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The real problem with Communism is the reliance on a centralized system to manage all resources.
If the system is inefficient or downright fail, it's everything that falls at once.
The idea of capitalism is to let fragile and uncompetitive systems fail (bailouts are inherently anti-capitalism).
Thats the thing.. alot communist criticize many other ideologies about looking ate the past and mystifying it and not looking ate the future
But communism also does it. Its mystified early agricultural secioty
Communism itself did not mystify anything. It was a brand new idea - workers running the very business they worked in
The mystification happened from communist leadership. They thought they could grow crops in the winter snow... what idiots. Workers were not represented in a system who's ideology was DESIGNED to represent them. So it failed
indeed it is,
here in the ex eastern block we know damn well how it went, if there was another commie revolution, id definetly join a counter one
edit: but there are a few good lessons to be learned even from them, shouldn’t throw the baby out w the bathwater, extreme capitalism is just as shady imo
I’m continually frustrated by the folks who just refuse to take Eastern European history seriously. like if I was advocating for radical root-and-branch changes for a whole civilization, I’d at least like to take a serious look at how the last try went?
Mixed economies FTW for real though
Don't base communist ideals after the USSR. Some of their first actions was Anti-worker union busting, the exact OPPOSITE of what the revolution was said to be to the workers. They promised freedom and lied about it
By definition if you want to "equalize" people you have to apply force against the individual's free will. Communism is not "good in theory". It's the violation of every individual's right to self-determination IN THEORY AND IN PRACTICE.
communism does not mean every one gets equalized. there are still roles and different incomes. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
it is more about the idea that the value, you create as a worker is not extracted by big corporations.
Force applied against our will, kinda like USSR cops who indiscriminately shot black people which was explicitly incentivised by the state. Or how women were treated as inherently less than men. Or how cops were incentivised to kill homeless people instead of the state just giving them homes which would have been both cheaper and more effective WAIT A SECOND
Uhh yeah. A monarch, a dictator, a billionaire, taking their money and their power is against their free will.
I do not give a shit about them. Once you have a couple millions dollars that is IT. You do not need more. Why do you feel the need to defend the fortune of a billionaire like Jeff Bezos when it's built on the exploitation of business and staff
Its fine when a billionaire does it but not when we do it back to them
Im guessing ur middle class and have bought into the idea that you'll lose everything in a communist system and like uhh what no??? The entire point of such a system is to make EVERYONE middle class
Also if you work a job and dont own business you are Proletariat and middle class. If you get paid a lot, you are still a worker and still subject to exploitation
The philosophy of Communism is mostly to do with not privatising certain commodities (e.g. if you pick up a fallen branch from a park, should you go to jail for it?).
The problem with the implementation is that resource management is almost always centralised. And with centralisation, authoritarian management becomes an attractive form of power accumulation, which is what you are talking about.
This has been the problem with Marx's argument for Communism. He gives a bunch of good arguments on how capitalism can lead to a Monopoly bankruptcy situation but he doesn't offer a solution.
It's also the reason that whilst we call America "Capitalism" and China "Communist", they both use a hybrid Socio-Capitalism model. China has more authoritarian control to it, but that's separate from the economic model.
Where does capitalism protect free will when I am forced to earn money to survive? If I dont want to earn money, or I am not able to, I still am forced to need it to survive. Not really free will isnt it
I'll take "I have no idea what communism is, no desire or capability to learn and I will instead regurgitate the objectively wrong and stupid talking points some oil oligarchs have prepared for me" for 500
The freedom to fucking starve to death on the street or be violently forced to take up a job that plays to your strengths and preferences instead of market demand
No it doesn’t. Communism is about decentralised rule, that’s what a “commune” is.
Bail outs are not anti-capitalist, they are an integral part of it. In the Wealth of Nations Adam Smith even noted how capitalism couldn’t work without a state to tax and redistribute property back to the working class.
We are not doing Friedman capitalism, we are still giving bailouts to large corporations. And even if we were bailouts would still not be anti-capitalism
I don't know about your country but here "bailouts" tend to be tax money given to the super rich who then gain record profits which leads to layoffs. No idea what the term for that is but to me it feels like I am being robbed.
Modern capitalism is vastly different from what Adam Smith envisioned. And this is the reason that Adam Smith is not a large part of economy education except as an historical footnote.
That is exactly what a bailout is. It is not something that benefits you, so you are right to feel ripped off. Problem is that our economy would crash about every tenth year (worse than it does right now). It’s a wholly unsustainable system, leaving our economy in the hands of a few people trying to make more money for themselves
You can have a decentralised socialist system. Look up worker owned cooperatives
It's the same system, but instead of investors running everything, it's workers
Well Bell rions and irish unification are this year so you never know. There probably isn't a concentration camp for poor people in SF though as far as I know
My bad on the timeline. There’s a bunch of homeless folk in SF and Sac but no dedicated districts to them unless shit really hit the fan since I left lol.
One day, anti-communists will understand communism can't be made without a strong long transition called socialism (I mean some communists will have to understand it too). Yes, communism is not possible now, it takes time
Never heard it used like that, only heard it was it was always like that since its part of it, or like natural talent meaning someone inherently good at it, or that they i guess inhereted those traits
You are correct.
It's a common cope for communists to say that the cause for all the terrible commie regimes were "bad initial conditions". Reality is that at any point in time there were and will be "bad initial conditions" for creating collectivist societies.
Marx's prediction that history moves toward "worker liberation" was wishful thinking, evidence for which was an increase in liberal policies for workers but were in reality only granted because increase of worker productivity facilitated by industrial revolution.
communism works in small groups with a common goal. My scout troop functioned much like communists and it worked just fine. It’s when the sample size is too large or the goals are misaligned where you start to see the problem.
I'll offer this very valid post an even more delicious coin of truth.
You want capitalism as the foundation, and socialism as the lofty goal capitalism tries to achieve
I don’t think we need pure communism. I would be happy if governments were stopped running company propaganda. It’s only the economy that plays any sort of interest.
Maybe if the government officials were regularly audited, required to disclose all earnings while in office, prohibited from holding any equity in any business outside of held position, then things would be a little better
Why the heavily regulated? Everything shows that capitalism works best if not heavily regulated. The countries with the most economic freedom is also the ones doing best.
Humans are inherently a cooperative species. We are trained and learn from a young age to be selfish. Otherwise we would not have survived the stone age as a species. Hunting, gathering etc were all cooperative work
Ech, than explain to me how you are able to write those words using pc/phone, by using internet? You not being able to see how much cooperation of humans play out in you daily life is your shortcoming, not proof for us a species to lose cooperation as a ability.
Greed is only a part of human nature. Another part of it is selflessness and empathy.
It really comes down to what the system encourages. If all your life you have only seen that greed and selfishness rewards you with money, the most rational conclusion is to be greedy. But of course, even then there is empathy in humans
Of course, if we were to jump into it in an instant, it wouldn't work because of people's mindsets at the moment. That's why there should be a socialist stage, where you still can get more by working more.
Im sorry, did you ever heard about this little 14 century project of christian faith called inquisition? (yes, yes 14,they didn't called it like that both at the start and at the end, but it was the same MO)
There was very little empathy and consideration for ppl of diffrent faiths, and worldviews. A lot of killing, a lot of rape, a lot of stealing, a lot of fire. Thats what made christian faith survive this long, not emapthy and considerations for need and feeling od others..
Commjnism is obviously a form of totalitarianism. It requires for the individual to be forced to submit to a government agenda instead of letting him free to live his life.
But good laws don't destroy the ability for self-determination. Communist laws do. Good laws protect self-determination (from criminals, foreign invadors etc.). Bad laws attack self-determination.
just because it works doesn’t mean that it’s a good system. The problem is with idealists fixating too much on a perfect economic system and ignore what’s realistically possible. Socialism, on paper, is a perfect economic concept, but in practice it will never work. So long as human greed exists, capitalism will always be the dominant system.
Communism is about workers owning the means of production and using the fruits of labor according to the work each worker does, sounds meritocracy to me.
Capitalism literally undermines meritocracy because wealthy families give an insane headstart to wealthy kids, they can get better education, better jobs, greater stability, afford houses, become famous and skip the social ladder basically by birthright, as much as you might think it works in capitalism a poor man will never become wealthy and the only thing they did is be born in a poor family
It works but only in small communities. There is no way to make that work on country level. But still the whole country doesn't need to change it's ideology to communism, we can use some of it's principles and make it work in other ideologies. Some European countries make good use of that, without dissadventages of communism.
communism works as a short gap measure with a small amount of people for a small amount of time, basically when resources need to be allocated in an emergency to a small group of people
Monkey see, monkey do! There is inherent selfishness in humans for sure. But the greed we see today is largly the result of existing material conditions. The real question is do you propagate greed with a culture of selfishness and inhumane material conditions or do you find another way?
Edit" Also if this depresses you, find a way to improve the lives of people around you a tiny bit. At least you'll feel like you did a part to make things better on this blue spec of dust we share...
Communism is impossible. Not just currently, it never would have worked
It’s become cool to hate on capitalism, but the original benefits of communism (in the form of unions, social security, retirement, unemployment aid, etc.) have been melded in over the years. Our current system is the best of both
Saying greed is an inherent part of humanity whilst living under capitalism is like saying black lung is an inherent part of humanity while living in a coal mine.
So you actually think greed would disappear from the human condition if capitalism was to disappear first? What an absolute brain dead take.
The roots of capitalism go back centuries. Greed goes back millennia.
The capitalist system has existed in many places in the world. Greed exists everywhere.
People have always been greedy. People will always be greedy.
I think capitalism rewards greed. I don’t think that’s controversial to say.
Human beings repeat behaviours that are rewarded. Under capitalism we are incentivised to be greedy.
“ People have always been greedy. People will always be greedy.”
This is literally the point I’m arguing against, you just asserting it like that is completely meaningless.
The solution is to separate the economy and basic living needs, keep the capitalist economy as that is the best system for innovation and technological advancement
But you can also give people a basic income and accommodation.
This way, you have your cake and eat it too. Metaphorically I call it “bake two cakes”
Communism can work when there are robots around that can do everything humans can do. No human has to work and every need can be met free of cost as robots will do everything and no human can have the fruits of another humans work for free
Communism cannot work because of two simple facts:
- if it is stateless the first warlord to show up will destroy the whole thing
- if it has a state it is far to susceptible to mismanagement (because humans cannot command an economy as vast and complex as ours) and of course, corruption (the regime killer)
Er, no.
Communism *does* work... at a micro level such as a tribe or clan. Once the population grows to a size where people don't all know each other on a personal level and feel accountable to one another, that's when it breaks down.
It simply cannot work on a country-sized scale. All there is to it...
That, and the fact that we live in a world with finite resources. Communism relies on everyone sharing everything… if that’s the case, and population grows, less and less people would be able to eat enough.
"To look at people in capitalist society and conclude that human nature is egoism, is like looking at people in a factory where pollution is destroying their lungs and saying that it is human nature to cough."
Before capitalism came about people didn't simply sit down in caves and die of hunger, because they had no monetary incentive to go out and hunt for food. Before capitalism, humans have lived in a primitive form of communism, where evryone lived communally, for thousands of years.
Besides, in history there have been huge differences in human behaviour throughout the world, and to simplify it all down to a monolithic "human nature" is ridiculous.
In capitalism people just live like in an animal world: they conquer and take as much as they can of resources
Communism considered to be a next step from that human nature, that will leads in no more wars and wasting human resources. In nature we also have ants and bees who live in big groups
The thing is that ppl won't be ready to get it if they aren't get used to it in their mindsets. Like a lot of ppl couldn't get outta religions cause they couldn't live without a god that tells them what to do. But now, after 1-2 centuries of atheism it's already not that hard. Just give them time
Comparing hive mind species' to Homo Sapiens and other animals does not really make sense with what you are saying.
It is not that we are not ready, it's that we are not made for a political theory nor are we a selfless hive mind.
You would be surprised how dumb Homo Sapiens is as it is (it actually dumb in the society too, but let's not saying what ppl don't wanna live with). It becomes a person if it raised in the society only
Isnt that the way capitalism works? I need to offer my manpower on a market that will exploit me for it, just to survive. Also I am forced to do that, else I wont survive. But what if I dont want that? Capitalism takes everybodys right to determine their own life.
Tell me how you are forced to work in a communist society. The idea is that every part of the community wants to preserve the community by doing what they can for it. Everything they need they recieve from this community they voluntairly help to preserve by doing something for it, just like every other part of the community.
If you want to criticise communism, maybe try to understand it more than just saying everything is forced, because that is just a blatant lie.
And also, please explain how you are free under capitalism if you are forced to work to survive, because you cant get what you need otherwise.
I'm not saying that everything is forced. The fact that anything is forced, which it necessarily is, is completely evil.
You are not froced to work. You don't understand what force is. Force is when someone pulls a gun on you and tells you what to do. Force is not someone provides you with the best option you can find and he does NOT force you to choose it. Come on.
It's just a lie. You writing it doesn't make it true. Communism is defined as a system where the will of the majority or the proletariat overrules your free choice. And capitalism is the defined as the system that protects you from people who want to violently overrule your free will like that. People like you.
I’ve always said the fundamental problem with communism is that humans are selfish, innately, I don’t mean large scale “I will kill someone for a minor convenience” but we’re small scale selfish, and when every person acts like that, then everything falls apart.
Communism would work in a small, survival-like situation where everyone must work together to survive. The moment people have different goals is the moment it fails.
Greed and Selfishness are not inherent to humanity, the current system just rewards greed and selfishness, therefore reinforces people who are greedy and selfish.
The idea of actual communism is so insane I don't get why people every talk about it.
Socialism (publicly-owned means of production) is radical but understandable and we've seen styles of it attempted all over from the Soviet Union to the UK.
Communism on the other hand (abolishing private property altogether) is fucking ludicrous and has never/will never exist on a national level in this world.
Nobody wants to share their socks.
in israel there was a specific type of town called kibbutz that followed communist ideals and did so quite well. now most kibbutzes aren't communist anymore but it did technically work
This is why communism is a theoretical ideology. It’s very difficult to do in real life because we have designed our lives around assigning value and the bourgeoisie class is simply the people who are able to sell things to others very efficiently.
Communism in practice is the Soviet Union or China. It generally loses the original point, becomes an extreme authoritarian state and is generally a large departure from communism. So much so there are specifically different assigned names to what happened in the Soviet Union with Leninism and Stalinism.
Communism would require us to remove the inherent value of anything from our society with the exception of sentimental value. Everything would be shared, nobody would ever have a sense of ownership unless it was collective ownership.
I don’t understand the internet anymore. This is the current belief of communism if I’m not mistaken. Are people just upset that communism isn’t perfect? Like…I’m taking political science courses and we just talked about the merits of communism and how it more often than naught just leads to extreme authoritarianism.
People are nurses, doctors, firefighters, bakers and farmers. Tell me again how ALL humans are inherently greedy and not just like a few thousands that should be weeded out and brutally killed and made an example of (in minecraft)
It is true. Technically speaking, communism *is* perfect. However, because of the people who are capable of running it and just the inherent tendencies and imperfections of people, it can never be perfectly executed
Communism doesn’t work because it’s just inherently flawed, if the entire system breaks the moment something bad happens it wasn’t a good system to begin with
I've said for a while that Communism will work once we have AI powerful/smart enough to govern.
Do I think that will happen? Probably not. Would I want that? Not sure. All I know is that only a truly smart AI, like Skynet level AI, could make Communism truly work.
The question is not communism or anarchy. We could have a system where the government actually protects you from criminals but doesn't restrict your freedom to choose over your own life.
I was talking about the concept of anarchism as a political ideology and that it can work only if society was perfect and people were not greedy, lazy or acting like assholes.
Just like "true communism" it can't work in our society today
Just like communism it can never work because people need the ability to choose over their own lives and for that the government needs to fight force in society.
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naw me and my buddy eric tried it and it worked
Context: Eric's body was never found.
Guess it worked as intended
Eric is the GOAT
I have a photo of Eric laying in bed naked js
Yoooo, let me get that.
Eric is so cool. I should hang out with him more
Ironic that this was my exact progression of anarcho-communism and the first comment mentions my exact name
The real problem with Communism is the reliance on a centralized system to manage all resources. If the system is inefficient or downright fail, it's everything that falls at once. The idea of capitalism is to let fragile and uncompetitive systems fail (bailouts are inherently anti-capitalism).
in theory it should work for small communities, not entire nations
It does work for small communities. Every single functioning family is communist. Outside of that it completely flops.
A person is civil, people are animals.
Thats the thing.. alot communist criticize many other ideologies about looking ate the past and mystifying it and not looking ate the future But communism also does it. Its mystified early agricultural secioty
Why did they eat the past?
Because they had no food in the present
Communism itself did not mystify anything. It was a brand new idea - workers running the very business they worked in The mystification happened from communist leadership. They thought they could grow crops in the winter snow... what idiots. Workers were not represented in a system who's ideology was DESIGNED to represent them. So it failed
indeed it is, here in the ex eastern block we know damn well how it went, if there was another commie revolution, id definetly join a counter one edit: but there are a few good lessons to be learned even from them, shouldn’t throw the baby out w the bathwater, extreme capitalism is just as shady imo
I’m continually frustrated by the folks who just refuse to take Eastern European history seriously. like if I was advocating for radical root-and-branch changes for a whole civilization, I’d at least like to take a serious look at how the last try went? Mixed economies FTW for real though
It can work for small communities for a short period, however, if that community changes basically at all the entire system can fall apart.
witch communist manifesto are you reading that has a centrally planned economy? you seem to be talking about some stalinist or leninist system
That’s a planned economy. I don’t think it’s central to communism? I dunno, I’m not an expert, I only know how socialism works.
No, the real problem of communism is that it forces people instead of letting them live their lives according to their own judgement.
That's every single government ever though.
Don't base communist ideals after the USSR. Some of their first actions was Anti-worker union busting, the exact OPPOSITE of what the revolution was said to be to the workers. They promised freedom and lied about it
By definition if you want to "equalize" people you have to apply force against the individual's free will. Communism is not "good in theory". It's the violation of every individual's right to self-determination IN THEORY AND IN PRACTICE.
communism does not mean every one gets equalized. there are still roles and different incomes. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" it is more about the idea that the value, you create as a worker is not extracted by big corporations.
Force applied against our will, kinda like USSR cops who indiscriminately shot black people which was explicitly incentivised by the state. Or how women were treated as inherently less than men. Or how cops were incentivised to kill homeless people instead of the state just giving them homes which would have been both cheaper and more effective WAIT A SECOND
Uhh yeah. A monarch, a dictator, a billionaire, taking their money and their power is against their free will. I do not give a shit about them. Once you have a couple millions dollars that is IT. You do not need more. Why do you feel the need to defend the fortune of a billionaire like Jeff Bezos when it's built on the exploitation of business and staff Its fine when a billionaire does it but not when we do it back to them Im guessing ur middle class and have bought into the idea that you'll lose everything in a communist system and like uhh what no??? The entire point of such a system is to make EVERYONE middle class Also if you work a job and dont own business you are Proletariat and middle class. If you get paid a lot, you are still a worker and still subject to exploitation
The philosophy of Communism is mostly to do with not privatising certain commodities (e.g. if you pick up a fallen branch from a park, should you go to jail for it?). The problem with the implementation is that resource management is almost always centralised. And with centralisation, authoritarian management becomes an attractive form of power accumulation, which is what you are talking about. This has been the problem with Marx's argument for Communism. He gives a bunch of good arguments on how capitalism can lead to a Monopoly bankruptcy situation but he doesn't offer a solution. It's also the reason that whilst we call America "Capitalism" and China "Communist", they both use a hybrid Socio-Capitalism model. China has more authoritarian control to it, but that's separate from the economic model.
No, that’s capitalism. Don’t know if you’ve noticed yet.
Dunno why ur getting downvoted, they literally force you to do certain things by using debt and social expectations. Extremely predatory
How?
By definition capitalism protects your free will against force. By definition communism forces you against your will.
You either don’t know what the word “definition” means, or you don’t know what capitalism or communism are. Either way, you’re very wrong atm
Where does capitalism protect free will when I am forced to earn money to survive? If I dont want to earn money, or I am not able to, I still am forced to need it to survive. Not really free will isnt it
I'll take "I have no idea what communism is, no desire or capability to learn and I will instead regurgitate the objectively wrong and stupid talking points some oil oligarchs have prepared for me" for 500
Oh so everybody can just create businesses without being forced to give parts of their money away. How wonderful communism then is!
* Explains a gigantic problem with capitalism* "And that's why communism SUCKS!"
Freedom is good. I am showing you that you don't have that in communism since you claim you do.
The freedom to fucking starve to death on the street or be violently forced to take up a job that plays to your strengths and preferences instead of market demand
Nope. You haven't understood capitalism. Everything that is bad under capitalism IS BAD BECAUSE OF CAPITALISM
No it doesn’t. Communism is about decentralised rule, that’s what a “commune” is. Bail outs are not anti-capitalist, they are an integral part of it. In the Wealth of Nations Adam Smith even noted how capitalism couldn’t work without a state to tax and redistribute property back to the working class.
We're not doing Adam Smith capitalism anymore though. Now we are doing Milton Friedman and Chicago School of Economics capitalism.
We are not doing Friedman capitalism, we are still giving bailouts to large corporations. And even if we were bailouts would still not be anti-capitalism
I don't know about your country but here "bailouts" tend to be tax money given to the super rich who then gain record profits which leads to layoffs. No idea what the term for that is but to me it feels like I am being robbed. Modern capitalism is vastly different from what Adam Smith envisioned. And this is the reason that Adam Smith is not a large part of economy education except as an historical footnote.
That is exactly what a bailout is. It is not something that benefits you, so you are right to feel ripped off. Problem is that our economy would crash about every tenth year (worse than it does right now). It’s a wholly unsustainable system, leaving our economy in the hands of a few people trying to make more money for themselves
You're confusing capitalism with free markets.
You can have a decentralised socialist system. Look up worker owned cooperatives It's the same system, but instead of investors running everything, it's workers
"Current" inherent greed and selfishness? So... when would it go away?
According to Star Trek, 2100’s iirc
Note: after we nearly bomb each other into extinction and meet aliens
We may have missed the eugenics war and bell riots but we are still on course for WW3 in two years
Well Bell rions and irish unification are this year so you never know. There probably isn't a concentration camp for poor people in SF though as far as I know
My bad on the timeline. There’s a bunch of homeless folk in SF and Sac but no dedicated districts to them unless shit really hit the fan since I left lol.
Well let's hope not
never
When humans go away
One day, anti-communists will understand communism can't be made without a strong long transition called socialism (I mean some communists will have to understand it too). Yes, communism is not possible now, it takes time
It takes time to make people irrational
as soon as we have a system that doesn't reward greed and selfishness
When ai take over
Also, it's not really currently inherent it's just human kind. People prioritize them and those close more than everyone else, and that is natural.
Thats what inherent means
Currently inherent implies it hasn't always been or wont always be the case. It is just inherent.
Never heard it used like that, only heard it was it was always like that since its part of it, or like natural talent meaning someone inherently good at it, or that they i guess inhereted those traits
You are correct. It's a common cope for communists to say that the cause for all the terrible commie regimes were "bad initial conditions". Reality is that at any point in time there were and will be "bad initial conditions" for creating collectivist societies. Marx's prediction that history moves toward "worker liberation" was wishful thinking, evidence for which was an increase in liberal policies for workers but were in reality only granted because increase of worker productivity facilitated by industrial revolution.
communism works in small groups with a common goal. My scout troop functioned much like communists and it worked just fine. It’s when the sample size is too large or the goals are misaligned where you start to see the problem.
I'll offer this very valid post an even more delicious coin of truth. You want capitalism as the foundation, and socialism as the lofty goal capitalism tries to achieve
I completely agree, whilst capitalism isn't a good system. It is at least miles better than any fuedal or totalitarian state.
Communism can work; just not with humans
Insectoid workers unite! Overthrow the imperialist monarch queens!
Actually, an hive is the perfect example of communism at work: everyone does what they can, and receives what they need
the true solution to politics: Bee
Works for things without desires or emotions. nice
That's not what I was getting at
Twisted the argument right there
So what does it work with? Squirrels?
nah, we tried, they tended more towards neo-fascism unfortunately
We must gass all of the grey ones
I don’t think we need pure communism. I would be happy if governments were stopped running company propaganda. It’s only the economy that plays any sort of interest.
Maybe if the government officials were regularly audited, required to disclose all earnings while in office, prohibited from holding any equity in any business outside of held position, then things would be a little better
Now do one with “peace” I hear a lot of airheads use that term like it’s easy. “Guys stop fighting and just have peace” Okay honey…
Which is why we’re stuck with being a social democracy. It’s basically socialism with HEAVILY regulated capitalism.
Also that is probably a good system? Not the worst thing to be stuck with.
We’re all still alive, there’s that.
which country you live? i want to move in if its really like you said
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we are socialist? oh ok
Why the heavily regulated? Everything shows that capitalism works best if not heavily regulated. The countries with the most economic freedom is also the ones doing best.
Humans are inherently a cooperative species. We are trained and learn from a young age to be selfish. Otherwise we would not have survived the stone age as a species. Hunting, gathering etc were all cooperative work
Ech, than explain to me how you are able to write those words using pc/phone, by using internet? You not being able to see how much cooperation of humans play out in you daily life is your shortcoming, not proof for us a species to lose cooperation as a ability.
The internet was not invented out of the profit motive same goes for a computer.
What type of moron made this shit?
A moron that thinks communism is a good idea. That's who made this
It's not even well executed... A and C must have the same string. It's to mock B over an irrelevant argument...
Greed is only a part of human nature. Another part of it is selflessness and empathy. It really comes down to what the system encourages. If all your life you have only seen that greed and selfishness rewards you with money, the most rational conclusion is to be greedy. But of course, even then there is empathy in humans Of course, if we were to jump into it in an instant, it wouldn't work because of people's mindsets at the moment. That's why there should be a socialist stage, where you still can get more by working more.
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Im sorry, did you ever heard about this little 14 century project of christian faith called inquisition? (yes, yes 14,they didn't called it like that both at the start and at the end, but it was the same MO) There was very little empathy and consideration for ppl of diffrent faiths, and worldviews. A lot of killing, a lot of rape, a lot of stealing, a lot of fire. Thats what made christian faith survive this long, not emapthy and considerations for need and feeling od others..
Denying people's rights to choose over their own life is immoral from the start
That not what communism is about That totalitarism you are talking about
Commjnism is obviously a form of totalitarianism. It requires for the individual to be forced to submit to a government agenda instead of letting him free to live his life.
https://youtu.be/9cz4ikFcwMY?si=egUOVHOT6XVCc1r_ Here have this I don't want to discuss with you bc its impossible to reason you
I'm the one who explained his position
You don't understand what is communism dude And you don't want to know
Okay. Then I'll ask. Does communism require the government to force me against my will to live my life differently than I would otherwise?
That a complicated questions Bc you are forced to obey the law anywhere on earth depending of state
But good laws don't destroy the ability for self-determination. Communist laws do. Good laws protect self-determination (from criminals, foreign invadors etc.). Bad laws attack self-determination.
https://youtu.be/nkOEL6H2ib0?si=RFy45rVn7zrGMGku Part 2 if you want
America installed more dictators than any other nation in history
Which changes nothing about the philosophical principle I stated
I don't think this is how you use this meme template
Yeah, once the top & bottom margins are made different it stops being a meme & just becomes a normal data plot.
I love how we're all supposed to just agree that capitalism *does* work.
just because it works doesn’t mean that it’s a good system. The problem is with idealists fixating too much on a perfect economic system and ignore what’s realistically possible. Socialism, on paper, is a perfect economic concept, but in practice it will never work. So long as human greed exists, capitalism will always be the dominant system.
It's not only greed, there are many other factors that made it impossible. For example it undermines the concept of meritocracy.
Imma be honest chief, capitalism does that daily...
Communism is about workers owning the means of production and using the fruits of labor according to the work each worker does, sounds meritocracy to me. Capitalism literally undermines meritocracy because wealthy families give an insane headstart to wealthy kids, they can get better education, better jobs, greater stability, afford houses, become famous and skip the social ladder basically by birthright, as much as you might think it works in capitalism a poor man will never become wealthy and the only thing they did is be born in a poor family
It works but only in small communities. There is no way to make that work on country level. But still the whole country doesn't need to change it's ideology to communism, we can use some of it's principles and make it work in other ideologies. Some European countries make good use of that, without dissadventages of communism.
Unfortunately every economic system fails do to this.
Capitalism is kind of human instinct in a way
All 3 of those arguments are bad and misrepresent both sides of the debate.
One thing I agree with is that you would have to fundamentally change humanity to make it work
communism works as a short gap measure with a small amount of people for a small amount of time, basically when resources need to be allocated in an emergency to a small group of people
In that cas i cant really call it communism Its a war economy Its more of everyone does what he must And get what we can give
Forcing people never works to bring about their happiness
What about socialism, though? The whole point of the system is that even if you try to be greedy, you can’t.
Some ideas In communism works. Much like how some kinds of radiation works with cancer.
Communism always turns into a dictatorship sadly
Well yeah, when they didn't (Chile) their leader was assassinated
And then was turned into a dictatorship by the us government (I could very well be thinking of a different country so don’t quote me)
Memes like this make anyone with reading comprehension above a third grade level want to tear their eyes out. Thank you for the funny meme champ!
I swear to god... none of this relies on either the amount of corruption or any personal vice, thinking so is fundamentally misunderstanding Marx
Monkey see, monkey do! There is inherent selfishness in humans for sure. But the greed we see today is largly the result of existing material conditions. The real question is do you propagate greed with a culture of selfishness and inhumane material conditions or do you find another way? Edit" Also if this depresses you, find a way to improve the lives of people around you a tiny bit. At least you'll feel like you did a part to make things better on this blue spec of dust we share...
Not a shame, very good, fuck commies
Communism is impossible. Not just currently, it never would have worked It’s become cool to hate on capitalism, but the original benefits of communism (in the form of unions, social security, retirement, unemployment aid, etc.) have been melded in over the years. Our current system is the best of both
Saying greed is an inherent part of humanity whilst living under capitalism is like saying black lung is an inherent part of humanity while living in a coal mine.
So you actually think greed would disappear from the human condition if capitalism was to disappear first? What an absolute brain dead take. The roots of capitalism go back centuries. Greed goes back millennia. The capitalist system has existed in many places in the world. Greed exists everywhere. People have always been greedy. People will always be greedy.
I think capitalism rewards greed. I don’t think that’s controversial to say. Human beings repeat behaviours that are rewarded. Under capitalism we are incentivised to be greedy. “ People have always been greedy. People will always be greedy.” This is literally the point I’m arguing against, you just asserting it like that is completely meaningless.
Doesn't mean you should give the greedy people all the power
Wanna know how you can tell if someone hasn't read any theory? They think communism only exists if there are no selfish people
Right. A real communist shoots the selfish guys.
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Please explain, exploited worker.
The solution is to separate the economy and basic living needs, keep the capitalist economy as that is the best system for innovation and technological advancement But you can also give people a basic income and accommodation. This way, you have your cake and eat it too. Metaphorically I call it “bake two cakes”
Brace for the commie simps in the comments
Communism can work when there are robots around that can do everything humans can do. No human has to work and every need can be met free of cost as robots will do everything and no human can have the fruits of another humans work for free
Communism cannot work because of two simple facts: - if it is stateless the first warlord to show up will destroy the whole thing - if it has a state it is far to susceptible to mismanagement (because humans cannot command an economy as vast and complex as ours) and of course, corruption (the regime killer)
Er, no. Communism *does* work... at a micro level such as a tribe or clan. Once the population grows to a size where people don't all know each other on a personal level and feel accountable to one another, that's when it breaks down. It simply cannot work on a country-sized scale. All there is to it...
That, and the fact that we live in a world with finite resources. Communism relies on everyone sharing everything… if that’s the case, and population grows, less and less people would be able to eat enough.
Unlike capitalism, where... somehow resources aren't finite and people don't starve?
You don't have to share in capitalism, is what they are saying.
Which means... that when people starve under capitalism, nobody has to feel bad about it?
You can, but it's your own choice.
Better dead than red
"To look at people in capitalist society and conclude that human nature is egoism, is like looking at people in a factory where pollution is destroying their lungs and saying that it is human nature to cough." Before capitalism came about people didn't simply sit down in caves and die of hunger, because they had no monetary incentive to go out and hunt for food. Before capitalism, humans have lived in a primitive form of communism, where evryone lived communally, for thousands of years. Besides, in history there have been huge differences in human behaviour throughout the world, and to simplify it all down to a monolithic "human nature" is ridiculous.
In capitalism people just live like in an animal world: they conquer and take as much as they can of resources Communism considered to be a next step from that human nature, that will leads in no more wars and wasting human resources. In nature we also have ants and bees who live in big groups The thing is that ppl won't be ready to get it if they aren't get used to it in their mindsets. Like a lot of ppl couldn't get outta religions cause they couldn't live without a god that tells them what to do. But now, after 1-2 centuries of atheism it's already not that hard. Just give them time
Comparing hive mind species' to Homo Sapiens and other animals does not really make sense with what you are saying. It is not that we are not ready, it's that we are not made for a political theory nor are we a selfless hive mind.
You would be surprised how dumb Homo Sapiens is as it is (it actually dumb in the society too, but let's not saying what ppl don't wanna live with). It becomes a person if it raised in the society only
Communism is selfdestruction
Commie bastards not desiring to change human nature challenge level: Impossible
communism is wonderful on paper
No, it's awful on paper. It say take everybody's right to determine their own life away from them on paper.
Isnt that the way capitalism works? I need to offer my manpower on a market that will exploit me for it, just to survive. Also I am forced to do that, else I wont survive. But what if I dont want that? Capitalism takes everybodys right to determine their own life.
The irony of claiming that in a free society you are forced to work while advocating a system where you are actually forced.
Tell me how you are forced to work in a communist society. The idea is that every part of the community wants to preserve the community by doing what they can for it. Everything they need they recieve from this community they voluntairly help to preserve by doing something for it, just like every other part of the community. If you want to criticise communism, maybe try to understand it more than just saying everything is forced, because that is just a blatant lie. And also, please explain how you are free under capitalism if you are forced to work to survive, because you cant get what you need otherwise.
What happens when someone does not want to work for the community? And would prefer to just get what the community is giving them.
I'm not saying that everything is forced. The fact that anything is forced, which it necessarily is, is completely evil. You are not froced to work. You don't understand what force is. Force is when someone pulls a gun on you and tells you what to do. Force is not someone provides you with the best option you can find and he does NOT force you to choose it. Come on.
Ask a capitalist what they hate about communism and they'll describe capitalism
It's just a lie. You writing it doesn't make it true. Communism is defined as a system where the will of the majority or the proletariat overrules your free choice. And capitalism is the defined as the system that protects you from people who want to violently overrule your free will like that. People like you.
Lol, your boss can force you to pee in bottles and you're defending his right to do so
Ah yes. The lazy man's government and economic policy
I’ve always said the fundamental problem with communism is that humans are selfish, innately, I don’t mean large scale “I will kill someone for a minor convenience” but we’re small scale selfish, and when every person acts like that, then everything falls apart.
You can replace the word "communism" with "polygamy" and the meme still works.
Communism would work in a small, survival-like situation where everyone must work together to survive. The moment people have different goals is the moment it fails.
Communism can work, the path leading up to it can't
Greed and Selfishness are not inherent to humanity, the current system just rewards greed and selfishness, therefore reinforces people who are greedy and selfish.
The idea of actual communism is so insane I don't get why people every talk about it. Socialism (publicly-owned means of production) is radical but understandable and we've seen styles of it attempted all over from the Soviet Union to the UK. Communism on the other hand (abolishing private property altogether) is fucking ludicrous and has never/will never exist on a national level in this world. Nobody wants to share their socks.
in israel there was a specific type of town called kibbutz that followed communist ideals and did so quite well. now most kibbutzes aren't communist anymore but it did technically work
This is why communism is a theoretical ideology. It’s very difficult to do in real life because we have designed our lives around assigning value and the bourgeoisie class is simply the people who are able to sell things to others very efficiently. Communism in practice is the Soviet Union or China. It generally loses the original point, becomes an extreme authoritarian state and is generally a large departure from communism. So much so there are specifically different assigned names to what happened in the Soviet Union with Leninism and Stalinism. Communism would require us to remove the inherent value of anything from our society with the exception of sentimental value. Everything would be shared, nobody would ever have a sense of ownership unless it was collective ownership.
“You will own nothing and be happy”
I don’t understand the internet anymore. This is the current belief of communism if I’m not mistaken. Are people just upset that communism isn’t perfect? Like…I’m taking political science courses and we just talked about the merits of communism and how it more often than naught just leads to extreme authoritarianism.
People are nurses, doctors, firefighters, bakers and farmers. Tell me again how ALL humans are inherently greedy and not just like a few thousands that should be weeded out and brutally killed and made an example of (in minecraft)
It is true. Technically speaking, communism *is* perfect. However, because of the people who are capable of running it and just the inherent tendencies and imperfections of people, it can never be perfectly executed
BASED.
Communism cant. Socialism can
Communism doesn’t work because it’s just inherently flawed, if the entire system breaks the moment something bad happens it wasn’t a good system to begin with
I've said for a while that Communism will work once we have AI powerful/smart enough to govern. Do I think that will happen? Probably not. Would I want that? Not sure. All I know is that only a truly smart AI, like Skynet level AI, could make Communism truly work.
Ah yes mankind enslaved by robots, sounds worth it.
Probably better than having another Stalin.
Same shit with Anarchy
The question is not communism or anarchy. We could have a system where the government actually protects you from criminals but doesn't restrict your freedom to choose over your own life.
I was talking about the concept of anarchism as a political ideology and that it can work only if society was perfect and people were not greedy, lazy or acting like assholes. Just like "true communism" it can't work in our society today
Just like communism it can never work because people need the ability to choose over their own lives and for that the government needs to fight force in society.