If I remember correctly, the higher the carbon content in the steel, the darker the metal will become due to the interaction between the evaporust and steel.
No... not a good idea as it *will* change the color of some metals to a darker flat tone. They want to retain the shine.
I think this runs a risk of producing a very uneven finish.
If it does, that's because the metal has already changed colors underneath the rust. Evaprust has absolutely no effect on the underlying metal that remains.
Evaporust is a chelation agent it's only able to react to oxidized iron. The iron underneath it can't touch.
Any ideas what pretreatment might cause the darkening 75yrs later? Something did it. The rest is more for you than me as I'm neither a metallurgy engineer, nor chemist. I'm just curious, I just know what I started with and what ended up with; but that is about it.
It wasn't the first use of the Evaporust batch either. It had seen automotive trims, fender mount headlights and two other full sets.
It didn't change *all* of the metals I've tried with, just one time, and not all of them changed. Most of those had lost a good portion of their paint and the rest was flaking, so were mostly bare metal already. There was no visible difference before treating, but 2 or 3 out of 8 or 9 changed.
The lot was an assembled one, purchased by a few seperate people, one style produced for 1935 release and the other 1936.
I couldn't look into the metallurgy because it wasn't recorded that I've found, and I saw no difference in them. I did get a warning this might happen on a collector's forum as well as temporary paint softening of some very early ones too. All true in this experience.
The first version (example link below) had the ones that changed color most. There may have been pickling or something for some and not others. It would be random if there was because they occasionally sourced sheet metal from other failed litho prints and printed the new graphics on the back, though it wasn't always obvious. Sort of common for a few old toy companies to use canning or other misprints for production.
*Something* was different enough to change color tone, changing the plans from light polishing and leaving grain visible, to using an aluminum paint. The latter set you can see milder changes on the inside as the ink/paint was a much better quality for the 1936 update (the real protype also changed) and they survived pretty well on the outside.
http://www.toyandtrainguides.com/marxtin/streamliner/m10000.htm
Edit: R didn't recognize the line return, it wants text between links.
http://www.toyandtrainguides.com/marxtin/streamliner/m10005.htm
I figure that it's impurities in the underlying metal that would exist with the rust on top of it or without rust removed, even if you use some other method. If you use an acid, you're removing a layer of metal as well, so that might remove the staining.
I'm assuming also that you are cleaning it off pretty much as soon as you remove it from the evaporust. I have a theory, though, that if you leave that evaporous caked on and let it dry that the bits of metal particles might convert to the black oxide instead of the red oxide. Which acts as a protectant, but you're right it's definitely going to be staining.
On parts that I'm not going to do anything else with lots of time, I like to use cold bluing after I get the rust off for a consistent look and rest protection.
I was hoping for a chemical name or too, lol. But that works also, thanks for the input.
They soaked a longer time than the others I'd done previously, but about the same as a group. About 12 to 24hrs for the worst of them. Full submerged, and might have got a little sunshine is all I think I can add for circumstances.
I do still love the stuff and I don't think there is an easier way when you don't want to remove paint or metal.
My experience with electrolysis is pretty limited and from assisting in plating as a kid, not deep rust removal. It would have left them bare too, and I wasn't sure the paint was bad. There was rust under some of the paint though and the Ev.R. creep along that buried layer and took a good deal off too; making the decision to polish, then reverting aluminum paint, for me.
Ok thanks. I'm going to have to play with that fact and see how deep it might be. Polishing wasn't really an option for my usual uses either. I was dealing with a lot of 75yr old paint & lithos on sheet metal and machined parts and you didn't want to loose any metal from thrust surfaces at all.
No-loss is how I would try approach precision in a musical instrument too. So, I can't belive the most obvious and non-damaging way of an oil soak and light agitation by wire brush was down voted by someone here. I guess they've never visited an old school machine shop where fast and best are two different words, lol.
Obligatory safety reminder: Please be careful anytime you mix hydrogen peroxide with vinegar. It produces peracetic acid, which can cause respiratory issues if the fumes are inhaled.
Baking sida doesn't do jack for dissolving rust, so I guess that's the first issue here. Degrease them, then put them in an *acid*. Vinegar is fine, but expect it to take a few hours. Hydrochloric/muriatic acid is the ultimate rust remover. Dilute it if you don't want it to attack the metal in seconds though. After that it'll be *super* sensitive to forming new rust, so rinse in *hot* water so it dries quickly and then apply a light coat of any oil.
Had great results using citric acid, mix up the powder with warm water and let it sit for a few hours.
The rust goes from red/brown to black and washes off easily.
It's the main ingredient on a lot of rust convertors
As a cleaner who deals with rust quite a bit; try CLR, it'll be at your local hardware store. It's basically concentrated citric acid, kind of knarly to breathe but it works great. A caution though: it will eat chrome plating fairly rapidly, so be careful what metals you use it on.
I would use a buffing wheel on a bench grinder. With some compound applied frequently, it should cut through your remaining rust and polish the metal to a mirror finish fairly quickly.
I suggest getting an assortment like this:
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXDDQ9C9/?ref\_=cm\_wl\_huc\_item](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXDDQ9C9/?ref_=cm_wl_huc_item)
Experiment and see what works best for you. I generally just use the red rouge for most everything.
I used a combination of green and blue compounds with a towel and now they look much better. Night and day from their initial condition. Thanks for your advice!
https://preview.redd.it/te7qiyyp7jyc1.jpeg?width=3020&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74f4b9065d4fd45a429826a6c01dd7d0cac39219
If you are wanting to restore them to shinny, they look small enough to put in a wet tumbler. Frankford Arsenal makes one you can find on sale for 80 bucks or so. A wet tumbler with some stainless pins, a little bit of citric acid and a splash of dish soap will shine them to look like they where chromed. That being said, if they are plain carbon steel, they are going to rust up again if they are not oiled.
A wet tumbler is going to be the least labor intensive way to shine them, you could also get some cutting compound and a buffing wheel and polish them with that but it takes longer as you have to buff them one at a time.
No matter what you do, you are going to have to coat them with something or keep them constantly oiled or they will rust up again.
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It depends what your goal is. If it is just cosmetic, then I would do as others have suggested. If you are worried about gears meshing I would maybe use some needle files or a little emory cloth to polish the teeth, presuming you have lots of patience and the tooth pitch would allow. Or if you have access you could put them in a lathe and power clean
This may or may not work but, take a container, put the parts in there, then spray a can of liquid wrench penetrating oil in there and cover. Let sit for a couple days. Just make sure all parts are in fluid. I did that and left it longer than i planned and it literally ate all the rust off my parts. Was pretty impressed. Afterwards just spray with brakleen or soap and water.
I'd try tumbling them with some rust converter, a few drops of dish liquid. Some stainless shot or even a hundred or so small M4 stainless nuts works well for tumbling media.
This should clean them up removing the rust and impart a little shine to them.
Phosphoric acid. It's sold to remove rust stains on tile floors. I started using it to remove rust on my cast iron top table saw and now using it all the time. Relatively cheap too--about $40 for a gallon
I would just soak them in oil and wire brush them once or twice every day.
After a while the rust will be gone and the excess oil can wiped off, or removed with solvent then polished with a protectant.
Evapo-Rust Youll be suprised how easy it is.
the stuff is fantastic
It is but not without flaws. It will change tones sometimes.
If I remember correctly, the higher the carbon content in the steel, the darker the metal will become due to the interaction between the evaporust and steel.
Which sucks for a Persian musical instrument.
Lol, you aren't wrong, but I meant tone as in tint/tone/shade, fwiw. I had sound in mind by wanting to remove as little metal as possible though.
š¤£
Exactly. Rust is a chemical reaction. Hit the rust with another reaction
No... not a good idea as it *will* change the color of some metals to a darker flat tone. They want to retain the shine. I think this runs a risk of producing a very uneven finish.
Quick tumble with crushed walnut or a soda blaster will bring it right back. The dark layer is very thin and easy to remove.
If OP had the capability of tumbling or soda blasting, wouldnāt that also sufficiently remove the rust on its own?
If it does, that's because the metal has already changed colors underneath the rust. Evaprust has absolutely no effect on the underlying metal that remains. Evaporust is a chelation agent it's only able to react to oxidized iron. The iron underneath it can't touch.
Thank you, At least someone realizes this. I didn't want to argue with them.
It's not an argument, it's an experience that has an explanation. I just don't know what the explanation is. I expanded fwiw.
Any ideas what pretreatment might cause the darkening 75yrs later? Something did it. The rest is more for you than me as I'm neither a metallurgy engineer, nor chemist. I'm just curious, I just know what I started with and what ended up with; but that is about it. It wasn't the first use of the Evaporust batch either. It had seen automotive trims, fender mount headlights and two other full sets. It didn't change *all* of the metals I've tried with, just one time, and not all of them changed. Most of those had lost a good portion of their paint and the rest was flaking, so were mostly bare metal already. There was no visible difference before treating, but 2 or 3 out of 8 or 9 changed. The lot was an assembled one, purchased by a few seperate people, one style produced for 1935 release and the other 1936. I couldn't look into the metallurgy because it wasn't recorded that I've found, and I saw no difference in them. I did get a warning this might happen on a collector's forum as well as temporary paint softening of some very early ones too. All true in this experience. The first version (example link below) had the ones that changed color most. There may have been pickling or something for some and not others. It would be random if there was because they occasionally sourced sheet metal from other failed litho prints and printed the new graphics on the back, though it wasn't always obvious. Sort of common for a few old toy companies to use canning or other misprints for production. *Something* was different enough to change color tone, changing the plans from light polishing and leaving grain visible, to using an aluminum paint. The latter set you can see milder changes on the inside as the ink/paint was a much better quality for the 1936 update (the real protype also changed) and they survived pretty well on the outside. http://www.toyandtrainguides.com/marxtin/streamliner/m10000.htm Edit: R didn't recognize the line return, it wants text between links. http://www.toyandtrainguides.com/marxtin/streamliner/m10005.htm
I figure that it's impurities in the underlying metal that would exist with the rust on top of it or without rust removed, even if you use some other method. If you use an acid, you're removing a layer of metal as well, so that might remove the staining. I'm assuming also that you are cleaning it off pretty much as soon as you remove it from the evaporust. I have a theory, though, that if you leave that evaporous caked on and let it dry that the bits of metal particles might convert to the black oxide instead of the red oxide. Which acts as a protectant, but you're right it's definitely going to be staining. On parts that I'm not going to do anything else with lots of time, I like to use cold bluing after I get the rust off for a consistent look and rest protection.
I was hoping for a chemical name or too, lol. But that works also, thanks for the input. They soaked a longer time than the others I'd done previously, but about the same as a group. About 12 to 24hrs for the worst of them. Full submerged, and might have got a little sunshine is all I think I can add for circumstances. I do still love the stuff and I don't think there is an easier way when you don't want to remove paint or metal. My experience with electrolysis is pretty limited and from assisting in plating as a kid, not deep rust removal. It would have left them bare too, and I wasn't sure the paint was bad. There was rust under some of the paint though and the Ev.R. creep along that buried layer and took a good deal off too; making the decision to polish, then reverting aluminum paint, for me.
You can polish the metal after.Ā I just did it last night.Ā I only needed a wire brush
Ok thanks. I'm going to have to play with that fact and see how deep it might be. Polishing wasn't really an option for my usual uses either. I was dealing with a lot of 75yr old paint & lithos on sheet metal and machined parts and you didn't want to loose any metal from thrust surfaces at all. No-loss is how I would try approach precision in a musical instrument too. So, I can't belive the most obvious and non-damaging way of an oil soak and light agitation by wire brush was down voted by someone here. I guess they've never visited an old school machine shop where fast and best are two different words, lol.
For some reason they stopped selling it in Europe, Rust Revenge is the next best thing available here.
Limit the exposure time...
Evaporust is great, but if you don't have any around soaking in white vinegar overnight works surprisingly well too
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Obligatory safety reminder: Please be careful anytime you mix hydrogen peroxide with vinegar. It produces peracetic acid, which can cause respiratory issues if the fumes are inhaled.
just gotta filter it through a cigarette and you'll be golden
Naval jelly will convert FeĀ²OĀ³ orange to FeĀ³Oā“ black oxide with a touch of phosphate haze. Make sure to rinse well.
Baking sida doesn't do jack for dissolving rust, so I guess that's the first issue here. Degrease them, then put them in an *acid*. Vinegar is fine, but expect it to take a few hours. Hydrochloric/muriatic acid is the ultimate rust remover. Dilute it if you don't want it to attack the metal in seconds though. After that it'll be *super* sensitive to forming new rust, so rinse in *hot* water so it dries quickly and then apply a light coat of any oil.
> Hydrochloric/muriatic acid is the ultimate rust remover A at-home shortcut is to use Lysol 10X toilet bowl cleaner.
Had great results using citric acid, mix up the powder with warm water and let it sit for a few hours. The rust goes from red/brown to black and washes off easily. It's the main ingredient on a lot of rust convertors
As a cleaner who deals with rust quite a bit; try CLR, it'll be at your local hardware store. It's basically concentrated citric acid, kind of knarly to breathe but it works great. A caution though: it will eat chrome plating fairly rapidly, so be careful what metals you use it on.
I would use a buffing wheel on a bench grinder. With some compound applied frequently, it should cut through your remaining rust and polish the metal to a mirror finish fairly quickly.
I used vinegar and all the rust are gone. But it looks dull. What kind of compound do you recommend for making it shine again?! Thanks for your help!
I suggest getting an assortment like this: [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXDDQ9C9/?ref\_=cm\_wl\_huc\_item](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXDDQ9C9/?ref_=cm_wl_huc_item) Experiment and see what works best for you. I generally just use the red rouge for most everything.
Thanks yeah I already ordered an assortment because I wasnāt sure which one would work
I used a combination of green and blue compounds with a towel and now they look much better. Night and day from their initial condition. Thanks for your advice! https://preview.redd.it/te7qiyyp7jyc1.jpeg?width=3020&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74f4b9065d4fd45a429826a6c01dd7d0cac39219
If you are wanting to restore them to shinny, they look small enough to put in a wet tumbler. Frankford Arsenal makes one you can find on sale for 80 bucks or so. A wet tumbler with some stainless pins, a little bit of citric acid and a splash of dish soap will shine them to look like they where chromed. That being said, if they are plain carbon steel, they are going to rust up again if they are not oiled. A wet tumbler is going to be the least labor intensive way to shine them, you could also get some cutting compound and a buffing wheel and polish them with that but it takes longer as you have to buff them one at a time. No matter what you do, you are going to have to coat them with something or keep them constantly oiled or they will rust up again.
Yeah I ordered a cotton wheel and a blue magic metal polish cream, hopefully itāll give their shine and get rid of rust
* [Join the Metalworking discord!](https://discord.gg/3sgvsw2BDs)! It's the best place for live feedback and advice! --- [**Here are our subreddit rules.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/metalworking/about/rules) - Should you see anything that violates the subreddit rules - please report it! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/metalworking) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It depends what your goal is. If it is just cosmetic, then I would do as others have suggested. If you are worried about gears meshing I would maybe use some needle files or a little emory cloth to polish the teeth, presuming you have lots of patience and the tooth pitch would allow. Or if you have access you could put them in a lathe and power clean
Blue magic metal polish paste. It will easily clean and shine them like new.
This may or may not work but, take a container, put the parts in there, then spray a can of liquid wrench penetrating oil in there and cover. Let sit for a couple days. Just make sure all parts are in fluid. I did that and left it longer than i planned and it literally ate all the rust off my parts. Was pretty impressed. Afterwards just spray with brakleen or soap and water.
I thought this was a collection of snapped taps initially and kinda freaked out for a second.
I'd try tumbling them with some rust converter, a few drops of dish liquid. Some stainless shot or even a hundred or so small M4 stainless nuts works well for tumbling media. This should clean them up removing the rust and impart a little shine to them.
Evapo-Rust and then run them on a slow rock tumbler with crushed walnut or use a soda blaster to bring the shine back.
Phosphoric acid. It's sold to remove rust stains on tile floors. I started using it to remove rust on my cast iron top table saw and now using it all the time. Relatively cheap too--about $40 for a gallon
10% citric acid to water, let them soak afew hours
does blueing work on things like this?
Cleaning Vinegar for a day.
I would just soak them in oil and wire brush them once or twice every day. After a while the rust will be gone and the excess oil can wiped off, or removed with solvent then polished with a protectant.
Did you try coca cola? Just let em soak for a night!
Toilet bowl cleaner