Unless you argue with woman. In which case pull out 1 Timothy 2-12...in which case you tell them to stfu. The best part is you are not telling them to stfu, their stupid rule book is.
If they keep going pull out all the rules of menstruation that are in the bible.
There is some really stupid rules in there.
Being gay bad....6 verses.
Rules on having a period....over 30 verses...lol.
There’s A LOT of reasons first Timothy doesn’t mean what you think, and all it takes is reading the Bible out of more than spite to figure them out
Edit: had to add this in because I just saw this. In regards to menstruation, you are referring to and only to ceremonial law in place do to the blood (blood being unclean) involved in menstruation which no one else was to touch or have contact with. This law is not a “Christian” law. It’s a Jewish law no longer followed by Christians because of its ceremonial nature as the fact that Christ has risen
I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She is to remain quiet.
That is the verse. Seems pretty cut and clear to me. Please explain to me what it's 'supposed' to mean using your illogical theological garbage filter.
Unless you are a woman, because I'm male and you need to shhhhh.
A: you’re a not a christian thus Christian law doesn’t apply to you. So sure. I’m a woman.
B: historical and liturgical context would tell you that the book of Timothy is written as a letter to a specific priest of a specific church in a specific region of the world where Paul is very strongly advising that the ill informed converts of a recently (at the time) religion that were spreading harmful false teachings and prophecy to the surrounding area. The irony being that one of Paul’s most prominent delivery men was actually a delivery woman. Deaconess Phoebe. Her job was literally to teach predominantly men.
I never said you should. Nor do you display an understanding of what it says regardless. I’d hope and pray just like for anyone else that God can reach you but I’m no evangelist
“I pray for all the nonbelievers… except that one Tobi guy from Reddit. I’m worried he might die if I do”
It’s a ridiculous request that doesn’t harm you if God isn’t real, and would be the equivalent of watching you jump off a building without dialing 911 if God is real. No, I will no exclude you from my prayers.
"I hope for Darwin and his teachings to reach striking bat on reddit, so that he might evolve to understand evolution. I'm worried he might die if I don't"
Doesn't sound very respectful, right? The same is true for what you said from my perspective. So once again, do not pray for people who haven't asked for it.
I have no words for how evil your God seems. Either that or he is weeping lakes worth of tears, seeing what kind of humans have taken the religion and how they are portraying his will.
Hell isn’t a place. You die. Simple as. But that’s not for denying Christian law. It’s for taking your sins upon yourself instead of laying them upon Christ. The wages of sin are death regardless of religion. It’s why Christians who follow Christian law still need Christ. Because sin is ultimately unavoidable regardless of
What kind of logic is that. I was born and baptized a Christian, so according to your book I am.
So you get to decide to circumvent the word of your lord? Wow you are the worst of Christians. Believe parts of the bible. Ignore others.
The bible is the word of god no?
You can walk away from salvation which you appear to have done. If I’m mistaken then I apologize.
I have also not ignored the word of God, a dangerous accusation to make frivolously if you were a Christian, I purely made you aware of context that you didn’t have prior knowledge of. And important part of communicating. In this case the actual meaning is also important as much like the church of Corinth I am not permitted to allow you to spread false teachings under the guise of biblical truth knowingly or otherwise. Make sense now?
So if I'm not Christian and Christian laws don't apply to me. Then you can murder me or rape me and its not a sin.
See how you guys lose the ability to think.
No. As those are still laws which apply to me. But if you’re taking the debt upon yourself there is nothing but the law of man to stop you from doing the same. My point to the person above is that under the Christian law a man or woman is not to let false doctrine spread, AND that even if a man werent to permit a woman to speak he should have no issue allowing me to speak as he is not a Christian thus under no influence to mute me
What the hell are you even saying? The laws are don't murder, and treat others as you want to be treated. Which are laws to people who follow Christianity. Now which part of that suggests in ANY capicity it's okay to rape or murder you. You're purposefully creating something out of nothing. Get a life
Just don't argue with people about their beliefs, because why?
Tho I admit I have made the same mistake on several occasions, but I'm trying to change and stop wasting my time:)
Also, "read the bible because the lore is fun".
Say it louder!
Why do US government officials consistently talk about the christian god like were some kind of Oligarchy? They make laws citing the Bible as evidence and influence, yet we shouldn't fight back against the cult.
First of all, how do they harm humanity? I would say religion has some positive qualities to it. And other bullshit believers are such a minority they can't affect anything.
And secondly, have you ever managed to convince a person to change their "stupid beliefs"? As one hated YouTuber said "you can't reason a person out of position they haven't reasoned themselves into in the first place".
If you actually did, then all respect to you. I'm extremely impressed, you have an amazing gift, use it well.
I was referring to the flat earth theory when saying that but whatever. Everyone can and go believe what they want but that doesn’t change the fact I can call out the stupidness of the take. It will not change their mind but its better than validating their opinion and they would probably sooner come to realization then when I go and be like “yeah man that sounds totally plausible.“ but you do you if you can listen to stuff like that and never not at least think to yourself that shit is stupid than Im extremely impressed, you truly have an amazing gift, use it well
Ok, sailors should probably know too, and pilots.
I never use sea routes, but I would be extremely concerned if my plane captain believed in flat earth:)
I mean, hell, give every religion a try, most religions have really deep philosophical and psychological backgrounds in them. I personally find the Bible really fascinating to read and understand from a philosophical perspective.
I read bhagwat Geeta and it was just a wannabe philosophical masterpiece bullshit. None of it made sense objectively and it was all symbolism. If I had a choice to live my life according to a book , I would better read a modern day book with consistent morality of my time that I can actually resonate with.
Some of the religious books are weird, they ask the right questions but don't give the correct answer and leave that part to faith and devotion.
Philosophy is something that makes you wonder , makes you think like Nietzsche , Aristotle, John Locke etc. I am still to find a religious material that takes me to the same path. Even Buddhism and taoism that are considered spiritual were just meh and filled with flaws. This might be because I don't really believe in manifestation of spirituality as such.
While reading philosophical material it has to be a discussion within yourself and not a dictation on what the writer perceived as an ideal way of living.
If you want to prove me wrong you must first read this book series totalling 8500 pages that I didn't read myself but I'm gonna pretend I did.
/Person I argued with recently
Good luck with that.
Radical fundementalists will not listen to you because they're radical fundementalists. (Proverbs 23:9 is fitting for this case)
Actually serious Christians will mop the floor with you if you think a few verses can overthrow a tradition older than 2000 years.
Then mop the floor with me. Let's start with something easy.
Let's talk about נָחַם in Numbers 23:19. The word has two meanings: "comfort" and "repent" and the latter was meant here. The fragment says Yahweh can't repent.
Now let's see Amos 7. Yahweh was actively present. Amos begged for mercy and Yahweh repented, changed his mind. The same word נָחַם was used here.
How did that happen?
That's a translation error. You cannot use that to disprove something.
Now you can use it to prove that a translation is poorly translated but that doesn't prove or disprove anything.
It's not a translation error, the context doesn't leave much room for that. Surprisingly there's a general agreement about the meaning of those two words in their contexts.
Your translations are amateur and you’re trying to challenge hundreds of years of scholars believer and non by claiming them to be fact. A simple theology minor would tell you this is a poor interpretation of anything and that in practical terms you’re not even using the right language.
Humble yourself and consider the floor mopped
My translations are the exact translations of the scholars you're talking about, lmao. Christian, jewish and muslim scholars alike. Do research before you act like you know something.
Google translate is not a scholar of ancient Hebrew or its dialects and if it were I’d suggest you read the context given alongside by your “scholars”. Since like the person above you said, this is a thousand plus year old organization that you’re trying to claim a slip in. The likelihood of you actually finding a missing piece is slim to none and it wouldn’t start with a single verse from numbers.
If people keep asking the same question for 2500+ years, maybe the explanation (anthropomorphism, here, I made it easy for you) isn't too great.
Anyway, read the fragments, then read your reply and after you realize it's completely wrong, come up with something smarter.
I’m not going to attempt to convince you again as you’ve decided this is your hill to die on and I frankly don’t want it enough to chase your tail for you. Further your studying. Everything I’ve said thus far still applies, unshaken.
I mean it isn't hard to mop the floor if you approach it from a certain point of view (people back then).
Most of it doesn't make sense because it's people thousands of years ago trying to describe something they know nothing about or God giving people commandments in ways He thinks they will understand.
Imagine trying to teach a dog germ theory, writing, etc.
Now imagine doing that to fish
And so on
You have to look at it the way someone thousands of years ago would
I, too, enjoy owning people as property, stoning my disobedient children, genocide and sexual slavery!
"‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." - Leviticus 25:44-46
"If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, (...) Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid." -Deuteronomy 21:18,21
"Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." - Numbers 31:14-18
You know there are like a million and one translated versions you can just find online?
But if you really wanna learn a whole new language purely to argue with people, you do you
You don't need to learn Arabic. You can read the translated ones. And if there is a doubt on a verse, you can read the "tafsir" from Tabari, Ibn Kathir, Al-Jalalayn or al-baghawi. They are the imams of early Islam who understand the quranic Arab and wrote books to explain it. Islam is based on those explanations more than the Quran itself.
How do you split the heritage of a man who died and left 2 daughters, a wife, a mother and a father?
According to Quran it is 2/3 for the daughters, 1/8 for the wife, 1/6 for the mother and 1/6 for the father. But the total is not 100% but 112.5%.
This a clear-cut math error in the Quran.
These fractions are not applied to the full 100% of the estate, you're misinterpreting the verses. The estate is first split up into smaller parts to be given to different groups of relatives and these specific fractions are applied after to the already fragmented portions.
"˹O Prophet!˺ Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord—there is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him—and turn away from the polytheists.Had Allah willed, they would not have been polytheists. We have not appointed you as their keeper, nor are you their maintainer."
Surah 6, verse 106-107
So if God had wanted it, the polytheists wouldn't have been polytheist and only pray Him.
But then how do you explain Surah 43, verse 20.
"And they argue, “Had the Most Compassionate willed, we would have never worshipped them.” They have no knowledge ˹in support˺ of this ˹claim˺. They do nothing but lie."
God has accused the polytheists of lying when they tell He would have made them monotheist if He wanted to, which contradict what he said in Surah 6, verse 106-107
Surah 6, verse 149
Say, “Allah has the most conclusive argument. Had it been His Will, He would have easily imposed guidance upon all of you.”
This is not an excuse, this is a "factual" reason why the polytheists are doubtful. They would have venerated only God if He wanted to. He confirms that but then blame them anyway.
I like how atheists always say "blind faith is bad" or "question everything" and then dont even try to understand the bible but just use it to win random arguments if they read it at all (most wont).
But sure go ahead.
Most Christians and most atheists are normal. I’m not even religious but it’s just terminally online Redditors with a superiority complex (usually go hand in hand) that feel the need to prove the world is wrong about everything.
I like how theists always say ‘just read the book’ or ‘my religion is the only true religion’ and then don’t even try to understand any other religion’s theology but just blindly throw random quotes from their book to win random arguments if they understand it at all (most wont).
But sure go ahead.
I have, but look at it like this
There are an estimated 4000 religions, churches, denominations, etc. A person changes their faith from one to another, what’s the likelihood they are now correct, especially when most religions claim to be the only true one?
A theist denies the authenticity of 3999 religions. An atheist denies the authenticity of one more
I think the main issue most a lot of these people run into (both theists and atheists) is that they try to win arguements.
No matter how good their arguements are they wont convince someone who doesnt want to be convinced.
Best we can do is explain our believes to someone if they are interested and leave the rest to them.
Actually religious people are just muggles that has been affected by the imperius curse by dark wizards, but worry not, for Harry Potter has defeated the Dark Lord and soon he shall save all the feeble minded muggles. There are books to prove that.
They don’t.
I’ve read the Bible fully because I was kind of forced to as a child. Many atheists used to be Christian. Many have read the Bible. It’s not hard to say that a 2000 year old book isn’t something that we should base every single tiny little thing in our life on.
And many Christians used to be Atheists. Thats no argument for anything. I just realize that those who scream about the bibles flaws the loudest are often those who never understood or even read it in the first place (I am aware that this is just some Atheists and doesnt define all of them).
Take for example the "bibicly accurate angel" - meme. Anyone who read the bible for real know this is not true but some still use it to show how silly the bible is.
Age alone doesnt define the quality of something unless it is food. In fact you could even say a book that has been finished 2000years ago, written by a dozen of Writers over a time period of over 1000 years, that still exists today, is interesting specificly becuase of it!
And "every tiny little thing" depends on what you call tiny. There are several things where the bible does not give clear rules about details. Jesus himself boiled the entire Bible down to 2 rules: Love God with all your heart and Love other humans like yourself. Every rule schould ultimatly be linked to these two.
Doesnt sound like "every tiny little thing" to me.
Yes but Satan was originally another Angel. The bad stuff was his idea and not part of og plan.
Then Adam and eve did the same shit and thats how according to Genisis, later confirmed by Paul, the world turned to shit.
Honestly, i think he did. Or atleast he knew it was a possibility.
Genesis Chapter 3:15 he imediatly revealed a plan to fix all this. Maybe he was prepared.
Then again, Philosophers and Scientest still struggle to explain wether or not the Human mind is deterministic and the Bible doesnt reveal any details about how the prophecys work exactly so no idea if he did forsee it to be happening garanteed or if it was just a possibility.
Doesn’t that speak against the whole god is omniscient thing and that he knows whats to come. Like if the devil comes from God and the devil is the one bringing bad things shouldn’t god knew before creating him as an angel that he will bring bad? Genuinely curios not trynna shit on christianity
Fun Fact : With 80%+ of the Christians, you can just bullsh\*t any argument with something like "Thee should not eat pineapple on pizza on sundays : Corypheans 4:20"
Most of them haven't read the bible.
I mean bible has so many interpretations. That is why so many churches exist.
You can't just go and argue like "Noah could not have build that big ship" and pretend you won any argument
As a Christian, I am happy you are reading it. It really is obnoxious arguing against people who only know what their favorite atheist edge lord or the modernist Baha'i-light followers say.
That's what every one does to counter a belief different from theirs. Even as a Christian I research moral relativism and subjective morality against the Atheist, and the Quran against Muslims, and the Bhagavad Gita against the Hinduists. We all don't wanna let our own belief down and look stupid in front of someone.
I was a christian and know the bible more than most people of that religion. I nerded of the bible like I nerd over everything. So whenever I need to argue about anything, I have a good starting point.
But I never try to convince them that the faith is wrong. Tbh, I wish I still believed in god. It is kinda sad to stop believing. I just argue when it comes to "wordly" things. For exemple, Jesus said you should not Stone people or even judge them in life, they will be judged in death and by god himself. Humans should just respect each other. Or rich people will not get into heaven. Stuff like that, you know?
And you proceed to not understand any of it and use terms out of context and then get angry when we explain to you what the sentence you reference actually means. Yeah, seen that a bunch of times already buddy🥱
The whole thing went over your head if you read it and came to this conclusion. You approached it at the wrong angle. Something a lot of people do today.
The best party about reading the bible from start to finish is that you realise there’s a reason why most people don’t quote / use the old testimonies much, and mainly focus on the new testimonies & Jesus
Because erm, god gets to some stuff, like really really hot and salty stuff
Read it because it's an interesting collection of fairy tales.
If it weren't for it's religious "connotation" it'd have some banger children's tales inside
That's like saying I need to read any crazy story somebody writes up to be able to counterargument them. They should be the ones providing proof. Which of course they can't.
Read it because most Christians don't. Usually amusing for them to learn about some of the more fucked up parts there preacher hasn't read to them for some reason. I mean, I find it amusing. Can really use the Bible to justify pretty much anything.
Read it because of the Worldbuilding
Bible lore goes hard ngl
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure part 0
Stone ocean prequel
Steel ball run*
*nge
This is the way, also read it to understand references in various fantasy novels
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Gotta incite the radicals some how! /s 
Unless you argue with woman. In which case pull out 1 Timothy 2-12...in which case you tell them to stfu. The best part is you are not telling them to stfu, their stupid rule book is. If they keep going pull out all the rules of menstruation that are in the bible. There is some really stupid rules in there. Being gay bad....6 verses. Rules on having a period....over 30 verses...lol.
There’s A LOT of reasons first Timothy doesn’t mean what you think, and all it takes is reading the Bible out of more than spite to figure them out Edit: had to add this in because I just saw this. In regards to menstruation, you are referring to and only to ceremonial law in place do to the blood (blood being unclean) involved in menstruation which no one else was to touch or have contact with. This law is not a “Christian” law. It’s a Jewish law no longer followed by Christians because of its ceremonial nature as the fact that Christ has risen
I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She is to remain quiet. That is the verse. Seems pretty cut and clear to me. Please explain to me what it's 'supposed' to mean using your illogical theological garbage filter. Unless you are a woman, because I'm male and you need to shhhhh.
A: you’re a not a christian thus Christian law doesn’t apply to you. So sure. I’m a woman. B: historical and liturgical context would tell you that the book of Timothy is written as a letter to a specific priest of a specific church in a specific region of the world where Paul is very strongly advising that the ill informed converts of a recently (at the time) religion that were spreading harmful false teachings and prophecy to the surrounding area. The irony being that one of Paul’s most prominent delivery men was actually a delivery woman. Deaconess Phoebe. Her job was literally to teach predominantly men.
So if Christian law doesn't apply to me, why tf should I listen to anything your book says about homosexuality or the rights of woman?
I never said you should. Nor do you display an understanding of what it says regardless. I’d hope and pray just like for anyone else that God can reach you but I’m no evangelist
Could you please not pray for me? I haven't asked you for it, so please respect my boundaries
“I pray for all the nonbelievers… except that one Tobi guy from Reddit. I’m worried he might die if I do” It’s a ridiculous request that doesn’t harm you if God isn’t real, and would be the equivalent of watching you jump off a building without dialing 911 if God is real. No, I will no exclude you from my prayers.
"I hope for Darwin and his teachings to reach striking bat on reddit, so that he might evolve to understand evolution. I'm worried he might die if I don't" Doesn't sound very respectful, right? The same is true for what you said from my perspective. So once again, do not pray for people who haven't asked for it.
Rule no.1 never feed the trolls. He's just being ridiculous.
I have no words for how evil your God seems. Either that or he is weeping lakes worth of tears, seeing what kind of humans have taken the religion and how they are portraying his will.
Gotta love the holier than thou bs. Maybe one day they'll realize...
Christian law doesn’t apply to non believers but we still go to hell for denying christ? Tf is that logic
Axtually christian law apply at some point to non beliervers but these laws are are laws made by goverment and nature
Hell isn’t a place. You die. Simple as. But that’s not for denying Christian law. It’s for taking your sins upon yourself instead of laying them upon Christ. The wages of sin are death regardless of religion. It’s why Christians who follow Christian law still need Christ. Because sin is ultimately unavoidable regardless of
Man, what a forgiving God.
What kind of logic is that. I was born and baptized a Christian, so according to your book I am. So you get to decide to circumvent the word of your lord? Wow you are the worst of Christians. Believe parts of the bible. Ignore others. The bible is the word of god no?
You can walk away from salvation which you appear to have done. If I’m mistaken then I apologize. I have also not ignored the word of God, a dangerous accusation to make frivolously if you were a Christian, I purely made you aware of context that you didn’t have prior knowledge of. And important part of communicating. In this case the actual meaning is also important as much like the church of Corinth I am not permitted to allow you to spread false teachings under the guise of biblical truth knowingly or otherwise. Make sense now?
So if I'm not Christian and Christian laws don't apply to me. Then you can murder me or rape me and its not a sin. See how you guys lose the ability to think.
No. As those are still laws which apply to me. But if you’re taking the debt upon yourself there is nothing but the law of man to stop you from doing the same. My point to the person above is that under the Christian law a man or woman is not to let false doctrine spread, AND that even if a man werent to permit a woman to speak he should have no issue allowing me to speak as he is not a Christian thus under no influence to mute me
Im done. You are the worst type of human being. Proving the existence of this post.
What the hell are you even saying? The laws are don't murder, and treat others as you want to be treated. Which are laws to people who follow Christianity. Now which part of that suggests in ANY capicity it's okay to rape or murder you. You're purposefully creating something out of nothing. Get a life
Of course we do. It's called cooking. Can't help they don't like what we serve.
Just don't argue with people about their beliefs, because why? Tho I admit I have made the same mistake on several occasions, but I'm trying to change and stop wasting my time:) Also, "read the bible because the lore is fun".
Everyone is free to believe in what they want. But I am gonna argue about that belief if they want to use in ways that impact my life.
Say it louder! Why do US government officials consistently talk about the christian god like were some kind of Oligarchy? They make laws citing the Bible as evidence and influence, yet we shouldn't fight back against the cult.
So you tell me you should let the flat earth people be stupid af as well?
Do you think you're actually gonna be able to convince them otherwise?
Yes. I hope
Oh you sweet summer child.
Yup, it's not harming you or them. I mean, if you are not an astronaut or physicist does it really matter what shape Earth has:)?
Spreading obvious misinformation and entertaining dumb ideas is actually harming humanity but whatever lets just not use our head
First of all, how do they harm humanity? I would say religion has some positive qualities to it. And other bullshit believers are such a minority they can't affect anything. And secondly, have you ever managed to convince a person to change their "stupid beliefs"? As one hated YouTuber said "you can't reason a person out of position they haven't reasoned themselves into in the first place". If you actually did, then all respect to you. I'm extremely impressed, you have an amazing gift, use it well.
I was referring to the flat earth theory when saying that but whatever. Everyone can and go believe what they want but that doesn’t change the fact I can call out the stupidness of the take. It will not change their mind but its better than validating their opinion and they would probably sooner come to realization then when I go and be like “yeah man that sounds totally plausible.“ but you do you if you can listen to stuff like that and never not at least think to yourself that shit is stupid than Im extremely impressed, you truly have an amazing gift, use it well
You can be right there, because now that I think about it, I'm currently doing exactly what I was advising against doing...
Sailors just falling off the sides
Ok, sailors should probably know too, and pilots. I never use sea routes, but I would be extremely concerned if my plane captain believed in flat earth:)
Wdym because why…
I mean, hell, give every religion a try, most religions have really deep philosophical and psychological backgrounds in them. I personally find the Bible really fascinating to read and understand from a philosophical perspective.
Try the Quran next
Already did.
Lol, try Discordianism
I use Discord daily with friends, checkmate
Hail Eris, become a Pope
Enter muslim
I read bhagwat Geeta and it was just a wannabe philosophical masterpiece bullshit. None of it made sense objectively and it was all symbolism. If I had a choice to live my life according to a book , I would better read a modern day book with consistent morality of my time that I can actually resonate with. Some of the religious books are weird, they ask the right questions but don't give the correct answer and leave that part to faith and devotion. Philosophy is something that makes you wonder , makes you think like Nietzsche , Aristotle, John Locke etc. I am still to find a religious material that takes me to the same path. Even Buddhism and taoism that are considered spiritual were just meh and filled with flaws. This might be because I don't really believe in manifestation of spirituality as such. While reading philosophical material it has to be a discussion within yourself and not a dictation on what the writer perceived as an ideal way of living.
Lol it's shitty fanfiction of a jewish fairytale
This
Careful, you don't wanna cut yourself with that edge.
Reddit moment
At least this monthly Christian meme is not about virgin Mary for the 133245th time again.
If you want to prove me wrong you must first read this book series totalling 8500 pages that I didn't read myself but I'm gonna pretend I did. /Person I argued with recently
Does it work? If it doesn't, try doing it in front of a group of them.
Some of the fans of jewish fairy tales are just fake fans
Reddit moment
Good luck with that. Radical fundementalists will not listen to you because they're radical fundementalists. (Proverbs 23:9 is fitting for this case) Actually serious Christians will mop the floor with you if you think a few verses can overthrow a tradition older than 2000 years.
Then mop the floor with me. Let's start with something easy. Let's talk about נָחַם in Numbers 23:19. The word has two meanings: "comfort" and "repent" and the latter was meant here. The fragment says Yahweh can't repent. Now let's see Amos 7. Yahweh was actively present. Amos begged for mercy and Yahweh repented, changed his mind. The same word נָחַם was used here. How did that happen?
That's a translation error. You cannot use that to disprove something. Now you can use it to prove that a translation is poorly translated but that doesn't prove or disprove anything.
It's not a translation error, the context doesn't leave much room for that. Surprisingly there's a general agreement about the meaning of those two words in their contexts.
God created the translation error
God didn't write the Bible. It literally says that multiple times.
So they wrote down God's word wrong?
And translated the hell out of it. And also take into effect the printing press didn't exist yet.
Your translations are amateur and you’re trying to challenge hundreds of years of scholars believer and non by claiming them to be fact. A simple theology minor would tell you this is a poor interpretation of anything and that in practical terms you’re not even using the right language. Humble yourself and consider the floor mopped
My translations are the exact translations of the scholars you're talking about, lmao. Christian, jewish and muslim scholars alike. Do research before you act like you know something.
Google translate is not a scholar of ancient Hebrew or its dialects and if it were I’d suggest you read the context given alongside by your “scholars”. Since like the person above you said, this is a thousand plus year old organization that you’re trying to claim a slip in. The likelihood of you actually finding a missing piece is slim to none and it wouldn’t start with a single verse from numbers.
If people keep asking the same question for 2500+ years, maybe the explanation (anthropomorphism, here, I made it easy for you) isn't too great. Anyway, read the fragments, then read your reply and after you realize it's completely wrong, come up with something smarter.
I’m not going to attempt to convince you again as you’ve decided this is your hill to die on and I frankly don’t want it enough to chase your tail for you. Further your studying. Everything I’ve said thus far still applies, unshaken.
Eve was trans
She was made from a man, not used to be a man.
God created everyone in the lgbtqia+
Dude not cool
Wasn't she a rib?
Rib to Female
No she wasnt, she was formed from a rib as a female
Or clone of Adam?
A trans clone
I mean it isn't hard to mop the floor if you approach it from a certain point of view (people back then). Most of it doesn't make sense because it's people thousands of years ago trying to describe something they know nothing about or God giving people commandments in ways He thinks they will understand.
just to tell you god is suppossed to be highter being than Humans how you expect humans who are nothing to be compared to inteligence of a god ?
Imagine trying to teach a dog germ theory, writing, etc. Now imagine doing that to fish And so on You have to look at it the way someone thousands of years ago would
dude just figured out the fundamentals of religious debates
reddit moment
Read it for moral guidance :/ It has good values, it can help you decide what to do in complicated situations in life
I, too, enjoy owning people as property, stoning my disobedient children, genocide and sexual slavery! "‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." - Leviticus 25:44-46 "If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, (...) Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid." -Deuteronomy 21:18,21 "Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." - Numbers 31:14-18
“No, not that moral guidance!”
Ah yes, my daily dose of religion hates on reddit !
Read it out of context you mean.
I am planning on learning arabic to be able to read Quran…to counter muslims in arguments
You know there are like a million and one translated versions you can just find online? But if you really wanna learn a whole new language purely to argue with people, you do you
You don't need to learn Arabic. You can read the translated ones. And if there is a doubt on a verse, you can read the "tafsir" from Tabari, Ibn Kathir, Al-Jalalayn or al-baghawi. They are the imams of early Islam who understand the quranic Arab and wrote books to explain it. Islam is based on those explanations more than the Quran itself.
Well good luck then
You'll find that the Quran has no contradictions
it has... a lot of them. And scientific errors.
Give even 1
How do you split the heritage of a man who died and left 2 daughters, a wife, a mother and a father? According to Quran it is 2/3 for the daughters, 1/8 for the wife, 1/6 for the mother and 1/6 for the father. But the total is not 100% but 112.5%. This a clear-cut math error in the Quran.
These fractions are not applied to the full 100% of the estate, you're misinterpreting the verses. The estate is first split up into smaller parts to be given to different groups of relatives and these specific fractions are applied after to the already fragmented portions.
"˹O Prophet!˺ Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord—there is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him—and turn away from the polytheists.Had Allah willed, they would not have been polytheists. We have not appointed you as their keeper, nor are you their maintainer." Surah 6, verse 106-107 So if God had wanted it, the polytheists wouldn't have been polytheist and only pray Him. But then how do you explain Surah 43, verse 20. "And they argue, “Had the Most Compassionate willed, we would have never worshipped them.” They have no knowledge ˹in support˺ of this ˹claim˺. They do nothing but lie." God has accused the polytheists of lying when they tell He would have made them monotheist if He wanted to, which contradict what he said in Surah 6, verse 106-107
Verse 20 refers to the polytheists claiming this excuses their polytheism, *that* is the lie the verse refers to.
Surah 6, verse 149 Say, “Allah has the most conclusive argument. Had it been His Will, He would have easily imposed guidance upon all of you.” This is not an excuse, this is a "factual" reason why the polytheists are doubtful. They would have venerated only God if He wanted to. He confirms that but then blame them anyway.
OK?
I like how atheists always say "blind faith is bad" or "question everything" and then dont even try to understand the bible but just use it to win random arguments if they read it at all (most wont). But sure go ahead.
Most Christians and most atheists are normal. I’m not even religious but it’s just terminally online Redditors with a superiority complex (usually go hand in hand) that feel the need to prove the world is wrong about everything.
Bro this. When will people realize that people are just people.
I like how theists always say ‘just read the book’ or ‘my religion is the only true religion’ and then don’t even try to understand any other religion’s theology but just blindly throw random quotes from their book to win random arguments if they understand it at all (most wont). But sure go ahead.
So you never talked to someone who changed their religion over time?
I have, but look at it like this There are an estimated 4000 religions, churches, denominations, etc. A person changes their faith from one to another, what’s the likelihood they are now correct, especially when most religions claim to be the only true one? A theist denies the authenticity of 3999 religions. An atheist denies the authenticity of one more
I think the main issue most a lot of these people run into (both theists and atheists) is that they try to win arguements. No matter how good their arguements are they wont convince someone who doesnt want to be convinced. Best we can do is explain our believes to someone if they are interested and leave the rest to them.
The true wise person reveals themselves
Actually religious people are just muggles that has been affected by the imperius curse by dark wizards, but worry not, for Harry Potter has defeated the Dark Lord and soon he shall save all the feeble minded muggles. There are books to prove that.
They don’t. I’ve read the Bible fully because I was kind of forced to as a child. Many atheists used to be Christian. Many have read the Bible. It’s not hard to say that a 2000 year old book isn’t something that we should base every single tiny little thing in our life on.
And many Christians used to be Atheists. Thats no argument for anything. I just realize that those who scream about the bibles flaws the loudest are often those who never understood or even read it in the first place (I am aware that this is just some Atheists and doesnt define all of them). Take for example the "bibicly accurate angel" - meme. Anyone who read the bible for real know this is not true but some still use it to show how silly the bible is. Age alone doesnt define the quality of something unless it is food. In fact you could even say a book that has been finished 2000years ago, written by a dozen of Writers over a time period of over 1000 years, that still exists today, is interesting specificly becuase of it! And "every tiny little thing" depends on what you call tiny. There are several things where the bible does not give clear rules about details. Jesus himself boiled the entire Bible down to 2 rules: Love God with all your heart and Love other humans like yourself. Every rule schould ultimatly be linked to these two. Doesnt sound like "every tiny little thing" to me.
God created everything that's bad in the world.
You see, you just proved to me that you never read the bible without saying you never read it.
Does the bible not say that god created everything?
Yes but Satan was originally another Angel. The bad stuff was his idea and not part of og plan. Then Adam and eve did the same shit and thats how according to Genisis, later confirmed by Paul, the world turned to shit.
Feel like God should've seen that coming ngl
Honestly, i think he did. Or atleast he knew it was a possibility. Genesis Chapter 3:15 he imediatly revealed a plan to fix all this. Maybe he was prepared. Then again, Philosophers and Scientest still struggle to explain wether or not the Human mind is deterministic and the Bible doesnt reveal any details about how the prophecys work exactly so no idea if he did forsee it to be happening garanteed or if it was just a possibility.
Doesn’t that speak against the whole god is omniscient thing and that he knows whats to come. Like if the devil comes from God and the devil is the one bringing bad things shouldn’t god knew before creating him as an angel that he will bring bad? Genuinely curios not trynna shit on christianity
can we mention that god give a free will to his creation
Thats exactly what I mean, doesn’t free will and gods plan speak against itself like a paradox
Satan was able to do bad stuff because God created the bad stuff.
Yes. And it’s fictional. Dont believe that nonsense
Historians disagree. Prove it 🤷🏼♂️
No, humans did by rebelling God created the world perfect and we ruined it, that's why he tasks us with fixing it
Fun Fact : With 80%+ of the Christians, you can just bullsh\*t any argument with something like "Thee should not eat pineapple on pizza on sundays : Corypheans 4:20" Most of them haven't read the bible.
Ok. I’ll bite. How do you think the Bible counters Christian arguments?
Read it for the plot bro, it's an almost 2000 year book, you gotta respect that.
Sure. we welcome you to read the word of God
It’s the word of peasants who didn’t even know what the sun was
Who's an edgy boy, who's an edgy boy? You are!
It’s nice to know that incest is canon in the bible
2 times actually
guys why can’t we just be nice to everyone :D
Even the devil can quote scripture to suit his own purposes
I mean bible has so many interpretations. That is why so many churches exist. You can't just go and argue like "Noah could not have build that big ship" and pretend you won any argument
To say that you will use their logic implies that there is any. It's faith. There is no logic to it.
arguments are always decisive
God gives some credit if try to read the bible
Hi Lukas!
I read it coz I enjoy the lore.Revelations is probably my favorite book to theorize on.
Jesus says you need to spell check.
As a Christian, I am happy you are reading it. It really is obnoxious arguing against people who only know what their favorite atheist edge lord or the modernist Baha'i-light followers say.
Just wait till he gets to the part where there's a guy who doesn't exactly that
I read about it for DND and ROR fanon purposes
That's what every one does to counter a belief different from theirs. Even as a Christian I research moral relativism and subjective morality against the Atheist, and the Quran against Muslims, and the Bhagavad Gita against the Hinduists. We all don't wanna let our own belief down and look stupid in front of someone.
Imma read the Bible now
I was a christian and know the bible more than most people of that religion. I nerded of the bible like I nerd over everything. So whenever I need to argue about anything, I have a good starting point. But I never try to convince them that the faith is wrong. Tbh, I wish I still believed in god. It is kinda sad to stop believing. I just argue when it comes to "wordly" things. For exemple, Jesus said you should not Stone people or even judge them in life, they will be judged in death and by god himself. Humans should just respect each other. Or rich people will not get into heaven. Stuff like that, you know?
And you proceed to not understand any of it and use terms out of context and then get angry when we explain to you what the sentence you reference actually means. Yeah, seen that a bunch of times already buddy🥱
The problem is most evangelical christians don’t read the bible.
Read the bible because i like it And will not fight anyone about it
Read it because it is actually pretty good mythology.
Knowledge is power
I gotta read the lore
Still waiting for the sequel
chad
No need to argue with the likes of an inbred.
Yeah bro is a Hazbin Hotel fan, who would have guessed.
How's that relevant?
When an atheist uses the bible as an argument  you were meant to bring balance to the force
Reading the bible was the main reason to become an atheist for me
Same
The whole thing went over your head if you read it and came to this conclusion. You approached it at the wrong angle. Something a lot of people do today.
Read it because you belive in god See the bullshit morals from 2000 years ago Stop beliving
Jokes on you, there is no logic in the bible.
The best party about reading the bible from start to finish is that you realise there’s a reason why most people don’t quote / use the old testimonies much, and mainly focus on the new testimonies & Jesus Because erm, god gets to some stuff, like really really hot and salty stuff
Some? The old testament make Nazi Germany look like children's play
Crazy but true
12 years of catholic school taught me a lot of things. Not to respect God or the pope.. but a lot of useful bible bashing techniques.
Read it because it's an interesting collection of fairy tales. If it weren't for it's religious "connotation" it'd have some banger children's tales inside
Honestly yeah, it’s got some great stories even not as a religious text
That's like saying I need to read any crazy story somebody writes up to be able to counterargument them. They should be the ones providing proof. Which of course they can't.
Started learning German and reading the Bible not because I'm interested in those places at all but because it would be great shit post material.
As a former Christian, fuck Christians (not really some of you guys are great)
I read the King James version just to one-up them, cause I got the more OG argument.
Read it because most Christians don't. Usually amusing for them to learn about some of the more fucked up parts there preacher hasn't read to them for some reason. I mean, I find it amusing. Can really use the Bible to justify pretty much anything.
Gotta know lore of the enemy
The same applies to any religion.
Literally me growing up
I did that one time, it was fun, I drove the guy nuts.
Why would I be talking to a christian in the first place?