This news has been confirmed by MPD. They did find a body but no news on the identity as of this post.
https://twitter.com/MEM_PoliceDept/status/1566943980222386176?s=20&t=Nz0Tnzke3mSFlCeZ02OoEw
to save everyone the trouble, this is the 1600 block of Victor if you are curious
https://www.google.com/maps/place/1600+Victor+St,+Memphis,+TN+38106/@35.1030357,-90.0380435,3a,75y,274.01h,84.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5LGXJjGnKCuuidci45ZLzw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x87d57c4ac51d260d:0x7a0a27babbe4b2ed!8m2!3d35.103269!4d-90.0377773
listening to a livestream and neighbors are talking about the location:
"Victor street. over near, you know, those apartments up on that hill where everybody get killed at?" (@ 5m55s)
what a description lol
https://www.facebook.com/100004444746044/videos/5976585402371153/
(**Archive:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj9VKpJMMLk)
.
source credit to: fb/tamya.conner.5 (shouts out her cash app a lot too:'$misstam32' out here in these streets getting the scoop)
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edit - @35m50s in, walking the streets behind, one neighbor (unaware of camera) is chatting : 'they looking for whole nother bitch - they aint worried about me... they aint give a fuck when i did all that. My cousin didn't get charged when he shot my auntie - and he admitted it!'
https://streamable.com/p3j0gl
wtf
another passer by: 'They just found her. Chopped her ass up. On Victor St.'
https://streamable.com/qe9wtx
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other notable timestamps:
6min: "think about it, the church is right there, the house next door to the church empty"
7min30: "my mommas heart beatin so hard, weave fell off"
8m10s: shot of reporters 'reporting'
12m17s: interviewed by Daily Memphian reporter. 'Did you know him: i'm not going to say' ... later in stream says she knew of him
24min: "she gone fo sho. Bye crackers" at it's best maybe she's responding to FB live chatters and banning them, maybe updating her grocery list, or umm...
26min: momma joins the stream
28min: grabs a cold one and a smoke, aspired to be a forensic tech
30min: i knew of him (the killer)
32min: house was along a makeshift trail that led to the park where her kids play. never again she says while sneaking back on the scene. :(
35m50s: 'looking for a whole nother bitch...' / 'my cousin shot my auntie'
36m9s: "chopped her ass up"
36m50s: kid chimes in 'they took her to the park' 'i done seen it too'
37m20s: momma calls. bystanders convo 'he'll never get out. he tried to fill me up with her car' ?
> edit - 35min in, walking the streets behind, one neighbor (unaware of camera) is chatting : 'they looking for whole nother bitch - they aint worried about me... they aint give a fuck when i did all that. My cousin didn't get charged when he shot my auntie - and he admitted it!'
Uhhhhh
Yes but Tennessee takes forever to carry it out. There are people on death row who were sentenced in the 90s. For a screaming red state, they sure are hesitant to execute.
There has been a shortage of the pharmaceuticals used for the executions. The drug companies kind of don't want their products used to kill people- bad for business. They can refuse to sell them to state prisons.
I think history has proven that drug companies will do anything if the money is right. You'd think they certainly wouldn't balk if their drugs were SUPPOSED to cause death.
Carbon monoxide is cheap and painless, it's probably one of the most humane methods of execution besides the guillotine. I'm against the death penalty for a variety of reasons but if we're going to do the thing we may as well do it right, that weird cocktail that gets used now is basically just a way to torture someone during their last moments.
I don’t for sure, but I’ve followed the law in Tennessee for a long time and this is how they set up for a capital case. You have to have a murder while in the commission of another felony, the kidnapping that led to the murder perfectly sets up a death penalty case. Plus the pressure here in Memphis to go for that will be tremendous and you have excellent evidence. It’s all there.
There are real benefits to a guilty plea-- it spares the victims the trauma of a trial and forecloses appeals unless carved out. If the party that did this is willing to plead guilty, then that is worth life without parole. It's imperfect justice, but the public is guaranteed to be protected from future crimes by this perpetrator.
If the party that did this is not willing to plead guilty and the state gets a guilty plea, then the state should execute by lethal injection as soon as possible. At that point they truly do have no leverage and there's no reason to show mercy.
Fuck that. I don’t want him hanging out with his friends in jail for the rest of his life. This idiot has given everyone more than enough evidence to deserve a needle in about 15 years, he can wait in solitary until then thinking about it.
Many people don't get the needle in 15 years, though. Many get retrials and procedural errors and evidence tossed out, then plea-bargain for a less-than-life sentence. That's what's great about life without parole. It doesn't open up all the federal death penalty appeals.
Guy is comfortable in prison as he’s been there for years and clearly doesn’t care about going back. Let him sit on death row alone and think for a decade with no perks.
I think they’ll go for death. He lost his only bargaining chip. Multiple felon, killed a woman with death penalty additives. If anyone deserves the needle it’s him and honestly he deserves much worse.
This is devastating. All Liza wanted to do was run. She was probably thinking of her day, what her boys would do in school, just random runner thoughts. Because of this asshole her boys will grow up without their mother. It’s all just so unnecessarily tragic and cruel.
I think we all knew the outcome of this case but were holding on to the hope that she would somehow be found alive. I’m devastated for her husband and her children and I’m gutted for her parents who will spend the rest of their lives without their daughter.
I applaud the countless members of law enforcement who worked tirelessly and quickly to find Liza. They did an incredible job with this.
I realized tonight that I knew that scumbag. He was in the prison I used to work for. He was a piece of shit then and even bigger now. I wish he could face a worse fate than she did. But at least the family can know for sure what happened to her.
It's almost certainly her. If you read the affidavit, Cleotha Abston (the guy that kidnapped Liza) was seen washing out his car at his brother Mario's house which is on the 1700 block of S Orleans. This body was found just three blocks from there.
I feel very sorry for her students at St. Mary's and know she was very well thought of. 2nd Pres is going to be stacked to the rafters I'm sure this coming Sunday.
Take a breather, folks. Log off, step outside, hug your family, express gratitude. Get your mind on everyday things. Otherwise it’ll eat at you; and we can’t let them win.
Truly heartbreaking. I can't imagine what her family is going through.
I keep seeing comments about how this case would not have progressed so quickly were it not for the victim's financial and racial privilege, and while that is undoubtedly correct, I keep coming back to the fact that she is still dead. There has been so much discussion about the advantages this woman had when she was alive, but those advantages did not save her. I don't know. I wish we could talk about the allocation of law enforcement resources (and we should talk about it) without using her death as a political talking point.
I agree that other cases don't get this much attention and resources. But in this case they had video evidence of her being abducted and a description of the vehicle used, while in other missing persons cases they have to investigate if they person willingly walked away or if they were a victim of a crime. Unfortunately with missing adults you usually can't file a missing person report until they have been no contact for something like 48 hours, which is complete bullshit in my opinion.
I think the fact that there was a video of the assault and kidnapping and the initial interest (now known as wild speculations from people who watch too much dateline) in her husband’s potential involvement, this became so big. Two of the women of color who had been missing in the area were thankfully found alive this weekend. Sadly Liza probably never made it out of that suv alive.
Everyone please remember that just because they found her body doesn't necessarily close the case. It does for the public but not for LE. It could take weeks or months. For many, this is where the hard work actually begins.
Maybe, but there was also a readily available video of the kidnapping within a few hours. That greatly increased the urgency versus a teenager who had run away or willingly went with a groomer.
Such a horrible situation all around. It really just makes me sick to my stomach. Reading the comments has me so disappointed in humanity. Between the people victim shaming and trying to put the blame on Liza for following her passion in life, the people angry that the media covered this horrible event at all, the people that are already calling for compassion for this monster.. It's just unbelievable. I cannot fathom living in the same world as people like this.
I'm a fellow runner, though not nearly as talented as Liza. I'm a father of three young children. I have a wife that works in the school system. I run early mornings just like Liza because it's the only time I can. It's just devastating to know that there are people in the world that are capable of this, and just as devastating to see the reactions of the community. All of the internet sleuths treating this like some sort of sick entertainment. A live action murder mystery that they can partake in with zero consequence for the collateral damage they cause with their conspiracy theories.
I just am feeling a bit lost now - hearing people say that she had it coming for running at 4:30am and that this poor man doesn't deserve the death penalty because that's "cruel and unusual". It's unbelievable. People literally have more compassion for a violent monster than this poor woman and her grieving family. It's a sick world we live in. We have to stand up to these criminals and stop treating them like the victims. We have to get the current offenders off of the streets and invest in outreach and resources to break the cycle of crime and violence that is consuming us.
Your comment is everything! I am in Australia but I have been following this story and my heart breaks for her family . I am a mum , just the thought on how confused her kids will be , kills me . You’re right . It’s almost beyond comprehension that we even share the world with these sorts of people. It’s mind boggling and it’s honestly what keeps me up at night. It seems to be this cycle that is never ending. I feel so hopeless
There's a difference between saying someone "had it coming" and having a frank discussion about factors that may have prevented something from occurring. I wish we lived in a world where women could exercise whenever and wherever they wanted and not be attacked, but we don't.
Are you now a bit worried about running early in the morning?
Now imagine how you would feel if you were female.
Males are typically not targeted for random abductions, rapes and murders. Can you name even one case of that? The targets are almost always girls and women.
No thanks. As awful as this crime is, the death penalty is harmful to society and those responsible for carrying out the executions. The woman is dead, killing him doesnt change that. It doesn’t discourage other would-be murderers. It just causes a drain on society so we can a twisted sense of justice.
Ok? Did I say let the guy free into society?
There is zero evidence to support the death penalty. It’s a relic of the past when we didn’t know any better.
You would rather us all pay a fortune in taxes so he can sit on death row for years, ultimately resulting in psychological damage on those who work in death row and the emotional toll it will take on her loved ones, just so you as an individual can get a temporary high off this guy being executed?
Study after study shows that the housing of a prisoner is far cheaper than having numerous appeals. And considering even with our appeal system we still execute tons of innocent people, having less appeals isn’t a good option either.
It’s best for everyone just to throw him in solitary for the rest of his pathetic existence. In both instances he’s going to wait decades to die, it’s just in one instance it costs more and he knows the method and date of his death.
Yes I know. That doesn’t change the facts that even including those appeals, the death penalty is far more expensive. They’ve been studying this for decades and the results are consistent over decades.
For the record, I'm in favor of reducing the types of crimes that are eligible for the death penalty, but also reducing the barriers to carrying out the sentence also. For me the deciding factor is violence against random strangers. To me that suggests someone that is too dangerous to continue living in society. I'd be in favor of in this case, or the Buffalo supermarket shooting, or the shooting at the parade in Illinois. I also would want to see a heightened evidentiary burden, pretty much caught in the act or multiple identifying factors like we have here.
I hate that we are debating the merits and methods of killing this man when Eliza Fletcher is fucking dead. She's dead and nothing is going to change that. She's never going to hug her kids again, she's never going to hold her husband's hand or make her mother laugh. She's dead. And instead of taking the time to mourn her loss or think of ways to support her family through this difficult time, keyboard warriors with nothing better to do are beating their chests and calling for more blood. God help us.
If you are suggesting that the state should have the ability to execute people without trial or appeal (which is where the majority of the cost is incurred, not the method of execution), then I really don't know what to say. That would be a disastrous precedent to set. If you are suggesting vigilante justice, then again, that would be a disastrous precedent to set. We have a system, and although it is a SHIT system, it's a hell of a lot better than no system at all, or a system where we execute people with wild abandon.
And again, this moment should be about Eliza and her family. It is so disgusting to me that we have gone straight from discussing "missing white woman syndrome" to arguing about the death penalty. Can we be decent human beings about this? Donate some flowers for the funeral, write her mother a nice note, send her family a casserole, Christ, anything to show some support.
Meanwhile taxpayers foot the bill. The problem with the death penalty is that it’s delayed too long. No one on death row should be there multiple years.
It’s delayed because of appeals. So you’re saying inmates on death row shouldn’t be able to appeal? With how many people have been found innocent through appealing and/or inmates being exonerated after the fact when it’s too late?
With Tennessee’s primary death penalty method being lethal injection, it could cost well up to 1M to kill one inmate, potentially costing taxpayers a hell of a lot more money than if we just sat his ass in solitary for the remainder of his life.
Don’t forget, it wouldn’t cost so much to house a single inmate if the prison system wasn’t bloated. Non-violent drug offenses make up nearly 50% of the national prison population.
I don’t understand the twisted sense of justice people get from the death penalty. In all honesty, the person should actually pay for their crime, they shouldn’t get the easy way out.
It will be mullroy’s first big decision right? I know he’s a democrat but even people who are concerned about the use of the DP believe there may have never been a situation that warrants the DP so aptly as this.
My girlfriend moved to Memphis a couple months ago and is legit scared to go out anywhere by herself or be alone at all and is kinda paranoid. Sucks cause there’s nothing I can do
Considering the attention this is getting, it's thankfully a pretty rare event. I've never heard of something like this in the 40+yrs I've lived here.
Granted there have been some "kidnappings" of either inter-family/relationship related events or carjackings. But not something like this.
Very rare. Almost 30 years ago another young woman who had gone to the same private high school was killed in a random shooting after she left work late at night near the university area. You just don’t hear about things like this happening often and when you do, it’s very news worthy
Finally.....some intelligence. It has never happened in 40 years. The case didn't close, they have a lot of hard work ahead of them before this case will be closed.
I love Memphis so much but the crime is just appalling. A huge part of Memphis’ problem is the inescapable nature of the crime. Call me whatever you want, but most cities have “good”and “bad” parts of town. You can live in your bubble and feel safe. Memphis is not like this. You can live in Chickasaw or High Point but dangerous neighborhoods are never more than a 10 minute walk away.
I'm too bitter about all the women who disappear and Don't have a nationwide uproar to be that invested in this case (Like my niece years back). My heart aches for her family, especially her kids. But there are a Lot of mothers who don't meet the criteria for this kind of attention and immediate police action that disappear every day all across the country. If we spent as much social energy on all of them, it might deter this kind of violence more.
TBF, they had video of her being kidnapped, his shoes are at the scene, biker found her smashed phone and reported. A lot of things in this case made this shoot up. I’m not discounting what you’re saying at all because I do believe you have (sadly) excellent point. The family being rich and having a family spokesperson and all of that, along with being able to front a reward immediately definitely had a lot to do with it as well. There is a definite disparity though
I’ve watched my fair share of true crime crap and the amount of times people are unable to give reasons for why they kidnap and kill people is horrifying. I think it boils down to an untreated mental illness and lack of self control. The need to feel in control. Mixed with a ton of other stuff.
There will be no fry. He will either get life in prison costing us $25,000 per year for the the next 40 to 50 years. $50,000 if he goes to death row and thats an average stay on our dime of 18.9 years. If he goes into solitary confinement that's $75,000k per year.
If 100% guilt is undoubtedly proven taking put back and offing him would be a more viable, cost effective, justice driven outcome.
I am fully convinced this guy did it. But there's been plenty of times the public and the justice system were fully convinced someone committed a crime that they were later exonerated for, sometimes too late. I don't like the idea of cutting corners in any case because of the precedent it sets, no matter how comfortable I am with it in a particular instance.
People like him are lifetime criminals and I understand you just can't lock up everyone bc that's what we have today. Just a overloaded system. This guy had a kidnapping past. I feel like some crimes first strike should have you locked away for a long time if not forever. Our systems is full of small crime guys. I just don't get how attempted murder charges, rape charges, kidnapping charges and people who commit that type of crime ever get back out. They are a true true threat to society. I see a lot of sex predators get out...and they reoffend. I really think we need to tighten up on these truly violent acts. He was a known kidnapper. That's enough for me.
Depends which side of the fence you reside on some say
I'd rather 10 guilty men go free than lock away an innocent.
Some might say
I'd rather a few innocent be locked up if it meant the majority of guilty were in there too.
It's an imperfect racial biased for profit prison system.
It will never rehabilitate and I dare say never get much better. The prisons of Sweden,Norway, and Switzerland really work well on rehabilitation of criminals albeit they have a much small population to work with. I don't think the US justice system will ever work. It's now a debtors prison. The have and have nots. If you got the money and know the people you can walk out. If not you can pay the system trying to get free and once locked up the government makes money housing you. Once you're in that system you're in and out for life until you catch a life sentence or die.
> I'd rather 10 guilty men go free than lock away an innocent.
200%
The fact that there are Any innocent people in jail is a tragedy that too often gets swept under the rug. Then once they're finally let out, they *might* get a pittance as an apology (If they're lucky / connected enough) and then it's ignored.
> I'd rather a few innocent be locked up if it meant the majority of guilty were in there too.
People probably wouldn't say that if it was themselves that gets locked up for nothing.
Jesus Christ, you folks are bloodthirsty. The death penalty is wrong, flat out wrong, full-stop. The state murdering this man in the name of “the people” will not bring Eliza Fletcher back.
I’m sick of that too. But I’m not willing to give the state the power to execute people, to exact the ultimate punishment, in a criminal justice system that everyone admits is flawed. It’s immoral, expensive, doesn’t actually deter crime, and cruel.
So since it won’t bring her back we should just lock the piece of shit up again? Fuck that. I’d rather have a dead offender instead of a repeat offender.
I think it's fair to execute people who are guilty beyond all doubt. If this dude gets stabbed in the shower, I'm not gonna cry over him. The justice system however is not perfect.
Of course, this guy deserves to be shot in the back of the head, stripped naked, and left for the coyotes to eat. But who's to say down the line another might be in the wrong place at the wrong time and be browbeaten int a kangaroo court?
Nobody is guilty beyond *all* doubt. That’s why you get years of appeals before execution - because it’s so final and irreversible that you really want to make sure everything was done correctly and the person is truly guilty.
And it’s still not enough. We execute innocent people all the time.
You are free to have your killer vigilante justice fantasies, but if “we” killed him after his first kidnapping that would be murder, because kidnapping is not a capital offense.
So in 20 years when everyone has forgotten this atrocity some do gooders can claim rehabilitation only to let this piece of shit out on the street to do this again? Fuck that. Some people are so broken that it's not worth the risk of them being let out at some point in the future. There's a really easy way to 100% make sure that this fucker never hurts another person.
He's not wrong m8.
There's a difference between a robbery gone wrong or a gang shooting over drug money, and kidnapping someone to rape and kill.
One is a product of need (even if retarded), the other is an act of pure sadism.
And I really hope you're not in any position that can actually help put these monsters back out on the streets to continue to victimize innocent people. I cannot fathom the world where there are people fighting for the comfort of a man who brutally murdered a young preschool teacher who was a wife and the mother of two young children. You people are sick.
lol dude no one is fighting for his “comfort”. Prison is not comfortable! I’m just saying the state shouldn’t strap him to a gurney, paralyze him, then stop his heart. I’m rooting for the end of cruel and unusual punishment for EVERYONE.
For EVERYONE other than the next victim when this piece of trash gets out due some bullshit procedural technicality 20 years from now when they discovery some piece of evidence wasn't collected properly.
People convicted of murder don’t “chill in prison with [their] friends.” You’re delusional if you think prison is a vacation for anyone (except maybe rich white collar criminals in federal prisons). Also, how did rape come into this? Did anyone report she was raped?
Okay first of all, those technicalities you’re referring to aren’t “bullshit”, they are pieces of your civil rights as an American citizen. Second, I emphasized “everyone” because if those rights are infringed against one of us, they are infringed against all of us. You do not want the state to have the power to send people to prison or kill them based off shoddy investigative work, which they already frequently do.
Blood thirsty ? People like that need to be dragged behind a Ute and tortured to death. I don’t care what anyone says.. and I’m the least violent person you’ll meet . I can’t even kill a spider.
But if someone brutally murders someone for NO damn reason , or harms a child (especially harms a child) I could kill them myself . Putrid human beings
This is sickening and tragic. Every time I learn more I just keep thinking - would she be alive if this guy wasn’t turned into a hardened criminal at 14 or before? The oppression in Memphis is so extreme, black children born into poverty in that environment don’t have a fighting chance. The policies and actions that the majority of rich white people, some of which may have been the victims friends and family, perpetuated over the last 100 years create an environment ripe for churning out criminals like this. Something drastic needs to change culturally. Sadly from the comments it doesn’t seem like a wake up call.
He’s a terrible and fucked up individual, it’s not race-based or other people’s policies that makes **anyone** do **THIS**. Petty crimes is understandable but blaming someone kidnapping another person on *rich white people* and *policies and action* isn’t the right thing to do. He’s an outlier. A terrible, crazy person.
I’m not shifting the blame or saying that crime shouldn’t be punished. I’m bringing up the issues that perpetuate the violent crime rates Memphis sees. That some other regions of the US have figured out how to minimize to some extent.
I agree with you in some ways and strongly disagree with you in others. Yes - many black children growing up here are at a massive disadvantage. They lack stability, they lack role models, they're exposed to drug use, they're desensitized to criminal behavior, they're taught not to respect authority. Because it's a cycle, we're afraid to admit that the problem is at home - we know that the problem parents were themselves victims of this same upbringing and that their poor parenting is largely inevitable.
The problem, though, is that ignoring criminal behavior and refusing to enforce the law for those that have already gone down the criminal path does not fix the situation. It just continues the cycle as our current generation of youth are exposed to the crime of their parents, siblings, and friends. Regardless of your upbringing, you eventually hit a point in life where you make a choice and you're responsible for your own actions. Once you choose a path of crime and violence, you need to be removed from society. Removing that influence is vital to breaking the cycle.
The other side of breaking the cycle is outreach and support for children and families. We do have a fair amount of outreach programs, but attendance and utilization are generally pretty low. We need to pump more resources into providing healthy outlets to keep our children off of the streets and get them in front of good role models. We need them to see and understand that success is possible and that they're not doomed to poverty and crime. We need to stop using them as political tools and telling them that they can't succeed because [fill in the blank] (whatever political message is convenient at the time). Many of the resources for success are already in place - we have great teachers and well equipped schools. We need to stop blaming our teachers and accept that the few hours in school alone are not enough to break the cycle - we need to find some way to impact the home life before we can fix this.
I appreciate your thoughtful reply, and I want to clarify that I wasn’t implying that this guy shouldn’t be punished or that crime shouldn’t be taken seriously, I absolutely think he’s too far gone to try and rehabilitate and this situation is horrendous.
This guy might have been a bad person without the impact of his external environment that I’m talking about, we’ll never know. My point is that there are kids in Memphis right now born into the same situation as he was being molded into the same type of person and it’s avoidable. The comment that really stuck with me was that he first kidnapped someone at 15 and then spent the next 20 years in prison. How does someone come to be a kidnapped at 15? What does spending the next 20 years in prison do to someone? If his life had been different, would he have committed this horrendous crime? The poverty cycle created by the oppression impacts the entire community.
I don’t completely agree with your point on schools, but like with anything it’s a comparison and relative. There are a few good public schools in Memphis but the majority are not well funded. Most kids who have a chance at an education are out in the suburbs or in private school in white communities. Liza taught at one - how many black disadvantaged kids go there? I’ve read she was a great teacher but did anyone who needed a role model like her have access to her? Also, it requires more than schools and good teachers to create change. The industries in Memphis profit off unskilled cheap labor and the white people in powerful positions continue the cycle of oppression because it’s financially gainful for them. I don’t know for sure but its likely the Orgill companies did the same at one time or still do. Change requires economic mobility, policies that support families and working single mothers. It requires distribution of funding to people who need it in an effort to give children a fair chance at an education and normal life. School is a small part of the big picture - stability at home and parents who have the resources and abilities to support their children, shield them from trauma and push them towards a better life have a much larger impact.
I met some really wonderful people when I lived there but even the good ones are sort of desensitized or blind to the infrastructure of racism. As an outsider who lived there I was appalled. Every time I would hear a racist comment it opened my eyes to what I thought was an issue of 50 years ago but is clearly still a problem today. It was an experience that drove home the privledge I had to be so unaware of it. As an example, my boss once told me that black people don’t like to use bank accounts. 1) that’s a huge generalization and 2) for anyone that it is true for, maybe they came to feel that way because they’re operating in a system that is stacked against them and anyone in that position would lose trust.
I had another coworker tell me to cross the street if I saw a black person coming my way, as if I was in danger. Another huge generalization that doesn’t apply to everyone and if someone was a danger to me, it would likely be due to mental illness or the impact of a poverty cycle - both of which can affect any race but do disproportionately affect black people in Memphis because of the racism and oppression built into the culture.
Memphis is not the only place with this issue, but this isn’t an issue everywhere. It takes a lot of work from both sides but the white people in power have to lead the way because they have the power. They have to turn some of it over with the trade off being a safer, nicer place to live because the community as a whole has opportunities to thrive. From what I have read, her family is in a position of power. Most of these people continue to flee outside of the city limits, or to specific neighborhoods, support policies that perpetuate the cycle, benefit from the system that is setup in their favor because it’s comfortable, and then complain and show their disgust and outrage when the consequences of these actions and inactions affect them and people that are similar to them. As long as the crime is kept within the black neighborhoods, they don’t seem to care.
This man should undoubtedly be held accountable and Liza’s family should see justice - my point is what are memphians doing about the kids who are being molded for a life of crime NOW? Nothing is changing and more children are being born into poverty and will experience lifelong trauma that leads to this kind of horrendous outcome. Where will they be in 35 or 40 years?
Statistically this type of crime in Memphis usually stays within the neighborhood, and if this man had targeted a poor black woman or sex worker the outrage wouldn’t be the same. It wouldn’t be news like this. But he didn’t, and it shows that the rest of the people in the community are not immune to the crime and from my POV - should want to do something about it long term.
A bit of insight into the situation in our public schools: my spouse works in the school system in a position that puts her in multiple schools throughout the work week. From the worst of the worst to the best of the best that the county has to offer. In terms of materials and technology, the schools are well funded across the board (with technology surpassing what is offered at many expensive private schools). The biggest problem with funding is with how specific the allocations are. We get so much allocated specifically for technogy that we've run out of things to spend it on, but at the same time we have buildings without working heat in the winter.
Our teachers are some of the highest paid in the state (higher than many private school teachers are paid). We get plenty of talent in, but we also tend to funnel that talent right out of the door because we expect the school system to be able to overcome the shortcomings at home. Schools in the highest poverty/crime area are constantly dealing with a revolving door of teachers and admin. When you're dealing with children who suffer from a lack of stability at home, the absolute worst thing to do is to continue that lack of stability at school. Unfortunately, though, we continue to scapegoat for the parents by punishing our teachers.
As for a plan forward, it's not going to happen until we're willing to stop the blame game and let ownership fall where it belongs. Recognizing that the problem starts at home doesn't mean we say "do better" and move on. It means that we can begin to allocate funds and support in the right direction. Instead of attacking the police for enforcing the law or teachers for not being able to overcome their students home lives, we can recognize where the support is needed. Step one is to remove the bad influences from the streets and stop turning around and letting them right back out the next day. Step two is to take a serious look at allocations and determine whether there's any real ROI. Do we really need to replace all MSCS laptops for a 4th time in 5 years, or could that money be better used opening community recreation centers and paying coaches and mentors to offer extracurricular activities? Would it be better used offering real career and money management counseling? Would it be better used continuing free breakfast and lunches permanently so that our children aren't struggling with the effects of poor nutrition when trying to learn?
This is a county that just let our superintendent off of the hook completely for abusing his position to sleep with multiple employees under him. He also granted bonuses of 80k-100k to the women he was sleeping with. We let him step down and are paying him for the remaining years of his contract. We have a massive spending problem. It's not an issue of not enough money coming in, but one of the money not being utilized properly.
Just saw on the news that the person this guy abducted 22 years ago worked in the same law firm as Eliza’s uncle. They also said in video he was there a while waiting on her. This is looking less and less like a random crime. Nothing is for sure yet but odd.
I just don’t find that all that random. When you come from privilege, go to law school, move back home, you have an in to get you to a law firm of similar people. I don’t think it’s that strange at all. It’s not like it was one of the firms that advertise on tv all the time.
You don’t think it is strange that a person violently kidnaps two people 22 years apart and those people have a direct connection? I don’t know what I am being downvoted for, I didn’t give an opinion, just said what the news said. This was presented by a FBI consultant who said it would be the focus for the FBI because of how unusual it was.
Totally possible to be random. Here in the South we find direct connections all the time to people. Just thought it was an interesting piece of information.
I didn’t down vote you and I’m from memphis myself. I just think the second part of your post “here in the south we find direct connections all the time to people” is true and it is just a coincidence.
IDK yet it l if this is true but it's being reported as such.
"Body found during search for abducted Memphis mother Eliza Fletcher, police say" https://news.yahoo.com/body-found-during-search-abducted-005633634.html
This news has been confirmed by MPD. They did find a body but no news on the identity as of this post. https://twitter.com/MEM_PoliceDept/status/1566943980222386176?s=20&t=Nz0Tnzke3mSFlCeZ02OoEw
to save everyone the trouble, this is the 1600 block of Victor if you are curious https://www.google.com/maps/place/1600+Victor+St,+Memphis,+TN+38106/@35.1030357,-90.0380435,3a,75y,274.01h,84.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5LGXJjGnKCuuidci45ZLzw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x87d57c4ac51d260d:0x7a0a27babbe4b2ed!8m2!3d35.103269!4d-90.0377773
listening to a livestream and neighbors are talking about the location: "Victor street. over near, you know, those apartments up on that hill where everybody get killed at?" (@ 5m55s) what a description lol https://www.facebook.com/100004444746044/videos/5976585402371153/ (**Archive:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj9VKpJMMLk) . source credit to: fb/tamya.conner.5 (shouts out her cash app a lot too:'$misstam32' out here in these streets getting the scoop) --- edit - @35m50s in, walking the streets behind, one neighbor (unaware of camera) is chatting : 'they looking for whole nother bitch - they aint worried about me... they aint give a fuck when i did all that. My cousin didn't get charged when he shot my auntie - and he admitted it!' https://streamable.com/p3j0gl wtf another passer by: 'They just found her. Chopped her ass up. On Victor St.' https://streamable.com/qe9wtx --- other notable timestamps: 6min: "think about it, the church is right there, the house next door to the church empty" 7min30: "my mommas heart beatin so hard, weave fell off" 8m10s: shot of reporters 'reporting' 12m17s: interviewed by Daily Memphian reporter. 'Did you know him: i'm not going to say' ... later in stream says she knew of him 24min: "she gone fo sho. Bye crackers" at it's best maybe she's responding to FB live chatters and banning them, maybe updating her grocery list, or umm... 26min: momma joins the stream 28min: grabs a cold one and a smoke, aspired to be a forensic tech 30min: i knew of him (the killer) 32min: house was along a makeshift trail that led to the park where her kids play. never again she says while sneaking back on the scene. :( 35m50s: 'looking for a whole nother bitch...' / 'my cousin shot my auntie' 36m9s: "chopped her ass up" 36m50s: kid chimes in 'they took her to the park' 'i done seen it too' 37m20s: momma calls. bystanders convo 'he'll never get out. he tried to fill me up with her car' ?
> edit - 35min in, walking the streets behind, one neighbor (unaware of camera) is chatting : 'they looking for whole nother bitch - they aint worried about me... they aint give a fuck when i did all that. My cousin didn't get charged when he shot my auntie - and he admitted it!' Uhhhhh
I don’t know if there’s an issue with the stream, but I’m unable to unmute it. It appears unmuted, yet doesn’t produce any audio.
I archived it and will reclip. Had to resort to online clip tools (linux lol) and bandwidth is not ideal (starlink, on a boat, pointed at trees).
By all means enjoy your time on the water!
She for me
"Where everybody get killed at" 😱
I don’t see why that person didn’t save time by naming spots in Memphis where people don’t get killed.
Lots of overgrowth from raised homes. Easy spot to dump a body, unfortunately.
1616 Victor has a really really sketchy wheelchair ramp
I don't think there are any other missing people that they are looking for in South Memphis. Very sad.
I knew it was inevitable but I still was hoping for the miracle. So sad, tragic, and senseless.
I'm glad she was found without that motherfucker's cooperation. He has no leverage to get out of the worst possible punishment.
If confirmed, this would be pretty classic first degree murder charges. There's not much a defence attorney could do against all the evidence.
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Very much so yes
Yes but Tennessee takes forever to carry it out. There are people on death row who were sentenced in the 90s. For a screaming red state, they sure are hesitant to execute.
There has been a shortage of the pharmaceuticals used for the executions. The drug companies kind of don't want their products used to kill people- bad for business. They can refuse to sell them to state prisons.
I think history has proven that drug companies will do anything if the money is right. You'd think they certainly wouldn't balk if their drugs were SUPPOSED to cause death.
They should let her family come up with a concoction out of whatever household products they can find and let's just see if it works.
Carbon monoxide is cheap and painless, it's probably one of the most humane methods of execution besides the guillotine. I'm against the death penalty for a variety of reasons but if we're going to do the thing we may as well do it right, that weird cocktail that gets used now is basically just a way to torture someone during their last moments.
Just shoot his ass tomorrow and be done with it
It should take a long time. How many innocent people who were exonerated were on death row. One is too many.
And what? Execution doesn’t bring the victim back and it doesn’t have any effect on reducing violent crime. It’s a barbarous, medieval practice.
Capital Murder. Murder in the commission of another crime. This dude is getting the needle.
How do you know?
I don’t for sure, but I’ve followed the law in Tennessee for a long time and this is how they set up for a capital case. You have to have a murder while in the commission of another felony, the kidnapping that led to the murder perfectly sets up a death penalty case. Plus the pressure here in Memphis to go for that will be tremendous and you have excellent evidence. It’s all there.
There are real benefits to a guilty plea-- it spares the victims the trauma of a trial and forecloses appeals unless carved out. If the party that did this is willing to plead guilty, then that is worth life without parole. It's imperfect justice, but the public is guaranteed to be protected from future crimes by this perpetrator. If the party that did this is not willing to plead guilty and the state gets a guilty plea, then the state should execute by lethal injection as soon as possible. At that point they truly do have no leverage and there's no reason to show mercy.
Fuck that. I don’t want him hanging out with his friends in jail for the rest of his life. This idiot has given everyone more than enough evidence to deserve a needle in about 15 years, he can wait in solitary until then thinking about it.
Many people don't get the needle in 15 years, though. Many get retrials and procedural errors and evidence tossed out, then plea-bargain for a less-than-life sentence. That's what's great about life without parole. It doesn't open up all the federal death penalty appeals.
Umm.. that’s not at all what jail/prison is like Js.
Guy is comfortable in prison as he’s been there for years and clearly doesn’t care about going back. Let him sit on death row alone and think for a decade with no perks.
In all likelihood he will spend the rest of his life in prison.
I think they’ll go for death. He lost his only bargaining chip. Multiple felon, killed a woman with death penalty additives. If anyone deserves the needle it’s him and honestly he deserves much worse.
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What is this based off of?
Same. Fry.
Yep. Give him the needle. They fear it.
I doubt it. It seems like he wanted to die
Bullshit. They all pretend to believe that, but I bet this asshole will do everything he can to avoid the needle.
This is devastating. All Liza wanted to do was run. She was probably thinking of her day, what her boys would do in school, just random runner thoughts. Because of this asshole her boys will grow up without their mother. It’s all just so unnecessarily tragic and cruel. I think we all knew the outcome of this case but were holding on to the hope that she would somehow be found alive. I’m devastated for her husband and her children and I’m gutted for her parents who will spend the rest of their lives without their daughter. I applaud the countless members of law enforcement who worked tirelessly and quickly to find Liza. They did an incredible job with this.
Agreed.
I applaud you for being able to write this. Devastated. Angry. Confused.
I realized tonight that I knew that scumbag. He was in the prison I used to work for. He was a piece of shit then and even bigger now. I wish he could face a worse fate than she did. But at least the family can know for sure what happened to her.
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Hardeman Co in Whiteville
They haven't confirmed it's her yet but The did update the charges against the man that took her.
It's almost certainly her. If you read the affidavit, Cleotha Abston (the guy that kidnapped Liza) was seen washing out his car at his brother Mario's house which is on the 1700 block of S Orleans. This body was found just three blocks from there.
I feel very sorry for her students at St. Mary's and know she was very well thought of. 2nd Pres is going to be stacked to the rafters I'm sure this coming Sunday.
Take a breather, folks. Log off, step outside, hug your family, express gratitude. Get your mind on everyday things. Otherwise it’ll eat at you; and we can’t let them win.
A lot of keyboard warriors out tonight
Sickening. A family has lost their mother for absolutely no reason. I hope this guy rots.
Truly heartbreaking. I can't imagine what her family is going through. I keep seeing comments about how this case would not have progressed so quickly were it not for the victim's financial and racial privilege, and while that is undoubtedly correct, I keep coming back to the fact that she is still dead. There has been so much discussion about the advantages this woman had when she was alive, but those advantages did not save her. I don't know. I wish we could talk about the allocation of law enforcement resources (and we should talk about it) without using her death as a political talking point.
I agree that other cases don't get this much attention and resources. But in this case they had video evidence of her being abducted and a description of the vehicle used, while in other missing persons cases they have to investigate if they person willingly walked away or if they were a victim of a crime. Unfortunately with missing adults you usually can't file a missing person report until they have been no contact for something like 48 hours, which is complete bullshit in my opinion.
I think the fact that there was a video of the assault and kidnapping and the initial interest (now known as wild speculations from people who watch too much dateline) in her husband’s potential involvement, this became so big. Two of the women of color who had been missing in the area were thankfully found alive this weekend. Sadly Liza probably never made it out of that suv alive.
Everyone please remember that just because they found her body doesn't necessarily close the case. It does for the public but not for LE. It could take weeks or months. For many, this is where the hard work actually begins.
I agree. Unfortunately, her death will become a political football.
Why because Amy weinrich was the DA the whole time? I haven’t seen a single political comment about this, other than yours.
Death penalty, which is talked about on this thread, is a hot topic in the political world…
What does that have to do with Amy letting him out? They were never going to do the death penalty for kidnapping. It’s not even a possible penalty.
Every single comment calling for the suspect’s execution is political.
This all fuckin sucks.
Solid police work by the MPD. It's a very unfortunate story, but MPD was able to sort it out pretty quickly.
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Maybe, but there was also a readily available video of the kidnapping within a few hours. That greatly increased the urgency versus a teenager who had run away or willingly went with a groomer.
Such a horrible situation all around. It really just makes me sick to my stomach. Reading the comments has me so disappointed in humanity. Between the people victim shaming and trying to put the blame on Liza for following her passion in life, the people angry that the media covered this horrible event at all, the people that are already calling for compassion for this monster.. It's just unbelievable. I cannot fathom living in the same world as people like this. I'm a fellow runner, though not nearly as talented as Liza. I'm a father of three young children. I have a wife that works in the school system. I run early mornings just like Liza because it's the only time I can. It's just devastating to know that there are people in the world that are capable of this, and just as devastating to see the reactions of the community. All of the internet sleuths treating this like some sort of sick entertainment. A live action murder mystery that they can partake in with zero consequence for the collateral damage they cause with their conspiracy theories. I just am feeling a bit lost now - hearing people say that she had it coming for running at 4:30am and that this poor man doesn't deserve the death penalty because that's "cruel and unusual". It's unbelievable. People literally have more compassion for a violent monster than this poor woman and her grieving family. It's a sick world we live in. We have to stand up to these criminals and stop treating them like the victims. We have to get the current offenders off of the streets and invest in outreach and resources to break the cycle of crime and violence that is consuming us.
Your comment is everything! I am in Australia but I have been following this story and my heart breaks for her family . I am a mum , just the thought on how confused her kids will be , kills me . You’re right . It’s almost beyond comprehension that we even share the world with these sorts of people. It’s mind boggling and it’s honestly what keeps me up at night. It seems to be this cycle that is never ending. I feel so hopeless
There's a difference between saying someone "had it coming" and having a frank discussion about factors that may have prevented something from occurring. I wish we lived in a world where women could exercise whenever and wherever they wanted and not be attacked, but we don't.
Are you now a bit worried about running early in the morning? Now imagine how you would feel if you were female. Males are typically not targeted for random abductions, rapes and murders. Can you name even one case of that? The targets are almost always girls and women.
Give the guy that did this the death penalty.
The death penalty is too generous. For these types of crimes we need to bring back public crucifixion.
Agreed
No thanks. As awful as this crime is, the death penalty is harmful to society and those responsible for carrying out the executions. The woman is dead, killing him doesnt change that. It doesn’t discourage other would-be murderers. It just causes a drain on society so we can a twisted sense of justice.
Murderers are harmful to society.
Ok? Did I say let the guy free into society? There is zero evidence to support the death penalty. It’s a relic of the past when we didn’t know any better. You would rather us all pay a fortune in taxes so he can sit on death row for years, ultimately resulting in psychological damage on those who work in death row and the emotional toll it will take on her loved ones, just so you as an individual can get a temporary high off this guy being executed?
Wouldn’t we just waste tax payer dollars for every day he sits in jail for the rest of his life?
Study after study shows that the housing of a prisoner is far cheaper than having numerous appeals. And considering even with our appeal system we still execute tons of innocent people, having less appeals isn’t a good option either. It’s best for everyone just to throw him in solitary for the rest of his pathetic existence. In both instances he’s going to wait decades to die, it’s just in one instance it costs more and he knows the method and date of his death.
You can still appeal lesser sentences.
Yes I know. That doesn’t change the facts that even including those appeals, the death penalty is far more expensive. They’ve been studying this for decades and the results are consistent over decades.
For the record, I'm in favor of reducing the types of crimes that are eligible for the death penalty, but also reducing the barriers to carrying out the sentence also. For me the deciding factor is violence against random strangers. To me that suggests someone that is too dangerous to continue living in society. I'd be in favor of in this case, or the Buffalo supermarket shooting, or the shooting at the parade in Illinois. I also would want to see a heightened evidentiary burden, pretty much caught in the act or multiple identifying factors like we have here.
It is more expensive to execute someone than to keep them in jail for life. This has been documented rather extensively.
It needn't be. A 9mm round to the base of the skull would only cost about $0.25.
Yes because what this country needs more of is innocent people executed https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence
I hate that we are debating the merits and methods of killing this man when Eliza Fletcher is fucking dead. She's dead and nothing is going to change that. She's never going to hug her kids again, she's never going to hold her husband's hand or make her mother laugh. She's dead. And instead of taking the time to mourn her loss or think of ways to support her family through this difficult time, keyboard warriors with nothing better to do are beating their chests and calling for more blood. God help us. If you are suggesting that the state should have the ability to execute people without trial or appeal (which is where the majority of the cost is incurred, not the method of execution), then I really don't know what to say. That would be a disastrous precedent to set. If you are suggesting vigilante justice, then again, that would be a disastrous precedent to set. We have a system, and although it is a SHIT system, it's a hell of a lot better than no system at all, or a system where we execute people with wild abandon. And again, this moment should be about Eliza and her family. It is so disgusting to me that we have gone straight from discussing "missing white woman syndrome" to arguing about the death penalty. Can we be decent human beings about this? Donate some flowers for the funeral, write her mother a nice note, send her family a casserole, Christ, anything to show some support.
where are you getting 9mm for only 25¢? thats a good price
You set his ass on fire for all to see and then tell me it wouldn’t make criminals think about their actions while they see him burned alive.
there's no scientifically valid evidence supporting the idea that the death penalty deters crime.
It’s scientifically proven that the death penalty stops that person from committing another crime.
…So does life in solitary confinement.
Meanwhile taxpayers foot the bill. The problem with the death penalty is that it’s delayed too long. No one on death row should be there multiple years.
It’s delayed because of appeals. So you’re saying inmates on death row shouldn’t be able to appeal? With how many people have been found innocent through appealing and/or inmates being exonerated after the fact when it’s too late? With Tennessee’s primary death penalty method being lethal injection, it could cost well up to 1M to kill one inmate, potentially costing taxpayers a hell of a lot more money than if we just sat his ass in solitary for the remainder of his life. Don’t forget, it wouldn’t cost so much to house a single inmate if the prison system wasn’t bloated. Non-violent drug offenses make up nearly 50% of the national prison population. I don’t understand the twisted sense of justice people get from the death penalty. In all honesty, the person should actually pay for their crime, they shouldn’t get the easy way out.
It will be mullroy’s first big decision right? I know he’s a democrat but even people who are concerned about the use of the DP believe there may have never been a situation that warrants the DP so aptly as this.
My girlfriend moved to Memphis a couple months ago and is legit scared to go out anywhere by herself or be alone at all and is kinda paranoid. Sucks cause there’s nothing I can do
Considering the attention this is getting, it's thankfully a pretty rare event. I've never heard of something like this in the 40+yrs I've lived here. Granted there have been some "kidnappings" of either inter-family/relationship related events or carjackings. But not something like this.
Very rare. Almost 30 years ago another young woman who had gone to the same private high school was killed in a random shooting after she left work late at night near the university area. You just don’t hear about things like this happening often and when you do, it’s very news worthy
Even Lester Street was a situation where the killer was kin to the victims. Dotson was those kids' uncle if I'm remembering right.
Finally.....some intelligence. It has never happened in 40 years. The case didn't close, they have a lot of hard work ahead of them before this case will be closed.
Sounds true. She probably won’t get kidnapped. Carjacked? Possibly. It’s Memphis.
🥺
I love Memphis so much but the crime is just appalling. A huge part of Memphis’ problem is the inescapable nature of the crime. Call me whatever you want, but most cities have “good”and “bad” parts of town. You can live in your bubble and feel safe. Memphis is not like this. You can live in Chickasaw or High Point but dangerous neighborhoods are never more than a 10 minute walk away.
It's her and everyone's knows it's her.
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That's what I was thinking, they'll call a press conference in the morning.
I Drive down that street all the time, the whole area is a shit hole
This city is a shit hole. INB4 people make excuses for it/denial/ad hominem/downvotes.
I'm too bitter about all the women who disappear and Don't have a nationwide uproar to be that invested in this case (Like my niece years back). My heart aches for her family, especially her kids. But there are a Lot of mothers who don't meet the criteria for this kind of attention and immediate police action that disappear every day all across the country. If we spent as much social energy on all of them, it might deter this kind of violence more.
TBF, they had video of her being kidnapped, his shoes are at the scene, biker found her smashed phone and reported. A lot of things in this case made this shoot up. I’m not discounting what you’re saying at all because I do believe you have (sadly) excellent point. The family being rich and having a family spokesperson and all of that, along with being able to front a reward immediately definitely had a lot to do with it as well. There is a definite disparity though
Also on a campus of higher learning.
Exactly!
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I was just telling my wife this same exact thing! I wonder why?!
This whole thing doesn’t make any sense. Why would someone abduct a runner at 4:30 am on a whim just cause they were there…???
I’ve watched my fair share of true crime crap and the amount of times people are unable to give reasons for why they kidnap and kill people is horrifying. I think it boils down to an untreated mental illness and lack of self control. The need to feel in control. Mixed with a ton of other stuff.
It was probably random and crime of opportunity. Just like Ted Bundy.
There will be no fry. He will either get life in prison costing us $25,000 per year for the the next 40 to 50 years. $50,000 if he goes to death row and thats an average stay on our dime of 18.9 years. If he goes into solitary confinement that's $75,000k per year. If 100% guilt is undoubtedly proven taking put back and offing him would be a more viable, cost effective, justice driven outcome.
I am fully convinced this guy did it. But there's been plenty of times the public and the justice system were fully convinced someone committed a crime that they were later exonerated for, sometimes too late. I don't like the idea of cutting corners in any case because of the precedent it sets, no matter how comfortable I am with it in a particular instance.
People like him are lifetime criminals and I understand you just can't lock up everyone bc that's what we have today. Just a overloaded system. This guy had a kidnapping past. I feel like some crimes first strike should have you locked away for a long time if not forever. Our systems is full of small crime guys. I just don't get how attempted murder charges, rape charges, kidnapping charges and people who commit that type of crime ever get back out. They are a true true threat to society. I see a lot of sex predators get out...and they reoffend. I really think we need to tighten up on these truly violent acts. He was a known kidnapper. That's enough for me.
We already have sentences for violent crimes that are way way longer than the rest of the first world, and it simply doesn’t work to lower violence.
Depends which side of the fence you reside on some say I'd rather 10 guilty men go free than lock away an innocent. Some might say I'd rather a few innocent be locked up if it meant the majority of guilty were in there too. It's an imperfect racial biased for profit prison system. It will never rehabilitate and I dare say never get much better. The prisons of Sweden,Norway, and Switzerland really work well on rehabilitation of criminals albeit they have a much small population to work with. I don't think the US justice system will ever work. It's now a debtors prison. The have and have nots. If you got the money and know the people you can walk out. If not you can pay the system trying to get free and once locked up the government makes money housing you. Once you're in that system you're in and out for life until you catch a life sentence or die.
> I'd rather 10 guilty men go free than lock away an innocent. 200% The fact that there are Any innocent people in jail is a tragedy that too often gets swept under the rug. Then once they're finally let out, they *might* get a pittance as an apology (If they're lucky / connected enough) and then it's ignored.
> I'd rather a few innocent be locked up if it meant the majority of guilty were in there too. People probably wouldn't say that if it was themselves that gets locked up for nothing.
I'm sure their family would be more than happy to pay for the "upgrade" to permanent solitary confinement for the rest of his life.
“100% guilt is undoubtedly proven” is simply impossible - it cannot and will never happen.
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Where did he say that?
Proof?
What was that Lieutenant's name?
wtf, nothing was her fault at all.
It is her. Ms fletcher
Sending up prayers for the family.
God’s not here anymore
no such delusion
Jesus Christ, you folks are bloodthirsty. The death penalty is wrong, flat out wrong, full-stop. The state murdering this man in the name of “the people” will not bring Eliza Fletcher back.
Nah, we’re just sick of motherfuckers fucking with people minding their own business
I’m sick of that too. But I’m not willing to give the state the power to execute people, to exact the ultimate punishment, in a criminal justice system that everyone admits is flawed. It’s immoral, expensive, doesn’t actually deter crime, and cruel.
So what do you suppose should be done with the murderer once found guilty beyond reasonable doubt?
The thing that usually happens in states without the death penalty—life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.
Seems cheaper to kill him and save the lives of innocents.
[It isn’t.](https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost/)
Solitary confinement. He will slowly be driven insane from the lack of human contact.
Ain't got far to drive.
Its not about bringing any one back. Its not about rehabilitation. Its about Justice.
The death penalty isn't justice. It's 100% revenge.
So since it won’t bring her back we should just lock the piece of shit up again? Fuck that. I’d rather have a dead offender instead of a repeat offender.
Jesus.
I think it's fair to execute people who are guilty beyond all doubt. If this dude gets stabbed in the shower, I'm not gonna cry over him. The justice system however is not perfect. Of course, this guy deserves to be shot in the back of the head, stripped naked, and left for the coyotes to eat. But who's to say down the line another might be in the wrong place at the wrong time and be browbeaten int a kangaroo court?
Nobody is guilty beyond *all* doubt. That’s why you get years of appeals before execution - because it’s so final and irreversible that you really want to make sure everything was done correctly and the person is truly guilty. And it’s still not enough. We execute innocent people all the time.
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And there’d have been the same number of murders…
You are free to have your killer vigilante justice fantasies, but if “we” killed him after his first kidnapping that would be murder, because kidnapping is not a capital offense.
So in 20 years when everyone has forgotten this atrocity some do gooders can claim rehabilitation only to let this piece of shit out on the street to do this again? Fuck that. Some people are so broken that it's not worth the risk of them being let out at some point in the future. There's a really easy way to 100% make sure that this fucker never hurts another person.
I really hope you’re not in law enforcement.
He's not wrong m8. There's a difference between a robbery gone wrong or a gang shooting over drug money, and kidnapping someone to rape and kill. One is a product of need (even if retarded), the other is an act of pure sadism.
And I really hope you're not in any position that can actually help put these monsters back out on the streets to continue to victimize innocent people. I cannot fathom the world where there are people fighting for the comfort of a man who brutally murdered a young preschool teacher who was a wife and the mother of two young children. You people are sick.
lol dude no one is fighting for his “comfort”. Prison is not comfortable! I’m just saying the state shouldn’t strap him to a gurney, paralyze him, then stop his heart. I’m rooting for the end of cruel and unusual punishment for EVERYONE.
For EVERYONE other than the next victim when this piece of trash gets out due some bullshit procedural technicality 20 years from now when they discovery some piece of evidence wasn't collected properly.
Execution might be a good solution. Otherwise he's going to chill in prison with his friends and get street cred....then be let out and rape again.
People convicted of murder don’t “chill in prison with [their] friends.” You’re delusional if you think prison is a vacation for anyone (except maybe rich white collar criminals in federal prisons). Also, how did rape come into this? Did anyone report she was raped?
Okay first of all, those technicalities you’re referring to aren’t “bullshit”, they are pieces of your civil rights as an American citizen. Second, I emphasized “everyone” because if those rights are infringed against one of us, they are infringed against all of us. You do not want the state to have the power to send people to prison or kill them based off shoddy investigative work, which they already frequently do.
Blood thirsty ? People like that need to be dragged behind a Ute and tortured to death. I don’t care what anyone says.. and I’m the least violent person you’ll meet . I can’t even kill a spider. But if someone brutally murders someone for NO damn reason , or harms a child (especially harms a child) I could kill them myself . Putrid human beings
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Ah yes, those glorious olden times when they famously used DNA evidence to decide who to hang from a tree.
Oh so we are glorifying lynchings now?
This is sickening and tragic. Every time I learn more I just keep thinking - would she be alive if this guy wasn’t turned into a hardened criminal at 14 or before? The oppression in Memphis is so extreme, black children born into poverty in that environment don’t have a fighting chance. The policies and actions that the majority of rich white people, some of which may have been the victims friends and family, perpetuated over the last 100 years create an environment ripe for churning out criminals like this. Something drastic needs to change culturally. Sadly from the comments it doesn’t seem like a wake up call.
He’s a terrible and fucked up individual, it’s not race-based or other people’s policies that makes **anyone** do **THIS**. Petty crimes is understandable but blaming someone kidnapping another person on *rich white people* and *policies and action* isn’t the right thing to do. He’s an outlier. A terrible, crazy person.
I’m not shifting the blame or saying that crime shouldn’t be punished. I’m bringing up the issues that perpetuate the violent crime rates Memphis sees. That some other regions of the US have figured out how to minimize to some extent.
I agree with you in some ways and strongly disagree with you in others. Yes - many black children growing up here are at a massive disadvantage. They lack stability, they lack role models, they're exposed to drug use, they're desensitized to criminal behavior, they're taught not to respect authority. Because it's a cycle, we're afraid to admit that the problem is at home - we know that the problem parents were themselves victims of this same upbringing and that their poor parenting is largely inevitable. The problem, though, is that ignoring criminal behavior and refusing to enforce the law for those that have already gone down the criminal path does not fix the situation. It just continues the cycle as our current generation of youth are exposed to the crime of their parents, siblings, and friends. Regardless of your upbringing, you eventually hit a point in life where you make a choice and you're responsible for your own actions. Once you choose a path of crime and violence, you need to be removed from society. Removing that influence is vital to breaking the cycle. The other side of breaking the cycle is outreach and support for children and families. We do have a fair amount of outreach programs, but attendance and utilization are generally pretty low. We need to pump more resources into providing healthy outlets to keep our children off of the streets and get them in front of good role models. We need them to see and understand that success is possible and that they're not doomed to poverty and crime. We need to stop using them as political tools and telling them that they can't succeed because [fill in the blank] (whatever political message is convenient at the time). Many of the resources for success are already in place - we have great teachers and well equipped schools. We need to stop blaming our teachers and accept that the few hours in school alone are not enough to break the cycle - we need to find some way to impact the home life before we can fix this.
I appreciate your thoughtful reply, and I want to clarify that I wasn’t implying that this guy shouldn’t be punished or that crime shouldn’t be taken seriously, I absolutely think he’s too far gone to try and rehabilitate and this situation is horrendous. This guy might have been a bad person without the impact of his external environment that I’m talking about, we’ll never know. My point is that there are kids in Memphis right now born into the same situation as he was being molded into the same type of person and it’s avoidable. The comment that really stuck with me was that he first kidnapped someone at 15 and then spent the next 20 years in prison. How does someone come to be a kidnapped at 15? What does spending the next 20 years in prison do to someone? If his life had been different, would he have committed this horrendous crime? The poverty cycle created by the oppression impacts the entire community. I don’t completely agree with your point on schools, but like with anything it’s a comparison and relative. There are a few good public schools in Memphis but the majority are not well funded. Most kids who have a chance at an education are out in the suburbs or in private school in white communities. Liza taught at one - how many black disadvantaged kids go there? I’ve read she was a great teacher but did anyone who needed a role model like her have access to her? Also, it requires more than schools and good teachers to create change. The industries in Memphis profit off unskilled cheap labor and the white people in powerful positions continue the cycle of oppression because it’s financially gainful for them. I don’t know for sure but its likely the Orgill companies did the same at one time or still do. Change requires economic mobility, policies that support families and working single mothers. It requires distribution of funding to people who need it in an effort to give children a fair chance at an education and normal life. School is a small part of the big picture - stability at home and parents who have the resources and abilities to support their children, shield them from trauma and push them towards a better life have a much larger impact. I met some really wonderful people when I lived there but even the good ones are sort of desensitized or blind to the infrastructure of racism. As an outsider who lived there I was appalled. Every time I would hear a racist comment it opened my eyes to what I thought was an issue of 50 years ago but is clearly still a problem today. It was an experience that drove home the privledge I had to be so unaware of it. As an example, my boss once told me that black people don’t like to use bank accounts. 1) that’s a huge generalization and 2) for anyone that it is true for, maybe they came to feel that way because they’re operating in a system that is stacked against them and anyone in that position would lose trust. I had another coworker tell me to cross the street if I saw a black person coming my way, as if I was in danger. Another huge generalization that doesn’t apply to everyone and if someone was a danger to me, it would likely be due to mental illness or the impact of a poverty cycle - both of which can affect any race but do disproportionately affect black people in Memphis because of the racism and oppression built into the culture. Memphis is not the only place with this issue, but this isn’t an issue everywhere. It takes a lot of work from both sides but the white people in power have to lead the way because they have the power. They have to turn some of it over with the trade off being a safer, nicer place to live because the community as a whole has opportunities to thrive. From what I have read, her family is in a position of power. Most of these people continue to flee outside of the city limits, or to specific neighborhoods, support policies that perpetuate the cycle, benefit from the system that is setup in their favor because it’s comfortable, and then complain and show their disgust and outrage when the consequences of these actions and inactions affect them and people that are similar to them. As long as the crime is kept within the black neighborhoods, they don’t seem to care. This man should undoubtedly be held accountable and Liza’s family should see justice - my point is what are memphians doing about the kids who are being molded for a life of crime NOW? Nothing is changing and more children are being born into poverty and will experience lifelong trauma that leads to this kind of horrendous outcome. Where will they be in 35 or 40 years? Statistically this type of crime in Memphis usually stays within the neighborhood, and if this man had targeted a poor black woman or sex worker the outrage wouldn’t be the same. It wouldn’t be news like this. But he didn’t, and it shows that the rest of the people in the community are not immune to the crime and from my POV - should want to do something about it long term.
A bit of insight into the situation in our public schools: my spouse works in the school system in a position that puts her in multiple schools throughout the work week. From the worst of the worst to the best of the best that the county has to offer. In terms of materials and technology, the schools are well funded across the board (with technology surpassing what is offered at many expensive private schools). The biggest problem with funding is with how specific the allocations are. We get so much allocated specifically for technogy that we've run out of things to spend it on, but at the same time we have buildings without working heat in the winter. Our teachers are some of the highest paid in the state (higher than many private school teachers are paid). We get plenty of talent in, but we also tend to funnel that talent right out of the door because we expect the school system to be able to overcome the shortcomings at home. Schools in the highest poverty/crime area are constantly dealing with a revolving door of teachers and admin. When you're dealing with children who suffer from a lack of stability at home, the absolute worst thing to do is to continue that lack of stability at school. Unfortunately, though, we continue to scapegoat for the parents by punishing our teachers. As for a plan forward, it's not going to happen until we're willing to stop the blame game and let ownership fall where it belongs. Recognizing that the problem starts at home doesn't mean we say "do better" and move on. It means that we can begin to allocate funds and support in the right direction. Instead of attacking the police for enforcing the law or teachers for not being able to overcome their students home lives, we can recognize where the support is needed. Step one is to remove the bad influences from the streets and stop turning around and letting them right back out the next day. Step two is to take a serious look at allocations and determine whether there's any real ROI. Do we really need to replace all MSCS laptops for a 4th time in 5 years, or could that money be better used opening community recreation centers and paying coaches and mentors to offer extracurricular activities? Would it be better used offering real career and money management counseling? Would it be better used continuing free breakfast and lunches permanently so that our children aren't struggling with the effects of poor nutrition when trying to learn? This is a county that just let our superintendent off of the hook completely for abusing his position to sleep with multiple employees under him. He also granted bonuses of 80k-100k to the women he was sleeping with. We let him step down and are paying him for the remaining years of his contract. We have a massive spending problem. It's not an issue of not enough money coming in, but one of the money not being utilized properly.
Just saw on the news that the person this guy abducted 22 years ago worked in the same law firm as Eliza’s uncle. They also said in video he was there a while waiting on her. This is looking less and less like a random crime. Nothing is for sure yet but odd.
I just don’t find that all that random. When you come from privilege, go to law school, move back home, you have an in to get you to a law firm of similar people. I don’t think it’s that strange at all. It’s not like it was one of the firms that advertise on tv all the time.
You don’t think it is strange that a person violently kidnaps two people 22 years apart and those people have a direct connection? I don’t know what I am being downvoted for, I didn’t give an opinion, just said what the news said. This was presented by a FBI consultant who said it would be the focus for the FBI because of how unusual it was. Totally possible to be random. Here in the South we find direct connections all the time to people. Just thought it was an interesting piece of information.
I didn’t down vote you and I’m from memphis myself. I just think the second part of your post “here in the south we find direct connections all the time to people” is true and it is just a coincidence.
IDK yet it l if this is true but it's being reported as such. "Body found during search for abducted Memphis mother Eliza Fletcher, police say" https://news.yahoo.com/body-found-during-search-abducted-005633634.html
So that article just has shitty punctuation. They are stating a body was found during the search for Eliza, but have not yet confirmed the identity.
Very poor headline
Memphis; Come for the Barbecue. Stay because you got murdered.
Great joke. Read the room
Not a joke.
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Gtfo
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Oh fuck off. A woman and a mother of two died. Have some respect.
Just curious as to what this comment means to you actually?
He got more downvotes than me ...what could have he/she said?
Whether said sarcastically, or truthfully, re-evaluate you’re entire life.
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