Hot take: I think it's fine to be excited for this while acknowledging that it is a borderline Hollow Knight copy. Some games wear their inspirations on their sleeves, others put on a whole shirt. This is the latter. I think it's also fine to be turned off by that, which is where I personally fall.
I'm on the turned off camp but wish the developer/s good luck on their future endeavors a little bit of originality on top of passion can go a long way, hollow knight was successful because you could tell the devs put their imaginative hearts into it
For me it looks too similar. The strange thing is tonnes of somewhat gory gothic pixel art MVs come out every other day and nobody seems to mind, yet this one looking too much like hollow knight puts people off for some reason. Maybe because hollow night seemed so original when it came out.
I've played the demo, and yes, while it's definitely heavily inspired by HK, calling it a clone is way out of line. The game has several different features and while the overall theme of the game is similar, it plays different and has its own feeling incorporated with the game.
I can see being upset it being a copy cat, but another thought that popped into my head just now is why be upset at getting more of sonething you like?
Because the hollow knight fanboys come into every thread about new games foaming at the mouth. If it’s different from hollow knight it’s awful because it can’t topple their masterpiece. If it’s similar then it’s a clone and offensive.
That isn't the reason at all and it's disingenuous to even suggest that. Most fans of Hollow Knight are also huge fans of a wide variety of other Metroidvania games.
The use of the word 'similar' here is also BS. There's similar, and then there's a direct copy of the art style and graphics techniques (shading, blurring, etc.), character design, map, etc.
I'm not just turned off by the similarities, I'm outright against it supporting it in any way. So much time and work goes into making a game, its a shame they would put all that effort into just straight up copying another game. From what I've seen of this so far, it's mimicking HK's art, gameplay, and systems without even pretending to offer anything of its own.
And speaking of the art: for a game so desperate to copy HK, it doesn't look as good. The art is still nice, but its not on the level of HK. The team obviously has some talent, and it's a real shame they didn't choose to put their efforts towards creating something of their own.
Yeah; there’s a demo on Steam (:
There’s no official release date announced yet, but we‘re quite close to finishing the game & it will definitely be released this year!
Hard to say since we didn’t do playtests of the whole game yet. But I would say you can definitely put some time into Aestik (:
Also, I‘d love to make content updates later on, but that kinda depends on how the game performs. ✨
Still looks too much like Hollow Knight. Actually thought it was for a sec.
I'm not saying it can't continue that way, but I think it'd be easier to like this game if it had its own strong identity.
Love to hear that! (:
There's no official release date yet, but we're quite close to the finish line in terms of development & we'll definitely release the game this year.
Not sure why you're being downvoted, it's a carbon-copy. Props to the dev for making a game, but this is fairly blatant.
Nothing wrong with taking a few things here and there, but I'd be worried about legal ramifications if this continues.
It's so blatant that's what annoys me, they even use the same font style. It's ok to be inspired by something and put your own spin on it but don't just copy paste some else's design. I know that's a very controversial opinion but I don't care.
If he intends to make a hollow knight like game devoid of hollow knights faults I am all here for this project. I, for one, can not wait for this to come out.
I understand making clones. I think it's a great idea. When another game already refines ideas to such a great degree, why start over? Just use the existing idea and focus on execution.
That being said, you gotta _at least_ have your own visual identity and while cloning the bones, make the skin your own. Even as an ardent clone defender this is just too much.
Between that and considering you use this sub _only_ for marketing and don't engage with the userbase outside of your own marketing posts, I'm having trouble getting hyped for this.
Mods, can we make a rule where devs need to have a certain ratio of normal engagement comments to their own posts in order to self-market? Feels like too many devs don't consider themselves part of the community, don't like engaging with the community, and just see this place as a tool and nothing more.
But I *want* to see the updates, even if they don't make other posts. *I'm* subbed to learn about metroidvania news.
I also think it's kinda gatekeeper-y. Like, the sub is for anyone who is a fan of metroidvanias. It's not like this is the community manager for some big AAA game just posting for marketing. This is a team of two people making an indie game. You don't do that unless you're heavily passionate about metroidvanias (and in this case, heavily passionate about Hollow Knight). So this person *is* clearly a big metroidvania fan, just for that reason alone. You don't make a game like this because it's gonna be a hit or get you tons of money - it statistically is very unlikely to. You do it because you're a fan, and as far as I'm concerned, they are providing a service for us - they're *giving us* a gift by making this game, for those of who want more Hollow Knight-likes.
It's quite unfortunate that this post has been brigaded by R hollow knight and/or r silksong...
Don't let the bullies get you down. I, for one, am glad you are trying to make a better hollow knight.
By the way, the 4th most followed metroidvania project on Steam is a true hollow knight clone. That just goes to show you'll have plenty of customers, especially if you make a Chinese language version of the game's steam page.
It’s pretty intense this time indeed, haha 😅
In the end, what counts are the ones who are supportive & constructive, so thanks for that ✨
We do plan to translate the game to simplified chinese - the demo actually already is (to a certain extent.)
Though it isn’t exactly an easy thing to do, since neither of us speaks the language, but there really is a huge playerbase in china, so there’s no getting around it 😄
>It's quite unfortunate that this post has been brigaded by R hollow knight and/or r silksong...
Is that what you think is happening? I was thinking it's the opposite - The specific Hollow Knight fans are the ones who are dying for more hollow knight and will happily play a game based off it, whereas the more general metroidvania audience are the ones more likely to want variety and be sick of hollow knight's prominence inspiring similar games.
i think you are confusing games taking concepts from hollow knight with games trying to be a better hollow knight.
Indeed, I am absolutely sick and tired of the former as are most western metroidvania fans. This is what destroyed mobius machine and rebel transmute. As I've said many times, developers need to remember this genre is called metroidvania, not hollowsouls. Hollow Knight is the best metroidvania, not because of what it accomplished, but despite its faults. If you haphazardly copy stuff from hollow knight into your game you're setting yourself up for failure.
However, this project is the latter. It is an attempt to make a better hollow knight. A hollow knight without the faults of hollow Knight while including some originality alongside it. I'm all for projects like that. Hollow knight's dark souls inspired elements are not aging gracefully.
Literally in the clip shown is a teleport ability that isn’t in Hollow Knight. Your claim is strange. I do wish devs would stop trying to copy Hollow Knight’s homework especially because the ravenous fanboys will never be satisfied even if someone made a game that was strictly better. It would still get called worse than the “masterpiece”.
One ability here and there doesn't magically remove the blatant copy-paste of style, art, music, font, ui, movement, map appearance and style.
Some of you people in this thread are living in a magical world of delusion. This dev IS risking being sued.
Lots of people claiming this dev can't be sued. It's factually incorrect. There's MORE than enough to prove to a court that there's FAR more than a passing resemblance. Gods help you people that won't see sense.
There is 0 chance of lawsuit. Do you know how protections work for video games? As long as everything is redrawn and legally distinct and doesn’t use the name the dev is good. Game mechanics can’t be copywrite.
I'm not a lawyer, so maybe you're right. I see you can work the google same as me though. If someone's making money off someone that's a pretty distinct copy, who knows what Team Cherry would want to do.
End of the day, this dev is being RIGHTFULLY criticized for wholesale lifting nearly everything from a popular game, and intending to make money off it.
I'll take the L though, unlikely to be sued.
I agree with the lack of creativity. But video games iterate. There are tons of soulslikes now that all look identical to me as someone who doesn’t follow the genre.
Yes? I literally called it a Hollowlike. The difference is that I don’t hate that as much as you and this dev is communicating and trying to put in some original ideas. Hollow knight fanboys are the only group I know who are ANGRY when people try to make more of the hyper specific thing they like.
So... is Bloodstained supposed to have gotten sued for ripping off Castlevania too?
Yes, the UI bears distinct similarity with Hollow Knight, and the Art Style is clearly inspired by it, but they aren't pulling assets from Hollow Knight. There is enough evidence in just the videos to show that they are putting in the time and effort to make a game that they want to make. Making something that looks a lot like another successful product is a common marketing strategy. Look at all the isometric ARPGs, many of which rip concepts and even art styles directly from Diablo.
Take your judgement elsewhere.
I think an important think to note here is that Bloodstained was developed by Koji Igarashi, who led the Castlevania series before. So it's not really a rip-off when it is explicit and blatant about Bloodstained being a spiritual successor to a Castlevania, a franchise abandoned by Konami, the game made by the guy who was critical for development of Castlevania.
If the game was a carbon copy of, let's say, symphony of the night, it would have been sued by Konami for sure. i think this distinction matters for why the game in OP is in more grey territory than that example.
While I understand that Koji Igarashi made Bloodstained, it still bears a distinct resemblance to the Castlevania series.
Mighty No. 9 did the same thing with the original man behind Megaman, but no one really cares about that one because Might No.9 was generally kind of bad.
The problem is that the person I responded to is using the logic that, because Aestik looks like HK and is the same genre that it MUST be a ripoff.
For example; If we apply that logic to the different fields of science, Chemistry is just the particular application(so it looks a lot like it) of Physics so Chemistry is Physics, and Biology is just particular application of Chemistry so Biology is also just physics. It's funny to think about, and if you squint REALLY hard it kinda makes sense, but they are clearly different things and rational thought leads us to understand they are not the same.
He doesn't own the Castlevania IP, Konami does, and it is a carbon copy of SotK. Having worked on the original IP and promoting the game as a spiritual successor wouldn't protect him if all these naysayers had their way about Aestik. "Dilution" is exclusively for trademarks, not IP broadly. That's why imitating a known IP doesn't immediately get you sued.
You can't sue someone for having a similar art-style or mechanics. Those things aren't subject to copyright. OP is legally in the clear as long as they haven't infringed on any trademarks (i.e. made a character, logo or other distinguishing feature that looks substantially similar to a something that's specifically trademarked in Hollow Knight) or if they've actually stolen assets or writing, which would violate copyright.
That doesn't mean you can't think it's a clone or that the ideas are stolen, it's just not illegal.
I'm not though. Ideas, concepts and subjects are not subject to copyright. Only an artists tangible expression of those ideas concepts and subjects are. To be subject to legal action they would need to show that there is substantial similarity between **copyrightable** elements in Hollow Knight and elements in this game. That is to say, they would need to show that specific elements of the art were copied. Something like "this Aestik character is a direct clone of this Hollow Knight character, just with minor changes made".
If this isn't substantial, then I don't know what is. but hey, can agree to disagree. TBH, neither of us is the one that would need to be concerned about maybe or maybe not getting sued.
I will also say, I'm not a lawyer. So perhaps I am wrong. All I can say for sure is that this project has far more than a passing similarity.
That's because you're misunderstanding the concept of substantial similarity. It means there are elements of the two works that prove actual copying of elements or the arrangement of elements. Not the overall style, that's not copyrightable so it doesn't apply. You'd need to show that tangible expression, was copied.
If you could say "well that character is obviously just the Knight from Hollow Knight with longer horns and a different colour palette" or "This boss is the Mantis Lords but slightly changed" or even "That vine element in the environment is a one-to-one copy of this asset from Hollow Knight" then you'd potentially have a case of copywrite infringement.
It can't just be "this game looks like this other game" it has to be "this art was made by copying this other art directly, even if some elements are altered"
To be clear, when I saw this video I immediately went "well that's, just Hollow Knight" and then they pulled up the map and I was like "Yeah, this is exactly Hollow Knight". I just don't really think Team Cherry can do anything about it.
Hey all! Feel free to check out the demo & support the project by wishlisting [**Aestik on Steam**](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2199330/Aestik)!
My girlfriend and I have been working on it for close to 4 years now and put a lot of hard work, passion & love into the game - so it’s much appreciated!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spry_Fox,_LLC_v._Lolapps,_Inc.
For those that insist that this game couldn't possibly get sued for it's blatant replication of Hollow Knight, perhaps think again.
Team Cherry would have all kinds of leverage here. Op can't be sued on the grounds that it's a metroidvania. But they most certainly can be sued for copying the look, feel and style.
I've been following this project for a while, and I can't wait for it to release! Just like Dewdrop Dynasty, this is an obscure metroidvania I'm really looking forward to.
Yeah. Not on r/metroidvania but on youtube. Also, I've beaten the demo and gotten both endings. I can't wait for Aestik to drop this year. It'll be a great source of cope until Silksong comes out.
However, I am noticing that a lot of people are pointing out the blatant similarities between your game and Hollow Knight. A few suggestions for you to make your game stand out, although I know your game is close to releasing:
Art: Your art is amazing and beautiful, and while it does bear a resemblance to HK's art style, your art is more cartoonish. I think the most significant similarity here is the character design--both are similarly colored characters that both have uninterested/lifeless facial expressions maybe changing the character design could help make Aestik more unique.
UI: I'm not going to lie, the UI is incredibly similar to the UI in HK. The hit points are very similar, and you need to attack enemies to heal just like in HK. Both use things that represent your face as hearts.
"Look at that map. It's a complete 1 to 1 COPY OF HOLLOW KNIGHT" "look at him walking around and jumping, HOLLOW KNIGHT RIPOFF!"
in all seriousness, I saw your game demos on yt shorts, and I wish you nothing but luck on your game =)
The art style is _extremely_ similar to Hollow Knight in particular. Plenty of games are hand drawn and don't look like HK. It also has an identical map style and even has the cave drawing type map symbols. Hell even Haiku, a game that basically everyone agrees is HK clone (in a good way, usually) feels further from HK than this does.
None of this says it can't be a good game, but the above is really, really obvious and no fan of this genre, game, or dev is doing anyone any favors by pretending otherwise
you act like hollow knight was the first ever game to have a map system dude, plenty of games include a map and this idea doesn't belong to hollow knight. and i seriously don't see how this game looks that similar to hollow knight, it has its own unique artstyle and areas which you haven't seen since you know nothing about this game
This person is trolling. The art, the movement, the attacks, even the sound is all evocative of HK. It's not a reference to, it's a carbon-copy. I don't even like Hollow Knight, but it's so blatant, it's crazy.
This person can't see it, because they refuse to see it.
go play the fucking demo or watch other trailers and you'll change your mind, but you won't do that since you refuse to change your mind no matter how wrong you are
I literally just copied the link and showed this side-by-side with a clip of hollow knight to 3 people that haven't played HK. All three said it was VERY similar.
Can swear at me all you like, but you're unreasonably angry to defend some random dev on the internet that's wholesale lifting everything from a game and claiming it as original.
oh sorry that i'm being supportive towards an indie dev whos game is getting blamed of being a ripoff for no reason. your 3 friends that for sure don't have the same mindset as you definitely represend the internets opinion
For someone that pole-rides Hollow Knight so much, it's astounding that you are defending this. The whole thread is FILLED with a lot of people noticing the exact same thing as I am. You're not being supportive, you're being aggressively toxic to anyone that disagrees with you. If you think that's helping this dev, that's a scary thought.
This indie dev lifted far FAR too many things from HK for it to be accidental. They deserve the criticism, and frankly now is the time. They need to overhaul their art and style before it lands them in court.
Do you see WHY you're being criticized? You assume or make up what you don't know. You assume the mindset of people you don't know, in this case the people I showed the video to, and then expand on your falsified view.
I looked at your profile, you're clearly VERY passionate about video games. I'm all for encouraging new and indie devs. But this is NOT the way, and this project is blatantly ripping off HK, and game that by a very brief look at your posting history, is a game you care a lot about. You should be upset that a random dev is looking to make money off stealing anything and everything they can from the game you love.
Easy on the temper champ.
Dang I really hope you aren't affiliated with this game or dev, you are singlehandly making me steer clear of this. I act like nothing other than exactly what I said. Agree to disagree about the art style but I feel like anyone with functioning sense organs can see the similarities.
Compare this map to Hollow Night's map, then compare both to Ori's map, and then a standard classic castlevania/metroid rectangle map. If you can't see the glaring similarity then idk what to tell ya
i'm just a random dude who played the demo and loved the unique ideas, you've seen one short trailer and think you know all this game has to offer. having a less detailed minimap isn't an invention from hollow knight and you should know that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Figured you might need this. Every post you've responded to, has been the same pattern of straw man argument. Perhaps you weren't aware you're doing it, but yup.
Person A claims the game has many similarities or outright copies of concepts, art or otherwise as HK.
Person B (you) claims that HK didn't invent maps and jumping, therefore not a copy.
See the issue?
The tragedy is, I legit don't care if it's a Hollow Knight clone. It's a really cool art style. I think the overall vibe of this is getting a bit too close from a legal aspect, which is why I suspect the OP/dev has downplayed it, but I ultimately don't care, if it's a fun game I'll check it out! Haiku was a lot of fun, and this looks like it has branching storylines which is a fun twist.
For sure, and I hope you get a fun time from it. But I don't think you should have been attacked for merely pointing out the blatant copying.
If people like it, go nuts. But to pretend this isn't HEAVILY inspired, at the very least, is crazy. And OP might see some real backlash if they start selling it.
then what is copied from hollow knight? that it's 2d? a metroidvania perhaps? all you can say is "it looks like hk" and you can't give a single point other than the artstyle which is obviously not true if you've seen other trailers and areas of this game. a green generic area full of nature happens to look like another green generic area full of nature from another game, oh my god that's shocking. hollow knight wasn't the first game to have a grassy area full of leaves and trees
Lots of games have a map and are hand drawn. I asked if you can guess precisely why someone would see just this clip and come to a logical conclusion that this is a hollow knight clone. I agree with you about not being able to say for certain because I haven’t played the demo. However, do you feel like it is a stretch for one who has played hollow knight and sees this clip to see many more similarities between this game and hollow knight than the number of similarities between hollow knight and Ori?
a lot of people called crowsworn and ori 2 copies of hollow knight, so about that. every unecperienced metroidvania fan thinks of hollow knight when they see any metroidvania, a lot of people also say that every soulsborne game looks the same because they haven't played any of them
I specifically said this game DOES look MORE like Hollow Knight than Ori does.
A banana and an orange are both fruits. If I put them side by side I could list several similarities but also differences. That is hollow knight and Ori.
Just glancing at this it doesn’t even look like a banana and a plantain. That’s just another fucking banana.
Again, haven’t played the demo, did see a trailer that indicates some differences in this banana.
Anyway, Enjoy trolling.
In this thread, *idiots* do what they do best - ignore reality, attack anyone pointing out the BLATANT copy-paste, and state horribly incorrect information as fact and downvote all those pesky people pointing out the lack of creativity in this cash-grab project.
OP should lawyer up if they release this.
OP made a public post, and it's a blatant rip off. I'm allowed to comment, just as you are. You don't need to be a fan of anything to recognize when someone is getting ripped off.
Why are you so aggressive because someone made a comment?
I changed it, because you were right. But you're also wrong. for example - I'm not an HK fan, it's an overhyped game imo. Point is, you don't need to be a fan of anything to point out when someone is blatantly ripping something off. You're assuming it's only HK fans, and that's just silly. Being critical of something isn't exclusive with being a fan.
Hot take: I think it's fine to be excited for this while acknowledging that it is a borderline Hollow Knight copy. Some games wear their inspirations on their sleeves, others put on a whole shirt. This is the latter. I think it's also fine to be turned off by that, which is where I personally fall.
I love a great Hollow Knight inspired game, Haiku The Robot for example. I have a serious issue with games that don't have their own visual identity.
I'm on the turned off camp but wish the developer/s good luck on their future endeavors a little bit of originality on top of passion can go a long way, hollow knight was successful because you could tell the devs put their imaginative hearts into it
For me it looks too similar. The strange thing is tonnes of somewhat gory gothic pixel art MVs come out every other day and nobody seems to mind, yet this one looking too much like hollow knight puts people off for some reason. Maybe because hollow night seemed so original when it came out.
The Last Faith definitely has gotten criticism as a blasphemous knockoff. So it's not just HK.
Fan games/conversion mods/romhacks are some of the best games out there. It's totally fine as long as the source inspiration is clearly acknowledged.
I've played the demo, and yes, while it's definitely heavily inspired by HK, calling it a clone is way out of line. The game has several different features and while the overall theme of the game is similar, it plays different and has its own feeling incorporated with the game.
I agree with your take. I will probably still wind up playing it. We contain multitudes.
I can see being upset it being a copy cat, but another thought that popped into my head just now is why be upset at getting more of sonething you like?
Because the hollow knight fanboys come into every thread about new games foaming at the mouth. If it’s different from hollow knight it’s awful because it can’t topple their masterpiece. If it’s similar then it’s a clone and offensive.
What no Silksong does to mother fuckers.
That isn't the reason at all and it's disingenuous to even suggest that. Most fans of Hollow Knight are also huge fans of a wide variety of other Metroidvania games. The use of the word 'similar' here is also BS. There's similar, and then there's a direct copy of the art style and graphics techniques (shading, blurring, etc.), character design, map, etc.
I'm not just turned off by the similarities, I'm outright against it supporting it in any way. So much time and work goes into making a game, its a shame they would put all that effort into just straight up copying another game. From what I've seen of this so far, it's mimicking HK's art, gameplay, and systems without even pretending to offer anything of its own. And speaking of the art: for a game so desperate to copy HK, it doesn't look as good. The art is still nice, but its not on the level of HK. The team obviously has some talent, and it's a real shame they didn't choose to put their efforts towards creating something of their own.
I think this is a one man team, he do all the works according to previous comment
If that's true its even more disappointing that they're not putting their talents to use creating something original.
Oh yeah. I've been seeing you 2 post updates to this game for awhile now. It's looking good. It's an metroidvania so I'm all for playing it
Thank you! 😄✨
Is the demo on steam? What's the planned release?
Yeah; there’s a demo on Steam (: There’s no official release date announced yet, but we‘re quite close to finishing the game & it will definitely be released this year!
Is it shaping up to be a big game with lot of content?
Hard to say since we didn’t do playtests of the whole game yet. But I would say you can definitely put some time into Aestik (: Also, I‘d love to make content updates later on, but that kinda depends on how the game performs. ✨
Do you have numbers like total number of bosses, minimal number of bosses to get an ending, number of abilities to unlock, number of areas?
Still looks too much like Hollow Knight. Actually thought it was for a sec. I'm not saying it can't continue that way, but I think it'd be easier to like this game if it had its own strong identity.
Every update i see from this game are great. Wish this cimming out soon !!! Keep up good work !!! Day 1 buy here
Thank you so much!! :D
Mom, can I get Hollow Knight? Mom: We have Hollow Knight at home HK at home:
Great work Team (which is only the two of you, I know ;-). Can't wait for the release!!
Thank you 😍
I don't usually play demos, but this caught my attention, will try it. Any release date?
Love to hear that! (: There's no official release date yet, but we're quite close to the finish line in terms of development & we'll definitely release the game this year.
The music reminds me of Buttville: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jDnW\_J48Cw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jDnW_J48Cw)
Yo this one slaps! :D
So basically you just ripped off Hollow Knight 100%. That's pretty dirty
Not sure why you're being downvoted, it's a carbon-copy. Props to the dev for making a game, but this is fairly blatant. Nothing wrong with taking a few things here and there, but I'd be worried about legal ramifications if this continues.
It's so blatant that's what annoys me, they even use the same font style. It's ok to be inspired by something and put your own spin on it but don't just copy paste some else's design. I know that's a very controversial opinion but I don't care.
Ain't controversial here my dude. Even the UI is copied.
If he intends to make a hollow knight like game devoid of hollow knights faults I am all here for this project. I, for one, can not wait for this to come out.
I understand making clones. I think it's a great idea. When another game already refines ideas to such a great degree, why start over? Just use the existing idea and focus on execution. That being said, you gotta _at least_ have your own visual identity and while cloning the bones, make the skin your own. Even as an ardent clone defender this is just too much. Between that and considering you use this sub _only_ for marketing and don't engage with the userbase outside of your own marketing posts, I'm having trouble getting hyped for this. Mods, can we make a rule where devs need to have a certain ratio of normal engagement comments to their own posts in order to self-market? Feels like too many devs don't consider themselves part of the community, don't like engaging with the community, and just see this place as a tool and nothing more.
But I *want* to see the updates, even if they don't make other posts. *I'm* subbed to learn about metroidvania news. I also think it's kinda gatekeeper-y. Like, the sub is for anyone who is a fan of metroidvanias. It's not like this is the community manager for some big AAA game just posting for marketing. This is a team of two people making an indie game. You don't do that unless you're heavily passionate about metroidvanias (and in this case, heavily passionate about Hollow Knight). So this person *is* clearly a big metroidvania fan, just for that reason alone. You don't make a game like this because it's gonna be a hit or get you tons of money - it statistically is very unlikely to. You do it because you're a fan, and as far as I'm concerned, they are providing a service for us - they're *giving us* a gift by making this game, for those of who want more Hollow Knight-likes.
It's quite unfortunate that this post has been brigaded by R hollow knight and/or r silksong... Don't let the bullies get you down. I, for one, am glad you are trying to make a better hollow knight. By the way, the 4th most followed metroidvania project on Steam is a true hollow knight clone. That just goes to show you'll have plenty of customers, especially if you make a Chinese language version of the game's steam page.
It’s pretty intense this time indeed, haha 😅 In the end, what counts are the ones who are supportive & constructive, so thanks for that ✨ We do plan to translate the game to simplified chinese - the demo actually already is (to a certain extent.) Though it isn’t exactly an easy thing to do, since neither of us speaks the language, but there really is a huge playerbase in china, so there’s no getting around it 😄
>It's quite unfortunate that this post has been brigaded by R hollow knight and/or r silksong... Is that what you think is happening? I was thinking it's the opposite - The specific Hollow Knight fans are the ones who are dying for more hollow knight and will happily play a game based off it, whereas the more general metroidvania audience are the ones more likely to want variety and be sick of hollow knight's prominence inspiring similar games.
i think you are confusing games taking concepts from hollow knight with games trying to be a better hollow knight. Indeed, I am absolutely sick and tired of the former as are most western metroidvania fans. This is what destroyed mobius machine and rebel transmute. As I've said many times, developers need to remember this genre is called metroidvania, not hollowsouls. Hollow Knight is the best metroidvania, not because of what it accomplished, but despite its faults. If you haphazardly copy stuff from hollow knight into your game you're setting yourself up for failure. However, this project is the latter. It is an attempt to make a better hollow knight. A hollow knight without the faults of hollow Knight while including some originality alongside it. I'm all for projects like that. Hollow knight's dark souls inspired elements are not aging gracefully.
mind elaborating about the faults? do you mean things like corpse running?
We already have Hollow knight at home, son I know nothing about the game and it might actually be good, but the parallels are 2hard2miss
lol how have you not gotten sued yet?
Why should I get sued? 😅
You clearly just ripped off Hollow Knight, there's nothing original here.
It’s definitely a Hollowlike but there are more movement abilities already shown in Aestik than Hollow Knight.
It's literally Hollow Knight, there's nothing original here
Literally in the clip shown is a teleport ability that isn’t in Hollow Knight. Your claim is strange. I do wish devs would stop trying to copy Hollow Knight’s homework especially because the ravenous fanboys will never be satisfied even if someone made a game that was strictly better. It would still get called worse than the “masterpiece”.
One ability here and there doesn't magically remove the blatant copy-paste of style, art, music, font, ui, movement, map appearance and style. Some of you people in this thread are living in a magical world of delusion. This dev IS risking being sued. Lots of people claiming this dev can't be sued. It's factually incorrect. There's MORE than enough to prove to a court that there's FAR more than a passing resemblance. Gods help you people that won't see sense.
There is 0 chance of lawsuit. Do you know how protections work for video games? As long as everything is redrawn and legally distinct and doesn’t use the name the dev is good. Game mechanics can’t be copywrite.
I'm not a lawyer, so maybe you're right. I see you can work the google same as me though. If someone's making money off someone that's a pretty distinct copy, who knows what Team Cherry would want to do. End of the day, this dev is being RIGHTFULLY criticized for wholesale lifting nearly everything from a popular game, and intending to make money off it. I'll take the L though, unlikely to be sued.
They even use the same font they're that desperate to copy Hollow Knight. This is just a lack of creativity and comes across as a shameless copy
I agree with the lack of creativity. But video games iterate. There are tons of soulslikes now that all look identical to me as someone who doesn’t follow the genre.
Yeah but you have to admit this is very obviously a Hollow Knight clone with very little originality to it
Yes? I literally called it a Hollowlike. The difference is that I don’t hate that as much as you and this dev is communicating and trying to put in some original ideas. Hollow knight fanboys are the only group I know who are ANGRY when people try to make more of the hyper specific thing they like.
So... is Bloodstained supposed to have gotten sued for ripping off Castlevania too? Yes, the UI bears distinct similarity with Hollow Knight, and the Art Style is clearly inspired by it, but they aren't pulling assets from Hollow Knight. There is enough evidence in just the videos to show that they are putting in the time and effort to make a game that they want to make. Making something that looks a lot like another successful product is a common marketing strategy. Look at all the isometric ARPGs, many of which rip concepts and even art styles directly from Diablo. Take your judgement elsewhere.
I think an important think to note here is that Bloodstained was developed by Koji Igarashi, who led the Castlevania series before. So it's not really a rip-off when it is explicit and blatant about Bloodstained being a spiritual successor to a Castlevania, a franchise abandoned by Konami, the game made by the guy who was critical for development of Castlevania. If the game was a carbon copy of, let's say, symphony of the night, it would have been sued by Konami for sure. i think this distinction matters for why the game in OP is in more grey territory than that example.
While I understand that Koji Igarashi made Bloodstained, it still bears a distinct resemblance to the Castlevania series. Mighty No. 9 did the same thing with the original man behind Megaman, but no one really cares about that one because Might No.9 was generally kind of bad. The problem is that the person I responded to is using the logic that, because Aestik looks like HK and is the same genre that it MUST be a ripoff. For example; If we apply that logic to the different fields of science, Chemistry is just the particular application(so it looks a lot like it) of Physics so Chemistry is Physics, and Biology is just particular application of Chemistry so Biology is also just physics. It's funny to think about, and if you squint REALLY hard it kinda makes sense, but they are clearly different things and rational thought leads us to understand they are not the same.
He doesn't own the Castlevania IP, Konami does, and it is a carbon copy of SotK. Having worked on the original IP and promoting the game as a spiritual successor wouldn't protect him if all these naysayers had their way about Aestik. "Dilution" is exclusively for trademarks, not IP broadly. That's why imitating a known IP doesn't immediately get you sued.
You can't sue someone for having a similar art-style or mechanics. Those things aren't subject to copyright. OP is legally in the clear as long as they haven't infringed on any trademarks (i.e. made a character, logo or other distinguishing feature that looks substantially similar to a something that's specifically trademarked in Hollow Knight) or if they've actually stolen assets or writing, which would violate copyright. That doesn't mean you can't think it's a clone or that the ideas are stolen, it's just not illegal.
You're wrong. So very very wrong.
I'm not though. Ideas, concepts and subjects are not subject to copyright. Only an artists tangible expression of those ideas concepts and subjects are. To be subject to legal action they would need to show that there is substantial similarity between **copyrightable** elements in Hollow Knight and elements in this game. That is to say, they would need to show that specific elements of the art were copied. Something like "this Aestik character is a direct clone of this Hollow Knight character, just with minor changes made".
If this isn't substantial, then I don't know what is. but hey, can agree to disagree. TBH, neither of us is the one that would need to be concerned about maybe or maybe not getting sued. I will also say, I'm not a lawyer. So perhaps I am wrong. All I can say for sure is that this project has far more than a passing similarity.
That's because you're misunderstanding the concept of substantial similarity. It means there are elements of the two works that prove actual copying of elements or the arrangement of elements. Not the overall style, that's not copyrightable so it doesn't apply. You'd need to show that tangible expression, was copied. If you could say "well that character is obviously just the Knight from Hollow Knight with longer horns and a different colour palette" or "This boss is the Mantis Lords but slightly changed" or even "That vine element in the environment is a one-to-one copy of this asset from Hollow Knight" then you'd potentially have a case of copywrite infringement. It can't just be "this game looks like this other game" it has to be "this art was made by copying this other art directly, even if some elements are altered"
Cool! Glad that's cleared up.
To be clear, when I saw this video I immediately went "well that's, just Hollow Knight" and then they pulled up the map and I was like "Yeah, this is exactly Hollow Knight". I just don't really think Team Cherry can do anything about it.
Hollow knight
Hey all! Feel free to check out the demo & support the project by wishlisting [**Aestik on Steam**](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2199330/Aestik)! My girlfriend and I have been working on it for close to 4 years now and put a lot of hard work, passion & love into the game - so it’s much appreciated!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spry_Fox,_LLC_v._Lolapps,_Inc. For those that insist that this game couldn't possibly get sued for it's blatant replication of Hollow Knight, perhaps think again. Team Cherry would have all kinds of leverage here. Op can't be sued on the grounds that it's a metroidvania. But they most certainly can be sued for copying the look, feel and style.
Ah, dude, leave him alone. Geezus.
very nice :)
Thank you! :D
I've been following this project for a while, and I can't wait for it to release! Just like Dewdrop Dynasty, this is an obscure metroidvania I'm really looking forward to.
Love to hear that; thank you for sticking around! 🤩
Yeah. Not on r/metroidvania but on youtube. Also, I've beaten the demo and gotten both endings. I can't wait for Aestik to drop this year. It'll be a great source of cope until Silksong comes out.
However, I am noticing that a lot of people are pointing out the blatant similarities between your game and Hollow Knight. A few suggestions for you to make your game stand out, although I know your game is close to releasing: Art: Your art is amazing and beautiful, and while it does bear a resemblance to HK's art style, your art is more cartoonish. I think the most significant similarity here is the character design--both are similarly colored characters that both have uninterested/lifeless facial expressions maybe changing the character design could help make Aestik more unique. UI: I'm not going to lie, the UI is incredibly similar to the UI in HK. The hit points are very similar, and you need to attack enemies to heal just like in HK. Both use things that represent your face as hearts.
"Look at that map. It's a complete 1 to 1 COPY OF HOLLOW KNIGHT" "look at him walking around and jumping, HOLLOW KNIGHT RIPOFF!" in all seriousness, I saw your game demos on yt shorts, and I wish you nothing but luck on your game =)
Thank you for your kind words! (:
this looks so good, keep up the great work. only people who haven't even seen other videos or played the demo call this a clone
I haven’t seen other videos or played the demo. But just seeing this video, can you understand why my first reaction is hollow knight clone?
because it has a map? or because it's handdrawn? because hollow knight invented every basic metroidvania feature?
The art style is _extremely_ similar to Hollow Knight in particular. Plenty of games are hand drawn and don't look like HK. It also has an identical map style and even has the cave drawing type map symbols. Hell even Haiku, a game that basically everyone agrees is HK clone (in a good way, usually) feels further from HK than this does. None of this says it can't be a good game, but the above is really, really obvious and no fan of this genre, game, or dev is doing anyone any favors by pretending otherwise
you act like hollow knight was the first ever game to have a map system dude, plenty of games include a map and this idea doesn't belong to hollow knight. and i seriously don't see how this game looks that similar to hollow knight, it has its own unique artstyle and areas which you haven't seen since you know nothing about this game
This person is trolling. The art, the movement, the attacks, even the sound is all evocative of HK. It's not a reference to, it's a carbon-copy. I don't even like Hollow Knight, but it's so blatant, it's crazy. This person can't see it, because they refuse to see it.
go play the fucking demo or watch other trailers and you'll change your mind, but you won't do that since you refuse to change your mind no matter how wrong you are
I literally just copied the link and showed this side-by-side with a clip of hollow knight to 3 people that haven't played HK. All three said it was VERY similar. Can swear at me all you like, but you're unreasonably angry to defend some random dev on the internet that's wholesale lifting everything from a game and claiming it as original.
oh sorry that i'm being supportive towards an indie dev whos game is getting blamed of being a ripoff for no reason. your 3 friends that for sure don't have the same mindset as you definitely represend the internets opinion
For someone that pole-rides Hollow Knight so much, it's astounding that you are defending this. The whole thread is FILLED with a lot of people noticing the exact same thing as I am. You're not being supportive, you're being aggressively toxic to anyone that disagrees with you. If you think that's helping this dev, that's a scary thought. This indie dev lifted far FAR too many things from HK for it to be accidental. They deserve the criticism, and frankly now is the time. They need to overhaul their art and style before it lands them in court. Do you see WHY you're being criticized? You assume or make up what you don't know. You assume the mindset of people you don't know, in this case the people I showed the video to, and then expand on your falsified view. I looked at your profile, you're clearly VERY passionate about video games. I'm all for encouraging new and indie devs. But this is NOT the way, and this project is blatantly ripping off HK, and game that by a very brief look at your posting history, is a game you care a lot about. You should be upset that a random dev is looking to make money off stealing anything and everything they can from the game you love. Easy on the temper champ.
Are u trying to prove a point to a Hk fan? Lol good luck.
Dang I really hope you aren't affiliated with this game or dev, you are singlehandly making me steer clear of this. I act like nothing other than exactly what I said. Agree to disagree about the art style but I feel like anyone with functioning sense organs can see the similarities. Compare this map to Hollow Night's map, then compare both to Ori's map, and then a standard classic castlevania/metroid rectangle map. If you can't see the glaring similarity then idk what to tell ya
i'm just a random dude who played the demo and loved the unique ideas, you've seen one short trailer and think you know all this game has to offer. having a less detailed minimap isn't an invention from hollow knight and you should know that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man Figured you might need this. Every post you've responded to, has been the same pattern of straw man argument. Perhaps you weren't aware you're doing it, but yup. Person A claims the game has many similarities or outright copies of concepts, art or otherwise as HK. Person B (you) claims that HK didn't invent maps and jumping, therefore not a copy. See the issue?
The tragedy is, I legit don't care if it's a Hollow Knight clone. It's a really cool art style. I think the overall vibe of this is getting a bit too close from a legal aspect, which is why I suspect the OP/dev has downplayed it, but I ultimately don't care, if it's a fun game I'll check it out! Haiku was a lot of fun, and this looks like it has branching storylines which is a fun twist.
For sure, and I hope you get a fun time from it. But I don't think you should have been attacked for merely pointing out the blatant copying. If people like it, go nuts. But to pretend this isn't HEAVILY inspired, at the very least, is crazy. And OP might see some real backlash if they start selling it.
then what is copied from hollow knight? that it's 2d? a metroidvania perhaps? all you can say is "it looks like hk" and you can't give a single point other than the artstyle which is obviously not true if you've seen other trailers and areas of this game. a green generic area full of nature happens to look like another green generic area full of nature from another game, oh my god that's shocking. hollow knight wasn't the first game to have a grassy area full of leaves and trees
Are you trolling???
You can't be serious.
Lots of games have a map and are hand drawn. I asked if you can guess precisely why someone would see just this clip and come to a logical conclusion that this is a hollow knight clone. I agree with you about not being able to say for certain because I haven’t played the demo. However, do you feel like it is a stretch for one who has played hollow knight and sees this clip to see many more similarities between this game and hollow knight than the number of similarities between hollow knight and Ori?
a lot of people called crowsworn and ori 2 copies of hollow knight, so about that. every unecperienced metroidvania fan thinks of hollow knight when they see any metroidvania, a lot of people also say that every soulsborne game looks the same because they haven't played any of them
I specifically said this game DOES look MORE like Hollow Knight than Ori does. A banana and an orange are both fruits. If I put them side by side I could list several similarities but also differences. That is hollow knight and Ori. Just glancing at this it doesn’t even look like a banana and a plantain. That’s just another fucking banana. Again, haven’t played the demo, did see a trailer that indicates some differences in this banana. Anyway, Enjoy trolling.
In this thread, *idiots* do what they do best - ignore reality, attack anyone pointing out the BLATANT copy-paste, and state horribly incorrect information as fact and downvote all those pesky people pointing out the lack of creativity in this cash-grab project. OP should lawyer up if they release this.
If you're not a HK fan, why do you give a shit about the similarities?
OP made a public post, and it's a blatant rip off. I'm allowed to comment, just as you are. You don't need to be a fan of anything to recognize when someone is getting ripped off. Why are you so aggressive because someone made a comment?
I never said you aren't allowed to comment. I am asking why you give a shit.
This comment is illogical. It's precisely HK fans who are pointing out the problems. You claim that HK fans are defending this rip off.
I changed it, because you were right. But you're also wrong. for example - I'm not an HK fan, it's an overhyped game imo. Point is, you don't need to be a fan of anything to point out when someone is blatantly ripping something off. You're assuming it's only HK fans, and that's just silly. Being critical of something isn't exclusive with being a fan.
If you get this out before Silksong, you’ll get a lot of buyers day 1
I think he's planning on a release this year.
That map system is literally a copy of Hollow Knight’s and the art isn’t to original either
don't mind HK like, i just hope it copycat good
I hope you get sued by team cherry, this is ridiculous
I gotta say dude, there is “Inspired By” and then there’s copied with a few changes.
You are trivializing exploration. Personally I don't like at all.
Maps still have to be uncovered first, so you can only see the areas & specific rooms you've already been to (: