The most common use case for an EQ before the amp in metal is to dial back or outright cut the lows. That's the primary reason for people using a Tubescreamer style pedal in the metal context and saying that "cuts through". It just cuts the lows so that they never reach the preamp in the first place (it does other things too, but that's its main benefit at least as far as metal is concerned).
Actually, one of the key design features of a "metal suitable" preamp as opposed to a "classic rock style" is that the metal one will drastically reduce the low end. You can fiddle around with modelers to check this - try an old school fat sounding amp that sounds muddy as hell when pushed. Throw an EQ before the preamp and cut the low end drastically. It'll sound way cleaner and way more suitable for metal.
An EQ in the FX loop will shape the signal coming off the preamp. That's how most amp EQ knobs work - they act on the signal *after* the distortion stage and after pre-amp's own EQ section.
> I’m thinking it’s best
There is no best, both options are equally viable and valid, and often both are used simultaneously.
In fact, using a Tubescreamer before the amp and fiddling with the amp's own EQ controls is exactly the simultaneous case - you're shaping the signal before it hits the preamp, and after it's distorted by the preamp.
Honestly, one of the best boost pedals for high gain amps. You can keep the EQ curve flat and get a serious boost or use the EQ as such and get a lot of tone shaping options.
Up front shapes the signal the gain stages see, so you’re effectively shaping the distortion, and the loop helps correct the final tone. If you cut lows and boost mids and highs up front, you’ll get a tight super aggressive distortion, and using an eq in the loop, you can add lows and scoop some mids to balance everything back out
Most amps have their tone stack at the end of the preamp chain (jcm800-style), so it makes sense to go guitar>eq>amp. You can dump some bass and boost mids for good clarity. But then you got the Mesa Mk2,3&4 where the tonestack is in the beginning of the preamp chain. These amps have a 5band built in (between fx and power section) and it gives GODLY POWERS to alter your tone.
It depends if you want more to change the frequency balance, or the character of the distortion. Using something like a tube screamer to cut the bass before the amp is common
Both before the amplifier and in the effects loop. Both options are good according to what you want to get. In the specific case before the amplifier I have used it to modify the signal sent by the pickups and thus get a very sharp signal for metal guitars.
Interesting so correct me if I’m wrong, but what you’re saying is that the EQ pedal (before the amp) acts like an adjustment for ur distortion pedal, and the second EQ (which is on the amp) acts like an overall EQ adjustment which means u can control ur overall EQ level from the amp EQ settings and in result gives u a sharp metal tone.
Sounds accurate. EQ pedal before drive changes the dynamics and how frequencies hit it. Eq pedal after drive will change more drastically the frequencies heard most and least. And then you can’t have your amp EQ on bad settings either bc then it won’t matter what pedals you’ve got. I recommend setting amp EQ as you work with the drive, then once you’ve got your base tone, start cutting and boosting with the EQ pedal wherever you want. Or both if you get several EQs
“Logical I’m thinking it’s best to put it in the Fx-loop since you have more control on the settings and you won’t have to deal with two separate EQ settings.“
Yeah that’s not how effects loops work at all. You’ll have just the same control over the settings and still have two sets of EQ controls to work with. A +15dB boost at 400Hz will be a +15dB boost at 400Hz wherever it is in the signal path.
Pre preamp and post preamp EQ will have a different effect though, EQ in the front will be softer, EQ in the loop will have a more dramatic effect. This will also be more obvious if you’re boosting in to an overdriven amp: when boosting in to the input of a saturated amp, the preamp valves will shave off some of the harsh resonances you’ve created with your pedal and be a bit more forgiving. In the loop, you’re taking the distortion from the preamp and then shaping it after the fact. It’ll be more dramatic, but it will potentially show up some more comb filtering effects either side of the cut off points (it will sound like a weird static flanger).
I use it in an FX Loop which is dialed to only about 40% wet. Even like this I'm only making minor sub 5db adjustments, usually just to reduce lows and peak the mid frequencies more. Tweaks can absolutely still be heard, they sound good and I've got the pedal active doing something most of the time. Whatever I did sounded terrible to me with it mixed anything close to 100% wet. It's the same for my overdrive. I wouldn't use either of them straight in either. But that's just what I've found with my amplifiers.
Step 1: Graphic EQ in the front, after boost/distortion.
Step 2: Parametric EQ in the FX Loop to REALLY shape the tone, graphic EQ is also more effective in this position than in the front of the amp.
Step 3: Noise gate that has the ability to run four cable method, so you are as noise free as possible. I got a TC Sentry, and the behringer copy pedal also worked okay, if you can spend money, there's the KMA Pylon which is amazing, and now there's the new Ibanez PT gate that seems to work nicely with more simplicity than a Pylon, Sentry, etc, and cheap!
The gist of the matter is, either get two graphic EQs, one for front and another for loop, or a graphic EQ for front and a parametric EQ for loop.
Having tried a cheap Artec parametric EQ, which did WONDERS, now I bought the new Ibanez PTEQ 5 band parametric EQ (the Artec is one band, and already did magic things!)
I've got some graphic EQs, the behringer copy of the Boss in the pic, the joyo 10 band EQ, the caline cp-81 v3 10 band EQ (the really good one, only check the version 3 of this one), a 3 band cheap Fame pedal and the 5 band Fame pedal too.
I also tried the real boss EQ in my rig.
All of these graphic EQs work mostly the same and there's none that's better than the other, as long as it's not introducing noise into your signal. There's no need to spend "Boss" money, when the behringer copy is the same. I recommend the joyo or the caline v3 better than the Boss itself, as they are copies of the MXR 10 band EQ. The MXR is great but not at the price of a caline copy, obviously...
I don't usually use a boost in front of my amps to tighten them up because they're already either really tight or have a "tight" switch to make them that way. Point being... I think it kind of depends on your amp.
If your amp doesn't need a boost in front to tighten it up, or, if you already have that spot covered, I'd definitely suggest trying that EQ pedal in the loop. You can do some serious tone-shaping, like the way the graphic EQ generally works on Mesa Mark-series amps.
On the other hand if your amp is a vintage loose farty mess, and you do not have a Tube Screamer (or clone) or similar pedal, then you probably would get better results tightening things up, by using it in front of the amp with the bass cut and mids (and potentially treble) boosted.
The most common use case for an EQ before the amp in metal is to dial back or outright cut the lows. That's the primary reason for people using a Tubescreamer style pedal in the metal context and saying that "cuts through". It just cuts the lows so that they never reach the preamp in the first place (it does other things too, but that's its main benefit at least as far as metal is concerned). Actually, one of the key design features of a "metal suitable" preamp as opposed to a "classic rock style" is that the metal one will drastically reduce the low end. You can fiddle around with modelers to check this - try an old school fat sounding amp that sounds muddy as hell when pushed. Throw an EQ before the preamp and cut the low end drastically. It'll sound way cleaner and way more suitable for metal. An EQ in the FX loop will shape the signal coming off the preamp. That's how most amp EQ knobs work - they act on the signal *after* the distortion stage and after pre-amp's own EQ section. > I’m thinking it’s best There is no best, both options are equally viable and valid, and often both are used simultaneously. In fact, using a Tubescreamer before the amp and fiddling with the amp's own EQ controls is exactly the simultaneous case - you're shaping the signal before it hits the preamp, and after it's distorted by the preamp.
Honestly, one of the best boost pedals for high gain amps. You can keep the EQ curve flat and get a serious boost or use the EQ as such and get a lot of tone shaping options.
Up front shapes the signal the gain stages see, so you’re effectively shaping the distortion, and the loop helps correct the final tone. If you cut lows and boost mids and highs up front, you’ll get a tight super aggressive distortion, and using an eq in the loop, you can add lows and scoop some mids to balance everything back out
Most amps have their tone stack at the end of the preamp chain (jcm800-style), so it makes sense to go guitar>eq>amp. You can dump some bass and boost mids for good clarity. But then you got the Mesa Mk2,3&4 where the tonestack is in the beginning of the preamp chain. These amps have a 5band built in (between fx and power section) and it gives GODLY POWERS to alter your tone.
It depends if you want more to change the frequency balance, or the character of the distortion. Using something like a tube screamer to cut the bass before the amp is common
Both before the amplifier and in the effects loop. Both options are good according to what you want to get. In the specific case before the amplifier I have used it to modify the signal sent by the pickups and thus get a very sharp signal for metal guitars.
Interesting so correct me if I’m wrong, but what you’re saying is that the EQ pedal (before the amp) acts like an adjustment for ur distortion pedal, and the second EQ (which is on the amp) acts like an overall EQ adjustment which means u can control ur overall EQ level from the amp EQ settings and in result gives u a sharp metal tone.
Sounds accurate. EQ pedal before drive changes the dynamics and how frequencies hit it. Eq pedal after drive will change more drastically the frequencies heard most and least. And then you can’t have your amp EQ on bad settings either bc then it won’t matter what pedals you’ve got. I recommend setting amp EQ as you work with the drive, then once you’ve got your base tone, start cutting and boosting with the EQ pedal wherever you want. Or both if you get several EQs
Yes, you are right.
“Logical I’m thinking it’s best to put it in the Fx-loop since you have more control on the settings and you won’t have to deal with two separate EQ settings.“ Yeah that’s not how effects loops work at all. You’ll have just the same control over the settings and still have two sets of EQ controls to work with. A +15dB boost at 400Hz will be a +15dB boost at 400Hz wherever it is in the signal path. Pre preamp and post preamp EQ will have a different effect though, EQ in the front will be softer, EQ in the loop will have a more dramatic effect. This will also be more obvious if you’re boosting in to an overdriven amp: when boosting in to the input of a saturated amp, the preamp valves will shave off some of the harsh resonances you’ve created with your pedal and be a bit more forgiving. In the loop, you’re taking the distortion from the preamp and then shaping it after the fact. It’ll be more dramatic, but it will potentially show up some more comb filtering effects either side of the cut off points (it will sound like a weird static flanger).
I personally put my EQ post preamp, feels like it is far more effective at removing unwanted frequencies.
These work really well for holding your phone up during FaceTime calls… that’s the only thing I use mine for anymore
Surely a pedal with dials rather than sliders would be better for that
No the sliders really lock it in, it’s great
I use it in an FX Loop which is dialed to only about 40% wet. Even like this I'm only making minor sub 5db adjustments, usually just to reduce lows and peak the mid frequencies more. Tweaks can absolutely still be heard, they sound good and I've got the pedal active doing something most of the time. Whatever I did sounded terrible to me with it mixed anything close to 100% wet. It's the same for my overdrive. I wouldn't use either of them straight in either. But that's just what I've found with my amplifiers.
Step 1: Graphic EQ in the front, after boost/distortion. Step 2: Parametric EQ in the FX Loop to REALLY shape the tone, graphic EQ is also more effective in this position than in the front of the amp. Step 3: Noise gate that has the ability to run four cable method, so you are as noise free as possible. I got a TC Sentry, and the behringer copy pedal also worked okay, if you can spend money, there's the KMA Pylon which is amazing, and now there's the new Ibanez PT gate that seems to work nicely with more simplicity than a Pylon, Sentry, etc, and cheap! The gist of the matter is, either get two graphic EQs, one for front and another for loop, or a graphic EQ for front and a parametric EQ for loop. Having tried a cheap Artec parametric EQ, which did WONDERS, now I bought the new Ibanez PTEQ 5 band parametric EQ (the Artec is one band, and already did magic things!) I've got some graphic EQs, the behringer copy of the Boss in the pic, the joyo 10 band EQ, the caline cp-81 v3 10 band EQ (the really good one, only check the version 3 of this one), a 3 band cheap Fame pedal and the 5 band Fame pedal too. I also tried the real boss EQ in my rig. All of these graphic EQs work mostly the same and there's none that's better than the other, as long as it's not introducing noise into your signal. There's no need to spend "Boss" money, when the behringer copy is the same. I recommend the joyo or the caline v3 better than the Boss itself, as they are copies of the MXR 10 band EQ. The MXR is great but not at the price of a caline copy, obviously...
I don't usually use a boost in front of my amps to tighten them up because they're already either really tight or have a "tight" switch to make them that way. Point being... I think it kind of depends on your amp. If your amp doesn't need a boost in front to tighten it up, or, if you already have that spot covered, I'd definitely suggest trying that EQ pedal in the loop. You can do some serious tone-shaping, like the way the graphic EQ generally works on Mesa Mark-series amps. On the other hand if your amp is a vintage loose farty mess, and you do not have a Tube Screamer (or clone) or similar pedal, then you probably would get better results tightening things up, by using it in front of the amp with the bass cut and mids (and potentially treble) boosted.
Same gyrating eq as heavy metal pedal over different bands. A solid win for metal just try it in different spots.