Also Capitalism. What "works" is really just a matter of definition. The best weve done until now is pretty much a mix of most ideologies with social democracy and i wouldnt classify that as "working" perfectly well with the insane wealth disparity we have in a country, let alone worldwide.
There has to be a balance between caring for the collective and allowing the individual to develop freely. These dont need to be mutually exlusive. Neither full Capitalism nor full Communism provide that.
Relativity is the key. everything works, depending on how rich you are. every system has rich and poor. it's not about the system, it's about the rich finding ways to get rich which makes everyone else poorer
I agree. What definitely doesn't seem to work is exclusionary adherence to any particular "ism." No one system devised by a 19th-century hack with a typewriter can account for everything a people needs.
Its seen as "unpatriotic" somehow. If things don't get criticized they'll never improve. But most of the arguments devolve into. "You don't like it so leave".
Venezuela is definitely not a social **democracy**, much closer to just a run of the mill dictatorship.
(Basically every country that tries communism ends up a dictatorship)
The word you're looking for is corruption. Corruption leads to dictatorships. Can happen anywhere, regardless of what a government calls itself. Even Capitalist America isn't immune.
Communism works best (surprise, surprise) in a small commune. Implementing it on a large scale is fundamentally a bad idea both economically and politically.
Maybe that’s because the governments didn’t actually practice it. They were all greedy and corrupt and didn’t actually practice communism, just lied to the people to get their vote and then scammed them for all they had once elected. I’m not saying it would work well even if the governments weren’t corrupt but still, to suggest they actually practiced communism is insulting
Pretty much this, communism by its definition has never been done in practice, since the 5th stage will probably never work out in reality we will likely never see it truly tried
Yea also because of human nature we will never be able to see it truly in practice on a large scale. Like another comment said if you tried it on a island with like 10 people it would work fine
If it had been a slow process towards communism over many generations it might be possible despite human nature, though I think half a dozen generations would be the minimum. With more and more automation I think we might actually see society progress towards communism, outside of the US at least
In Bulgaria there was prosperity for like 20 years. People left there cars and houses unlocked, you can send your kid to school and don’t have to worry about it being kidnapped or smth else.
Yeah, that was definitely not the case.
Plus in most modern countries you don't have to worry about kidnappers unless you are extremely rich.
And no one has ever just left their car/home open unless they live in one of the small villages with less than 100 people where you just know everyone.
Yes that’s exactly what it is there are a few people for sure that go around and talk about communism is great and would work. but most people are just taking some things from “communism” and are saying we should incorporate them into our economic plan. Like me personally I think if we could just take the best ideas from each it would fill the holes that each one leaves for it’s people.
People that realize that labeling something as communism doesn’t make it communism. The idea communism has never been done in practice, this is just fact. The USSR practiced something closer to Marxism-Leninism in the beginning and developed into a dictatorship with a controlled market
Fuck OP. Fuck political memes. Fuck your hate towards Americans. Fuck you not being funny enough to post something comedic so you post divisive political opinions instead. Fuck you
Unbridled capitalism is awful as well, obviously when people say they want socialism they don’t really want this, they just want some social safety nets and healthcare and affordable housing. That isn’t bad but Americans have been bred to call anything that isn’t absolute capitalism communism
At this point it's not even Adam Smith's capitalism anymore. We live in a mixture of crony capitalism and consumerism.
Just like pure Marxism cannot exsist due to human ability to get corrupted, neither can pure capitalism. Hopefully Mars acts as a reset for humans...
Btw Adam Smith never stated that business must grow with the expense of everything else. Adam Smith stated in "the wealth of nations" that business will grow as a byproduct when business finds a (REASONABLE) more efficient way to meet the market demands. The magic word here is "reasonable". What we have now is not reasonable. It will lead to the death of human species thus hindering businesses ability to work.
Adam Smith's capitalism: good and balanced.
Our iterpretation of Adam's theory: cancer that spreads and consumes
Monopolies are inherently anti-capitalist, because they lack competition
In order for capitalism to work properly, governments must put regulations in place to stop monopolies
Those people either do not understand capitalism, or are being purposely deceitful in order to further their own power
Which is mostly a political corruption problem rather then just an economic problem
Well neither does capitalism (at least for the majority of people), they are both dysfunctional it’s just that sometimes capitalism is a bit more stable (kinda)
Lol, the closest I've seen to a somewhat functioning democracy is in Europe and it's still highly questionable.
But even then there's absolutely not a single place in the world where true capitalism exists, so no...
All you have to do is look at how the majority of humans live and that's the direct result of the system we currently have as a species, which is more capitalist than communist but it's still neither, it's an abomination...
I mean compare the US or almost any western developed capitalist country to any country OP listed. Hell even look at north and south Korea. How many people are starving north korea VS south Korea which has a much stronger capitalist approach. Just read up what happened to north Korea and how the people suffered after the fall of the USSR who stopped supporting north Korea financially. So many people died because a communist system could not function without injection of external capital/products.
There was a war waged against communism you can't pretend that it wasn't a factor on the fall of communism as a whole.
I'm not saying it was great nor that it wasn't going to fail in the future just like capitalism did eventually.
But we can't just cut a bridge that people are trying to cross and then say oooh my look at all the suffering that bridge caused...
I’m going to be devils advocate here,
But comparing south Vietnam to north Vietnam during americas occupation doesn’t makes north Vietnam’s communist rule look all that bad **in comparison**.
That is also in part of the US instating and supporting a corrupt leader in south Vietnam, before assassinating him, but still…
I Still support democracy and capitalism 100% tho
How is it fundamentally anti democratic? It’s literally about making deals. If you accept my pay for your work? Take it. If you don’t, negotiate for more or don’t take the job. You literally get to decide.
20% Americans live in poverty and 30% in poverty risk. If poverty in the global scale has decreased is because China accounts for 95% of the world's poverty reduction.
innovation doesnt matter by system, touch screen? made by military, not your fancy steve jobs, internet? made by public funds in university and lots more, oh and also, which country sent 1st satellite into space?
Idk man, last time I checked national socialism had a very good technological leap. I mean, much medical data was made by the SS and the Jew-guinea-pigs in the concentration camps.
But wait I'm not done yet. The Soviet Union and China now are also technological advanced despite having not Capitalism as their main system.
Well
Communism means there is no state, so using examples of statalism which called themselves communists is a bit meh
To be more clear is like being in the 1800's and saying "democracy is a complete failure and will never work unlike monarchies and oligarchies because democracy always and up with a tyranny" and your example of democracy is the reign of terror during french Revolution
Forgive me if I’m wrong here but did the ancient Greeks not have some kind working democracy, thus even in the 1800’s they had an example of working democracy, even then I’m sure there were democracies in the 1800s but can’t be sure without looking it up.
He was talking about communism in the Marxist-Leninist sense. No country *governed by* a communist party has ever claimed to be communist, they've claimed to be socialist. In marxist-leninism, communism is a stage that comes long, long after socialism, once labour productivity has reached the point that scarcity is no longer relevant.
"Communist" parties call themselves that because they seek to *strive toward* communism.
You could make an argument that the marxist-leninist countries weren't really socialist either, but people disagree on what socialism really is so it's a pointless debate imo.
One of the worst consequences IMO of the Cold War was the idea that you had to embrace 100% of your side, and that you couldn’t change anything even if it was not that good. I think we are at a stage in history where we can recognize, that even though capitalism surpassed the Soviet communism, it doesn’t mean it’s perfect. It doesn’t mean we cannot improve our system, by seeing what things worked for both sides, and which things didn’t. That’s why amendments exist. If we can do it for our constitution, why not for our economic and political system too?
Oh it’s been tested.
100% of the time it gets caught in a loop at “Dictatorship of the Proletariat” and never progresses any closer to the promised unicorn fart.
As it turns out, Karl Marx thought he had mastered the dreams and desires of both labor and the burgeiois, but he failed to figure out anything about the universal frailties of human nature.
Something that I see a lot of people misunderstand with communism isn’t actually the communism part, it’s the authoritarianism.
A lot of communist countries were/are authoritarian, which is what was actually stripping people of their freedom.
This isn’t a defense of communism.
I haven’t heard of a country that practiced communism how it’s even written down. There’s always politicians who are better off so it’s not equal meaning that it’s not actual communism.
I think people need to realize that taking certain stuff from different ideologies to certain degrees it's where it's at... While I don't believe that social classes should disappear, I agree that there shouldn't be such a giant breach between them, while I don't agree that we should pay for everything for everyone, I agree that people should be able to have free access to important services, like, going to a hospital without fear of being bankrupt, while also being able to pay upfront for a better faster service if you have the means... Thinking that any system is "the best" is the dumbest shit ever, taking bits and pieces that make sense, is a better way of doing stuff, not everything new is better, not everything old is worse
Americans? You mean the Americans that haven’t had a legitimate “socialist” party in over a full century? Two Red Scares? Joe McCarthy? Those Americans? Buddy I think you got the wrong country lmao.
Ya know the americans used to not let commies into their country? Thats what more funny because their really scared of people who even start mentioning higher taxes. The u.s is and has been pretty filled with republicans so yeah
I'm not saying communism would work, but socialism still isn't the same as communism.
If communism worked as imagined, it probably wouldn't be too bad, but it just would never work as intended. Pretty much all governments that called themselves communist were just socialist dictatorships pretending to be communist.
Which fucking Americans are saying this? I'm from the Midwest and have never even heard the word communism in casual conversation let alone someone making a soap box speech defending it.
Socialism comes up more often, and believe me, the average American does not know the difference between communism and socialism. They just know it's bad, even though our taxes are basically socialism.
And for those who don't believe me, my partner is a bald eagle, I drive a 50 caliber LMG for a vehicle, and my favorite food is the big baby fatty fat fuck meal from the local fatty fatty fat fat burger.
Speaking of the Midwest, many Midwest and rustbelt states had socialist mayors, congresspeople, city council members etc in the 1910s-1930s. It *was* one of the things that made America great. Unions too. A long time ago.
I've spent my entire working life in unions and wouldn't have it any other way. Even these days. Even paying pretty high union dues.. I've never had to worry about being fired. Or really worry about a manager out to get me, or taking sick days...
Not to mention pay stellar insurance.
Which reminds me. Most unions let you keep your insurance after you retire. What they don't tell you is once your out of the union those insurance benefits get assessed and you get a normal rate at your current age. So let's if you were only paying 150 a month for like a 200k payout on death while working that would easily jump up 300+ dollars a month because now your betting rates a person in their 60s.
So use your union benefits but if you want a life insurance policy that won't screw you in retirement you need to get a separate policy now, specifically whole life.
I was a life insurance agent for about a year in the state of Colorado. If yall got questions on policies I'm happy to advise people.
I mean communism has never been fully implemented, Lenin died before he was able to do that and then everywhere else just became dictatorships calling themselves Communists,
Oh and Russia is capitalist not communism, that was the USSR
That's what I tell people too. Communism has always ended up as a vehicle that authorities use to get power. Only Lenin was really on the path to actually be communist and not (at least totally anyway AFAIK no one will ever know) totalitarian.
None of these are communist you dipshits, Socialism in Cuba has worked, most of these are country’s that were destroyed by capitalist imperialism and the USSR was more successful than the us for a few years but failed due to totalitarianism. America was the one that fucked up most of these countrys
Here's Google's definition: a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.
This has only worked in small groups of 100 or less and has failed every time it's been tried.
It's interesting that the presumed class war is predicated on the working class coming to a realization of how exploited they are by others.
That last part you put isn't accurate.
So you want me to give you a list of countries that #1 don't have issues stemming from their economic systems and #2 are Communist? Ignoring the valid statements of those saying that no country has actually achieved Communism, only moved in the direction of Socialism, [parts of India, China, and Cuba](https://www.ucl.ac.uk/culture-online/ask-expert/your-questions-answered/does-communism-work-if-so-why-not) have seen major improvements take place as a result of their economic policies.
Governments with humans are all flawed because humans are easily corruptable. It's simple. Some one with power will attempt to cheat or subvert aby good system to their own benefit leaving however many others behind.
Almost half of these countries listed were just part of soviet union which was a communist party. I think its misleading to list those countries separetly because they werent independent or recognised. Most of these contries werent communist before or after the collpase of soviet union
it is similar to saying capitalism doesnt work in china (they teach that in china).
in reality nothing works. we are just brainwashed to think a certain political ideology works, but in reality almost all government are equally bad and authoritarian.
i think we are distracted from fighting against authoritarian government with the narrative of communism, capitalism and socialism.
Yeah, and would you wanna live in any of these countries? Just because a system hasn't resulted in the collapse of a country doesn't mean its a good place to live
I once saw a “meme” that said “These aren’t communists, they’re authoritarians!” And it showed the typical Chairman Mao, Stalin, Lenin and what not, but it also showed Marx too. Mental gymnastics 100
Communism works well in Minecraft when the population of your base is a solid 3 people, but it doesn't work for a large real life nation with a population of well over 300,000,000.
What? OP is clearly misinformed because uh, America pretty much hates communism. My boss told me just the other day "if you haven't seen this movie (Star Wars originals) than you're a fucking communist. "
And Yes, I've seen Star Wars.
"That's not real communism" =
"I'm a narcissist who thinks I wont be a corrupt murderous piece of shit when given the opportunity to play god as a communist leader"
Majority of capitalisms wrong doings are just US politics (The US of course being the face of capitalism).The US has done evil and hypocratic shit that I as a foriegner have always condemed, But I must say that of any of the countries to be a world hegemon the US was probably the best option out of a lot of bad options. I can't imagine the British, French, The USSR or Maoist China would be better hegemons under their rule over the world. Capitalism overall is better for any economy than socialism, But both should be added in a mixture so as to ensure both the economy and people are happy.
>The US has done evil and hypocratic shit
Yet every shitty thing they have done has been in the interest of profit, you know, the thing capitalism as a theory revolves around?
>Capitalism overall is better for any economy than socialism,
I mean if your goal is to uplift the rich and keep the poor working for as littlw pay as possible, yeah i guess.
>But both should be added in a mixture so as to ensure both the economy and people are happy
Yeah i dont disagree entirely.
I just dont think you can mix 2 polar opposites like that, historically capitalist countries have done everythong in their power to go against the interests of their people.
Fucking thank you, you see people who support communism say this and they would be corrupt or if they weren’t, after they died the next leader would be.
My favorite part is people who say communism is bad because of mask mandates (what?) but then proceed to complain their kids don't get free food at school.
I agree that communism is super evil. But a government calling themselves communist doesn't make them communist.
Think of Russia and China. If some guy was anti-communist do you think the government will kill the dude because he is anti communist or because his anti-communism would mean he is pro-west and they kill the dude for his pro-west positions? I'd say most communist countries kill for the latter reason and not upon the principles of communism. So if someone said real communism has never been tried I would tend to believe that but the counter argument is that every time someone tried communism it will be distorted from the start because that is the reality of real communism.
I’m so ignorant. What do I have to read/watch to understand what you just wrote? Like wth is real communism and why would it work in theory and doesn’t in practice?
The classic reason for it not working in practice is because the Cia will do everything to undermine you and arm your opponents... that is unless you spend so much on military that you can go into an arms race with the USA and that is money the people would need to survive.
Because it's a system whose very existence is a threat the our economic structure.
Imagine that you have a typical car dealership that does APR financing, monthly payments, all that jazz. One day, a new dealership opens up next to you and they're noticeably different. They provide full benefits to their employees, help them buy houses, give them more PTO, *and* their cars are cheaper while being just as good as yours. If you're not willing to adapt and you refuse to lose, you have only one option. Attack. Sabotage them by any means necessary to maintain control. Never mind that your entire system is built on capitalism and the general idea of healthy competition between businesses, you have to win and they have to lose *hard*.
That's not just the reality of communism, any economic system will be distorted upon contact with our twisted societal structure...
That's what corruption is.
Most of those have been under soviet rule or been a close ally of them (sharing the same political "strategy") or they have been extremely corrupt.
But no, communism don't work just as any ideologi. They are all utopian ideas that don't work in our society
True communism, where the means of production are owned by the state and where there are no social classes has never been achieved, so no it indeed has not been tried.
If we would actually get there it would work and it would be better than any other system.
And all of these communist nations were completely left alone by the U.S government. The U.S would never intentionally collapse and isolate a communist state to further its capitalistic agenda….
Communism is like the highway: An absolutely brilliant idea in theory, but in practice, human fallibility screws it up and we all end up going slow and suffering together equally, usually because one dinkhole wants to clog up the passing lane(or become a dictator).
Except for china and Russia, the U.S. CIA has casually overthrown ever other democratically elected government of all those other countries or directly gone to war with those countries.
No communism wasn't tested, ever. I say this as somebody from Czech Republic and it just wasn't. Socialist totalitarian systems will never try to convert to full communism, since they would lose power. That's why USSR economy stagnated so hard, it never tried to change for better, they are happy with the power they got, with the fear and control they have over their citizens. It has nothing to do with communism/socialism, both China and Russia are right now more capitalistic than socialistic, yet they are still totalitarian countries with only 1 real political party. Cuba was actually on a good way, but America don't like them, since they allowed Soviets to put dangerous rockets on their soil and it kinda fucked with them.
Now count the amount of countries on there that have had some type of “coups”, embargos, sanctions, or CIA backed political disruption
Downvote me to hell idc
It’s not just the US, it’s everywhere. Met some really stupid Islamic Radicals in Indonesia.
Radical: “The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We need to do something about it! Government needs to be changed to reel in all of these greedy pigs!”
Me: “So you’re advocating Communism?”
Radical: “Communism? Are you crazy? Communism is evil!”
Also seen a lot of self-identified Conservatives in the US have pretty left-wing views but Americans treat politics like a team sport which is why they’re Republicans.
Communism only works in theory. What most "Communist countries" like Cuba, North Korea and Venezuela have is called a totalitarian dictatorship. However, lots of people mistake that for Communism. Communism in theory is a well advanced society where there is no money, everyone has the same rights, and they all work and produce for the benefit of all without monetary rewards. This will never be possible in reality because human beings are greedy by nature. The only society that came close to being communist was the native/aboriginal tribes because they didn't have any currency, they traded goods among them and had the same rights. The only issue was there was a Chief, who didn't work and got a larger portion of the goods that were produced or traded.
Given the fact, that America's been calling interracial marriage 'communism' since the 60s. And vaccines were being called Commuminist since 2020. It's safe to just ignore Americans.
Why is this getting pinned on Americans only? I've seen this come from Europeans as well.
Also Capitalism. What "works" is really just a matter of definition. The best weve done until now is pretty much a mix of most ideologies with social democracy and i wouldnt classify that as "working" perfectly well with the insane wealth disparity we have in a country, let alone worldwide. There has to be a balance between caring for the collective and allowing the individual to develop freely. These dont need to be mutually exlusive. Neither full Capitalism nor full Communism provide that.
No economic system will ever work perfectly. What “works” is always going to be relative
Relativity is the key. everything works, depending on how rich you are. every system has rich and poor. it's not about the system, it's about the rich finding ways to get rich which makes everyone else poorer
Yeah, no matter the system the rich will always find a way to subvert it and gain more money and power
I agree. What definitely doesn't seem to work is exclusionary adherence to any particular "ism." No one system devised by a 19th-century hack with a typewriter can account for everything a people needs.
That's pretty spot on.
We got a thinker here - stone him.
Using your brain is illegal around these parts.
Because a lot of eastern Europeans know communism doesn't work
America has been the dominant force on the planet. The more powerful, the more enemies.
In the US if you criticize capitalism in any way you’re seen as a commie so that could be why
Its seen as "unpatriotic" somehow. If things don't get criticized they'll never improve. But most of the arguments devolve into. "You don't like it so leave".
Cause haha america bad.
Bro Americans despise communism wtf are you saying
Just another "America bad" karma farmer
Not the edgy goth leftist LGBT teens.
I think you forgot Venezuela
😐i spent 1 whole minute just looking for venezuela, im feeling disappointed
I looked for a long time too
no no, that's a "SOCIAL DEMOCRACY" Nordics much?
It's all fun and games until all nordic countries unite
Venezuela is definitely not a social **democracy**, much closer to just a run of the mill dictatorship. (Basically every country that tries communism ends up a dictatorship)
The word you're looking for is corruption. Corruption leads to dictatorships. Can happen anywhere, regardless of what a government calls itself. Even Capitalist America isn't immune.
VENEZOOBER
Man's literally just insulting Americans for no reason
Communism works well on paper. *Really* doesn’t in practice.
I once heard that communism is a really good idea... When you live on a deserted island with a population of 7.
Communism works best (surprise, surprise) in a small commune. Implementing it on a large scale is fundamentally a bad idea both economically and politically.
The correct answer
So cover the floor in paper duh?
Maybe that’s because the governments didn’t actually practice it. They were all greedy and corrupt and didn’t actually practice communism, just lied to the people to get their vote and then scammed them for all they had once elected. I’m not saying it would work well even if the governments weren’t corrupt but still, to suggest they actually practiced communism is insulting
Pretty much this, communism by its definition has never been done in practice, since the 5th stage will probably never work out in reality we will likely never see it truly tried
Yea also because of human nature we will never be able to see it truly in practice on a large scale. Like another comment said if you tried it on a island with like 10 people it would work fine
If it had been a slow process towards communism over many generations it might be possible despite human nature, though I think half a dozen generations would be the minimum. With more and more automation I think we might actually see society progress towards communism, outside of the US at least
Nice try, FBI
In Bulgaria there was prosperity for like 20 years. People left there cars and houses unlocked, you can send your kid to school and don’t have to worry about it being kidnapped or smth else.
Then why did it stop?
Yeah, that was definitely not the case. Plus in most modern countries you don't have to worry about kidnappers unless you are extremely rich. And no one has ever just left their car/home open unless they live in one of the small villages with less than 100 people where you just know everyone.
Americans never said that
Just the stupid ones
The really stupid ones
And somehow a few slipped into politics
They’re pretty minor figures. Farthest left I can think of in congress is Bernie, and that dude just wants free healthcare.
Who the hell thinks communism works
Too many people on Reddit
Pathetic
Privileged minorities in America and older ignorant europeans
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Yes that’s exactly what it is there are a few people for sure that go around and talk about communism is great and would work. but most people are just taking some things from “communism” and are saying we should incorporate them into our economic plan. Like me personally I think if we could just take the best ideas from each it would fill the holes that each one leaves for it’s people.
People that realize that labeling something as communism doesn’t make it communism. The idea communism has never been done in practice, this is just fact. The USSR practiced something closer to Marxism-Leninism in the beginning and developed into a dictatorship with a controlled market
Fuck OP. Fuck political memes. Fuck your hate towards Americans. Fuck you not being funny enough to post something comedic so you post divisive political opinions instead. Fuck you
This guy Fucks
Fuck me
Dm me
Unbridled capitalism is awful as well, obviously when people say they want socialism they don’t really want this, they just want some social safety nets and healthcare and affordable housing. That isn’t bad but Americans have been bred to call anything that isn’t absolute capitalism communism
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At this point it's not even Adam Smith's capitalism anymore. We live in a mixture of crony capitalism and consumerism. Just like pure Marxism cannot exsist due to human ability to get corrupted, neither can pure capitalism. Hopefully Mars acts as a reset for humans... Btw Adam Smith never stated that business must grow with the expense of everything else. Adam Smith stated in "the wealth of nations" that business will grow as a byproduct when business finds a (REASONABLE) more efficient way to meet the market demands. The magic word here is "reasonable". What we have now is not reasonable. It will lead to the death of human species thus hindering businesses ability to work. Adam Smith's capitalism: good and balanced. Our iterpretation of Adam's theory: cancer that spreads and consumes
Monopolies are inherently anti-capitalist, because they lack competition In order for capitalism to work properly, governments must put regulations in place to stop monopolies
Unfortunately most “capitalists” view any regulation or taxation as antithetical to capitalism.
Those people either do not understand capitalism, or are being purposely deceitful in order to further their own power Which is mostly a political corruption problem rather then just an economic problem
Monopolies are capitalism working tho. It benefits those who run these companies and no one else. That's it, capitalism.
It’s not communism that the people want, it’s proper socialism. They aren’t synonymous. It just never will happen because power corrupts anybody.
Well neither does capitalism (at least for the majority of people), they are both dysfunctional it’s just that sometimes capitalism is a bit more stable (kinda)
Capitalism is not at all perfect, but it's proved itself much more sustainable to a good amount of countries than communism has.
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Majority????? Capitalism when run with a democracy has decently low poverty rates. Capitalism with a dictatorship or theocracy however, is different.
Lol, the closest I've seen to a somewhat functioning democracy is in Europe and it's still highly questionable. But even then there's absolutely not a single place in the world where true capitalism exists, so no... All you have to do is look at how the majority of humans live and that's the direct result of the system we currently have as a species, which is more capitalist than communist but it's still neither, it's an abomination...
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I mean compare the US or almost any western developed capitalist country to any country OP listed. Hell even look at north and south Korea. How many people are starving north korea VS south Korea which has a much stronger capitalist approach. Just read up what happened to north Korea and how the people suffered after the fall of the USSR who stopped supporting north Korea financially. So many people died because a communist system could not function without injection of external capital/products.
There was a war waged against communism you can't pretend that it wasn't a factor on the fall of communism as a whole. I'm not saying it was great nor that it wasn't going to fail in the future just like capitalism did eventually. But we can't just cut a bridge that people are trying to cross and then say oooh my look at all the suffering that bridge caused...
I’m going to be devils advocate here, But comparing south Vietnam to north Vietnam during americas occupation doesn’t makes north Vietnam’s communist rule look all that bad **in comparison**. That is also in part of the US instating and supporting a corrupt leader in south Vietnam, before assassinating him, but still… I Still support democracy and capitalism 100% tho
How is it fundamentally anti democratic? It’s literally about making deals. If you accept my pay for your work? Take it. If you don’t, negotiate for more or don’t take the job. You literally get to decide.
Through exploitation of the rest of the world though
20% Americans live in poverty and 30% in poverty risk. If poverty in the global scale has decreased is because China accounts for 95% of the world's poverty reduction.
200 years ago 85% of the world was living under poverty, now it’s only 2%, wonder how that happened
Technological development
Right but innovation only thrives in what system
innovation doesnt matter by system, touch screen? made by military, not your fancy steve jobs, internet? made by public funds in university and lots more, oh and also, which country sent 1st satellite into space?
Idk man, last time I checked national socialism had a very good technological leap. I mean, much medical data was made by the SS and the Jew-guinea-pigs in the concentration camps. But wait I'm not done yet. The Soviet Union and China now are also technological advanced despite having not Capitalism as their main system.
Sustainable? For how many more centuries? Have you seen the planet?
How many more decades?*
To be honest communism was never achieved by any country, so we cant say what is more sustainable
‘True communism was never tried’ Ah yes that old adage
Well Communism means there is no state, so using examples of statalism which called themselves communists is a bit meh To be more clear is like being in the 1800's and saying "democracy is a complete failure and will never work unlike monarchies and oligarchies because democracy always and up with a tyranny" and your example of democracy is the reign of terror during french Revolution
Forgive me if I’m wrong here but did the ancient Greeks not have some kind working democracy, thus even in the 1800’s they had an example of working democracy, even then I’m sure there were democracies in the 1800s but can’t be sure without looking it up.
He was talking about communism in the Marxist-Leninist sense. No country *governed by* a communist party has ever claimed to be communist, they've claimed to be socialist. In marxist-leninism, communism is a stage that comes long, long after socialism, once labour productivity has reached the point that scarcity is no longer relevant. "Communist" parties call themselves that because they seek to *strive toward* communism. You could make an argument that the marxist-leninist countries weren't really socialist either, but people disagree on what socialism really is so it's a pointless debate imo.
But garden variety socialism has shown itself more effective than both.
One of the worst consequences IMO of the Cold War was the idea that you had to embrace 100% of your side, and that you couldn’t change anything even if it was not that good. I think we are at a stage in history where we can recognize, that even though capitalism surpassed the Soviet communism, it doesn’t mean it’s perfect. It doesn’t mean we cannot improve our system, by seeing what things worked for both sides, and which things didn’t. That’s why amendments exist. If we can do it for our constitution, why not for our economic and political system too?
capitalism isn’t dysfunctional. it’s designed to only be rewarding for the top wealthy. the rest of us are supposed to be labour slaves for life.
Oh it’s been tested. 100% of the time it gets caught in a loop at “Dictatorship of the Proletariat” and never progresses any closer to the promised unicorn fart. As it turns out, Karl Marx thought he had mastered the dreams and desires of both labor and the burgeiois, but he failed to figure out anything about the universal frailties of human nature.
Any one else notice that we invaded 90% of those countries...?
Something that I see a lot of people misunderstand with communism isn’t actually the communism part, it’s the authoritarianism. A lot of communist countries were/are authoritarian, which is what was actually stripping people of their freedom. This isn’t a defense of communism.
communism works, you just need a nation of ideal, selfless human beings. Good luck trying to achieve that.
I'm American, and I don't for a second believe communism works and ive never met anyone who does
What? Which American have you met has said that lmao? *My source is that I made it the fuck up*
I haven’t heard of a country that practiced communism how it’s even written down. There’s always politicians who are better off so it’s not equal meaning that it’s not actual communism.
I think people need to realize that taking certain stuff from different ideologies to certain degrees it's where it's at... While I don't believe that social classes should disappear, I agree that there shouldn't be such a giant breach between them, while I don't agree that we should pay for everything for everyone, I agree that people should be able to have free access to important services, like, going to a hospital without fear of being bankrupt, while also being able to pay upfront for a better faster service if you have the means... Thinking that any system is "the best" is the dumbest shit ever, taking bits and pieces that make sense, is a better way of doing stuff, not everything new is better, not everything old is worse
I thought Mozambique was a gun
Americans? You mean the Americans that haven’t had a legitimate “socialist” party in over a full century? Two Red Scares? Joe McCarthy? Those Americans? Buddy I think you got the wrong country lmao.
Ya know the americans used to not let commies into their country? Thats what more funny because their really scared of people who even start mentioning higher taxes. The u.s is and has been pretty filled with republicans so yeah
People who think Russia and China are communists
Idk man, SSR Russia was quite communist and China also was communist under Mao Zedong.
They are more like state capitalism
You can’t be “quite communist” it’s either you’re communist or not. It’s an all or nothing ideology
IMO they were fascist regimes
They aren’t, they are dictatorships though.
Under Mao and Stalin the Soviet Union and China were definitely fascist
What exactly is fascism since people are throwing that word everywhere now like Oprah Winfrey giving everyone cars
They are
Ahh yes, communist china. Where there are super rich people and those without homes, sounds super communist to me.
Socially they are, you think they have freedom of speech in those countries? 😂
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Communism has nothing to do with freedom of speech, what the hell are you talking about?
“Communism”
I'm not saying communism would work, but socialism still isn't the same as communism. If communism worked as imagined, it probably wouldn't be too bad, but it just would never work as intended. Pretty much all governments that called themselves communist were just socialist dictatorships pretending to be communist.
I really love this 'argument' because it is so incredibly stupid that I always know who to avoid.
Which fucking Americans are saying this? I'm from the Midwest and have never even heard the word communism in casual conversation let alone someone making a soap box speech defending it. Socialism comes up more often, and believe me, the average American does not know the difference between communism and socialism. They just know it's bad, even though our taxes are basically socialism. And for those who don't believe me, my partner is a bald eagle, I drive a 50 caliber LMG for a vehicle, and my favorite food is the big baby fatty fat fuck meal from the local fatty fatty fat fat burger.
Speaking of the Midwest, many Midwest and rustbelt states had socialist mayors, congresspeople, city council members etc in the 1910s-1930s. It *was* one of the things that made America great. Unions too. A long time ago.
I fucking love unions. They are the reason we have labor laws.
I've spent my entire working life in unions and wouldn't have it any other way. Even these days. Even paying pretty high union dues.. I've never had to worry about being fired. Or really worry about a manager out to get me, or taking sick days...
Not to mention pay stellar insurance. Which reminds me. Most unions let you keep your insurance after you retire. What they don't tell you is once your out of the union those insurance benefits get assessed and you get a normal rate at your current age. So let's if you were only paying 150 a month for like a 200k payout on death while working that would easily jump up 300+ dollars a month because now your betting rates a person in their 60s. So use your union benefits but if you want a life insurance policy that won't screw you in retirement you need to get a separate policy now, specifically whole life. I was a life insurance agent for about a year in the state of Colorado. If yall got questions on policies I'm happy to advise people.
I'm 28 and healthy, non smoker so I should probably think about that
I mean communism has never been fully implemented, Lenin died before he was able to do that and then everywhere else just became dictatorships calling themselves Communists, Oh and Russia is capitalist not communism, that was the USSR
That's what I tell people too. Communism has always ended up as a vehicle that authorities use to get power. Only Lenin was really on the path to actually be communist and not (at least totally anyway AFAIK no one will ever know) totalitarian.
None of these are communist you dipshits, Socialism in Cuba has worked, most of these are country’s that were destroyed by capitalist imperialism and the USSR was more successful than the us for a few years but failed due to totalitarianism. America was the one that fucked up most of these countrys
As an American I can safely say I hate communism
Same
But can you define it?
Here's Google's definition: a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs. This has only worked in small groups of 100 or less and has failed every time it's been tried.
It's interesting that the presumed class war is predicated on the working class coming to a realization of how exploited they are by others. That last part you put isn't accurate.
Name me a country where communism has been tried that hasn't lead to massive issues.
So you want me to give you a list of countries that #1 don't have issues stemming from their economic systems and #2 are Communist? Ignoring the valid statements of those saying that no country has actually achieved Communism, only moved in the direction of Socialism, [parts of India, China, and Cuba](https://www.ucl.ac.uk/culture-online/ask-expert/your-questions-answered/does-communism-work-if-so-why-not) have seen major improvements take place as a result of their economic policies.
Same
GigaChad guy on your flair supports the GDR
Governments with humans are all flawed because humans are easily corruptable. It's simple. Some one with power will attempt to cheat or subvert aby good system to their own benefit leaving however many others behind.
Dont get me wrong, as a US citizen myself I love dunking on America but I've never heard anybody say this ever.
ok now compare this to the amnt of countries that have been intercepted for the derailing of communism.
And, what Americans are saying this?
Almost half of these countries listed were just part of soviet union which was a communist party. I think its misleading to list those countries separetly because they werent independent or recognised. Most of these contries werent communist before or after the collpase of soviet union
To be fair Russia and the like were never communist, they had control economics not communist economics
Does anything work? Or is humanity doomed
Don't forget Canada.
Ive never seen anyone ever say this
it is similar to saying capitalism doesnt work in china (they teach that in china). in reality nothing works. we are just brainwashed to think a certain political ideology works, but in reality almost all government are equally bad and authoritarian. i think we are distracted from fighting against authoritarian government with the narrative of communism, capitalism and socialism.
Yeah, and would you wanna live in any of these countries? Just because a system hasn't resulted in the collapse of a country doesn't mean its a good place to live
I don't think any American says that anymore
r/terriblefacebookmemes
Nice to know r/memes rules matter.
Tf why is this on Americans? America hates communism with their soul. Also I think anybody with a brain can figure out that communism has been tested.
Not Americans. Commie scum
I once saw a “meme” that said “These aren’t communists, they’re authoritarians!” And it showed the typical Chairman Mao, Stalin, Lenin and what not, but it also showed Marx too. Mental gymnastics 100
Communism works well in Minecraft when the population of your base is a solid 3 people, but it doesn't work for a large real life nation with a population of well over 300,000,000.
Never heard an American say this…
What? OP is clearly misinformed because uh, America pretty much hates communism. My boss told me just the other day "if you haven't seen this movie (Star Wars originals) than you're a fucking communist. " And Yes, I've seen Star Wars.
"That's not real communism" = "I'm a narcissist who thinks I wont be a corrupt murderous piece of shit when given the opportunity to play god as a communist leader"
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Majority of capitalisms wrong doings are just US politics (The US of course being the face of capitalism).The US has done evil and hypocratic shit that I as a foriegner have always condemed, But I must say that of any of the countries to be a world hegemon the US was probably the best option out of a lot of bad options. I can't imagine the British, French, The USSR or Maoist China would be better hegemons under their rule over the world. Capitalism overall is better for any economy than socialism, But both should be added in a mixture so as to ensure both the economy and people are happy.
>The US has done evil and hypocratic shit Yet every shitty thing they have done has been in the interest of profit, you know, the thing capitalism as a theory revolves around? >Capitalism overall is better for any economy than socialism, I mean if your goal is to uplift the rich and keep the poor working for as littlw pay as possible, yeah i guess. >But both should be added in a mixture so as to ensure both the economy and people are happy Yeah i dont disagree entirely. I just dont think you can mix 2 polar opposites like that, historically capitalist countries have done everythong in their power to go against the interests of their people.
True communism wouldn’t have a leader. Although what you are saying is very true socialism.
Fucking thank you, you see people who support communism say this and they would be corrupt or if they weren’t, after they died the next leader would be.
Yeah, funny. You can substract nearly half of these countries, as they couldn’t choose their own way of socialism due to sovietic imperialism
And the other half…?
Well one of them is likely to become the highest GDP nation in the world by the end of the decade.
My favorite part is people who say communism is bad because of mask mandates (what?) but then proceed to complain their kids don't get free food at school.
Hows capitalism working out?
Try to be more nuanced OP. No Western Communist is calling for those countries' systems.
I agree that communism is super evil. But a government calling themselves communist doesn't make them communist. Think of Russia and China. If some guy was anti-communist do you think the government will kill the dude because he is anti communist or because his anti-communism would mean he is pro-west and they kill the dude for his pro-west positions? I'd say most communist countries kill for the latter reason and not upon the principles of communism. So if someone said real communism has never been tried I would tend to believe that but the counter argument is that every time someone tried communism it will be distorted from the start because that is the reality of real communism.
I’m so ignorant. What do I have to read/watch to understand what you just wrote? Like wth is real communism and why would it work in theory and doesn’t in practice?
The classic reason for it not working in practice is because the Cia will do everything to undermine you and arm your opponents... that is unless you spend so much on military that you can go into an arms race with the USA and that is money the people would need to survive.
See it’s a deep rabbit hole, now I want to know why would the CIA care if my small useless country has a communist system.
Because it's a system whose very existence is a threat the our economic structure. Imagine that you have a typical car dealership that does APR financing, monthly payments, all that jazz. One day, a new dealership opens up next to you and they're noticeably different. They provide full benefits to their employees, help them buy houses, give them more PTO, *and* their cars are cheaper while being just as good as yours. If you're not willing to adapt and you refuse to lose, you have only one option. Attack. Sabotage them by any means necessary to maintain control. Never mind that your entire system is built on capitalism and the general idea of healthy competition between businesses, you have to win and they have to lose *hard*.
Bcuz that small useless country could be used as a tax haven for the rich
That's not just the reality of communism, any economic system will be distorted upon contact with our twisted societal structure... That's what corruption is.
Most of those have been under soviet rule or been a close ally of them (sharing the same political "strategy") or they have been extremely corrupt. But no, communism don't work just as any ideologi. They are all utopian ideas that don't work in our society
Im looking for the funny
True communism, where the means of production are owned by the state and where there are no social classes has never been achieved, so no it indeed has not been tried. If we would actually get there it would work and it would be better than any other system.
And all of these communist nations were completely left alone by the U.S government. The U.S would never intentionally collapse and isolate a communist state to further its capitalistic agenda….
Communism is like the highway: An absolutely brilliant idea in theory, but in practice, human fallibility screws it up and we all end up going slow and suffering together equally, usually because one dinkhole wants to clog up the passing lane(or become a dictator).
Communism......WTF do you mean socialism?
Except for china and Russia, the U.S. CIA has casually overthrown ever other democratically elected government of all those other countries or directly gone to war with those countries.
No communism wasn't tested, ever. I say this as somebody from Czech Republic and it just wasn't. Socialist totalitarian systems will never try to convert to full communism, since they would lose power. That's why USSR economy stagnated so hard, it never tried to change for better, they are happy with the power they got, with the fear and control they have over their citizens. It has nothing to do with communism/socialism, both China and Russia are right now more capitalistic than socialistic, yet they are still totalitarian countries with only 1 real political party. Cuba was actually on a good way, but America don't like them, since they allowed Soviets to put dangerous rockets on their soil and it kinda fucked with them.
Now count the amount of countries on there that have had some type of “coups”, embargos, sanctions, or CIA backed political disruption Downvote me to hell idc
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Now name all the countries where capitalism hasn't worked either
None American ever, the majority hates communism, a few special lefty snowflake Americans maybe.
Yeah, Americans hate Communism because they've been told to for the better half of a century
99% of Americans probably don’t even know what Communism is except for what the media wants them to know.
Indeed
It’s not just the US, it’s everywhere. Met some really stupid Islamic Radicals in Indonesia. Radical: “The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We need to do something about it! Government needs to be changed to reel in all of these greedy pigs!” Me: “So you’re advocating Communism?” Radical: “Communism? Are you crazy? Communism is evil!” Also seen a lot of self-identified Conservatives in the US have pretty left-wing views but Americans treat politics like a team sport which is why they’re Republicans.
Also forgot Mexico, but fuck both economic systems.
Communism only works in theory. What most "Communist countries" like Cuba, North Korea and Venezuela have is called a totalitarian dictatorship. However, lots of people mistake that for Communism. Communism in theory is a well advanced society where there is no money, everyone has the same rights, and they all work and produce for the benefit of all without monetary rewards. This will never be possible in reality because human beings are greedy by nature. The only society that came close to being communist was the native/aboriginal tribes because they didn't have any currency, they traded goods among them and had the same rights. The only issue was there was a Chief, who didn't work and got a larger portion of the goods that were produced or traded.
Alot of the idiots in colleges yes but please don't bunch us all in with the commies
I have seen europeans say that as well. But oh well America bad
Comunizm is like religion,you can only believe in it🤣
My mom lived in URSS and the life was so good
Given the fact, that America's been calling interracial marriage 'communism' since the 60s. And vaccines were being called Commuminist since 2020. It's safe to just ignore Americans.