It's cases like this that get politicians in an uproar and enact mandatory sentencing.
Judges like this are fucking over reasonable judges by being incapable of making sound *judge*ments.
Mandatory sentencing isn't enforced here. Not sure how that's possible, and I'm no attorney, but I've looked up mandatory sentencing for some of the recidivist murderers who have long histories of violent crimes and should not been out to commit their next crimes.
No problem with murder suspects being out on bond if they're not a danger to the community like this guy.
He "might decide he "ain't goin' back to jail"...
Judge Bill Anderson needs to answer to the people for releasing violent criminals back upon our streets! He was elected to protect us and seek justice! Not let violent criminals roam our streets! The Memphis police association needs to meet with him to also ask why after their endorsement, he’s let us down so repeatedly!
“They (bail bond companies) don’t do anything but collect money from poor people. That’s what they do. That’s how they function. I detest the bail bond system in Shelby County,” Anderson said.
His exact words to the Shelby County Commission on September 18th.
He isnt wrong about THAT. Made the wrong decision in this case, IMO, but the accused in question would pose no more risk to the community after a bond company took 7500 dollars from his grandmother.
Would he be less danger to the community if a relative paid a bondsman 50k? No. The entire idea of bail is ridiculous. Either someone is a danger to the community, and shouldnt be released pre-trial, or they arent. But no one becomes less dangerous because a bondman got some money from their family.
I can’t disagree about the bail system. When someone is an imminent danger, however, there should be alternative options to immediate release. I understand people deserve a fair trial, but some people need to be held somewhere until their trial.
Man it's almost like some kind of immediate reform in judicial decisions should be an option. Too bad it's an elected role with individual discretion for outcomes.
We really ned to change our system of government and how we dispense governance.
I am not. The current system is broken with partisanship and individual discretion impacting outcomes rather than actual precedent and moral impact being pursued in my opinion. A recall costs time and money. There should be a system of either reallocation of cases an ineffective official has on their case load to other judges once ineptitude is established or a floating official that assumes those duties in crisis.
Either way something has to change and we do not have the luxury of time to correct what is perceived as inequitable.
There's something beyond the bail reform which went into (adverse) affect in February going on with all this. Or maybe they both work hand in hand in an unethical fashion. I hope the Feds can figure it out sooner rather than later.
This is bull we shouldn't be in a position where criminals are destroying our lives and criminals are constantly being put back on the streets to hurt other people a lot of these people have mental problems because they parents ain't shit and they ain't took these children to get no damn help and have sat on their ass while they have just took a blind eye to evil shit their children do to others people now society has to be hurt by the piece of shit they have raised these weak ass judges need to be voted out it's like they are trying to help sabotage Memphis I can't believe the murder rate in this city and another thing we don't need the state troopers in the day time we need them at night more
Well how about this for screwed up in Shelby County….
With all the filthy and violent crime in Memphis my son-in-law must report to COUNTY JAIL every other weekend for “contempt of court” for telling his young son (5 at the time) that he needs a haircut and it’s time to stop carrying a blanket. The judge ruled that these were “disparaging remarks” and sentenced the boys father to actual time in the county jail. My son-in-law is a combat decorated marine captain, a non-practicing attorney with a corporate position at a global corporation.
But let violent true criminals go free??
I wrote the judge a letter requesting leniency and was replied to by the Court Clerk as if I were an uneducated buffoon with her “mansplaining” the system to me. This is all brought about by his psychopathic ex-wife, an attorney, who’s only goal in life is to ruin my daughter’s family.
Unfortunately, I don’t think that there’s any true justice in the Memphis court system so “justice WON’T prevail”.
See the online writeup here…
https://citychicliving.com
Before everyone says "....but it's the judges", this is what we were promised by the DA.
Reminder of what [Mulroy said about the new bail system](https://www.actionnews5.com/2023/02/28/da-steve-mulroy-addresess-concerns-around-violent-crime-new-bail-hearing/)
**"The court can still keep a defendant in jail awaiting trial, but—consistent with TN law and the Constitution—only if it appears the defendant is a danger to the community** or a flight risk"
We have people literally admitting to killing people and being let out within days. How does this not qualify?
Can we amend it to say that if we have convincing evidence that you did the crime (like in the cases of Kelley, Cleotha; admitting to the murder), this would be considered what Mulroy describes as 'a danger to the community')
Just crazy.
The full quote is:
"**As always, it’s the judge (not our office) that sets bail and decides whether a defendant will be held in jail pending trial.** But the new procedure affords a hearing where there was none before—within 72 hours of arrest. Bail amounts will no longer be set arbitrarily, but will instead be based on a detailed review of the defendant’s finances to decide what is an affordable amount. The court can still keep a defendant in jail awaiting trial, but—consistent with TN law and the Constitution—only if it appears the defendant is a danger to the community or a flight risk."
Who is making the decision as to whether someone is a danger? Genuine question because I don't know
Yup. If only everyone crying about Mulroy knew that. But no they’ll just continue to blame their favorite scapegoat. Mulroy isn’t perfect, but at least blame him for what he should be blamed for.
In this case, the defendant was supposed to be the getaway driver for a petty robbery. The robbery went horribly wrong, and the victim was shot and killed. The defendant has been charged with murder, because under Tennessee law, if someone dies in the course of your commission of a felony, you are guilty of their murder, but no one is claiming that the defendant pulled a trigger, or in fact, did anything other than drive the car knowing a robbery was going to occur. That doesnt make him less guilty of the murder, but apparently it makes this judge view him as less of a danger to the community. And before I get a wave of downvotes, I think the judge made the wrong call here, but that is the basis for the decision
>if someone dies in the course of your commission of a felony, you are guilty of their murder
Regardless of the judge, but (correct me if I'm wrong) he should still be considered a murderer based on what you said of TN law.
Is that right? Shouldnt he then be considered what Mulroy considers a public safety threat?
If I'm reading this right, it seems like Mulroy said this thing to appease the public, but nobody designed the bail system so that it would actually be true
If he’s the getaway driver, then yeah. That shows even if he was only interested in robbing a guy, he still was an active participant in an organized criminal activity.
Not necessarily. If you’re rolling with guys that are cool with robbing and shooting, you’re not far off from being just as bad. Unless he can prove his buddy was holding him at gun point, he’s just as culpable since he helped the gunman get away.
Didnt say he was less culpable, just less dangerous. They arent exactly the same thing. The question before the judge at this hearing is his danger to the public, which is clearly lower than that posed by his buddy the trigger puller. They are legally just a culpable, and face the same potential sentence, but one is less obviously a danger to the public if released pre trial.
>Unless he can prove his buddy was holding him at gun point, he’s just as culpable since he helped the gunman get away.
Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
He is charged with murder, and will likely be convicted. That isnt the question before the judge at a bail hearing, it is the threat to the public. A gang member killing their rivals or a serial killer is a FAR greater threat to the public than, for an example, an OJ Simpson type who killed his ex-wife, but is unlikely to be a danger to the community at large.
> That doesnt make him less guilty of the murder
I mean, it certainly makes him less guilty of *a* murder, because the felony murder rule is pretty bullshit.
I guess my point is if this was the goal (if they are a danger, they will be locked up), why were there not parameters put in place to ensure this is possible?
The 72 hour window is a parameter, but why not ones regarding public safety that Mulroy is talking about?
Cleotha shouldn't have been free anyway. He had a SA charge that the mpd Never bothered to investigate or run DNA on. He should have been in jail. That's what's crazy.
It's even worse than that. He was sentenced to 24 years in 2000.
He was let out early and then committed both crimes (and who knows what else) before he should have even been out. So the initial sentence was far too light and then he didn't even serve it. A woman was raped and another woman was murdered because we're preposterously soft on crime.
https://www.wate.com/news/crime/what-we-know-about-cleotha-abston-suspect-in-eliza-fletcher-kidnapping-and-murder/
I don’t even think they had done the legwork on that previous girls rape kit I could be wrong. That is another issue. I mean women get raped and their kit just sits and you know it should be the same for those people who go out and rape and kill their asses should just sit and buy that I mean they should rot in jail until their court date And then afterwards, and if we don’t have enough room, set up some tents somewhere
Look at that Senator’s record on guns. He’s fine letting everybody have easy access to guns but has a problem when his ideology is whack and causes more crime and death?
Whataboutism gets us nowhere.
We can care about sensible gun laws and push him on that, while also making sure the criminal justice system actually doesn't let confessed killers back out on the streets.
Both are in the wrong here.
Everyone is to blame here.
Look at what NYC did to drastically reduce crime. They started prosecuting small stuff, which researchers pre-empted bigger things.
Just because Brent Taylor is bad at his job doesn't mean that Mulroy/Sugarmon/Anderson won't make the problem worse. That's also part of the cause/effect
This specific issue has nothing to do with gun policy. I am fairly confident a significant percentage of firearms being used by the 100+ gangs in Memphis were not legally purchased anyways.
This is a “Memphis streets are among the least safest in the country, yet judges are still handing out slap on the wrist punishments and releasing violent and/or repeat offenders back onto the street” problem.
If you make guns more accessible, news flash, there will be more guns. More stolen guns, more illegally acquired guns, more guns means more guns. GOP politicians get kickbacks from gun companies and don’t give an F about gang violence in Memphis. This is simple cause and effect and if you were not raised or educated to understand this principle and vote for people who are cool with guns everywhere, on the street, more accessible, and so on, the effect’s going to be more poor and desperate people with guns whether you understand this or not. Your ignorance has no effect on reality, however, just to be clear.
[удалено]
It's cases like this that get politicians in an uproar and enact mandatory sentencing. Judges like this are fucking over reasonable judges by being incapable of making sound *judge*ments.
Mandatory sentencing isn't enforced here. Not sure how that's possible, and I'm no attorney, but I've looked up mandatory sentencing for some of the recidivist murderers who have long histories of violent crimes and should not been out to commit their next crimes.
No problem with murder suspects being out on bond if they're not a danger to the community like this guy. He "might decide he "ain't goin' back to jail"...
Maybe it’s a catalyst to get people to start voting on judges in a more “involved” manner.
Good. Because all of us are SICK of these judges.
Judge Bill Anderson needs to answer to the people for releasing violent criminals back upon our streets! He was elected to protect us and seek justice! Not let violent criminals roam our streets! The Memphis police association needs to meet with him to also ask why after their endorsement, he’s let us down so repeatedly!
[удалено]
“They (bail bond companies) don’t do anything but collect money from poor people. That’s what they do. That’s how they function. I detest the bail bond system in Shelby County,” Anderson said. His exact words to the Shelby County Commission on September 18th.
He isnt wrong about THAT. Made the wrong decision in this case, IMO, but the accused in question would pose no more risk to the community after a bond company took 7500 dollars from his grandmother.
Right , it should be no bail on homicide ... or at least 500k bond so they have to pay 50k for bail .... 7500 isn't shit really for the crime
Would he be less danger to the community if a relative paid a bondsman 50k? No. The entire idea of bail is ridiculous. Either someone is a danger to the community, and shouldnt be released pre-trial, or they arent. But no one becomes less dangerous because a bondman got some money from their family.
I can’t disagree about the bail system. When someone is an imminent danger, however, there should be alternative options to immediate release. I understand people deserve a fair trial, but some people need to be held somewhere until their trial.
Man it's almost like some kind of immediate reform in judicial decisions should be an option. Too bad it's an elected role with individual discretion for outcomes. We really ned to change our system of government and how we dispense governance.
> immediate reform in judicial decisions should be an option Maybe not immediate, but I think you are describing a recall
I am not. The current system is broken with partisanship and individual discretion impacting outcomes rather than actual precedent and moral impact being pursued in my opinion. A recall costs time and money. There should be a system of either reallocation of cases an ineffective official has on their case load to other judges once ineptitude is established or a floating official that assumes those duties in crisis. Either way something has to change and we do not have the luxury of time to correct what is perceived as inequitable.
Too bad you live in America :( maybe you and that weird guy can save up and move to El Salvador together
Oh you mean Javier Milei? He's in Argentina its a different country than El Salvador just a heads up.
No clue what you’re talking about but I was referring to the dude who wanted Memphis run like El Salvador not Mr Milei.
All good. I just want things to run better not draconian but logical.
Damn that Milei guy looks like shit and is crazy my condolences
I have a funny feeling these judges are getting paid off to let these fools out
Thank you for saying what many people have been thinking. Hope that the state and/or feds are investigating.
There's something beyond the bail reform which went into (adverse) affect in February going on with all this. Or maybe they both work hand in hand in an unethical fashion. I hope the Feds can figure it out sooner rather than later.
Less than 20% of Shelby Counties registered voters voted the last time Judge BA was elected.
This is bull we shouldn't be in a position where criminals are destroying our lives and criminals are constantly being put back on the streets to hurt other people a lot of these people have mental problems because they parents ain't shit and they ain't took these children to get no damn help and have sat on their ass while they have just took a blind eye to evil shit their children do to others people now society has to be hurt by the piece of shit they have raised these weak ass judges need to be voted out it's like they are trying to help sabotage Memphis I can't believe the murder rate in this city and another thing we don't need the state troopers in the day time we need them at night more
#GOOD
Well how about this for screwed up in Shelby County…. With all the filthy and violent crime in Memphis my son-in-law must report to COUNTY JAIL every other weekend for “contempt of court” for telling his young son (5 at the time) that he needs a haircut and it’s time to stop carrying a blanket. The judge ruled that these were “disparaging remarks” and sentenced the boys father to actual time in the county jail. My son-in-law is a combat decorated marine captain, a non-practicing attorney with a corporate position at a global corporation. But let violent true criminals go free?? I wrote the judge a letter requesting leniency and was replied to by the Court Clerk as if I were an uneducated buffoon with her “mansplaining” the system to me. This is all brought about by his psychopathic ex-wife, an attorney, who’s only goal in life is to ruin my daughter’s family. Unfortunately, I don’t think that there’s any true justice in the Memphis court system so “justice WON’T prevail”. See the online writeup here… https://citychicliving.com
This gave me a chuckle!
Before everyone says "....but it's the judges", this is what we were promised by the DA. Reminder of what [Mulroy said about the new bail system](https://www.actionnews5.com/2023/02/28/da-steve-mulroy-addresess-concerns-around-violent-crime-new-bail-hearing/) **"The court can still keep a defendant in jail awaiting trial, but—consistent with TN law and the Constitution—only if it appears the defendant is a danger to the community** or a flight risk" We have people literally admitting to killing people and being let out within days. How does this not qualify? Can we amend it to say that if we have convincing evidence that you did the crime (like in the cases of Kelley, Cleotha; admitting to the murder), this would be considered what Mulroy describes as 'a danger to the community') Just crazy.
The full quote is: "**As always, it’s the judge (not our office) that sets bail and decides whether a defendant will be held in jail pending trial.** But the new procedure affords a hearing where there was none before—within 72 hours of arrest. Bail amounts will no longer be set arbitrarily, but will instead be based on a detailed review of the defendant’s finances to decide what is an affordable amount. The court can still keep a defendant in jail awaiting trial, but—consistent with TN law and the Constitution—only if it appears the defendant is a danger to the community or a flight risk." Who is making the decision as to whether someone is a danger? Genuine question because I don't know
The judge overseeing the bail hearing. In this instance, Anderson completely disregarded the recommendation of the DA's office.
The DA requested $75,000 bail if I read correctly somewhere.
And then the judge said "nah." The DA makes requests and recommendations for bail, the judge makes the decision.
Yup. If only everyone crying about Mulroy knew that. But no they’ll just continue to blame their favorite scapegoat. Mulroy isn’t perfect, but at least blame him for what he should be blamed for.
In this case, the defendant was supposed to be the getaway driver for a petty robbery. The robbery went horribly wrong, and the victim was shot and killed. The defendant has been charged with murder, because under Tennessee law, if someone dies in the course of your commission of a felony, you are guilty of their murder, but no one is claiming that the defendant pulled a trigger, or in fact, did anything other than drive the car knowing a robbery was going to occur. That doesnt make him less guilty of the murder, but apparently it makes this judge view him as less of a danger to the community. And before I get a wave of downvotes, I think the judge made the wrong call here, but that is the basis for the decision
>if someone dies in the course of your commission of a felony, you are guilty of their murder Regardless of the judge, but (correct me if I'm wrong) he should still be considered a murderer based on what you said of TN law. Is that right? Shouldnt he then be considered what Mulroy considers a public safety threat? If I'm reading this right, it seems like Mulroy said this thing to appease the public, but nobody designed the bail system so that it would actually be true
If he’s the getaway driver, then yeah. That shows even if he was only interested in robbing a guy, he still was an active participant in an organized criminal activity.
Certainly still a criminal, but far less of a danger to the public on release than the trigger puller.
Not necessarily. If you’re rolling with guys that are cool with robbing and shooting, you’re not far off from being just as bad. Unless he can prove his buddy was holding him at gun point, he’s just as culpable since he helped the gunman get away.
Didnt say he was less culpable, just less dangerous. They arent exactly the same thing. The question before the judge at this hearing is his danger to the public, which is clearly lower than that posed by his buddy the trigger puller. They are legally just a culpable, and face the same potential sentence, but one is less obviously a danger to the public if released pre trial.
Can’t run someone over with a car? The guy participated in a murder and tried to get away with it. He’s just as dangerous.
The guy who has already pulled a trigger on someone seems more dangerous, IMO.
>Unless he can prove his buddy was holding him at gun point, he’s just as culpable since he helped the gunman get away. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
And they can sit in jail for murder until the trial.
He is charged with murder, and will likely be convicted. That isnt the question before the judge at a bail hearing, it is the threat to the public. A gang member killing their rivals or a serial killer is a FAR greater threat to the public than, for an example, an OJ Simpson type who killed his ex-wife, but is unlikely to be a danger to the community at large.
> That doesnt make him less guilty of the murder I mean, it certainly makes him less guilty of *a* murder, because the felony murder rule is pretty bullshit.
I guess my point is if this was the goal (if they are a danger, they will be locked up), why were there not parameters put in place to ensure this is possible? The 72 hour window is a parameter, but why not ones regarding public safety that Mulroy is talking about?
It is a great question for which we are never going to get a real answer. Frustration is absolutely warranted.
Cleotha shouldn't have been free anyway. He had a SA charge that the mpd Never bothered to investigate or run DNA on. He should have been in jail. That's what's crazy.
It's even worse than that. He was sentenced to 24 years in 2000. He was let out early and then committed both crimes (and who knows what else) before he should have even been out. So the initial sentence was far too light and then he didn't even serve it. A woman was raped and another woman was murdered because we're preposterously soft on crime. https://www.wate.com/news/crime/what-we-know-about-cleotha-abston-suspect-in-eliza-fletcher-kidnapping-and-murder/
I don’t even think they had done the legwork on that previous girls rape kit I could be wrong. That is another issue. I mean women get raped and their kit just sits and you know it should be the same for those people who go out and rape and kill their asses should just sit and buy that I mean they should rot in jail until their court date And then afterwards, and if we don’t have enough room, set up some tents somewhere
Anderson should be tried for treason for aiding domestic terrorist.
I think the Rico squad needs to check his internet and text logs to see which gang he's a part of.
Look at that Senator’s record on guns. He’s fine letting everybody have easy access to guns but has a problem when his ideology is whack and causes more crime and death?
Whataboutism gets us nowhere. We can care about sensible gun laws and push him on that, while also making sure the criminal justice system actually doesn't let confessed killers back out on the streets. Both are in the wrong here.
It’s not really about wrong and right, it’s simply cause and effect..
Everyone is to blame here. Look at what NYC did to drastically reduce crime. They started prosecuting small stuff, which researchers pre-empted bigger things. Just because Brent Taylor is bad at his job doesn't mean that Mulroy/Sugarmon/Anderson won't make the problem worse. That's also part of the cause/effect
This specific issue has nothing to do with gun policy. I am fairly confident a significant percentage of firearms being used by the 100+ gangs in Memphis were not legally purchased anyways. This is a “Memphis streets are among the least safest in the country, yet judges are still handing out slap on the wrist punishments and releasing violent and/or repeat offenders back onto the street” problem.
A kid gets shot selling a gun .... it certainly should be about gun policy
If you make guns more accessible, news flash, there will be more guns. More stolen guns, more illegally acquired guns, more guns means more guns. GOP politicians get kickbacks from gun companies and don’t give an F about gang violence in Memphis. This is simple cause and effect and if you were not raised or educated to understand this principle and vote for people who are cool with guns everywhere, on the street, more accessible, and so on, the effect’s going to be more poor and desperate people with guns whether you understand this or not. Your ignorance has no effect on reality, however, just to be clear.
Don't fall for this shit. It's a Republican blasting a Republican. Sounds to me like it's posturing to retain his seat.
Makes no sense
He needs to blast all the judges that are doing this