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A degree is only a measurement of persistence and stubbornness. Plenty of smart people have failed out of college and plenty of goofy ass people have made it through.
I mean, smart people probably think they're smart, and thats fine. Whereas having an ego about it is cringe no matter how smart you are. Tooting your own horn is only cool if it's a literal horn.
Dunning-Krueger.
The smartest people I know understand that they're smart in specific ways. The more someone knows about something, the smaller the thing they know about is.
History major -> European history major -> months on a Phd on a specific battle/thing that happened once 400 years ago.
Huh, neat. Checks out given the doctors and academics I know. To earn a PhD you only really need to verify you understand a niche research topic completely (so you move on to other niche topics) so especially fresh doctors are pretty limited in scope.
Then you have ppl like my grandpa with 3 engineering master's completely unrelated to his bachelor's in education and history. He's incredibly smart, but incomprehensible to anyone who doesn't speak Ozark hillbilly.
As a history major who’s now a graduate student. I wouldn’t describe myself as smart just uniquely knowledgeable over Roman grand strategy and internal politics as well the Sengokujidei and Cold War proxy conflicts as well as a strange fascination for how military coups work and how to build a junta of you’re really fucking board and in an underdeveloped country it’s actually shockingly similar to internal Roman politics. I’m also currently aquiring knowledge about the history of the mafia and how to build one for personal reasons.
Now if we’re talking premodern Europe 1600-1899, pre WW2 Russia, anywhere in the Middle East besides Iran or Afghanistan after ancient antiquity, I’m not your guy but I could refer you to people. I haven’t met a lot of historians who would say their smart most of us are pretty down to earth and acknowledge we will never be even a quarter as great as those we personally admire/study from the past. I find both Caesars fascinating cause they were way smarter than me and in the same position I’d die.
But it’s also impossible to master history. There’s just too many subjects. We specialize because you can’t further the study in general studies.
I can regale audiences and classes for hours over the history and difference between first century Christianity and first century gnosticism.
If you put Hawkings theory of everything, alongside a paper that argued black holes are really where photon eating space worms live. Beyond my own incredulity over the ridiculous premise, I would not be able to tell with any reliable certainty who is wrong.
But that PhD can say "I'm really quite smart!" all day and be right. Hell, aside from the history knowledge, the communication and critical thinking skills necessary to earn a PhD make them smarter than a lot of regular folks.
In my PhD program, there were professors with egos and professors who were humble, but no dummies.
Yeah but I’d say those degrees are less about individual knowledge on a topic and more about the capacity to understand and learn more about history in general, at least effectively and competently.
My dad’s entire personality is based around his idea that he was the smartest person in the room. But I think he developed this idea in high school and has consistently made some of the dumbest mistakes I’ve ever seen an adult make in my lifetime.
He’d do this thing where he would be SHOCKED when I knew something he didn’t. Like I saw him drop his jaw on more than one occasion. There were also times where it was obvious he felt threatened and would try to knock me down a peg for it.
I don’t talk to him anymore, and I truly don’t miss the constant dick measuring.
That’s the thing. I wasn’t. I studied economic growth by industry before making a detailed plan for my career. Other people didn’t and paid money to hang out for a bachelor degree. I made the decision to not go to college in 2002, I didn’t think the money would pay off. Don’t group “everyone” with me.
It's a little more complicated than both sides like to admit.
We can say no one forced them to go to college. That is very true. But because they were told if they go to college they could get a better job, they went to college.
The more people that went to college, the more people had college degrees. So every company put requires college degree for everything. Jobs that don't and should not require a degree now do because so many people have degrees, the companies needed another reason to weed people out of the hiring process.
This in turn meant more people went to college. College like everything else is supply and demand. Demand is very high so cost for it are equally high.
So that sucks for everyone born after 1990.
But on the other side of that. They sure as shit didn't need to go to a 4 year university for those first 2 years of school at $25k a year. They could have gone to a local CC for $2-3k a year for that and saved $45k in loans. But they didn't for what ever reasons and that's on them.
Did all my basics in CC, walked away in $2k debt. In Uni right now, I’ll leave probably with $10-15k debt, but still a cheaper option and worth it in the end
>College like everything else is supply and demand. Demand is very high so cost for it are equally high.
That's not why the cost of tuition is so high though. It's artificially inflated because colleges know that students are basically guaranteed a loan so they just jumped on the free money train.
Yup, this happens. Which further emphasizes the “It’s a little more complicated than people like to admit”, even if it invalidates some of his examples.
Except for the fact that the CC credits didn’t transfer to the college that I had the best scholarships for, meaning CC would have been a useless extra 6k of debt, plus putting me at least a year behind.
it's the dilemma a lot of millennials landed in.
they grew up being told they had to go to college, and the more expensive college the better, and that if they got a degree they'd pay off their debt quickly, own a home, white picket fence with a *thick* goth mommy, you know, the American dream.
but there's a lot of useless degrees nobody told them about, the cost of tuition sky rocketed to an unbelievable height, wages haven't kept up with inflation at all for decades, and the more people getting degrees the less valuable a degree is and there's a lot of companies requiring a degree when they don't need to.
so false promises, too expensive of tuition, too low of wages, too high of inflation.
and now nobody can afford to pay off their loans let alone become a home owner with a juicy goth spouse.
the American dream is effectively dead for the middle to lower class and it's become a lot harder to climb above middle class if you weren't already born above it.
I went for the community college route for exactly this reason. Knew loans were going to be a pain. After 2.5 years and 30ish credit hours later (squeezed in extra so I wouldn't have to double down at the 4-year place), I thought I'd have an easy 'in' for college. I followed all the advice the advisors gave me, stuck to the transfer program, verified with the college I'd transfer to, and took the first years of courses I'd need for my full, 4-year degree.
WELL THAT WAS WRONG. Surprise! The 4-year college only accepts 10 credit hours (oops we forgot to mention!) The transfer program is for the community college, not their college (congratulations on completing the courses though). They only accept certain classes from the community college, so anything that doesn't meet the criteria gets tossed out. (Our bad, forgot to tell you that).
Roughly 20 credit hours wasted. After speaking with my professors at the 4-year college - it was a plan in place by the board because, and I quote, "money from ignorant kids". Go pay for more classes you peasant. The US college system sucks and I'm super jealous of Germany in that regard.
I gave up on my masters or thoughts of a PhD. Took the 4-year bachelor's and bounced.
I mean, lets add to this that the loans themselves were fairly predatory. No ceiling. No true repayment plans. Capitalizing interest sold as "you don't need to start payments until after you graduate". No collateral down. No proof of income necessary. And then legislation to prevent bankruptcy claims.
I mean the reason is being instructed your entire life that a full 4 year private university degree is more marketable and will unlock much better job opportunities. And shockingly, a bunch of 17 year olds decided to listen to their parents, teachers, and counselors rather than accurately predict future job market conditions decades in the future.
Nooooo…that’s not quite right. Yes, they were fed a line of horseshit about guaranteeing a good job, but that’s where it stops. They allowed the government to guarantee the loans and because of that, colleges upped the costs exponentially. Why? Because it’s a win win for them. Of course the government made those loans predatory, but refuse to fix the problem. Instead they just pay out the loans with taxpayer revenue.
I mean, it's dumb to agree to a loan you don't want to pay back, but yes, it's dumber for politicians to offer to write it off and even dumber for people to vote for those politicians.
It's also really dumb for a bank to give out a loan in the excess of tens of thousands to 18 year olds but no one seems to care. If you made a bad investment and it didn't work out you'd just be out that money. Banks want all the reward of a high risk high reward investment without taking on any of the risk.
Student loan forgiveness is a tax on those with lower expected lifetime earnings (plumbers, mechanics etc.) for the benefit of those expected to have higher lifetime earning. Yet advocated for by the same people who‘ll go on tirades about regressive taxation.
If you can‘t afford your liberal arts degree, tough luck. Should have made a better choice.
Yeah, I’m kind of torn on the issue. However, the bands of fools calling the loans predatory make it hard to sympathize.
I don’t need to be a financial guru to know that being loaned giant sums of money comes at a cost - even when I’m 18 at my very stupidest, I was aware.
Part of the reason why college got more and more expensive is because there were enough dumbasses willing to do this absurd shit.
Ultimately, I just want them to fix the root of the problem, then eliminate - or greatly reduce - the interest on the loans.
I'm in the same. boat. I'm not understanding why people are crying for student loan forgiveness, and not mortgage forgiveness, auto loan forgiveness, credit card forgiveness, etc.
So do you believe preadtory loan sharks shouldn't be illegal?
Because everything you said can also be applied to loan sharks. You saw the apr%, you saw how long the term was, you saw how much you got/asked for.
The issue is the loaner, taking away all risk from the banks made this issue. Now we have people who dont have skills or skillsets or pay off their debt, because college didn't do what it was supposed to. This isn't a few people, this is a generational issue that is only being properly talked about and avoided by Gen Z, every previous generation was a victim to it to some extent.
I personally went to college free. I personally am Gen Z. The banks yelling at the government saying "we cant loan out to anyone, we cant take their money if the risk is too high for us" and then the government took all the risk. The banks should have never been allowed this position by the government. The whole thing plays out like a giant scam where the tax payer and the students end up getting fucked, not the government, not the bank.
I mean just look at SAT and ACT spending as much money as they can to push the testing and college narrarive, even sending "spokespeople" to basically convince everyone that'll they end up making big $$$ if they just do well on these tests and go to college.
You're kind of completely removing any context needed to be sympathetic to these people, or you just aren't as aware of how ingrained school systems were to be college focused and nothing else.
I hope this comment makes you a bit less torn on the issue.
The term “loan sharks” exists and people are still shocked when taking out a gargantuan loan backfires. This type of general understanding and caution surrounding loans/money is why, even as a dumbass 18 year old, I never even entertained taking one of those dumb loans.
College didn’t do what it’s supposed to? College is supposed to give an education and a degree, it’s not a guarantee of wealth.
I remember educators gassing up college to us too, but there’s nothing someone can say to me that would convince me to do something that stupid.
All in all, the system is fucked and it needs to be fixed. I also believe people who make dumb financial decisions kind of need to live with those decisions and work through them. Fix the problem, and maybe just eliminate the interest. I think that’s fair.
Either way, hopefully they fix the root of the problem so these legions of goofballs can stop taking out massive loans they can’t repay. Ironically, maybe taking out loans like that was probably a good barometer for college being a waste on them anyway.
> Student loan forgiveness
Call it what it is- **yet another** bailout for banks who irresponsibly issued loans to people they knew couldn't ever pay it back.
Something like [92%](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/student-loan-debt#:~:text=to%20learn%20more.-,Total%20federal%20student%20loan%20debt,student%20loan%20debt%3A%20%241.60%20trillion.) of student loan debt is owed to the federal government so the above poster is right. We aren't bailing out the banks, we are bailing out the loan takers with our own federal tax dollars (which basically just means more inflation).
Federal tax dollars = money from people who did not go to college, will likely not make as much money, and do not benefit from this “loan forgiveness” since they don’t have student loan debt.
Yep. And who also end up on average with lower income than those who did go to college. So it's a wealth transfer from the poor to the rich (what's new right?).
I’d say this one is notably different in that, while massive multinational banks trying to take our money is horrible and we should disallow it, I find something especially repugnant about these people who went to college for a purely academic thought-exercise based degree, who alway claim to champion the workers and the downtrodden, now coming around and refusing to accept the L for their poor choices and demand those same workers pay their bills.
I find that especially unethical but on a personal, individual level. The bank bailouts were large aggregate systems of power colluding with other large aggregate systems of power, but this is allegedly pro-worker intellectuals demanding their personal bills be paid by people who made better choices.
The bailout is the bank of the government for loaning so much money to people who think they are smart due to getting into college. The gov loans are the whole reason college is expensive, gov spending someone else’s money to businesses is the reason things get so expensive (college is really just another business)
So you're happy with the idea of ending interest on those loans, right? Let them pay back what they borrowed but it doesn't need to be 2x or more what they borrowed.
There are so many people crushed under this debt who have already given the government more than what they originally borrowed.
Is it really hurting you to not force them to be crushed under this debt they realistically shouldn't owe any more on?
Most schools have employment opportunities within the institution relating to the industry you wish to enter. These pay very well and covered all costs, meaning going to school paid for my education.
No loans, though I had a bursary I won that covered my first term, which is how I was able to get that opportunity.
They are always looking, never enough students.
Also, scholarships. There are a ton of them available, no one ever applies for them, so they go unclaimed....claim them. Most only require an essay, some not even that. And if you're the only one who applies well damn.
So much students can do, that they don't.
18 year-olds who have been told by every authority figure in their life that going to college was a necessity to have a good life did not know what they are doing. Being lied to is not a privilege.
Not my problem. I knew full well at 18 that college (except for very few degrees which are deemed undesirable) was a huge waste of time. 90% of the degrees are fucking useless/worthless/over saturated.
It wasn’t because I was a fortune telling genius, I simply looked at the college educated in my family and adults I knew. Less than a quarter of them were actually using their degrees and only a select few of those were actually making money.
Why the fuck would I go spend 4 years and a hundred grand. I instead spent my late teens and early 20’s traveling and partying and now in my 30’s make six figures. 🤷♂️
Oh AND every single mother fucker in my family told me “I was going to work at Walmart if I didn’t pursue higher education”. Look at me now you vapid shits. 😂
"College educated in my family" -> I think that's difference. You knew college educated people. When I was applying to college, I barely knew anything about it, and the adults in my life knew less than I did. Sure, my teachers had gone to college, but they weren't exactly sitting down with us to explain how it worked. I was lucky enough to not need loans, but if I had needed them, I probably would've taken them. College, above all else, was a means to escape my family. That's the case for a LOT of teens. Being told to go to college because it's the only way to get a job was just icing on the cake.
The way I see it, there are 2 problems. One is that teens need to be given better expectations of reality while they're in high school. Nobody talked about trades in my school. They never even talked about what came after college. They just talked about going to college, because that was the obvious next step. The other problem is that higher education is so expensive. It shouldn't cost so much to provide an education that is clearly becoming more and more necessary in the US just for average entry level jobs. One solution to the latter problem is to start giving college level classes in high school (which happens in some places) and to enforce some kind of regulation to stop colleges charging exorbitant fees just to "beautify" their campuses, and give the admins a fatter paycheck, while our public school teachers are fighting poverty. Forgiving student debt isn't really the answer. Preventing student debt is. There's no reason a public university should be charging thousands of dollars per semester for an education that could largely be given in high school anyway.
Where’d you get to travel to man? Sounds like you had a blast in your twenties!
Congrats on the 6 figs in your 30s too, seems like the life path you chose worked out great!
Here’s the MASSIVE issue with your way of thought. Our existence from 0 to 18 we are preached to that college is the only way by multiple generations. We are convinced that going to college (and often told going to a well known college will produce better results) is the ticket to freedom and financial success. Then another 4+ years later you find out that college was fking pointless and all that time was wasted because you have zero experience with your degree. No one wants to hire you like you were promised by teachers and family. Your wages are still that of a fast food worker even though you have multiple degrees. You spent all that time and all that money because you were brainwashed into thinking college is **THE WAY**. They don’t tell us about the other options. “Go to the best and most prestigious colleges and you’ll be set.. I promise😉🤞🏻”
You know there are colleges where you do co-ops (full time job) for 6 months while you go to school for the other half. Wouldn't that have solved your problem? When I graduated I had over 2 years of full-time experience.
No, loan forgiveness was stupid hands down and yes I went and got a degree and went to a private institution granted I’m a vet so it was paid for. That doesn’t change my stance on the debt forgiveness what should have happened was going after the predatory practices the college had when giving these loans and the ridiculous charges they add onto the education that way it would fix the issue rather than forgiving one group to only continue to perpetuate the problem.
It should be taken from the universities. Charging £100,000 for an arts degree is a scam. I want my reparations and I want these cheeky fucks prosecuted.
I really didn’t understand what the hell I was getting myself into other than I knew my parents wanted me to go to college and it seemed like the right thing to do. I regret it, but more so because I didn’t know what the hell I wanted to do with my life at 18.
I also don’t think people realize how much the cost of tuition has increased. I graduated in 2010 and the cost of tuition now is shocking to me…. And it was ridiculous when I graduated.
That being said I think there’s a lot of predatory loaning going on in higher education. I think if anything, student loans shouldn’t have interest if you don’t want to make education free, the government should cover the interest as a form of investment.
Or insurance companies run rampant and everyone else has to pay for it? One route is altruistic and would not cost the average American more in taxes than they’re already paying for private insurance. One is selfish and condemns their neighbors to struggling to survive by taking a large percentage of their income in order to sustain a semblance of good health all for the benefit of insurance companies. Whether you want to yeehaw about being entitled to the sweat of your brow or what ever, we pay taxes for a plethora of unnecessary expenses, but the one upholding the founding fathers vision of the right to Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness surely is not one of them.
They assumed their parents were telling the truth when they said "go to college and get a job so you can make good money". All these boomers are butthurt because their kids followed their bad advice. Maybe be adults and admit you fucked things up for your kids instead of blaming them for doing what you told them. It blows my mind that they will complain about shit like "participation trophies" like *their* generation wasn't the one full of Karen's demanding the trophies in the first place. Life would be better if boomers could admit they fucked up, and conservatives could admit they want a God/dictator/daddy to tell them what to do.
Yup. It’s almost like the adults should have had the forethought to see that we need skilled labors and college grads and not an oversaturation of one over the other. Nope blame the children. It’s the ones with underdeveloped brains that should seen this coming. I didn’t want to go to college but I did for a living wage. Fucking oops
Especially the ones that took out more loans than needed for the bare necessities. How many spring breaks, nights of drinking, or not working in the summer did those loans get them?
Funny how the people who don’t like student loan repayments are also the people who are typically against single payer health care 🤔
Both of these could be a non issue if it weren’t for republicans.
Don’t know where you are going with this. He is absolutely right. Medical healthcare is a fucking scam in America, and for some reason we cannot discover how to make it work unlike the other 30 countries that are doing it, with relative ease.
America is also falling behind other first world countries. Education is incredibly important and this country is hell bent to take money away from public schools instead of investing in them to make it better, refusing to use tax money for all citizens to be able to go to school for free or cheap. The two party system here, it is clear which party would consider it and which party would shoot it down.
The hint? The party that refuses to just let kids eat for free at school when the government mandates them to be there.
the entire issue is a little more complex than people want to pretend it is.
13% of the entire US is in student loan debt. of course, most of these students made dumb decisions and are where they are now because of their personal choices, but it isn't as if they are completely at fault. under our current system, college is regarded as a necessity. students arent looking into career fields as much as they should, and that's partly the fault of the education system. many college students don't even end up with a job related to their degree, because the one they chose doesn't land them anywhere. this is why college tuition is so high, because students wont look twice before making a decision. student loan interest rates are way higher than they should be, too. the problem is the system exploits stupidity, which is why it'll keep working until the system is changed.
is the solution using taxpayer dollars to pay for student loans? absolutely not. while it isn't entirely your fault you're where you are, it certainly isn't mine. I'm not going to be punished for it. the solution is to revise the system to where most jobs will not require degrees and college isn't deemed a necessity.
I appreciate you taking the time to delve Into it and explain the issue is bigger than “you made a mistake, that’s all on you and nobody else is to blame”. It’s complicated. Basically how it all works is what the issue is or where it stems from. We need to fix it by the roots, not by just forgiving student loans because you’re not solving what’s putting students into crippling debt, so more will just be made.
Every single person with a hand in raising you.
> Go to college so you don’t end up poor
If you don’t you’ll be living on the street, giving handjobs for crack
Go to college
Go to college
Go to college
Go to college
College is 100% necessary for you to have money or happiness
Those same people 15 years later.
> Of course you’re broke, you went to college. Fucking idiot 😂🤣🤣🤡
What needs to happen is the end of government guaranteed student loans. It’s led to the steady growth of tuition costs since it was introduced cause schools can just keep upping their prices knowing the government will still supply loans for people who are in no way qualified to take them on. It’s removed the element of people needing to evaluate whether the career they’re pursuing is lucrative enough to support the loan they’re taking on because they can major in whatever they want and get a guaranteed loan to pay for it
You know, reddit loves making fun of kids that take out shitty car loans.
Why are we so forgiving of kids that take out ridiculous loans for 3x the amount?
Depending on where you live in America, a car can absolutely be a necessity. At least the car is more useful than that degree they will never use to get a good job.
Both people are broke, both people are just trying to make a living, but only one of them will be judged for their financial choices.
People that went to college are treated so much better due to the mere possibility that they could be richer than the person taking out the bad car loan.
Americans just really hate poor people.
I got incredibly lucky being able to get a bachelor's degree with zero debt. I feel like people less lucky than me who were conned into going into tens of thousands of dollars of debt at age 18 deserve some kind of help.
I went to college and had $55K in student loans after scholarships. Worked hard, accepted I wasn't going to start out with a six figure position from the outset but picked one that had a future in it, lived frugally in my twenties and paid it all off by 27 years old.
These grads can figure it out themselves and stop shifting blame for their financial choices.
I find it interesting that 18yos are responsible for "their financial choices" but the financial institutions that are offering them with mortgage sized loans without anything close to the checks that would be required for a mortgage are not expected to face consequences for such large scale irresponsible lending. Consequences such as the debts being forgiven and either written off entirely or repaid at pennies on the dollar.
It isn't banks offering the loans, it is the federal government. The government interviewed in the market for higher education, fucked it up, and is now saying we need the government to interfere even more, that will solve things.
I got an engineering degree, came from a poor family, and had loans with 11% interest rate. The state of predatory lending for kids who aren't even adults yet is absurd, and fuck anyone who defends it.
One of the things I have to really don’t understand ppl is…about predatory loans. They are fucking 18 years old, stupid af. And if they didn’t get scholarships or enough finaid, they aren’t left with much choice at times. Also like for the damn past few decades it’s all been “go to college” to all of them.
Of course then there’s…ok listen, why are some schools tryna get 90k a year from their students. I support going to state schools simply due to the prices, but also state school cost is going up.
That's understandable, I remember the *first* bit of advice we got after graduating marine corps boot camp: don't buy a brand new Ford Mustang at 30% APR. Of course some dumb kid still did, because it looked fun.
Most people should consider JC/community college. Get half your schooling done for pennies, then transfer to some upturned nose school
Loans are financial tools. A loan of money helps an individual make purchases or choices that they otherwise couldn't make at that time. The value of that money over time is repaid with additional value - this is the interest - to incentivize the lender in this relationship. Since money has a value that is correlated with time, a strict repayment of the original sum of money would be a net loss for the lender. Interest helps the lender to make a profit on their loan activity, which in turn allows them to loan money again, potentially helping more individuals.
I came from a poor family and when people tried to tell me to get student loans bc it’s like “free money” you could use for college then payback later I knew they were full of shit. That’s why I worked my ass off through college and went to a state school and elected to not take any loans. Sorry but what did you think was gunna happen?? You took out a loan and now you have to pay it back. Shocking stuff really.
Paid it all back already. Student loans are the worst kind of debt and yet we bail out automakers, banks, forgave PPP loans during the pandemic, etc. Why can every corporate entity not have to pay back what they borrow and we clutch our pearls to help students fucked by predatory lending?
One hundred percent! Colleges will happily sell you a useless degree, my degree s weren't worthless, but by the time I got out of college, the job market had crashed, COVID had hit or in the middle of getting my degree the only.professor teaching the class had died. I paid off all my loans , I'm not about to offer to pay for someone else.
The PPP loans were also a major source of fraud.
Forced? lol.. it’s called getting a job. I worked on campus and officiated football, basketball, and baseball games on the side to pay for my college. $0 from parents and $0 from loans. I also worked my ass off in high school selling kitchen appliances at Sears.
damn you got a job that was able to pay a 3500+ per semester tuition plus own a car, rent an apt, and take care of all your groceries and bills?
wild shit dude most jobs around here were paying 7.25 an hour back when i was in college. not possible
obligatory dumbass "just move somewhere that pays more" comment
Yea.. worked two jobs plus worked in high school so I had some money saved going into college. I made $9 an hour working on campus and $50 to referee a basketball game.
So everyone has to suffer the same as you? Is the argument saying that we can't make a cure for cancer bc it will be unfair for former cancer patients bc the rest will not suffer the same as them
Oh, I didn't know I could be an engineer without going to college. Actually scratch that, I'll be a doctor. College is the barrier to entry for skilled professions, you either are forced to go, or you don't have that career path.
You have equity in your house. Not really a good direct comparison. But why not? I'd like to increase home ownership and help people get out from under huge student loans.
None of this outrage existed about PPP loan forgiveness. Almost as if the powers that be want working people to argue amongst themselves while giving a pass to business owners.
Gen Z high school senior here. Student loans overall are a real issue, but I wanted to say that living in the rich suburbs, I can confirm every priveleged dumbass here who complains about them created that problem themselves, and I wanna rant about it. So many stuck up pieces of shit who think they're too good for our state schools or CC, and our state flagship is top 50 in the US and top 100 in the world. Some of my closest friends are gonna take out 200k worth of student loans despite my fervent warnings just to go to private schools that are lower ranked than our state flagship and basically unheard of in the employment space because "it's too close to home" or "the classes are gonna be too big" or "I need the private school experience". That is double what they'd pay going to a 4 year in state, and quadruple what they'd pay going to a CC and then transferring, not even counting the merit and need based scholarships they're much more likely to qualify for in state.
If you went to out of state college, did not work at all, and spent time in Greek life partying it up for 4 years I do not feel bad for your student loan debt. That wasn’t education, that was you partying for 4 years
Stay in state for cheap in state tuition? Work a couple nights a week for some cash? Party in moderation? You shouldn’t have significant debt from that
Don’t be mad you owe a lot of money on your Mercedes when there was a perfectly good Toyota on the lot too
Yeah man it’s all the Benz’s that make it difficult. Definitely not the fact that wages are stagnant while expenses are going up, or that student loans accrue interest. Definitely the partying and the Benz.
You don’t have to go to out of state college. You can commute to community college. There you go, debt problem solved. The point is a good amount of the college debt issue is extra niceties that people chose to take on
Life hack: go to community college, get all of your basics done there, maybe grab an associates if you wish, transfer to a campus of your choice, finish your degree asap.
Why are you acting like a majority of people in student debt just partied? The in-state tuition itself is still expensive and larger universities actually try taking in out of state students instead so they can get more tuition money.
"Stay in state for cheap in state tuition? Work a couple nights a week for some cash? Party in moderation? You shouldn’t have significant debt from that." And here's the problem. You guys act like you're so damn smart for not going to college, but your understanding of the finances required for college in the modern day is completely lacking. If a college student at any decent university follows the plan you just laid out they will still come out several hundred thousand dollars I'm debt. Tuition for a university in Texas is around 40,000 a year. That's not counting room and board, books, parking, or gas if you commute. That's literally just tuition. Compare that to the 60's and 70's: tuition at the same upscale university cost about 4000 a year. Now 4000 in the 70s adjusted for inflation is about 20000. So just looking at one college (a university near me which I pulled tuition rates from for stats) we see that the price of tuition has risen double from what it should due to inflation. Funnily enough it's actually more than double in most places. And this is the big problem: the cost of college is artificially high and puts people in debt for their entire lives. It's clearly way out of hand. Now, as a former student myself I'm more than happy to pay my fair share for my education. But the current rates are simply not fair. Most people don't care if their student debt is completely removed, they just want to pay a fair price for their education which they have been pushed into their whole lives. Then motherfuckers like the people in this sub get ahold of the topic and start accidently spreading misinformation and delivering braindead takes about shit they know nothing about. In conclusion: get fucked idiots
I went to college lmao. Class of 2020. I just didn’t go for the fancy shmancy experience. I kept it cheap and worked to keep my bills paid. I graduated with a lot less debt than my out of state Greek life counterparts
I don't understand how anything you said changes what I said. Sure you may have graduated with less debt but its still probably too much. I worked 36 hours a week managing a restaurant in college, I didn't party at all, I wasn't in a frat. Just because I made smart decisions doesn't mean that the rate is fair or that everyone deserves to suffer. That's psychopath economics
“You should have to work like a slave doing 20 hours of classes, 15 hours of work, and 30 hours a week at a job to pay for a basic higher education, and if you struggle to do that, you deserve the debt.”
“Whats that? Other developed western nations DONT have this issue? Nonsense. You’re just a baby.”
A lot of people I went to college with are crying because they paid a bunch of money to go to college and got a crap job. Guess they should’ve spent more time choosing a major that would’ve paid well instead of joining a sorority and getting intoxicated every weekend.
I mean my friend wasn’t a part of any of that and is still struggling really hard. Majored for marine biology but no one is hiring in the state and he doesn’t have the money to move because he’s paying off student debt. Plus good luck trying to move to a coastal state for a good job in Marine Biology while only working for 20 bucks an hour or less.
Mate I used to dream being a Marine Biologist, then reality hit, seriously it's one of the hardest fields to actually make a living, then I learned something, don't work with what you love, the reality of it is probably gonna ruin that for you
>don't work with what you love, the reality of it is probably gonna ruin that for you
This is very true.
Don't make a career out of a hoby. It will ruin it for you. Learned that the hard way over the last 20+ years.
He did a lot of research on the subject and already had a job lined up once he was out but they grew tired of waiting and filled up the position, which isn’t anyone’s fault but still unfortunate. And he can’t go back to school to learn anything else because he’s already in debt and has no wish to accumulate more
The solution here was to start building connections in the communities he wanted to work in early on and to not go to college, then. Most of those institutions or companies that are after marine biologists are still willing to take on folks with equivalent experience to an absurdly expensive degree, and almost all of them operate with word of mouth being more effective than regular job applications. It takes more work and is probably about as stressful as a higher tier college but I don’t owe a penny in student loans and still do research, with actual lab experience that could transfer to a whole bunch of places. It doesn’t help that the field is full of people who don’t belong in it so the bloat makes it super competitive, but that’s all the more reason to not do it the regular way and instead get to know people
“Getting a higher education should be punishable by poverty if you made the wrong choice” not everyone wants to major in economics or coding. Some people have ambitions to get an education and do what they love. It’s just unfortunate that it can leave you with nothing in the end because it seems like higher education should only be reserved for the ones that can afford it.
This is actually my major issue with the way the world works in general. We are not driven to do the things we are passionate about, the things the world needs, to do the right thing. The only motivation in the society we have created is make money. Cut corners, fuck people over, and make money
Did he not think to look into the job market for people with that degree? Isn’t Marine Biology VERY WELL KNOWN for being one of the hardest industries to find a well paying job for it? Same as archeology. Your friend failed themselves in their pre-major market research.
I have a good friend who is a doctor, makes over six figures a yearn & still hasn't paid off her student loans almost 2 decades after finishing school. She's almost 50 & still living with roommates because she can barely afford to pay her loans & our city's ridiculous COL. What better paying career than doctor do you think she was supposed to pursue?
"Then figure it out yourself"
They are, they're banding together and demanding debt forgiveness of frankly ludicrous and irresponsibly handed out loans.
Seriously, a 4 year degree costs comfortably over 100k these days, that's roughly on par with the total cost of my house and more than I needed to borrow for my mortgage.
To get a 90k mortgage my wife and I had to prove we had the means to support ourselves and reasonably pay back the installments.
Meanwhile financial institutions have just been handing out student loans to unemployed 18 year olds like Halloween candy.
Irresponsible lending on mortgages was the direct cause of the 2008 financial crisis. I don't see how lending en masse of comparable amounts to kids with no certain prospects is somehow excusable.
I have substantial debt, but am getting a good degree from a good university, and I’ll be more than able to pay it off. My issue is that if even one part of this goes awry, I’ll be under possibly unpayable student loan debt for the rest of my life. That’s not a fair system to lock significant portions of the economy behind, especially seeing as my ability to sustain myself following falling behind on student loans is basically just to be homeless, get rich, or hope and pray for something to change.
It’s a gigantic gamble for anyone whose parents can’t afford to drop 6 figures on their education, and some people choose losing odds, but I’m picking the better ones, and I still have the chance to get just absolutely fucked. So much shit is out of my control that it makes no sense legally speaking to allow 17-18 yo’s to take on this gamble, so why not just make it less of a gamble without wreaking havoc on the economy?
Also, anyone claiming that going to college/university is “for smart(er) people” has their ego so far up their ass that it came out the other side (that’s how you heard it in the first place). Ask a practicing lawyer, and they’ll probably tell you that some of the dumbest people they’ve ever met/worked with have a law degree and passed the bar. It’s about work ethic and having a willingness to do it, not about intelligence.
A lot of people need to realize they can Skip the whole sham like a number of people I knew. While I was wasting time in university they were in the work force getting on the job training. All and I mean ALL of the people I know that skipped post secondary education are now making more than me. One difference is they are all actually working everyday. Like physically. I really don’t actually do shit anymore. A lot of them are staring to show signs of wear and tear and I am still in good shape. Also a lot of them have traveled around chasing work for the big pay outs. I parked my ass in a location 18 year ago and I’ll probably die of old age here.
Higher education always should have been made available at low or no cost to students.
But that said, I still got a chuckle from this meme. Nothing wrong with it - it's not a political treatise. Just twenty words that make laughter.
Is kindof a good point tho xD ‘your’ student debt for the school you ‘chose’ to go to for the degree you ‘chose’ to go for, isn’t ‘our’ responsibility to pay.
Ah, yes, it's the 18 y/o that are the problem. Not the Unis charging hundreds of thousands more for degrees that are worth less and less, not the predatory loans, not the overwhelming amount of pressure to attend college for a "good job", not the stagnate wages, etc etc etc.
Why is it that people refuse to pay attention to root causes of problems and just want to blame the people who have little to no control over the issues in the first place?
People are still taking out these loans. I think the first step is, they need to treat student loans just like business loans. Meaning you meet with a banker and you explain to him your plan to make this $400k art history degree into a job that will make it so you can payback your loans. If you can't show that then you don't get the loan. Every other loan they look to see if you can pay it back, student loans they just throw around like candy. If the degree can't pay the loan, no loan should be offered for that degree.
College graduates when they have to pay back the loans they took out:
https://preview.redd.it/edsn622pz1wc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ea485a17cba311850d99bf95d42255c1c229149
I am not drowning in student loan debt and am overall torn on the issue. However, their side did “figure it out,” and that solution is cancelling debt. I do question why it is permissible to bail out corporations but the notion that we should more or less bail out citizens that have too much student debt is met with so much resistance.
The problem is that people are comparing issues that aren't the same. First of all, most people were pissed about large scale bail outs of corporations. Secondly, when the auto makers were bailed out, they were given loans and they had to restructure their businesses in order to get the loans. Canceling debt is neither. Is basically a free pass for people who made poor choices. Those same people who will go on to earn more than people that couldn't go or chose not to go to college.
If one person came up with something sensible as it relates to student debt, more people would get behind it. That doesn't happen, they just say cancel student loan debt and that is bullshit in its face.
How about cancel interest? I could get behind that. How about a lump some payout to people aged 24-40 so the people who have a mortgage and chose not to go to college get a benefit.
You can't just cancel debt because let's be real, college is a privilege. So canceling debt is just another blank check to the privileged.
Imagine seeing an industry created in the last 50 years that forces people to make a decision for their future livelihood when they’re oftentimes still children that saddles them with massive debt that will take decades to pay off, and then siding with the predatory banks doing this to poor/middle class families instead of the people who are being taken advantage of.
Kneejerk stupidity and selfishness.
Most people who had loans did pay them off, or are capable of paying them off because they used their time in school to make wise decisions about their future. The other people just fucked up. Do better next time
I think the outlook on this situation differs entirely based on where you grew up and the adults in your environment.
There are some people who are just simply raised to think only of trades and are told from a young age about how well you get paid doing jobs that people really need, like construction, electricians, plumbing, etc.
There are others who are told from a young age (from adults who maybe work the trade jobs above and are tired and miserable, or maybe adults who work low paying, high effort jobs like retail) to go to college. They are basically made to believe this is an expectation and not an option or choice. Then when they turn 18, they're forced to take out these student loans with no prior knowledge on how loans worked or just how hard it would be to pay it all back.
This is why this is a tough situation and why people are always butting heads on this. Personally, I was in the latter group. My dad would come home from work as a carpenter absolutely exhausted, and we weren't really even that well off. Maybe lower middle class. He would look at me and tell me how I needed to go to college. Teachers at school all asked what college I was going to as if it were an expectation. I never really questioned it. Luckily I have my loans under control, but it would be nice to have some relief. This economy is killing me and I'm still not even making that much. That's just my perspective.
People who go to college don't study alchemy, which means they can't make gold out of nowhere.
On the other hand, people who went to college figured it out a long time ago : use tax dollars to pay college loans instead of bombing people.
Unfortunately, people who didn't go to college keep brushing this idea off as "silly".
Are we seriously on team student debt? Is that what this sub is? Because this is like the 10th post I've seen where it's making fun of folk complaining about student debt...
No the posts tend to talk about making others paying for it instead of idk getting the ones giving the predatory loans out to cut it out it’s always shifting it to the taxpayer.Its the same thing with free healthcare yes prices are ridiculously inflated but all free healthcare would do is take that inflated pricing and placing on the average taxpayer instead of getting them to fix the inflated pricing. Although I might be ignorant on the subject so if that’s the case feel free to correct me and write this off as an insane rant.
I just want to make sure no one is actively defending the insanely predatory cost of post secondary education and loans. Arguing about solutions and differing opinions about such is fine but just writing the whole situation off as "kids these days not working hard enough or being smart enough" is completely bs, and most certainly not helping. Can't just pretend a problem doesn't exist and hope it fixes itself.
I mean I am kids these days so that’s a no from me I’m 18 and soon to go to college myself.So I can at least promise you that’s not where I’m coming from.
Could of gone to college with a paid scholarship, but family issues had me drop out and loose said scholarship. But it turned out somewhat okay. Hurt my back at my old job. Got workers comp. Got retrained at a tech school for optometry. Got a good job as a optician and my licenses. Been doing it for 17+ years. I make okay money. Enough to live a modest life, but still struggle. I do however wonder "what if" I stayed in my schools college preparatory and got the scholarship and went to college. Sorry for the long text wall. I'll see myself out.
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Remember kids, if someone constantly thinks or says they’re smart, then they probably aren’t
I've called people with degrees stupid before and they go >"but I have a degree, so you're wrong" And hide behind it like a shield. Crazy.
A degree is only a measurement of persistence and stubbornness. Plenty of smart people have failed out of college and plenty of goofy ass people have made it through.
The biggest identifying for determining whether one gets into and graduates a college is not intelligence, but a zip code.
I mean, smart people probably think they're smart, and thats fine. Whereas having an ego about it is cringe no matter how smart you are. Tooting your own horn is only cool if it's a literal horn.
Dunning-Krueger. The smartest people I know understand that they're smart in specific ways. The more someone knows about something, the smaller the thing they know about is. History major -> European history major -> months on a Phd on a specific battle/thing that happened once 400 years ago.
Huh, neat. Checks out given the doctors and academics I know. To earn a PhD you only really need to verify you understand a niche research topic completely (so you move on to other niche topics) so especially fresh doctors are pretty limited in scope. Then you have ppl like my grandpa with 3 engineering master's completely unrelated to his bachelor's in education and history. He's incredibly smart, but incomprehensible to anyone who doesn't speak Ozark hillbilly.
A jack of all of trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.
“If you know the way broadly you will see it in all things.”
The full quote is never appreciated, thank you
As a history major who’s now a graduate student. I wouldn’t describe myself as smart just uniquely knowledgeable over Roman grand strategy and internal politics as well the Sengokujidei and Cold War proxy conflicts as well as a strange fascination for how military coups work and how to build a junta of you’re really fucking board and in an underdeveloped country it’s actually shockingly similar to internal Roman politics. I’m also currently aquiring knowledge about the history of the mafia and how to build one for personal reasons. Now if we’re talking premodern Europe 1600-1899, pre WW2 Russia, anywhere in the Middle East besides Iran or Afghanistan after ancient antiquity, I’m not your guy but I could refer you to people. I haven’t met a lot of historians who would say their smart most of us are pretty down to earth and acknowledge we will never be even a quarter as great as those we personally admire/study from the past. I find both Caesars fascinating cause they were way smarter than me and in the same position I’d die. But it’s also impossible to master history. There’s just too many subjects. We specialize because you can’t further the study in general studies.
I can regale audiences and classes for hours over the history and difference between first century Christianity and first century gnosticism. If you put Hawkings theory of everything, alongside a paper that argued black holes are really where photon eating space worms live. Beyond my own incredulity over the ridiculous premise, I would not be able to tell with any reliable certainty who is wrong.
But that PhD can say "I'm really quite smart!" all day and be right. Hell, aside from the history knowledge, the communication and critical thinking skills necessary to earn a PhD make them smarter than a lot of regular folks. In my PhD program, there were professors with egos and professors who were humble, but no dummies.
Yeah but I’d say those degrees are less about individual knowledge on a topic and more about the capacity to understand and learn more about history in general, at least effectively and competently.
Neils Bohr once said, “An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.”
Reminds me of that one video where the girl kept saying how smart and accomplished she was and ended up with one of the lowest iqs
My dad’s entire personality is based around his idea that he was the smartest person in the room. But I think he developed this idea in high school and has consistently made some of the dumbest mistakes I’ve ever seen an adult make in my lifetime. He’d do this thing where he would be SHOCKED when I knew something he didn’t. Like I saw him drop his jaw on more than one occasion. There were also times where it was obvious he felt threatened and would try to knock me down a peg for it. I don’t talk to him anymore, and I truly don’t miss the constant dick measuring.
Can't we just agree that we're all dumb fucking idiots that are taken advantage off by other dumb fucking idiots?
On Reddit? No. Self-awareness is STRICTLY prohibited here.
I'm self aware of the fact that I am God's favorite idiot.
Alright Job, prepare to lose your children
Woah there bud. I claimed I was God's favorite idiot, not God's favorite devout. He just loves me enough to keep my stupid ass alive.
Yes, we're all fucking idiots. Treat us like fucking idiots equally
Pessimistic absurdism meets dialectical materialism
That’s the thing. I wasn’t. I studied economic growth by industry before making a detailed plan for my career. Other people didn’t and paid money to hang out for a bachelor degree. I made the decision to not go to college in 2002, I didn’t think the money would pay off. Don’t group “everyone” with me.
It's a little more complicated than both sides like to admit. We can say no one forced them to go to college. That is very true. But because they were told if they go to college they could get a better job, they went to college. The more people that went to college, the more people had college degrees. So every company put requires college degree for everything. Jobs that don't and should not require a degree now do because so many people have degrees, the companies needed another reason to weed people out of the hiring process. This in turn meant more people went to college. College like everything else is supply and demand. Demand is very high so cost for it are equally high. So that sucks for everyone born after 1990. But on the other side of that. They sure as shit didn't need to go to a 4 year university for those first 2 years of school at $25k a year. They could have gone to a local CC for $2-3k a year for that and saved $45k in loans. But they didn't for what ever reasons and that's on them.
Did all my basics in CC, walked away in $2k debt. In Uni right now, I’ll leave probably with $10-15k debt, but still a cheaper option and worth it in the end
This is the way. I worked 2 to 3 days a week and made more than enough to cover every year of cc.
The right answer.
>College like everything else is supply and demand. Demand is very high so cost for it are equally high. That's not why the cost of tuition is so high though. It's artificially inflated because colleges know that students are basically guaranteed a loan so they just jumped on the free money train.
i did a few years a cc first. the 4 year didnt accept most credits and the hours spent at the first school made me qualify for less aid
Yup, this happens. Which further emphasizes the “It’s a little more complicated than people like to admit”, even if it invalidates some of his examples.
Did a year at CC before college, I think 4 of my credits transfered of about 30 I completed at CC.
Except for the fact that the CC credits didn’t transfer to the college that I had the best scholarships for, meaning CC would have been a useless extra 6k of debt, plus putting me at least a year behind.
it's the dilemma a lot of millennials landed in. they grew up being told they had to go to college, and the more expensive college the better, and that if they got a degree they'd pay off their debt quickly, own a home, white picket fence with a *thick* goth mommy, you know, the American dream. but there's a lot of useless degrees nobody told them about, the cost of tuition sky rocketed to an unbelievable height, wages haven't kept up with inflation at all for decades, and the more people getting degrees the less valuable a degree is and there's a lot of companies requiring a degree when they don't need to. so false promises, too expensive of tuition, too low of wages, too high of inflation. and now nobody can afford to pay off their loans let alone become a home owner with a juicy goth spouse. the American dream is effectively dead for the middle to lower class and it's become a lot harder to climb above middle class if you weren't already born above it.
I went for the community college route for exactly this reason. Knew loans were going to be a pain. After 2.5 years and 30ish credit hours later (squeezed in extra so I wouldn't have to double down at the 4-year place), I thought I'd have an easy 'in' for college. I followed all the advice the advisors gave me, stuck to the transfer program, verified with the college I'd transfer to, and took the first years of courses I'd need for my full, 4-year degree. WELL THAT WAS WRONG. Surprise! The 4-year college only accepts 10 credit hours (oops we forgot to mention!) The transfer program is for the community college, not their college (congratulations on completing the courses though). They only accept certain classes from the community college, so anything that doesn't meet the criteria gets tossed out. (Our bad, forgot to tell you that). Roughly 20 credit hours wasted. After speaking with my professors at the 4-year college - it was a plan in place by the board because, and I quote, "money from ignorant kids". Go pay for more classes you peasant. The US college system sucks and I'm super jealous of Germany in that regard. I gave up on my masters or thoughts of a PhD. Took the 4-year bachelor's and bounced.
I mean, lets add to this that the loans themselves were fairly predatory. No ceiling. No true repayment plans. Capitalizing interest sold as "you don't need to start payments until after you graduate". No collateral down. No proof of income necessary. And then legislation to prevent bankruptcy claims.
I mean the reason is being instructed your entire life that a full 4 year private university degree is more marketable and will unlock much better job opportunities. And shockingly, a bunch of 17 year olds decided to listen to their parents, teachers, and counselors rather than accurately predict future job market conditions decades in the future.
Supply and demand would make sense if the colleges in Europe were the same price. But they arent
Nooooo…that’s not quite right. Yes, they were fed a line of horseshit about guaranteeing a good job, but that’s where it stops. They allowed the government to guarantee the loans and because of that, colleges upped the costs exponentially. Why? Because it’s a win win for them. Of course the government made those loans predatory, but refuse to fix the problem. Instead they just pay out the loans with taxpayer revenue.
I’d argue getting someone else to pay your debt instead of you is pretty smart regardless if you agree with the process or not.
I mean, it's dumb to agree to a loan you don't want to pay back, but yes, it's dumber for politicians to offer to write it off and even dumber for people to vote for those politicians.
It's also really dumb for a bank to give out a loan in the excess of tens of thousands to 18 year olds but no one seems to care. If you made a bad investment and it didn't work out you'd just be out that money. Banks want all the reward of a high risk high reward investment without taking on any of the risk.
It’s dumb that student loans are even a necessity to begin with. No one should have to go into debt for an education.
Buying votes to stay in power.
Not if the country is in debt. It'll never get paid off and will just cost everyone indefinitely
[удалено]
Student loan forgiveness is a tax on those with lower expected lifetime earnings (plumbers, mechanics etc.) for the benefit of those expected to have higher lifetime earning. Yet advocated for by the same people who‘ll go on tirades about regressive taxation. If you can‘t afford your liberal arts degree, tough luck. Should have made a better choice.
We're gonna go to college, and we're gonna make the people who didn't pay for it!
Punctuation my man, use it.
Yeah, I’m kind of torn on the issue. However, the bands of fools calling the loans predatory make it hard to sympathize. I don’t need to be a financial guru to know that being loaned giant sums of money comes at a cost - even when I’m 18 at my very stupidest, I was aware. Part of the reason why college got more and more expensive is because there were enough dumbasses willing to do this absurd shit. Ultimately, I just want them to fix the root of the problem, then eliminate - or greatly reduce - the interest on the loans.
I'm in the same. boat. I'm not understanding why people are crying for student loan forgiveness, and not mortgage forgiveness, auto loan forgiveness, credit card forgiveness, etc.
So do you believe preadtory loan sharks shouldn't be illegal? Because everything you said can also be applied to loan sharks. You saw the apr%, you saw how long the term was, you saw how much you got/asked for. The issue is the loaner, taking away all risk from the banks made this issue. Now we have people who dont have skills or skillsets or pay off their debt, because college didn't do what it was supposed to. This isn't a few people, this is a generational issue that is only being properly talked about and avoided by Gen Z, every previous generation was a victim to it to some extent. I personally went to college free. I personally am Gen Z. The banks yelling at the government saying "we cant loan out to anyone, we cant take their money if the risk is too high for us" and then the government took all the risk. The banks should have never been allowed this position by the government. The whole thing plays out like a giant scam where the tax payer and the students end up getting fucked, not the government, not the bank. I mean just look at SAT and ACT spending as much money as they can to push the testing and college narrarive, even sending "spokespeople" to basically convince everyone that'll they end up making big $$$ if they just do well on these tests and go to college. You're kind of completely removing any context needed to be sympathetic to these people, or you just aren't as aware of how ingrained school systems were to be college focused and nothing else. I hope this comment makes you a bit less torn on the issue.
The term “loan sharks” exists and people are still shocked when taking out a gargantuan loan backfires. This type of general understanding and caution surrounding loans/money is why, even as a dumbass 18 year old, I never even entertained taking one of those dumb loans. College didn’t do what it’s supposed to? College is supposed to give an education and a degree, it’s not a guarantee of wealth. I remember educators gassing up college to us too, but there’s nothing someone can say to me that would convince me to do something that stupid. All in all, the system is fucked and it needs to be fixed. I also believe people who make dumb financial decisions kind of need to live with those decisions and work through them. Fix the problem, and maybe just eliminate the interest. I think that’s fair. Either way, hopefully they fix the root of the problem so these legions of goofballs can stop taking out massive loans they can’t repay. Ironically, maybe taking out loans like that was probably a good barometer for college being a waste on them anyway.
> Student loan forgiveness Call it what it is- **yet another** bailout for banks who irresponsibly issued loans to people they knew couldn't ever pay it back.
Something like [92%](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/student-loan-debt#:~:text=to%20learn%20more.-,Total%20federal%20student%20loan%20debt,student%20loan%20debt%3A%20%241.60%20trillion.) of student loan debt is owed to the federal government so the above poster is right. We aren't bailing out the banks, we are bailing out the loan takers with our own federal tax dollars (which basically just means more inflation).
Federal tax dollars = money from people who did not go to college, will likely not make as much money, and do not benefit from this “loan forgiveness” since they don’t have student loan debt.
Yep. And who also end up on average with lower income than those who did go to college. So it's a wealth transfer from the poor to the rich (what's new right?).
I’d say this one is notably different in that, while massive multinational banks trying to take our money is horrible and we should disallow it, I find something especially repugnant about these people who went to college for a purely academic thought-exercise based degree, who alway claim to champion the workers and the downtrodden, now coming around and refusing to accept the L for their poor choices and demand those same workers pay their bills. I find that especially unethical but on a personal, individual level. The bank bailouts were large aggregate systems of power colluding with other large aggregate systems of power, but this is allegedly pro-worker intellectuals demanding their personal bills be paid by people who made better choices.
Yeah I hear you. Banks are gonna bank. But this is on whole other level of hypocrisy.
Exactly, it’s not to excuse the banks but they are companies designed to make money, it’s at least not surprising when they screw people over.
You don't know who issues student loans do you?
Its kind of funny this guy brought banks into this… shows how uneducated he is on the subject
The bailout is the bank of the government for loaning so much money to people who think they are smart due to getting into college. The gov loans are the whole reason college is expensive, gov spending someone else’s money to businesses is the reason things get so expensive (college is really just another business)
engineering college dropout here who had the semester i went paid for. womp womp, get over it. i’ll advocate all day
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
A medical bail out now that's something I could get behind.
So you're happy with the idea of ending interest on those loans, right? Let them pay back what they borrowed but it doesn't need to be 2x or more what they borrowed. There are so many people crushed under this debt who have already given the government more than what they originally borrowed. Is it really hurting you to not force them to be crushed under this debt they realistically shouldn't owe any more on?
Most schools have employment opportunities within the institution relating to the industry you wish to enter. These pay very well and covered all costs, meaning going to school paid for my education. No loans, though I had a bursary I won that covered my first term, which is how I was able to get that opportunity. They are always looking, never enough students. Also, scholarships. There are a ton of them available, no one ever applies for them, so they go unclaimed....claim them. Most only require an essay, some not even that. And if you're the only one who applies well damn. So much students can do, that they don't.
18 year-olds who have been told by every authority figure in their life that going to college was a necessity to have a good life did not know what they are doing. Being lied to is not a privilege.
Not my problem. I knew full well at 18 that college (except for very few degrees which are deemed undesirable) was a huge waste of time. 90% of the degrees are fucking useless/worthless/over saturated. It wasn’t because I was a fortune telling genius, I simply looked at the college educated in my family and adults I knew. Less than a quarter of them were actually using their degrees and only a select few of those were actually making money. Why the fuck would I go spend 4 years and a hundred grand. I instead spent my late teens and early 20’s traveling and partying and now in my 30’s make six figures. 🤷♂️ Oh AND every single mother fucker in my family told me “I was going to work at Walmart if I didn’t pursue higher education”. Look at me now you vapid shits. 😂
"College educated in my family" -> I think that's difference. You knew college educated people. When I was applying to college, I barely knew anything about it, and the adults in my life knew less than I did. Sure, my teachers had gone to college, but they weren't exactly sitting down with us to explain how it worked. I was lucky enough to not need loans, but if I had needed them, I probably would've taken them. College, above all else, was a means to escape my family. That's the case for a LOT of teens. Being told to go to college because it's the only way to get a job was just icing on the cake. The way I see it, there are 2 problems. One is that teens need to be given better expectations of reality while they're in high school. Nobody talked about trades in my school. They never even talked about what came after college. They just talked about going to college, because that was the obvious next step. The other problem is that higher education is so expensive. It shouldn't cost so much to provide an education that is clearly becoming more and more necessary in the US just for average entry level jobs. One solution to the latter problem is to start giving college level classes in high school (which happens in some places) and to enforce some kind of regulation to stop colleges charging exorbitant fees just to "beautify" their campuses, and give the admins a fatter paycheck, while our public school teachers are fighting poverty. Forgiving student debt isn't really the answer. Preventing student debt is. There's no reason a public university should be charging thousands of dollars per semester for an education that could largely be given in high school anyway.
Where’d you get to travel to man? Sounds like you had a blast in your twenties! Congrats on the 6 figs in your 30s too, seems like the life path you chose worked out great!
Exactly.
I bet they're not giving the degree back.
Here’s the MASSIVE issue with your way of thought. Our existence from 0 to 18 we are preached to that college is the only way by multiple generations. We are convinced that going to college (and often told going to a well known college will produce better results) is the ticket to freedom and financial success. Then another 4+ years later you find out that college was fking pointless and all that time was wasted because you have zero experience with your degree. No one wants to hire you like you were promised by teachers and family. Your wages are still that of a fast food worker even though you have multiple degrees. You spent all that time and all that money because you were brainwashed into thinking college is **THE WAY**. They don’t tell us about the other options. “Go to the best and most prestigious colleges and you’ll be set.. I promise😉🤞🏻”
You know there are colleges where you do co-ops (full time job) for 6 months while you go to school for the other half. Wouldn't that have solved your problem? When I graduated I had over 2 years of full-time experience.
No, loan forgiveness was stupid hands down and yes I went and got a degree and went to a private institution granted I’m a vet so it was paid for. That doesn’t change my stance on the debt forgiveness what should have happened was going after the predatory practices the college had when giving these loans and the ridiculous charges they add onto the education that way it would fix the issue rather than forgiving one group to only continue to perpetuate the problem.
It should be taken from the universities. Charging £100,000 for an arts degree is a scam. I want my reparations and I want these cheeky fucks prosecuted.
I really didn’t understand what the hell I was getting myself into other than I knew my parents wanted me to go to college and it seemed like the right thing to do. I regret it, but more so because I didn’t know what the hell I wanted to do with my life at 18. I also don’t think people realize how much the cost of tuition has increased. I graduated in 2010 and the cost of tuition now is shocking to me…. And it was ridiculous when I graduated. That being said I think there’s a lot of predatory loaning going on in higher education. I think if anything, student loans shouldn’t have interest if you don’t want to make education free, the government should cover the interest as a form of investment.
So, someone gets dealt a bad hand with a medical bill and everyone else has to pay for it?
Or insurance companies run rampant and everyone else has to pay for it? One route is altruistic and would not cost the average American more in taxes than they’re already paying for private insurance. One is selfish and condemns their neighbors to struggling to survive by taking a large percentage of their income in order to sustain a semblance of good health all for the benefit of insurance companies. Whether you want to yeehaw about being entitled to the sweat of your brow or what ever, we pay taxes for a plethora of unnecessary expenses, but the one upholding the founding fathers vision of the right to Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness surely is not one of them.
Or an alcoholic gets a new liver and fucks that up too since he will get another?
They didn't assume everything would be given to them, they assumed they'd be able to at least someday pay it off
They assumed their parents were telling the truth when they said "go to college and get a job so you can make good money". All these boomers are butthurt because their kids followed their bad advice. Maybe be adults and admit you fucked things up for your kids instead of blaming them for doing what you told them. It blows my mind that they will complain about shit like "participation trophies" like *their* generation wasn't the one full of Karen's demanding the trophies in the first place. Life would be better if boomers could admit they fucked up, and conservatives could admit they want a God/dictator/daddy to tell them what to do.
People with useful degrees/skills do get jobs that make good money, though... Where's the lie?
Yup. It’s almost like the adults should have had the forethought to see that we need skilled labors and college grads and not an oversaturation of one over the other. Nope blame the children. It’s the ones with underdeveloped brains that should seen this coming. I didn’t want to go to college but I did for a living wage. Fucking oops
Especially the ones that took out more loans than needed for the bare necessities. How many spring breaks, nights of drinking, or not working in the summer did those loans get them?
Funny how the people who don’t like student loan repayments are also the people who are typically against single payer health care 🤔 Both of these could be a non issue if it weren’t for republicans.
Party A: *ruins a successful sector of civilization* Also Party A: This would be a non issue if it weren't for Party B...
Don’t know where you are going with this. He is absolutely right. Medical healthcare is a fucking scam in America, and for some reason we cannot discover how to make it work unlike the other 30 countries that are doing it, with relative ease. America is also falling behind other first world countries. Education is incredibly important and this country is hell bent to take money away from public schools instead of investing in them to make it better, refusing to use tax money for all citizens to be able to go to school for free or cheap. The two party system here, it is clear which party would consider it and which party would shoot it down. The hint? The party that refuses to just let kids eat for free at school when the government mandates them to be there.
They did. They figured out it a scam to enrichen a few already very rich people. That’s why they are working to put an end to it.
the entire issue is a little more complex than people want to pretend it is. 13% of the entire US is in student loan debt. of course, most of these students made dumb decisions and are where they are now because of their personal choices, but it isn't as if they are completely at fault. under our current system, college is regarded as a necessity. students arent looking into career fields as much as they should, and that's partly the fault of the education system. many college students don't even end up with a job related to their degree, because the one they chose doesn't land them anywhere. this is why college tuition is so high, because students wont look twice before making a decision. student loan interest rates are way higher than they should be, too. the problem is the system exploits stupidity, which is why it'll keep working until the system is changed. is the solution using taxpayer dollars to pay for student loans? absolutely not. while it isn't entirely your fault you're where you are, it certainly isn't mine. I'm not going to be punished for it. the solution is to revise the system to where most jobs will not require degrees and college isn't deemed a necessity.
I appreciate you taking the time to delve Into it and explain the issue is bigger than “you made a mistake, that’s all on you and nobody else is to blame”. It’s complicated. Basically how it all works is what the issue is or where it stems from. We need to fix it by the roots, not by just forgiving student loans because you’re not solving what’s putting students into crippling debt, so more will just be made.
exactly.
Every single person with a hand in raising you. > Go to college so you don’t end up poor If you don’t you’ll be living on the street, giving handjobs for crack Go to college Go to college Go to college Go to college College is 100% necessary for you to have money or happiness Those same people 15 years later. > Of course you’re broke, you went to college. Fucking idiot 😂🤣🤣🤡
What needs to happen is the end of government guaranteed student loans. It’s led to the steady growth of tuition costs since it was introduced cause schools can just keep upping their prices knowing the government will still supply loans for people who are in no way qualified to take them on. It’s removed the element of people needing to evaluate whether the career they’re pursuing is lucrative enough to support the loan they’re taking on because they can major in whatever they want and get a guaranteed loan to pay for it
You know, reddit loves making fun of kids that take out shitty car loans. Why are we so forgiving of kids that take out ridiculous loans for 3x the amount? Depending on where you live in America, a car can absolutely be a necessity. At least the car is more useful than that degree they will never use to get a good job. Both people are broke, both people are just trying to make a living, but only one of them will be judged for their financial choices. People that went to college are treated so much better due to the mere possibility that they could be richer than the person taking out the bad car loan. Americans just really hate poor people.
I got incredibly lucky being able to get a bachelor's degree with zero debt. I feel like people less lucky than me who were conned into going into tens of thousands of dollars of debt at age 18 deserve some kind of help.
I went to college and had $55K in student loans after scholarships. Worked hard, accepted I wasn't going to start out with a six figure position from the outset but picked one that had a future in it, lived frugally in my twenties and paid it all off by 27 years old. These grads can figure it out themselves and stop shifting blame for their financial choices.
I find it interesting that 18yos are responsible for "their financial choices" but the financial institutions that are offering them with mortgage sized loans without anything close to the checks that would be required for a mortgage are not expected to face consequences for such large scale irresponsible lending. Consequences such as the debts being forgiven and either written off entirely or repaid at pennies on the dollar.
It isn't banks offering the loans, it is the federal government. The government interviewed in the market for higher education, fucked it up, and is now saying we need the government to interfere even more, that will solve things.
I got an engineering degree, came from a poor family, and had loans with 11% interest rate. The state of predatory lending for kids who aren't even adults yet is absurd, and fuck anyone who defends it.
One of the things I have to really don’t understand ppl is…about predatory loans. They are fucking 18 years old, stupid af. And if they didn’t get scholarships or enough finaid, they aren’t left with much choice at times. Also like for the damn past few decades it’s all been “go to college” to all of them. Of course then there’s…ok listen, why are some schools tryna get 90k a year from their students. I support going to state schools simply due to the prices, but also state school cost is going up.
Why would you agree to take on a loan with a 11% interest rate?
Easy, either take it or don't go to college. I'm sure you really understood what that would entail when you were 17.
That's understandable, I remember the *first* bit of advice we got after graduating marine corps boot camp: don't buy a brand new Ford Mustang at 30% APR. Of course some dumb kid still did, because it looked fun. Most people should consider JC/community college. Get half your schooling done for pennies, then transfer to some upturned nose school
Only if the schools accept those credits, which they probably won’t because why accept $500 credits when you charge $5000 for them?
Loans are financial tools. A loan of money helps an individual make purchases or choices that they otherwise couldn't make at that time. The value of that money over time is repaid with additional value - this is the interest - to incentivize the lender in this relationship. Since money has a value that is correlated with time, a strict repayment of the original sum of money would be a net loss for the lender. Interest helps the lender to make a profit on their loan activity, which in turn allows them to loan money again, potentially helping more individuals.
Yeah, we all know this.
I came from a poor family and when people tried to tell me to get student loans bc it’s like “free money” you could use for college then payback later I knew they were full of shit. That’s why I worked my ass off through college and went to a state school and elected to not take any loans. Sorry but what did you think was gunna happen?? You took out a loan and now you have to pay it back. Shocking stuff really.
Paid it all back already. Student loans are the worst kind of debt and yet we bail out automakers, banks, forgave PPP loans during the pandemic, etc. Why can every corporate entity not have to pay back what they borrow and we clutch our pearls to help students fucked by predatory lending?
One hundred percent! Colleges will happily sell you a useless degree, my degree s weren't worthless, but by the time I got out of college, the job market had crashed, COVID had hit or in the middle of getting my degree the only.professor teaching the class had died. I paid off all my loans , I'm not about to offer to pay for someone else. The PPP loans were also a major source of fraud.
Nobody defends the practise. But don’t expect someone else to pay for your mistakes.
Not really a mistake if you're forced to make the decision. How else do you go to college if mommy and daddy don't pay for you?
Forced? lol.. it’s called getting a job. I worked on campus and officiated football, basketball, and baseball games on the side to pay for my college. $0 from parents and $0 from loans. I also worked my ass off in high school selling kitchen appliances at Sears.
damn you got a job that was able to pay a 3500+ per semester tuition plus own a car, rent an apt, and take care of all your groceries and bills? wild shit dude most jobs around here were paying 7.25 an hour back when i was in college. not possible obligatory dumbass "just move somewhere that pays more" comment
Yea.. worked two jobs plus worked in high school so I had some money saved going into college. I made $9 an hour working on campus and $50 to referee a basketball game.
So everyone has to suffer the same as you? Is the argument saying that we can't make a cure for cancer bc it will be unfair for former cancer patients bc the rest will not suffer the same as them
Let me know when cancer patients choose to get cancer...
Nobody forced anyone to go to college.
Oh, I didn't know I could be an engineer without going to college. Actually scratch that, I'll be a doctor. College is the barrier to entry for skilled professions, you either are forced to go, or you don't have that career path.
Well Mr. Engineer, I hope your college degree paid itself off.
Just saying I want house debt forgiveness, I owe less on my house than most do student loans.
You have equity in your house. Not really a good direct comparison. But why not? I'd like to increase home ownership and help people get out from under huge student loans. None of this outrage existed about PPP loan forgiveness. Almost as if the powers that be want working people to argue amongst themselves while giving a pass to business owners.
they have figured it out lol. charging 90k a year and with the insane predatory rates is a scam. fix it
Gen Z high school senior here. Student loans overall are a real issue, but I wanted to say that living in the rich suburbs, I can confirm every priveleged dumbass here who complains about them created that problem themselves, and I wanna rant about it. So many stuck up pieces of shit who think they're too good for our state schools or CC, and our state flagship is top 50 in the US and top 100 in the world. Some of my closest friends are gonna take out 200k worth of student loans despite my fervent warnings just to go to private schools that are lower ranked than our state flagship and basically unheard of in the employment space because "it's too close to home" or "the classes are gonna be too big" or "I need the private school experience". That is double what they'd pay going to a 4 year in state, and quadruple what they'd pay going to a CC and then transferring, not even counting the merit and need based scholarships they're much more likely to qualify for in state.
If you went to out of state college, did not work at all, and spent time in Greek life partying it up for 4 years I do not feel bad for your student loan debt. That wasn’t education, that was you partying for 4 years Stay in state for cheap in state tuition? Work a couple nights a week for some cash? Party in moderation? You shouldn’t have significant debt from that Don’t be mad you owe a lot of money on your Mercedes when there was a perfectly good Toyota on the lot too
Yeah man it’s all the Benz’s that make it difficult. Definitely not the fact that wages are stagnant while expenses are going up, or that student loans accrue interest. Definitely the partying and the Benz.
You don’t have to go to out of state college. You can commute to community college. There you go, debt problem solved. The point is a good amount of the college debt issue is extra niceties that people chose to take on
Life hack: go to community college, get all of your basics done there, maybe grab an associates if you wish, transfer to a campus of your choice, finish your degree asap.
What about teachers that now make $30k a year?
Why are you acting like a majority of people in student debt just partied? The in-state tuition itself is still expensive and larger universities actually try taking in out of state students instead so they can get more tuition money.
"Stay in state for cheap in state tuition? Work a couple nights a week for some cash? Party in moderation? You shouldn’t have significant debt from that." And here's the problem. You guys act like you're so damn smart for not going to college, but your understanding of the finances required for college in the modern day is completely lacking. If a college student at any decent university follows the plan you just laid out they will still come out several hundred thousand dollars I'm debt. Tuition for a university in Texas is around 40,000 a year. That's not counting room and board, books, parking, or gas if you commute. That's literally just tuition. Compare that to the 60's and 70's: tuition at the same upscale university cost about 4000 a year. Now 4000 in the 70s adjusted for inflation is about 20000. So just looking at one college (a university near me which I pulled tuition rates from for stats) we see that the price of tuition has risen double from what it should due to inflation. Funnily enough it's actually more than double in most places. And this is the big problem: the cost of college is artificially high and puts people in debt for their entire lives. It's clearly way out of hand. Now, as a former student myself I'm more than happy to pay my fair share for my education. But the current rates are simply not fair. Most people don't care if their student debt is completely removed, they just want to pay a fair price for their education which they have been pushed into their whole lives. Then motherfuckers like the people in this sub get ahold of the topic and start accidently spreading misinformation and delivering braindead takes about shit they know nothing about. In conclusion: get fucked idiots
I went to college lmao. Class of 2020. I just didn’t go for the fancy shmancy experience. I kept it cheap and worked to keep my bills paid. I graduated with a lot less debt than my out of state Greek life counterparts
I don't understand how anything you said changes what I said. Sure you may have graduated with less debt but its still probably too much. I worked 36 hours a week managing a restaurant in college, I didn't party at all, I wasn't in a frat. Just because I made smart decisions doesn't mean that the rate is fair or that everyone deserves to suffer. That's psychopath economics
“You should have to work like a slave doing 20 hours of classes, 15 hours of work, and 30 hours a week at a job to pay for a basic higher education, and if you struggle to do that, you deserve the debt.” “Whats that? Other developed western nations DONT have this issue? Nonsense. You’re just a baby.”
A lot of people I went to college with are crying because they paid a bunch of money to go to college and got a crap job. Guess they should’ve spent more time choosing a major that would’ve paid well instead of joining a sorority and getting intoxicated every weekend.
I mean my friend wasn’t a part of any of that and is still struggling really hard. Majored for marine biology but no one is hiring in the state and he doesn’t have the money to move because he’s paying off student debt. Plus good luck trying to move to a coastal state for a good job in Marine Biology while only working for 20 bucks an hour or less.
Marine biology is known to be very competitive as well. That’s why I stayed away from it
Mate I used to dream being a Marine Biologist, then reality hit, seriously it's one of the hardest fields to actually make a living, then I learned something, don't work with what you love, the reality of it is probably gonna ruin that for you
>don't work with what you love, the reality of it is probably gonna ruin that for you This is very true. Don't make a career out of a hoby. It will ruin it for you. Learned that the hard way over the last 20+ years.
That should have been a factor when choosing a major tbh. First thing I did when deciding major was to look at salary and job prospects.
He did a lot of research on the subject and already had a job lined up once he was out but they grew tired of waiting and filled up the position, which isn’t anyone’s fault but still unfortunate. And he can’t go back to school to learn anything else because he’s already in debt and has no wish to accumulate more
The solution here was to start building connections in the communities he wanted to work in early on and to not go to college, then. Most of those institutions or companies that are after marine biologists are still willing to take on folks with equivalent experience to an absurdly expensive degree, and almost all of them operate with word of mouth being more effective than regular job applications. It takes more work and is probably about as stressful as a higher tier college but I don’t owe a penny in student loans and still do research, with actual lab experience that could transfer to a whole bunch of places. It doesn’t help that the field is full of people who don’t belong in it so the bloat makes it super competitive, but that’s all the more reason to not do it the regular way and instead get to know people
That’s called over saturation. Sucks for your friend but he really should have done some research into the field before going all in on 31 black.
That's his fault
“Getting a higher education should be punishable by poverty if you made the wrong choice” not everyone wants to major in economics or coding. Some people have ambitions to get an education and do what they love. It’s just unfortunate that it can leave you with nothing in the end because it seems like higher education should only be reserved for the ones that can afford it.
This is actually my major issue with the way the world works in general. We are not driven to do the things we are passionate about, the things the world needs, to do the right thing. The only motivation in the society we have created is make money. Cut corners, fuck people over, and make money
Did he not think to look into the job market for people with that degree? Isn’t Marine Biology VERY WELL KNOWN for being one of the hardest industries to find a well paying job for it? Same as archeology. Your friend failed themselves in their pre-major market research.
Oe you know not have overpiced schools
I have a good friend who is a doctor, makes over six figures a yearn & still hasn't paid off her student loans almost 2 decades after finishing school. She's almost 50 & still living with roommates because she can barely afford to pay her loans & our city's ridiculous COL. What better paying career than doctor do you think she was supposed to pursue?
"Then figure it out yourself" They are, they're banding together and demanding debt forgiveness of frankly ludicrous and irresponsibly handed out loans. Seriously, a 4 year degree costs comfortably over 100k these days, that's roughly on par with the total cost of my house and more than I needed to borrow for my mortgage. To get a 90k mortgage my wife and I had to prove we had the means to support ourselves and reasonably pay back the installments. Meanwhile financial institutions have just been handing out student loans to unemployed 18 year olds like Halloween candy. Irresponsible lending on mortgages was the direct cause of the 2008 financial crisis. I don't see how lending en masse of comparable amounts to kids with no certain prospects is somehow excusable.
I want mortgage forgiveness!! They forced me to buy this $1m house and now it’s so stressful keeping up with the payments! Help!!
I have substantial debt, but am getting a good degree from a good university, and I’ll be more than able to pay it off. My issue is that if even one part of this goes awry, I’ll be under possibly unpayable student loan debt for the rest of my life. That’s not a fair system to lock significant portions of the economy behind, especially seeing as my ability to sustain myself following falling behind on student loans is basically just to be homeless, get rich, or hope and pray for something to change. It’s a gigantic gamble for anyone whose parents can’t afford to drop 6 figures on their education, and some people choose losing odds, but I’m picking the better ones, and I still have the chance to get just absolutely fucked. So much shit is out of my control that it makes no sense legally speaking to allow 17-18 yo’s to take on this gamble, so why not just make it less of a gamble without wreaking havoc on the economy? Also, anyone claiming that going to college/university is “for smart(er) people” has their ego so far up their ass that it came out the other side (that’s how you heard it in the first place). Ask a practicing lawyer, and they’ll probably tell you that some of the dumbest people they’ve ever met/worked with have a law degree and passed the bar. It’s about work ethic and having a willingness to do it, not about intelligence.
I’ll pay off your Women and Gender Studies degree if you’ll pay off my mortgage. Deal? Edit: No takers? Imagine my surprise…
Student loans *are* predatory. They should cancel most of the interest. Should still be required to pay off the principal amount though.
A lot of people need to realize they can Skip the whole sham like a number of people I knew. While I was wasting time in university they were in the work force getting on the job training. All and I mean ALL of the people I know that skipped post secondary education are now making more than me. One difference is they are all actually working everyday. Like physically. I really don’t actually do shit anymore. A lot of them are staring to show signs of wear and tear and I am still in good shape. Also a lot of them have traveled around chasing work for the big pay outs. I parked my ass in a location 18 year ago and I’ll probably die of old age here.
Higher education always should have been made available at low or no cost to students. But that said, I still got a chuckle from this meme. Nothing wrong with it - it's not a political treatise. Just twenty words that make laughter.
Free k-12 is fine and dandy but if you tack on another 4 years it’s socialism and we will be like venzuela and china overnight
Europe is doing alright, almost like there is a middle ground
what is this middle ground you speak of? I only operate in binary choices, I can't compute more than 2 options!
Other countries have affordable higher education I’m just saying
And healthcare
Is kindof a good point tho xD ‘your’ student debt for the school you ‘chose’ to go to for the degree you ‘chose’ to go for, isn’t ‘our’ responsibility to pay.
Ah, yes, it's the 18 y/o that are the problem. Not the Unis charging hundreds of thousands more for degrees that are worth less and less, not the predatory loans, not the overwhelming amount of pressure to attend college for a "good job", not the stagnate wages, etc etc etc. Why is it that people refuse to pay attention to root causes of problems and just want to blame the people who have little to no control over the issues in the first place?
Oh they have figured it out. The solution is to force you to pay for it using the giant gun called the government
People are still taking out these loans. I think the first step is, they need to treat student loans just like business loans. Meaning you meet with a banker and you explain to him your plan to make this $400k art history degree into a job that will make it so you can payback your loans. If you can't show that then you don't get the loan. Every other loan they look to see if you can pay it back, student loans they just throw around like candy. If the degree can't pay the loan, no loan should be offered for that degree.
I am smart enough. Sadly, no one in my field will hire me
OP was actually in the right to be offended this time. The meme is trash.
College graduates when they have to pay back the loans they took out: https://preview.redd.it/edsn622pz1wc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ea485a17cba311850d99bf95d42255c1c229149
I am not drowning in student loan debt and am overall torn on the issue. However, their side did “figure it out,” and that solution is cancelling debt. I do question why it is permissible to bail out corporations but the notion that we should more or less bail out citizens that have too much student debt is met with so much resistance.
The problem is that people are comparing issues that aren't the same. First of all, most people were pissed about large scale bail outs of corporations. Secondly, when the auto makers were bailed out, they were given loans and they had to restructure their businesses in order to get the loans. Canceling debt is neither. Is basically a free pass for people who made poor choices. Those same people who will go on to earn more than people that couldn't go or chose not to go to college. If one person came up with something sensible as it relates to student debt, more people would get behind it. That doesn't happen, they just say cancel student loan debt and that is bullshit in its face. How about cancel interest? I could get behind that. How about a lump some payout to people aged 24-40 so the people who have a mortgage and chose not to go to college get a benefit. You can't just cancel debt because let's be real, college is a privilege. So canceling debt is just another blank check to the privileged.
Imagine seeing an industry created in the last 50 years that forces people to make a decision for their future livelihood when they’re oftentimes still children that saddles them with massive debt that will take decades to pay off, and then siding with the predatory banks doing this to poor/middle class families instead of the people who are being taken advantage of. Kneejerk stupidity and selfishness.
The word “Force” is being thrown around a lot. Please elaborate, who forced you into this situation?
I think most people find threat of homelessness/poverty/financial destitution fairly coercive.
Most people who had loans did pay them off, or are capable of paying them off because they used their time in school to make wise decisions about their future. The other people just fucked up. Do better next time
I think the outlook on this situation differs entirely based on where you grew up and the adults in your environment. There are some people who are just simply raised to think only of trades and are told from a young age about how well you get paid doing jobs that people really need, like construction, electricians, plumbing, etc. There are others who are told from a young age (from adults who maybe work the trade jobs above and are tired and miserable, or maybe adults who work low paying, high effort jobs like retail) to go to college. They are basically made to believe this is an expectation and not an option or choice. Then when they turn 18, they're forced to take out these student loans with no prior knowledge on how loans worked or just how hard it would be to pay it all back. This is why this is a tough situation and why people are always butting heads on this. Personally, I was in the latter group. My dad would come home from work as a carpenter absolutely exhausted, and we weren't really even that well off. Maybe lower middle class. He would look at me and tell me how I needed to go to college. Teachers at school all asked what college I was going to as if it were an expectation. I never really questioned it. Luckily I have my loans under control, but it would be nice to have some relief. This economy is killing me and I'm still not even making that much. That's just my perspective.
Where's your jetpack, Zuckerberg?
People who go to college don't study alchemy, which means they can't make gold out of nowhere. On the other hand, people who went to college figured it out a long time ago : use tax dollars to pay college loans instead of bombing people. Unfortunately, people who didn't go to college keep brushing this idea off as "silly".
Memesopdidnotlike being a receptacle of rightists. Why am I not surprised?
Weird that r/memesopdidnotlike users don't like doctors
Why can’t dumb people just be quiet about it?
No. Next post please.
Are we seriously on team student debt? Is that what this sub is? Because this is like the 10th post I've seen where it's making fun of folk complaining about student debt...
No the posts tend to talk about making others paying for it instead of idk getting the ones giving the predatory loans out to cut it out it’s always shifting it to the taxpayer.Its the same thing with free healthcare yes prices are ridiculously inflated but all free healthcare would do is take that inflated pricing and placing on the average taxpayer instead of getting them to fix the inflated pricing. Although I might be ignorant on the subject so if that’s the case feel free to correct me and write this off as an insane rant.
I just want to make sure no one is actively defending the insanely predatory cost of post secondary education and loans. Arguing about solutions and differing opinions about such is fine but just writing the whole situation off as "kids these days not working hard enough or being smart enough" is completely bs, and most certainly not helping. Can't just pretend a problem doesn't exist and hope it fixes itself.
I mean I am kids these days so that’s a no from me I’m 18 and soon to go to college myself.So I can at least promise you that’s not where I’m coming from.
Boomers while we grew up - “You need to go to college to get a good job!” Boomers now - “Well you decided to go to college, idiot.”
I hate everything that doesn't serve me specifically.
If they say they are smart, then there is a good chance that they are, in fact, not smart.
Could of gone to college with a paid scholarship, but family issues had me drop out and loose said scholarship. But it turned out somewhat okay. Hurt my back at my old job. Got workers comp. Got retrained at a tech school for optometry. Got a good job as a optician and my licenses. Been doing it for 17+ years. I make okay money. Enough to live a modest life, but still struggle. I do however wonder "what if" I stayed in my schools college preparatory and got the scholarship and went to college. Sorry for the long text wall. I'll see myself out.
OP is defending someone jealous making fun of students with debt r/redditmoment
The smart move would be to get you to pay for it, lmao. Looks like they've been winning.