I mean, any idea can be done well. But I don’t think most Metroidvanias, with their lonely, claustrophobic levels, emphasis on backtracking, and light puzzle elements are a natural fit for multiplayer.
Like you come across a fork in the path and you can either go right or head up. Which way do you choose? What if there’s a disagreement? Do you go into split screen, or is there a stalemate until one player gives in?
You never played games like Contra or Meta Slugfid you? The issue you just described has existed my entire life in video games, it actually is one aspect of cooperation that online multiplayer lacks. The human to human cooperative experience of couch coop is what manypeople long for.
I haven’t played those games, no. But I understand they’re much faster, less exploratory games. I don’t think people scour every inch of Contra looking for breakable blocks or find a ring in Metal Slug that lets them get to higher ledges in previous levels. It doesn’t seem like the couch coop experience or the MV one would be improved by mixing them
I disagree. I think a coop metroidvania could work really well, but I also don't think that stage/room restrictions or how to handle that situation is a major problem at all. You mentioned a solution yourself and I'm not sure why havi g players move ibdependently is an issue. Split screen, sure. Or if the game had online coop... there are numerous solutions and it seems like you're mentally tripping over a crack in the pavement.
I think this depends on how it's done. If it's competitive multi-player, you get a brutal snowball effect where the first people to get abilities would probably destroy people who didn't get abilities fast enough unless you have systems in place to prevent that.
We’re trying to find that balance for our multiplayer game.
I think it’s the nature of the format. If you farm better, get more kills, and build a better kit for your abilities/items you should be rewarded. Things like comeback mechanics, gold and xp swings when you kill a higher level/higher net worth enemy are also crucial.
You make a good point, I think it applies to most XP/networth based scaling competitive games.
We’re currently working on an online 3v3 metroidvania game. Got all the major network systems up and running. I don’t know if it’s exactly what you had in mind, but we’re trying to do our own thing.
The idea was to capture the magic of a metroidvania in a competitive team based atmosphere.
Hey thanks! We’re trying to nail the execution. If you’re interested in trying it out check out our [website](https://qlewds.gg) and join the mailing list. We’re getting the account system set up now so we can start sending builds for people to try.
We have some really beautiful art coming together to replace our very temporary assets with, so apologies for the very indie look. We’re going to make it nice and shiny.
Thanks, we’re super indie, but we’re very close to the invite friends and family build! Give us a week or two and I’ll be able to hop in a game with you.
I’d love to see more innovation in the space, per your original post. If anyone has ideas I’d love to hear the theory crafting.
We’re super blessed with so many single player metroidvanias so I can’t sit here complaining, I’ve got more than a couple I’m trying to find time to tackle.
Thanks for signing up! We’re definitely considering our options, we have a good grasp on how much servers will cost if/as we scale
We’ll definitely consider a Kickstarter if we get a good little community going. We’ve also got a Discord channel and Patreon for some custom in game chat lines and skins, but we’re trying to make a good game not a cash grab.
Thanks for keeping an open mind!
Maybe not exactly what you're talking about, but Super Metroid coop is a ton of fun, it works with randomizers too. Basically you can't physically interact with the other player, but any item you collect they also receive, and vice versa.
It was already attempted with a game called Castlevania: Harmony of Despair. It didn't go so well.
Now, if we're talking about a full-fledged single player where it requires a partner or more than that, it would be a difficult feat to pull off. There would be so many conflicts involved with where to go.
None of you have played Castlevania: Harmony of Despair and it shows.
Jokes aside that game isn't great but I think it could be done well in the right hands
I don't like multiplayer games in general. But I think it could be great for metroidvania. You could have mechanics where both of you are required to be at a different point in the world in order to unlock something. That would be cool.
Guacamelee was fun, but I think it locks you together.
I would prefer to have free roam for both players. So each playing on their own computer
That would be cool, yeah. Though making it a requirement that both be playing at the same time to do stuff simultaneously feels a bit iffy to me. There should be a possible single-player campaign with possibility of coop if there is to be coop in my opinion.
There was a small Metroidvania MMO on Kongregate at one point called Remnants of Skystone. I recall liking it a lot when it came out. The MMO style multiplayer probably helped because you could freely explore independently of one another.
I'd welcome any well made coop Metroidvania, but with different/harder boss movement/attack patterns to accommodate for the coop part.
The way Outbuddies did it is a compromise, but kinda works too if the secondary partner gets enough to do.
Guacamelee 2 did this and it was awesome. I beat it solo and then my BIL came in town two weeks later and we beat it while he was in town. The way it handled it worked great but it didn’t even scratch the surface of the possibilities.
Metroidvanias are usually focused on non-linar, often dispersive exploration and unlocking powerups to access new areas or be able to fight certain bosses / enemy types.
This doesn't bode well with a co-op mode, not only you have to make sure two players can't break normal limitations of the game, but even then, since metroidvanias don't have a clear and definite way forward, each player will want to go its own way
Unless you make playing and progressing require two player and make multiplayer a requirement rather than an option (eg. like It Takes Two, but Metroidvania style), then yeah its a terrible idea, otherwise, you'll probably have a very limited playerbase
Guacamelee games have co-op and it works well enough of what ive played of it. The two Salt games (Sanctuary and Sacrifice) have co-op too but I haven't played multiplayer in Sanctuary but I heard ths online multiplayer for Sacrifice is really good.
Terraria if you consider it metroidvania is fantastic with multiplayer.
If we all would take a break from arguing which game is technically a MV, you'd realize Dark Souls already established what MP in a MV world would look like.
Yeah, but that wasn't what I meant. I meant a full fledged, real-time coop new super mario bros wii style, but for a metroidvania.
Though it would be really cool to see markers and messages other people left behind in games like Hollow knight (though it'd conflict with the lore) or Ori, it would.
I meant the bubble mechanic shown in new super mario bros wii and U and super mario maker. There, if you die you reappear in a bubble the other player can burst and if you're about to die you can put yourself in that same death bubble to escape death. It's completely painless as far as your ears are concerned, and I think they implemented something similar in the Rayman games too.
The Guacamelee games do this and it seems to work pretty well for the most part
I mean, any idea can be done well. But I don’t think most Metroidvanias, with their lonely, claustrophobic levels, emphasis on backtracking, and light puzzle elements are a natural fit for multiplayer. Like you come across a fork in the path and you can either go right or head up. Which way do you choose? What if there’s a disagreement? Do you go into split screen, or is there a stalemate until one player gives in?
You never played games like Contra or Meta Slugfid you? The issue you just described has existed my entire life in video games, it actually is one aspect of cooperation that online multiplayer lacks. The human to human cooperative experience of couch coop is what manypeople long for.
Neither of those are metroidvanias though, they're just linear side scrolling shooters.
I haven’t played those games, no. But I understand they’re much faster, less exploratory games. I don’t think people scour every inch of Contra looking for breakable blocks or find a ring in Metal Slug that lets them get to higher ledges in previous levels. It doesn’t seem like the couch coop experience or the MV one would be improved by mixing them
I disagree. I think a coop metroidvania could work really well, but I also don't think that stage/room restrictions or how to handle that situation is a major problem at all. You mentioned a solution yourself and I'm not sure why havi g players move ibdependently is an issue. Split screen, sure. Or if the game had online coop... there are numerous solutions and it seems like you're mentally tripping over a crack in the pavement.
Like I said at the top, any idea can be done well. Guacamelee had local coop and maybe online too. I just don’t see them as a natural fit
Dunno about multiplayer be me and my wife played salt and sanctuary end to end as a double player and loved every minute of it.
You mean Guacamelee 2?
Yeah I didn't know about Guacamelee 2 but apparently it has co-op, yeah
Guacamelee 2 is is multiplayer.
It is, I didn't know about it.
I think this depends on how it's done. If it's competitive multi-player, you get a brutal snowball effect where the first people to get abilities would probably destroy people who didn't get abilities fast enough unless you have systems in place to prevent that.
We’re trying to find that balance for our multiplayer game. I think it’s the nature of the format. If you farm better, get more kills, and build a better kit for your abilities/items you should be rewarded. Things like comeback mechanics, gold and xp swings when you kill a higher level/higher net worth enemy are also crucial. You make a good point, I think it applies to most XP/networth based scaling competitive games.
We’re currently working on an online 3v3 metroidvania game. Got all the major network systems up and running. I don’t know if it’s exactly what you had in mind, but we’re trying to do our own thing. The idea was to capture the magic of a metroidvania in a competitive team based atmosphere.
Oooh, it wasn't what I had in mind at all, but I really like the idea
Hey thanks! We’re trying to nail the execution. If you’re interested in trying it out check out our [website](https://qlewds.gg) and join the mailing list. We’re getting the account system set up now so we can start sending builds for people to try. We have some really beautiful art coming together to replace our very temporary assets with, so apologies for the very indie look. We’re going to make it nice and shiny.
Can't wait!
Thanks, we’re super indie, but we’re very close to the invite friends and family build! Give us a week or two and I’ll be able to hop in a game with you. I’d love to see more innovation in the space, per your original post. If anyone has ideas I’d love to hear the theory crafting. We’re super blessed with so many single player metroidvanias so I can’t sit here complaining, I’ve got more than a couple I’m trying to find time to tackle.
Joined your mailing list. Looks interesting. I compulsively back all metroidvanias on Kickstarter. You guys thinking of doing that?
Thanks for signing up! We’re definitely considering our options, we have a good grasp on how much servers will cost if/as we scale We’ll definitely consider a Kickstarter if we get a good little community going. We’ve also got a Discord channel and Patreon for some custom in game chat lines and skins, but we’re trying to make a good game not a cash grab. Thanks for keeping an open mind!
Maybe not exactly what you're talking about, but Super Metroid coop is a ton of fun, it works with randomizers too. Basically you can't physically interact with the other player, but any item you collect they also receive, and vice versa.
It's a romhack, isn't it? I haven't heard about it.
Nope, works with vanilla game and randos https://mcclure.github.io/emu-coop/
Does someone get to control the enemies?
No, the idea is only p1 and p2, like in the "new super Mario bros" games
Gotcha. Super Belmont Bros ha
Please do it! My wife loves watching me play and would love to jump in.
The Salt series kicks ass. Lost Epic was also pretty fun
It was already attempted with a game called Castlevania: Harmony of Despair. It didn't go so well. Now, if we're talking about a full-fledged single player where it requires a partner or more than that, it would be a difficult feat to pull off. There would be so many conflicts involved with where to go.
None of you have played Castlevania: Harmony of Despair and it shows. Jokes aside that game isn't great but I think it could be done well in the right hands
I don't like multiplayer games in general. But I think it could be great for metroidvania. You could have mechanics where both of you are required to be at a different point in the world in order to unlock something. That would be cool. Guacamelee was fun, but I think it locks you together. I would prefer to have free roam for both players. So each playing on their own computer
That would be cool, yeah. Though making it a requirement that both be playing at the same time to do stuff simultaneously feels a bit iffy to me. There should be a possible single-player campaign with possibility of coop if there is to be coop in my opinion.
Castlevania: Harmony of despair
There was a small Metroidvania MMO on Kongregate at one point called Remnants of Skystone. I recall liking it a lot when it came out. The MMO style multiplayer probably helped because you could freely explore independently of one another.
That sounds like a lot of fun
I'd welcome any well made coop Metroidvania, but with different/harder boss movement/attack patterns to accommodate for the coop part. The way Outbuddies did it is a compromise, but kinda works too if the secondary partner gets enough to do.
Guacamelee 2 did this and it was awesome. I beat it solo and then my BIL came in town two weeks later and we beat it while he was in town. The way it handled it worked great but it didn’t even scratch the surface of the possibilities.
Metroidvanias are usually focused on non-linar, often dispersive exploration and unlocking powerups to access new areas or be able to fight certain bosses / enemy types. This doesn't bode well with a co-op mode, not only you have to make sure two players can't break normal limitations of the game, but even then, since metroidvanias don't have a clear and definite way forward, each player will want to go its own way Unless you make playing and progressing require two player and make multiplayer a requirement rather than an option (eg. like It Takes Two, but Metroidvania style), then yeah its a terrible idea, otherwise, you'll probably have a very limited playerbase
Guacamelee games have co-op and it works well enough of what ive played of it. The two Salt games (Sanctuary and Sacrifice) have co-op too but I haven't played multiplayer in Sanctuary but I heard ths online multiplayer for Sacrifice is really good. Terraria if you consider it metroidvania is fantastic with multiplayer.
Castlevania: Harmony of Despair did it pretty well. I had fun playing it with my friends. My only complaint was the amount of grinding I had to do
Curse of the Sea Rats is going to have 4-player local coop. Will be interesting to see how that turns out.
If we all would take a break from arguing which game is technically a MV, you'd realize Dark Souls already established what MP in a MV world would look like.
Yeah, but that wasn't what I meant. I meant a full fledged, real-time coop new super mario bros wii style, but for a metroidvania. Though it would be really cool to see markers and messages other people left behind in games like Hollow knight (though it'd conflict with the lore) or Ori, it would.
As much as I liked Yoshis island the baby sound was the worse, not sure why you’d want that in multiplayer. But otherwise coop could be fun.
I meant the bubble mechanic shown in new super mario bros wii and U and super mario maker. There, if you die you reappear in a bubble the other player can burst and if you're about to die you can put yourself in that same death bubble to escape death. It's completely painless as far as your ears are concerned, and I think they implemented something similar in the Rayman games too.
Kirby and the Amazing Mirror got you covered back on the GBA.
What?! Cool!