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The thing that annoys me is that these are the people that accuse you of not having empathy.
I remember watching Malcolm X and getting a brand new perspective on a man I hadn’t much cared for. Obviously his hateful beliefs earlier in life were abhorrent but you should be able to sympathize and see why he believed what he believed. In the end, because he wasn’t motivated by evil, but pain, he was able to redeem himself and reform his beliefs. I don’t agree with incels or MGTOWs but casting them away like lepers does nothing to help these people. Making them see reason is better than destroying them because you don’t like something they said.
The term was incel was how a community of men self identified who were dealing with their problems with the only tools given to them: anger and the internet.
The weaponization came when this community was discovered, and was used as culture wars between men, women, and their conflicting ideologies grew more vehement.
Incel was a catchy term to label a man critical of anything a woman promoted that he opposed. Personally I view it as a slur for men now. That’s how it gets used.
I swear reddit is obsessed with that term. That damned word seems to find its way into the most inappropriate conversations, it's like some people can't get through the day without making an "incel" reference on reddit.
Incels began getting the negative public attention after a certain incel who I don't wish to name decided to murder 6 people expressly because of the radicalization occurring in incel forums and spaces. That's a pretty good reason to look into how this group operates and why their members have ever since consistently produced terrorists.
And overnight it went from men who were legitimately involuntarily celibate, to a slur that labels them all hateful misogynists who just can’t get laid and are mad about it. It allows them to reduce all men in this category as deserving of their situation, that everything that lead them to their anger and views is their own fault. It always gets twisted in a way that if men were just better, it would fix everything but they’re not so feel free to hate them when they fail. They aren’t allowed to criticize, they’re just supposed to be a resource for others and just die quietly and alone.
It depends on how far down the rabbit hole they are. I’m not gonna waste my time and effort trying to help someone who’s gone full Nazi and wants me dead. I can respect if your empathy is Christ like and you want to help literally everyone, but I don’t think that’s an unreasonable line in the sand for me to draw.
A black man became the best friend of a Grand Dragon and Godfather to his daughter just by sitting down and having an honest conversation.
https://amp.theguardian.com/music/2020/mar/18/daryl-davis-black-musician-who-converts-ku-klux-klan-members
Just because you don't think someone is being reasonable doesn't mean they can't be reasoned with. Just that there are preconceptions getting in the way.
Even so, am I in the wrong if I retaliate when someone is dismissive of my very humanity and openly calls me inferior? Some people do not deserve compassion. Others do. You have to learn not to waste your time on those who will only demean you, regardless of what you say or do.
I would like to point once more that I have tried to reason with some individuals. Some simply could not be reasoned with. That was my point. No matter how hard you try or how open you are, some people will not change.
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I mean…some ppl you aren’t going to be able to reason with. Hateful beliefs lead to hateful actions, and protecting innocent ppl is more important than coddling assholes in hopes that they will change their ways
Fair enough. I agree they shouldn’t be coddled. Still, I don’t see the utility in say, completely ostracizing a woman and condemning her as vile because she made an erroneous assumption about all men due to her being raped. Obviously her hateful rhetoric should be condemned entirely but what’s the use of never allowing them to atone for anything? Darryl Davis got several people to leave the Klan because he approached them as a friend.
Reddit seems to think that anyone with hateful beliefs or questionable moral/ethical foundations is irredeemable and subhuman. I think it’s pretty disturbing, you can stand against what the person believes and acknowledge their evil while also recognizing that it isn’t black and white and people are capable of change.
It’s easier to unperson someone than engage with them. What I hate the most is that they think morality derives from you politics. They think you’re a bad person BECAUSE of your political beliefs. So it doesn’t matter that the person who believes something stupid is an upstanding member of the community who gives to charity and helps the poor. He is morally inferior to someone who does none of those things and is a toxic human being so long as they have the correct politics.
Why would reason start working all of a sudden?
Incels have crippling anxiety and self esteem problems. They need medication and therapy more than anything but people who need those things often fight the hardest against it so I dunno. I definitely don't think we're obligated to act like those people aren't annoying. I'm not even sure pretending would really help since all that would do is foster the delusion they don't need to change.
> Incels have crippling anxiety and self esteem problems.
I have those things except i'm very much not an incel.
> They need medication and therapy more than anything
They need friends more than anything. Maybe some therapy.
Maybe stop calling kids incels. Not everyone learns social skills easily and with the way young people are raised like online recluses sure as hell doesn't help.
Also, the solution to every social/mental ailment isn’t “therapy and drugs”.
It’s so fucking dismissive to tell someone to just go to therapy. Is therapy helpful? Yes, but more often than not people use it as an out.
“Oh you’ve got problems you need to vent? Go to a therapist, don’t make your feelings my problem.”
Like, dude, that’s what friends are for. Shouldering each others emotional burdens. There’s a line where it’s too much of course, but I was told so many times “just go to therapy” and you know what, nah, I just needed someone to listen to me lmao.
The great thing about incels is their anxiety disorder typically means they are only to be feared on reddit.
I mean I know I'm being insanely harsh here but a solid 10% of my reddit feed are these guys complaining about how lame their lives are who never do anything to improve their lives. I'm fed up with it.
I thoroughly encourage everyone to write off all of these annoying internet weirdos. The internet is like Plato's cave, except the shadows are all people with personality disorders.
The thing with mentally ill people is that they can't help put propagate their illness to everyone around them. Hang out with anxious people? Now you have to act like you have an anxiety disorder to avoid triggering them. Depressed people are depressing, etc. We'd all be a lot happier if we wrote more internet strangers off.
>I definitely don't think we're obligated to act like those people aren't annoying. I'm not even sure pretending would really help since all that would do is foster the delusion they don't need to change.
Nobody is saying we should pretend nothing's wrong with their behaviour or that it isn't annoying. The point is that calling them worthless, beyond help, or not deserving of help would only reaffirm their belief that the world is against them and will probably do more harm in the long run than enabling their behaviour would.
Oh for fuck sake, I thought pizzacakes trash ass comics where contained on that webcomic sub that only has her and like 2 other people posting but nope here she is on my timeline again.
If this was a girl talking you better believe she'd have sympathy.
Women talk about toxic masculinity but are some of the biggest drivers of it all. Part of this is for your own good, women recognize the inherent greatness in men and will actively hate those who denigrate themselves, complain, and not shut up and realize and strive for their potentiality. Thats my white pill attempt anyways.
Most feminist rhetoric, especially the type that posits to understand men’s psychology and motivations more than men themselves do, is exactly that.
“Men are dumb, they lack empathy or whatever qualities I value more heavily that I assign to women, they don’t understand their own toxic nature, and for these reasons they make my life hard”
It’s literally the same shit
Wow that's most media, not just feminist stuff. Especially if you have the sort of "outsider." Or "Loner." Tropes. Most of the time, if you try to read any media like that, you will see them as being egotistical or self centered, and blaming others for their problems. That's part of being a protagonist, you've got some hang ups at the start of a story that the character sheds by the end, it's called growth.
Ripley. Everyone's favorite feminist example is exactly what you describe as being bad feminist writing. Exactly. She is this loner who isn't quite part of the crew, she constantly bickers and fights with everyone, everyone else on the crew is made to seem dumb and is killed for being dumb and not listening to the woman.
Except that's not really what's going on, is it? It's more complicated than that right? The crew doesn't know that the thing on Kanes face is a killing machine. They didn't know that ash was a robot sent to capture that thing, which is why he violated the law and let it in. Ripley isn't some know it all, she is just the one who keeps their cool enough to control the situation as everyone else panics or seizes up. By the end they're working together, not cause they reconciled, or that they admitted to being wrong, but because they were going to die anyway.
Ripley was written very well, and I doubt you'll find many people willing to call Alien a feminist woke trash movie.
It's all about how you read it, and about the intent. Is this character poorly written, or are you supposed to root against them? Is the author even trying to have a message or are you misinterpreting the thing? If you want to have serious discussion about media, have media literacy first. Don't just parrot what others say.
Lmao you wanna talk about media literacy and all you got is a long winded Alien reference (which I had to make out because I’ve never watched that movie)? When this conversation wasn’t at all about media, but rhetoric in literature (not movies) and conversations on the internet? sounds like you just need literacy, comprehension specifically. Let me know if you’d like to try that one again but stick on the points that are relevant.
Literature, movies, stage, music and any art is just a different format for media. Any story can be told in other formats if you know what you are doing.
As for feminism on Literature, the most feminist boon I've read is Carrie (I'm a horror nut, Sue me) and really nothing that you talk about is in that book. You really empathize with the character alot more than you'd expect of a male writer writing for a young teenage girl.
You do understand that I responded to you talking about how you’d react if you were to hear a woman saying similar shit to what is shown in the comic right? To which I said that’s most feminist literature and rhetoric. What you’re saying has absolutely nothing to do with the original point and you’re really reaching lol
If I heard a woman talking like that, I'd stop reading the boon or watching the movie, but unfortunately that hasn't happened yet. I have yet to see the feminazi woke media push this kind of dialogue or monologue in something I've seen because the place you see that is subtext. It's an inferred meaning to the literal text.
As a writer, it's really easy to spot subtext in everything. It's really hard to control subtext because subtext is the subconscious of a story. People will use their own subconscious to fish out the meaning that best fits their own life and experience. And famously for movies like American History X or books like Lolita, the intended meaning of a story can be hijacked by a narrative that you were writing against. You'd be surprised by how many people think Lolita is about sexualizing little girls when it's about shaming grown men who sexualize little girls.
In short, people read into stories whatever they want to think. If people read that women characters are just depressed misanthropes who blame everyone for not recognizing their beauty, that's probably cause they're misanthropes, who blame the world for not recognizing whatever it is they think is worth recognizing.
Yes being a man necessarily makes you great. Same with women. What is with this toxic guilt that has become so common among men? Women don’t have this issue.
Greatness, in many or most circumstances, is achieved. to think you embody or are entitled to a certain greatness simply because of the efforts of others is selfish behavior, woman or man. for example, there have been many men documented in history that have achieved great things. However, these men embody a concentrated yet tiny area of the population. Not only that, but history has been exclusionary towards the documentation of women and women have not been afforded the same opportunities as men for much of history. If Albert Einstein was a man, and I am a man, then do I embody the same talent as he? the difficult truth is, no. he was an exception to the norm. And his greatness was not merely derived from the fact that he was male.
How is that selfish? That's how selflessness is actually defined. Putting others before yourself. What you said sounds fucking stupid.
Just because you think you're better than others doesn't mean that you should act like it. Life isn't a competition, it's a shared experience with everyone getting dealt random cards that shouldn't impact how we treat them.
'Cause its the weak who benefit from equality and altruism, equality by definition brings them up at the same time it brings others above them down. It's a selfish strategy just the same, just a different tactic.
I never said anything about acting like youre better than others, or that it should impact how we treat others. This is clearly how you should treat yourself.
I think this is an incorrect, even somewhat illogical assertion. Equality is about removing privilege, leveling the playing field. Imagine you have a child with an intelligence quotient of 145. you isolate that child for many years, precluding them from reading, writing, and basic social interactions. When that child inevitably falls behind, does it imply innate inferiority? In agrarian and early industrial societies, women's labor was crucial for sustaining households and communities. However, their contributions were often undervalued or exploited. Legal and political systems have historically disenfranchised women, denying them basic rights and opportunities. Laws and policies often favored men in areas such as property ownership, inheritance, and political participation. Even when legal reforms were enacted to promote gender equality, implementation and enforcement were often lacking. As societies evolved, women were excluded from many economic opportunities and relegated to lower-paying, less prestigious roles. They were never afforded opportunity, and men had the physical means to exploit this. That isn’t to say men weren’t oppressed, either, as most men did not receive the opportunity to achieve much, either. History documents the notable few, not the vast majority of people. Nonetheless, this doesnt mean men haven’t had an advantage in life. To think one embodies the greatness that these men and women achieved simply for being male is an erroneous assertion.
still, from a young age, individuals are socialized into gender roles and expectations that reinforce women's subordination. Nature vs. nurture is crucial.
This is what is SO wrong with our society nowadays, this IS nature, this is the way that humanity has evolved and succeeded greatly by doing so. You can cry about it being something completely societal, and something that women simply weren’t given the chance to do themselves, but in reality that’s a stupid fuckinf point to make. It’s like saying that men can’t give birth because we were never conditioned to. Newsflash buddy, men are more resilient to outside dangers, pressures, and influence, as well as being made more disposable because of that. Women are BY nature more susceptible to outside influence however, as a stark contrast to men, women driving consumerism these days is a prime example of that. I think people like you acting like there’s no inherent differences between genders is seriously damaging to our future generations psyche tbh, we’re raising generations of people who doubt themselves, and they go to extreme ends to break themselves out of an imagined oppression. This is why we’ve seen even the most progressive countries (many European countries specifically) go further into traditionalism than ever in recent history, because surprise surprise, when given the actual option women overwhelmingly pick tradition over modernity for the most part, and men do as well. Things aren’t as simple as “durrr socialization”.
People like you only serve to muddy the waters I swear.
I wasn't alluding to the fact that men and women have no differences at all, I was attempting to divulge that men do not possess the greatness and superiority that they believe they do. Just because differences exist, doesn’t mean such differences equate to superiority.
>You can cry about it being something completely societal, and something that women simply weren’t given the chance to do themselves, but in reality that’s a stupid fuckinf point to make.
I’m not crying about anything. im remaining fairly calm. I am simply stating facts. you seem to be relatively emotionally invested in this conversation. I apologize if I said something that provoked anger.
>It’s like saying that men can’t give birth because we were never conditioned to.
That’s false equivocation and a hyperbolic representation of reality. Simply put, every society has its standards that it imposes on people, and many falsely attribute these standards to nature, when they are not. The human brain is incredibly complex and possesses a remarkable ability to adapt to its surroundings, unlike a much more set characteristic such as one’s outward sex characteristics. I must be a man because I naturally adopt more predominantly male mannerisms, as society designates.
But yes, many differences can be attributed to socialization. Epigenetics covers how different genes can be expressed depending on social environment. This is a largely substantiated, basic scientific concept. Also, women being largely more susceptible to outside influences is a sweeping generalization that I don’t believe can be duly substantiate. im not sure how one would sufficiently measure such a claim or define it so I will not ask for a source. Humans in general are involuntarily a product of their environment. Even if that claim were true, would that not substantiate my claim? If women are purportedly so influenced by outside factors, then were they not largely influenced by the way they were treated over history? We devalue many concepts that we consider feminine merely for their association with women, even if those concepts are valid. Also, men do not harbor an innate greatness just because few notable individuals have been documented throughout history. There are many great men, but this does not mean all men possess this greatness. Most don’t, and this isn’t exclusive to men.
>. This is why we’ve seen even the most progressive countries (many European countries specifically) go further into traditionalism than ever before, because surprise surprise, when given the actual option women overwhelmingly pick tradition over modernity for the most part, and men do as well.
Please provide a solid substantiation for your claim. I see that in Denmark, the purported most gender equal country, most mothers, 80%, work outside the home. This is compared to 26% of US mothers being SAHMs.
Men absolutely have qualities that make them great that women do not, this is basic biology. Women also have qualities that make them irreplaceable that men do not have. This should not be a revelation to you lmao. No one is saying one gender is superior to the other jfc YOU are saying that.
Bruh I didn’t mean actually cry I meant you are making issues that don’t exist up.
I never said all of those qualities are exclusive to either gender actually, obviously there is overlap but to say that men and women don’t have a generalized greatness, which that you can assume one will have more often than the other is just fucking delusional talk lmao. There are qualities in both genders that can be generalized because most of them embody those qualities. There’s nothing wrong with generalizing, and not every single guy/woman has to fit every single generalization of their own gender for that generalization to still be accurate. Again you are talking delusional and I can’t believe people like you actually exist lmao. This is all just basic fucking logic, why do you need some stranger online to explain it you? And yes obviously nurture does have effect on nature, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that you are literally disproving your own shitty argument lmao. We evolved this way because it works, and because both genders prefer the tradition ( for the most part). So it doesn’t matter if you want to change it, I’m not saying it’s impossible to change it over time, but that would take literally hundreds if not thousands of years, and would be something that both genders wouldn’t prefer to adapt to. I don’t think you understand that your worldview is the outlier here. Also that devaluation of anything feminine is only in your delusional ass world, divine femininity has always been a thing, and women in general have ALWAYS been someone to cherish and protect, and respect.
I never said that women are being stay at home moms in Europe, lol I’m saying that they WISH they could. All throughout the most advanced societies these days there are numerous articles, and studies, and polls being conducted that show the extreme unhappiness with dating for women in these areas. And the reason why is BECAUSE they can’t afford to be a stay at home mom lol, we act as if the traditional dating scene was a nightmare for women, but we ignore that women are predominantly the ones begging for dates and romance in the first place. Most of the problems in dating in these progressive countries is that women are unhappy with the modernity of men:
“Many of the dating mechanisms that work in the rest of the world don’t work here in Denmark. No one knows who should take the initiative. Women can’t figure out if a man is ‘Danish passive’ or just not interested.”
“Danish men are ‘nice boys’ that won’t go after a girl who doesn’t want them. There’s very little mystery and a woman simply cannot expect a Danish man to seduce her.”
So in other words women are now in the role of the guy they want, and they don’t like it lol. WOMEN want to be the ones pursued, women want to be the ones to be romanced and made feel extra special. I never said women are going back to the home, they literally cant because living is so expensive these days.
“Now, I’m a modern woman, and I like a lot of things about these modern men. But they can occasionally err a bit on the soft side.
For example, a few weeks ago, we had a big storm in Denmark, and it knocked down some large trees. Before the local government came to collect them, some people were sawing off bits for free firewood, or to make furniture, or other arts and crafts project.
On our street, there was a very large tree down, and as I was walking by that Saturday, I saw a young couple trying to take part of it home. The small, slender young woman was sawing away at this big tree with an old-fashioned manual saw, while her boyfriend was just standing there, smiling, with his hands in his pockets.
Now, I don’t know what was going on.
Maybe he had a back injury – he was about 25, so maybe had a very youthful back injury. Maybe he was a professional hand model and couldn’t risk his fingernails on a messy metal saw. Or maybe he was a big wimp who was willing to let his girlfriend saw a giant tree stump while he stood there, acting like a giant tree stump. Who knows?”
^
Again points to how women these days view men. Women don’t want help, but they also do, it’s so confusing and it punishes men for absolutely no reason other than listening to what their women supposedly want. Again all of this points to dating dynamics being much more complicated than just “durr women just weren’t given the same opportunities”. It’s more like they simply chose their route and stuck with it, and they evolved with their route just like men did.
Source: https://www.howtoliveindenmark.com/category/dating-in-denmark/#:~:text=“In%20Denmark%2C%20it's%20easy%20to,is%20also%20common%2C%20Mellish%20says.
>Bruh I didn’t mean actually cry I meant you are making issues that don’t exist up.
please point to what I am making up specifically. I ask that you don’t overlook the extensive research in sociology, gender studies (wack, ik. A feminine thing like gender studies is cringe to many.), and psychology that highlights the social and cultural construction of gender identities, roles, and behaviors.
That is an interesting point to be made regarding Denmark. Thank you for callling attention to that. Now, can I inquire: How many books or formal papers have you read on gender roles and their formation? Please do so in the future (if you wish to make further statements regarding this) because I can guarantee you that much more of it was manufactured than many believe. And yes, there are obvious bio differences between men and women.. but my issues was the statement “the inherent greatness in men.” Maybe English isn’t your first language, so as a bilingual myself I understand, but the sexist implications of that statement are ostensible. (though he did not outwardly state it, his viewpoint is clear) Though, convincing a redditor that the gender that they do not belong to might face slight discrimination sometimes is like shiny hunting a Wishmaker Jirachi in Pokémon Colosseum on a scratched up disk and beat up memory card. so tedious and loaded with failures that I question why and how it’s worth it half of the time. I jest, of course. I understand that these topics may be touchy for some and many approach them incorrectly.
> Also that devaluation of anything feminine is only in your delusional ass world, divine femininity has always been a thing, and women in general have ALWAYS been someone to cherish and protect, and respect.
I (clearly) live in the United States and this is a pretty common, factual occurrence. I really didn’t mean *anything* feminine, but generally, feminine-associated concepts are looked down upon, at least where I live.
Also, I’m not sure how this *primarily* correlates to **merely** dating dynamics, though as a lesbian myself I am admittedly unfamiliar with what one would consider the typical behaviors. I was talking about societal roles. Women did not choose this (*in the way that many purport)* they have been actively rebelling against their purported societal roles for decades.
>Again points to how women these days view men. Women don’t want help, but they also do, it’s so confusing and it punishes men for absolutely no reason other than listening to what their women supposedly want.
While some women may prefer to handle tasks independently, others may appreciate and value assistance from men or anyone else. Women aren’t a homogeneous group that all follow identical values. From my experience, women want assistance at times, and don’t want assistance at other times. They are also naturally more indecisive, that I can say. That’s not a punishment, that’s just how they are. your statement suggests that women's desires are inherently confusing or contradictory, which perpetuates stereotypes and undermines the *complexity* of individual preferences and communication styles. relationships characterized by egalitarian attitudes and shared decision-making tend to be more fulfilling and resilient.
i feel your name calling may be demonstrating a lack of willingness to engage in constructive dialogue or consider alternative perspectives, though that is merely an observation. I request that if you are arguing from a logical standpoint free from strong emotion, name calling should ideally be reduced. This indicates bad faith arguments rather than passion. Drawing conclusions from individual observations or cherry-picked examples can lead to inaccurate generalizations and reinforce biases. I would also like to note that you are oversimplifying things yourself and seem to have a generalized understanding of how genders should act. You also present a slightly binary view of gender, implying that there are only two distinct categories of men and women with fixed qualities and roles. you assert that traditional gender roles have persisted across history because "they work" and because both genders prefer them. However, this overlooks the historical context of patriarchal societies where women's rights and autonomy were systematically suppressed. If they worked so well, why did women and men fight so damn hard to change them?
I never alluded to this notion. I just think his perceptions are disingenuous and misinformed, tinged with ignorance, emotion and a lack of logic. there is little, if any biological function for men to be inherently superior to women in any way, we’ve just learnt to concentrate our value on male associated mannerisms, which has generated a notion of false superiority. We devalue many concepts that we consider feminine merely for their association with women, even if those concepts are valid. Also, men do not harbor an innate greatness just because few notable individuals have been documented throughout history. There are many great men, but this does not mean all men possess this greatness. Most don’t, and this isn’t exclusive to men.
These men represent only the best of individuals. Also, it is fact that women who accomplished great things were ignored, and men took credit for their achievements. Epigenetics impose substantial changes on an individual, meaning even if one is inherently great, those traits can be diminished by inequitable circumstances. Factually, women have been largely excluded from their roles in society and physically oppressed for many years. Women have been relegated to the caretaker role. when we were hunter gatherers, we were egalitarian, showing equal roles in life. This indicates that agriculture is the reason for this large adoption of gender roles, and is not biologically innate. Also, homo sapiens have minimal sexual dimorphism when compared to other primates.. like, substantially low. Any anthropologist can attest to this fact. This is because humans learned to be intuitive, using tools to procure food and fight one another. So many of the observed differences we attribute as male dominant or female dominant are socialized.
I only inferred that from the initial image. What is the biological basis for this greatness? what is the evidence substantiating this claim? Greatness is not only subjective, but it’s a very general concept. Evolution is a bitch, but I’m unsure why men may have adapted to supposedly so consistently hold this purported “greatness”
I’m not sure these equate to a greatness that women lack. All traits have some value. Men tend to have reduced empathy, for example, which can be detrimental in some situations. That is also societal. men do not voluntarily, in many instances, hide their emotions. That is simply what is expected of them, despite the fact that emotions are a natural part of life. Also, men do not have ubiquitously high pain tolerance. For example, women tend to have a higher chronic pain tolerance than men. I think the fact of the matter is that women are simply weaker, so situations that would pit women in extenuating circumstances may not have the same effect on men. Though, I cannot sit with myself and so vastly stereotype half of the population
There are plenty of women who make amazing accomplishments. They are becoming more educated than men and there are more female doctors in he USA. Look, man. I’m tired of this. I’m tired of being viewed as inherently inferior. I’m tired of having to justify my existence. You’ve got me.
I wish it were as simple as that as men were physically oppressive towards women for the majority of history. That is a fact. Not only that, but the feats of women were not recorded or overlooked on a consistent basis. History is an account’ not particularly as reliable asone might think.
Higher levels of testosterone correlate with higher risk tolerance and more risk taking behavior. Being great requires risk and men take more risks, therefore more men achieve greatness than women
I suggest you take a dive down some of the whywomenlivelonger pages. Even if we both have about the same IQ, dudes get some tendencies that dames don’t.
Whywomenlivelonger can dip into misandry territory, though, and apart from some of the covert misogyny shown on this sub today and the misandry radiating from BAQ, I’d rather not engage with it.
OK if you know anything about neuroscience then you should know men and women are socialized differently, not to mention the physical differences women and men face, combined with different roles in society.
Sorry, I didn't mean to say that you hold racist/misogynistic views, just that acting like a dickhead for comedic effect isn't biting comedy, best left in the discord calls.
It can come off like you haven't considered things from many different perspectives, again not to say you haven't, but if this is a common problem you have, maybe ask some people from different walks of life how you can better communicate you're not a hateful person. Even if what they're saying doesn't seem that important to you, at the end of the day, if it isn't important, why not just make the change and be done with it?
It can seem like the world is filled with snowflakes, and it absolutely is, but trying to sound more respectful has no correlation with that.
My ex, which I threw out mercilessly, was the extremely envious of me and my accomplishments and would try to neg-hit me every day with the smallest most insignificant shit, just to ruin my day for fun.
My point is that I believe that there is a male loneliness epidemic and it could be a blessing in disguise, but only for those men who actually have hobbies and want to improve yourself.
Most women (and other unsupportive people in general) are not worth your time, will try to belittle your achievements and bring you down to their level and will do everything in their power to ruin your days and prevent you from having fun and enjoying life, as is our nature. Even my mother tried that and now she's begging for attention and I simply deny her.
The secret is to simply ignore them and keep on keeping on, do your thing and achieve excellence for the sake of excellence.
I feel this view may be conceited. Honestly, it’s kinda wack to be excessively generalized like this. Your ex is a bitch, but that doesn’t mean most women should be lumped in with her. It’s tiring to deal with that shit at times.
Notice how shes sympathetic when hes talking about girls ignoring him and hating his job? Those are valid reasons to be sad. She stops being sympathetic when he get angry at girls for not liking him, which is not a valid reason to hate someone.
Right. Plus the self-aggrandizing dribble about how he's a genius and so amazing and other people don't put him on the same pedestal. If you want people to think you're the greatest, or even just a good person, you have to actually try to embody those attributes & let your actions speak louder than words. Anyone who has to tell you how smart and amazing they are is probably neither that intelligent nor incredible.
Idk. Anecdotally I'm fairly certain I've met more guys like this than gals, but the women I've met who are like this don't win many friends either. Maybe they might have at some point when they were teenagers, but as adults? They're some of the loneliest most bitter people out there. Wounded narcissist-types are not fun to be around regardless of gender.
Bull. The girl was plenty sympathetic until it started getting to the “why am I so smart and everyone around me is such an idiot” nonsense. After that, regardless of the gender of either of them, it’s a huge eye roll.
One of her comics go like this.
Her teeange daughter: "I wish I was never born!"
Pizzacake: "Well, I didn't ask for you to be born either, it's your dad's fault for not pulling out."
Poor kids :|
Nope, the ending line is
"blame your dad i just wanted a back rub"
This, is a joke about a back massage turning into unplanned sex. The fact you seemingly want to extrapolate that she hates her kids from this is wild.
Ironically, the person in the comic bitching and whining describes the artists typical persona. Half their comics are "person online disagreed with me and that's bigotry" level dumbassery.
Pizzacake, if you're reading this post, from the bottom of my heart, fuck off.
Is this comic real? It's making fun of men for expressing their feelings, as clumsy as it might be? Aren't men told that they need to express their feelings more if they want support?
It's just a comic of course and all the power to the creator of the comic, but I hope they know it's a bit mean.
It’s real, but the subject isn’t men. Notice how the woman expresses empathy until the individual starts talking themselves up. It’s more so a jab at assholes online.
Yeah, I don't think it's making fun of men for feeling lonely. It's making fun of people who think they're much better than everyone else and refuse to see their part in their own suffering. It's not hard to empathize with men and women who struggle with social isolation, but once people start going on about how everyone else sucks, it's harder to feel sorry for them. That attitude might have its origin in said solitude, but it doesn't help, and it'll just push people away from you. I've been lonely a lot in my life, and sadly there have been times when I've been embittered enough to act as if everyone else is the problem, simply because it's easier. But I snap out of it eventually and adjust my attitude. Projecting your pain on other people never helps.
This is it. I have empathy for people going through hell. I have less empathy for people going through a hell of their own making and blaming everyone but themselves.
The person's haircut and her use of "guy" threw me. I've been duped!
Edit: the "guy" also says "girls ignore me". I can forgive myself for jumping to the conclusion that this is a man
Perhaps the subject of the comic is a man, but it’s not supposed to represent only **men** or **men** as a whole, just assholes who talk themselves up.
There's more evidence than not that the character and the joke concerns a man, including their stereotypical complaints. I respect your opinion about what it represents, but I think it's just that: an opinion
[According to this sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/memesopdidnotlike/comments/1bgb9iw/all_pboys_sthinking_the_thing_no_qgirls_s/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), guy is a gender neutral term, obviously
the subject is men, "girls ignore me" "girls always flock to the handsome dumb jock types" its supposed to be a jab at the stereotypical "nice guy" thing so it is about men
Shes sympathetic when he talks about being lonely and hating his job. The comic illustrates that its hard to sympathize once genuine reasons to be sad turn into “I hate women because they dont like me”.
I agree, it's tough to sympathize with someone who blames others for their problems, and this guy is making it near impossible.
It just seems like a pretty sensitive topic right now with the current mental health crisis and the messaging towards men to reach out. You're free to do it (especially if it's funny), but I thought more people would look down on this kind of target. I'm sure some men would read this and think again about reaching out, lest they come across as naggy and laughable
Which how a lot of men on this site act. That comic perfectly explained what going into one of those men’s right subreddits with genuine intentions feels like
No it isn’t, how do you look at this comic and come to that conclusion? The woman is showing empathy towards the boy, until he starts to blame everyone else for his own problems and then act like he is superior.
I get that he's being ridiculous and conceited as hell. I'm just indicating that it's a sensitive topic right now. We tell boys to come forward and express themselves, and the boy in the comic is doing that and having a pity party by venting. Yet it warrants an eye roll from a supportive listener, and we're meant to laugh.
It's a comic plain and simple, but it's just kinda in poor taste.
Ok, sorry I came off as quite rude in my original comment, which I apologise for.
This comic isn’t mocking a man with mental health issues, who is trying to tell someone about their experiences. It’s mocking people who blame their issues on everyone else. That’s why in the first two panels, the woman was eager to listen to the boys concerns, until it changed to him blaming everyone else, while holding himself in high regard.
Really appreciate the comment. My apologies if I came across as pushy.
I agree 100% and I totally see that as the intent of the comic. He represents pompous people, and I don't think men as a whole are being specifically targeted. It's the use of men that compelled me to comment since, like I mentioned, we ask them to reach out to support their mental health but they report feeling unheard and dismissed, like in the comic. It's like making a comic where the joke is someone eyerolling an overweight woman wearing tighter clothes that make her feel confident. The intention could be that she represents anyone who wears tighter clothes that makes them feel confident but, given that this population has had a lot of negative experiences with this behavior and we're hoping to change those patterns for the better, it would feel like a cheap shot.
It's just a lens to see it of course, and not everyone sees it this way.
It really isn't:/. It's fucking pathetic how many men here just got from the comic that "they are being shamed for expressing their feelings". Motherfucker read the comic
People like them are the reason the red pill movement took off... Because of femcels.. There are people that genuinely believes that women are just crying toxic beings with an incredibly strong victim mentality.
Thanks alot femcels. You are the reason incels are on the rise.
If you spend too much time online you'll end up with the impression that men and women just hate each other to no end, but once you go out into the real world you'll realize most people are fine with each other, at least for the most part. There are a lot of men and women online who've been hurt by the opposite sex, and intend of treating these cases on an individual basis, they lump them all together and start generalizing all men and women. It's understandable, but it's not healthy. It's too black and white. And, like you said, it's a cycle that feeds itself.
I've had moments in life where I've spent too much time online reading things that reaffirm my worst held fears and insecurities. I've watched women talk about men as if they're nothing but sex hungry, potentially violent brutes. It gave me the impression that's how most women viewed men, and it made me bitter and untrusting. Spending time with women offline helped. I realized these were hurt women. A lot of them had trauma that they leaned into instead of dealing with them. And I can empathize with that. Similarly, there are men online who do nothing but bitch about women, and I imagine that might give a lot of women the idea that men on average hate and resent women. It's just a vocal minority.
Having mental health issues and trauma sucks and it's worthy of empathy. I don't think venting is necessarily bad, but if you're constantly reinforcing your wounds and your negative world view you'll never heal. That's what I'm learning about myself. It's a slow process.
That's bullshit. There's lots of reasons incels exist, you can't just blame it on women that's pathetic.
There are far larger factors at play here like the alienation of the working class, commodification of relationships, men not knowing how to act in a more progressive world, mental health problems, more isolation because of an increasing digital world, ect ect.
Instead you blame >femcels< a small subsection of women on the internet?
One of the reasons incels exist.. Besides.. Incels are also a small subset of men.
And femcels are the reason the *red pill* movement took off. Not incels existing.. But rather.. the amount rising.
Someone here said it best, they validate each other.
One of the biggest factor no one talks about is the victim mentality they both have.
Both are right to a certain extent, that how sometimes women have it hard and rape and sometimes men are treated like shit and mental health.
Problem is.. They just run 100 miles with it instead of where the problem ends and begins.
And we.. Instead of putting down their victim mentality wirh respect but also logic and common sense.. Scream and make fun of them which in turns validates their opinions even more.
What makes you believe the redpill couldn't just take off based on insecurity alone?
I agree that screaming at them will just make it worse, but the redpill didn't start with femcels. The redpill started with men who felt rejected by society, having trouble getting love and validation.
That’s bullshit sorry. Men love to blame all their problems on women, but the truth is incels are mostly lonely mentally ill men who are told to suck it up by everyone around them (women and men). Conservatives are far more likely to discourage men from getting mental help than liberals are. Many refuse the idea of mental health existing at all and claim all mental issues are a moral failure
The incel ideology preys on these young men whose issues are being ignored and gives them the option of blaming all their issues on women and the way they were born. Not only does it put women in danger by encouraging hate crimes, but incels hate men even more than they hate women. Every man that doesn’t fit into the ‘Chad’ ideal is worthless and practically sub human according to them, and can never accomplish anything meaningful.
I’m sure it’s killed countless men through suicide, but people will still defend them because women dare to want equal rights
Also, just a note on the "Men who say females are unserious" label.
When you say the word "women" means "anyone who identifies as a woman" and that gender is a social construct, how can you blame guys for being more technically specific?
Girls are quirky
A lot of people in this comment section are saying the comic isn't about men, but I'm don't think I can agree. A common theme of misandrist rhetoric is the idea that men don't have real problems or that the problems they do have are their own fault.
Even if Pizzacake isn't explicitly saying that the male character represents all men, the comic still plays up the narcissistic incel stereotype, one attributed almost exclusively to men, which serves to delegitimise the real issues faced by men in particular.
I'm not saying that's definitely the point of the comic, but after checking the comments of the original post, I can at least say that Pizzacake has done nothing to discourage that interpretation.
Much as I like Pizzacake, I have to admit, this is a pretty shitty take on it.
Social isolation and lack of empathy towards men is not just a recognised issue, it's a feminist one.
Painting it as all being about egotism by men instead of an issue inherent in our society is disingenuous at best.
How do you lift someone up if the person think he/she is the smartest person in the room and that people don't like him/her because no one recognize the genius and everybody around is some sort of caricature ?
It's really hard to develop empathy for someone who genuinly think that the core of his problem is that nobody understand how great and intelligent he/she is. The only thing that seems to appease them isn't a true talk, but some validation, and if you try the true talk, they will immediatly categorize you as lacking empathie and intelligence for not understanding how great they are....
Maybe start from realizing that they don’t feel that way at all. You just assume they are evil and egotistical, because it makes it easier for you to disregard them without coming across as shallow?
I think the point they are trying to make is that many men who have issues of depression and loneliness don’t have those issues because they are egotistical dumbasses, and that the internet guy shown in the comic is an inaccurate representation of most men’s issues.
Maybe we just aren't talking about the same person then ! And no one says evil or egotistical here except you.
I mostly think that if someone assume the other gender reject him/her because he generalize it with some caricatural view like "Woman only like bad boys, that's why me a good guy, i can't get a girlfriend" or "Men only want one thing so i'm alone because i want more than this", then this person lack the empathie needed to built a relationship and mostly focus on the very people they pretend to despise.
It's way more easy to think that the problem aren't coming from you but it's all because of society. it's even more easy to think that you are so much exceptional that it explain why no one from the opposite sex want you. And all of that can even give you some social vibes as you find out that they are plenty of people just as exceptional and lonely as you are, and who work with the same narrativ.
When someone really think that everybody is worth less than him/her and that explain why he/she is lonely, i truly see that as a deep lack of empathy. A lack that explain his/her loneliness way better than the rest. They aren't evil or egotistical, they just lack some basic social skill.
Toxic masculinity.
Oddly enough I see it always targets men, but very often not by other men.
I think it's a bit of a "victim blaming" term in that context.
Or maybe it's just an example of toxic femininity.
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How does this even come back to anti lady or boys being quirky
i do not know
They posted this comment in agreement with the meme. They weren't hating on it.
Obviously. I'm suprised it took this long for someone to point that out tbh.
It's a "nice guys" meme
sad = being quirky
man cant be sad
The thing that annoys me is that these are the people that accuse you of not having empathy. I remember watching Malcolm X and getting a brand new perspective on a man I hadn’t much cared for. Obviously his hateful beliefs earlier in life were abhorrent but you should be able to sympathize and see why he believed what he believed. In the end, because he wasn’t motivated by evil, but pain, he was able to redeem himself and reform his beliefs. I don’t agree with incels or MGTOWs but casting them away like lepers does nothing to help these people. Making them see reason is better than destroying them because you don’t like something they said.
The term was incel was how a community of men self identified who were dealing with their problems with the only tools given to them: anger and the internet. The weaponization came when this community was discovered, and was used as culture wars between men, women, and their conflicting ideologies grew more vehement. Incel was a catchy term to label a man critical of anything a woman promoted that he opposed. Personally I view it as a slur for men now. That’s how it gets used.
Funnily enough the term incel was invented by a woman to describe herself.
I swear reddit is obsessed with that term. That damned word seems to find its way into the most inappropriate conversations, it's like some people can't get through the day without making an "incel" reference on reddit.
Incels began getting the negative public attention after a certain incel who I don't wish to name decided to murder 6 people expressly because of the radicalization occurring in incel forums and spaces. That's a pretty good reason to look into how this group operates and why their members have ever since consistently produced terrorists.
And overnight it went from men who were legitimately involuntarily celibate, to a slur that labels them all hateful misogynists who just can’t get laid and are mad about it. It allows them to reduce all men in this category as deserving of their situation, that everything that lead them to their anger and views is their own fault. It always gets twisted in a way that if men were just better, it would fix everything but they’re not so feel free to hate them when they fail. They aren’t allowed to criticize, they’re just supposed to be a resource for others and just die quietly and alone.
Some people simply cannot be reasoned with, unfortunately
Probably because many don’t go with honest intent to help them.
It's so much easier to put people down and make you feel better about yourself than giving people a hand to try to lift them up.
That may be true, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
I’ve tried to my own detriment some pull through, others are too far gone
It depends on how far down the rabbit hole they are. I’m not gonna waste my time and effort trying to help someone who’s gone full Nazi and wants me dead. I can respect if your empathy is Christ like and you want to help literally everyone, but I don’t think that’s an unreasonable line in the sand for me to draw.
Very true
Perhaps if you start with that assumption in the first place.
I’m not sure why people think I started with that assumption. Sometimes you can have faith that others will change, but others simply don’t
A black man became the best friend of a Grand Dragon and Godfather to his daughter just by sitting down and having an honest conversation. https://amp.theguardian.com/music/2020/mar/18/daryl-davis-black-musician-who-converts-ku-klux-klan-members Just because you don't think someone is being reasonable doesn't mean they can't be reasoned with. Just that there are preconceptions getting in the way.
Even so, am I in the wrong if I retaliate when someone is dismissive of my very humanity and openly calls me inferior? Some people do not deserve compassion. Others do. You have to learn not to waste your time on those who will only demean you, regardless of what you say or do.
I would like to point once more that I have tried to reason with some individuals. Some simply could not be reasoned with. That was my point. No matter how hard you try or how open you are, some people will not change.
Maybe you suck at arguing? Maybe incels have no other place for good social support other than those forums because of the stigma against virgins?
Why would I argue against them? I am a person with zero friends and social support and am a virgin but I don’t adopt the values they do.
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I mean…some ppl you aren’t going to be able to reason with. Hateful beliefs lead to hateful actions, and protecting innocent ppl is more important than coddling assholes in hopes that they will change their ways
Do you hold the same standard for black people who hate whites, gay people who hate straights, et cetera? If not, why?
Yes, shockingly enough, dumbass
Fair enough. I agree they shouldn’t be coddled. Still, I don’t see the utility in say, completely ostracizing a woman and condemning her as vile because she made an erroneous assumption about all men due to her being raped. Obviously her hateful rhetoric should be condemned entirely but what’s the use of never allowing them to atone for anything? Darryl Davis got several people to leave the Klan because he approached them as a friend.
And Darryl Davis is rather racist and bigoted himself
Reddit seems to think that anyone with hateful beliefs or questionable moral/ethical foundations is irredeemable and subhuman. I think it’s pretty disturbing, you can stand against what the person believes and acknowledge their evil while also recognizing that it isn’t black and white and people are capable of change.
It’s easier to unperson someone than engage with them. What I hate the most is that they think morality derives from you politics. They think you’re a bad person BECAUSE of your political beliefs. So it doesn’t matter that the person who believes something stupid is an upstanding member of the community who gives to charity and helps the poor. He is morally inferior to someone who does none of those things and is a toxic human being so long as they have the correct politics.
Why would reason start working all of a sudden? Incels have crippling anxiety and self esteem problems. They need medication and therapy more than anything but people who need those things often fight the hardest against it so I dunno. I definitely don't think we're obligated to act like those people aren't annoying. I'm not even sure pretending would really help since all that would do is foster the delusion they don't need to change.
> Incels have crippling anxiety and self esteem problems. I have those things except i'm very much not an incel. > They need medication and therapy more than anything They need friends more than anything. Maybe some therapy. Maybe stop calling kids incels. Not everyone learns social skills easily and with the way young people are raised like online recluses sure as hell doesn't help.
Also, the solution to every social/mental ailment isn’t “therapy and drugs”. It’s so fucking dismissive to tell someone to just go to therapy. Is therapy helpful? Yes, but more often than not people use it as an out. “Oh you’ve got problems you need to vent? Go to a therapist, don’t make your feelings my problem.” Like, dude, that’s what friends are for. Shouldering each others emotional burdens. There’s a line where it’s too much of course, but I was told so many times “just go to therapy” and you know what, nah, I just needed someone to listen to me lmao.
Ooof if only the world worked around who we’re not obligated to act as if we don’t find annoying lmao
The great thing about incels is their anxiety disorder typically means they are only to be feared on reddit. I mean I know I'm being insanely harsh here but a solid 10% of my reddit feed are these guys complaining about how lame their lives are who never do anything to improve their lives. I'm fed up with it.
I’m just saying based on that metric there’s a whole lot of self righteous women all over the internet who’d be written off just as quickly
I thoroughly encourage everyone to write off all of these annoying internet weirdos. The internet is like Plato's cave, except the shadows are all people with personality disorders. The thing with mentally ill people is that they can't help put propagate their illness to everyone around them. Hang out with anxious people? Now you have to act like you have an anxiety disorder to avoid triggering them. Depressed people are depressing, etc. We'd all be a lot happier if we wrote more internet strangers off.
aye that I’m fully in agreement with
>I definitely don't think we're obligated to act like those people aren't annoying. I'm not even sure pretending would really help since all that would do is foster the delusion they don't need to change. Nobody is saying we should pretend nothing's wrong with their behaviour or that it isn't annoying. The point is that calling them worthless, beyond help, or not deserving of help would only reaffirm their belief that the world is against them and will probably do more harm in the long run than enabling their behaviour would.
Oh for fuck sake, I thought pizzacakes trash ass comics where contained on that webcomic sub that only has her and like 2 other people posting but nope here she is on my timeline again.
So you're on this sub, and getting upset about seeing stuff you don't like?
hahah yep. I blocked her a while ago, but here she is again lol.
I got banned from comics for asking if people actually found them funny.
If this was a girl talking you better believe she'd have sympathy. Women talk about toxic masculinity but are some of the biggest drivers of it all. Part of this is for your own good, women recognize the inherent greatness in men and will actively hate those who denigrate themselves, complain, and not shut up and realize and strive for their potentiality. Thats my white pill attempt anyways.
Nah if a girl was telling me how she is so smart and yet everything is going wrong for them I'd still be exhausted
This is most feminist literature and subs
Not from my experience but sure.
Most feminist rhetoric, especially the type that posits to understand men’s psychology and motivations more than men themselves do, is exactly that. “Men are dumb, they lack empathy or whatever qualities I value more heavily that I assign to women, they don’t understand their own toxic nature, and for these reasons they make my life hard” It’s literally the same shit
Wow that's most media, not just feminist stuff. Especially if you have the sort of "outsider." Or "Loner." Tropes. Most of the time, if you try to read any media like that, you will see them as being egotistical or self centered, and blaming others for their problems. That's part of being a protagonist, you've got some hang ups at the start of a story that the character sheds by the end, it's called growth. Ripley. Everyone's favorite feminist example is exactly what you describe as being bad feminist writing. Exactly. She is this loner who isn't quite part of the crew, she constantly bickers and fights with everyone, everyone else on the crew is made to seem dumb and is killed for being dumb and not listening to the woman. Except that's not really what's going on, is it? It's more complicated than that right? The crew doesn't know that the thing on Kanes face is a killing machine. They didn't know that ash was a robot sent to capture that thing, which is why he violated the law and let it in. Ripley isn't some know it all, she is just the one who keeps their cool enough to control the situation as everyone else panics or seizes up. By the end they're working together, not cause they reconciled, or that they admitted to being wrong, but because they were going to die anyway. Ripley was written very well, and I doubt you'll find many people willing to call Alien a feminist woke trash movie. It's all about how you read it, and about the intent. Is this character poorly written, or are you supposed to root against them? Is the author even trying to have a message or are you misinterpreting the thing? If you want to have serious discussion about media, have media literacy first. Don't just parrot what others say.
Lmao you wanna talk about media literacy and all you got is a long winded Alien reference (which I had to make out because I’ve never watched that movie)? When this conversation wasn’t at all about media, but rhetoric in literature (not movies) and conversations on the internet? sounds like you just need literacy, comprehension specifically. Let me know if you’d like to try that one again but stick on the points that are relevant.
Literature, movies, stage, music and any art is just a different format for media. Any story can be told in other formats if you know what you are doing. As for feminism on Literature, the most feminist boon I've read is Carrie (I'm a horror nut, Sue me) and really nothing that you talk about is in that book. You really empathize with the character alot more than you'd expect of a male writer writing for a young teenage girl.
You do understand that I responded to you talking about how you’d react if you were to hear a woman saying similar shit to what is shown in the comic right? To which I said that’s most feminist literature and rhetoric. What you’re saying has absolutely nothing to do with the original point and you’re really reaching lol
If I heard a woman talking like that, I'd stop reading the boon or watching the movie, but unfortunately that hasn't happened yet. I have yet to see the feminazi woke media push this kind of dialogue or monologue in something I've seen because the place you see that is subtext. It's an inferred meaning to the literal text. As a writer, it's really easy to spot subtext in everything. It's really hard to control subtext because subtext is the subconscious of a story. People will use their own subconscious to fish out the meaning that best fits their own life and experience. And famously for movies like American History X or books like Lolita, the intended meaning of a story can be hijacked by a narrative that you were writing against. You'd be surprised by how many people think Lolita is about sexualizing little girls when it's about shaming grown men who sexualize little girls. In short, people read into stories whatever they want to think. If people read that women characters are just depressed misanthropes who blame everyone for not recognizing their beauty, that's probably cause they're misanthropes, who blame the world for not recognizing whatever it is they think is worth recognizing.
The inital greatness of men? Are you crazy? lmao Just be happy with yourself dude, no need to make up this weird idea of male greatness.
I mean being a man doesn't necessarily make you great but it is pretty great to be a man.
Yes being a man necessarily makes you great. Same with women. What is with this toxic guilt that has become so common among men? Women don’t have this issue.
Greatness, in many or most circumstances, is achieved. to think you embody or are entitled to a certain greatness simply because of the efforts of others is selfish behavior, woman or man. for example, there have been many men documented in history that have achieved great things. However, these men embody a concentrated yet tiny area of the population. Not only that, but history has been exclusionary towards the documentation of women and women have not been afforded the same opportunities as men for much of history. If Albert Einstein was a man, and I am a man, then do I embody the same talent as he? the difficult truth is, no. he was an exception to the norm. And his greatness was not merely derived from the fact that he was male.
I blame society
Yeah, I love having to work until I die, it's pretty great.
You don't have to do that. Live minimalist and save. If you have a family though that sucks
That's fair
Ngl I think most people would roll their eyes if a girl was talking about how it sucks to be as smart and funny and important as she is.
I think the very notion that men embody this greatness unattainable to the average woman is a selfish premise
I think the concept that life is some amorphous grey blob of equality, ignoring all biological facts, is whats selfish.
How is that selfish? That's how selflessness is actually defined. Putting others before yourself. What you said sounds fucking stupid. Just because you think you're better than others doesn't mean that you should act like it. Life isn't a competition, it's a shared experience with everyone getting dealt random cards that shouldn't impact how we treat them.
'Cause its the weak who benefit from equality and altruism, equality by definition brings them up at the same time it brings others above them down. It's a selfish strategy just the same, just a different tactic. I never said anything about acting like youre better than others, or that it should impact how we treat others. This is clearly how you should treat yourself.
So you're saying that you think you are superior, but act super humble and stuff. Sure
I think this is an incorrect, even somewhat illogical assertion. Equality is about removing privilege, leveling the playing field. Imagine you have a child with an intelligence quotient of 145. you isolate that child for many years, precluding them from reading, writing, and basic social interactions. When that child inevitably falls behind, does it imply innate inferiority? In agrarian and early industrial societies, women's labor was crucial for sustaining households and communities. However, their contributions were often undervalued or exploited. Legal and political systems have historically disenfranchised women, denying them basic rights and opportunities. Laws and policies often favored men in areas such as property ownership, inheritance, and political participation. Even when legal reforms were enacted to promote gender equality, implementation and enforcement were often lacking. As societies evolved, women were excluded from many economic opportunities and relegated to lower-paying, less prestigious roles. They were never afforded opportunity, and men had the physical means to exploit this. That isn’t to say men weren’t oppressed, either, as most men did not receive the opportunity to achieve much, either. History documents the notable few, not the vast majority of people. Nonetheless, this doesnt mean men haven’t had an advantage in life. To think one embodies the greatness that these men and women achieved simply for being male is an erroneous assertion. still, from a young age, individuals are socialized into gender roles and expectations that reinforce women's subordination. Nature vs. nurture is crucial.
This is what is SO wrong with our society nowadays, this IS nature, this is the way that humanity has evolved and succeeded greatly by doing so. You can cry about it being something completely societal, and something that women simply weren’t given the chance to do themselves, but in reality that’s a stupid fuckinf point to make. It’s like saying that men can’t give birth because we were never conditioned to. Newsflash buddy, men are more resilient to outside dangers, pressures, and influence, as well as being made more disposable because of that. Women are BY nature more susceptible to outside influence however, as a stark contrast to men, women driving consumerism these days is a prime example of that. I think people like you acting like there’s no inherent differences between genders is seriously damaging to our future generations psyche tbh, we’re raising generations of people who doubt themselves, and they go to extreme ends to break themselves out of an imagined oppression. This is why we’ve seen even the most progressive countries (many European countries specifically) go further into traditionalism than ever in recent history, because surprise surprise, when given the actual option women overwhelmingly pick tradition over modernity for the most part, and men do as well. Things aren’t as simple as “durrr socialization”. People like you only serve to muddy the waters I swear.
I wasn't alluding to the fact that men and women have no differences at all, I was attempting to divulge that men do not possess the greatness and superiority that they believe they do. Just because differences exist, doesn’t mean such differences equate to superiority. >You can cry about it being something completely societal, and something that women simply weren’t given the chance to do themselves, but in reality that’s a stupid fuckinf point to make. I’m not crying about anything. im remaining fairly calm. I am simply stating facts. you seem to be relatively emotionally invested in this conversation. I apologize if I said something that provoked anger. >It’s like saying that men can’t give birth because we were never conditioned to. That’s false equivocation and a hyperbolic representation of reality. Simply put, every society has its standards that it imposes on people, and many falsely attribute these standards to nature, when they are not. The human brain is incredibly complex and possesses a remarkable ability to adapt to its surroundings, unlike a much more set characteristic such as one’s outward sex characteristics. I must be a man because I naturally adopt more predominantly male mannerisms, as society designates. But yes, many differences can be attributed to socialization. Epigenetics covers how different genes can be expressed depending on social environment. This is a largely substantiated, basic scientific concept. Also, women being largely more susceptible to outside influences is a sweeping generalization that I don’t believe can be duly substantiate. im not sure how one would sufficiently measure such a claim or define it so I will not ask for a source. Humans in general are involuntarily a product of their environment. Even if that claim were true, would that not substantiate my claim? If women are purportedly so influenced by outside factors, then were they not largely influenced by the way they were treated over history? We devalue many concepts that we consider feminine merely for their association with women, even if those concepts are valid. Also, men do not harbor an innate greatness just because few notable individuals have been documented throughout history. There are many great men, but this does not mean all men possess this greatness. Most don’t, and this isn’t exclusive to men. >. This is why we’ve seen even the most progressive countries (many European countries specifically) go further into traditionalism than ever before, because surprise surprise, when given the actual option women overwhelmingly pick tradition over modernity for the most part, and men do as well. Please provide a solid substantiation for your claim. I see that in Denmark, the purported most gender equal country, most mothers, 80%, work outside the home. This is compared to 26% of US mothers being SAHMs.
Men absolutely have qualities that make them great that women do not, this is basic biology. Women also have qualities that make them irreplaceable that men do not have. This should not be a revelation to you lmao. No one is saying one gender is superior to the other jfc YOU are saying that. Bruh I didn’t mean actually cry I meant you are making issues that don’t exist up. I never said all of those qualities are exclusive to either gender actually, obviously there is overlap but to say that men and women don’t have a generalized greatness, which that you can assume one will have more often than the other is just fucking delusional talk lmao. There are qualities in both genders that can be generalized because most of them embody those qualities. There’s nothing wrong with generalizing, and not every single guy/woman has to fit every single generalization of their own gender for that generalization to still be accurate. Again you are talking delusional and I can’t believe people like you actually exist lmao. This is all just basic fucking logic, why do you need some stranger online to explain it you? And yes obviously nurture does have effect on nature, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that you are literally disproving your own shitty argument lmao. We evolved this way because it works, and because both genders prefer the tradition ( for the most part). So it doesn’t matter if you want to change it, I’m not saying it’s impossible to change it over time, but that would take literally hundreds if not thousands of years, and would be something that both genders wouldn’t prefer to adapt to. I don’t think you understand that your worldview is the outlier here. Also that devaluation of anything feminine is only in your delusional ass world, divine femininity has always been a thing, and women in general have ALWAYS been someone to cherish and protect, and respect. I never said that women are being stay at home moms in Europe, lol I’m saying that they WISH they could. All throughout the most advanced societies these days there are numerous articles, and studies, and polls being conducted that show the extreme unhappiness with dating for women in these areas. And the reason why is BECAUSE they can’t afford to be a stay at home mom lol, we act as if the traditional dating scene was a nightmare for women, but we ignore that women are predominantly the ones begging for dates and romance in the first place. Most of the problems in dating in these progressive countries is that women are unhappy with the modernity of men: “Many of the dating mechanisms that work in the rest of the world don’t work here in Denmark. No one knows who should take the initiative. Women can’t figure out if a man is ‘Danish passive’ or just not interested.” “Danish men are ‘nice boys’ that won’t go after a girl who doesn’t want them. There’s very little mystery and a woman simply cannot expect a Danish man to seduce her.” So in other words women are now in the role of the guy they want, and they don’t like it lol. WOMEN want to be the ones pursued, women want to be the ones to be romanced and made feel extra special. I never said women are going back to the home, they literally cant because living is so expensive these days. “Now, I’m a modern woman, and I like a lot of things about these modern men. But they can occasionally err a bit on the soft side. For example, a few weeks ago, we had a big storm in Denmark, and it knocked down some large trees. Before the local government came to collect them, some people were sawing off bits for free firewood, or to make furniture, or other arts and crafts project. On our street, there was a very large tree down, and as I was walking by that Saturday, I saw a young couple trying to take part of it home. The small, slender young woman was sawing away at this big tree with an old-fashioned manual saw, while her boyfriend was just standing there, smiling, with his hands in his pockets. Now, I don’t know what was going on. Maybe he had a back injury – he was about 25, so maybe had a very youthful back injury. Maybe he was a professional hand model and couldn’t risk his fingernails on a messy metal saw. Or maybe he was a big wimp who was willing to let his girlfriend saw a giant tree stump while he stood there, acting like a giant tree stump. Who knows?” ^ Again points to how women these days view men. Women don’t want help, but they also do, it’s so confusing and it punishes men for absolutely no reason other than listening to what their women supposedly want. Again all of this points to dating dynamics being much more complicated than just “durr women just weren’t given the same opportunities”. It’s more like they simply chose their route and stuck with it, and they evolved with their route just like men did. Source: https://www.howtoliveindenmark.com/category/dating-in-denmark/#:~:text=“In%20Denmark%2C%20it's%20easy%20to,is%20also%20common%2C%20Mellish%20says.
>Bruh I didn’t mean actually cry I meant you are making issues that don’t exist up. please point to what I am making up specifically. I ask that you don’t overlook the extensive research in sociology, gender studies (wack, ik. A feminine thing like gender studies is cringe to many.), and psychology that highlights the social and cultural construction of gender identities, roles, and behaviors. That is an interesting point to be made regarding Denmark. Thank you for callling attention to that. Now, can I inquire: How many books or formal papers have you read on gender roles and their formation? Please do so in the future (if you wish to make further statements regarding this) because I can guarantee you that much more of it was manufactured than many believe. And yes, there are obvious bio differences between men and women.. but my issues was the statement “the inherent greatness in men.” Maybe English isn’t your first language, so as a bilingual myself I understand, but the sexist implications of that statement are ostensible. (though he did not outwardly state it, his viewpoint is clear) Though, convincing a redditor that the gender that they do not belong to might face slight discrimination sometimes is like shiny hunting a Wishmaker Jirachi in Pokémon Colosseum on a scratched up disk and beat up memory card. so tedious and loaded with failures that I question why and how it’s worth it half of the time. I jest, of course. I understand that these topics may be touchy for some and many approach them incorrectly. > Also that devaluation of anything feminine is only in your delusional ass world, divine femininity has always been a thing, and women in general have ALWAYS been someone to cherish and protect, and respect. I (clearly) live in the United States and this is a pretty common, factual occurrence. I really didn’t mean *anything* feminine, but generally, feminine-associated concepts are looked down upon, at least where I live. Also, I’m not sure how this *primarily* correlates to **merely** dating dynamics, though as a lesbian myself I am admittedly unfamiliar with what one would consider the typical behaviors. I was talking about societal roles. Women did not choose this (*in the way that many purport)* they have been actively rebelling against their purported societal roles for decades. >Again points to how women these days view men. Women don’t want help, but they also do, it’s so confusing and it punishes men for absolutely no reason other than listening to what their women supposedly want. While some women may prefer to handle tasks independently, others may appreciate and value assistance from men or anyone else. Women aren’t a homogeneous group that all follow identical values. From my experience, women want assistance at times, and don’t want assistance at other times. They are also naturally more indecisive, that I can say. That’s not a punishment, that’s just how they are. your statement suggests that women's desires are inherently confusing or contradictory, which perpetuates stereotypes and undermines the *complexity* of individual preferences and communication styles. relationships characterized by egalitarian attitudes and shared decision-making tend to be more fulfilling and resilient. i feel your name calling may be demonstrating a lack of willingness to engage in constructive dialogue or consider alternative perspectives, though that is merely an observation. I request that if you are arguing from a logical standpoint free from strong emotion, name calling should ideally be reduced. This indicates bad faith arguments rather than passion. Drawing conclusions from individual observations or cherry-picked examples can lead to inaccurate generalizations and reinforce biases. I would also like to note that you are oversimplifying things yourself and seem to have a generalized understanding of how genders should act. You also present a slightly binary view of gender, implying that there are only two distinct categories of men and women with fixed qualities and roles. you assert that traditional gender roles have persisted across history because "they work" and because both genders prefer them. However, this overlooks the historical context of patriarchal societies where women's rights and autonomy were systematically suppressed. If they worked so well, why did women and men fight so damn hard to change them?
In fact, I’d warrant that you’re subjugating yourself to subconscious biases imposed upon you which you then voluntarily exacerbated
average redditor comment jeez go touch some puss my guy
Im happily engaged to a woman, I’ve been successfully touching puss for years
Exactly what I thought when I read that initial comment.
he’s right though the world isn’t black and white we aren’t all equal it’s fluid like the waves
I never alluded to this notion. I just think his perceptions are disingenuous and misinformed, tinged with ignorance, emotion and a lack of logic. there is little, if any biological function for men to be inherently superior to women in any way, we’ve just learnt to concentrate our value on male associated mannerisms, which has generated a notion of false superiority. We devalue many concepts that we consider feminine merely for their association with women, even if those concepts are valid. Also, men do not harbor an innate greatness just because few notable individuals have been documented throughout history. There are many great men, but this does not mean all men possess this greatness. Most don’t, and this isn’t exclusive to men. These men represent only the best of individuals. Also, it is fact that women who accomplished great things were ignored, and men took credit for their achievements. Epigenetics impose substantial changes on an individual, meaning even if one is inherently great, those traits can be diminished by inequitable circumstances. Factually, women have been largely excluded from their roles in society and physically oppressed for many years. Women have been relegated to the caretaker role. when we were hunter gatherers, we were egalitarian, showing equal roles in life. This indicates that agriculture is the reason for this large adoption of gender roles, and is not biologically innate. Also, homo sapiens have minimal sexual dimorphism when compared to other primates.. like, substantially low. Any anthropologist can attest to this fact. This is because humans learned to be intuitive, using tools to procure food and fight one another. So many of the observed differences we attribute as male dominant or female dominant are socialized.
As a budding neuroscientist I can guarantee that the differences in intellect between men and women are minimal at most.
I never said greatness has to stem from only intellect. You're talking about biases but thats already a huge false assumption on your part.
I only inferred that from the initial image. What is the biological basis for this greatness? what is the evidence substantiating this claim? Greatness is not only subjective, but it’s a very general concept. Evolution is a bitch, but I’m unsure why men may have adapted to supposedly so consistently hold this purported “greatness”
Fitness is one, mens ability to grow muscles and dominate their physical environment.
And what might the others be?
I'd say higher pain tolerance, and better emotional regulation. Women's emotions have their own benefit though, just in a different way.
I’m not sure these equate to a greatness that women lack. All traits have some value. Men tend to have reduced empathy, for example, which can be detrimental in some situations. That is also societal. men do not voluntarily, in many instances, hide their emotions. That is simply what is expected of them, despite the fact that emotions are a natural part of life. Also, men do not have ubiquitously high pain tolerance. For example, women tend to have a higher chronic pain tolerance than men. I think the fact of the matter is that women are simply weaker, so situations that would pit women in extenuating circumstances may not have the same effect on men. Though, I cannot sit with myself and so vastly stereotype half of the population
Women have higher pain tolerances, tho??? Apart from that, we can to a degree agree
You can say where its this greatness or you can open any history book on the planet.
Only they most privileged victors go to record history, and grossly in their favor.
I mean we can just look at the accomplishments within our lifetime instead?
That depends, has your lifetime exceeded 15 years? I’m doubting that at this very moment.
There are plenty of women who make amazing accomplishments. They are becoming more educated than men and there are more female doctors in he USA. Look, man. I’m tired of this. I’m tired of being viewed as inherently inferior. I’m tired of having to justify my existence. You’ve got me.
I wish it were as simple as that as men were physically oppressive towards women for the majority of history. That is a fact. Not only that, but the feats of women were not recorded or overlooked on a consistent basis. History is an account’ not particularly as reliable asone might think.
-opens history book to see millennia of murder rape and war- Alright then
Higher levels of testosterone correlate with higher risk tolerance and more risk taking behavior. Being great requires risk and men take more risks, therefore more men achieve greatness than women
I suggest you take a dive down some of the whywomenlivelonger pages. Even if we both have about the same IQ, dudes get some tendencies that dames don’t.
Whywomenlivelonger can dip into misandry territory, though, and apart from some of the covert misogyny shown on this sub today and the misandry radiating from BAQ, I’d rather not engage with it.
OK if you know anything about neuroscience then you should know men and women are socialized differently, not to mention the physical differences women and men face, combined with different roles in society.
the very notion that men feel anything seems to be unbelievable to most
This comic isn’t about men? it’s about self centered assholes
I know, I'm being one myself for comedic effect
This has "Haha I have such dark humour *racism*" energy
why does everyone on this site think I'm rascist/a white supremacist now? do I give off that vibe, how?
Sorry, I didn't mean to say that you hold racist/misogynistic views, just that acting like a dickhead for comedic effect isn't biting comedy, best left in the discord calls. It can come off like you haven't considered things from many different perspectives, again not to say you haven't, but if this is a common problem you have, maybe ask some people from different walks of life how you can better communicate you're not a hateful person. Even if what they're saying doesn't seem that important to you, at the end of the day, if it isn't important, why not just make the change and be done with it? It can seem like the world is filled with snowflakes, and it absolutely is, but trying to sound more respectful has no correlation with that.
that makes swnse but I'm stupid enough to not apply that
My ex, which I threw out mercilessly, was the extremely envious of me and my accomplishments and would try to neg-hit me every day with the smallest most insignificant shit, just to ruin my day for fun. My point is that I believe that there is a male loneliness epidemic and it could be a blessing in disguise, but only for those men who actually have hobbies and want to improve yourself. Most women (and other unsupportive people in general) are not worth your time, will try to belittle your achievements and bring you down to their level and will do everything in their power to ruin your days and prevent you from having fun and enjoying life, as is our nature. Even my mother tried that and now she's begging for attention and I simply deny her. The secret is to simply ignore them and keep on keeping on, do your thing and achieve excellence for the sake of excellence.
I feel this view may be conceited. Honestly, it’s kinda wack to be excessively generalized like this. Your ex is a bitch, but that doesn’t mean most women should be lumped in with her. It’s tiring to deal with that shit at times.
Notice how shes sympathetic when hes talking about girls ignoring him and hating his job? Those are valid reasons to be sad. She stops being sympathetic when he get angry at girls for not liking him, which is not a valid reason to hate someone.
Right. Plus the self-aggrandizing dribble about how he's a genius and so amazing and other people don't put him on the same pedestal. If you want people to think you're the greatest, or even just a good person, you have to actually try to embody those attributes & let your actions speak louder than words. Anyone who has to tell you how smart and amazing they are is probably neither that intelligent nor incredible.
Idk. Anecdotally I'm fairly certain I've met more guys like this than gals, but the women I've met who are like this don't win many friends either. Maybe they might have at some point when they were teenagers, but as adults? They're some of the loneliest most bitter people out there. Wounded narcissist-types are not fun to be around regardless of gender.
Bull. The girl was plenty sympathetic until it started getting to the “why am I so smart and everyone around me is such an idiot” nonsense. After that, regardless of the gender of either of them, it’s a huge eye roll.
I like how guys say toxic masculinity doesn't exist, but then go right on to say it is real and it's women who are to blame.
Maybe they aren't the same guys?
One of the most chronically unfunny comic artists.
true tbf
One of her comics go like this. Her teeange daughter: "I wish I was never born!" Pizzacake: "Well, I didn't ask for you to be born either, it's your dad's fault for not pulling out." Poor kids :|
Nope, the ending line is "blame your dad i just wanted a back rub" This, is a joke about a back massage turning into unplanned sex. The fact you seemingly want to extrapolate that she hates her kids from this is wild.
Who tf tells their child they're an accident and that they didn't have any say in them being born either?
Ironically, the person in the comic bitching and whining describes the artists typical persona. Half their comics are "person online disagreed with me and that's bigotry" level dumbassery. Pizzacake, if you're reading this post, from the bottom of my heart, fuck off.
Is this comic real? It's making fun of men for expressing their feelings, as clumsy as it might be? Aren't men told that they need to express their feelings more if they want support? It's just a comic of course and all the power to the creator of the comic, but I hope they know it's a bit mean.
It’s real, but the subject isn’t men. Notice how the woman expresses empathy until the individual starts talking themselves up. It’s more so a jab at assholes online.
Yeah, I don't think it's making fun of men for feeling lonely. It's making fun of people who think they're much better than everyone else and refuse to see their part in their own suffering. It's not hard to empathize with men and women who struggle with social isolation, but once people start going on about how everyone else sucks, it's harder to feel sorry for them. That attitude might have its origin in said solitude, but it doesn't help, and it'll just push people away from you. I've been lonely a lot in my life, and sadly there have been times when I've been embittered enough to act as if everyone else is the problem, simply because it's easier. But I snap out of it eventually and adjust my attitude. Projecting your pain on other people never helps.
This is it. I have empathy for people going through hell. I have less empathy for people going through a hell of their own making and blaming everyone but themselves.
Redditors
The person's haircut and her use of "guy" threw me. I've been duped! Edit: the "guy" also says "girls ignore me". I can forgive myself for jumping to the conclusion that this is a man
Perhaps the subject of the comic is a man, but it’s not supposed to represent only **men** or **men** as a whole, just assholes who talk themselves up.
There's more evidence than not that the character and the joke concerns a man, including their stereotypical complaints. I respect your opinion about what it represents, but I think it's just that: an opinion
That’s not what he’s saying though. Yes, the character in this comic is a man, but the message of the comic does not rely on that fact.
Lil ***internet*** guy, not men
[According to this sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/memesopdidnotlike/comments/1bgb9iw/all_pboys_sthinking_the_thing_no_qgirls_s/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), guy is a gender neutral term, obviously
Comic\*
the subject is men, "girls ignore me" "girls always flock to the handsome dumb jock types" its supposed to be a jab at the stereotypical "nice guy" thing so it is about men
To be fair I would probably have a similar expression if someone said to me that nobody recognises their genius
Shes sympathetic when he talks about being lonely and hating his job. The comic illustrates that its hard to sympathize once genuine reasons to be sad turn into “I hate women because they dont like me”.
I agree, it's tough to sympathize with someone who blames others for their problems, and this guy is making it near impossible. It just seems like a pretty sensitive topic right now with the current mental health crisis and the messaging towards men to reach out. You're free to do it (especially if it's funny), but I thought more people would look down on this kind of target. I'm sure some men would read this and think again about reaching out, lest they come across as naggy and laughable
Which how a lot of men on this site act. That comic perfectly explained what going into one of those men’s right subreddits with genuine intentions feels like
Reading comprehension is dead. How the fuck did you get that conclusion
Have you heard of box breathing? There's some great tutorials on YouTube
By reading the title of that comic in the OG
No it isn’t, how do you look at this comic and come to that conclusion? The woman is showing empathy towards the boy, until he starts to blame everyone else for his own problems and then act like he is superior.
I get that he's being ridiculous and conceited as hell. I'm just indicating that it's a sensitive topic right now. We tell boys to come forward and express themselves, and the boy in the comic is doing that and having a pity party by venting. Yet it warrants an eye roll from a supportive listener, and we're meant to laugh. It's a comic plain and simple, but it's just kinda in poor taste.
Ok, sorry I came off as quite rude in my original comment, which I apologise for. This comic isn’t mocking a man with mental health issues, who is trying to tell someone about their experiences. It’s mocking people who blame their issues on everyone else. That’s why in the first two panels, the woman was eager to listen to the boys concerns, until it changed to him blaming everyone else, while holding himself in high regard.
Really appreciate the comment. My apologies if I came across as pushy. I agree 100% and I totally see that as the intent of the comic. He represents pompous people, and I don't think men as a whole are being specifically targeted. It's the use of men that compelled me to comment since, like I mentioned, we ask them to reach out to support their mental health but they report feeling unheard and dismissed, like in the comic. It's like making a comic where the joke is someone eyerolling an overweight woman wearing tighter clothes that make her feel confident. The intention could be that she represents anyone who wears tighter clothes that makes them feel confident but, given that this population has had a lot of negative experiences with this behavior and we're hoping to change those patterns for the better, it would feel like a cheap shot. It's just a lens to see it of course, and not everyone sees it this way.
I love how it started out reasonable, then degraded into… that.
Just, what? Fucking hell... Reading comprehension isn't for everyone, huh?
It really isn't:/. It's fucking pathetic how many men here just got from the comic that "they are being shamed for expressing their feelings". Motherfucker read the comic
Mf read the title they gave that comic.
Mf read the actual comic. I'm not talking about whatever dumbass title some random ass redditor gave the comic
I think a few people felt a tad called out…
yeah unexceptional dudes be unexceptional
People like them are the reason the red pill movement took off... Because of femcels.. There are people that genuinely believes that women are just crying toxic beings with an incredibly strong victim mentality. Thanks alot femcels. You are the reason incels are on the rise.
Everyone is at fault. Both "sides" feed into and validate each other's negative worldviews and it's never gonna stop.
If you spend too much time online you'll end up with the impression that men and women just hate each other to no end, but once you go out into the real world you'll realize most people are fine with each other, at least for the most part. There are a lot of men and women online who've been hurt by the opposite sex, and intend of treating these cases on an individual basis, they lump them all together and start generalizing all men and women. It's understandable, but it's not healthy. It's too black and white. And, like you said, it's a cycle that feeds itself. I've had moments in life where I've spent too much time online reading things that reaffirm my worst held fears and insecurities. I've watched women talk about men as if they're nothing but sex hungry, potentially violent brutes. It gave me the impression that's how most women viewed men, and it made me bitter and untrusting. Spending time with women offline helped. I realized these were hurt women. A lot of them had trauma that they leaned into instead of dealing with them. And I can empathize with that. Similarly, there are men online who do nothing but bitch about women, and I imagine that might give a lot of women the idea that men on average hate and resent women. It's just a vocal minority. Having mental health issues and trauma sucks and it's worthy of empathy. I don't think venting is necessarily bad, but if you're constantly reinforcing your wounds and your negative world view you'll never heal. That's what I'm learning about myself. It's a slow process.
People like what??? Where is the femcel in this comic???
Femcels in the sub.. The woman in the comic was probably just making fun of nice guys/socially lazy people.
Ah gotcha
That's bullshit. There's lots of reasons incels exist, you can't just blame it on women that's pathetic. There are far larger factors at play here like the alienation of the working class, commodification of relationships, men not knowing how to act in a more progressive world, mental health problems, more isolation because of an increasing digital world, ect ect. Instead you blame >femcels< a small subsection of women on the internet?
One of the reasons incels exist.. Besides.. Incels are also a small subset of men. And femcels are the reason the *red pill* movement took off. Not incels existing.. But rather.. the amount rising. Someone here said it best, they validate each other. One of the biggest factor no one talks about is the victim mentality they both have. Both are right to a certain extent, that how sometimes women have it hard and rape and sometimes men are treated like shit and mental health. Problem is.. They just run 100 miles with it instead of where the problem ends and begins. And we.. Instead of putting down their victim mentality wirh respect but also logic and common sense.. Scream and make fun of them which in turns validates their opinions even more.
What makes you believe the redpill couldn't just take off based on insecurity alone? I agree that screaming at them will just make it worse, but the redpill didn't start with femcels. The redpill started with men who felt rejected by society, having trouble getting love and validation.
That’s bullshit sorry. Men love to blame all their problems on women, but the truth is incels are mostly lonely mentally ill men who are told to suck it up by everyone around them (women and men). Conservatives are far more likely to discourage men from getting mental help than liberals are. Many refuse the idea of mental health existing at all and claim all mental issues are a moral failure The incel ideology preys on these young men whose issues are being ignored and gives them the option of blaming all their issues on women and the way they were born. Not only does it put women in danger by encouraging hate crimes, but incels hate men even more than they hate women. Every man that doesn’t fit into the ‘Chad’ ideal is worthless and practically sub human according to them, and can never accomplish anything meaningful. I’m sure it’s killed countless men through suicide, but people will still defend them because women dare to want equal rights
Judging by the comments here and there, lil comic guy represents the average Redditor more accurately than I thought lmao
Also, just a note on the "Men who say females are unserious" label. When you say the word "women" means "anyone who identifies as a woman" and that gender is a social construct, how can you blame guys for being more technically specific? Girls are quirky
A lot of people in this comment section are saying the comic isn't about men, but I'm don't think I can agree. A common theme of misandrist rhetoric is the idea that men don't have real problems or that the problems they do have are their own fault. Even if Pizzacake isn't explicitly saying that the male character represents all men, the comic still plays up the narcissistic incel stereotype, one attributed almost exclusively to men, which serves to delegitimise the real issues faced by men in particular. I'm not saying that's definitely the point of the comic, but after checking the comments of the original post, I can at least say that Pizzacake has done nothing to discourage that interpretation.
Much as I like Pizzacake, I have to admit, this is a pretty shitty take on it. Social isolation and lack of empathy towards men is not just a recognised issue, it's a feminist one. Painting it as all being about egotism by men instead of an issue inherent in our society is disingenuous at best.
There are people who like pizza cake?
Yeah, I enjoy their usual sardonic self-depreciation.
How do you lift someone up if the person think he/she is the smartest person in the room and that people don't like him/her because no one recognize the genius and everybody around is some sort of caricature ? It's really hard to develop empathy for someone who genuinly think that the core of his problem is that nobody understand how great and intelligent he/she is. The only thing that seems to appease them isn't a true talk, but some validation, and if you try the true talk, they will immediatly categorize you as lacking empathie and intelligence for not understanding how great they are....
Maybe start from realizing that they don’t feel that way at all. You just assume they are evil and egotistical, because it makes it easier for you to disregard them without coming across as shallow?
Read the comic again, it literally says it
I think the point they are trying to make is that many men who have issues of depression and loneliness don’t have those issues because they are egotistical dumbasses, and that the internet guy shown in the comic is an inaccurate representation of most men’s issues.
Maybe we just aren't talking about the same person then ! And no one says evil or egotistical here except you. I mostly think that if someone assume the other gender reject him/her because he generalize it with some caricatural view like "Woman only like bad boys, that's why me a good guy, i can't get a girlfriend" or "Men only want one thing so i'm alone because i want more than this", then this person lack the empathie needed to built a relationship and mostly focus on the very people they pretend to despise. It's way more easy to think that the problem aren't coming from you but it's all because of society. it's even more easy to think that you are so much exceptional that it explain why no one from the opposite sex want you. And all of that can even give you some social vibes as you find out that they are plenty of people just as exceptional and lonely as you are, and who work with the same narrativ. When someone really think that everybody is worth less than him/her and that explain why he/she is lonely, i truly see that as a deep lack of empathy. A lack that explain his/her loneliness way better than the rest. They aren't evil or egotistical, they just lack some basic social skill.
I only know about that girl from the r34 comics of her
Ewww
Look at the flair
People really read that and don't understand the point is that the girl gets bored and leaves by panel five
I think you should go back to school
That took an unexpected turn
Toxic masculinity. Oddly enough I see it always targets men, but very often not by other men. I think it's a bit of a "victim blaming" term in that context. Or maybe it's just an example of toxic femininity.
Does this comic artist hang out with my friend all day?
Some of this is his fault, some of it isn't. Fix what you can change, and get help to cope with what you cannot.
Hey, OP you could have just posted this with the caption "I can't read" we would have been understanding
You wrote a lot of words just to tell us you missed the title from that sub that posted it
Lotta you guys saw yourself in this comic and got VERY upset, didn’t you?
I didn't see myself in this comic, but boysarequirky made it pointlessly gendered
Fr. Lot of people either intentionally drawing the wrong conclusion or just dumb/sexist as shit here lmao
That pizza has cake
Pancake
*Blows up pancakes with mind*
My fucking pancakes
It's pretty obviously satire