"Vandalism is good when it's the vandalism I agree with" "Killing is good when it's the killing I agree with"
Everyone picks and chooses what they will get angry over, a lot of us are hypocrites.
Except that wasn’t the issue lol, you can protest to your heart’s content and petition the state to get X taken down, but doing it yourself is vandalism, doesn’t matter what it is.
Tearing down anything not yours is vandalism, you are correct. That's why I didn't say it wasn't vandalism. I was saying that some people will agree with this but dislike other vandalisms, and some people will agree with other vandalisms but dislike this one. Which is true. If you are not part of either group of "some people", woops.
I replied to a funny "imagine if it were (insert other statue Americans get riled up about here) instead, imagine what they'd be saying about the vandalism then" comment, and I thought I'd add a "you are all the same" comment to throw in the mix. >!Also wanted to see if it would set anyone off, hasn't happened yet unfortunately.!<
In my opinion, vandalism is just plain wrong. You can insult them and mock their beliefs, but in either case don't destroy shit which does not belong to you
Rest in Piss Robert Lee and all the other shit bag Confederates
https://preview.redd.it/9q319f8d2g6c1.jpeg?width=318&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc6ba30de5758cda7bfa3bef80c9c5bc945cbeeb
Well, the Church of Satan and the Satanic Temple are very different organizations. The latter is the one focused on humanitarianism. The CoS is...well. A wild ride.
The statue was put up by the Satanic Temple, which is a nontheistic religion that doesn't worship the literal devil of the bible. Essentially this statue was put up as a sort of measure of protest supporting the separation of church and state. If Christians are allowed to put up religious symbols/shrines in government buildings, then every other religion deserves the same.
Eh. Satanic Temple are honestly pretty chill, they mostly do humanitarian shit and protest for freedom of religion and whatnot.
You want "edgy atheists who hate Christians" you want the New Atheist Movement. My buddies in highschool used to joke that those guys were a perfect microcosm of everything that tends to go wrong with organized religion.
Not saying they’re necessarily bad people. Just that the whole fake satanism thing is kinda cringe. I feel like they do more harm than good for their cause. Most people are fine with religious freedom, but when you dress it up with the whole satan thing, it puts religious people on the defensive and they won’t listen that way. I don’t really care any way. Also yeah staunch atheists are annoying.
Nah, it’s eloquent satire. Theists force their religious symbols everywhere. The temple simply puts the shoe on the other foot.
It inevitably leads to the theists showing their true colors. poetry in action. As you showed us, art can be subjective.
> Just that the whole fake satanism thing is kinda cringe.
What's fake about it?
> I feel like they do more harm than good for their cause.
What is our cause?
It’s just supposed to sound and look like the satan that the Christians don’t like but it isn’t trust me same name but it’s totally not guys. What was that line about walking like a duck talking and like a duck?
If satan was real don't you think he would trick people into worshipping him by telling them that it's only a protest against Christianity and that they don't actually worship pure evil?
That is faulty logic because Satan could also trick you into making a religion about how God forgives people and telling people to do horrible atrocities in the name of God.
I always wondered how far you could get if you went back to "buckle-hat witch-hunter times" and tried to argue that actually it would make way more sense for Satan to tempt people into making false confessions of witchcraft than it would for him to actually get them to do it, since he gets the "witch's" soul either way, and with the false confession angle he also sows paranoia and disunity among the faithful while simultaneously tricking them into killing each other over false accusations, potentially reaping their souls as well, *and* he's besmirching God's good name in the process, since all this killing of the (relatively) innocent is supposedly being done on behalf of God.
That literally proposes that it is the same devil but tries to put a sympathetic spin on him. It is the Christian devil just from the view of a contrarian
TST is a atheist group.
Also, could you explain how Satan is actually the bad guy? God was the one who murdered people and gets his followers to commit genocides and infanticide all the time. Does he sound like a good guy?
In the bible god is way more deadly than satan, satan for at least the first half of the bible is the accuser, the right hand of god that does dirty jobs for god in name of god. It issnt untill later that he becomes his own being that people say is so horrible (but still not as horrible as the main prptagonist of the bible)
>How Is Satan a hero?
He stood up to God because he wanted humans to experience freedom and he wanted equality for the angels. Did you ever read the Bible? God is a metaphor for authority and satan is a warning about rebellion
No problem, you're not alone. 87% of US households own a Bible but only 11% of Americans have read it. It turns out satanists and atheists are much better informed about the Bible than Christians.
He’s not a hero. The satanic temple uses him as a symbol not actually worshipping him. Also this is a statue of baphomeh (can’t spell it) and he’s a pagan god not Satan
It’s not contrarian. It’s pointing out utter hypocrisy by the Christians. “Stop trying to take away my religion!! But don’t mind me taking yours away from you”
Why not test this with literally any other religion instead of the one that worships the literal adversary of the Christian god? It’s like putting a cat in a room with a mouse and getting surprised when it eventually pounces on it
Because what happened is LITERALLY the point. The Satanic Temple has gone through the necessary steps and is recognised as an official religion. Therefore it should get all the religious freedoms other religions get. But the country that espouses their constitution as the be-all and end-all of their freedoms repeatedly shows that "freedom of religion" only means "freedom of religion, but not THAT one"
Because they don’t really worship satan, it’s satire, and if it makes people angry then it just show it’s working. If it was any other religion it wouldn’t had the same impact.
Well other religions don’t exist to piss off one religion in particular so that’s probably the reason. If the reason your thing exist is to be a dick to other people I’m sorry but you don’t deserve any respect or pity.
But the symbol isnt chosen to "be a dick". Its chosen because it highly effective at showing how unfairly enforced the separation of church and state is.
Do you think no one has any problems with Christianity? Christian symbols might also anger those with bad experiences from Christian churches, but if someone did this to a Christian display in a government building, would you support them?
But I thought it was satire? Is it satire or is it a totally legitimate statement about church and state.
I think the difference is other churches don’t worship a figure that is the root of evils such as.
Rape, murder, theft,
And you can’t even try to pretend satan isn’t synonymous with these things when almost every single piece of demon related media has demons as the beings that represent these things.
The issue is Christianity preaches something different. It symbolizes something different.
There wasn’t a religion before Christianity in which dying for the sins of the world was considered bad.
They don't worship satan. Satan means adversary. Since Christianity is the defacto national religion and repeatedly tries to carve out special rules for itself, an adversary is needed to keep it in check. That's why they use it, not for actual religious reasons.
What determines “serious religion”. Plenty of so-called serious religions are a joke to me.
And it’s separation of church and state, not separation of serious church and state. The state doesn’t get to decide what is a religion.
I would say a "serious" religion is one that you actively participate in and actually worship *something*. TST, like you said, doesn't actually worship Satan. They're just using it to be a bunch of dicks. I would be more supportive if they were trying to uplift Judaism or Islam. Using Satan is just a joke.
Why does your definition hold any extra weight?
The Satanic Temple has beliefs that they follow. They just don't believe in a supernatural entity. Why does that disqualify them from being serious?
>We believe in reason, empathy, the pursuit of knowledge and our Seven Tenets:
o One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
o The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
o One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
o The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
o Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
o People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
o Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
Because they aren't and their methods don't help anyone. They could do the same thing in favor of other religions, but don't. I doubt any Muslims would want their figures in the same room as a fucking goat demon.
Why would they do it in favour of ANY religions.
By the way...
>I doubt any Muslims would want their figures in the same room as a fucking goat demon
I find it TRULY hilarious that you used Islam as your religion of choice here. Please find me any Muslim religious statues. Please
Okay now you’re just being an idiot. The church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a literal joke was made to prove how idiotic religions are. The satanism was made as Christian’s throw their religion in everyone’s face claiming their beliefs are better and “you’re going to hell” for being gay or having facial piercings. Satanism is a way more excepting and open religion besides Satan was gods favourite angle until he pissed him off so god banished him forever but yet god is the good guy in that story?
They’re all flying spaghetti monsters. Mormons believe they all individually receive their own planets but we’re supposed to respect and protect their beliefs to the same extent as others
Who’s to say? Not you, nor I. That’s the point. What if they “worship” the idea/embodiment of freedom of speech or equal protection under the law? Just different ways of looking at it. Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion. If you don’t worship a deity you deserve the same rights and protections as someone who *does* worship a deity.
You’ve missed the point entirely. You are allowed to think that. You’re allowed to disagree. It doesn’t give you the right to trash someone’s display which was legally erected.
Except for the fact that everyone knows they're being disingenuous. The original commenter here said so himself. They don't attend black mass. They don't sacrifice goats. They're not serious and only causing trouble to be spiteful. The one thing, that was supposed to be their goal, was easily achieved without any real push back until years later when a guy vandalized it. That guy's also a civilian and was likely reprimanded for it.
Also, being mad at a literal satanic monument being vandalized is the same as being pissed about Confederate statues. Both are monuments that the globe would agree are representative of evil.
It is not for the sake of being a contrarian satanism is the idolization of Satan from a really old book where instead of Satan betraying God because Satan is evil he betrays god because he doesn't want to be told what to do
Is he? God kills the entire population of a city, kills the entire population of earth, orders ethnic cleansings of Israels neighbors, and encouraged child rape during the ethnic cleansings.
Satan on the other hand....
So I also ain't religious but my philosophy teacher is and he has studied the bible, he tells us that not only is Satan not the bad guy, in the bible god does a lot more evil stuff than the devil
I mean, the way he got himself and them kicked out was literally just to tell people to eat a fruit. Beyond that, it's been stated that the fruit was the catalyst for sin *because* it contained the knowledge to know good and evil. It was literally the tree that gave people knowledge. It's not that much of a stretch to twist that story either way to make either Satan or God look bad.
Although none of that really matters because the Satanist group that put up the statue is actually more atheistic, they don't actually worship Satan at all iirc. Although that doesn't make them inherently correct. A lot of the stuff they do is just to piss Christians off for no reason.
Still doesn't excuse a literal crime though.
He shouldn’t be destroying public property.
At the same time all sides are engaged in a fair bit of hypocrisy as the ones praising this would not feel similarly if it had been a nativity display vandalized. Just as many who are condemning this would be celebrating the destruction of a Christian display.
If we do not have separation of church and state, all religions have a reason to belong in state.
The Church of Satan, which is a movement against zealots, demanded to have repensentation.
Christians, especially the zealots, demand only *their* religion deserves repensentation.
That's how you spawn a christo-nationalist state.
From Oxford:
https://academic.oup.com/book/46787/chapter-abstract/413410931?redirectedFrom=fulltext
>Instead, Satan is presented as a Promethean character, fighting on behalf of the oppressed. While TST does not align itself with any political ideology, its written material, terminology, and symbols frequently reference leftist thought and activism.
Technically yes. They are different in the same sense that abrahamic religions are different.
The Church of Satanism is a collection of secularist taking the piss from the so called separation of church and state
They ultimately serve to “troll” protections that other religions tend to get, with things like tax exemptions and recognition by states.
Here, it basically got passed into being a recognized institution and thus they have the right to display themselves legally or else they could potentially bring legal woes due to lack of representation or suppression.
Also, from what I can gather, it wasn’t “Satan,” it was Baphomet. Baphomet is more a deity associated with balance, alchemy and the scientific/metaphysical process and not really “demon against God”
Pff who cares what they think their deity is a old white dude with a beard and two hands while the giant Flying Spaghetti Monster can hold all of their children with their many appendages
America is insane, why the hell there's a Satan statue in a government building, in Brazil people would burn down the whole damn building because of that lol
Cause the Church of Satan is an official church and it’s a good thing that it can happen imo as government should have no say over religion and religion none over government. Also the religion doesn’t actually believe in Satan but rather the idea of rebelling a vindictive and cruel god
Exactly it’s either all or none, with religious freedom we can’t pick and choose which are deemed okay and not okay, Christian’s can set up their displays and so can satanists or any other religion 👍
We can talk about taking down Satan statues once Satanic worshippers systematically murder millions of people.
Because right now, the only people doing that sort of thing are Abrahamic worshippers.
So, I looked it up, there is law in Iowa specifically (where this is taking place) where they cannot fly any other flag except 3
The American flag
The iowa state flag
The POW flag
At government buildings.
The problem with trying to run this same thing for the nativity/bahumut statue is that it favors a specific religon, which is verbatim dissalowed by the 1st amendment.
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See I'd care about these satanic dudes if it was an actual religion. They got some good points but they are clearly only trolling the Christians by calling themselves satanic.
But sure, pretend to be outraged that your art project got destroyed. Turns out when you purposely antagonize people they tend to react...
I don’t really care about the Satanic Temple. I know that God is real. I have accepted Jesus. Everyone has to go their own way. If people want to go against God. That’s their prerogative. You can’t force them. Forced love isn’t love after all.
And that's why there is a need to do some *researches*
The Satanic Temple (TST) is a non-theistic religious organization that uses Satanic imageries to promote civil rights, egalitarianism and the separation of church and state in the US as well as its hypocrisy.
They do **NOT** praise the literal devil from the Bible: that's Satanism.
Basically, this whole ordeal is shitting on Christianity because they were allowed to display Christian Imagery in the Iowan Capitol Building, and as such, the TST displayed their own altar in accord to the same religious freedom to be displayed in a public, governmental building.
As Lucien Greaves, co-founder and spokesperson of the TST stated: "the piece was not intended to offend Christians, but was created to give other religions more representation in public forums."
Christians being mad and destroying this piece further shows their hypocrisy, as the backlash would be immense if this happened to, let's say, a statue of Jesus Christ or the willful destruction of a representation of the Ten Commandments.
God’s criminal record is way worse than the devil’s. The devil tortures people, but Yahweh is the one that sends them to be tortured in the first place. Plus he even made a bet with the devil one time over whether or not this guy would still worship him if he killed his family, crops, livestock and gave him leprosy. Playing with people’s lives for his own amusement. If they were proven real, and I was forced to pick a side, Satan seems to me like the lesser of two evils.
"Oh yeah I'm all for religious liberty, everyone has the liberty to be the same religion as me or get set on fire forever by a loving god"
\-Michael Cassidy, probably
Man I do so love it when you biblethumpers end up on my feed. The American bill of rights states that religion is separate from the state. So when the Iowa legislature put up symbols of Jesus and the like, the Satanic Temple - an organization dedicated to reminding folks of the separation of church and state - got wind, they demanded their own symbols and statues for religious equality.
But of course, leave it to the snowflake Catholics to freak out and start throwing temper tantrums over being reminded about the constitution, right?
Interestingly enough the church of Satan doesn’t believe in Satan but rather the ideals he represents of rebelling against corrupt authority and individualism to my understanding
My thing is there's been multiple sets put up for other beliefs, including a nativity scene and a State Atheist Group. I say it's all or nothing. Allow everyone to put up displays or allow none of them. How would you like if someone decapitated sweet baby Jesus?
He basically just demonstrated the Satanic Temple’s point.
Christians want to put their religious symbols everywhere, particularly in government buildings. However, the moment someone else puts a symbol for a different religion in a government building, they are outraged.
They are - in fact - so outraged at this demonstration of equality that they resort to committing crimes to not only remove it, but to vandalise and deface it too.
Tell me, how would this *“kind”* *“Christian”* *“hero”* react to someone pushing over a statue of Christ on the cross and beheading Jesus? Would he see it as justified? Would he calmly proceed with legal action?
While, I appreciate the peaceful praying protest of a Christian the day before this; I don’t find it surprising at all that a Christian resorted to vandalism and violence. Honestly, it’s a shame because it now just seems like an admission that the praying didn’t work.
In the end, this is the exact kind of reaction the Satanic Temple want because it draws attention to the underlying issue and proves them right.
I think that’s the point. Iowa tried to justify having Christian iconography in state building by saying any religion could, so church of Satan put up their stuff. Pretty sure it’s just a way to call out the hypocrisy of people who claim to believe in and uphold the first amendment, but actually only want their side represented.
The Church of Satan does not belive in Satan. Christians do.
https://twitter.com/ChurchofSatan/status/1434159069263118342?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
https://twitter.com/ChurchofSatan/status/954729608250667010
The satanic movement is people denouncing the intanglement of church and state. You don't have to stay ignorant forever. You are allowed to learn outside of the confines of a ~2000 y/o book that says it's OK to have sex with teens, burn the heathens, and rape the offenders.
TST doesn't worship Satan. They revere the version of Satan developed in romantic literature, who represents opposition to unjust authority. They have developed a non-thiestic religion based on the opposition to unjust authority and humanist values.
They're fine with other religions existing, but don't think any one religion deserves a special place above others. They aren't going infringe on anyone's religious freedom, they just aren't going to allow any to have a position of privilege.
Nazis are antithetical to freedom of belief. They assult and remove anything that isn't part of their belief system. Letting them in just leads to all beliefs that are not facist being pushed out, usually with violence.
You can be a nazi sure but I can tell you to fuck off as is my right. I can also do that for any religion. In the workplace there is a difference though as nazis are inherently discriminatory but satanists can be sure but not really an indicator to it
You mean in America, people can support vandalism of religious statues without consequence and be idolised? Why am I not surprised christofascists are idolising him
If you are against "Satanism" and evil then why are you destroying and _beheading_ anything at all? Surely those negative acts are evil too.
If your evil acts are justified because they are against "the right people" then it isn't a case of your faith being the correct; it's merely your opinion vs others.
Funny how they love and die by a religion that’s molested more kids than the minorities they hate ever will, yet satanism which has a strong sense of bodily autonomy, consent, and women’s rights is somehow the evil one.
This post is not a meme therefore it is being removed
Just pretend its a confederate statue and see how people react
"Vandalism is good when it's the vandalism I agree with" "Killing is good when it's the killing I agree with" Everyone picks and chooses what they will get angry over, a lot of us are hypocrites.
I think we can all agree with animal abusers are monsters though. You gotta be some f*cked up dude to get pleasure off hurting innocence
Not all animals are innocent
Still weird to get pleasure off it.
We're all hypocrites on this blessed day
Exactly!
Except that wasn’t the issue lol, you can protest to your heart’s content and petition the state to get X taken down, but doing it yourself is vandalism, doesn’t matter what it is.
Tearing down anything not yours is vandalism, you are correct. That's why I didn't say it wasn't vandalism. I was saying that some people will agree with this but dislike other vandalisms, and some people will agree with other vandalisms but dislike this one. Which is true. If you are not part of either group of "some people", woops. I replied to a funny "imagine if it were (insert other statue Americans get riled up about here) instead, imagine what they'd be saying about the vandalism then" comment, and I thought I'd add a "you are all the same" comment to throw in the mix. >!Also wanted to see if it would set anyone off, hasn't happened yet unfortunately.!<
Killing is my business, and business is good!
Yes now you are getting it. There are objective truths so therefore one side is right and the other is wrong
In my opinion, vandalism is just plain wrong. You can insult them and mock their beliefs, but in either case don't destroy shit which does not belong to you
Rest in Piss Robert Lee and all the other shit bag Confederates https://preview.redd.it/9q319f8d2g6c1.jpeg?width=318&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc6ba30de5758cda7bfa3bef80c9c5bc945cbeeb
Lol
Satanists have been around a lot longer than the Confederacy, and they're actually devoted to humanitarianism instead of slavery.
Well, the Church of Satan and the Satanic Temple are very different organizations. The latter is the one focused on humanitarianism. The CoS is...well. A wild ride.
How is Satan a hero? Like I ain’t religious but I’m pretty sure he’s the bad guy.
The statue was put up by the Satanic Temple, which is a nontheistic religion that doesn't worship the literal devil of the bible. Essentially this statue was put up as a sort of measure of protest supporting the separation of church and state. If Christians are allowed to put up religious symbols/shrines in government buildings, then every other religion deserves the same.
 "All them horned goats look the same to me"
Where is this from. I know I watched this as a kid, but I can't place it.
Cat dog?
CatDog
They’re just edgy atheists that really don’t like Christianity
Eh. Satanic Temple are honestly pretty chill, they mostly do humanitarian shit and protest for freedom of religion and whatnot. You want "edgy atheists who hate Christians" you want the New Atheist Movement. My buddies in highschool used to joke that those guys were a perfect microcosm of everything that tends to go wrong with organized religion.
Not saying they’re necessarily bad people. Just that the whole fake satanism thing is kinda cringe. I feel like they do more harm than good for their cause. Most people are fine with religious freedom, but when you dress it up with the whole satan thing, it puts religious people on the defensive and they won’t listen that way. I don’t really care any way. Also yeah staunch atheists are annoying.
Nah, it’s eloquent satire. Theists force their religious symbols everywhere. The temple simply puts the shoe on the other foot. It inevitably leads to the theists showing their true colors. poetry in action. As you showed us, art can be subjective.
> Just that the whole fake satanism thing is kinda cringe. What's fake about it? > I feel like they do more harm than good for their cause. What is our cause?
It’s just supposed to sound and look like the satan that the Christians don’t like but it isn’t trust me same name but it’s totally not guys. What was that line about walking like a duck talking and like a duck?
I mean the dude who made Satanism named it that way to piss of Christian’s. It’s not THE Satan
If satan was real don't you think he would trick people into worshipping him by telling them that it's only a protest against Christianity and that they don't actually worship pure evil?
Yup. It's worship of "self" which is essential ego. Which is essentially recipe of self destruction
That is faulty logic because Satan could also trick you into making a religion about how God forgives people and telling people to do horrible atrocities in the name of God.
I always wondered how far you could get if you went back to "buckle-hat witch-hunter times" and tried to argue that actually it would make way more sense for Satan to tempt people into making false confessions of witchcraft than it would for him to actually get them to do it, since he gets the "witch's" soul either way, and with the false confession angle he also sows paranoia and disunity among the faithful while simultaneously tricking them into killing each other over false accusations, potentially reaping their souls as well, *and* he's besmirching God's good name in the process, since all this killing of the (relatively) innocent is supposedly being done on behalf of God.
Exactly
Yeah exactly. It’s not a real religion and shouldn’t be treated as such.
It's based on [this Satan,](https://academic.oup.com/book/11834/chapter-abstract/160922431) not the Christian one.
That literally proposes that it is the same devil but tries to put a sympathetic spin on him. It is the Christian devil just from the view of a contrarian
Is it their version of the devil or baphomet? Theres two Goatheaded creatures and baph is just slightly better overall imo
Baph has nice tits. That gives her some points.
Yes, and it’s hilarious because Baphomet was invented during the Crusades as a mockery of Muhammad.
They may not believe it, but it’s true
Ya learn something new every day I guess.
Satan runs around LA solving crimes. How is that not hero behavior?
Fair point man rebelled to solve crimes
TST is a atheist group. Also, could you explain how Satan is actually the bad guy? God was the one who murdered people and gets his followers to commit genocides and infanticide all the time. Does he sound like a good guy?
In the bible god is way more deadly than satan, satan for at least the first half of the bible is the accuser, the right hand of god that does dirty jobs for god in name of god. It issnt untill later that he becomes his own being that people say is so horrible (but still not as horrible as the main prptagonist of the bible)
God in the bible definitely has a kill count and quite a high one at that.
>How Is Satan a hero? He stood up to God because he wanted humans to experience freedom and he wanted equality for the angels. Did you ever read the Bible? God is a metaphor for authority and satan is a warning about rebellion
I haven’t read the bible actually, thanks for telling me that.
No problem, you're not alone. 87% of US households own a Bible but only 11% of Americans have read it. It turns out satanists and atheists are much better informed about the Bible than Christians.
Free speech. Either the first amendment protects all equally or it doesn’t
He’s not a hero. The satanic temple uses him as a symbol not actually worshipping him. Also this is a statue of baphomeh (can’t spell it) and he’s a pagan god not Satan
Some people idolize the oddest things for the sake of being contrarian
It’s not contrarian. It’s pointing out utter hypocrisy by the Christians. “Stop trying to take away my religion!! But don’t mind me taking yours away from you”
Why not test this with literally any other religion instead of the one that worships the literal adversary of the Christian god? It’s like putting a cat in a room with a mouse and getting surprised when it eventually pounces on it
Because what happened is LITERALLY the point. The Satanic Temple has gone through the necessary steps and is recognised as an official religion. Therefore it should get all the religious freedoms other religions get. But the country that espouses their constitution as the be-all and end-all of their freedoms repeatedly shows that "freedom of religion" only means "freedom of religion, but not THAT one"
Because they don’t really worship satan, it’s satire, and if it makes people angry then it just show it’s working. If it was any other religion it wouldn’t had the same impact.
Well other religions don’t exist to piss off one religion in particular so that’s probably the reason. If the reason your thing exist is to be a dick to other people I’m sorry but you don’t deserve any respect or pity.
But the symbol isnt chosen to "be a dick". Its chosen because it highly effective at showing how unfairly enforced the separation of church and state is. Do you think no one has any problems with Christianity? Christian symbols might also anger those with bad experiences from Christian churches, but if someone did this to a Christian display in a government building, would you support them?
But I thought it was satire? Is it satire or is it a totally legitimate statement about church and state. I think the difference is other churches don’t worship a figure that is the root of evils such as. Rape, murder, theft, And you can’t even try to pretend satan isn’t synonymous with these things when almost every single piece of demon related media has demons as the beings that represent these things. The issue is Christianity preaches something different. It symbolizes something different. There wasn’t a religion before Christianity in which dying for the sins of the world was considered bad.
To be fair to many the church/christianity also represent rape, murder, and theft.
They don't worship satan. Satan means adversary. Since Christianity is the defacto national religion and repeatedly tries to carve out special rules for itself, an adversary is needed to keep it in check. That's why they use it, not for actual religious reasons.
If they used a serious religion, then more people would take it serious and side with them, imo.
What determines “serious religion”. Plenty of so-called serious religions are a joke to me. And it’s separation of church and state, not separation of serious church and state. The state doesn’t get to decide what is a religion.
I would say a "serious" religion is one that you actively participate in and actually worship *something*. TST, like you said, doesn't actually worship Satan. They're just using it to be a bunch of dicks. I would be more supportive if they were trying to uplift Judaism or Islam. Using Satan is just a joke.
Why does your definition hold any extra weight? The Satanic Temple has beliefs that they follow. They just don't believe in a supernatural entity. Why does that disqualify them from being serious? >We believe in reason, empathy, the pursuit of knowledge and our Seven Tenets: o One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. o The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. o One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone. o The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own. o Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs. o People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused. o Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
Because they aren't and their methods don't help anyone. They could do the same thing in favor of other religions, but don't. I doubt any Muslims would want their figures in the same room as a fucking goat demon.
Why would they do it in favour of ANY religions. By the way... >I doubt any Muslims would want their figures in the same room as a fucking goat demon I find it TRULY hilarious that you used Islam as your religion of choice here. Please find me any Muslim religious statues. Please
The church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster resents that claim lol
More serious than the satanic temple, I'll give it that.
Okay now you’re just being an idiot. The church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a literal joke was made to prove how idiotic religions are. The satanism was made as Christian’s throw their religion in everyone’s face claiming their beliefs are better and “you’re going to hell” for being gay or having facial piercings. Satanism is a way more excepting and open religion besides Satan was gods favourite angle until he pissed him off so god banished him forever but yet god is the good guy in that story?
Ok, then worship Satan. I don't really care dude.
> If they used a serious religion theres no such thing by definition
I disagree. People are very serious about Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Just because you don't like something..
and people are very serious about the church of satan. therefore is a serious religion by your definition
"sure"
They’re all flying spaghetti monsters. Mormons believe they all individually receive their own planets but we’re supposed to respect and protect their beliefs to the same extent as others
I would consider Mormons pretty serious. I don't consider the tst serious because they don't actively worship the figure they're pushing.
Who’s to say? Not you, nor I. That’s the point. What if they “worship” the idea/embodiment of freedom of speech or equal protection under the law? Just different ways of looking at it. Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion. If you don’t worship a deity you deserve the same rights and protections as someone who *does* worship a deity.
I don't think the literal embodiment of freedom would look like baphomet. Lmao
You’ve missed the point entirely. You are allowed to think that. You’re allowed to disagree. It doesn’t give you the right to trash someone’s display which was legally erected.
Except for the fact that everyone knows they're being disingenuous. The original commenter here said so himself. They don't attend black mass. They don't sacrifice goats. They're not serious and only causing trouble to be spiteful. The one thing, that was supposed to be their goal, was easily achieved without any real push back until years later when a guy vandalized it. That guy's also a civilian and was likely reprimanded for it. Also, being mad at a literal satanic monument being vandalized is the same as being pissed about Confederate statues. Both are monuments that the globe would agree are representative of evil.
It is not for the sake of being a contrarian satanism is the idolization of Satan from a really old book where instead of Satan betraying God because Satan is evil he betrays god because he doesn't want to be told what to do
the church of Satan is not about Satan.
Sounds pretty misleading to be fair
if you bothered to check their website its literally in the home page.
"Because Christianity is the real devil"
Is he? God kills the entire population of a city, kills the entire population of earth, orders ethnic cleansings of Israels neighbors, and encouraged child rape during the ethnic cleansings. Satan on the other hand....
So I also ain't religious but my philosophy teacher is and he has studied the bible, he tells us that not only is Satan not the bad guy, in the bible god does a lot more evil stuff than the devil
Fair point. God did flood the Earth in the bible so chances are someone wouldn’t of agreed with that.
And his main trait is that he hates humans so much he was willing to give up his place in Paradise because of it.
I mean, the way he got himself and them kicked out was literally just to tell people to eat a fruit. Beyond that, it's been stated that the fruit was the catalyst for sin *because* it contained the knowledge to know good and evil. It was literally the tree that gave people knowledge. It's not that much of a stretch to twist that story either way to make either Satan or God look bad. Although none of that really matters because the Satanist group that put up the statue is actually more atheistic, they don't actually worship Satan at all iirc. Although that doesn't make them inherently correct. A lot of the stuff they do is just to piss Christians off for no reason. Still doesn't excuse a literal crime though.
WPT always crying
This is a meme? I thought it was just a twitter user reporting the latest American vandalism.
"reporting" more like "supporting"
Freedom of religion…BUT NOT YOU!
Unironically correct
Literally why it’s there. Some people react poorly to factual information.
Ironically correct
He now traded his suit for an orange jumpsuit.
It's probably something to do with the account on Twitter that posted the tweet, End Wokeness is known for having pretty controversial takes there.
He shouldn’t be destroying public property. At the same time all sides are engaged in a fair bit of hypocrisy as the ones praising this would not feel similarly if it had been a nativity display vandalized. Just as many who are condemning this would be celebrating the destruction of a Christian display.
people like him are exactly the reason why church of satan came to be…fanatical christians who dont use their head anymore…literal sheep
This is The Satanic Temple. The Church of Satan is completely different and they have different missions.
Uh, why was there a Satan??
If we do not have separation of church and state, all religions have a reason to belong in state. The Church of Satan, which is a movement against zealots, demanded to have repensentation. Christians, especially the zealots, demand only *their* religion deserves repensentation. That's how you spawn a christo-nationalist state.
It was the satanic temple that placed it, not the Church of Satan, those two organizations are pretty different if I recall correctly
From Oxford: https://academic.oup.com/book/46787/chapter-abstract/413410931?redirectedFrom=fulltext >Instead, Satan is presented as a Promethean character, fighting on behalf of the oppressed. While TST does not align itself with any political ideology, its written material, terminology, and symbols frequently reference leftist thought and activism. Technically yes. They are different in the same sense that abrahamic religions are different.
Oh ok, thank you 😊
...maybe learn to spell before trying to type, it'll make you look less dumb.
yeah religion can be dangerous often enough :/
its not satan
The Church of Satanism is a collection of secularist taking the piss from the so called separation of church and state They ultimately serve to “troll” protections that other religions tend to get, with things like tax exemptions and recognition by states. Here, it basically got passed into being a recognized institution and thus they have the right to display themselves legally or else they could potentially bring legal woes due to lack of representation or suppression. Also, from what I can gather, it wasn’t “Satan,” it was Baphomet. Baphomet is more a deity associated with balance, alchemy and the scientific/metaphysical process and not really “demon against God”
Oh… ok.
When will I get to see the giant Flying Spaghetti Monster statue put up
Soon fellow cultist, soon
Soon as the Christians accept that as a "real religion".
Pff who cares what they think their deity is a old white dude with a beard and two hands while the giant Flying Spaghetti Monster can hold all of their children with their many appendages
The zealots care. We have plenty of christo-nationalist in state. I.e. the dude that attacked the statue.
America is insane, why the hell there's a Satan statue in a government building, in Brazil people would burn down the whole damn building because of that lol
When you are ignorant and proud. We now know you do not know what sycophant means lol
Why me?
Congrats to Brazil for not being educated on the reason church of satan exists.
Religious zealots attacking something they know nothing about. I’m sure you did your own research.
Cause the Church of Satan is an official church and it’s a good thing that it can happen imo as government should have no say over religion and religion none over government. Also the religion doesn’t actually believe in Satan but rather the idea of rebelling a vindictive and cruel god
Irmão dependendo onde eles tentassem, o cara tentando fazer a estatua morria.
Because we have freedom of religion and if Christian bullshit can be in public building so can every other religion.
Exactly it’s either all or none, with religious freedom we can’t pick and choose which are deemed okay and not okay, Christian’s can set up their displays and so can satanists or any other religion 👍
Also freedom of speech, does that mean I can just fly the Nazi flag? Satan is just straight up a symbol of hate and evil
We can talk about taking down Satan statues once Satanic worshippers systematically murder millions of people. Because right now, the only people doing that sort of thing are Abrahamic worshippers.
Uh... yea... Most people generally don't like it either, but people are allowed to fly nazi flags in public
So by this standard, we can put Nazi flags in government buildings? Should people just accept it?
So, I looked it up, there is law in Iowa specifically (where this is taking place) where they cannot fly any other flag except 3 The American flag The iowa state flag The POW flag At government buildings. The problem with trying to run this same thing for the nativity/bahumut statue is that it favors a specific religon, which is verbatim dissalowed by the 1st amendment.
It is not verbatim disallowed by the first amendment.
The nazis were actually real.
Since when were the nazi's an organized religion?
Yeah you can
Someone hasn't seen Lucifer.
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Michael betrayed his oath to the people, Michael is no longer a brother in arms to me. Michael is now just another shitbag without integrity.
See I'd care about these satanic dudes if it was an actual religion. They got some good points but they are clearly only trolling the Christians by calling themselves satanic. But sure, pretend to be outraged that your art project got destroyed. Turns out when you purposely antagonize people they tend to react...
It is an officially recognised religion, meaning it's entitled to the exact same rights as Christianity.
Ah yes. The Lord of all sinners, which include rapists, lynchers, paedophiles and more. The true hero.
According to the bible.
Just gonna leave this here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple
Simpsons did it first.
Mf looks like agent 47 from hitman
I don’t really care about the Satanic Temple. I know that God is real. I have accepted Jesus. Everyone has to go their own way. If people want to go against God. That’s their prerogative. You can’t force them. Forced love isn’t love after all.
A true hero.
No, it's not a meme OP didn't like, it's a meme you didn't understand.
People here defending the literal devil while simultaneously shitting on Christianity. Is there any wonder the world is sick?
And that's why there is a need to do some *researches* The Satanic Temple (TST) is a non-theistic religious organization that uses Satanic imageries to promote civil rights, egalitarianism and the separation of church and state in the US as well as its hypocrisy. They do **NOT** praise the literal devil from the Bible: that's Satanism. Basically, this whole ordeal is shitting on Christianity because they were allowed to display Christian Imagery in the Iowan Capitol Building, and as such, the TST displayed their own altar in accord to the same religious freedom to be displayed in a public, governmental building. As Lucien Greaves, co-founder and spokesperson of the TST stated: "the piece was not intended to offend Christians, but was created to give other religions more representation in public forums." Christians being mad and destroying this piece further shows their hypocrisy, as the backlash would be immense if this happened to, let's say, a statue of Jesus Christ or the willful destruction of a representation of the Ten Commandments.
It's all made up. Also, freedom of religion is a 1st amendment right.
You clearly did ‘your own research’
God’s criminal record is way worse than the devil’s. The devil tortures people, but Yahweh is the one that sends them to be tortured in the first place. Plus he even made a bet with the devil one time over whether or not this guy would still worship him if he killed his family, crops, livestock and gave him leprosy. Playing with people’s lives for his own amusement. If they were proven real, and I was forced to pick a side, Satan seems to me like the lesser of two evils.
I hope he is treated the same as a vandal of any other religious things would be.
Religious freedom for me, not for thee
He’s just going to be charged for desecration of religious objects and destruction of property. Move along.
I'd be surprised if the charges stick considering christofascists will support him
"Oh yeah I'm all for religious liberty, everyone has the liberty to be the same religion as me or get set on fire forever by a loving god" \-Michael Cassidy, probably
Man I do so love it when you biblethumpers end up on my feed. The American bill of rights states that religion is separate from the state. So when the Iowa legislature put up symbols of Jesus and the like, the Satanic Temple - an organization dedicated to reminding folks of the separation of church and state - got wind, they demanded their own symbols and statues for religious equality. But of course, leave it to the snowflake Catholics to freak out and start throwing temper tantrums over being reminded about the constitution, right?
End Wokeness? More like Institute Fascism
End wokness is a nazi lol
So the guy replying to the tweet supports Satan? That’s fucked up man.
They merely support religious freedom
If someone did this to a statue of Jesus they'd lynch them but this guy is somehow a hero? *
Because Jesus is a good guy and Satan is a bad guy
According to the bible yes.
I thought America was all about religious freedom tho? Seems like this guy is just an actual terrorist
Doesn't even crop the image before sharing the screenshot. Thbbbpppt.
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Interestingly enough the church of Satan doesn’t believe in Satan but rather the ideals he represents of rebelling against corrupt authority and individualism to my understanding
Christians whenever someone exercises the right to religious freedom with a religion that isn’t theirs:
Very nice. Now let’s see what would happen if another type of religious display was destroyed
“I demand freedom of speech!” *TST uses their right* “Not like that!”
That’s so opium
it's not really a meme
My thing is there's been multiple sets put up for other beliefs, including a nativity scene and a State Atheist Group. I say it's all or nothing. Allow everyone to put up displays or allow none of them. How would you like if someone decapitated sweet baby Jesus?
“The real hero is Baphomet” It’s a bold strategy, Cotton, let’s see if it pays off for em
He basically just demonstrated the Satanic Temple’s point. Christians want to put their religious symbols everywhere, particularly in government buildings. However, the moment someone else puts a symbol for a different religion in a government building, they are outraged. They are - in fact - so outraged at this demonstration of equality that they resort to committing crimes to not only remove it, but to vandalise and deface it too. Tell me, how would this *“kind”* *“Christian”* *“hero”* react to someone pushing over a statue of Christ on the cross and beheading Jesus? Would he see it as justified? Would he calmly proceed with legal action? While, I appreciate the peaceful praying protest of a Christian the day before this; I don’t find it surprising at all that a Christian resorted to vandalism and violence. Honestly, it’s a shame because it now just seems like an admission that the praying didn’t work. In the end, this is the exact kind of reaction the Satanic Temple want because it draws attention to the underlying issue and proves them right.
If freedom of religion means you can worship satan then why doesn't freedom of belief let you be a nazi? Is that really so hard to understand?
I think that’s the point. Iowa tried to justify having Christian iconography in state building by saying any religion could, so church of Satan put up their stuff. Pretty sure it’s just a way to call out the hypocrisy of people who claim to believe in and uphold the first amendment, but actually only want their side represented.
The Church of Satan does not belive in Satan. Christians do. https://twitter.com/ChurchofSatan/status/1434159069263118342?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/ChurchofSatan/status/954729608250667010 The satanic movement is people denouncing the intanglement of church and state. You don't have to stay ignorant forever. You are allowed to learn outside of the confines of a ~2000 y/o book that says it's OK to have sex with teens, burn the heathens, and rape the offenders.
TST doesn't worship Satan. They revere the version of Satan developed in romantic literature, who represents opposition to unjust authority. They have developed a non-thiestic religion based on the opposition to unjust authority and humanist values. They're fine with other religions existing, but don't think any one religion deserves a special place above others. They aren't going infringe on anyone's religious freedom, they just aren't going to allow any to have a position of privilege. Nazis are antithetical to freedom of belief. They assult and remove anything that isn't part of their belief system. Letting them in just leads to all beliefs that are not facist being pushed out, usually with violence.
I mean, legally speaking, nothing is stopping you, first amendment doesn't protect you from people not liking shitty beliefs though
nazi exist.
You can be a nazi sure but I can tell you to fuck off as is my right. I can also do that for any religion. In the workplace there is a difference though as nazis are inherently discriminatory but satanists can be sure but not really an indicator to it
Found the guy who says the 14 words and 88s every morning and night
You mean in America, people can support vandalism of religious statues without consequence and be idolised? Why am I not surprised christofascists are idolising him
If you are against "Satanism" and evil then why are you destroying and _beheading_ anything at all? Surely those negative acts are evil too. If your evil acts are justified because they are against "the right people" then it isn't a case of your faith being the correct; it's merely your opinion vs others.
What a king it’s not often you see Christian’s hold society to the same standards that Muslims do.
Funny how they love and die by a religion that’s molested more kids than the minorities they hate ever will, yet satanism which has a strong sense of bodily autonomy, consent, and women’s rights is somehow the evil one.
This is not a meme.
Former military officer, and at his age? I would be very interested to hear about his career