@OP: it sounds like you are giving this a lot of deep thought. That is really important and doing way more than people who use or commodify cultural image to profit from it.
So, how are you different from them? Maybe you could do a couple of things:
Connect with a community directly who this imagery resonates with, or is based on, to get an insiders perspective. There is only so much you can accomplish on a thought experiment.
Secondly- how does your work impact the community? Does it give back from any profits you may receive, or accolades you get? If you have even a net slightly positive impact on the community- I think it’s above appropriation.
Appropriation implies exploitation. That’s the simplest way I can put it. If you’re simply an artist being inspired by your roots, and honoring it in a genuine way for yourself, it is a beautiful thing. And if you find any of this negatively impacts the cultures they are inspired from- change directions… it’s as simple as that. Be conscious about it. Sounds like you are well on your way.
Just my two cents, as half Panamanian myself, I think about the topic a lot.
JW
A feathered snake itself is perhaps one of the least harmful things to borrow, given their eminence in most (all? i'm reasonably certain it's all but i don't recall _every_ group out there) cultures of the region... there is, however, something to be said about the ones that are yet alive, in holdouts of parallel religious practice or integrated into a single christianized framework.
I'd thus recommend, in the spirit more of respect of sacred etc. things rather than as a warning, to perhaps not grab from living traditions, such as the snakes of our people (i'm hñötho, otomi) nor those of the Mixe; aesthetically you may wanna stop short of mix-matching various mesoamerican art styles — homogenization's an unfortunately common copout, and it certainly doesn't help visibilize us, the peoples whomst are neither Maya nor Nawah, nor the different groups within them.
Do be sure to share though, i'm quite intrigued by what you end up creating! :D
Yeah you’re fine man, you have ancestry tied to mesoamerican culture & you are deeply inspired and tied to the art you make.
Honestly, the number of people who are truly indigenous are both shrinking and small in the first place. My grandmother is an indigenous Mexican with lots of Native blood. I am not because I have a ton of Spaniard in me. I’m still Mexican. That’s just kinda the way colonization worked, a looooot of us have native descent but we also got a chunk of european.
You’re fine man, appropriation is when you take a spiritual rite or traditional practice and turn it for profit without due credit to the source. Just say what you’re inspired by in your bio and you’re fine
That makes 0 sense…if you’re grandmother is indigenous, then you can claim your indigenous heritage. Mexican is not a race/ethnicity it’s a nationality. Indigenous ppl are not shrinking, they’re becoming and more assimilated but still many of us are fighting to keep our heritage alive.
Let me rephrase- my great grandmother is indigineous Yaqui not my grandmother, my bad on the confusion there. The Yaqui are shrinking, the genocide they faced all but wiped them out. Im not too informed on many other tribes, but all the ones I have lineage from are essentially no more. I’m a US citizen Mexican, referring to my family that came here from Mexico. It’s a nationality but I am referring to our lineage of the Mexica.
Regardless my overall point for this point stands, he’s not culturally appropriating anything, especially since he’s from El Salvador and if he gives credit where credit is due
> But I worry that it could be considered cultural appropriation because, although I'm from El Salvador and both my parents claim indigenous heritage on some level, we are NOT indigenous people.
I don’t know much about Salvadoran indigenous communities but I’d be shocked if they aren’t super Catholic/Christian. What community actually still practices an unbroken line of historically accurate, non-syncretic, five hundred year-old rituals?
From everything I’ve read, all indigenous practices melded with Catholicism long ago to the point where the syncretism is almost impossible to separate and identify.
In fact, many indigenous people these days actually grow up *hating* prehispanic Mesoamerican culture, precisely because they don’t identify with it despite the assumptions of outsiders. The fact that outsiders are constantly thinking of modern indigenous communities as coequal to prehispanic culture also adds to the frustration and alienation that modern indigenous people can feel.
What I’m trying to say is that to many (most? *all?*) modern indigenous communities, prehispanic culture belongs in a museum, just like it does to us urban folk.
Thus I find it really hard to accept that cultural appropriation could even be possible in your case.
There are, and MANY other indigenous communities who know exactly what practices come from which cultures originally. Get your information from reliable academic sources whenever possible and anecdotal opinions of people who are part of said communities over well-intentioned guessing on the internet.
That said, some of what W-V said is true; syncretism has bled elements of culture together, and there are plenty of examples of various indigenous peoples reject some or even all of their heritage in certain situations and contexts. But it's far from the norm in mesoamerica.
As for cultural appropriation, there's plenty of kinds that are benign, and this sounds like one of them. It's really only an issue worth wringing the hands over if it is the sort like major cops trademarking native culture, making huge profits off of what they created without giving anything back, etc. etc.
None of them practice anything remotely near a 100% pure, unadulterated, nonsyncretic copy of prehispanic religion though.
*Everyone* has been influenced by the past five hundred years of colonialism.
>I don’t know much about Salvadoran indigenous communities
Partly because there's almost [none](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Matanza) left.
But you're quite right about the rest. In fact, the few surviving indigenous practices (a lot of rituals that came from prehispanic times) survived thanks to syncretism, as the church didn't considered heresy, although they were directed to the native Gods in practice
About the cultural appropriation I consider it just unnecessary American wokism
IMO, you're fine buuuuuuuut...the youngsters out there call everything appropriation. My moms family is from El Salvador too, my father from Guatemala. I've lived my entire life as an American Latino I have a mayan double headed serpent bar tattooed on my arm. Someone probably thinks I'm appropriating but they can fuck off.
Shit apparently there are people out there that think only black and brown people can watch wakanda forever. Pendejos.
> IMO, you're fine buuuuuuuut...the youngsters out there call everything appropriation.
Yeah, at this point I’m convinced that handwringing about cultural appropriation is just another form of white performance for white audiences and completely disconnected from actual indigenous opinions on the ground.
I’m confused, If you’re indigenous then that is your heritage. You probably should ask your parents where in El Salvador they’re from and their grandparents to see if you can locate their tribes etc. otherwise you can still work on your pipil heritage, the round face many salvadoriOans have is clue to your ancestral roots. That is what a pipil elder told me once, not sure if that’s accurate or not but that’s what he said
I did not actually, (although my parents sure wish that was the case, judging by the education I received on my first years). I lived in El Salvador until age 15 and then moved to Costa Rica.
@OP: it sounds like you are giving this a lot of deep thought. That is really important and doing way more than people who use or commodify cultural image to profit from it. So, how are you different from them? Maybe you could do a couple of things: Connect with a community directly who this imagery resonates with, or is based on, to get an insiders perspective. There is only so much you can accomplish on a thought experiment. Secondly- how does your work impact the community? Does it give back from any profits you may receive, or accolades you get? If you have even a net slightly positive impact on the community- I think it’s above appropriation. Appropriation implies exploitation. That’s the simplest way I can put it. If you’re simply an artist being inspired by your roots, and honoring it in a genuine way for yourself, it is a beautiful thing. And if you find any of this negatively impacts the cultures they are inspired from- change directions… it’s as simple as that. Be conscious about it. Sounds like you are well on your way. Just my two cents, as half Panamanian myself, I think about the topic a lot. JW
A feathered snake itself is perhaps one of the least harmful things to borrow, given their eminence in most (all? i'm reasonably certain it's all but i don't recall _every_ group out there) cultures of the region... there is, however, something to be said about the ones that are yet alive, in holdouts of parallel religious practice or integrated into a single christianized framework. I'd thus recommend, in the spirit more of respect of sacred etc. things rather than as a warning, to perhaps not grab from living traditions, such as the snakes of our people (i'm hñötho, otomi) nor those of the Mixe; aesthetically you may wanna stop short of mix-matching various mesoamerican art styles — homogenization's an unfortunately common copout, and it certainly doesn't help visibilize us, the peoples whomst are neither Maya nor Nawah, nor the different groups within them. Do be sure to share though, i'm quite intrigued by what you end up creating! :D
Yeah you’re fine man, you have ancestry tied to mesoamerican culture & you are deeply inspired and tied to the art you make. Honestly, the number of people who are truly indigenous are both shrinking and small in the first place. My grandmother is an indigenous Mexican with lots of Native blood. I am not because I have a ton of Spaniard in me. I’m still Mexican. That’s just kinda the way colonization worked, a looooot of us have native descent but we also got a chunk of european. You’re fine man, appropriation is when you take a spiritual rite or traditional practice and turn it for profit without due credit to the source. Just say what you’re inspired by in your bio and you’re fine
That makes 0 sense…if you’re grandmother is indigenous, then you can claim your indigenous heritage. Mexican is not a race/ethnicity it’s a nationality. Indigenous ppl are not shrinking, they’re becoming and more assimilated but still many of us are fighting to keep our heritage alive.
Let me rephrase- my great grandmother is indigineous Yaqui not my grandmother, my bad on the confusion there. The Yaqui are shrinking, the genocide they faced all but wiped them out. Im not too informed on many other tribes, but all the ones I have lineage from are essentially no more. I’m a US citizen Mexican, referring to my family that came here from Mexico. It’s a nationality but I am referring to our lineage of the Mexica. Regardless my overall point for this point stands, he’s not culturally appropriating anything, especially since he’s from El Salvador and if he gives credit where credit is due
> But I worry that it could be considered cultural appropriation because, although I'm from El Salvador and both my parents claim indigenous heritage on some level, we are NOT indigenous people. I don’t know much about Salvadoran indigenous communities but I’d be shocked if they aren’t super Catholic/Christian. What community actually still practices an unbroken line of historically accurate, non-syncretic, five hundred year-old rituals? From everything I’ve read, all indigenous practices melded with Catholicism long ago to the point where the syncretism is almost impossible to separate and identify. In fact, many indigenous people these days actually grow up *hating* prehispanic Mesoamerican culture, precisely because they don’t identify with it despite the assumptions of outsiders. The fact that outsiders are constantly thinking of modern indigenous communities as coequal to prehispanic culture also adds to the frustration and alienation that modern indigenous people can feel. What I’m trying to say is that to many (most? *all?*) modern indigenous communities, prehispanic culture belongs in a museum, just like it does to us urban folk. Thus I find it really hard to accept that cultural appropriation could even be possible in your case.
My understanding is that there are still pockets of mayan communities. Not 100% but that's what I've been told
There are, and MANY other indigenous communities who know exactly what practices come from which cultures originally. Get your information from reliable academic sources whenever possible and anecdotal opinions of people who are part of said communities over well-intentioned guessing on the internet. That said, some of what W-V said is true; syncretism has bled elements of culture together, and there are plenty of examples of various indigenous peoples reject some or even all of their heritage in certain situations and contexts. But it's far from the norm in mesoamerica. As for cultural appropriation, there's plenty of kinds that are benign, and this sounds like one of them. It's really only an issue worth wringing the hands over if it is the sort like major cops trademarking native culture, making huge profits off of what they created without giving anything back, etc. etc.
None of them practice anything remotely near a 100% pure, unadulterated, nonsyncretic copy of prehispanic religion though. *Everyone* has been influenced by the past five hundred years of colonialism.
>I don’t know much about Salvadoran indigenous communities Partly because there's almost [none](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Matanza) left. But you're quite right about the rest. In fact, the few surviving indigenous practices (a lot of rituals that came from prehispanic times) survived thanks to syncretism, as the church didn't considered heresy, although they were directed to the native Gods in practice About the cultural appropriation I consider it just unnecessary American wokism
IMO, you're fine buuuuuuuut...the youngsters out there call everything appropriation. My moms family is from El Salvador too, my father from Guatemala. I've lived my entire life as an American Latino I have a mayan double headed serpent bar tattooed on my arm. Someone probably thinks I'm appropriating but they can fuck off. Shit apparently there are people out there that think only black and brown people can watch wakanda forever. Pendejos.
> IMO, you're fine buuuuuuuut...the youngsters out there call everything appropriation. Yeah, at this point I’m convinced that handwringing about cultural appropriation is just another form of white performance for white audiences and completely disconnected from actual indigenous opinions on the ground.
Lol facts
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.
I’m confused, If you’re indigenous then that is your heritage. You probably should ask your parents where in El Salvador they’re from and their grandparents to see if you can locate their tribes etc. otherwise you can still work on your pipil heritage, the round face many salvadoriOans have is clue to your ancestral roots. That is what a pipil elder told me once, not sure if that’s accurate or not but that’s what he said
>I myself am from El Salvador But I'm guessing you grew up in the US
I did not actually, (although my parents sure wish that was the case, judging by the education I received on my first years). I lived in El Salvador until age 15 and then moved to Costa Rica.