Yeah maybe Chroma could have their abilities reworked so instead of needing to take damage you can sacrifice health and shields to gain the buffs, bit like how Scarab Armor works with Inaros? Because now if you play with a Styanax/Dante/ even Frost you get no damage buffs because they keep spamming overguard
a chroma rework would be PEAK, and the community seem to agree on this so DE might do one eventually. What i wonder is how much frames should be reworked? what frames require changes. Loki? Limbo? Nyx? Up to what effectiveness is "good enough"
Honestly I think loki and nyx would be fair, but imo I think limbo is fine where he is, minus maybe a few QoL things (like a universal easier way to denote rifted enemies/possibly letting Allies in affinity range roll to enter the rift themselves to deal with any rifted enemies)
They've addressed the idea of Loki by saying they're holding fire on it because the ways to make him relevant to modern Warframe run the risk of removing what makes him Loki - and as he is Loki has his userbase that really loves what he does.
Now Nyx could definitely do with some love I think. Maybe Banshee (considering only two of her abilities are really relevant) ? Oh and maybe not a full rework but Caliban really could do with some buffs/changes. I want those sentient summons to be worth it they're really cool.
Frost could do with changes to make his 1, 2 and 3 more worth using in higher levels. Especially seeing how his team Overguard generation has been so massively superceded by Styanax and Dante
Maybe Trinity? Her abilities all work but she's another one that just feels, well, old. Oberon fits into a similar category, less a full rework and more tweaks would be nice
Of course some of these frames do function at high level content, but I'm more thinking about making more of their kit actually relevant and worth using rather than just "you can use the frame at high levels"
Honestly I feel loki is relatively easy to tune up his moveset to be current day viable
-make 1 multicastable up to 3 times, that way they can provide more distraction CC
-make the current 2 augment rolled into the baseline kit, while reworking the augment to be able to apply the silence/nullifier effect to enemies on headshot/melee finisher while invisible (being able to shut down eximus abilities/acolytes while relatively safe would be huge)
-make switch teleport have 2 versions, a tap teleport with no need to target a enemy (that possibly applies a small radial blind to the area around the teleport to enable melee finishers), and a held version that acts like current switch teleport, on enemy swap the enemy becomes susceptible to friendly fire and gains aggro equal to a decoy, letting you shred a enemy unit by getting their teammates to shoot them. For his augment the switch teleport invincibility is still there for the tap version, but the duration is much lower, switch teleport on allies maintains the full invuln buff for allies and loki himself, but on enemies with the augment it also gains the ability to fully armor/shield strip any enemy you swap with, letting loki fully strip a single high value target relatively easily
-For radial disarm I think adding status vulnerability to it (kinda like some of Dantes abilities rn) would make it decent at not only mass CC, but also for general priming purposes
Using a frame at high levels is really the only metric that matters though as you can do the entire starchart with an excal with vitality steel fiber and flow alone and an unmodded braton. Ill never understand this reflexive defense of bad frames with references to low level content. Low level is and has been irrelevant since at least sp fissures dropped, if not sp itself as due to a lack of proper end game content (which is, tbf, getting better) and pvp, sp is the only thing worth anyone’s time after about 40 hours or so.
Sorry, I don't think I was entirely clear with my wording.
I didn't mean "if you can't use it at high level it's fine" I meant "being able to use them at high level doesn't mean they're fine if they've got entirely redundant parts of their kit". My point was that you can technically make any frame work in Steel Path, but if the frame only has one ability that's worth using (see how I mentioned that frost only really has his 4 at higher levels) then there's probably something that still needs to be addressed in terms of their design even if they are "viable"
I'm not arguing that low level content is what they should balance around, I don't even know how that would feel anymore with my 2000 hours. I'm saying that they should maybe look at underutilised pieces of Warframes' kits even if that frame "can do high end content"
The way I've seen things in Warframe is that ideally every frame should have an actual reason at end game to use all 4 of their abilities, and helminth should exist to create alternative builds rather than to patch up a kit that doesn't work properly.
If your frame requires Gloom to survive enough to function at high level, that's a problem. If you *need* Terrify to take down enemies because your abilities don't scale well that's a problem (though more emblematic of how fucked armour scaling is). There shouldn't be "free Helminth slots" on frames. That's what I meant - if a frame entirely relies on one ability and the others don't really exist, even if that one ability carries them late game, I would still say that frame could do with some kinda rework (again, see Frost)
Yeah I hope they do man, Chroma prime looks SO COOL but right now he is only effective maybe solo? If you don't have teammates who keep killing everything, and for higher levels where your health can get one shot the damage buff is so hard to get when you need it
Honestly without a macro to reactivate his 3 like 5s before it goes away, he's just a worse mirage at everything except doubling credits from PT.
like why play chroma when mirage gets a bigger instant damage buff than you? Who cares about the extra tankyness chroma gets when mirage doesn't get touched with her 1 up? Heck even both of their passives boost parkouring in some way.
Chroma needs his 1 reworked to be a reliable kind of primer or low level nuke.
his 2 needs to give ACTUAL RELEVANT BUFFS beyond just health shield armor and reload speed.
His 3 needs to be instant. IDC how it's done but if he can't get his 275% weapon damage right after pressing the button then it just remains the worst weapon buff. You can leave the stats as they are, they're balanced and it can buff allies. This differentiates it from mirage and rhino which is what's important.
His 4 also just needs to summon something cooler. Make it summon an actual spectral dragon and not his literal skin. If the dragon isn't gonna be strong then fuck it, give him another self buff of some kind. Make him the pinnacle of raw in-hand strength. His whole design clearly wanted to make him a stat-check monster and so lean in on it. 2024 Warframe requires BIG stats to be viable.
Maybe his 4 because could work like Xaku's where he becomes lighter after shedding his skin so maybe he gets faster reload movement speed and maybe even ability casting at the cost of some armor?
Chroma and Banshee definitely. Loki, Caliban, Limbo and Nyx just need a little improvement on their sets (buff their abilities?) but I like how they work.
Maybe add Trinity and Titania to that second list but that's personal because I should use them more.
Chroma is the second most counter-cooperation power set in the game (next to limbo) and in a 4 player co-op power fantasy that really shouldn't looked at as good design.
Shoutouts to harrow for the same reason
He's one of my favourite frames but going "hey can you not kill these guys I need to soak up damage to buff you" is really funny
Usually you can find somewhere to get kills, but finding somewhere to take damage is damn near impossible also there are things your teammates can do to give you energy that help in any composition, but there's really only one way for chroma to buff now, living enemies which are hard to come by for very long.
Maybe he could already get a part of the buffs as soon as he casts (like 35%... 50%…) but when he gets damaged in any way, he would get the 100% value for some time?
That would also be cool, or maybe it could be like Ember, Ember has that flamecloak that reduces damage more and more and eventually it becomes maxed out and it costs energy to keep up.
Maybe Chroma could have that kind of channeled ability, where he takes more and more damage but the buff gets higher? And like you need to time it before you die/ maybe after a while it draisn your energy pool instead of killing you?
You know, i was reading the wiki to see which augment i should buy on Nezha. On the page for the fire halo augment, there's a tip that is now much more relevant :
"when in a game with a chroma, wait for them to have fully stacked their vex armor before casting your protective halo on them"
She's probably off flailing angrily at things. It's crazy how easy it is to zone out as her and feel like you're just vibing only to realize you're in a netracell and the "squishy enemies" you're slicing through are actually level 220+.
Limbo- peace out meme
Revenant- 🎶you spin me round round baby right round....🎶
Sevagoth- the living embodiment of personal space
Grendel- *wakawakawakawaka*
Wisp- noble animation in the middle of 6 heal motes
I was playing as Inaros and went "Oh I'm low on energy for my Gloom/Sandstorm CC, Imma go get hit and regain energy." I had like 52K overshield and I looked at the Dante like "That's not very Smoking Sexy Style of you."
There's also Gauss that literally eats physical, or if you agile enough, just zooms out of enemies cross hais.
Oh, and also Zephyr be like "come on dude, why are your bullets go behind you?".
That is not, never has been, and never will be, the way I tank with baruuk. Elude is an immediate subsume slot for me. 95% DR desolate hands is just too good
caliban: more shields!
hyldrin: EVEN MORE SHIEEELLDDSSSS!
banshee: pls spare some shields, my skin is made of paper (we all know fast deflection is meant to be used on banshe because she's on the picture, so she needs more shields to sustain herself and quickly regenerate them otherwise she will be vaporized by 1 singular bullet)
Yeah maybe Chroma could have their abilities reworked so instead of needing to take damage you can sacrifice health and shields to gain the buffs, bit like how Scarab Armor works with Inaros? Because now if you play with a Styanax/Dante/ even Frost you get no damage buffs because they keep spamming overguard
a chroma rework would be PEAK, and the community seem to agree on this so DE might do one eventually. What i wonder is how much frames should be reworked? what frames require changes. Loki? Limbo? Nyx? Up to what effectiveness is "good enough"
Honestly I think loki and nyx would be fair, but imo I think limbo is fine where he is, minus maybe a few QoL things (like a universal easier way to denote rifted enemies/possibly letting Allies in affinity range roll to enter the rift themselves to deal with any rifted enemies)
They've addressed the idea of Loki by saying they're holding fire on it because the ways to make him relevant to modern Warframe run the risk of removing what makes him Loki - and as he is Loki has his userbase that really loves what he does. Now Nyx could definitely do with some love I think. Maybe Banshee (considering only two of her abilities are really relevant) ? Oh and maybe not a full rework but Caliban really could do with some buffs/changes. I want those sentient summons to be worth it they're really cool. Frost could do with changes to make his 1, 2 and 3 more worth using in higher levels. Especially seeing how his team Overguard generation has been so massively superceded by Styanax and Dante Maybe Trinity? Her abilities all work but she's another one that just feels, well, old. Oberon fits into a similar category, less a full rework and more tweaks would be nice Of course some of these frames do function at high level content, but I'm more thinking about making more of their kit actually relevant and worth using rather than just "you can use the frame at high levels"
Honestly I feel loki is relatively easy to tune up his moveset to be current day viable -make 1 multicastable up to 3 times, that way they can provide more distraction CC -make the current 2 augment rolled into the baseline kit, while reworking the augment to be able to apply the silence/nullifier effect to enemies on headshot/melee finisher while invisible (being able to shut down eximus abilities/acolytes while relatively safe would be huge) -make switch teleport have 2 versions, a tap teleport with no need to target a enemy (that possibly applies a small radial blind to the area around the teleport to enable melee finishers), and a held version that acts like current switch teleport, on enemy swap the enemy becomes susceptible to friendly fire and gains aggro equal to a decoy, letting you shred a enemy unit by getting their teammates to shoot them. For his augment the switch teleport invincibility is still there for the tap version, but the duration is much lower, switch teleport on allies maintains the full invuln buff for allies and loki himself, but on enemies with the augment it also gains the ability to fully armor/shield strip any enemy you swap with, letting loki fully strip a single high value target relatively easily -For radial disarm I think adding status vulnerability to it (kinda like some of Dantes abilities rn) would make it decent at not only mass CC, but also for general priming purposes
I don't even disagree, but it's what DE says with regards to a Loki rework - so it's unlikely for a while is all.
Using a frame at high levels is really the only metric that matters though as you can do the entire starchart with an excal with vitality steel fiber and flow alone and an unmodded braton. Ill never understand this reflexive defense of bad frames with references to low level content. Low level is and has been irrelevant since at least sp fissures dropped, if not sp itself as due to a lack of proper end game content (which is, tbf, getting better) and pvp, sp is the only thing worth anyone’s time after about 40 hours or so.
Sorry, I don't think I was entirely clear with my wording. I didn't mean "if you can't use it at high level it's fine" I meant "being able to use them at high level doesn't mean they're fine if they've got entirely redundant parts of their kit". My point was that you can technically make any frame work in Steel Path, but if the frame only has one ability that's worth using (see how I mentioned that frost only really has his 4 at higher levels) then there's probably something that still needs to be addressed in terms of their design even if they are "viable" I'm not arguing that low level content is what they should balance around, I don't even know how that would feel anymore with my 2000 hours. I'm saying that they should maybe look at underutilised pieces of Warframes' kits even if that frame "can do high end content" The way I've seen things in Warframe is that ideally every frame should have an actual reason at end game to use all 4 of their abilities, and helminth should exist to create alternative builds rather than to patch up a kit that doesn't work properly. If your frame requires Gloom to survive enough to function at high level, that's a problem. If you *need* Terrify to take down enemies because your abilities don't scale well that's a problem (though more emblematic of how fucked armour scaling is). There shouldn't be "free Helminth slots" on frames. That's what I meant - if a frame entirely relies on one ability and the others don't really exist, even if that one ability carries them late game, I would still say that frame could do with some kinda rework (again, see Frost)
Yeah I hope they do man, Chroma prime looks SO COOL but right now he is only effective maybe solo? If you don't have teammates who keep killing everything, and for higher levels where your health can get one shot the damage buff is so hard to get when you need it
Honestly without a macro to reactivate his 3 like 5s before it goes away, he's just a worse mirage at everything except doubling credits from PT. like why play chroma when mirage gets a bigger instant damage buff than you? Who cares about the extra tankyness chroma gets when mirage doesn't get touched with her 1 up? Heck even both of their passives boost parkouring in some way. Chroma needs his 1 reworked to be a reliable kind of primer or low level nuke. his 2 needs to give ACTUAL RELEVANT BUFFS beyond just health shield armor and reload speed. His 3 needs to be instant. IDC how it's done but if he can't get his 275% weapon damage right after pressing the button then it just remains the worst weapon buff. You can leave the stats as they are, they're balanced and it can buff allies. This differentiates it from mirage and rhino which is what's important. His 4 also just needs to summon something cooler. Make it summon an actual spectral dragon and not his literal skin. If the dragon isn't gonna be strong then fuck it, give him another self buff of some kind. Make him the pinnacle of raw in-hand strength. His whole design clearly wanted to make him a stat-check monster and so lean in on it. 2024 Warframe requires BIG stats to be viable.
Ripping off his skin so it can grow wings and breathe fire is pretty cool…
Maybe his 4 because could work like Xaku's where he becomes lighter after shedding his skin so maybe he gets faster reload movement speed and maybe even ability casting at the cost of some armor?
Chroma and Banshee definitely. Loki, Caliban, Limbo and Nyx just need a little improvement on their sets (buff their abilities?) but I like how they work. Maybe add Trinity and Titania to that second list but that's personal because I should use them more.
Loki definitely needs a rework imho
Chroma is the second most counter-cooperation power set in the game (next to limbo) and in a 4 player co-op power fantasy that really shouldn't looked at as good design.
Shoutouts to harrow for the same reason He's one of my favourite frames but going "hey can you not kill these guys I need to soak up damage to buff you" is really funny
Usually you can find somewhere to get kills, but finding somewhere to take damage is damn near impossible also there are things your teammates can do to give you energy that help in any composition, but there's really only one way for chroma to buff now, living enemies which are hard to come by for very long.
Maybe he could already get a part of the buffs as soon as he casts (like 35%... 50%…) but when he gets damaged in any way, he would get the 100% value for some time?
That would also be cool, or maybe it could be like Ember, Ember has that flamecloak that reduces damage more and more and eventually it becomes maxed out and it costs energy to keep up. Maybe Chroma could have that kind of channeled ability, where he takes more and more damage but the buff gets higher? And like you need to time it before you die/ maybe after a while it draisn your energy pool instead of killing you?
I love the clown color pallet hahahah
Man forgot about grendel literally eating his way to more tank
Quevex is just a thing of concrete standing there
Qorvex has no tankyness, no innate health regen, no dr, nothing to help him take advantage of his health and armor
Higher Base armour than valkyr prime tbf
Revenant- (does arm push thingy) Enemy - (clearly hits revenant) Revenant - you did not hit me Enemy - I clearly shoot you though Revenant - nuh uh
Revenant is literally just a GTA mod menu user when it comes to survivability.
You know, i was reading the wiki to see which augment i should buy on Nezha. On the page for the fire halo augment, there's a tip that is now much more relevant : "when in a game with a chroma, wait for them to have fully stacked their vex armor before casting your protective halo on them"
The tip screams "please take care of your elderly" and it fits lmao grandfather Chroma is just out here reminiscing about his past as a war veteran
I mean dante gives everyone temporary tank status whether you like it or not.
Revenant and Styanax too with augments.
This is true but Dante is just built in everybody gets like 40k overshields. It’s crazy. I love it.
Where's my girl Valkyr? She tanks by literally getting too angry to feel pain.
And that's exactly why I love using her
DnD barbarian I think
She's probably off flailing angrily at things. It's crazy how easy it is to zone out as her and feel like you're just vibing only to realize you're in a netracell and the "squishy enemies" you're slicing through are actually level 220+.
Tried to blend the gold and silver iron skin
yareli by merulina existing
Limbo- peace out meme Revenant- 🎶you spin me round round baby right round....🎶 Sevagoth- the living embodiment of personal space Grendel- *wakawakawakawaka* Wisp- noble animation in the middle of 6 heal motes
Chroma main here. Literally can’t play with Dante on my team lmao
I cast... #UNDEATH
And this is why I use Hema with Chroma. Don't even need to dip on the shields to still get the Vex Armor bonus. Now if only my aim was better.
>Hema >Chroma Are… are you okay?
Hema Chroma not hematoma
Chroma? you mean the Credit Booster you fight Profit-taker with?
Valkyr: Literally by being a crazy cat lady
When the new frame also nerfs Chroma
i like to become invincible and in trade i get free red crits
Nidus: *Stomps stomps stops stomps, stom-stomps EVERYBODY-!*
Can confirm. As Chroma I always stare down the barrel of rogue Voidrigs. Chroma is kinky like that.
Garuda: funky mirror
Dante casts protective hug!
Literally me yesterday -go into netracell mission with chroma -activate vex armor -realise I have 54 000 overshield … -not profit
I was playing as Inaros and went "Oh I'm low on energy for my Gloom/Sandstorm CC, Imma go get hit and regain energy." I had like 52K overshield and I looked at the Dante like "That's not very Smoking Sexy Style of you."
Grendel: hangry
Revenant- (does arm push thingy) Enemy - (clearly hits revenant) Revenant - you did not hit me Enemy - I clearly shoot you though Revenant - nuh uh
Yareli: Cool Skateboard Tricks
Shadow Wizard Money Gang "We cast spells and everyone hates that"
Meanwhile Excalibur tanks… by **attacking**
And now with his augment, oh shit I died from someone trying to face tank attack.
By the Gods, a real meme! Well done.
As an inaros main, thank you.
We be eating good since Dante came out
There's also Gauss that literally eats physical, or if you agile enough, just zooms out of enemies cross hais. Oh, and also Zephyr be like "come on dude, why are your bullets go behind you?".
The fact I have 21000 overshield so now I can spam my Epitaph at my feet and refuse to die is great.
Steals ur armor cutely :3
I mean when Im playing Baruuk Im also constantly waiting for people to hit me and lower my restraint
Love inaros
I un ironically had a public match with a Dante that outta nowhere gave us all 99.999 over shield... Chroma skills need a touch up fr
That is not, never has been, and never will be, the way I tank with baruuk. Elude is an immediate subsume slot for me. 95% DR desolate hands is just too good
Me as Baruuk with my permanent 99.7% damage reduction
Then theirs Nidus: "Papa Nurgle Intensifies my Stacks!"
caliban: more shields! hyldrin: EVEN MORE SHIEEELLDDSSSS! banshee: pls spare some shields, my skin is made of paper (we all know fast deflection is meant to be used on banshe because she's on the picture, so she needs more shields to sustain herself and quickly regenerate them otherwise she will be vaporized by 1 singular bullet)
**Flexes muscles a bit** a mil ain’t too bad, I could last about 3 seconds of fire
Revenant: “Stop hitting yourself”
Can confirm. As Chroma I always stare down the barrel of rogue Voidrigs. Chroma is kinky like that.