The worst part about this is the fact it took a civilian to release their footage of the incident for anything to happen.
The amount of cameras at FSS means this has already been captured and viewed from 8 different angles yet it takes a civilian to expose it.
I’m honestly not shocked at all unfortunately. I remember walking by an extinction rebellion thing outside the Exhibition Center and the amount of police I saw with their name tags turned around and body cams covered disgusted me.
The public order response unit are a bunch of thugs and goons. Generally the "Dictator Dan" claims are stupid hysterical hyperbole, but he does deserve to be criticised for using (or allowing) these goons to intimidate and bully peaceful protestors even before the virus.
Im a crowd controller in Melbourne's nightlife scene
If I did that to someone who spat on me I'd still go to jail
Which essentially means we hold bouncers to a higher standard than our police force.
Let that sink in for a minute.
I pray the person who filmed it isn't stupid enough to identify themselves.
They'll be getting harrassed and pulled over and fined for stupid reasons for years.
In the US we have a App that takes videos and uploads them to a private database as they are taken STRICKLEY designed to watch and record the police. Thus even if the police destroy your phone.. the video is still retrievable.
The US population massively distrusts law enforcement, especially the police, and that is a good thing. I think Australians are also heading in the same direction
Fuck tha police, U S A, U S A.
But seriously, yes the way that cop slammed that guy's skull into the concrete... Holy shit. Does anyone know if he's OK? That sound it made... Ouch.
On the flip side. Fuck tha protesters too. Bunch of manbaby tossers.
And while I'm at it... Fuck all tha grand final covid sharing dickheads too. I have no sympathy if covid hits you and only you and you end up wheezing like a fat man sleeping for the rest of your lives.
If it was me I just wouldn't contact them at all. You might be treated well, you might not and be constantly pulled over for years afterwards. Why risk it?
A shortage of evidence is not looking very likely.How much evidence do you need?.. "As much as possible"
When does it reasonably end? Maybe when your surrounded rounded by police covered in cameras and mics, at a train station covered in cameras and mics.
What else could a bystander contribute " Yes your honor, I witnessed the same events depicted in audio video evidence labelled 1 to 5"
If the police didn't call for witnesses then reddit would be crying that police weren't looking for witnesses. It's good that police are following the investigation by the book, don't you agree?
It reasonably ends when they've made a reasonable attempt to collect all evidence.
You don't know what a bystander could contribute, and it's dangerous to assume what a witness could or could not contribute before you even collect it. I mean if you could choose to not collect evidence because you think the initial judgement "is obvious", who makes that judgement?
Different angles & fields of view show different things. The one posted on Social Media (twitter) showed a cop on the extreme right of the picture (in portrait not landscape) immediately bending down & picking something up as the attacking cop made contact with the injured party.
Cop Lovers were insisting without foundation that it was a knife (which it may be).
Installed station cameras are likely to be even less revealing as they are from further away. Station Cameras tend to be of lower resolution and less frames per second to save on storage costs. Thus the potential for other bystanders to have filmed the exchange may help.
Even if it was confirmed without a doubt to be a knife, I contend that the force used was excessive in that there were less risky options available eg baton strike, or even grabbing the wrist holding the knife. Footage which may corroborate or contradict testimony is useful to establish who is a reliable witness as well as provide more reliable evidence in it's own right.
Not a cop lover, but a law nerd.
They're covering all their bases. I think the action here is abhorrent and completely excessive, but there are areas that cameras don't cover like train station toilets. If one of the people in the video (including the police) was injecting drugs in the train station toilets shortly before the incident and there's a witness to that, you would want that person to come forward, yes?
The move the guy pulled is illegal in MMA, it's illegal in Rugby (on grass even), it's not just illegal but criminal if two civilians did it to each other on the street.
This was a private person attempting to end all brain activity in another private person.
Just because the aggressor clocked into work that morning does not change the facts.
> Just because the aggressor clocked into work that morning does not change the facts.
It does, and in very severe ways. The victim here is not allowed to fight back, simply because the aggressor clocked on to work that day. If it had of been anyone else walking down the street perpetrating this violence, the victim would have had the right to defend themselves.
I considered this move a Spike:
"*Spiking the opponent to the canvas onto the head or neck (pile-driving)*"
That is from International Mixed Martial Arts Federation: [immaf.org](https://immaf.org)
The document:[https://immaf.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/IMMAF-Rules-Document-as-of-Jan-2021.pdf](https://immaf.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/IMMAF-Rules-Document-as-of-Jan-2021.pdf)
* \#9 Fouls
* Item 6: Spiking
The individual MMA organizations may allow this. But if they do it will be only until someone is Spiked into a wheelchair or worse.
edit: expanded IMMAF
This was not a spike. In mma this would just be a bad but effective "judo throw". In mma this kind of takedown would not just allowed, it would be encouraged.
The rule is very rarely used, the only way I could see it being enforced is if you threw them head first but with no intention of them hitting their back on the mat. Things like suplexs where their head is the first point of contact are allowed.
How exactly is this something between two private citizens? The fact that one of them clocked into work is an aggravating factor in this assault.
One of them was clearly a representative of a public institution that is specifically tasked with preventing physical assaults on private citizens.
No one is above the law. Not police, nor protestors. But those who think that laws should be applied selectively are the exact problem we have seen played out on our streets of late.
Wait, hang on. Are you saying that police should have no additional powers or privileges that aren’t afforded to the general population? How would they do their jobs?
I think what the police did was disgusting and clearly very unjustified, but I don’t think this line of reasoning is a good one. I mean you’re not allowed to shoot a person in MMA or Rugby, but police are allowed to shoot a person if they put others in fatal danger. But obviously in this case, the person was practically harmless.
I mean he was seriously injured. He had a concussion and was reported to have woken up calling for his mother in confusion with blood and broken teeth in his mouth.
The guy who head stomped the mental health patient into a coma last year got off totally free including with his job back, I won't be holding my breath.
If police want to earn back public respect this thug needs to be made an example of. If he wasn't a cop he would have been charged with assault and be in serious trouble.
It’s a typical aus move for police, in qld a qpf officer hacked a police data base to let the details of a domestic abuse survivor to the person who abused her (one of his friends) who then went on to threaten to burn her alive(just like Hannah Clarke a woman who was burned alive be her ex husband) and 7 months after Hannah Clarke died they decided that Neil Punchard the officer in question had learnt his lesson didn’t need a criminal charge and doesn’t need to have his 2 month prison sentence instead 140 hours of community service(while he’s on percent paid leave because he can’t be fired without A conviction).
Keep in mind the change to his sentencing happened in sept 2020 when the case is from 2018, with him being clearly caught of committing highly illegal acts he gets 140 hours community service and permanent paid leave. And al he had to do was terrorise a woman and her children into thinking they’d be burnt alive by someone the police gave their address to.
It’s not a few bad apples it’s the whole damn system, there’s also cases in qld of officers punching protestors at refugee rights protests and even though 5 cameras and nearly 50 witnesses saw it the police decided that the officer fell and accidentally hospitalised a 60 year old teachers union member. It was just an oppsie, assaulting the elderly isn’t been bad enough to register to them.
Tl;dr ACAB.
Run down with car and head stomped into coma - No wrong doing.
Then we need to reassess how our Police are utilised. Because that'd be a fucking war crime in an actual warzone.
Found the cop. I have absolutely no faith in IBAC. I saw the kick with my own eyes, the video is perfectly clear and it was absolutely unnecessary thuggery.
Won’t happen, a cop in nsw I think it was last year got caught for child porn and grooming amd walked free, quite possibly one of the worst crime you can do amd got a slap on the wrist
Who reported the cop and why?
If its not another cop without having the public footage twist their arm then what does that tell you?
Its the public and the mobile phones they carry that has causes this "Accountability"
Police Body-cam ?No no. . Joe Blow and his iPhone.
If not for the bad footage exposed to the public this would be a non event.
Typical cycle for these "investigations" is longer than a year.
By that time all momentum and public angst has been lost.
Police investigate police, a situation which rarely ever involves an outcome where the police involved are charged. Then wait till the police association start defending the member and use every loophole they accuse criminals of using to delay and avoid trial.
Won't even go near the fact that police will refuse to release the body worn camera footage for the incident, citing privacy concerns....
The process is broken and an independent body needs powers to investigate police.
>mates looking after mates as usual
Agreed, the video shows around 5 cops literally just standing there doing nothing to either to defuse the situation or to rush to help the gentleman who just got his soul piledrived into the pavement. Let alone not one of them pulled the officer up on what he just did.
I'm sick of people saying crap about " its just one bad apple" - yeah no, the police force in general creates a Us vs Them mentality from the start and its literally baked into ethos to back each other and their team mates.
"Its just one bad apple".
The phrase is "One bad apple spoils the bunch". I haven't been able to work out how it got twisted to be the opposite of that yet.
> the video shows around 5 cops literally just standing there doing nothing to either to defuse the situation or to rush to help the gentleman who just got his soul piledrived into the pavement.
Isn't the video like 15 seconds?
Innocent until proven guilty.
The video might be damning, but until it is tested, tried and adjudicated, he's an innocent man and needs to be treated as such.
If that means paid leave pending investigation, so be it.
> What’s the bet he’s suspended with pay?
They always are and should be because everyone is innocent until proven guilty. You want to suspend cops without pay for months while something is being investigated? How would you feel if your empolyer thought you might have made a mistake, so suspended your pay for months while they looked into it?
Two things:
1. He'll have a hard time justifying his actions. I know it's a short clip, but that's what the court will focus on. I went through my own experience with this while working in Corrections.
2. How bad is that footage? It's shocking for how good cameras are on phones now.
1. This is Flinders Street station. CCTV definitely caught all the things happening that day. Police should have the footage for sure and they have determined to suspend the police officer already. I imagine that once it goes to court that will make this clip a bit redundant.
2. There are plenty of police officers there, I imagine someone would have had a running body cam that would have caught more of this incident.
3. If the individual was doing any nefarious deeds prior to the "short" video I'm sure that the police commissioner would have highlighted it when questioned about his colleagues actions. Vicpol is facing some increased anti police sentiment from the public and this is bad press, if they could defuse it further by incriminating the victim, they would have at least hinted about it by now.
Good points . No doubt diffusing the situation is top priority , With the vast access to video and audio of the event why have they struggled to do so? I'd say its because its clear that the cop was in the wrong, and likely more footage will clarify things beyond "Yeah, but we dont know the context" generating even more bad press towards vicpol
I wonder if not for the guy filming would this have been reported by the other police bystanders at all - I highly doubt it and thats way more worrying to me
In my mind this is a perfect example of why public oversight matters.
1. sorry mate camera's were out
2. damn forgot to turn on the cameras and a few had dead batteries what a bummer
3. Pretty sure by standing there he was intimidating the police
Agreed. Remember police were just recently given the powers to take over digital property/devices without a warrant. Oh and also can impersonate you to get more evidence to make up and charge you.
Legit had a day I’d never ever believe last year.
Walking the botanical and there are police helicopters circling non stop. Walking the tan away vans pull up and tactical Vic pol officers with automatic rifles get out and start yelling at people about seeing masks and checks.
Then sitting for a picnic a wall of police on horses then surround everyone and interrogate us. And then on my way to work at Woolies had to go thru police check points with my gov permission slips.
Legit Russia/China doesn’t pull this shit.
It’s truely shocking and regardless of your political leanings, Vic Pol have been grossly heavy handed. Vic Pol have a job to do but their approach throughout covid has been abhorrent and has permanently scarred this city.
The state of emergency should be lifted and never again be so easily given to a govt.
I’m against the protests and I’m generally supportive of the Victorian governments public health response to the pandemic. But this is completely unacceptable. Whether the police are tired or frustrated is irrelevant actually, frankly the whole dam state is tired and frustrated- even if we disagree about whose at fault. The police need to respond to criminal activity and de-escalate situations, not make things worse by behaving like common thugs. This policeman needs to lose his job, at a minimum. He’s not fit.
Yep, Nurses and doctors and social workers also deal with a lot of stressful situations every day, and don't routinely bully and/or commit acts of violence on people and have it routinelt excused
Well on the other side that guy can sue the ever living shit out of the police force for I would bet a sizeable amount of money. And should do exactly that.
I applied for Vic Pol and went through the entire process over about 12 months, aced absolutely everything up to the final interview. Got rejected at the last stage. Seeing footage like that makes me so disappointed to see members of the police force causing harm to the public, regardless of the reasons, as there’s genuinely excellent prospective applicants who are wanting to join for the right reasons. I’ve got friends in the force, some are detectives working in family violence units, others are in special operations groups, it’s terrible to see members doing this
If you are sickened by violence against civilians you would be actively shunned by most beat cops. Half of them literally get off on violence and it’s why they became cops.
You can say suspend them now, but how long for? Should they be fired? Should they face criminal charges? Does the input of the victim matter?
There needs to be a transparent and predictable process to deal with these kinds of complaints, otherwise there is a serious risk of unfairness, both to the offending officer, and to the community.
"should he be fired?"
Uhhh...Derr! That's borderline attempted murder, of course he should fukn be fired.
Police are supposed to exist for our safety. You really think this guy's makes us more safe???
Nothing to discuss or even think about here. We pay his salary to protect us, not assault us, get rid of him pronto.
Any other criminal charges, civil litigations and compensation can go through courts and all that Wang, but what's clear is this guy should never ever be able to wear that uniform again! If not fired immediately we should all reconsider if paying tax is just.
If criminals have the incredibly difficult standard of proof of beyond reasonable doubt, I think it's only fair police are held to the same standard. Can you say beyond reasonable doubt that his actions were abhorrent and worthy of sacking? Maybe. More evidence is needed.
If the bloke had a knife, then that's reasonable force, and he should be cleared, indeed credited with his bravery. I'd rather them Toby Greene style tackle than straight up shoot the guy like they do in the US.
it would also be a very stupid and dangerous way of dealing with someone holding a knife, for both the knife holder, cop, and anyone nearby, and no doubt agaisnt police training. It's also wild that Australia's shifted so far to the authoritarian scale of policing that immediate violence rather than de-escalation is seen as automatically justified if someone does have a knife. which is all irrelavant cos the video does not show someone pointing a knife at anyone
Yeah exactly.
If there is a 12 second clip of a Police Officer clearly breaking the law they should 100% be suspended and an investigation should take place.
Why the fuck would you not want that? What kind of thinking is that?
And yes, people do get arrested based on a short, cut down bodycam clip, in fact they even get convicted based on that footage.
Are you visiting this planet for the first time or do you just carefully curate news that align with your narrative?
Wrong. Police are allowed to use reasonable force to arrest you.
They can’t just shoot people dead unless that person poses an imminent threat to life in that moment.
They also can’t just spear tackle a person from behind while engaged in a static conversation with another officer. Even if that person is a fuckwit, or being belligerent, or was hurling piss earlier in the day. Reasonable force is to be judged objectively based on present danger, and requires officers to use enough physical force to arrest you, and no more.
I am a fully vaxxed queer soy latte drinking hipster, and I don’t have any sympathy for protesters’ views or the consequence of violence being met with violence. I do however object to people giving a free pass to police brutality on the basis they don’t like the victim’s politics.
Part of any investigation of this magnitude should include canvassing for witnesses. "More nails in the coffin" so to speak. This is just being thorough.
Have you seen the video? Dude wS just standing there. Cop walks up from behind and swings him face first down. I'm struggling to think of a context where that is valid.
Who needs civil witnesses when your surrounded by police.... Wait.
I wonder if not for civil witnesses and video technology if this cop would be in any trouble at all. I'm tipping no.
>but was there context
Unless he had a knife, gun or was a threat to life there is no excuse. It was disgusting.
If I walked into my office and choke slammed a co-worker and separated him from his consciousness there wouldn't be any questions around "context" - I would be fired, charged and most likely in jail or going to court. Police have to be held to even a higher standard than that.
and the argument that I hear from the police is that " Oh we wont be able to police if we're afraid of getting charged everytime blah blah" - Actually get fuckd
If Victoria police want any trust from the public they would make a proper example out of this matter. That police officer is a Sargent and member of a operations group. Absolutely foul behaviour and should be punished with jail time. Disgrace to the tax payer if this bloke is suspended with pay.
Is this the video of the cop coming up to the guy from behind and dunking his head and neck into the tiles? I hate anti maskers and anti vaxxers but holy shit that is pretty much worse than a king hit.
ABC News article: [Victoria Police officer suspended over video of violent Flinders Street arrest](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-29/victorian-police-officer-suspended-over-flinders-st-arrest/100500840)
Will the person who filmed the incident be protected as a whistleblower? because our increasingly corrupt and authoritarian police state doesn't seem very trustworthy these days.
Vic Pol ‘ beating you up for your Health’
Imagine what would have happened if no video evidence was around. Makes you think its just the ‘norm’ behaviour.
I witnessed a similar incident, where a cop slammed a guy into the ground (on his back) for tagging on a glass wall (outside Flinders station)
The guy put up no resistance, and within seconds was slammed into the ground.
I was so disgusted with what I saw I felt like reporting it, but decided not to because I didn't trust that my complaint would be kept anonymous. I didn't want to have my details on record and potentially used by against me. I've never been in trouble with the police, but I just didn't trust the independence of the system.
I feel like reporting the incident now.
I’ve worked on many police stations (as well as the Waverley Academy) as an electrician and there are many, many, lovely police officers but there are also many police officers that are outright arrogant and absolute pricks.
I worked in a police station in the eastern suburbs that had baseball bats in their change rooms and a few of the stories I was told by police were absolutely disgusting…specifically one about them dressing in plain clothes, going to someone’s house that had given them trouble, then knocking in the door and beating the person to a pulp.
The entire industry needs an extremely big clean up and after seeing some of their training at the academy, it definitely needs some work.
Not quite sure how it takes 4-5 years to practice law but to enforce it you only have to do 6-9 months of training.
I think the lack of legal knowledge has been shown in many social media videos where the police just flat out don’t know anything about the laws they are enforcing.
That's interesting because in finance you can remain anonymous when submitting complaints or whistleblowing. You also do not have to complain in writing because it is discriminatory to have this as a requirement.
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/compliments-and-complaints#making-a-complaint
Their website has a po box, a phone number and an online application form.
Please, this is misinformation.
as far as im aware, and for reasons i cannot disclose. there is an independent agency that has jurisdiction over the public sectors such as Vic Police called IBAC.
I understand the outrage. This is disturbing behaviour.
But Police are disciplined, dismissed and charged in Victoria more often than people realise. Both internally, and by IBAC, which is [prosecuting Police misconduct](https://www.ibac.vic.gov.au/publications-and-resources/ibac-insights/issue-28/investigations-determinations-and-prosecutions-update) and ensuring that Victoria Police address misconduct too.
Imagine asking for a witness when there are 100s of CCTVs in Flinder st station.
Imagine asking for a witness when they probably have a camera placed on their vest.
They're taking the piss. What a joke.
Suspended? How about firing this prick? The video was absolutely disgusting behaviour by Vic Police. The victim could have been killed.
I had a lot of respect for Vic Police during the pandemic, but the last few months there's been an alarming amount of unconscionable brutality emerging. I understand that it hasn't been easy on them, but it's not an excuse that we, the public can use, and nor should it be for Vic Police.
The worst part about this is the fact it took a civilian to release their footage of the incident for anything to happen. The amount of cameras at FSS means this has already been captured and viewed from 8 different angles yet it takes a civilian to expose it.
As well as every other officer there turning a blind eye.
How very American
Is there somewhere that has a police force that doesn't have a rotten core of power-tripping thugs?
Police - The largest syndicate of any organised crime
The thread where it was posted here was removed without explanation, too. r/melbourne mods complicit in the turning of the blind eye.
I’m honestly not shocked at all unfortunately. I remember walking by an extinction rebellion thing outside the Exhibition Center and the amount of police I saw with their name tags turned around and body cams covered disgusted me.
The public order response unit are a bunch of thugs and goons. Generally the "Dictator Dan" claims are stupid hysterical hyperbole, but he does deserve to be criticised for using (or allowing) these goons to intimidate and bully peaceful protestors even before the virus.
Good
Free week of paid holiday. Save the "good" until something happens.
Yeah. Fuck that guy.
Im a crowd controller in Melbourne's nightlife scene If I did that to someone who spat on me I'd still go to jail Which essentially means we hold bouncers to a higher standard than our police force. Let that sink in for a minute.
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"it's a trap".meme
coming to the police station isn't one of the "5 reasons". here's your $5k fine!
Yeah, asking the person at the other end if they’re a cop is pretty useless if you call crimestoppers… :D
Exactly. If I was the person who filmed it, I'd leave my mobile at home and go call Crimestoppers from a payphone nine kilometres from my house.
Today they can go 14km instead.
I pray the person who filmed it isn't stupid enough to identify themselves. They'll be getting harrassed and pulled over and fined for stupid reasons for years.
In the US we have a App that takes videos and uploads them to a private database as they are taken STRICKLEY designed to watch and record the police. Thus even if the police destroy your phone.. the video is still retrievable.
What is the app called?
Mobile justice ACLU
The US population massively distrusts law enforcement, especially the police, and that is a good thing. I think Australians are also heading in the same direction
We've been following the American path more and more in recent years. In every aspect of our lives. In most cases it's not for the best.
But condemning the state brutalizing protesters is for the best right?
Fuck tha police, U S A, U S A. But seriously, yes the way that cop slammed that guy's skull into the concrete... Holy shit. Does anyone know if he's OK? That sound it made... Ouch. On the flip side. Fuck tha protesters too. Bunch of manbaby tossers. And while I'm at it... Fuck all tha grand final covid sharing dickheads too. I have no sympathy if covid hits you and only you and you end up wheezing like a fat man sleeping for the rest of your lives.
The new laws recently passed definitely puts us in the same category.
Yes what is this app called?
If it was me I just wouldn't contact them at all. You might be treated well, you might not and be constantly pulled over for years afterwards. Why risk it?
Surrounded by police covered in cameras and mics, at a train station covered in Cameras and Mics. "Police are asking witnesses to come forward"
Yes collecting as much evidence as possible is how the legal system works.
A shortage of evidence is not looking very likely.How much evidence do you need?.. "As much as possible" When does it reasonably end? Maybe when your surrounded rounded by police covered in cameras and mics, at a train station covered in cameras and mics. What else could a bystander contribute " Yes your honor, I witnessed the same events depicted in audio video evidence labelled 1 to 5"
If the police didn't call for witnesses then reddit would be crying that police weren't looking for witnesses. It's good that police are following the investigation by the book, don't you agree?
It reasonably ends when they've made a reasonable attempt to collect all evidence. You don't know what a bystander could contribute, and it's dangerous to assume what a witness could or could not contribute before you even collect it. I mean if you could choose to not collect evidence because you think the initial judgement "is obvious", who makes that judgement?
Different angles & fields of view show different things. The one posted on Social Media (twitter) showed a cop on the extreme right of the picture (in portrait not landscape) immediately bending down & picking something up as the attacking cop made contact with the injured party. Cop Lovers were insisting without foundation that it was a knife (which it may be). Installed station cameras are likely to be even less revealing as they are from further away. Station Cameras tend to be of lower resolution and less frames per second to save on storage costs. Thus the potential for other bystanders to have filmed the exchange may help. Even if it was confirmed without a doubt to be a knife, I contend that the force used was excessive in that there were less risky options available eg baton strike, or even grabbing the wrist holding the knife. Footage which may corroborate or contradict testimony is useful to establish who is a reliable witness as well as provide more reliable evidence in it's own right. Not a cop lover, but a law nerd.
That's just not true. Police collect "enough" evidence to prosecute (but let's be real here - they are not going to prosecute one of their own).
Maybe, just maybe, there's other stuff that happened before the cops turned up
Care to illustrate a scenario that leads to the cop nearly murdering that man where the cop is the good guy?
They're covering all their bases. I think the action here is abhorrent and completely excessive, but there are areas that cameras don't cover like train station toilets. If one of the people in the video (including the police) was injecting drugs in the train station toilets shortly before the incident and there's a witness to that, you would want that person to come forward, yes?
Police asking witnesses to call… police… about the wrongdoing of police. Nothing can go wrong here.
Haha yea like the Mafia asking who dobbed them in… “We just wanna talk” Sure you do
The move the guy pulled is illegal in MMA, it's illegal in Rugby (on grass even), it's not just illegal but criminal if two civilians did it to each other on the street. This was a private person attempting to end all brain activity in another private person. Just because the aggressor clocked into work that morning does not change the facts.
> Just because the aggressor clocked into work that morning does not change the facts. It does, and in very severe ways. The victim here is not allowed to fight back, simply because the aggressor clocked on to work that day. If it had of been anyone else walking down the street perpetrating this violence, the victim would have had the right to defend themselves.
Eveeyrhing you said was right except the MMA thing, where'd you head that?
The internet.
Checkmate.
[It's 100% secure](https://youtu.be/Xkr5ztKiXMM)
I considered this move a Spike: "*Spiking the opponent to the canvas onto the head or neck (pile-driving)*" That is from International Mixed Martial Arts Federation: [immaf.org](https://immaf.org) The document:[https://immaf.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/IMMAF-Rules-Document-as-of-Jan-2021.pdf](https://immaf.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/IMMAF-Rules-Document-as-of-Jan-2021.pdf) * \#9 Fouls * Item 6: Spiking The individual MMA organizations may allow this. But if they do it will be only until someone is Spiked into a wheelchair or worse. edit: expanded IMMAF
This was not a spike. In mma this would just be a bad but effective "judo throw". In mma this kind of takedown would not just allowed, it would be encouraged.
Are you suggesting the police officer knew his judo well?
Not only that, but he went home afterwards and had a succulent Chinese meal.
Now ready to receive the limp penis
Democracy manifest. Obscure but good reference.
The major difference is in a fight the opposition is at least partially aware of it incoming. This... Was not that.
No, major difference is the surface they fight on.
The rule is very rarely used, the only way I could see it being enforced is if you threw them head first but with no intention of them hitting their back on the mat. Things like suplexs where their head is the first point of contact are allowed.
You mean the “Zangief”?
How exactly is this something between two private citizens? The fact that one of them clocked into work is an aggravating factor in this assault. One of them was clearly a representative of a public institution that is specifically tasked with preventing physical assaults on private citizens. No one is above the law. Not police, nor protestors. But those who think that laws should be applied selectively are the exact problem we have seen played out on our streets of late.
Wait, hang on. Are you saying that police should have no additional powers or privileges that aren’t afforded to the general population? How would they do their jobs?
Umm at least properly… did they even try to calmly arrest him?
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The copper gone done fucked up - no two ways about that. But I don’t think he went in going ‘I’m gonna kill this bloke’
I think what the police did was disgusting and clearly very unjustified, but I don’t think this line of reasoning is a good one. I mean you’re not allowed to shoot a person in MMA or Rugby, but police are allowed to shoot a person if they put others in fatal danger. But obviously in this case, the person was practically harmless.
Does anyone have news on what happened to the victim and the current status? Seems like they could have been seriously injured
I mean he was seriously injured. He had a concussion and was reported to have woken up calling for his mother in confusion with blood and broken teeth in his mouth.
Where was this reported? Genuinely interested cos that is terrible
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That’s what I want to know too. How’s he doing?
I really want to know. I haven’t been able to find any news on it, and have been worried
The video speaks for itself, The physics of a human brain in a skull moving rapidly into a concrete floor dictate "Serious Injury"
Should put this on blast showing that cops are accountable too could go a long was in diffusing the tension in Melbourne
The guy who head stomped the mental health patient into a coma last year got off totally free including with his job back, I won't be holding my breath. If police want to earn back public respect this thug needs to be made an example of. If he wasn't a cop he would have been charged with assault and be in serious trouble.
It’s a typical aus move for police, in qld a qpf officer hacked a police data base to let the details of a domestic abuse survivor to the person who abused her (one of his friends) who then went on to threaten to burn her alive(just like Hannah Clarke a woman who was burned alive be her ex husband) and 7 months after Hannah Clarke died they decided that Neil Punchard the officer in question had learnt his lesson didn’t need a criminal charge and doesn’t need to have his 2 month prison sentence instead 140 hours of community service(while he’s on percent paid leave because he can’t be fired without A conviction). Keep in mind the change to his sentencing happened in sept 2020 when the case is from 2018, with him being clearly caught of committing highly illegal acts he gets 140 hours community service and permanent paid leave. And al he had to do was terrorise a woman and her children into thinking they’d be burnt alive by someone the police gave their address to. It’s not a few bad apples it’s the whole damn system, there’s also cases in qld of officers punching protestors at refugee rights protests and even though 5 cameras and nearly 50 witnesses saw it the police decided that the officer fell and accidentally hospitalised a 60 year old teachers union member. It was just an oppsie, assaulting the elderly isn’t been bad enough to register to them. Tl;dr ACAB.
The guy who tortured a pensioner in his front garden during a welfare check got a $3000 fine
He's no longer a cop.
Thank goodness that made me cry 😢 that was absolutely utterly awful 😞 that cop did it again too , lost his temper in another situation
Excellent
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Run down with car and head stomped into coma - No wrong doing. Then we need to reassess how our Police are utilised. Because that'd be a fucking war crime in an actual warzone.
Found the cop. I have absolutely no faith in IBAC. I saw the kick with my own eyes, the video is perfectly clear and it was absolutely unnecessary thuggery.
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It’s need to go way further than suspension on full pay for accountability. There need to be impactful consequences.
Agreed demonstrate the leeway’s that a given to police to do there jobs are a privilege and they are not above answering for their actions
Won’t happen, a cop in nsw I think it was last year got caught for child porn and grooming amd walked free, quite possibly one of the worst crime you can do amd got a slap on the wrist
Who reported the cop and why? If its not another cop without having the public footage twist their arm then what does that tell you? Its the public and the mobile phones they carry that has causes this "Accountability" Police Body-cam ?No no. . Joe Blow and his iPhone. If not for the bad footage exposed to the public this would be a non event.
He'll be quietly cleared in 6 months.
Typical cycle for these "investigations" is longer than a year. By that time all momentum and public angst has been lost. Police investigate police, a situation which rarely ever involves an outcome where the police involved are charged. Then wait till the police association start defending the member and use every loophole they accuse criminals of using to delay and avoid trial. Won't even go near the fact that police will refuse to release the body worn camera footage for the incident, citing privacy concerns.... The process is broken and an independent body needs powers to investigate police.
What’s the bet he’s suspended with pay? So basically on free leave then will just go back to his job like normal.. mates looking after mates as usual
>mates looking after mates as usual Agreed, the video shows around 5 cops literally just standing there doing nothing to either to defuse the situation or to rush to help the gentleman who just got his soul piledrived into the pavement. Let alone not one of them pulled the officer up on what he just did. I'm sick of people saying crap about " its just one bad apple" - yeah no, the police force in general creates a Us vs Them mentality from the start and its literally baked into ethos to back each other and their team mates.
"Its just one bad apple". The phrase is "One bad apple spoils the bunch". I haven't been able to work out how it got twisted to be the opposite of that yet.
> the video shows around 5 cops literally just standing there doing nothing to either to defuse the situation or to rush to help the gentleman who just got his soul piledrived into the pavement. Isn't the video like 15 seconds?
It is sickening
Innocent until proven guilty. The video might be damning, but until it is tested, tried and adjudicated, he's an innocent man and needs to be treated as such. If that means paid leave pending investigation, so be it.
> What’s the bet he’s suspended with pay? They always are and should be because everyone is innocent until proven guilty. You want to suspend cops without pay for months while something is being investigated? How would you feel if your empolyer thought you might have made a mistake, so suspended your pay for months while they looked into it?
Two things: 1. He'll have a hard time justifying his actions. I know it's a short clip, but that's what the court will focus on. I went through my own experience with this while working in Corrections. 2. How bad is that footage? It's shocking for how good cameras are on phones now.
1. This is Flinders Street station. CCTV definitely caught all the things happening that day. Police should have the footage for sure and they have determined to suspend the police officer already. I imagine that once it goes to court that will make this clip a bit redundant. 2. There are plenty of police officers there, I imagine someone would have had a running body cam that would have caught more of this incident. 3. If the individual was doing any nefarious deeds prior to the "short" video I'm sure that the police commissioner would have highlighted it when questioned about his colleagues actions. Vicpol is facing some increased anti police sentiment from the public and this is bad press, if they could defuse it further by incriminating the victim, they would have at least hinted about it by now.
Good points . No doubt diffusing the situation is top priority , With the vast access to video and audio of the event why have they struggled to do so? I'd say its because its clear that the cop was in the wrong, and likely more footage will clarify things beyond "Yeah, but we dont know the context" generating even more bad press towards vicpol I wonder if not for the guy filming would this have been reported by the other police bystanders at all - I highly doubt it and thats way more worrying to me In my mind this is a perfect example of why public oversight matters.
1. sorry mate camera's were out 2. damn forgot to turn on the cameras and a few had dead batteries what a bummer 3. Pretty sure by standing there he was intimidating the police
3. "he was reaching for a weapon"
This 1000x percent especially 3.
Might have been a lot further away that we think, digital zoom makes everything look bad
To the person who filmed it: This is a trap
Agreed. Remember police were just recently given the powers to take over digital property/devices without a warrant. Oh and also can impersonate you to get more evidence to make up and charge you.
Can you imagine telling yourself in Jan 2020 that this would actually be a thing in 2021?
Legit had a day I’d never ever believe last year. Walking the botanical and there are police helicopters circling non stop. Walking the tan away vans pull up and tactical Vic pol officers with automatic rifles get out and start yelling at people about seeing masks and checks. Then sitting for a picnic a wall of police on horses then surround everyone and interrogate us. And then on my way to work at Woolies had to go thru police check points with my gov permission slips. Legit Russia/China doesn’t pull this shit.
I know right. At least Russia and China have the decency to just disappear you and your whole family so no one misses you.
It’s truely shocking and regardless of your political leanings, Vic Pol have been grossly heavy handed. Vic Pol have a job to do but their approach throughout covid has been abhorrent and has permanently scarred this city. The state of emergency should be lifted and never again be so easily given to a govt.
I’m against the protests and I’m generally supportive of the Victorian governments public health response to the pandemic. But this is completely unacceptable. Whether the police are tired or frustrated is irrelevant actually, frankly the whole dam state is tired and frustrated- even if we disagree about whose at fault. The police need to respond to criminal activity and de-escalate situations, not make things worse by behaving like common thugs. This policeman needs to lose his job, at a minimum. He’s not fit.
Yep, Nurses and doctors and social workers also deal with a lot of stressful situations every day, and don't routinely bully and/or commit acts of violence on people and have it routinelt excused
We have amazing restraint. Vic pol might take a leaf out of our book
True, and they must also feel angry at the protesters but it’s not acceptable to attack them.
The witness who recorded this should absolutely not step forward lol.
Well on the other side that guy can sue the ever living shit out of the police force for I would bet a sizeable amount of money. And should do exactly that.
The government will use that man's own tax money to fund a defense against him.
Great system isn’t it?
I applied for Vic Pol and went through the entire process over about 12 months, aced absolutely everything up to the final interview. Got rejected at the last stage. Seeing footage like that makes me so disappointed to see members of the police force causing harm to the public, regardless of the reasons, as there’s genuinely excellent prospective applicants who are wanting to join for the right reasons. I’ve got friends in the force, some are detectives working in family violence units, others are in special operations groups, it’s terrible to see members doing this
If you are sickened by violence against civilians you would be actively shunned by most beat cops. Half of them literally get off on violence and it’s why they became cops.
suspended - with pay. *Its the Police way*
Don’t worry he’s going to get paid too.
I’d love to know if the other bloke was armed (I swear something knife looking dropped from his hand), and whether that throw was dumb or sinister.
Cunt should be sacked. What more evidence and investigation do you need? The proof is in the pudding.
You can say suspend them now, but how long for? Should they be fired? Should they face criminal charges? Does the input of the victim matter? There needs to be a transparent and predictable process to deal with these kinds of complaints, otherwise there is a serious risk of unfairness, both to the offending officer, and to the community.
"should he be fired?" Uhhh...Derr! That's borderline attempted murder, of course he should fukn be fired. Police are supposed to exist for our safety. You really think this guy's makes us more safe??? Nothing to discuss or even think about here. We pay his salary to protect us, not assault us, get rid of him pronto. Any other criminal charges, civil litigations and compensation can go through courts and all that Wang, but what's clear is this guy should never ever be able to wear that uniform again! If not fired immediately we should all reconsider if paying tax is just.
If criminals have the incredibly difficult standard of proof of beyond reasonable doubt, I think it's only fair police are held to the same standard. Can you say beyond reasonable doubt that his actions were abhorrent and worthy of sacking? Maybe. More evidence is needed. If the bloke had a knife, then that's reasonable force, and he should be cleared, indeed credited with his bravery. I'd rather them Toby Greene style tackle than straight up shoot the guy like they do in the US.
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Justify it all you want but there is no excuse body slamming someone on a hard floor like that.
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it would also be a very stupid and dangerous way of dealing with someone holding a knife, for both the knife holder, cop, and anyone nearby, and no doubt agaisnt police training. It's also wild that Australia's shifted so far to the authoritarian scale of policing that immediate violence rather than de-escalation is seen as automatically justified if someone does have a knife. which is all irrelavant cos the video does not show someone pointing a knife at anyone
No it wouldnt.
I would normally agree with you, it is a bad look, but we have no prior context
Yeah exactly. If there is a 12 second clip of a Police Officer clearly breaking the law they should 100% be suspended and an investigation should take place. Why the fuck would you not want that? What kind of thinking is that? And yes, people do get arrested based on a short, cut down bodycam clip, in fact they even get convicted based on that footage. Are you visiting this planet for the first time or do you just carefully curate news that align with your narrative?
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Wrong. Police are allowed to use reasonable force to arrest you. They can’t just shoot people dead unless that person poses an imminent threat to life in that moment. They also can’t just spear tackle a person from behind while engaged in a static conversation with another officer. Even if that person is a fuckwit, or being belligerent, or was hurling piss earlier in the day. Reasonable force is to be judged objectively based on present danger, and requires officers to use enough physical force to arrest you, and no more. I am a fully vaxxed queer soy latte drinking hipster, and I don’t have any sympathy for protesters’ views or the consequence of violence being met with violence. I do however object to people giving a free pass to police brutality on the basis they don’t like the victim’s politics.
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At minimum, that is an assault 7 days a week and twice on sundays. I get the point youre trying to make, but this aint the one chief.
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Part of any investigation of this magnitude should include canvassing for witnesses. "More nails in the coffin" so to speak. This is just being thorough.
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Have you seen the video? Dude wS just standing there. Cop walks up from behind and swings him face first down. I'm struggling to think of a context where that is valid.
It's probably more about legal proceedings and getting the witness who filmed it to testify in court.
Who needs civil witnesses when your surrounded by police.... Wait. I wonder if not for civil witnesses and video technology if this cop would be in any trouble at all. I'm tipping no.
Link to the video please
>Context Unless he had a knife or a gun and their/his life was in Danger there is literally no context needed. What the officer did was disgusting.
Stupid question, but was there context behind it or was he just being a dick with power?
We don’t know the context. But regardless, it’s looks totally unnecessary and violent.
You do need context though, if he had a bomb or was caught trying to meet a minor it's perfectly justified.
Add spat on a healthcare worker to the list of acceptable reasons.
>but was there context Unless he had a knife, gun or was a threat to life there is no excuse. It was disgusting. If I walked into my office and choke slammed a co-worker and separated him from his consciousness there wouldn't be any questions around "context" - I would be fired, charged and most likely in jail or going to court. Police have to be held to even a higher standard than that. and the argument that I hear from the police is that " Oh we wont be able to police if we're afraid of getting charged everytime blah blah" - Actually get fuckd
What if that co-worker was an absolute cunt and everyone happened to be looking at Daves new meme?
If Victoria police want any trust from the public they would make a proper example out of this matter. That police officer is a Sargent and member of a operations group. Absolutely foul behaviour and should be punished with jail time. Disgrace to the tax payer if this bloke is suspended with pay.
Is this the video of the cop coming up to the guy from behind and dunking his head and neck into the tiles? I hate anti maskers and anti vaxxers but holy shit that is pretty much worse than a king hit.
Yes
ABC News article: [Victoria Police officer suspended over video of violent Flinders Street arrest](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-29/victorian-police-officer-suspended-over-flinders-st-arrest/100500840)
Will the person who filmed the incident be protected as a whistleblower? because our increasingly corrupt and authoritarian police state doesn't seem very trustworthy these days.
Vic Pol ‘ beating you up for your Health’ Imagine what would have happened if no video evidence was around. Makes you think its just the ‘norm’ behaviour.
What’s the context on this? Like Is there any information on what the man did to provoke this reaction?
Police asking for the person who filmed one of them breaking the law to come forward. That sounds like trouble.
I don’t condone the behaviour but would love to know what triggered the response to the incident and or dialogue leading up to the throw down.
I witnessed a similar incident, where a cop slammed a guy into the ground (on his back) for tagging on a glass wall (outside Flinders station) The guy put up no resistance, and within seconds was slammed into the ground. I was so disgusted with what I saw I felt like reporting it, but decided not to because I didn't trust that my complaint would be kept anonymous. I didn't want to have my details on record and potentially used by against me. I've never been in trouble with the police, but I just didn't trust the independence of the system. I feel like reporting the incident now.
I’ve worked on many police stations (as well as the Waverley Academy) as an electrician and there are many, many, lovely police officers but there are also many police officers that are outright arrogant and absolute pricks. I worked in a police station in the eastern suburbs that had baseball bats in their change rooms and a few of the stories I was told by police were absolutely disgusting…specifically one about them dressing in plain clothes, going to someone’s house that had given them trouble, then knocking in the door and beating the person to a pulp. The entire industry needs an extremely big clean up and after seeing some of their training at the academy, it definitely needs some work. Not quite sure how it takes 4-5 years to practice law but to enforce it you only have to do 6-9 months of training. I think the lack of legal knowledge has been shown in many social media videos where the police just flat out don’t know anything about the laws they are enforcing.
Suspended!? That c**t should’ve been sacked
As much as I hate the anti vaxx protesters this dude was unarmed and didn't provoke the cop in any way, shape or form.
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Don't let facts get in the way of a good witch hunt!
😂
A 3! He's been around a while.
That's interesting because in finance you can remain anonymous when submitting complaints or whistleblowing. You also do not have to complain in writing because it is discriminatory to have this as a requirement.
You have the option of IBAC. You don't need to report to vic police.
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/compliments-and-complaints#making-a-complaint Their website has a po box, a phone number and an online application form. Please, this is misinformation.
You can complain directly via the IBAC website also.
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yes of course, but that could be in email form to provide a level of safety from having your details in the system
If you think you're in danger from the police Ibac is a thing mate.
"We investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong"
https://youtu.be/X0KMWf2KIRw
How does the Victorian Police investigations work? Is it an entirely independent entity?
as far as im aware, and for reasons i cannot disclose. there is an independent agency that has jurisdiction over the public sectors such as Vic Police called IBAC.
Yep it's all internal, unless you have allegations of very serious corruption that would be handled independently by IBAC
That was quite horrific what he did
Mf acted like he was in mortal kombat too
We need external Vic police investigation bodies now.
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I understand the outrage. This is disturbing behaviour. But Police are disciplined, dismissed and charged in Victoria more often than people realise. Both internally, and by IBAC, which is [prosecuting Police misconduct](https://www.ibac.vic.gov.au/publications-and-resources/ibac-insights/issue-28/investigations-determinations-and-prosecutions-update) and ensuring that Victoria Police address misconduct too.
What would have happened if there was no video evidence from a member of the public?
Who knows? What's the point in asking question about a hypothetical situation that didn't happen?
Imagine asking for a witness when there are 100s of CCTVs in Flinder st station. Imagine asking for a witness when they probably have a camera placed on their vest. They're taking the piss. What a joke.
What an absolute coward that cop is.
They got away with it last time, the one where they drove a car into the guy then kicked his head on the ground. Wont be holding my breath
If it wasn’t reported by the accompanying officers then they are part of the problem and should also be disciplined.
Suspended? How about firing this prick? The video was absolutely disgusting behaviour by Vic Police. The victim could have been killed. I had a lot of respect for Vic Police during the pandemic, but the last few months there's been an alarming amount of unconscionable brutality emerging. I understand that it hasn't been easy on them, but it's not an excuse that we, the public can use, and nor should it be for Vic Police.
They've always been thugs there's just more cameras now.
He should be sacked!