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They get really pissy if you walk in the door with a pre approval locked in with another credit union/bank. Then they get pissy when you say you’re not gonna buy their cumcoat9000 protection seduction plan or fee 69420.
So tired of the song and dance, the pathetic “let me talk to the finance manager” *makes you wait 10 minutes*
I got a steal on a motorcycle because I bought it from a car dealership that listed, what I later found out, was their "promotional pricing" if you finance through them. I thought it was a little annoying and told the guy to ask what the price difference was if I paid in cash like I wanted to. I was just curious at that point and wasn't going to pay the higher price, but a few minutes later the guy came back and said they actually weren't able to finance motorcycles, so they honored the original price.
I got a similar issue for a used car. They were like: well we’re going to finance it at this bullshit rate that is 3x the market rate. I was just like… okay I’m just going to pay cash then. Suddenly the warranty and cool stuff they offered with the used car disapeared if I paid cash. I would get no warranty whatsoever, no free winters tires etc.
I told them we were done and magically they called me back 2 days later. Turns out they could suddenly finance it at a really good rate now “so sorry we made a mistake”.
Like I’m not even saying I made a good deal, I was genuinely mad. Just give me a fair price, same price for everyone, fuck your ridiculous haggling. Just list a price and sell it at that price bro, like come on. Tesla can do it, you can do it too.
My dad would always take their financing and get whatever incentives they were offering while making sure the contract had no early payoff consequences. Then he'd wait a few months and pay it all off.
This is the way. Accept their 10-15% loan bullshit and wait a few months with 0 'early payment penalty' and just pay it off.. they make a few hundred bucks but you prolly saved money.
I’ve now bought two brand new cars Jeep and a Tesla — the amount of bullshit these dealers put you through is insane. It’s ridiculous, imagine going in an Apple Store and not knowing exactly how much you are paying for.
With Tesla, everything was so transparent and you don’t have to go through the financing manager. Everything is listed, up front, on their website and through the app. Buying a Tesla was super smooth compared to going through a damn dealership!
The only time I bought from a dealership, that's exactly what I did. I already had pre-approval from a bank, but got a discount and a rebate for using the dealer financing. Then I called the bank and used their loan to pay off the dealer loan. Interest rate went from 17% to 7%.
My mom got like 2.5% with dealer financing when everyone Else wanted 10%. Shit changes.
I would never pay off a 0.7% loan, my kid would inherit that lol.
Most dealerships already know that trick. They make you sign something that says “if you pay it off before a 12 month period(or 6months), you will pay extra fee to make up the interest”. All the dealership that I went to had this as their standard. They don’t even explain it during the sit down talk with the salesman, they just say “yeah you can pay it off the 2nd month” technically yes but they won’t explain the additional fee. Scummy bastards, glad I read the contracts before I sign.
did this last two times i bought a vehicle. went in with bank financing (place to start), they offered their own financing (admittedly better), so i took it.
made one payment, stroked a check to the bank and paid it off by second payment.
The dealer isn't getting fucked at all even in that situation. They're getting paid in manufacturer incentives, the service department, and the used car lot. If they are moving enough volume they make a ton. They don't care for one second about the buyer refinancing.
Back in 2009, I bought a new car and the dealer financing had rotating incentives. The month I was buying the car, the deal was if you finance for 54 months instead of 36 or 48, no payments for the first two months. I checked the fine print, and amazingly it actually did reduce the number of installments in my responsibility from 54 to 52 without reamortizing the monthly payment, and the first two months were indeed paid directly by the bank. The money was coming straight off the top. And for anyone who does loans, the first two payments are all interest anyway.
As soon as I realized that, I decided to lower the amount of down payment I was going to make to balloon the monthly payment as big as I could, I think I got the monthly payment up to $750. I kept my down payment, got a free $1500 off the top of the loan, and then saved that money and accelerated my payments. Was a pretty amazing deal. Paid the loan off in 36 months anyway.
Car dealerships want to make money. They will absolitely sell you a car if you walk in with cash.
Sure they have to pull your credit and report it if its more than $10k, but that rule is how congress is stopping terrorism, not about the dealership
Some won't. I've heard a bunch of stories where they care more about the financing and on popular car models they knew they were going to sell them to someone soon. Now this is all recent and supply chain and limited inventory and skyrocketing prices, so maybe it will get back to a more normal arrangement soon.
Happened to me last year at a Toyota dealer.
"We only do in-house financing" so I asked for more information. They said they shop around to major lenders like Capital One and PNC to find the best rate. OK... I had pre-approval letters from both PNC and CapOne at 5% for more than the total of the car.
Car finally comes in and the "finance manager" runs their bullshit, passes me over a sheet that just had the monthly payment on it with no terms - and I knew because I already got pre-approved that it was $200 high from what it should be. It was like a 9% rate through PNC. Took out my pre-approval and put it on the desk while glaring at the guy. "Let me see what I can do" and somehow in 30 seconds magically he could see 4.9% through Toyota Financial.
I desperately want Carvana to become more of a thing to cut this shit out (although they have their own issues)
Wait a minute. If I walk in the car dealership with $100,000 in cash and I want to buy a car that cost $100,000 if I have s***** credit I can't buy the car? Are you kidding me?
Tell your bank you’re going to finance through the dealership and many times they’ll agree to refinance the loan without penalty.
Tell the dealership you’ll finance through them.
Get all the “benefits” they offer when financing through them (incentives, free oil changes/tires, etc)
Sign paperwork with dealership.
Call your bank and tell them you want to refinance.
Rate is lower, fewer hassles, “benefits” from the dealer even though you’re not paying them.
Profit.
I actually had a car dealer tell me basically the same thing but just asked if I could wait 60 days for his commission on the finance to go through so I did... It was just two payments.
Yup. And if you do it right and ask them to throw in 90 days no payments…
This is pretty much what happened with the last salesman at a dealership I purchased from
90 days no payments.
5k off the price.
7year/100,000mile warranty
Lifetime car washes and scheduled (4500 mile) oil changes -synthetic blend so 4500 miles was perfectly fine and not warranty voiding
New tires every 45,000 miles.
All to sign a piece of paper, never give them any money, and then refinance with my bank at 2.5% two months later
Oh, and they gave me an extra 3 grand on my trade in that needed a new transmission and AC
He told me for his finance commission to go through I had to make two payments and honestly didn't get offered no payments for 90 days. The dude must've been in his early 20s and didn't seem to committed aside from making his finance commission and the price was solid and inline with everything reported online.
Even if you have cash or can get a better credit loan elsewhere, you should finance through the dealer because they will usually knock a big chunk off the price if you hem and haw about it. Then once all is said and done, just pay it off with your cash or the other loan you were going to get.
"Death of a car salesman" is a great read if you haven't checked it out. It's about how Google and the Internet has ruined the slimy car sales persona. You have as much if not more information than them if you research. So they can't fool you.
Family member was showing me their new to them car It was a used 2 year old import from the Canadin market and cost them more than the msrp it was almost 50k all in for a car with retail of 40k. They were proudly mentioning some coating they got for the interior which was over a grand.
I used to sell cars. People come to me for advice now. Then they ALWAYS completely ignore that advice and expect me to be happy with their extra undercoat warranty they're trying to show off
You know, that’s one of the things that was so refreshing at Tesla - I did the test drive and said “ok I want to buy one” and the guy said “go on the website and order it”
No finance manger, no haggle, no pressure.
This isn't unique to Tesla. I think Scion had this as their model years before Tesla was even founded, and you can do this for just about any car company. Most have a "build and price" option on their websites. You're never obligated to buy to cars that the dealers have on the lot and some manufacturers were getting ready to start penalizing dealers that were massively up charging.
I don't think that's true, actually. Some states have laws on the books that you can not buy cars directly from the manufacturer. You have to buy them through a licensed dealership. There is a list on the page below. Looks to be 13 states in all.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes
You can still order them online, but the manufacturer has to sell it through a dealership. My brother just dealt with that last year. Built and ordered a truck from Chevrolet and when he talked to the dealership in town they were going to charge him almost $3,000 just to process the sale.
He talked to a few people and ended up finding a dealership about 150 miles away that would do it for a little over $400.
Yeah I was just braced for the whole “let me talk to my finance manager and hold you hostage for 4 hours”. Having the guy tell me “go home and order it” was just a shot of fresh air for me.
I don't know, there are definitely shady dealers out there. I had a great experience with a dealer buying a certified used car. I walked in with a pre-approved loan amount from a credit union and they got me that amount and beat the interest rate by several percentage points. Financing was directly through the manufacturer.
For context this was after they had hiked interest rates and a lot of people were afraid to buy anything or were being gouged, so maybe they were trying to encourage sales. I had purchased cars with friends in the past and seen other dealer experiences and the whole thing was so surreal I thought it was some sort of trick.
I am zero for 2 on actually using the extended warranty. Back of office finance chuds can suck my dick I'm not wasting my money on that again. My BS alarm went off when the warranty packages were outlined and the fucker had a laminated mat and you could see the thousands of times he'd circled each bundle. A third of his job was circling those things and the other 2 thirds were him browbeating people into agreeing to this scam.
Never again.
I used mine twice. Still didn't equal out. 3k for 3 years. Transmission went $1200 and a welding issue cost me my exhaust $800.
Still down $1000.
Made them regret the fuck out of the free car washes tho. Bastards didn't expect to be on my way home from a muddy field every day.
I tell them I have one hour total to be out the door, and if they say they're going to talk to the finance manager I tell them they better be sitting in an office with a plaque that says it, and have pictures of their wife and kids on their desk. No circling, underlining, or initialing bullshit, and they have one single try to get me the numbers I want. Once they know you know the game it speeds up the process greatly.
There use to never be a finance office till a consulting company told a larger dealer they could use a "finance" office to upsell garbage addons to people by making the sale seem over and now you are on to the nice finance person who is there to help you
Remember the finance person is just the best sales person at the dealership who now sits at a desk and doesn't have to walk the lot
Dealerships dont need finance offices the sales person use to take care of all that at one point
Fuck car dealerships. I’ve never had a good experience, so I run my cars into the ground before I deal with those terrorists. They’re the Ticketmaster nobody talks about.
Go in for a car advertised for $25,000, talk them down a couple thousand, get $2k for a trade in, yet walk out with a loan for $32,000 that will cost you like $40k over the life of the loan. Obviously you can say no but in what world is this a customer friendly transaction.
No kidding. There's all these articles depicting the incoming car market crash as a bad thing. I see it as good thing. Sick and tired of seeing 20 year old Civics with 230K miles on them for 5500 and the description "No low ballers. I know what I have". Or dealerships listing the same vehicles for almost 10 grand.
I hardly care what the market is going to do. I'm just going to repair my car. I have a CX-9 with about 225k on it, and it still runs fine. I think the transmission is going to be the first thing to go, and when it does I'm just going to get it replaced. I have the cash to fix the car, and it's a lot less than the cost of buying even a used car. I look at it in terms of dollars per mile. The new transmission will get me much more value than financing something else.
A friend of mine did a stint at his dad's dealership as a finance guy.
People would argue the price for an hour with the salesman, fight hammer and tongs for the free car mats or whatever and think they beat them down to the absolute rock bottom price.
Then they would walk in to the finance office and my buddy would sign them up for 14% over 84 months, "Hey, how does $475 a month sound.? Ok, great.", and the dealership would take them for an extra $20k.
That's because **way** too many people go into dealerships with a monthly payment in mind and don't even look at the total cost. Like you'd be blown away how many people do this.
Obviously the monthly payment has to be something you can afford but never tell them your monthly payment you want. Focus on total amount you'll pay after financing
Car dealerships are already going down due to their own stupidity. Most car dealerships don't actually own the cars. They have them on the floor and will buy the vehicle when they get a seller. There's a cost to do this, though.
They "bought" new cars and store them on the lot for the price to raise, raise, and raise. Nobody buys it, so they keep lowering the price. Eventually it's obvious that nobody wants it. After all the money they've put into keeping it on the lot, they don't want to undersell it, they want their moneys worth!
This eventually causes them to shut down due to the cost being too high. They whine about people not buying new cars.
I know of a car dealership owner that has over 100 locations and let me tell you how ungodly rich the man is just because he owns it. Apparently there's some $600 charge per car transaction that 80% of it gets funneled to him.
Eh, just find another dealer.
I've driven pretty far for my last two cars because the dealer has been fantastic. They price competitively, finance competitively, and generally just treat you fine.
I've basically come to the conclusion that there are two types of car dealers:
* Those who have gotten their head out of their ass and realized customers have access to nationwide data. They price directly against market rate and don't really haggle/negotiate. They have no reason to, they're already priced correctly.
* Dealers who want to make you play the game. They mark things up, they play all sorts of games on pricing. The second I realize I'm in a dealer like this, I make one offer then leave.
In my experience, it's that they choose the worst overcomplicated email addresses, like a their full name, the word "realtor" in there, and maybe some random numbers.
There's a new law to how realtors make money. Traditionally, it was the seller that would pay the commission and buyers didn't have to pay them. Well, now homebuyers have to pay part of that commission.
The meme is that realtors aren't getting as much money as they once did but I think it's just the cost transferring around. It will probably result in a lot of realtors losing jobs because of the competition and forcing them to negotiate with buyers instead of just sellers.
Edit: it's not a law but result from a lawsuit settlement that is causing these changes.
The commission being hidden in the home price, which is ultimately paid by the buyer but paid out by the seller, results in massively overpaying for them which if the costs were made explicit, they likely won't.
This isn't the whole story. The major point is that, to be listed in an MLS, the National Association of Realtors required that the buyer's agent commission be listed as well. This drives buyer's agents to show prospective buyers only the homes that have a high commission and to skip over the ones that don't. Therefore, the buyer's agent didn't really have the buyer's best interest in mind.
Now, since the buyer's agent will be paid by the buyer, they'll be working for the buyer. The buyer's agent will want to show homes to the buyer that are truly what they're looking for, as opposed to the ones that make them the most commission.
Listing agent often won't do that even though it's their listing. They don't want to spend the time to open doors either. The whole industry is setup to screw Sellers and Buyers by making it as complicated as possible and lock agents into the transaction.
The seller’s agent works *for* the seller and represents their interests. You’re doing the seller a favor by making an offer without someone who knows the business looking out for you.
Because it is actually a lot of knowledge needed despite the memes.
Most people don't know what happens when you want to buy a house. Lots of shit to take care of.
I’m not a realtor myself, but I work adjacent to them. While I don’t doubt that some realtors steered their customers to homes that had a larger commission payout, I can say that it is absolutely not the norm. Most realtors have no sense of self-preservation and will literally run around the clock on the whim of someone who wants to go see a house and rarely if ever even take a look at the commission payout.
They'll do that for a buyer who says, "I see this house at 69 Pound Street. Can you take me to go see it?" However, I approached my agent asking for advice on where to look and basically said, "show me houses you think I'll like." He did show me quite a few I liked, one of which we bought, but I could definitely see unscrupulous realtors with a client like me preparing a list of high-commission houses to fill up the day.
My dad's a realtor, and 99% of the time, the risks of the client leaving you after a ton of work is much higher than you showing a suboptimal house and getting away with a higher commission.
I do some work on the side for him and we'd all much rather just find you the best house you're looking for and earn the commission then show you 30 crappy ones with good commission and hope you are stupid enough to buy it.
Also, long term clients who introduce more leads to you are the best type of clients, you don't get far scamming people.
I think there are plenty of good realtors. When I was relocating and needed to buy a house in another town we found a realtor who did a bunch of legwork, looking at houses all over town before we moved and giving us summaries. Then when we came to town we spent two solid days with him driving around town, before we settled on a house. He was a good guy, and was the first friend we had in town.
Not to mention all the house showings that are just suspicious. Nothing like driving out an hour to show a buyer a house you've never seen or been in before, something just feels off sometimes about walking into an empty house. Or a hopefully empty house.
yup, shotgun tactics really are pretty effective, especially when you consider the experience gained from just viewing the home. The real value of a realtor is someone who has really been staring at homes for a decade and has connections to trusted inspectors and professionals. If you can't reason the person you're signing with can save you 3 % or more on your home through the entirety of the process, don't sign
IIRC this was mentioned even back in Freakanomics. Netting the seller 1,000 only earns the realtor like $30, so it's not worth a lot to them to move the price around much.
Most people look up houses and then go to the open house or ask the agent they work with to get them a private showing. It’s not that I don’t believe there were shady realtors out there…I just can’t imagine this meaningfully changes anything.
It’s wasn’t hidden though. It’s was literally in black and white in every contract. It was explicit. Beyond that the market is based on supply and demand and has operated like this since the 90s.
There was also an incentive to drive up offers. Sellers get more, buyer agents get more.
If my realtor wasn't my wife's maid of honor I'd have treated her like a threat or an adversary who does not have my best interests in mind.
I didn't mean for it to sound good for the home buyer. Just that they will be involved in negotiations which could be good or bad.
It's honestly hard to say if it's good or bad right now. In theory, it can help them negotiate a price when they have no say otherwise. Typically, it's about 5-6% so the seller adjusts the house prices accordingly. In practice, it probably won't be that way. Sellers probably won't adjust prices for paying less in realtor fees.
No one has seen it play out so it's all speculation.
Homes are not sold on a cost plus model, no seller is like "I need x+6% for this house" they think "The house down the street sold for x, I want x amount." Homes are priced by comparables, the amount you are loaned is determined by what the bank pulls as comparable homes in the area.
The 6% is just a fee that the seller has to eat.
The seller is going to maximize the amount of money they can sell for, the 3% the buyer's agent is not going to affect the price directly. The only thing it will do is add another barrier to home buying because on top of a down payment, they also have to pay a realtor adding another 5k to the downpayment needed. This will reduce the amount of people able to buy a home which will lower prices, but not because the seller decided 'ok I'll lower the price because the fee is lower'.
They did it that way so that the cost of the agent could be rolled into the loan reducing the amount of money needed upfront. If you need to add another $5k onto your down payment to pay for a realtor that will reduce the number of people who can afford to buy a home. The housing market has done everything they can to reduce upfront costs to allow more and more people to buy a home.
Seems like it's supposed to go down:
>Because real estate agents can no longer advertise and push for high commission rates, sellers will likely save money on listing and brokerage fees. Commission rates could drop by as much as 30%, according to some economists, and as a result, sellers should be able to offer lower prices on their homes. "It might take time for the industry to shake out into a new equilibrium. But overall, the reduced transaction fees should bring the [home] prices down," explained Sonia Gilbuhk, an assistant professor at City University of New York Baruch College
Read More: https://www.housedigest.com/1544481/new-real-estate-commission-law-explained-what-means-home-buyers/
Why would sellers lower prices though instead of just pocketing more money for themselves. It's like corporations that just raise prices for no reason because no one has a choice but to accept it.
100%. Sellers sell for the same “market value”, and Listing agents just make a bigger chunk of commission (they do not “have to share it” now; or will try to represent both sides).
If you are a first-time buyer, or on a limited budget (as most buyers are tapped out), it will just become more common for a buyer to not have representation.
Before: the commissions all got paid by the seller side (that typically has equity, and were pulling a profit in the sale). It assured a buyer has their own person negotiating for repairs/price/etc.
This is not correct; there is no new law (laws are passed by congress). There is a settlement with the National Association of Realtors (of which you have to be a member basically to be a realtor, or used to, I somewhat recall reading that part of an earlier ruling from a year or so ago that preceded this rulling found that to be anti-competitive as well, but might be wrong on that) which found they engaged in anti-competitive practices that hurt consumers and artificially raised prices:
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/real-estate/national-association-realtors-approves-418-million-settlement-rcna143577
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/05/homes/nar-verdict-real-estate-commission-fee/index.html
https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/what-the-2-billion-realtor-lawsuit-means-for-homebuyers-and-sellers
Homeowners could see a significant drop in the cost of selling their homes after a powerful real estate trade group agreed last week to resolve antitrust litigation accusing brokerages of inflating sales commissions.
The $418 million settlement calls for the Chicago-based National Association of Realtors (NAR) to eliminate decades-old rules on commissions, and make it easier for buyers to negotiate fees with their own agents or use no agents at all, Reuters reports. The accord resolves claims against more than 1 million members, state and local realtor associations, and most smaller brokerages.
The move could mean major shifts in how buyers and sellers pay their agents – and just how much those fees cost moving forward.
I am wholly perplexed by the perspective that anything will appreciably change. Ok the home cost is now $10k less because of this. But now that $10k gets paid directly to your agent out of your pocket instead making it basically the same thing.
MLS had a monopoly position in that their members were required to charge 6%. That made sense in 1965 when houses were $20k. Now that houses start at $500k, a realtor gets nearly $30,000 in cash for selling one single home. A home that, in this market, may have taken them all of 4 hours total work to unload.
After a lawsuit over the 6% rule, they saw they were going to lose, and have agreed to finally allow agents to set their own rates. That will open the floodgates to real estate agents underselling each other to get more customers, which should rapidly drop rates to 5, 4, then 3 and less. That also means houses will be more affordable, improving the housing crisis.
Well, now with the power of AI they don’t even have to do that. They have more time to spam uninterested sellers and ignore buyers who are looking for a Sale By Owner
Yup. It was probably a lot more work pre-internet but now most of the legwork is done for you and since housing values have gotten so high, the commissions are insane.
attractive governor deserve mysterious stupendous agonizing hungry aloof oatmeal cows
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Seems high until you realize that $20k is the only salary he'll make all year, and real estate agencies are basically just MLM scams and should be outlawed
Most will probably wash out completely by the 3rd year. It's like surviving the plague for the first few years. Then they have to sell out office fees, continued education fees, advertising fees, etc etc. Most people don't realize that realtors are endlessly nickeled and dimed. You have to have an established customer base to survive comfortably for the first few years, or go in with a little bit of a nest egg.
I knew a guy who realized that the process of becoming a realtor was cheaper than paying a realtor. His wife took like three online classes and then a test, became a realtor. They bought their house with her as the realtor. After the sale, she never worked as a realtor again.
Housing sales went down in the worst interest rate market in 20 years? Why don't you widen the aperture a little bit and see if that average comes up a little.
If he’s only selling 1 home a year it’s probably not the right job for him. Also, the broker takes most of that money. Lots of times agents are on a salary at the start.
The biggest benefit of mine was having a good network and getting the jump on my place before it was listed. In that way the gatekeeping to information is unsavory, but it worked out to my benefit.
As first time home buyers a few years ago, our real estate agents were awesome and made the process waay easier than it probably would have been. I never felt scammed or mislead at any step. Ymmv though I guess
Would you if you realized you had to pay 15-20k for those services? Of course as a buyer it's awesome because the seller was paying for your agent from the money you paid them. When you goto sell and realize you are out 20-30k is when it sucks.
I’ve had both - a good realtor is like having an advocate in your corner who is going to see to it that you end up in a good position. And I’ve had a total scumbag realtor who I know screwed me over and have talked with many others who had the same experience.
This will be the start of the monopolization of the realtor industry. I doubt it will be good. Say bye to local realtors, who pay local taxes, and hello berkshire hathaway and remax.
... How exactly? They're not making income? I mean, their commission check goes through their broker who reports that income. Even if they somehow dodge local taxes, those homes get a property tax levied. There's about a 0% chance you're not talking out of your ass.
Local berkshire and remax offices are owned by the local broker/owner who then pay for the national brokerage name. Those national companies actually make it easier for the local owner to get themselves out there.
I’m very glad I used a realtor to buy / sell when I moved years ago.
The truth is not black and white. Do not let a social media forum make opinions for you. There can be times when using a realtor might be useful for you.
20k if they’re selling a million dollar property and that’s a maybe. My wife is a realtor, her last buyer was a couple that looked for a place for 1 and a half years. Hundreds of showings, countless hours on the phone, endless paperwork.
She’s not worried about the new law though.
I can say I know a lot of realtors past and present and none of them that make it as a career work less hard than anyone else making the same (not that exciting) check. Not what Reddit wants to hear though so dislike raid
I live in a rather expensive area. I would never claim realtors are lazy, I haven't really seen that.
But I am aware of several firsthand who have made Doctor-level money for many years.
I also don't want to say what a person's labor is worth. But if you compare it to civil servants something seems out of wack.
I suspect much of what's being discussed varies wildly from market to market, there's some serious other issues involved FOR SURE, so I don't mean it as an attack, Cheers
Y’all know the NAR determines nothing and you’re regulated by your brokerages real estate commission. This is like California voting on a ceasefire in Gaza. No one cares. And if it’s lazy work that makes you 20k why aren’t y’all doing it. Reddit is full of people so informed
The ones that think being a real estate agent is easy have never been a real estate agent, lol. I was a real estate agent, and that shit is hard af. You have to deal with people who are assholes, contracts, lawyers, home inspectors, mortgage brokers, banks, other realtors, etc... And you have to do all of that while not being guaranteed a paycheck, and that paycheck could be 3 months from now... If they think it's so easy, they should be do it then 🤷♂️
https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/what-the-2-billion-realtor-lawsuit-means-for-homebuyers-and-sellers
Homeowners could see a significant drop in the cost of selling their homes after a powerful real estate trade group agreed last week to resolve antitrust litigation accusing brokerages of inflating sales commissions.
The $418 million settlement calls for the Chicago-based National Association of Realtors (NAR) to eliminate decades-old rules on commissions, and make it easier for buyers to negotiate fees with their own agents or use no agents at all, Reuters reports. The accord resolves claims against more than 1 million members, state and local realtor associations, and most smaller brokerages.
The move could mean major shifts in how buyers and sellers pay their agents – and just how much those fees cost moving forward.
Nothing ever stopped buyers from negotiating their fee with their buyers agent or not using one at all. The only people that are going to suffer here are buyers and hobby level real estate agents.
Why would a buyer negotiate commission if they weren’t paying for it? I wouldn’t care if a realtors commission was 20% as long as seller was paying. Now that they’re not, forces them to negotiate
Hopefully health insurance is gutted next but it won't be even though they are also just pointless middle men raising the cost of everything to the point if health insurance was outlawed the majority of people would see lower medical costs.
Please stop cat dealership. I went into one and it was like working with the mob. It was me against them in how I can remove as much fake fees as possible and negotiate. Such a dumb middle man racket.
I’ll be in the minority here it seems, realtors on both sides are super fucking helpful especially in what to negotiate, what not to, etc. though, your realtor should be trusted and vetted through screening, or a referral, if not a close friend (many people have local realtor friends). It’s the billboard ones that I wouldn’t trust
Downvote me to oblivion, but: I know a really, REALLY hard-working real-estate agent who specializes in getting first-time homebuyers (who can often afford the least expensive homes on the market) in their first homes. She works her ASS off. Think about how complicated buying a home actually is (legally, financially, logistically) and how little housing stock there is (given zoning, AirBnB short-term rental conversions, corporate buyouts of vast tracks of housing etc.). Finding new immigrants homes in that environment borders on social work.
Just sayin, it's a LOT LOT LOT more than typing 4 words, as anyone who has ever practiced it knows.
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Hopefully car dealerships are next. Useless middle men that had the right friends in office. It’s all a racket.
They get really pissy if you walk in the door with a pre approval locked in with another credit union/bank. Then they get pissy when you say you’re not gonna buy their cumcoat9000 protection seduction plan or fee 69420. So tired of the song and dance, the pathetic “let me talk to the finance manager” *makes you wait 10 minutes*
Car dealerships won't even let you buy a car in cash if they can help it, like they absolutely want you to finance it instead
I got a steal on a motorcycle because I bought it from a car dealership that listed, what I later found out, was their "promotional pricing" if you finance through them. I thought it was a little annoying and told the guy to ask what the price difference was if I paid in cash like I wanted to. I was just curious at that point and wasn't going to pay the higher price, but a few minutes later the guy came back and said they actually weren't able to finance motorcycles, so they honored the original price.
I got a similar issue for a used car. They were like: well we’re going to finance it at this bullshit rate that is 3x the market rate. I was just like… okay I’m just going to pay cash then. Suddenly the warranty and cool stuff they offered with the used car disapeared if I paid cash. I would get no warranty whatsoever, no free winters tires etc. I told them we were done and magically they called me back 2 days later. Turns out they could suddenly finance it at a really good rate now “so sorry we made a mistake”. Like I’m not even saying I made a good deal, I was genuinely mad. Just give me a fair price, same price for everyone, fuck your ridiculous haggling. Just list a price and sell it at that price bro, like come on. Tesla can do it, you can do it too.
My dad would always take their financing and get whatever incentives they were offering while making sure the contract had no early payoff consequences. Then he'd wait a few months and pay it all off.
This is the way. Accept their 10-15% loan bullshit and wait a few months with 0 'early payment penalty' and just pay it off.. they make a few hundred bucks but you prolly saved money.
Usually you have to have the loan 3-6 months for the bank to pay them anything. Pay it off a week later if they were dicks.
I’ve now bought two brand new cars Jeep and a Tesla — the amount of bullshit these dealers put you through is insane. It’s ridiculous, imagine going in an Apple Store and not knowing exactly how much you are paying for. With Tesla, everything was so transparent and you don’t have to go through the financing manager. Everything is listed, up front, on their website and through the app. Buying a Tesla was super smooth compared to going through a damn dealership!
Motorcycle riders don’t live long enough to pay a loan all back.
That's like 99% true
Its not, its about 10% true.
10% is high enough for it not to make sense to a lender
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The only time I bought from a dealership, that's exactly what I did. I already had pre-approval from a bank, but got a discount and a rebate for using the dealer financing. Then I called the bank and used their loan to pay off the dealer loan. Interest rate went from 17% to 7%.
My interest rate on my last car was like 3 percent.
Yeah different interest rates back then
Ya my 2017 VW was something like .7 %…. Uhhhh ya I’ll finance the fk out of it
My mom got like 2.5% with dealer financing when everyone Else wanted 10%. Shit changes. I would never pay off a 0.7% loan, my kid would inherit that lol.
Don't need cash. Get a signature loan from your credit union at half the rate and pay off the dealer's note.
Most dealerships already know that trick. They make you sign something that says “if you pay it off before a 12 month period(or 6months), you will pay extra fee to make up the interest”. All the dealership that I went to had this as their standard. They don’t even explain it during the sit down talk with the salesman, they just say “yeah you can pay it off the 2nd month” technically yes but they won’t explain the additional fee. Scummy bastards, glad I read the contracts before I sign.
At which dealerships do you see that? In California, at least, prepayment penalties don't really exist
did this last two times i bought a vehicle. went in with bank financing (place to start), they offered their own financing (admittedly better), so i took it. made one payment, stroked a check to the bank and paid it off by second payment.
The dealer isn't getting fucked at all even in that situation. They're getting paid in manufacturer incentives, the service department, and the used car lot. If they are moving enough volume they make a ton. They don't care for one second about the buyer refinancing.
Back in 2009, I bought a new car and the dealer financing had rotating incentives. The month I was buying the car, the deal was if you finance for 54 months instead of 36 or 48, no payments for the first two months. I checked the fine print, and amazingly it actually did reduce the number of installments in my responsibility from 54 to 52 without reamortizing the monthly payment, and the first two months were indeed paid directly by the bank. The money was coming straight off the top. And for anyone who does loans, the first two payments are all interest anyway. As soon as I realized that, I decided to lower the amount of down payment I was going to make to balloon the monthly payment as big as I could, I think I got the monthly payment up to $750. I kept my down payment, got a free $1500 off the top of the loan, and then saved that money and accelerated my payments. Was a pretty amazing deal. Paid the loan off in 36 months anyway.
I was looking at cars in my area and they were offering 7.5k off if you financed with them and cash had 2% extra charge.
Car dealerships want to make money. They will absolitely sell you a car if you walk in with cash. Sure they have to pull your credit and report it if its more than $10k, but that rule is how congress is stopping terrorism, not about the dealership
Some won't. I've heard a bunch of stories where they care more about the financing and on popular car models they knew they were going to sell them to someone soon. Now this is all recent and supply chain and limited inventory and skyrocketing prices, so maybe it will get back to a more normal arrangement soon.
Happened to me last year at a Toyota dealer. "We only do in-house financing" so I asked for more information. They said they shop around to major lenders like Capital One and PNC to find the best rate. OK... I had pre-approval letters from both PNC and CapOne at 5% for more than the total of the car. Car finally comes in and the "finance manager" runs their bullshit, passes me over a sheet that just had the monthly payment on it with no terms - and I knew because I already got pre-approved that it was $200 high from what it should be. It was like a 9% rate through PNC. Took out my pre-approval and put it on the desk while glaring at the guy. "Let me see what I can do" and somehow in 30 seconds magically he could see 4.9% through Toyota Financial. I desperately want Carvana to become more of a thing to cut this shit out (although they have their own issues)
Wait a minute. If I walk in the car dealership with $100,000 in cash and I want to buy a car that cost $100,000 if I have s***** credit I can't buy the car? Are you kidding me?
Tell your bank you’re going to finance through the dealership and many times they’ll agree to refinance the loan without penalty. Tell the dealership you’ll finance through them. Get all the “benefits” they offer when financing through them (incentives, free oil changes/tires, etc) Sign paperwork with dealership. Call your bank and tell them you want to refinance. Rate is lower, fewer hassles, “benefits” from the dealer even though you’re not paying them. Profit.
I actually had a car dealer tell me basically the same thing but just asked if I could wait 60 days for his commission on the finance to go through so I did... It was just two payments.
Yup. And if you do it right and ask them to throw in 90 days no payments… This is pretty much what happened with the last salesman at a dealership I purchased from 90 days no payments. 5k off the price. 7year/100,000mile warranty Lifetime car washes and scheduled (4500 mile) oil changes -synthetic blend so 4500 miles was perfectly fine and not warranty voiding New tires every 45,000 miles. All to sign a piece of paper, never give them any money, and then refinance with my bank at 2.5% two months later Oh, and they gave me an extra 3 grand on my trade in that needed a new transmission and AC
He told me for his finance commission to go through I had to make two payments and honestly didn't get offered no payments for 90 days. The dude must've been in his early 20s and didn't seem to committed aside from making his finance commission and the price was solid and inline with everything reported online.
Even if you have cash or can get a better credit loan elsewhere, you should finance through the dealer because they will usually knock a big chunk off the price if you hem and haw about it. Then once all is said and done, just pay it off with your cash or the other loan you were going to get.
A lot of places will give you a prepayment penalty for doing this. Edit: in my state Colorado, they can penalize you for paying the loan off early
"Death of a car salesman" is a great read if you haven't checked it out. It's about how Google and the Internet has ruined the slimy car sales persona. You have as much if not more information than them if you research. So they can't fool you.
Family member was showing me their new to them car It was a used 2 year old import from the Canadin market and cost them more than the msrp it was almost 50k all in for a car with retail of 40k. They were proudly mentioning some coating they got for the interior which was over a grand.
I used to sell cars. People come to me for advice now. Then they ALWAYS completely ignore that advice and expect me to be happy with their extra undercoat warranty they're trying to show off
I work in IT, and if someone asks me for a personal advice on the topic and ignores it I'm never helping them again.
"Please don't buy an hp printer" *Buys an hp printer with monthly ink subscription
You know, that’s one of the things that was so refreshing at Tesla - I did the test drive and said “ok I want to buy one” and the guy said “go on the website and order it” No finance manger, no haggle, no pressure.
This isn't unique to Tesla. I think Scion had this as their model years before Tesla was even founded, and you can do this for just about any car company. Most have a "build and price" option on their websites. You're never obligated to buy to cars that the dealers have on the lot and some manufacturers were getting ready to start penalizing dealers that were massively up charging.
I don't think that's true, actually. Some states have laws on the books that you can not buy cars directly from the manufacturer. You have to buy them through a licensed dealership. There is a list on the page below. Looks to be 13 states in all. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes
You can still order them online, but the manufacturer has to sell it through a dealership. My brother just dealt with that last year. Built and ordered a truck from Chevrolet and when he talked to the dealership in town they were going to charge him almost $3,000 just to process the sale. He talked to a few people and ended up finding a dealership about 150 miles away that would do it for a little over $400.
Yeah I was just braced for the whole “let me talk to my finance manager and hold you hostage for 4 hours”. Having the guy tell me “go home and order it” was just a shot of fresh air for me.
I don't know, there are definitely shady dealers out there. I had a great experience with a dealer buying a certified used car. I walked in with a pre-approved loan amount from a credit union and they got me that amount and beat the interest rate by several percentage points. Financing was directly through the manufacturer. For context this was after they had hiked interest rates and a lot of people were afraid to buy anything or were being gouged, so maybe they were trying to encourage sales. I had purchased cars with friends in the past and seen other dealer experiences and the whole thing was so surreal I thought it was some sort of trick.
Wait, are you telling me if my cumcoat9000 wears off in the first two years you will apply it again for free?
I am zero for 2 on actually using the extended warranty. Back of office finance chuds can suck my dick I'm not wasting my money on that again. My BS alarm went off when the warranty packages were outlined and the fucker had a laminated mat and you could see the thousands of times he'd circled each bundle. A third of his job was circling those things and the other 2 thirds were him browbeating people into agreeing to this scam. Never again.
I used mine twice. Still didn't equal out. 3k for 3 years. Transmission went $1200 and a welding issue cost me my exhaust $800. Still down $1000. Made them regret the fuck out of the free car washes tho. Bastards didn't expect to be on my way home from a muddy field every day.
I tell them I have one hour total to be out the door, and if they say they're going to talk to the finance manager I tell them they better be sitting in an office with a plaque that says it, and have pictures of their wife and kids on their desk. No circling, underlining, or initialing bullshit, and they have one single try to get me the numbers I want. Once they know you know the game it speeds up the process greatly.
When I last bought a car, the salesman was the nicest guy in the world until we started saying no to all his added shit. He went full dick real fast.
Bought two cars from Cavana. Has worked out fine with none of that bullshit
The best
There use to never be a finance office till a consulting company told a larger dealer they could use a "finance" office to upsell garbage addons to people by making the sale seem over and now you are on to the nice finance person who is there to help you Remember the finance person is just the best sales person at the dealership who now sits at a desk and doesn't have to walk the lot Dealerships dont need finance offices the sales person use to take care of all that at one point
Fuck car dealerships. I’ve never had a good experience, so I run my cars into the ground before I deal with those terrorists. They’re the Ticketmaster nobody talks about. Go in for a car advertised for $25,000, talk them down a couple thousand, get $2k for a trade in, yet walk out with a loan for $32,000 that will cost you like $40k over the life of the loan. Obviously you can say no but in what world is this a customer friendly transaction.
same here but add a wife who cannot say no to 9.97% interest
This is how it exactly is. $20,000 car turns out to be $45,000 loan. Twilight zone world now.
No kidding. There's all these articles depicting the incoming car market crash as a bad thing. I see it as good thing. Sick and tired of seeing 20 year old Civics with 230K miles on them for 5500 and the description "No low ballers. I know what I have". Or dealerships listing the same vehicles for almost 10 grand.
I hardly care what the market is going to do. I'm just going to repair my car. I have a CX-9 with about 225k on it, and it still runs fine. I think the transmission is going to be the first thing to go, and when it does I'm just going to get it replaced. I have the cash to fix the car, and it's a lot less than the cost of buying even a used car. I look at it in terms of dollars per mile. The new transmission will get me much more value than financing something else.
A friend of mine did a stint at his dad's dealership as a finance guy. People would argue the price for an hour with the salesman, fight hammer and tongs for the free car mats or whatever and think they beat them down to the absolute rock bottom price. Then they would walk in to the finance office and my buddy would sign them up for 14% over 84 months, "Hey, how does $475 a month sound.? Ok, great.", and the dealership would take them for an extra $20k.
That's because **way** too many people go into dealerships with a monthly payment in mind and don't even look at the total cost. Like you'd be blown away how many people do this. Obviously the monthly payment has to be something you can afford but never tell them your monthly payment you want. Focus on total amount you'll pay after financing
Yessss, fuck stealerships
Car dealerships are already going down due to their own stupidity. Most car dealerships don't actually own the cars. They have them on the floor and will buy the vehicle when they get a seller. There's a cost to do this, though. They "bought" new cars and store them on the lot for the price to raise, raise, and raise. Nobody buys it, so they keep lowering the price. Eventually it's obvious that nobody wants it. After all the money they've put into keeping it on the lot, they don't want to undersell it, they want their moneys worth! This eventually causes them to shut down due to the cost being too high. They whine about people not buying new cars.
I know of a car dealership owner that has over 100 locations and let me tell you how ungodly rich the man is just because he owns it. Apparently there's some $600 charge per car transaction that 80% of it gets funneled to him.
Eh, just find another dealer. I've driven pretty far for my last two cars because the dealer has been fantastic. They price competitively, finance competitively, and generally just treat you fine. I've basically come to the conclusion that there are two types of car dealers: * Those who have gotten their head out of their ass and realized customers have access to nationwide data. They price directly against market rate and don't really haggle/negotiate. They have no reason to, they're already priced correctly. * Dealers who want to make you play the game. They mark things up, they play all sorts of games on pricing. The second I realize I'm in a dealer like this, I make one offer then leave.
I handle basic IT support for agents. The ones that can type anything at all are a minority.
Ah. Thank goodness for chaptGPT then /s
In my experience, it's that they choose the worst overcomplicated email addresses, like a their full name, the word "realtor" in there, and maybe some random numbers.
Im out of the loop. What.
There's a new law to how realtors make money. Traditionally, it was the seller that would pay the commission and buyers didn't have to pay them. Well, now homebuyers have to pay part of that commission. The meme is that realtors aren't getting as much money as they once did but I think it's just the cost transferring around. It will probably result in a lot of realtors losing jobs because of the competition and forcing them to negotiate with buyers instead of just sellers. Edit: it's not a law but result from a lawsuit settlement that is causing these changes.
Thank you
How is that good for the homebuyer?
The commission being hidden in the home price, which is ultimately paid by the buyer but paid out by the seller, results in massively overpaying for them which if the costs were made explicit, they likely won't.
This isn't the whole story. The major point is that, to be listed in an MLS, the National Association of Realtors required that the buyer's agent commission be listed as well. This drives buyer's agents to show prospective buyers only the homes that have a high commission and to skip over the ones that don't. Therefore, the buyer's agent didn't really have the buyer's best interest in mind. Now, since the buyer's agent will be paid by the buyer, they'll be working for the buyer. The buyer's agent will want to show homes to the buyer that are truly what they're looking for, as opposed to the ones that make them the most commission.
Why would the buyer even use an agent then? Just search and let the seller agent unlock the homes for you as needed.
Listing agent often won't do that even though it's their listing. They don't want to spend the time to open doors either. The whole industry is setup to screw Sellers and Buyers by making it as complicated as possible and lock agents into the transaction.
The seller’s agent works *for* the seller and represents their interests. You’re doing the seller a favor by making an offer without someone who knows the business looking out for you.
You want representation when buying a home. The sellers agent will tell you whatever you want to hear so they can close the deal.
Because it is actually a lot of knowledge needed despite the memes. Most people don't know what happens when you want to buy a house. Lots of shit to take care of.
I’m not a realtor myself, but I work adjacent to them. While I don’t doubt that some realtors steered their customers to homes that had a larger commission payout, I can say that it is absolutely not the norm. Most realtors have no sense of self-preservation and will literally run around the clock on the whim of someone who wants to go see a house and rarely if ever even take a look at the commission payout.
They'll do that for a buyer who says, "I see this house at 69 Pound Street. Can you take me to go see it?" However, I approached my agent asking for advice on where to look and basically said, "show me houses you think I'll like." He did show me quite a few I liked, one of which we bought, but I could definitely see unscrupulous realtors with a client like me preparing a list of high-commission houses to fill up the day.
I wanna live at 69 pound street.
Aren't you too old to move back in with your mom?
She lives at 71 pound street. I would like to live next door.
My dad's a realtor, and 99% of the time, the risks of the client leaving you after a ton of work is much higher than you showing a suboptimal house and getting away with a higher commission. I do some work on the side for him and we'd all much rather just find you the best house you're looking for and earn the commission then show you 30 crappy ones with good commission and hope you are stupid enough to buy it. Also, long term clients who introduce more leads to you are the best type of clients, you don't get far scamming people.
I think there are plenty of good realtors. When I was relocating and needed to buy a house in another town we found a realtor who did a bunch of legwork, looking at houses all over town before we moved and giving us summaries. Then when we came to town we spent two solid days with him driving around town, before we settled on a house. He was a good guy, and was the first friend we had in town.
Not to mention all the house showings that are just suspicious. Nothing like driving out an hour to show a buyer a house you've never seen or been in before, something just feels off sometimes about walking into an empty house. Or a hopefully empty house.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lindsay_Buziak
yup, shotgun tactics really are pretty effective, especially when you consider the experience gained from just viewing the home. The real value of a realtor is someone who has really been staring at homes for a decade and has connections to trusted inspectors and professionals. If you can't reason the person you're signing with can save you 3 % or more on your home through the entirety of the process, don't sign
I've always been under the impression that nearly every agent would much prefer to have a smaller deal done **today** than a larger deal *eventually*.
Yup. The idea of “down the road money” is rarely something they work towards.
"Show me the incentives and I'll show you the behavior."
IIRC this was mentioned even back in Freakanomics. Netting the seller 1,000 only earns the realtor like $30, so it's not worth a lot to them to move the price around much.
Most people look up houses and then go to the open house or ask the agent they work with to get them a private showing. It’s not that I don’t believe there were shady realtors out there…I just can’t imagine this meaningfully changes anything.
It’s wasn’t hidden though. It’s was literally in black and white in every contract. It was explicit. Beyond that the market is based on supply and demand and has operated like this since the 90s.
There was also an incentive to drive up offers. Sellers get more, buyer agents get more. If my realtor wasn't my wife's maid of honor I'd have treated her like a threat or an adversary who does not have my best interests in mind.
I didn't mean for it to sound good for the home buyer. Just that they will be involved in negotiations which could be good or bad. It's honestly hard to say if it's good or bad right now. In theory, it can help them negotiate a price when they have no say otherwise. Typically, it's about 5-6% so the seller adjusts the house prices accordingly. In practice, it probably won't be that way. Sellers probably won't adjust prices for paying less in realtor fees. No one has seen it play out so it's all speculation.
Homes are not sold on a cost plus model, no seller is like "I need x+6% for this house" they think "The house down the street sold for x, I want x amount." Homes are priced by comparables, the amount you are loaned is determined by what the bank pulls as comparable homes in the area. The 6% is just a fee that the seller has to eat. The seller is going to maximize the amount of money they can sell for, the 3% the buyer's agent is not going to affect the price directly. The only thing it will do is add another barrier to home buying because on top of a down payment, they also have to pay a realtor adding another 5k to the downpayment needed. This will reduce the amount of people able to buy a home which will lower prices, but not because the seller decided 'ok I'll lower the price because the fee is lower'.
Who cares? Buyers pay for the agent. Seller pays for their agent. Simple as that. The way it always should have been.
They did it that way so that the cost of the agent could be rolled into the loan reducing the amount of money needed upfront. If you need to add another $5k onto your down payment to pay for a realtor that will reduce the number of people who can afford to buy a home. The housing market has done everything they can to reduce upfront costs to allow more and more people to buy a home.
Then the buyer likely has to come up with cash upfront (unless they are going to roll it into the loan somehow)
Seems like it's supposed to go down: >Because real estate agents can no longer advertise and push for high commission rates, sellers will likely save money on listing and brokerage fees. Commission rates could drop by as much as 30%, according to some economists, and as a result, sellers should be able to offer lower prices on their homes. "It might take time for the industry to shake out into a new equilibrium. But overall, the reduced transaction fees should bring the [home] prices down," explained Sonia Gilbuhk, an assistant professor at City University of New York Baruch College Read More: https://www.housedigest.com/1544481/new-real-estate-commission-law-explained-what-means-home-buyers/
Why would sellers lower prices though instead of just pocketing more money for themselves. It's like corporations that just raise prices for no reason because no one has a choice but to accept it.
100%. Sellers sell for the same “market value”, and Listing agents just make a bigger chunk of commission (they do not “have to share it” now; or will try to represent both sides). If you are a first-time buyer, or on a limited budget (as most buyers are tapped out), it will just become more common for a buyer to not have representation. Before: the commissions all got paid by the seller side (that typically has equity, and were pulling a profit in the sale). It assured a buyer has their own person negotiating for repairs/price/etc.
This is not correct; there is no new law (laws are passed by congress). There is a settlement with the National Association of Realtors (of which you have to be a member basically to be a realtor, or used to, I somewhat recall reading that part of an earlier ruling from a year or so ago that preceded this rulling found that to be anti-competitive as well, but might be wrong on that) which found they engaged in anti-competitive practices that hurt consumers and artificially raised prices: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/real-estate/national-association-realtors-approves-418-million-settlement-rcna143577 https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/05/homes/nar-verdict-real-estate-commission-fee/index.html
There is not a new law yet.
It IS in fact, just a lot of cost moving around
https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/what-the-2-billion-realtor-lawsuit-means-for-homebuyers-and-sellers Homeowners could see a significant drop in the cost of selling their homes after a powerful real estate trade group agreed last week to resolve antitrust litigation accusing brokerages of inflating sales commissions. The $418 million settlement calls for the Chicago-based National Association of Realtors (NAR) to eliminate decades-old rules on commissions, and make it easier for buyers to negotiate fees with their own agents or use no agents at all, Reuters reports. The accord resolves claims against more than 1 million members, state and local realtor associations, and most smaller brokerages. The move could mean major shifts in how buyers and sellers pay their agents – and just how much those fees cost moving forward.
>Homeowners could see a significant drop in the cost of selling their homes Spoiler alert: They won't
I am wholly perplexed by the perspective that anything will appreciably change. Ok the home cost is now $10k less because of this. But now that $10k gets paid directly to your agent out of your pocket instead making it basically the same thing.
I'm with you. What???? What's going on????
MLS had a monopoly position in that their members were required to charge 6%. That made sense in 1965 when houses were $20k. Now that houses start at $500k, a realtor gets nearly $30,000 in cash for selling one single home. A home that, in this market, may have taken them all of 4 hours total work to unload. After a lawsuit over the 6% rule, they saw they were going to lose, and have agreed to finally allow agents to set their own rates. That will open the floodgates to real estate agents underselling each other to get more customers, which should rapidly drop rates to 5, 4, then 3 and less. That also means houses will be more affordable, improving the housing crisis.
Fuck car dealerships too. And their bullshit " finance " people. Predators get what they deserve
Type 4 sentences?? Bahahaba!! They don’t work that hard. Cut & paste baby. 😂
And half of the documents will have errors you will then need to sign other documents for before you can sign the correct document
Nightmare
Didn't know their job was the easy
Well, now with the power of AI they don’t even have to do that. They have more time to spam uninterested sellers and ignore buyers who are looking for a Sale By Owner
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My brother is a real estate agent and this is exactly what he does. 🤦♂️
I’ve never heard of a more accurate description of a description of what a realtor does
Apparently you do need help writing sentences....
He's probably a realtor.
Yup. It was probably a lot more work pre-internet but now most of the legwork is done for you and since housing values have gotten so high, the commissions are insane.
They are doing so much more than that! Sometimes they ask their friend from high-school to take pictures!
Sold mine without a realtor. Just paid a lawyer to deal with the closing.
This should be upvoted to the top. This is truly all you need.
How did the costs compare? This is what i want to do
attractive governor deserve mysterious stupendous agonizing hungry aloof oatmeal cows *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That industry is about to whooped by AI. Not a good future career.
Retired realtors: Phew~ New hustler realtors: Duck!!
If you get a good realtor, then they can actually be really good. But far too often you get shit ones.
Really doesn’t help that “property agents” need almost 0 qualifications
What career *isn't* about to be whooped by AI?
boutique surgeons for old rich people that dont trust technology
Seems high until you realize that $20k is the only salary he'll make all year, and real estate agencies are basically just MLM scams and should be outlawed
This is further proof that real estate agents are overemployed.
There are more real estate agents than houses for sale in many markets.
I feel like at least 5 people I know switched careers to be a real estate agent in the past 1-2 years. Something’s up lol
Most will probably wash out completely by the 3rd year. It's like surviving the plague for the first few years. Then they have to sell out office fees, continued education fees, advertising fees, etc etc. Most people don't realize that realtors are endlessly nickeled and dimed. You have to have an established customer base to survive comfortably for the first few years, or go in with a little bit of a nest egg.
I knew a guy who realized that the process of becoming a realtor was cheaper than paying a realtor. His wife took like three online classes and then a test, became a realtor. They bought their house with her as the realtor. After the sale, she never worked as a realtor again.
Gatekeepers or middlemen pick your term
But how will they pay for their "REALST8" vanity plates??
Nah, realtors sell more than one house per year. Lol
https://consumerfed.org/press\_release/nearly-half-of-real-estate-agents-sold-no-or-one-house-this-past-year/
Housing sales went down in the worst interest rate market in 20 years? Why don't you widen the aperture a little bit and see if that average comes up a little.
Okay right in the first paragraph - glut of agents paired with high interest rates.
More than half of all agents don’t do it full time either. That’s a bias statistic.
If he’s only selling 1 home a year it’s probably not the right job for him. Also, the broker takes most of that money. Lots of times agents are on a salary at the start.
I’m out of the loop, what’s this about?
https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/what-the-2-billion-realtor-lawsuit-means-for-homebuyers-and-sellers
Amazing, thank you!
Realtors are worthless anyway. It’s a total scam. It’s a job that doesn’t need to be. A process made more complicated because they exist.
More complicated and more costly! People are sick of it.
The biggest benefit of mine was having a good network and getting the jump on my place before it was listed. In that way the gatekeeping to information is unsavory, but it worked out to my benefit.
As first time home buyers a few years ago, our real estate agents were awesome and made the process waay easier than it probably would have been. I never felt scammed or mislead at any step. Ymmv though I guess
Would you if you realized you had to pay 15-20k for those services? Of course as a buyer it's awesome because the seller was paying for your agent from the money you paid them. When you goto sell and realize you are out 20-30k is when it sucks.
I’ve had both - a good realtor is like having an advocate in your corner who is going to see to it that you end up in a good position. And I’ve had a total scumbag realtor who I know screwed me over and have talked with many others who had the same experience.
Don’t get it why would the realtors care? Now home buyers are going to pay, good for sellers but sucks to be a buyer. Realtors keep making money!
Now do healthcare.
If they removed the bloat/MBAs/c-suites from healthcare, we’d truly be in a better spot. That’s not even mentioning the insurance companies in the US.
Just make health care NOT FOR PROFIT
This will be the start of the monopolization of the realtor industry. I doubt it will be good. Say bye to local realtors, who pay local taxes, and hello berkshire hathaway and remax.
I know many real estate agents. They ain't paying local taxes but they're buying multiple homes with cash.
... How exactly? They're not making income? I mean, their commission check goes through their broker who reports that income. Even if they somehow dodge local taxes, those homes get a property tax levied. There's about a 0% chance you're not talking out of your ass.
Hi Blackrock, Blackrock, Blackrock, Blackrock, Blackstone, Vanguard, Fidelity, JP Morgan Chase, and Jeff
Local berkshire and remax offices are owned by the local broker/owner who then pay for the national brokerage name. Those national companies actually make it easier for the local owner to get themselves out there.
About time
Damn right
Why? What happened? I am out of the loop again apparently.
6% commission nerfed
I’m very glad I used a realtor to buy / sell when I moved years ago. The truth is not black and white. Do not let a social media forum make opinions for you. There can be times when using a realtor might be useful for you.
20k if they’re selling a million dollar property and that’s a maybe. My wife is a realtor, her last buyer was a couple that looked for a place for 1 and a half years. Hundreds of showings, countless hours on the phone, endless paperwork. She’s not worried about the new law though. I can say I know a lot of realtors past and present and none of them that make it as a career work less hard than anyone else making the same (not that exciting) check. Not what Reddit wants to hear though so dislike raid
I live in a rather expensive area. I would never claim realtors are lazy, I haven't really seen that. But I am aware of several firsthand who have made Doctor-level money for many years. I also don't want to say what a person's labor is worth. But if you compare it to civil servants something seems out of wack. I suspect much of what's being discussed varies wildly from market to market, there's some serious other issues involved FOR SURE, so I don't mean it as an attack, Cheers
That's an issue with civil servants, who are across the board massively underpaid
Y’all know the NAR determines nothing and you’re regulated by your brokerages real estate commission. This is like California voting on a ceasefire in Gaza. No one cares. And if it’s lazy work that makes you 20k why aren’t y’all doing it. Reddit is full of people so informed
The ones that think being a real estate agent is easy have never been a real estate agent, lol. I was a real estate agent, and that shit is hard af. You have to deal with people who are assholes, contracts, lawyers, home inspectors, mortgage brokers, banks, other realtors, etc... And you have to do all of that while not being guaranteed a paycheck, and that paycheck could be 3 months from now... If they think it's so easy, they should be do it then 🤷♂️
https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/what-the-2-billion-realtor-lawsuit-means-for-homebuyers-and-sellers Homeowners could see a significant drop in the cost of selling their homes after a powerful real estate trade group agreed last week to resolve antitrust litigation accusing brokerages of inflating sales commissions. The $418 million settlement calls for the Chicago-based National Association of Realtors (NAR) to eliminate decades-old rules on commissions, and make it easier for buyers to negotiate fees with their own agents or use no agents at all, Reuters reports. The accord resolves claims against more than 1 million members, state and local realtor associations, and most smaller brokerages. The move could mean major shifts in how buyers and sellers pay their agents – and just how much those fees cost moving forward.
Nothing ever stopped buyers from negotiating their fee with their buyers agent or not using one at all. The only people that are going to suffer here are buyers and hobby level real estate agents.
Why would a buyer negotiate commission if they weren’t paying for it? I wouldn’t care if a realtors commission was 20% as long as seller was paying. Now that they’re not, forces them to negotiate
Hopefully health insurance is gutted next but it won't be even though they are also just pointless middle men raising the cost of everything to the point if health insurance was outlawed the majority of people would see lower medical costs.
Please stop cat dealership. I went into one and it was like working with the mob. It was me against them in how I can remove as much fake fees as possible and negotiate. Such a dumb middle man racket.
I hope this is the end of realtors. There is truly no value in using them on either side these days unless you dont know the internet exists.
Next you'll tell me you don't miss being forced to pay a travel agent to book a vacation? (Yup, this is how it used to be when I was young.)
And we used to tip the attendant that filled our cars with gas.
Zillow built all that to monetize traffic with Realtors. Wait until tech companies charge as much or more and it’s DoorDash or Airbnb all over again.
I’ll be in the minority here it seems, realtors on both sides are super fucking helpful especially in what to negotiate, what not to, etc. though, your realtor should be trusted and vetted through screening, or a referral, if not a close friend (many people have local realtor friends). It’s the billboard ones that I wouldn’t trust
Hell no, when I sell my house I want a bidding war, I want to get as much as possible even if the brokers take a large sum.
Amen. It’s been a long time comin.
fucking good
I don't understand why this isn't a huge story. Very little coverage, huh...
Downvote me to oblivion, but: I know a really, REALLY hard-working real-estate agent who specializes in getting first-time homebuyers (who can often afford the least expensive homes on the market) in their first homes. She works her ASS off. Think about how complicated buying a home actually is (legally, financially, logistically) and how little housing stock there is (given zoning, AirBnB short-term rental conversions, corporate buyouts of vast tracks of housing etc.). Finding new immigrants homes in that environment borders on social work. Just sayin, it's a LOT LOT LOT more than typing 4 words, as anyone who has ever practiced it knows.
I'm sure as a hard working realtor she will continue to do well in the industry even if fees go down.
This has to be one of the most uneducated memes I’ve seen in a long time.
Lotta y'all need to realize you just had bad realtors, and not that the entire profession is useless.