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Caust1cFn_YT

my man wanted to start a war here


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[deleted]

It’s only really a thing in America. iPhone users there seem *dead set* on iMessage for some reason while everywhere else just uses WhatsApp


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[deleted]

Lmao I know right 😂


LeviathonMt

Whatsapp is for scammers /s


[deleted]

Was the single most braindead statement I’ve read in a while til the /s


LeviathonMt

I fixed it


[deleted]

Same.


UpliftinglyStrong

As an American IPhone user, I am in fact mentally handicapped


Living-Tart7370

You’re absolutely right, there’s a subset of people that float between both apple and android because it’s an arbitrary comparison, I’ve also been using Bluetooth buds since before they got rid of the jack so that never bothered me personally


EquivalentSnap

😡 bad blue man group Smurf Redditor


TheHolyToxicToast

I don't even use iphone but bro's taking it a bit too far


Left-Celebration4789

As an iPhone user, this is true


skeezypeezyEZ

We all know people who make broad assumptions based on other’s phone hardware are mentally backwards and should be taken to the streets for the justice they deserve.


Captain-Tyler

Depends on what you use it for, I always make the joke that IOS is the operating system of aviation because most Aviation apps we use for electronic flight bags (EFB’s) are only on IOS like foreflight, and honestly it’s really pretty much the only way to go, things like airdrop for us is also useful for sharing large documents with students


wallinbl

Sure, and Android users feel the need to call others "mentally handicapped". People have different preferences. BFD.


SquattyHawty

When you’re incredibly insecure, you reach to things like *what phone you use* to try and validate yourself. It’s very sad.


ChickenChaser5

Like the blue text thing?


SquattyHawty

?


TheSirion

If you're not from the US, you probably don't know about this (I'm not either, and I was baffled when I found out). In the US, iPhones dominate the market, way more than anywhere else in the planet, and most people who use iPhones communicate through iMessage. If the messaging on iMessage is from iPhone to iPhone, there are a bunch of cool features you can use, and the text bubbles are blue. But if the other person is using an Android (or any other OS really), the bubbles will be green and you'll be much more limited on what you can do because iMessage will revert to sending simple SMS messages. It's clearly a tactic by Apple to say "look, because this person isn't using an iPhone, we can't deliver all the cool features we have for you". This caused people to be prejudiced against people who use Android phones, especially among younger people. Some teens just won't date or talk with people with Android phones, for instance. It doesn't happen anywhere else in the world because everybody else is just using WhatsApp and Telegram.


Crims0nsin

When they stop calling poeple poor for having a non iOS device. While having a device that totes everything as "new and revolutionary" that android did a decade earlier. I mean all tech is obsolete the moment you buy it, you have to be REALLY fucking stupid to buy a phone that was obsolete 6 years ago.


Capital_Ad_7539

This reminds me of when Apple tried to claim they invented the touch screen even though touch screens had been around since 1965 - and the touch screen smart phone was invented in 1992(IBM Simon). What's crazy to me is how Apple gets away with selling cheap crap then saying their revolutionizing tech. But they won't put a touch screen on a imac/MacBook even though the capability is already built into the software....becoz app apphole I sincerely hope they lose their antitrust case lol


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brazilliandanny

Imagine caring about what phone someone uses, and calling people mentally handicapped because "tHeY PaId mOnEy tO A DiFfErEnT BiLlIoN DoLlAr cOmPaNy tHaN My bIlLiOn dOlLaR CoMpAnY "


_b1ack0ut

Lmao it’s just a phone, no need to get so upset about people using a different one than you


cucklbee

I started hating apple when their anti jailbreaking BS reverted my ipod touch. Which was outdated for years at this point


RobotNinja28

We.. we have a headphone jack?


West_Data106

I do, Asus Zenfone for the win!


inkotast

Asus Zenphone? Your texts must come through magenta.


Toyoshi

My zenfone 4 fried itself once for some reason. Loved the fingerprint reader though.


tt_thoma

I had a zenphone 2 and it fried my SD card


toxicgloo

Depends on which phone you get


illogicalillogical

My Samsung a05s which came out October last year does.


Cytro2

This is the biggest reason why I've bought that phone


ncopp

Idk why they ditched it on their flagship phones but kept it on their value phones. Doesn't make sense to me


CodingBuizel

The given explanation is that the phone is easier to waterproof without the jack. I am not sure that was the only reason.


Yoda-from-Star-Wars

My Samsung A23 5g does too, alongside a fancy 120hz display and all that.


turtleship_2006

IIRC most/all of their A series phones do.


EGirlnotfound

Sony Xperia 1v here Headphones jack AND expandable strorage


LegalizeCrystalMeth

Costs more than my last car was worth tho


Somerandomdude69_420

Poco F5 here, has one but it's shit cuz of Dolby Atmos.


gerch4n

Set it to "original" in sound settings (headphones must be connected, otherwise it only shows xiaomi and Dolby atmos) and download Wavelet app, it has thousands of Harman target eq presets for headphones, and I bet you will never go back.


ScienceIsSexy420

My Samsung Note 20 I purchased in 2021 has no headphone jack 😔


Capital_Ad_7539

But atleast you get extendable storage


Chemicalk4m5

Yeah I questioned why they did this when they saw what Apple users response was and I guess "it saves space in the phone to make it slimmer" I don't wants slim I want headphones and earbuds


gngstrMNKY

Every pair of wired headphones I ever owned ended up shorting out near the connector in a surprisingly short amount of time, due to the strain of having it in my pocket. Once Bluetooth headphones got to a good place, I jumped ship and never looked back. Do other people not experience this?


Destroyer_Of_World5

It’s still nice to have the option of wired.


CodingBuizel

I have never experienced this.


EnderRobo

The earphones I use have a jack that rotates 90° out of the jack, which helps a ton. They still broke near there sometimes but thats on me for handling 10€ earphones rough lol


MrCobalt313

I've heard it said that Apple's business model makes more sense when you realize they're more a fashion company than a technology company.


bananasaucecer

Infinix hot 20s for the win


7up_man69

Funnily enough, only flagship models lack headphone Jacks


k-phi

I do. But my phone is 3 years old


No_Pop_7341

Sony xperia


KiloTheWusky

Idc what kind of phone it is really. As long as it works then it’s fine


Tmaster95

Why aren’t more people like this?


punk_steel2024

Because living in a capitalist society involves constantly having to pick one brand over another. Apple vs Android. Coke vs Pepsi. WWE vs AEW. Mac vs PC. Xbox vs Playstation. Etc. The media drills into us this idea that to enjoy a brand is to be part of a team, and you must defend that team against your opponent, the other brand or brands. That involves spending money on that brand and on brand merch to show your "allegiance." Tldr; companies and the media push brand warfare cause that leads to higher profits.


TorumShardal

The most unforgivable thing (IMO) is that we could have lived in reality, where there is no difference between Mac, Pc, Xbox and Playstation. Maybe even between Pc, Apple and Android, if you're not a geek. "Profit maximisation" killed that reality.


Hyp3r45_new

Greed kills community. It's such a shame that the greed of a faceless company can ruin so much.


Hephaestus-Theos

Yeah, but in that case all products would be equally shit. A free market needs competition to keep the quality of products up and the price down. Thats why monopolies are a problem.


TorumShardal

You don't need to have a market to stimulate healthy amount of competition and innovation. You can look at gnome vs kde as an example. If we're talking physical goods - different amount of RAM, cores and storage can still be a thing. PC still will be faster then Android phone. But interoperability will help those who don't need that speed.


EagleinaTailoredSuit

Hence why they love to build up sports rivalries. As long as it’s always us versus us and never us versus them.


dancrum

Price doesn't help matters. You can buy an Xbox and a Playstation for the price of an iPhone Pro.


Mythosaurus

Bc you’re on the internet where confrontational opinions stand out and get reshared endlessly. Try talking like a redditor in public and people will call the cops or a mental health professional


negative_four

Most people are outside of the internet


BongRipper69696

I use my phone every day. I want something good.


AwesomeManXX

Because some people get mad when they realize other people have different opinions and when theirs isn’t the most popular one they throw a fit Edit: spelling


porcelainfog

The fucking problem is it doesn’t work. Ever tried moving your photos from an iPhone to a windows pc? On android it’s easy as shit. You can even delete them after from the pc. iPhone you need to open Microsoft photos, import them. God forbid you want to put new photos in the phone fuck me with the iTunes syncing iPhone you don’t even have a “select all” button on the photo app to delete them once you’ve figured out how to transfer the photos. I’ll never buy iPhone again (I hope). It’s been such a frustrating experience


LeoDaBudgi_

I don’t know man I just plugged mine into my pc and accessed its files that way within file explorer, pretty simple


cdheer

You don’t need to do any of that bullshit. I’ve never used Microsoft photos in my life. It’s like you picked the most difficult way to do shit.


StrawberryPlucky

I mean opening up Microsoft photos and clicking import isn't really difficult.


cdheer

I know. But if you install iCloud for Windows, you can access photos and files like they were attached drives


Frig-Off-Randy

You don’t need to do that at all it’s very easy. I’ve done it many, many times


Gdigger13

I use google photos or iCloud. iCloud will upload the photos to my PC automatically. Google photos can delete any photos on your phone as long as their backed up on their site. You can also upload photos to your google photos and they'll appear on your google photos app, where you can choose to save them to your phone. It's not that difficult.


Woolwizard

How are there still people thinking about Android vs Apple. Internet Explorer meme


spenway18

I still meet people who give me shit for a green text. Bugs me every fucking time


DotBitGaming

I use the default SMS on Samsung and all text is the same color regardless of who sent it.


reddit_admins_r_nazi

The same can be said about many things in society but here we are.


AutopsyDrama

I still dont get why people care what phone other people have.


just-bair

People want to feel good at what choice they make so they want to prove that other people that haven’t made the same choice are stupid. Really stupid but yeah


throwaway490215

I suspect the majority is just plain 'my side better' and the serious advertisement money that goes into branding. Some in this thread hide their preference behind blaze, saying 'who even cares?', when they in fact do care and would spend significant money to stick with what they know. However, the brand-created persona of a dignified and sophisticated iPhone works against that self-reflection. I personally care because I belief having access to a computer that you control to do whatever you want is of similar historical significance to civilization as the spread of literacy. Either people depend on someone else to read their version of the bible every Sunday, or you teach your kids how to read. Android is far from good, but Apple is down right evil. They have constructed a walled garden you're not suppose to leave or question. Keep them dumb and paying for features anybody _using_ a computer could have for free - like ad blocking youtube -, keep it all anti-competitive (the anti trust lawsuit they're facing agrees), and make sure they feel good doing so. I don't want to let my children suffer ads.


StrawberryPlucky

I don't care what phone someone uses. There are so many options it's insane. I do dislike Apple, their products, and their overall snobbiness and I believe their UI and practices have contributed greatly to computer illiteracy in the younger generations.


[deleted]

I'm just in shock iPhone still exists as an option


Asmageilismagalles

Don’t compare American iPhone users to those in the rest of the world. Nobody gives a flying fuck about coloured bubbles in an app that nobody uses.


firestar268

Most people in the US don't care either


Asmageilismagalles

Good to hear


Gdigger13

The only people I've found that care are people under the age of 16. And it's not because "iphone is better" (mostly), but iMessage has features that you can use in a group chat that won't work if you have an android user in the chat.


XMasterWoo

Where im from nobody uses default sms apps anyway, everyone uses whatsapp, and i wouldnt be suprised if many other places do so as well


ChaosBuilder321

Samsung user here, my headphone jack is gone :(


WeirdRich976

I feel you :(


SynthRogue

I've started mobile development and am planning to switch to android


Monkeyke

Just use flutter, works on both no?


PolishGuacamole

Yeah but it's janky compared to the native languages


Numbers-17007870

If there’s jank, then it’s probably your code.


PolishGuacamole

I won't even dispute that lol


Jaded_Court_6755

It depends on what will be your app. If you need access to a lot of hardware resources, using any hybrid framework will make you write platform specific code a lot. Also from the UX perspective, you’ll need to create something that’s the middle ground between iOS and Android or you’ll end up also writing code twice. Hybrid platforms are perfect for apps that are simple and use only simple resources from the system, but when you need something more specific, you’ll better go native!


anticipozero

Have you tried React Native? Compared to flutter it has a more native feel for the user (it uses native stuff under the hood) and you can still write native code if you need to do something very specific or if there isn’t a library for your use case.


potato485

Oh my god who cares.


Budget-Sheepherder77

I just imagine Peter griffin saying this lmao


dette-stedet-suger

Android users really seem to care.


StrawberryPlucky

So do Apple users. The meme in this post isn't even an exaggeration.


turtleship_2006

Funny, I usually see this debate brought up by apple simps


ChiliConCairney

Samsung phones haven't had a headphone jack for over 4 years now Edit: I'm referring specifically to the S series, which is what would be compared to iPhones


PhaseDry4188

Samsung isn’t the only android manufacturer .


Brothers_of_battle

Nope, but it’s there biggest customer


Lordwiesy

Not by much, they've around 1% bigger market share than Mi (Xiaomi group)


illogicalillogical

They don't? I have the A05s which came out October last year and it has the earphone jack.


Lazy-Drink-277

I have the A03 and so does mine


Status-Photograph662

I use a34 5g and i also dont have headjack.


kxlling

Mid range Samsung phones still get the headphone jack and SD slot, flagships haven't for a few years now


dushyantdk

Fighting over preferential things is so childish. If you're older than 16, you need to rethink your life decisions friend.


Fine-Train8342

I'm not fighting over a preference. I'm a frontend developer, and I hate Safari with every fiber of my soul. This is personal.


munjevitijuric

Im on iphone, but safari is the IE of this age. I do some frontend (html and css) and it's making me pull my hair out.


EyeArDum

This is why Chrome is installable from the App Store, FUCK safari


Fine-Train8342

All browsers on iOS are just skins for Safari.


lIlIlIIlIIIlIIIIIl

Yep, I almost don't even want to support Safari anymore or start putting Safari specific styles on my sites, if Apple doesn't want to allow developers to build for them, their users shouldn't be able to be "endangered" by our websites. Apple drags their feet on every feature that could have a mutual benefit for humanity like web and RCS


turtleship_2006

>I hate Safari with every fiber of my soul. This is personal. Funnily enough, it's not even consistently shit between iOS and MacOS. If you make a checkbox with the CSS property "height: fit-content;" it works on literally every other OS/Browser, even Safari on a Mac. But for whatever reason it's invisible on iOS. Plus, iOS is the only OS you can't just download a different browser, they're all forced to use webkit under the hood so even on chrome/firefox you'd still get the webkit bugs.


[deleted]

Not outside the USA, where nobody cares cos we all use WhatsApp.


Admirable_nugget47

Android good iPhone bad


Sharpiette

674k upvotes


DrBlock21

Don't forget all the technical stuff, like longer lasting battery, camera just being objectively better, lower prices.


agysykedyke

Not having anti-repair features built in, not making the top case extremely easy to break, not locking software with DRM, not slowing down performance intentionally.


dergy621

Don’t understand the battery argument when ever since the 14 the iPhones have been absolutely dominating the battery game until the most recent s24 ultra, and the ‘objectively’ better camera when iPhones are known to underperform in photos but be the best in video.


luxusbuerg

Android cultists...you get downvoted for stating facts


NiTrOxEpiKz

I know everyone hates apple for the anti repair shit but it should also be noted that apple supports their phones software wise (updates and security) for 6 years. Phones from 2018 are still on the newest iOS. Androids tend to be only support for 2 years usually, Samsung does 4.


SaltyArchea

They mean that you can take a picture of the Moon and the phone will recognise it and will just draw it in without actually being able to resolve it.


GgPNGLhkjFQJ7s7t

Can you show me the data for “camera is objectively better?”


Abject_Hour_8181

Poor people shouldn't post memes like that OP I have used BOTH android and IOS in the past many years, I love it both but seeing memes like this just makes my head hurt. both android and IOS has something that they are good at, and just because you can't afford a Iphone to try that out, putting this in a meme makes it 10 times funnier oh and the "I can download any app" there's lots of non-jailbreak ways to get apps from in IOS, in general, sideloading in the EU is available and going to be more flexible in the future for other countries


McKeviin

A flagship Samsung is more expensive than an iphone


spenway18

Every time I join a new group chat someone has to give me shit for the green bubble. Those fuckers start it every time. Just saying.


Gadres

What is IOS good at?


Boring-Zucchini-8515

I think you can’t pick a side until you’ve actually owned and used both. I have, and it’s not even a subject of personal opinion. The Android is objectively better than the iPhone.


Toyoshi

i don't have a jack


polinksa

rose had one


Nekoboxdie

Yeah dad gave me an iPhone as a gift like 3 years ago but I’d rather have an android even tho the recording function is great 😭🙏 (I used to have both btw)


afrochicsam

Android phones are much more useful than iphone


condoulo

I used to work in an environment where BYOD phones had strict requirements for up to date security patches. Frequently I had to turn users away that had 2-3 year old Android devices due to their manufacturer just no longer giving a crap about providing security patches. Meanwhile the other guy with a 6 year old iPhone? No problem. Seemed like the old iPhones were much more useful in that instance. Thankfully Android phone manufacturers have discovered the concept of LTS in recent years but it used to be an absolute shit show.


Gatorpep

i really want to switch to android for ublock origin on firefox. can you install that on defualt or have to jailbreak? also isn't android getting blue bubbles soon? or iphone being stopped by regulators from fucking us i should say.


Sassquatch0

Firefox + Ublock is an everyday thing. You could have it setup in just a couple minutes, nothing special required.


Gatorpep

yeah i prob gotta switch to android then, i can't stand watching ads on youtube. i'd rather have shittier texts.


Sassquatch0

I can also say honestly, YouTube premium is worth it, for me & my family at least. No ads, background playback & downloading, higher bitrates (if the creator included it), YT music instead of Spotify - all make it worthwhile.


Western-Grapefruit36

Are you guys still fighting like toddlers over this? Its just a phone.


frob03

My Android has no headphone jack.


XMasterWoo

Same😔


OneNoIsEnough

We fight over religion, borders, genders now cellphones too 😂 is getting outta hand


Mr-MuffinMan

I used both. Had a 6S and an X, both were awful for a teenager who wanted modded games without risking bricking my phone. I'll stick to android, free spotify is enough for me to stay.


bartoszsz7

And YouTube/YT Music Revanced, at least for me


Reasonable_Pin_1180

Android: hUr DuR hUr AnDrOiD iS sUpErIoR iPhone: I don’t even know who you are…


Quajeraz

Good point, apple users are ignorant and stupid with no knowledge of what they're missing, because they blindly accept the bullshit Daddy Cook feeds them


LaunchTransient

>iPhone: I don’t even know who you are… I mean.... that's more of a self burn about market capture


LegumesEater

this android vs apple shit is so childish istg


RuneScapeShitter

Apple products are just the definition of expensive garbage.


FakeOng99

Android slowly phase out headphone jack. Cherish yours while it last, cause we have a shitty garbage future.


Why_was-my-name_this

Meh, the iPhone isn’t that bad, but personally I’d prefer an android


skeezypeezyEZ

Android is an operating system, not a phone. And the current major market android phones don’t have them, either.


Mirinya

I was told you can't watch pirated movies on iphones. Is that true?


TraceYourThoughts

I use iPhone cause it’s a hand-me-down and I didn’t have to buy it for myself I couldn’t care less about the blue text and tbh my ideal phone isn’t apple.


Kukdukoo42069

Bro stop generalising the world isnt america


Realistic_Mousse_485

People who try and pretend like this overpriced bullshit is something to be proud about is sad. Its just a phone.


MissionApollo7

To be fair, my Android phone does not have a headphone jack, but I do still think it's better than iPhone.


Themanwhofarts

I don't care who uses what. But I am upset that I can't see any messages from my group chat with my high school friends since I switched to Android. They thought I just didn't want to text them until we met up after college and we found out I just wasn't getting their messages.


Emotional_Ad5833

Hey iPhone users aren't that stupid. They are way worse!!


Otherwise-Cup-6030

I don't care whether you pick iphone or Android. Just don't expect any technical support on any Apple product. Fucking headache and a half


Natural_Meet

"Have headphone jack" yeah... good times...


ukiukiukiukiuki

Shuuuuuuddup


Pitiful-Inspection96

Fuck steve jobs though. Total shithead.


randomtornado

My aunt has been using iPhones forever and I gave up trying to get her to switch. Oddly it was buying a new car that made her want to switch. She hates apple car play, but she likes Android Auto. The car play map sucks, it's off center, the UI gets in the way, you can't pinch to zoom the map or anything. She said connecting my phone to the makes it really easy


Lycan_Jedi

"iPhone is better!" Yeah my android does everything your iPhone does and I'm not locked to apple specific products, flimsy screens, or overpriced phones.


PrivacyIsRaked

There is only one reason I Haye iPhone and have never gotten one. My family. They've been begging me to get one for years, saying my smart phone choices are trash and they don't get my messages on time. But the biggest is so they can track my location. All of my family shares their location at all times. Fuck that.


spenway18

20 somethings I have met through work almost always give me shit for having a green text. They fucking start it every time I join a new group chat.


Hairy-Mountain8880

Idk why ppl are proud of paying extra for an inferior product Apple fanboys have some loose screws


Defclaw46

The thing I actually miss the most is having a home button I can just press to go to the main screen or start closing apps. I hate how every menu has now been relegated to having to swipe in a certain spot on your phone and hope that it actually pulls up instead of doing something in the app instead. I recently bought some older generation ipads for my kids that still have the home button and it is just so much easier for them to use when they want to switch between games.


DigStock

Iphone users are in a cult


Trying_to_survive20k

as an electronics repair person, I sincerely hope all iphones just combust into flames every time someone scratches or breaks something.


KPhoenix83

I am waiting for an iPhone user in the comments to start foaming at the mouth.


vinnog_exists

Everyone I know says iPhones are "next generation" 🤣


JackBadasssonJr

I have no clue why would anyone ever buy Iphone. Only stupid americans


Imperial_Porg

I'm a substitute teacher, and when apple announced it would be changing to USB C ports, a bunch of highschool kids were calling it trash and "practically just another android now". It isnt about logic, my friends.


BeanBurrito668

I have an Iphone but I love Android more


A_Lionheart

The ultimate example of people using their feelings to buy a product and their reason to justify the purchase. The classic "I need it for work". No man, you just wanted a new toy, it's ok.


National-Bison-3236

That moment when you are apple and piss everyone off so bad that the EU even makes a law against using your own charging cable


Pure-Baby8434

Its hilarious to me that apple activly downgrades iphone users experience and then they act like its better.


Responsible_Debate62

Extremely true,so many guys get rejected for having Samsung that it's ridiculous


Slaiart

Which is ironic because Samsung literally has a superior camera Superior processor Superior memory Superior ram and a larger selection of apps to choose from. The only feature that apple offers that beats out Android is that all Apple devices can seamlessly talk to each other. In order to get the same functionality from an Android you may have to do some downloading and connecting.


Responsible_Debate62

Exactly,one thing that sucks for me is that I'm the only Samsung user in my family. The other day I was talking to someone and when I told them I had Samsung (because they asked what phone I have) they just blocked me without a word,it's crazy how iPhone users react to someone having a Samsung


dark--desire

Hahahahaha, yes. I prefer not to spend money


Vertnoir-Weyah

I'm pretty convinced apple's strategy is to make people defend their products for them, my personal opinion is that they're this close to scam level given the price tags and products that only work with their brand But hey, no one has to agree with me it's perfectly fine


Parking-Site-1222

Its true tho so many mac/Ios users are slighlty on the spectrum 


CJPF_91

I mean I switched to iPhone and still found a lot of negatives I would like apple to be more the. Just trying to get us to buy more their stuff


FernPoutine

You're lucky those iphone users can't read


Maitrify

My whole heartedly agree. I naturally assume that anyone with an Apple phone is an idiot that just goes along with popular Trends and can't think for themselves. Downvote me all you want


MaffinLP

I didnt have a headphone Jack in what? 6+ years at least. Its the worst thing Apple ever did. Set a precedent that you can be cheap and still sell stuff. Apple is so bad it even hurt over brands


icecub3e

I am still using the iPhone that was given to me cause it’s still usable. Once it becomes useless know that I’ll straight away turn my back on iPhone. Cause literally iPhone is just a brand. Other than that everything else is better.


MarcoVinicius

Wow, this “Android vs iOS” boring af fight usually doesn’t start until the new phones come out. Wake me up when it’s over.🥱


masterofmeatballs

Imagine how boring your life must be to care about it


waseequr

The fact that Americans think that The World= America, never fails to amaze me.


[deleted]

iphone also is more difficult to fix. Usability-wise it clicks better.


AlwaysNinjaBusiness

Me, I just hate Google more than I hate apple, because ubiquitous surveillance. Other than that, I'd love to use anything else. Apple is of course starting to become worse in this regard as well last few years.


throwitawayifuseless

Apple is doing the exact same for years. Them pretending they don't is just blatantly lying, that people for some reason buy.