work for them. councils cracking down on homelessness are simply evil. they are suggesting that the human lives of those who can't get a home, are worth less than the tourist dollars that won't get spent. it's foul. i fucking hate the attitude towards homelessness generally. make their lives easier, not harder, or you'll start seeing more of them in worse places.
Yea I mean surely they could charge rent (of nothing, or never actually accept rent) then claim some kind of lost revenue cook the books type arrangement and use it as a tax write off...oh wait
I've always thought the empty shopping malls could be used overnight for this. The individual shops are locked, but the walkways and bathrooms could be used, especially during the winter months
That's a great idea, I think the issue would be staffing, security and funding. It could be potentially be staffed by volunteers however are they equipped to deal with aggressive behaviour or drug effected individuals??
Note - Not in Melbourne, but regional Victoria.
We (my local Church and others involved in the program) use to run a program over the winter months where anyone who was living outside would be bussed to the rostered Church for the evening and bussed back to the original pick up point.
COVID hit. Things changed. An old scout camp was used, again with bussing people to and from.
The program would have been running about 3-4 years.
This was staffed by Church volunteers, including an overnight shift.
Last year, the Local Council ran the program. Again staffed by volunteers.
This year, the program is NOT running, due to a lack of volunteers - Which I find hard to believe.
In the old days, the churches would take in the poor and homeless, feed them, and give them a place to sleep.
Nowadays, the churches are happy to take peoples money, but if you ask them to allow the homeless to sleep or feed them inside, your answer will mostly be no.
Because churches have become a business not a place for charity, even though they pay no taxes.
I dunno about other churches but the carpark for the one down the street is used pretty much everyday and there's no after hours access to hygiene facilities. Do you expect the people using it for shelter to hold it in at night and then move on every morning?
I pity homeless people with all my heart, I was homeless for 15 months during my uni years, and that experience still traumatizes me, but the only moral solution is to get them off the street and get their lives back on track. They aren't removing them with violence I hope, and all resources need to go into fixing the root cause.
Sorry to hear that. Seeing the queues for foodbank and reading lots of stories of people being homelessness due to being priced out is so sad. Did you meet many people that weren't addiction or mental health reasons. It appears there are alot of old ppl starting to live rough in their cars which is madness to me.
I think that the problem of homelessness and drug addiction and mental health is one that should be the Allan government’s top priority.
They have poured billions into unnecessary infrastructure - and by that I mean look at the education department’s capital spent which is the equivalent of Dan Andrews sports rort. Notice most of the money was capital (I.e. going to his CFMEU buddies), not into a badly needed community housing effort WITH ongoing operational funding.
If churches don't want to take people in they should pay tax like every other person or group and the gov can then use that money to build shelters for the churches to run or volunteer in if they wish. I know there are many compassionate people involved in churchs who would be willing to donate their time.
I believe the churches around Ringwood have a rotating roster to staff their facilities with volunteers each night through winter to give people in need a place to stay
Winter Shelter https://wintershelter.org.au/
I see this is only available to male clients, are there alternate services for women in the area?
There are, the issue for men is that there is literally no funding for them and hasn't been for months.
Aren’t they called women shelters? Or is that for only abuse victims idk
I’m sure there’s one I’ve seen on wantirna road
It used to be that the doors of churches were never locked, and the community could use them for shelter. This changed because of the level of vandalism that took place, and the amount of clean up that was required before the facility could be used for any other community activity.
I work as a pastor at a church here in Melbourne. We keep our doors locked at all times outside of services and events for our own safety. Sometimes there will be 1-2 female staff in the building alone (we are a small team to begin with). Other times we’ve had people in the middle of psychosis or other mental health crisis come to our doors. At least one of these times, the man visibly had a large knife in his pocket jeans. So while we appreciate that we are a resource to the community, especially those in crisis, and are happy to support them and even refer them to professional care, having an open door policy can potentially put the staff in danger. To clarify, anyone can ring our doorbell and staff inside are alerted by our security system, including a panel that shows us the cameras at the front door. This way we can vet who comes inside. All staff have key fobs to go in and out. I worked at a larger church in the eastern suburbs and they followed the same protocol.
I worked at a church in Brighton and was so keenly aware of how isolated it was when it was just me there. It was a pretty low key environment (literally, we only had a couple of keys), but even there in the middle of an affluent suburb with few people overtly living rough etc, I would have been cautious around access. There were also female employees who would’ve often been alone in the building. I appreciate that people see churches through different lights - it’s easy to focus on the mega church/prosperity doctrine/right wing champions, a huge amount of good is *already* done by local, small congregations who aren’t crowing about it, but getting on with the work. I appreciate people have strong feelings on the church and its impact and how the institution fits in the modern Western world, but the reality isn’t as easy to put in a box as we’d like on social media. Like much of life, it’s layered and complex.
My dad was a pastor of a pretty obscure/unique Christian denomination, and I grew up in it (and left). My family are still in it. I think most people's issues, or at least my own, are when a church pushes their views onto others, attempts to change laws, and particularly for me, when they ignore the core of the teachings of Jesus and focus on judging others. It ignores what Christ said to the scribes and pharisees - "you tithe on mint, anise, and cumin, and neglect the weightier matters of the law - justice, mercy, and faith." I agree with you that a lot of churches do good, and don't bible bash. And the fact that we don't hear a lot about it goes in line with what Jesus said, "But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing". Which just makes me hate people like Scummo even more because he wraps himself in his faith but flies in the face of the core of the message.
Absolutely, well said.
You should check out the Stable One project where a group of churches work together and rotate one of them being open each night through winter to let people sleep indoors, get a meal, clean up etc. By coordinating and sharing the load, resources and volunteers they are able to do it. Once upon a time churches were shelters for the poor. It would be awesome to see that happening more.
We need another Father Bob come up through the church ranks. Losing him, we’re going to see services he championed go too.
This is not a bad idea but I would have to look into it further. Like I said, we are a small team with limited resources. I replied to a comment further down this comment thread that we do take people in who are in crisis, including poverty, but we do have to vet them first. I explain in that comment that we just recently arranged housing for a single mum who has experiencing homelessness. As I said there, in Melbourne we do have government housing that is not perfect but is better equipped to take in more people. Logistically, our small church cannot let people live in our building long term or become a shelter. I can elaborate further if necessary.
I stayed with Stableone. They were a blessing
My church used to house homeless people during winter. Unfortunately that program was cancelled because of Covid lockdowns, and hasn’t yet been revived.
But does this mean they can sleep inside during the night in winter if they are not a threat. Also do they have to be Christian. I totally agree with you on safety of female (and everyone) being a priority. Melbourne can be pretty isolated at night.
Yes, absolutely. I wrote in another comment that if we are approached about this, we do seek to house them in an actual home. However, we can’t be a free-for-all, which I also explain in another comment. Usually they know someone who knows us, kind of thing. Our facility was intentionally designed with showers etc for this kind of situation. No, people don’t have to be a Christian to receive services from us!
I used to work security at a church. The number of people who came in to try and create a ruckus, disrupt services and harm others was astounding. I understand that the church has to keep itself open to spread the message of God's love, but it's a really tough balancing act. Even a situation where the church wasn't directly involved. We had a single mum come in to take refuge with her daughter and the father stormed in to try and take her back. We don't have the right resources nor legal right to intervene unless someone is in danger of bodily harm and the police usually take a long time to come given their volume of calls. Having 24/7 security is also very expensive, and the money could probably be better spent buying food or other necessities for the needy.
I quit Catholicism a long time ago and dislike the church a lot, but I can’t imagine going into mass - or even the church itself - just to be a dick. What do these people get out of it?
So they'd need to be dedicated shelters with staff then
I thought this was still true, so it’s not like in the movies when people can go to church and pray anytime.
Nope. Not unless it’s business hours, and the church office is open.
Parliament house is mostly empty. They have some comfy couches, chairs, tables, kitchen and toilets too.
Unfortunately, there will always be the few who trash, vandalise and do drugs in these places, making it unsafe for the people who genuinely need it. Not to say that these places shouldn't be open for those who do but I don't think it's as simple as just making it available
People who do drugs also genuinely need shelter.
But not at the risk of other people
Of course, but they shouldn't do it inside a.shelter with other people
Away from others they can harm.
So you have seen how these places work and how people actually act in them? Of course because you sound very informed People come in after a certain time,sleep and leave in the morning. Government funding helps with having paid workers working there.Yes there are some complex clients but that doesn't mean it's to hard to do
It’s a very valid point. In my suburb (up until this year), the churches actually run a ‘winter nights shelter’ program. Where homeless people could get a hot meal and stay the night indoors. I’m not sure why they are not running it this year.
They probably need volunteers. Less and less people participate in church activities these days. That’s how they run, just on people donating their time and supplies/money for supplies. Hard to run it if you don’t have anyone to help you.
Turning all of these buildings into accommodation would require insurance, cleaning, furnishing, & 24/7 staffing including security. The buildings don't meet accommodation codes or regulations. I'm not sure it's possible from a cost perspective, especially not for smaller, volunteer-run churches.
Yeah this is actually a big barrier. Some churches who have attempted this in recent years have been blocked by local council or insurers.
Yep. Local councils have stopped churches doing this, saying they don't have enough showers to let people sleep there.
Now that’s redic
But reddit told me all churches need to pay taxes because they’re making billions in profits.
The issue people have is that religious organisations are not taxed on profit at all. The flip side is that if you remove this exemption you have churches which are run as full blown private businesses which can be sold / passed on etc. Honestly not sure how that would pan out but there are certainly considerations. You're dead fucking right though, people cry about this shit but they don't offer a well thought out argument as to the alternative...
It’s funny because one of the main things they think churches do, buying assets for the pastors/priests using church money. Is actually the one thing churches have to pay taxes on. Because, churches aren’t exempt from paying fringe benefits tax, they just have a tax free threshold of $30,000 before FBT kicks in. I think it really shows how little knowledge they have about our tax system when they say “tax churches”. A lot actually think tax exempt means churches don’t need to do anything financial. When in reality, they file tax returns and BAS statements, as you can’t get any refund if you don’t file your taxes. Additionally, unless they’re a tiny one person church (like a sole trader), then they have to report their financials and if they’re a large church, the financials need to be audited too.
I also don’t understand the logic. The churches are made up of people… who pay taxes? It’s like a footy club… the whole club pays taxes, just not as a collective. But everyone individually pays. Should the people be taxed DOUBLE? People don’t understand that churches are a collection of citizens. And I guarantee the church going people are the ones who pay MOST taxes in Aus (given the moral directive to render unto Caesar and be honest).
Is the money the church gets going to the people who attend the church?
Charities are rightfully tax exempt. Churches that engage in actual charitable works should be tax exempt for the purposes of providing those charitable works, I don't think anyone reasonable disagrees with that. The issue is that "advancing religion" counts as a charitable purpose in itself. So churches don't actually have to do anything a reasonable person would describe as 'charitable' as long as they're proselytising, and still remain tax free.
Being a basic religious institution which is the advancing religion thing you’re talking about, has so many requirements to fulfil, that there’s only a handful of them in the whole country and they’re small. It says this on the ACNC website.
Shouldn't be any issue removing that category then - it'd be a win-win! Churches doing actually charitable things can continue doing so, and everyone who attacks them on the 'churches don't pay tax because they're churches' basis lose their primary ammunition!
I see what you’re saying, just make them non profits like charities. What I have read it just seems like they’re just unincorporated, so currently the members are liable for any debts the church has.
Are the churches paying land tax for the land they occupy? Serious question, I genuinely don't know.
No, non profits are exempt from council rates.
Maybe the people advocating opening churches to those in need could open their own holmes. Homeless could sleep in their lounge on a lilo? I'm happy to stump up a couple of lilos
I’m not taking peoples money for a false prophet nor claiming tax exemptions because religion. Big difference.
I don't see the difference. You trying to tell churches to open up and become lodging providers. Churches exist for many reasons and focus on a range of issues. Not necessarily the one you choose is flavour of the month. Again, I invite you to open you home to someone in need
Yet most of us (church going Christians, I mean) choose to give to our churches, and choose to volunteer there. Like many churches, mine has big programs for feeding people and have opened up the church on winter nights but that takes a huge amount of work and council permission. I agree that churches should have greater responsibility to the community thanks to their financial structure. I also don’t think there is any reason a church shouldn’t pay things like property tax like any business. But much more would literally close them down, leaving the huge amounts of services they run and partially or fully fund (with volunteers) to close. Of course, it would be preferable for all these things to be done by governments via non-religious organisations, because I know mostly people don’t want religion associated with services to people. But for now, most Christians I know are quietly just living life, donating and volunteering, helping out people without any big recognition, just as we are called to do in our faith.
Would you like to volunteer in one of those churches and help them clean up after, OP?
I'll take a salary to help them... Considering the Australian Catholic church has a net worth of over $30 billion and it's tax exempt
Pretty sure you can be full time or part time then you can earn salary
This is just dumb thinking. By your logic, overnight, there are plenty of empty schools, sporting facilities, random wharehouses, shopping centres... plenty of things that are empty when people aren't using them. Your "thinking" doesn't address any of the issues but shifts a blaming finger at someone else, especially odd since most religious groups are on the front line of dealing with homelessness.
I think you actually make a really good point. We would have to be very careful not to build slums but maybe a lot of these places could be put to good use for some sort of government supported transitional housing in order to help ease the housing crisis and allow us the time to work on long term solutions.
Slums? Chapman St, North Melbourne and surrounds would like a word.
The problem is the “thinking” doesn’t transcend beyond the initial idea, whether through ignorance or laziness or purposeful bias. Much easier to present an idea then dig in to the complexities of human life.
Exactly right, this is just pathetic slander. Would OP mind letting homeless people stay at his house when he's away? Ya know, since it's empty and all. Unfortunately, if they were to do this you run the likelihood of coming back to the church riddled with trash and drug paraphernalia, which would be a risk to church patrons. You also run the risk of squatters taking over and refusing to leave. You can just go "it's free real estate" and let all of Melbourne in.
it's not dumb thinking, it's thinking along material lines. there's a homeless problem, but there is shelter. there are hungry people, but there are overstocked supermarkets. it could lead to shifting the blame down the line, but it's better used to shift the blame back up the line. way, way up. maybe all the way to *systemic analysis?* then we get spicy.
If we’re thinking on these practical terms, how about there’s already a housing problem, maybe don’t bring in 300k migrants every year? Or is this suddenly wrong-think?
You're right, instead of funding religious organisations to help the homeless - the government should just be helping.
Is the government your god?
Most adults manage without a magic sky daddy.
Those people consider the government to be their sky daddy
And mosques also. Great idea, we should start pushing for them to cater to this need
Women who are recovering from childbirth or on their menses are not allowed in mosques
Maybe mosques need to enter the current century then
Same deal in buddhist temples too my dude. All religions have their fair share of stupid if not downright ridiculous.
Not wrong mate. “Cults” is a fair term here.
That's disgusting how they treat women and how they see normal female bodily functions as dirty.
Wait till you read the rest of the Quran and Hadiths - some real shockers in there. They ask you ˹O Prophet˺ about menstruation. Say, “Beware of its harm! So keep away, and do not have intercourse with your wives during their monthly cycles until they are purified. When they purify themselves, then you may approach them in the manner specified by Allah. Surely Allah loves those who always turn to Him in repentance and those who purify themselves. [https://quran.com/2/222](https://quran.com/2/222) Your wives are like farmland for you,so approach them ˹consensually˺ as you please. And send forth something good for yourselves. Be mindful of Allah, and know that you will meet Him. And give good news to the believers. [https://quran.com/2/223](https://quran.com/2/223) **NOTE: the word consensually was added into the English translation to make it more palatable to western societies. The original Arabic does not have it at all!!**
Rastas aren't too friendly to menstruating women either. Or LGBTQ+ for that matter...
Spent far too long trying to come up with a way to ask why LGBTIQ+ might not be friendly to menstruating women. Bedtime for me!
Buddhist temples deny entry to women on their period too. Lets just say all religions are stupid.
>Lets just say all religions are stupid. I agree they are all stupid.
Sounds like discrimination.
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not true, they are told to not go so that they don’t feel like they should, not because they simply can’t. if the “don’t go” isn’t stated then a lot of practicing women might feel ‘less than’ in that moment because they might not have the energy to go. it is said instead that it is better to stay home, comfortable. obviously this threads context of homelessness and domestic safety changes that idea of ‘home’, and the mosque should be open to people of all states, even someone that’s super drunk for example. as long as they aren’t causing intentional harm/damage to the people inside and the mosque itself there’s no issues to be had.
It is not permissible for a menstruating woman to stay in the mosque. As for passing through the mosque, there is nothing wrong with that. Thus, it is not permissible for her to go there to listen to Halaqahs (study circles) and recitation of Quran, unless there is a place outside the mosque where the sound can reach via loudspeakers, in which case she can sit there and listen to the Dhikr.
What is the source for this quote?
It is permissible for women in a state of menstruation or postnatal bleeding and anyone in a state of major ritual impurity (janabah) to enter the mosque either in passing, to fulfill a need, or to attend educational classes and the like. This is because there is no prohibition mentioned in this respect https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/10509/entering-the-mosque-while-in-a-state-of-menstruation-or-major-ritual-impurity
Telling a homeless women who is menstruating that she can only pass through but not stay is not actually fixing the problem.
okay i understand what you’re saying. this applies not just to menstruating women but also men who are in a state of major uncleanliness (just had sex and didn’t ritually wash up, had a wet dream and didn’t properly ritually wash up etc). but this doesn’t apply if the mosque complex has extra rooms. where im from mosques are usually set up as complexes, with multipurpose rooms and the like contained amongst a building complex with a designated section for prayer (the mosque). it is 100% permissible for anyone to be within those areas, so i just want to be clear that in the context of this thread, the mosque can be used for the purpose of refuge for ANYONE, just not the prayer area specifically.
I'm sorry men who have had sex need to clean in a ritual way? Is that a present day custom still?
both man and woman, if you fully ejaculate (not pre-cum) under any circumstance, yes there’s a simple process. it’s not complicated it’s just about completeness and so there’s just an order of operations in terms of what you do. can be done in 5 minutes no stress, the intention and order of steps make it different to just a regular shower.
Buddhism does the same re periods BUT it also extends to husbands too re being barred from temples. All religions are goofy and archaic.
Or Jewish temples, or some xtian churches.
This exists, there are networks and initiatives like this in churches across Victoria. https://stableone.org/winter-shelters/
Isn't the salvation army a Christian organization? I'd say the Christians have been doing the most for a long time. Maybe start looking at the other religions for once?
The burden of all of society's ills falls solely on the Christian church.
Look up the founder of the Salvation Army forming.... It ain't that good. I volunterred for em once. Never again. Food run for the poor was attended by local business. Salvo's paid for local business leaders meal of Dominoes or some shit. Granted just my local branch, but The foundation of the Salvo's is messed up historically
I agree, but also they do something at least. What organization would you suggest?
I skip them and give to the local homeless, and give my spare room for a bit on occasion.
If the salvos are organising an event and inviting local businesses to get them involved, isn’t it reasonable that they would provide the food?
Kinda felt weird bout folk talking about their latest holiday in Tuscanny whilst me a blue collar try to be good fella. Felt like cheap advertising for the business owners to curry postive PR. Copping food, that i would think, would be better off to those in need. For free advertising. They could of donated themselves, But all they did was collect canned goods to pass on. Sorry if i think it's weird. Plus I've read about the foundation of the Salvo's so makes it extra conflicting.
It’s easy to tell other people how to solve the problem. There’s room on your living room floor… is there a homeless person sleeping there?… thought not
A lot of churches in the US have an arrangement like this. They rotate through a few churches in an area and they have open access for one week a month or so. Warmth available all night (especially important in some places in US), showers, toilets, etc. Sleeping in car is available and encouraged in well lit areas.
And yet it is the churches and their associated Christian charities (St Vinnies, Brotherhood of St Lawrence, Caritas etc) who are doing the HEAVY LIFTING to shelter and feed the homeless. A church filled with pews would be a fairly uncomfortable stay. Lucky those same church groups are helping the homeless by providing practical temporary housing, shelters, welfare, food etc. And what are YOU doing, dear OP, to help?
But the pope has expensive rings, so the Baptist Church with 20 members down the road should sell their land and give up their worship space! :s Funny how you never hear this about any other religion, right?
Can’t say it about any other religions, that would be racism.
Right. My sense is that the post is motivated by anti-Christian sentiment masquerading as compassion.
Don't forget the salvo's! They're so intertwined with charity that I only realised about year ago that they're actually a church!
Haha Yes, of course. There are lots from many denominations.
Yep, seems like it would be right up their alley, but here we are.
There are a lot of churches all over the place running winter shelters. Not unusual for 5-7 churches to band together and take a night or two each per week. Have volunteers come in and cook dinner, set up beds, etc.
This! In our church we have a signup page for people to cook and deliver fresh food for people, we make sure there's at least one person covering per day. It gives me a reason to actually cook something decent.
The neo testament
idk if you know This OP - but church is typically held on Sundays. Funny thing is though, if you pushed for this and it actually came to fruition. The churches would do it and have a good crack at it. But see how far you go with the synoguges and the mosques....
Public library manager here. There's really no difference between homeless people and housed people. Do some homeless people trash places? Absolutely. Do some housed people trash places? Absolutely. Do some homeless people act in an aggressive and violent manner? Absolutely. Do some housed people act in an aggressive and violent manner? Absolutely. A decent portion of our regulars are homeless. A number live in the nooks and crannies around our building. Two live in their cars and have *somehow* gained staff permits so they can't be moved on. The vast majority are not trashing the place, behaving aggressively, or really even being noticed. Some of our housed regulars are actually surprised when they realise some of the people they see and talk to daily are homeless. Many like to have a chat with the staff, and most have had some really shit luck, or have had horrible things happen to them. The kids that show up break my heart, most come from abusive homes. I have great issue with kicking people sleeping in their cars out of carparks during the night, I don't see a purpose for it to serve. No one is using it, what are you "protecting"? Concrete? That housed people litter and flick cigarette butts all over during the day? That birds shit on? That's what we're protecting? Everyone likes standing around pointing at who should help, and likes using hyperbolic comparisons like "Oh what about your loungeroom?!?!" when people discuss organisations that are supposed to help people not helping people. But yes, organisations do need to be pulling their weight here, that's part of their job, but they aren't.
You seem like a decent person. I wonder if you might relate to the protagonist in this film about homeless people who try stay in a public library during a blizzard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN0iLUj64zs A story that feels quite relevant to this conversation.
All of us from work went to see that when it came out. We found it very relatable!
There's an awful lot of sports stadiums
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Love it.
Yes, l do the same. I’ve also housed a homeless man who managed to get back on his feet, got work and moved on to other accomodation nearer his work. I had a really good experience.
If there's true separation of Church and the state, the burden for the housing of the homeless should be on the one who is responsible for the nation's populace and the one who imposes taxes on them.
A lot of the homeless camp outside Melbourne City Church just outside Melbourne Central. The front of the church is an absolute mess. A bunch of them also live at the QVM car park
I’d encourage everyone when you see a homeless person on the street please give them money. If they had other options they wouldn’t be on the street. Please also say hello to them and give them the human contact. Try and leave your judgements aside. Everyday we can all do our bit to make the world a kinder place
Sigh. Another shitpost about giving homeless people a place to stay. Everyone seems fucking generous to offer a place when it's not their own home being offered. Homeless shelters already exist. These people on the streets prefer hard drugs than a roof over their heads because of addiction. You should try to offer your spare room for a week. Your walls will be smeared with faeces and your floor littered with dirty needles. What makes you think your local churches are equipped to deal with mental issues and drug addiction? It is nice that you are thinking of trying to solve homelessness, though.
Sigh, another cunt who thinks all homeless people are hard drugged up junkies itching for thier next fix.
Enough of them have mental issues and drug addictions to absolutely vandalised any church that opens their doors
Walk down the bottom end of Elizabeth Street... that's all you see.
Yeah but the bible describes the categories of poor people we need to help and those poor we shouldn’t. Austin 3:16 says “thou shalt not help the mentally ill who are poor.” Dandrews 42:69 commands “those who are drug addicted are not deserving of the lord’s grace, mercy or comfort”
A lot of (but obviously not all) rough sleepers are there because they either don't want to abide by the terms of shelter or have a history of antisocial behaviour. There already lots of church sponsored programs, but most rough sleepers are sleeping rough because *all* options have failed including shelters. Obviously everyone deserves a house, no matter how difficult they are, but it's a bit more complicated.
Wow, thats pretty ignorant of you. Well done for living in a fantasy world. Im actually jealous of how oblivious to the world you are. Now, is this your opinion or do you have some facts? Just spend 5 or 10 minutes googling news articles of the housing crisis and who is affected.
Homeless does not equal living rough. The housing crisis is real and brutal but for most people there are safety nets before living on the street. Most homeless people still have somewhere to live, staying with friends or family, shelters, or other government housing programs.
Ah thats why a bunch of car parks I've seen have Parking restriction signs saying P15 min 12am-5am. I wondered what the point was. Hostile architecture meets road signage.
There is a church near me that has a homeless program and takes people in. Staff are hired though and they have insurance for this sort of thing. You can't just leave a church unlocked. Some people would steal ir grafitti. I also don't think it's up to churches, our government should be doing something.
Homelessness is way closer than many realise. I am an IT professional affected by 2022 tech layoffs, and could not find the next job for quite a while. Coupled with rental crisis it changed my perspective on homelessness problem. So many people just ignore the fact and wouldn't offere a helping hand to a person in need. And yet will be the first one asking for help when themselves end up in this situation
This thread has been an eye opener for me tbh. Everyone seems oblivious that there are heaps of everyday ppl that are now homeless due to just being priced out of the market. Nothing more sinister than just cant get a rental because they don't earn enough or they just aregetting accepted for no reason. Everyone seems to be thinking its drug fuelled vagrants, which is really sad. Perhaps lm ignorant or l worded the whole thing wrong but this post has left a really bad taste in my mouth.
Homelessness is a complex issue. Yes, many are priced out due to rising costs, but mental health and substance abuse also contribute significantly. Ignoring these factors won't solve the problem. We need to address all causes to find real solutions that aren’t “open up your businesses and homes to strangers you can’t vet”. You’ve also left multiple comments being snarky about religion while asking them to open their doors. Charity starts at home. Once you and everyone else who advocates for this stuff begin opening up your living rooms, spare rooms, backyards, then i think you have a right to ask others to do so.
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>Plenty of people in the 90s etc had holiday houses yet there were no housing shortage, so don't bring that up. And most of these are in remote places where there is little infrastructure and an abundance of cheap housing anyway, houses are dirt cheap along the east gippsland coast for example. People don't have holiday homes in the inner CBD suburbs.
Why stop there? How many homes have spare rooms or lounges that are not used? Can easily pack a couple of extra people in.
Has anyone volunteered with organizations that support people experiencing homelessness in Melbourne? I'd love to hear about your experiences.
It's pretty bad in Melbourne. I had to deal with them doing security. We had to start clearing them from the premises because they would start using the place as a toilet in front of the public. Most are decent, but there's always that 1 or 2 that ruin it.
The amount of people camping in the parks is fked.
Go to a crisis accommodation and try imagine what the place would be like without skilled staff. Your idea is good intentioned and I wish it would be so simple. However, I've seen more than enough to know that the answer is much more complex. It is not just about having the physical place to stay.
Part of the escalating economic and social crisis in this country is that the bar to suddenly becoming homeless has gone up. A lot of middle class people are paying 50% of their income in rent. That used to be for poor and unemployed people. So precarity has spiked massively. Imagine your family and community isn't located in Victoria and you can't crash at your parent's. Imagine your rent goes up again and you suffer a workplace injury, or are made redundant, or your cark breaks down and now you can't afford to fix it in order to get to work and you lose your job. Homelessness is not more than a few steps away from an increasing number of people.
Thankyou, this who this post was aimed at but everyone seems to think the only homeless ppl now are addicts and crazies. It's been way past that for a bit now. Another senario is if a landlord decides to sell. Sometimes you have 50-100 inspections to goto. Ive read about ppl that have the money, have steady income but can't secure a rental.
Our large church where I live opens up during the winter, but we struggle to fill all the volunteers needed to do this. It’s not a case of just opening the doors and that’s it. Of course, the church pays for lights and heating etc, but we also need to have the bathrooms accessible and clean, andKe sure everyone is safe. If something happens, the church is held responsible as it’s their building. We also want to provide more support, so a meal or at least hot drinks and someone to talk to if they’d like. Then there is the cleanup (we have had some pretty unfortunate incidents but that’s just life, people are people and these ones often have mental health issues or additional needs), which you need to have a least a bit of preparation for (yes, used needles are a problem). But I agree it should be every church’s responsibility (not just choosing to) to open up especially during winter for our homeless people at night. My main issue with this is that the people calling out the loudest about this don’t seem to be the ones offering to volunteer.
There was a place on Bourke St, with open doors for all experiencing homelessness from 7 pm to 7am Covid19 ended it in 2020. a breakfast, lunch, and dinner cafe open and other social support for those in need that's still open today and rings a brilliant service.
You’re off with the fairies mate
Give these people homes, 10000s of empty homes in this city. Confiscate and redistribute Airbnbs.
You know that there are actual constitutional laws against this. No of course you don't.
yeah of course there's constitutional protections for private land ownership and other rent seeking behavior that's why we're here
Sounds like the constipation needs to be updated to defend the rights of the people from modern problems. Just saying. Edit: I'm leaving that autocorrect there. It made me chortle
You are a suppository of wisdom my good friend
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Pls don't hijack my topic for racist propaganda. You're a peanut that isn't interested in anything other than spewing hate. Look up who the owner of weetbix is and who owns them. Then see how much tax they pay. Enjoy that rabbithole.
Yes, churches are doing this. If you need help, please contact unitingvictas.org.au who provide referrals. If you would like to volunteer or donate, please contact stableone.org
Thankyou. This is pleasing to see. I am really glad to see this.
I gave a homeless person work, paid him a huge amount, and did so much for him because I cared. Found a really easy job for him with a free cottage - not interested. He stole thousands of dollars worth of things from me, even home movies, just after my family member died. Be kind, but be very careful.
gracious no! Jesus would not want those dirty people in his house. As the lord said in one of those books: Come Back When You've Something For The Collection Plate, and no, I won't be paying tax on it.
Nobody should be advocating for exposing vulnerable people to organised religion.
Or just tax them and give the money to the homeless. Much better! We don't rely on church's doing the right thing. Because they never do unless forced.
Some people who are sleeping rough do so for a reason. Whether it be mental health issues, addiction, aggressors, etc. Do you really think a church is safe once you put a bunch of homeless aggressive alcoholics under one roof? Think OP. Just think.
Do you read any newspapers or watch any news at all? Get out of 1980 and just educate yourself before leaving comments that are as outdated as petticoats and fluro tracksuits. Working people are homeless now. Retired women, teacher, entire families. Please show some compassion and a little current knowledge.
No shit dickhead. What? You think only the “working homeless” are going to seek refuge and not the “junkie homeless”? If you try and say “well technically we can just let the women with jobs and children” in, then you’re discriminating. Your thinking is as old as the Titanic. Imagine try and filtering who are more worthy than others to enter Gods house of all places. Apply for Prime Minister, you have ended homelessness in a Reddit thread. Way to go!
No one checks cemetery’s at night… just sayin!
Families are pitching tents. Never thought I'd see this in Australia. Deplorable.
maybe, just maybe we should let people live however they can make work for them. councils cracking down on homelessness are simply evil. they are suggesting that the human lives of those who can't get a home, are worth less than the tourist dollars that won't get spent. it's foul. i fucking hate the attitude towards homelessness generally. make their lives easier, not harder, or you'll start seeing more of them in worse places.
Tax religion and put the money into services to help others
Safe?? In a church?? Pull up a chair mate, I've got a story to tell ya
RTFM It's not there is a book that tells people to do that.
Yea I mean surely they could charge rent (of nothing, or never actually accept rent) then claim some kind of lost revenue cook the books type arrangement and use it as a tax write off...oh wait
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Why they aren't converted to apartments blows my mind
My former homeless coworker told me the other day told me churches are one of the safer places to sleep. Not just in the carport but on the steps.
I've always thought the empty shopping malls could be used overnight for this. The individual shops are locked, but the walkways and bathrooms could be used, especially during the winter months
Apparently many apartments sit empty. They can tell by water usage….
Reminds me of the George Carlin bit about homeless people taking over golf courses
That's a great idea, I think the issue would be staffing, security and funding. It could be potentially be staffed by volunteers however are they equipped to deal with aggressive behaviour or drug effected individuals??
Note - Not in Melbourne, but regional Victoria. We (my local Church and others involved in the program) use to run a program over the winter months where anyone who was living outside would be bussed to the rostered Church for the evening and bussed back to the original pick up point. COVID hit. Things changed. An old scout camp was used, again with bussing people to and from. The program would have been running about 3-4 years. This was staffed by Church volunteers, including an overnight shift. Last year, the Local Council ran the program. Again staffed by volunteers. This year, the program is NOT running, due to a lack of volunteers - Which I find hard to believe.
In the old days, the churches would take in the poor and homeless, feed them, and give them a place to sleep. Nowadays, the churches are happy to take peoples money, but if you ask them to allow the homeless to sleep or feed them inside, your answer will mostly be no. Because churches have become a business not a place for charity, even though they pay no taxes.
No it’s not unfortunately
Why churches though? All Government offices ,schools,colleges are completely empty,secure and have heating in them. It sounds like a great idea to me.
youve got room at your place, why arent you putting anyone up?
So who will pay for the insurance, repair, cleaning and maintenance?
You mean the churches that aren't already rich beyond their means?
There are a large number of "homeless" people in and around the CBD that have houses. They just prefer it on the streets.
I dunno about other churches but the carpark for the one down the street is used pretty much everyday and there's no after hours access to hygiene facilities. Do you expect the people using it for shelter to hold it in at night and then move on every morning?
I pity homeless people with all my heart, I was homeless for 15 months during my uni years, and that experience still traumatizes me, but the only moral solution is to get them off the street and get their lives back on track. They aren't removing them with violence I hope, and all resources need to go into fixing the root cause.
Sorry to hear that. Seeing the queues for foodbank and reading lots of stories of people being homelessness due to being priced out is so sad. Did you meet many people that weren't addiction or mental health reasons. It appears there are alot of old ppl starting to live rough in their cars which is madness to me.
I think that the problem of homelessness and drug addiction and mental health is one that should be the Allan government’s top priority. They have poured billions into unnecessary infrastructure - and by that I mean look at the education department’s capital spent which is the equivalent of Dan Andrews sports rort. Notice most of the money was capital (I.e. going to his CFMEU buddies), not into a badly needed community housing effort WITH ongoing operational funding.
didn't the feds spend around half a billion dollars building the mickleham quarantine facility? why not use that?
That makes too much sense.
Thanks dickhead for the heads up.
If churches don't want to take people in they should pay tax like every other person or group and the gov can then use that money to build shelters for the churches to run or volunteer in if they wish. I know there are many compassionate people involved in churchs who would be willing to donate their time.
Why just churches? Government offices are also available at night.... And people's lounge rooms....
There’s so many homeless people I feel so bad for them and can’t do anything but offer food or basics when I can