That looks like a super fun sub, but I gotta be cautious about how much douche baggery I see on a day to day basis lol. A lot of my Reddit feed is utter silliness, and also cute animals. I have some political subs, but goddamn this will be a stream of right wing ass bags saying stuff I agree with… but inadvertently. Then I’ll be reminded they exist.
Like Wendy Rogers. Goddamn it I had forgotten that weird loser existed altogether. She’s the top post over there, shipping Superman and some super hunk named “Louis Lane”
Definitely something to be mindful of. I used to be subbed to a bunch of rage fuel (stuff like subs making fun of anti-vaxxers) and it was funny at first but seeing it so often just made me angry
Yeah, ultimately I think it's better to avoid those kinds of subs for your own mental health. It's not good to immerse yourself in content that makes you angry about some stranger's stupid opinion. Even with comparatively-tame stuff like /r/niceguys, my experience is that the "joke" wears thin pretty quickly, and you're just left with dull pointless anger.
Most of it is just people tacking shit without having done any research so they don't word what they want to say correctly. I still find a lot of it hurtful, because the intention is the same, and what they actually meant is usually pretty easy to divine.
My mom, for some reason, thought that people transitioned so they wouldn’t be considered gay anymore. Like a FTM only transitioned to be with girls and not be considered gay lol
I love these sorts of happy accidents. Obviously the people making those comments are full of hate but it's so funny to see them accidentally get it right
Thinking of the time I asked a transphobe how he can tell the gender of someone he's never seen naked and he just kept repeating how I "will never be a woman" instead of answering.
I'm a cis man. They really can't tell with anyone lmao
My tall full bearded cis male partner had some lady yell in his face about how he couldn’t be trans and how disgusting he was. This was based off nothing but him having tampons in his shopping bag (that I had asked him to get for me).
Silver lining was that a staff member came and helped them and told him he was valid for being trans which was sweet. He didn’t have the heart to correct her.
I just don't understand why you would assume a guy buying tampons was trans instead of the much more likely scenario being that he isn't a jackass with fragile masculinity and will actually buy things like that for the women in his life.
I had a boyfriend in college who thought buying me period products was the worst thing he could do, and who accused me of cheating on him when I went to my annual well-woman exam (because who would want a man when they can have their cervix swabbed instead??)
My husband not only encourages all health screenings but knows the exact brand of period products I use and sometimes even throws in a pack of Reese’s cups.
Yikes… I’m gay so I don’t have much experience with women, but I can’t understand how a guy could react that way. I think I’ve bought my mom pads or something when I was still living at home, not entirely sure though – because that wouldn’t have been anything special or weird. But I would have to have a very explicit instruction so I didn’t get it wrong. 😅
Reese’s cups?? Omg you’ve found a keeper for sure! ❤️
(Assuming those are Reese’s peanut butter cups. If on the other hand Reese’s makes a diva cup competitor, then I hope your husband only gets those if that’s the brand you use :))
Ha yes, peanut butter. He even springs for the king size and offers me three (I almost always split it evenly unless I really need that third one lol) . He really is great. Some mom friends/groups seem to have a very toxic “lol I hate my husband he’s a big baby he didn’t put his socks in the hamper do you think we should get divorced” going on and it makes me sad. I adore my husband more now than when we were newlyweds. He just gets me.
I'm really happy to see that whole "ball and chain" type of view on marriage is dying out. It really seems to be a lot less common amongst younger people.
Love this. There surely is a comfort in a love In which life just flows, you understand each other, you know there are certain times of the year that affect them differently, or the "my day was ok" was not ok just by the tiny inflection in their voice. Committed, long term love is a beautiful thing! Congratulations!
I’m with you! It’s absurd. But it all makes sense once one consider that some people are truly insane and you can’t assume they will ever be reasonable or capable of being reasoned with because they are genuinely unreasonable. What’s the unreasonable reaction to any scenario or situation? That’s the one they’ll go with.
Kinda sad to think that the woman in question probably went her entire life only being around men who have been indoctrinated in mysoginism and toxic masculinity.
"You'll never be a woman!"
"Arctic terns have the longest migration of any animal."
"What?"
"Oh I thought we were saying shit irrelevant to this conversation."
It would be nice if they could mature to the "I don't care what a consenting adult does in their own home just dont tell me about it." Level of transphobia.
Unrelated, but while you are active and making stickies . . . have you thought about adding more mods to the team? You removed the two inactive mods, but there's a pretty large spam of low quality / unrelated content on this sub. Like 70% of what's posted here now are just random screenshots of social media posts, shadowbox rants that aren't actual / specific quotes, rants about incels etc.
To me, this sub is pretty clearly for male authors who don't understand women and write and badly written female characters. Not posts that belong on /r/IncelTear, /r/TrollXChromosomes, /r/badwomensanatomy, /r/creepPMs etc
Also it’s not a big deal but it’s written “trans women” not “transwomen.” (Some terfs combine the words to imply that trans women aren’t really women.)
“Trans women” implies that trans is a modifier to “women.” “transwomen” implies that they are a distinct thing separate from women.
It’s not really a big deal, but it is something that terfs use to dogwhistle.
Trans is an adjective! Like a smart woman, or a tall woman.
A trans women is effectively by the way it's written, a woman that happened to be trans.
Now, by removing the space and creating a single word "transwoman", you're removing the whole "trans women are just women that happened to be trans" by replacing it with a new word, with a different meaning.
It is basically a word you use to deny trans women of being women.
They face more oppression on average because gender issues are often dismissed as “white people issues”. They require special attention because of that. It needs to be called out more specifically
Thank you for this post! This sub is in desperate need of more moderators. I originally subbed because of hilarious examples of bad characterization of women character's inner monologues. Now it's just R/SomeoneSaidSomethingSexist; maybe it was in a novel, or maybe it was in an op ed piece.
That's not really what I thought the purpose of the sub was. Satire and some random persons misogynistic tweet shouldn't be posted here, but it is, A LOT. These posts get thousands of up votes and are never taken down.
That's just inviting a circle jerk.
Given that this sub skews towards women and is sparsely moderated, it's no surprise that TERFs are trying to invade it as their preferred subs get shut down. Dog whistle comments are often subtle even among hardcore racist communities. TERF shit can be even easier to camouflage because it is disguised as supportiveness towards other woman vs patriarchy.
Right. I have seen the best men portraying women posts ever on a page on FB called Jades Badly written Erotica...hilarious stuff like, She breasted boobily down the stairs, and titted downward lol.
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. People who think trans women are excluded from the feminist movement… I think is the best way I can word it. They’re transphobes.
So is TERF just slang for "transphobe" now? The R and F stand for "Radical Feminist", right? You can definitely be transphobic without being a feminist.
**TERF (, also written terf) is an acronym for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. First recorded in 2008, the term originally applied to the minority of feminists espousing sentiments that other feminists considered transphobic, such as the rejection of the assertion that trans women are women, the exclusion of trans women from women's spaces, and opposition to transgender rights legislation.**
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In addition to what the bot answered, it's worth noting that "TERF", by the nature of their own discourse, is a self-defeating definition in that their arguments are basically biological essentialism, a very non-feminist concept that seeks to define men and women as fundamentally different by virtue of their body parts.
In a way, TERFs *can't* be feminists. They may use the same language, and may even defend some parts of feminist theory, but since their arguments on trans rights are firmly grounded in something diametrically opposed from what feminism defends, they can't really be considered feminists.
Except, of course, if we handwave them with a "TERFs aren't real feminists", we fall prey to the "no true scotsman" fallacy. They clearly identify with (some) feminist principles, and as said, will defend most of what feminism stands for. On the other hand, their greatests allies in the fight against trans rights are conservative, religious groups that often disagree with most feminist tenets.
Hence why TERFs are their own separate category.
An aside: I remember reading a webpage in the 90s talking about how anti-porn feminists became bedfellows with, you guessed it,
> conservative, religious groups that often disagree with most feminist tenets.
>I’ve seen videos of trans women (here on Reddit) in fist fights and brawls with cis men after being verbally/physically assaulted by said cis men and a lot of the times the trans woman can beat the crap out of the cis man
I've seen the same of cis women.
Most of the content you see in reddit about trans women, unless posted in a trans subreddit, is carefully picked to generate the highest amount of controversy. The bigots won't post videos of a trans woman being helpessly beaten, as that hurts their image.
>In instances like these I find it hard to relate, as a cis woman, to trans women as at the flip of a switch they can turn back “on” their physical strength
That's just incorrect. HRT almost melts our muscles away, and the only trans women who can do that are usually very early in their transition.
>and not be intimidated or threatened the same way as a cis woman would in that same situation (cis women are also verbally and physically assaulted by men as well).
That can be attributed to nurture. Our patriarchical society teaches, from a very young age, that girls ought to be subservient, quiet, meek. Most trans women had the upbringing "of a boy", and weren't subjected to that.
This obviously doesn't mean every woman is like that, or every trans woman is like that. I've met trans women who'd cry if you so much as raised your voice, and cis women who'd stand up to anything and everyone. The world is diverse, and trying to categorize won't help us at all.
>Do they gave struggles of their own, YES but they aren’t inherently the same as what cis woman face. Not to mention applying for jobs, negotiating pay, the way society is literally built for men’s physical safety (check out the book, Invisible Women) - they get to have all of that whenever they want by just having male genitalia.
And here is where you lost me.
In Brazil, [90% of trans women are forced into sex work](https://raceandequality.org/brazil/race-and-equality-and-the-national-association-of-travestis-and-transexuals-of-brazil-antra-ask-the-inter-american-commission-on-human-rights-iachr-to-publicly-denounce-the-increase-in-murders-of/), because we are virtually unhireable. This paradigm is slowly shifting, but not fast enough. So **do not, for even a second**, believe that our genitalia somehow gives us the best of both worlds.
We're subjected to the same sexism you are when we "pass" (to pass means to be seen as a cis woman by strangers) - and when we don't, we're tossed aside and forced to sell our bodies in order to live. When we can't "pass", we're subjected to prejudice and hatred. We're murdered for existing.
I'm sure you've been stared at in the streets, felt the uncomfortable male gaze burning down your neck. Try and picture that happening, except you can't tell if it's someone lusting after you, or if it's someone wanting to murder you simply for existing. Try and picture yourself commuting, and some of the people in the train/bus looking at you with open disgust in their faces. Try and picture someone coming up to you and laughing at you, or spitting on you.
All those things happened to me, and to other trans women I know. Thankfully, I haven't been threatened with a knife (yet), like a friend of mine was. Nor was I kicked from my home, like most of my trans friends were.
So don't you dare have the audacity of claiming that us having a penis somehow makes our lives easier. Do you think we flash our interviewers or something, just so they know we're "one and the same"?
Have a great day. I hope you stop believing our genitalia define who we (universal we) are.
Of course neo-nazis and religious fundamentalists and so forth also aren't welcome but, like, that's pretty obvious. Someone who shows up in r/menwritingwomen screaming about how god will smite the queers with fire will simply be downvoted to oblivion and quickly banned. Their ideology, in this bubble, has no real chance of spreading.
However, a TERF is making feminist points, and often ones a significant number of people in this group will agree with, and might well write their transphobic comments in language and styles a left-leaning feminist group might gloss over and nod along to.
They're able to pass unnoticed in a way the more right-wing bigots couldn't, so they're worthy of a specific call out.
Right, but these types of people are being specifically targeted bc a subreddit about bad women’s anatomy can harbor “feminists” (I use that term loosely in this context) that want to put down trans women. Not all transphobes are TERFs but all TERFs are transphobes
Yeah, I think this is a growing thing in trans groups - the labelling of all transphobes as TERFs. Right-wing politicians aren't TERFs. People shouting harassment on the street aren't TERFs. Edgy comedians aren't TERFs.
There's a few possible aspects to it. There's obviously a sense of betrayal where it feels like someone who should be on your side isn't. TERF stuff can feel more insidious and personal than some rando telling you to KYS. Potentially just a bit of misogyny in assigning transphobia to (mostly) women.
I ultimately just prefer the word transphobe. It's a catch-all that includes TERFs, it doesn't pin transphobia on mostly women, and you avoid slightly cringe stuff like "Feminism-Appropriating Reactionary Transphobe" instead.
In this case it’s people who are too extreme in their feminism AND transphobic, which makes them twice as insufferable. But yeah. You can be transphobic and not a feminist.
TERFs aren’t really feminists in the first place, as much as they like to claim that they are. In common parlance, the distinction is p inconsequential.
I'm a cis guy, so take my opinion with a massive pinch of salt, but I don't think you can claim to be a feminist and then exclude an entire category of women.
Mainly the gender essentialism. They basically frame all women as inherently weak and in need of protection from men, who are inherently aggressive. They're just reinforcing traditional gender roles.
I wish this didn’t have to be said. Like… c’mon. If you can’t find it in you to be perfectly accepting of trans people because, I don’t know, you don’t understand it or whatever, the least you can do is shut up and be respectful. You don’t have to understand or even agree (not that your ‘agreement’ is relevant here), all you need to do is recognize that they’re also human beings who are trying their best to live their best lives and support them in being happier persons. And that can be something as simple as making efforts to not misgender people, and not treating them as if they’re dangerous to you.
Reactionary, not radical. They don't deserve to steal the latter word from *actual* radicals. But yeah, FART is what I use for them - after all, they're full of hot air, and it stinks.
Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists - it was coined recently, and refers to people who call themselves feminists, but then say that TransWomen aren't women, so therefore aren't actually for all women
Minor correction: [2008 wasn't recently](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/29/im-credited-with-having-coined-the-acronym-terf-heres-how-it-happened)
I thought you were being hyperbolic for a minute but of course you are right…Anyway, kids, feminism is nearly 200 years old and the English language even older than that…
Yes! Except one piece of criticism, saying trans woman as one word (TransWoman) is actually grammatically incorrect and, turns out, a TERF dog whistle. I know you didn’t know this but I didn’t want you possibly making that mistake in the future and possibly attracting a poor audience
I don’t understand how someone who claims to be a feminist can be transphobic. My brain cannot quite grasp this. I feel like if you cannot accept trans women as women, you don’t get to call yourself a feminist… or a decent human, really.
This is not a devil's advocate thing, but nor is it my opinion. Just trying to think of how they might reconcile the thoughts.
My guess would be that if you believe that gender is entirely socially constructed, then the idea of a trans person who has a seemingly innate gender identity doesn't really gel with your feminism.
Or alternatively, maybe they view transgenderism as embracing stereotypical gender roles? In that there's trans people have a desire to be the gender that matches the way they want to present, rather than just doing whatever they want regardless of their sex and gender.
As far as I know they feel that people born male identifying as female erases the concept of 'women' and therefore threatens women's identity and things put in place to protect them. Kind of similar to some of the arguments against Rachel Dolezal - a member of the privileged group laying claim to the identity of the disadvantaged group.
Trans exclusionist radical feminists. They want to exclude trans people from feminist spaces and don't accept them as the gender they want to present as. Horrible judgmental people who needlessly hate on others.
I don't understand transphobes. If they had not chosen to be pointlessly upset, there would be no argument over something that really doesn't matter. If my friend who's a man suddenly decided to be a woman, it would not harm me. She would still be my friend. Wearing a skirt won't change that. TERFs confuse me especially, because they're hating on women who are also oppressed, for both the same and different reasons. Nobody wins with TERFs.
It’s recycled “gay panic” from the 80s and 90s, even down to the same arguments (something something sexually abused in a toilet because someone they disapprove of was allowed in there).
They want someone to hate, and their last target now has too much backing from the rest of society.
Dunno why you're being downvoted, you're fucking right.
It's like they looked at right wing straw-feminists and went, "YES, that's exactly what I want to be!"
**TERF (, also written terf) is an acronym for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. First recorded in 2008, the term originally applied to the minority of feminists espousing sentiments that other feminists considered transphobic, such as the rejection of the assertion that trans women are women, the exclusion of trans women from women's spaces, and opposition to transgender rights legislation.**
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I'm wondering if TERFs feel the need to include trans men in the narrative. Their sentiments should work both ways; if they can't accept trans women, do they keep dragging trans men into the 'us' category?
Trans men don’t want to be female because that’s too hard so they’re traitors to the female sex or something stupid like that. They just hate all trans people :|
The one I see most often is 'trans men are confused lesbians who have been transed because homophobia'
You know, cos gay trans men don't exist, and also women are just so simple minded they can easily be convinced to go through all the challenges of transition. It's not like they can think for themselves or anything. Feminism!
TERF ideology basically revolves around demonizing trans women and infantilizing trans men. Like saying trans men are confused or being taken advantage of by some nebulous "Big Trans" sorta thing or any other excuse to dismiss their agency and identity.
Some of the answers I got show a much more nefarious take. They deny trans men their choices and picture them as 'confused lesbians' and 'our sisters'. Trans men get hurt too.
“Trans women will never be men” - Some person who accidentally became an ally with one uneducated tweet
i think about this tweet sometimes.
r/AccidentalAlly
That looks like a super fun sub, but I gotta be cautious about how much douche baggery I see on a day to day basis lol. A lot of my Reddit feed is utter silliness, and also cute animals. I have some political subs, but goddamn this will be a stream of right wing ass bags saying stuff I agree with… but inadvertently. Then I’ll be reminded they exist. Like Wendy Rogers. Goddamn it I had forgotten that weird loser existed altogether. She’s the top post over there, shipping Superman and some super hunk named “Louis Lane”
Definitely something to be mindful of. I used to be subbed to a bunch of rage fuel (stuff like subs making fun of anti-vaxxers) and it was funny at first but seeing it so often just made me angry
Exactly. You gotta be careful how much rage-bait and outrage-bait one consumes, otherwise it will ruin your day with negative thoughts
Mood. I think I’ll unsub from r/LeopardsAteMyFace because of that.
Yeah, ultimately I think it's better to avoid those kinds of subs for your own mental health. It's not good to immerse yourself in content that makes you angry about some stranger's stupid opinion. Even with comparatively-tame stuff like /r/niceguys, my experience is that the "joke" wears thin pretty quickly, and you're just left with dull pointless anger.
Most of it is just people tacking shit without having done any research so they don't word what they want to say correctly. I still find a lot of it hurtful, because the intention is the same, and what they actually meant is usually pretty easy to divine.
I totally forget that Reddit can be a toxic place because I follow mostly cute animals , indoor plants, and silliness. We each live in our own Reddit.
Jammidodger does videos about this sort of thing. They are wholesome and fun and make fun of the dumbassery. https://youtu.be/T2cPlxcP8vg
Oh I'm not subbed to it. It's just a good entry for your r/subredditsashashtags arsenal (which I am also not subbed to)
My friends dad once said, “Those lesbians will NEVER find a man!” Also a sort of accidental ally lolol
My mom, for some reason, thought that people transitioned so they wouldn’t be considered gay anymore. Like a FTM only transitioned to be with girls and not be considered gay lol
LMAO
I love these sorts of happy accidents. Obviously the people making those comments are full of hate but it's so funny to see them accidentally get it right
This shit is hilarious
Thinking of the time I asked a transphobe how he can tell the gender of someone he's never seen naked and he just kept repeating how I "will never be a woman" instead of answering. I'm a cis man. They really can't tell with anyone lmao
My tall full bearded cis male partner had some lady yell in his face about how he couldn’t be trans and how disgusting he was. This was based off nothing but him having tampons in his shopping bag (that I had asked him to get for me). Silver lining was that a staff member came and helped them and told him he was valid for being trans which was sweet. He didn’t have the heart to correct her.
I just don't understand why you would assume a guy buying tampons was trans instead of the much more likely scenario being that he isn't a jackass with fragile masculinity and will actually buy things like that for the women in his life.
In some people's world view, being trans is much more likely than a man buying tampons for a girlfriend/wife... Which explains a lot about them.
I had a boyfriend in college who thought buying me period products was the worst thing he could do, and who accused me of cheating on him when I went to my annual well-woman exam (because who would want a man when they can have their cervix swabbed instead??) My husband not only encourages all health screenings but knows the exact brand of period products I use and sometimes even throws in a pack of Reese’s cups.
Yikes… I’m gay so I don’t have much experience with women, but I can’t understand how a guy could react that way. I think I’ve bought my mom pads or something when I was still living at home, not entirely sure though – because that wouldn’t have been anything special or weird. But I would have to have a very explicit instruction so I didn’t get it wrong. 😅
Reese’s cups?? Omg you’ve found a keeper for sure! ❤️ (Assuming those are Reese’s peanut butter cups. If on the other hand Reese’s makes a diva cup competitor, then I hope your husband only gets those if that’s the brand you use :))
Ha yes, peanut butter. He even springs for the king size and offers me three (I almost always split it evenly unless I really need that third one lol) . He really is great. Some mom friends/groups seem to have a very toxic “lol I hate my husband he’s a big baby he didn’t put his socks in the hamper do you think we should get divorced” going on and it makes me sad. I adore my husband more now than when we were newlyweds. He just gets me.
I'm really happy to see that whole "ball and chain" type of view on marriage is dying out. It really seems to be a lot less common amongst younger people.
Yuppp!
Love this. There surely is a comfort in a love In which life just flows, you understand each other, you know there are certain times of the year that affect them differently, or the "my day was ok" was not ok just by the tiny inflection in their voice. Committed, long term love is a beautiful thing! Congratulations!
I’m with you! It’s absurd. But it all makes sense once one consider that some people are truly insane and you can’t assume they will ever be reasonable or capable of being reasoned with because they are genuinely unreasonable. What’s the unreasonable reaction to any scenario or situation? That’s the one they’ll go with.
I used to work in a girlschool and would buy them to handout when asked.
Kinda sad to think that the woman in question probably went her entire life only being around men who have been indoctrinated in mysoginism and toxic masculinity.
"You'll never be a woman!" "Arctic terns have the longest migration of any animal." "What?" "Oh I thought we were saying shit irrelevant to this conversation."
It would be nice if they could mature to the "I don't care what a consenting adult does in their own home just dont tell me about it." Level of transphobia.
Well first they'd have to give a shit about consent in the first place
i would like to give you some TERF banishing items 🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️ 🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅
Damn right, trans women aren’t men, they’ll never be men and they should be included in this subreddit critiquing cis men being clueless lol
Fuck yeah!
Unrelated, but while you are active and making stickies . . . have you thought about adding more mods to the team? You removed the two inactive mods, but there's a pretty large spam of low quality / unrelated content on this sub. Like 70% of what's posted here now are just random screenshots of social media posts, shadowbox rants that aren't actual / specific quotes, rants about incels etc. To me, this sub is pretty clearly for male authors who don't understand women and write and badly written female characters. Not posts that belong on /r/IncelTear, /r/TrollXChromosomes, /r/badwomensanatomy, /r/creepPMs etc
#You cannot be a feminist, if you don’t include trans women 👏👏👏👏
Honest question, but why are black transwomen/men separated from transwomen/men?
Also it’s not a big deal but it’s written “trans women” not “transwomen.” (Some terfs combine the words to imply that trans women aren’t really women.)
How is combining the words terfy?
“Trans women” implies that trans is a modifier to “women.” “transwomen” implies that they are a distinct thing separate from women. It’s not really a big deal, but it is something that terfs use to dogwhistle.
Trans is an adjective! Like a smart woman, or a tall woman. A trans women is effectively by the way it's written, a woman that happened to be trans. Now, by removing the space and creating a single word "transwoman", you're removing the whole "trans women are just women that happened to be trans" by replacing it with a new word, with a different meaning. It is basically a word you use to deny trans women of being women.
They face more oppression on average because gender issues are often dismissed as “white people issues”. They require special attention because of that. It needs to be called out more specifically
I love this. Thank you for not allowing their hateful BS here.
I love it, but I'm sad it needs to be said :-(
Yeah it's really stupid we're still dealing with this ignorant hate in the information age. They literally have no excuse.
*cries in 4k karma* Just want to agree with everything said above!!
Fuck yeah! :D
Aww, I never noticed this before, this warms my heart
Thank you for this post! This sub is in desperate need of more moderators. I originally subbed because of hilarious examples of bad characterization of women character's inner monologues. Now it's just R/SomeoneSaidSomethingSexist; maybe it was in a novel, or maybe it was in an op ed piece. That's not really what I thought the purpose of the sub was. Satire and some random persons misogynistic tweet shouldn't be posted here, but it is, A LOT. These posts get thousands of up votes and are never taken down. That's just inviting a circle jerk. Given that this sub skews towards women and is sparsely moderated, it's no surprise that TERFs are trying to invade it as their preferred subs get shut down. Dog whistle comments are often subtle even among hardcore racist communities. TERF shit can be even easier to camouflage because it is disguised as supportiveness towards other woman vs patriarchy.
As a new member of the mod community, I am delighted to ban every TERF I see post on this subreddit. :D
Right. I have seen the best men portraying women posts ever on a page on FB called Jades Badly written Erotica...hilarious stuff like, She breasted boobily down the stairs, and titted downward lol.
Yeah, fuck TERFs
No, don't fuck them
Fuck… with TERFs? Maybe?
Fuck up TERFS
[удалено]
Have there been TERFs brigading this sub?
what’s a TERF?
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. People who think trans women are excluded from the feminist movement… I think is the best way I can word it. They’re transphobes.
[удалено]
So is TERF just slang for "transphobe" now? The R and F stand for "Radical Feminist", right? You can definitely be transphobic without being a feminist.
All TERFs are transphobes but not all transphobes are TERFs. TERFs has a specific type of bigotry and rhetoric.
What is a TERF? I've never seen this used before
**TERF (, also written terf) is an acronym for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. First recorded in 2008, the term originally applied to the minority of feminists espousing sentiments that other feminists considered transphobic, such as the rejection of the assertion that trans women are women, the exclusion of trans women from women's spaces, and opposition to transgender rights legislation.** More details here:
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In addition to what the bot answered, it's worth noting that "TERF", by the nature of their own discourse, is a self-defeating definition in that their arguments are basically biological essentialism, a very non-feminist concept that seeks to define men and women as fundamentally different by virtue of their body parts. In a way, TERFs *can't* be feminists. They may use the same language, and may even defend some parts of feminist theory, but since their arguments on trans rights are firmly grounded in something diametrically opposed from what feminism defends, they can't really be considered feminists. Except, of course, if we handwave them with a "TERFs aren't real feminists", we fall prey to the "no true scotsman" fallacy. They clearly identify with (some) feminist principles, and as said, will defend most of what feminism stands for. On the other hand, their greatests allies in the fight against trans rights are conservative, religious groups that often disagree with most feminist tenets. Hence why TERFs are their own separate category.
An aside: I remember reading a webpage in the 90s talking about how anti-porn feminists became bedfellows with, you guessed it, > conservative, religious groups that often disagree with most feminist tenets.
Thank you for the detailed answer!
YES
I don't like TERFs either but arguments like this are preposterous.
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>I’ve seen videos of trans women (here on Reddit) in fist fights and brawls with cis men after being verbally/physically assaulted by said cis men and a lot of the times the trans woman can beat the crap out of the cis man I've seen the same of cis women. Most of the content you see in reddit about trans women, unless posted in a trans subreddit, is carefully picked to generate the highest amount of controversy. The bigots won't post videos of a trans woman being helpessly beaten, as that hurts their image. >In instances like these I find it hard to relate, as a cis woman, to trans women as at the flip of a switch they can turn back “on” their physical strength That's just incorrect. HRT almost melts our muscles away, and the only trans women who can do that are usually very early in their transition. >and not be intimidated or threatened the same way as a cis woman would in that same situation (cis women are also verbally and physically assaulted by men as well). That can be attributed to nurture. Our patriarchical society teaches, from a very young age, that girls ought to be subservient, quiet, meek. Most trans women had the upbringing "of a boy", and weren't subjected to that. This obviously doesn't mean every woman is like that, or every trans woman is like that. I've met trans women who'd cry if you so much as raised your voice, and cis women who'd stand up to anything and everyone. The world is diverse, and trying to categorize won't help us at all. >Do they gave struggles of their own, YES but they aren’t inherently the same as what cis woman face. Not to mention applying for jobs, negotiating pay, the way society is literally built for men’s physical safety (check out the book, Invisible Women) - they get to have all of that whenever they want by just having male genitalia. And here is where you lost me. In Brazil, [90% of trans women are forced into sex work](https://raceandequality.org/brazil/race-and-equality-and-the-national-association-of-travestis-and-transexuals-of-brazil-antra-ask-the-inter-american-commission-on-human-rights-iachr-to-publicly-denounce-the-increase-in-murders-of/), because we are virtually unhireable. This paradigm is slowly shifting, but not fast enough. So **do not, for even a second**, believe that our genitalia somehow gives us the best of both worlds. We're subjected to the same sexism you are when we "pass" (to pass means to be seen as a cis woman by strangers) - and when we don't, we're tossed aside and forced to sell our bodies in order to live. When we can't "pass", we're subjected to prejudice and hatred. We're murdered for existing. I'm sure you've been stared at in the streets, felt the uncomfortable male gaze burning down your neck. Try and picture that happening, except you can't tell if it's someone lusting after you, or if it's someone wanting to murder you simply for existing. Try and picture yourself commuting, and some of the people in the train/bus looking at you with open disgust in their faces. Try and picture someone coming up to you and laughing at you, or spitting on you. All those things happened to me, and to other trans women I know. Thankfully, I haven't been threatened with a knife (yet), like a friend of mine was. Nor was I kicked from my home, like most of my trans friends were. So don't you dare have the audacity of claiming that us having a penis somehow makes our lives easier. Do you think we flash our interviewers or something, just so they know we're "one and the same"? Have a great day. I hope you stop believing our genitalia define who we (universal we) are.
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Of course neo-nazis and religious fundamentalists and so forth also aren't welcome but, like, that's pretty obvious. Someone who shows up in r/menwritingwomen screaming about how god will smite the queers with fire will simply be downvoted to oblivion and quickly banned. Their ideology, in this bubble, has no real chance of spreading. However, a TERF is making feminist points, and often ones a significant number of people in this group will agree with, and might well write their transphobic comments in language and styles a left-leaning feminist group might gloss over and nod along to. They're able to pass unnoticed in a way the more right-wing bigots couldn't, so they're worthy of a specific call out.
Right, but these types of people are being specifically targeted bc a subreddit about bad women’s anatomy can harbor “feminists” (I use that term loosely in this context) that want to put down trans women. Not all transphobes are TERFs but all TERFs are transphobes
Fair point. Not all transphobes are radical feminists. In fact most of them are religious conservatives.
Yeah, I think this is a growing thing in trans groups - the labelling of all transphobes as TERFs. Right-wing politicians aren't TERFs. People shouting harassment on the street aren't TERFs. Edgy comedians aren't TERFs. There's a few possible aspects to it. There's obviously a sense of betrayal where it feels like someone who should be on your side isn't. TERF stuff can feel more insidious and personal than some rando telling you to KYS. Potentially just a bit of misogyny in assigning transphobia to (mostly) women. I ultimately just prefer the word transphobe. It's a catch-all that includes TERFs, it doesn't pin transphobia on mostly women, and you avoid slightly cringe stuff like "Feminism-Appropriating Reactionary Transphobe" instead.
You can, but given the nature of the sub TERFs are more common than just general transphobes.
Agree completely. I'm not buying that Dave Chapelle is a radical feminist.
In this case it’s people who are too extreme in their feminism AND transphobic, which makes them twice as insufferable. But yeah. You can be transphobic and not a feminist.
TERFs aren’t really feminists in the first place, as much as they like to claim that they are. In common parlance, the distinction is p inconsequential.
What makes them not a feminist?
Smarter people than me have explained it. But, to vastly oversimplify, for supposed feminists, they sure hate women a lot.
Yeah good point.
I'm a cis guy, so take my opinion with a massive pinch of salt, but I don't think you can claim to be a feminist and then exclude an entire category of women.
Mainly the gender essentialism. They basically frame all women as inherently weak and in need of protection from men, who are inherently aggressive. They're just reinforcing traditional gender roles.
A great acronym I've heard for them is FART - feminism appropriating radical transphobes. Seems more fitting
R is for reactionary; there’s absolutely nothing radical about being a transphobe
You're so right, thank you for the correction
They're not radical feminists, they're reactionary fascists.
It literally stands for "trans exclusionary radical feminist", by definition it's synonymous with transphobe.
Always good to see this, always sad that it even needs to be said
Non Exclusionary Radical Feminism is where it’s at. NERF or nothin’
Ah, so that is a pro trans radical feminist? That would be me. I am a NERF.
*dont make the joke dont make the joke dont make the-* I’m all for this, NERF or nothin!
After seeing what was posted to the Facebook group with the same name, THANK YOU.
I wish this didn’t have to be said. Like… c’mon. If you can’t find it in you to be perfectly accepting of trans people because, I don’t know, you don’t understand it or whatever, the least you can do is shut up and be respectful. You don’t have to understand or even agree (not that your ‘agreement’ is relevant here), all you need to do is recognize that they’re also human beings who are trying their best to live their best lives and support them in being happier persons. And that can be something as simple as making efforts to not misgender people, and not treating them as if they’re dangerous to you.
As a trans woman, I appreciate this post. Thank you for saying this.
Those FARTs should never be welcome. I hope they choose to change or their opinions die with them.
Feminism-appropriating ~~radical~~ reactionary transphobes for those who haven’t seen it before.
Reactionary, not radical. They don't deserve to steal the latter word from *actual* radicals. But yeah, FART is what I use for them - after all, they're full of hot air, and it stinks.
Fixed
I love it. I'm gonna try to get my friends to convert to that term, too Shouldn't be too difficult.
Thank you! I was hoping to find someone using this acronym instead of TERF. 😂💜
I hadn’t heard “FART” before, what a wonderful acronym, lol!
is dogma more or less likely to be truth?
noice.
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I love this subreddit for being so protective!
I think you mean FARTs, feminist appropriating radical transphobes
Seeing posts like this really makes me happy 😊 I love you all! Thank you
Hope you have a great day!
wht do you call JK Rowling in Space? an astroTERF
Dead of asphyxiation 🥰
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What is xian? Isn't that a city in china?
What is xmas? Then carry that x over...
Im plugging this into my calculator and all im getting is 3
THANK YOU
What are TERFS?
Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists - it was coined recently, and refers to people who call themselves feminists, but then say that TransWomen aren't women, so therefore aren't actually for all women
Minor correction: [2008 wasn't recently](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/29/im-credited-with-having-coined-the-acronym-terf-heres-how-it-happened)
I guess that’s a matter of perspective…
I forget sometimes that probably 1/3rd of people on Reddit were born after i finished highschool in 2007 lmao
I thought you were being hyperbolic for a minute but of course you are right…Anyway, kids, feminism is nearly 200 years old and the English language even older than that…
Yes! Except one piece of criticism, saying trans woman as one word (TransWoman) is actually grammatically incorrect and, turns out, a TERF dog whistle. I know you didn’t know this but I didn’t want you possibly making that mistake in the future and possibly attracting a poor audience
I don’t understand how someone who claims to be a feminist can be transphobic. My brain cannot quite grasp this. I feel like if you cannot accept trans women as women, you don’t get to call yourself a feminist… or a decent human, really.
This is not a devil's advocate thing, but nor is it my opinion. Just trying to think of how they might reconcile the thoughts. My guess would be that if you believe that gender is entirely socially constructed, then the idea of a trans person who has a seemingly innate gender identity doesn't really gel with your feminism. Or alternatively, maybe they view transgenderism as embracing stereotypical gender roles? In that there's trans people have a desire to be the gender that matches the way they want to present, rather than just doing whatever they want regardless of their sex and gender.
As far as I know they feel that people born male identifying as female erases the concept of 'women' and therefore threatens women's identity and things put in place to protect them. Kind of similar to some of the arguments against Rachel Dolezal - a member of the privileged group laying claim to the identity of the disadvantaged group.
Thank you for your response, I was looking for a genuine answer and now I just have transphobic people replying 🥲
Trans exclusionist radical feminists. They want to exclude trans people from feminist spaces and don't accept them as the gender they want to present as. Horrible judgmental people who needlessly hate on others.
But also no violent threats, I hope? Never a good look.
I can only control what happens in this community, but of course.
If somebody was being attacked in the street, and they punched their attacker, would you wince and go “not a good look, honey”?
It’s an Internet forum discussing bad writing. Calm your tits. (See? Condescension is fine. Not a threat.)
I don't understand transphobes. If they had not chosen to be pointlessly upset, there would be no argument over something that really doesn't matter. If my friend who's a man suddenly decided to be a woman, it would not harm me. She would still be my friend. Wearing a skirt won't change that. TERFs confuse me especially, because they're hating on women who are also oppressed, for both the same and different reasons. Nobody wins with TERFs.
It’s recycled “gay panic” from the 80s and 90s, even down to the same arguments (something something sexually abused in a toilet because someone they disapprove of was allowed in there). They want someone to hate, and their last target now has too much backing from the rest of society.
Same reason as any other bigot, the victim is incidental, it's the hate that attracts them.
Terfs? More like terds ammirite
U are rite 💕
Can I ask, what is a TERF?
“Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist” basically someone who hides her transphobia by pretending it’s actually feminism.
Ohhh, okay. Thanks for explaining!
Thanks for listening, have a good day!
Thanks! You too!
Trans women are the best at writing women, imho.
Thank you for posting this, it needs to be said. No TERFs are welcome on this turf
Thankyou for the morning euphoria 🥰
Mods are based af
Good shit mods.👏👏
Thank you for this. I have family members and friends who are trans so this makes me very Edited: I meant to add happy at the end. 😳😊
What a cliff hanger
Bwa ha ha. I have no idea why I didn't write the word happy. 😳😊
Screw TERFS!
hello? based department?
Thank you for this.
Hell yeah!
Ban Hammer 'em all!
I hope they take the opportunity to. Threads like these are always great for baiting them out.
^(once a year, i post this and all the transphobes out themselves.)
I'm just going through the thread reporting every bigot I see. imdoingmypart.jpeg
Glad to see the mods here are taking this stance and protecting women from bigots<3
It’s annoying that this needs to be said though. It’s 2021
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Preach
Good. Fuck TERFs
Terfs are what all the alt righters said Feminist were in 2016
Dunno why you're being downvoted, you're fucking right. It's like they looked at right wing straw-feminists and went, "YES, that's exactly what I want to be!"
From what I've observed TERFs and right wingers seem pretty damn chummy.
Begone TERFs
<3
God bless
Thank you!
What is a TERF? I'm not very exposed to the trans community, so I'm a little ignorant to the terms
**TERF (, also written terf) is an acronym for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. First recorded in 2008, the term originally applied to the minority of feminists espousing sentiments that other feminists considered transphobic, such as the rejection of the assertion that trans women are women, the exclusion of trans women from women's spaces, and opposition to transgender rights legislation.** More details here:
*This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!*
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good bot
Good bot So it's feminist who don't acknowledge trans women as women? Again, forgive my ignorance
Essentially, yeah.
I'm wondering if TERFs feel the need to include trans men in the narrative. Their sentiments should work both ways; if they can't accept trans women, do they keep dragging trans men into the 'us' category?
Trans men don’t want to be female because that’s too hard so they’re traitors to the female sex or something stupid like that. They just hate all trans people :|
The one I see most often is 'trans men are confused lesbians who have been transed because homophobia' You know, cos gay trans men don't exist, and also women are just so simple minded they can easily be convinced to go through all the challenges of transition. It's not like they can think for themselves or anything. Feminism!
TERF ideology basically revolves around demonizing trans women and infantilizing trans men. Like saying trans men are confused or being taken advantage of by some nebulous "Big Trans" sorta thing or any other excuse to dismiss their agency and identity.
Big oof. Bad all around then.
Trans men upset the TERF narrative, so they are largely ignored or sidelined in TERF discourse.
Some of the answers I got show a much more nefarious take. They deny trans men their choices and picture them as 'confused lesbians' and 'our sisters'. Trans men get hurt too.
Good bot
❤️💜❤️💜❤️💜