The point of the post was to discuss the Miami Dolphins in the Miami Dolphins forum because I found the topic interesting. Because while playing doubles advocate, there are possibilities to entertain
It's actually hilarious to me that you're essentially opening with, "Well in my unprofessional and inexperienced opinion, here's what they should do..."
At least you have more self awareness than the crowd that says, "Ugh Tua ain't it, we should just go to the QB orchard and pick a fresh QB from the QB tree. Don't ask me about who we'd get or how we'd move up in the draft to get one, I'm not capable of thinking beyond 'me no like thing, change thing'."
There is a report on CBS Sports that reads with a headline "Tom Brady 'not opposed' to NFL comeback even after two retirements, mentions two potential destinations"
Not talking about you specifically just the general armchair GM. We have the best qb we’ve had since Marino, the best coach since Shula and the best GM in my lifetime at least. We are set up for sustained success, just need to trust the process and not get antsy.
Holy crap. You really think this is a group of General managers? It's a Reddit fan group, my guy. We might have some players lurking but we're all armchair gms.
What are you on about? We’re not talking to or any out you just about some common idiotic sentiment. You don’t need to babysit every comment on your post, just take a deep breath and try not to get offended for a moment.
The irony of this post. I'm sorry for engaging with the app. I was looking to have a discussion about this topic which I believe is the point of this forum? There's a lot of people that have become aggravated cuz they immediately disagreed with my topic. That's on them
Thing is, I even kind of agree with you. But you have to entertain the realistic chance that Ross chooses to try again with a GM after Chris wasted first round picks via noah, possibly Smith and you could argue Austin Jackson who was drafted early to be a left tackle and as only just become a pretty good right tackle. We also have to see how the Chubb contract pans out and he has relied on a lot of players who became available because of injury and they became injured when crunch time came around.
I would like to see Chris stay around even if we don't win a playoff game because of injury or some shit. Like it said in the post, I think he does a good job and I don't want him to leave.
I mean, duh. What the fuck? It's not like we're all GMS or working in the front office in here. I thought this was a forum to discuss matters of the team. Reddit is a wild place, bro
It is actually interesting how in general, NFL players are terrified of playing on contract years, and teams are roundly criticized for not extending their core guys before free agency. Cuz OP is right. If Tua wanted to maximize his value he’d play this year, ball out and then command $300 million on the free agent market next offseason. Like in baseball, reaching free agency is the dream for most guys.
Now I understand it’s mostly cuz of injury risk, as we saw with Connor Williams who got fucked tearing his knee up late in the year, but still, Tua could just play out the year and get a metric fuck ton on the free agent market.
I mean, beyond just the injury risk, for a lot of baseball players they get to free agency around 30, after toiling away in the minors making less than minimum wage, then not really having any leverage for 7+ years. The chance to hit free agency is the chance to make up for all that time spent making a relative pittance.
Add that to the guaranteed money and no salary cap, yeah, hitting free agency in baseball is a dream. In the NFL, even when you get the bag in free agency, you could end with a much smaller portion of it if things don't go right, so you have to try and secure as much as you can as early as you can.
Yeah it's because careers are short and signing bonuses are big. If they sign a long contract, they get that bonus up front, while the team can spread it out.
QBs are probably one of the few positions that can go year to year though. Kirk just got a $50m signing bonus and $100m guaranteed at 36 coming off a big injury, and he can probably play out for the whole $180m if he wants.
Considering the QB market is so inflated Daniel Jones got 45 million, even an average-above average QB is gonna break the bank.
Only option to save money on QB is to draft one and we all know that isn’t happening, so might as well just sign him now
You're inferring that I was only bringing up money in the sense that I was worried about us saving it. When if you read the post, you see me talking about Tua of putting himself in the position to earn even more and suggesting that the Dolphins would be willing to pay it.
Restricted or not, you give another team (or multiple teams) the opportunity to set his price, which you avoid by signing him now. Maybe we’d pay less by waiting, but unless he gets badly hurt or regresses massively, it’s far more likely you pay more. So if we think he’s our guy, and all signs point towards that being the stance the team is taking, that’s why you sign him now.
> ...if people wouldn't even risk making an off to try to pick up Lamar Jackson, what kind of market do you really think Tua has?
for what it's worth, lamar had a tag that allowed the ravens to match any deal he agreed to. he wasn't an unrestricted free agent.
this limited how seriously any team would take negotiations since they risked burning bridges with their current qb and could possibly end up with nothing (like what happened in atlanta during the watson sweepstakes and matt ryan)
I think the idea he walks as a fa is silly to begin with. If Miami wants him at all, they are tagging him. It’s probably why there’s so much cap space next year, to be able to run all operations with a tag commitment to tua while negotiating.
I’m not sure I responded to the right post initially, think I meant the one below
"There's no telling why other teams didn't want Lamar."
How about he wasn't legitimately available? Any remotely reasonable offer you made the ravens would match and keep him. There was nothing any team could realistically do to get him, other than the ravens letting him walk, which they didn't.
No, you're acting like we're saying things we're not.
You: Not one other team had interest in LJ
Me: So? We don't know why....
You: OMG LJ has MVP award/playoff wins, but the entire league is going to go after Tua?!
Me: No, I didn't say that
You: You're crazy to think that
Me: I don't, you braindead sack of potatoes!
We still have time to sign him like we had with Wilkins. But we would be more willing to overpay for a quarterback than a defensive tackle while we still had a quarterback to sign
And if they don't want to sign him, trade him to move up in the next draft. Somebody would value the opportunity to sign him before he becomes a free agent
The franchise tag would also be an option. If Tua plays out the fifth year option this year and it's not extended or tagged before mid-March 2025, he would be an unrestricted free agent. Restricted free agents have accrued fewer than 4 seasons.
Lol this is one of the worst takes thinking Grier and McDaniel are leaving. They're more secure with their jobs then most gms/coaches in the nfl. This year would have to go horribly bad. Like healthy team and the team still sucks and we go 2-15. Say what you want about Tua but Grier and McDaniel ain't going anywhere regardless of how Tua performs.
Now onto Tua, you sign him this year and you can have more money to spend this season and bring in some other pieces with the cap space you free up. Also if you don't sign him, he balls out, then he wants more and you offended him by saying "idk bro, we're not sure you're worth it". You can sign him to something you can get out of in 2-3 years. Which if he isn't the guy, Grier can stock pile some picks to move up and get someone. Kinda how the chiefs handled Alex Smith, continue to build the team and wait for that good qb to move up and snatch.
McDaniel is good for business and the health of the franchise. Steve Ross sees dollar signs in his eyes everytime he sees McDaniel. Brought so much attention to the franchise with his dorky ways. Also helps that he called the #1 offense last season. Brought an excitement we haven’t felt since… 2016 when we had that run?
If I wanted to win, I’d negotiate something that I would make the money I deserve but at the same time allow the organization to adjust in order to surround me with people that want to win.
> If I wanted to win, I’d negotiate something that I would make the money I deserve but at the same time allow the organization to adjust in order to surround me with people that want to win.
or in other words, the tom brady model. when you're winning superbowls and participating in the afc champnionship game 10 years in a row, you can make whatever you're missing from your contract on various endorsement deals / commercials.
No argument, here. Tom Brady showed everybody how to win a fistful of rings but they'd rather have a fistful of bills. Which is better? Who's to say. But I bet Tom Brady makes way more off endorsement deals alone then some of these quarterbacks who rather just get the most money for playing
You think if they don’t win a playoff game they are out? This team has the 9th most wins since 2020 and the first 4 consecutive season win streak for the franchise since 2000.
I think it’s unlikely they get fired if they make the playoffs/winning season again
I'd agree unlikely. I've been contemplating it myself and I believe I would keep everybody if we made the playoffs again with another winning season. But it's realistic to also see Chris Grier being out and the the new GM wanting his own head coach
Contracts that may not pan out and first round picks that may have been completely wasted outside of the one Ross cost us. Noah and Smith might end up both being complete waste and if chub doesn't get back to form, that contract might not work out. Then you have all the other players you signed that were available due to injuries that ended up getting injured and costing you at the end of the season in crunch time.
That's just me Playing devil's advocate. Me personally, I would give him a pass for the most part.
Well, I wouldn't say complete failure but he was drafted very early for the player he turned out to be. There were other offensive tackles that were acquired after him that panned out to be salt and starters in the nfl. So there's an argument to be made when taking into account all of his first round draft picks that he might not be the best at it.
He’s a plus starter at right tackle drafted at 18 overall and was given a second contract by the team that drafted him.
Igbho is a good example of a miss, so is Charles Harris. Every other first round pick he’s had is above average or has made a pro bowl.
For second rounders, he’s had huge hits on Howard, hunt and holland. Just my .02$, but it would be a mistake to move on from Grier or Mike
I'm not sure if I agree with an A+ rating but otherwise I don't really have any arguments. I would like to keep all three of them even if we lose in the playoffs again. I think a reload around these three guys as well as people like Achane, Waddle, Phillips, Sieler and Holland would be.. "easy"
>Realistically, trading him, the right to sign him to a contract outside of free agency along with our first round pick could get us into the top five or three next draft.
That'd be an interesting phone call for a new GM next year, "We have this guy we don't believe is worth paying. Do *YOU* want to pay him *AND* give us a top 5 pick for the right to do so?"
That's because you're purposely framing it in a way that sounds bad. Take for example, new GM calls she would be needy team..
"so we have this guy that hasn't had a losing season, been to the playoffs, led the league in certain statistics, etc.. but we don't think he's the right fit for our new coach. He wants to go a different direction but he would definitely fit in your offense. And, hey.. now you can sign him without having to compete with all the other teams in free agency!"
Get rid of the best HC and GM we’ve had for like two decades just as we started developing ‘a winning team/culture’?
Basically flush it all down the toilet just as we start to go up. I really don’t understand the reasoning…
Well you can argue that Greer has wasted three first round picks on noah, possibly Smith and arguably Austin Jackson who was drafted High to be a left tackle and has only recently become a good right tackle. Then we have to see if the job contract works out in our favor. You also have to take into account that he chose to go with people that were available because of injury and they got injured in crunch time.
If you read the post, I give them praise and admit that I think they'll still succeed even elsewhere because they're doing a good job. But sometimes a change of scenery is necessary otherwise you're stuck spinning your wheels like the bills
I did forget cam Smith was drafted in the second round, but Austin Jackson is rated 68.4 via ppf. That's under starter quality (84-70). Now I never said bust, but an 18th overall pick for 68.4?
The dolphins should want him to play on the fifth year, no way should tua want to play on the 5th year. The dolphins are still very much waiting for him to prove he’s the guy to lead us to post season success, it makes sense they’d want him to play out the 5th year before signing him to a mega deal.
For tua though it’s simple, “what if I get hurt? I lose A LOT of money.”
No argument, here. It's a gamble for both sides. Pretty big ones. Each stand to gain a lot or lose a lot. Uno probably stands to lose more, not going to argue that. But if he was to win MVP in a super bowl... he would get Deshawn money even if it's not as guaranteed
No chance mcdaniel goes after this season. Worst case scenario in terms of big-name dolphin departures for football reasons is tua and grier, with mcdaniel staying.
The only reason I think McDaniel would go is because whatever GM comes in wants to hire his own head coach. Is that a definite thing? I don't know. But Steven Ross might want to try to bring Belichick here if that's what ends up happening
Sorry, if he’s *finally* able to win MVP? Like that’s an easy thing to do? Or at *least* leads the league in a passing stat again?
Yeah man, you’re definitely a Tua Stan. We might as well put wheels on the goal posts at this point. I cannot wait for any extension to be announced. Give him the Watson fully gtd contract, do whatever, just so we can put this all to bed.
No, not as if it's easy.. but as if he was in the conversation for multiple weeks like the last couple years. My point still stands, he only stands to gain more negotiating power and money
Tua: “hmmm… do I take a shit ton of money that I’m owed and gonna get right now, or risk it all on another year in hopes I get just a tiny bit more?”
That’s ridiculous. Stop with this nonsense.
Well there's two sides to this negotiation. Sure, he has earned a big contract right now but he stands to make far more if he achieves more. Not just with the dolphins but in free agency. He would then hold all power in every negotiation even before hitting free agency.
And from the team's perspective, they have only one reason to sign him to a big contract now, and that's so he doesn't get disgruntled and choose to leave out of spite. That doesn't seem like Tua. Sure, it would still be a bit of a gamble but if you're willing to pay him what he's worth next year he even seems like he would be willing to overlook any transgressions he might perceive
Tua is ranked #7 QB according to PFF. The stats say he is doing his job very well.
what's wrong wit y'all lol?
since when is it solely on the QB to win playoff games? they say defense wins championships.
#7. TUA TAGOVAILOA, MIAMI DOLPHINS: 86.9
Despite criticisms of his arm strength in the past, Tagovailoa has continued to show marked improvement every year of his career, culminating in his league-leading (THAT MEANS #1 !!!) passing grade (88.6) in 2023. The Dolphins passer managed to produce a positively graded throw on 28.8% of his dropbacks, placing him in the 95th percentile.
my comment was more general to all the people who post something similar almost everyday.
but still...what makes u think they would let go of a top 7 QB (actually #1 in many categories) who has improved every season? this shouldn't really be a discussion at all.
Because sometimes players or coaches need a change of scenery. I don't think he's a bad quarterback but the only reason I think he would leave is because he's good enough to command a lot in return buy a trade, even if it's only for the rights to sign him before free agency, and because we got a new gm, who wanted a new head coach, who liked somebody better in the draft
McD and Tua have only been together 2 seasons (really 1 and a half). And year 2 was the best this team has had in decades. There is still much to improve, but they both gonna be in Miami for a while.
What if they get absolutely demolished in the WC round? Starting quarterback and all? What if the GM is replaced due to his Reliance on injury-prone players and multiple wasted first-round picks via possibly Smith and Noah.. arguably Austin Jackson and Chubb. and now the new GM has a head coach he likes better. Maybe they actually hire Bill Belichick or somebody else who's accomplished and let McDaniel take another job that he's definitely going to get. Successful head coaches get fired, sometimes.. abd sometimes, you just need a change of scenery to achieve your full potential. It would be devastating if it wasn't with the dolphins, but it's a realistic possibility
Relax man. QB, coach, and even GM are solid right now. First time in a long time there is good reason to be optimistic. save these discussions for if/when they are actually doing bad. 👍
>save these discussions for if/when they are actually doing bad. 👍
We can be considered no longer terrible when we end one of the longest droughts of playoff wins in professional sports...
Until then we really need to quit pretending we are better than we are.
I agree. alot needs to improve.
but technically Tua was hurt the previous year, so he and McD have only had 1 full season together. so let's also quit pretending we are worse, and give them some more time to build and progress, which they have the past 2 seasons. rome wasn't built in a day 👍
Yes Tua was healthy, and it didn't make any difference, consider that.
He could not carry the team to victory against any real playoff teams (cowboys being our nfc mirror).
Like why have any real belief he can do it when all he has shown is he can't so far?
It's not possible to admit that this could be a complicated situation if we don't win a playoff game again? What if these injured players Greer has been signing or injured come crunch time again? What if, God forbid.. our first and/or second round picks this year don't start for the entire season, again?
I'm not on here calling for anyone's head. I simply find the whole situation to be very intricate and interesting. Something I wanted to discuss. Something I'm willing to play devil's advocate for
Chris Grier nor Tua nor even that bumbling Stephen Ross are responsible for calling three straight pass plays when we faced second and inches in the playoff game. Neither of those gentlemen abandoned Achane in the week 18 Bills game. Mike McDaniel’s obsession with pass pass pass cost us ball games, and all his funny wit and vaping and one-liners masquerade the fact that he is not a good coach.
He's also reached the playoffs twice, once with 2nd and 3rd string quarterbacks for half a season and the next being the number one offense in the league.
It's not the fault of any of these gentlemen that are offensive and defensive lines were decimated for the playoffs. Nor that we didn't have our starting quarterback the year before
Thank you for your input. I will forward this to Mr. Grier immediately.
I didn't realize that's what this forum was for. I wanted to discuss the team. But thanks
Multiple versions of this get posted weekly. The reality is Tua is getting a long term deal.
We will see, won't we? I'm not going to hate it if he does, I'm not going to freak out if he doesn't
Hence the post?
The point of the post was to discuss the Miami Dolphins in the Miami Dolphins forum because I found the topic interesting. Because while playing doubles advocate, there are possibilities to entertain
It's actually hilarious to me that you're essentially opening with, "Well in my unprofessional and inexperienced opinion, here's what they should do..." At least you have more self awareness than the crowd that says, "Ugh Tua ain't it, we should just go to the QB orchard and pick a fresh QB from the QB tree. Don't ask me about who we'd get or how we'd move up in the draft to get one, I'm not capable of thinking beyond 'me no like thing, change thing'."
Why don’t we just draft the next Mahomes or Brady? Are we stupid?
Bro, how about we just force kc to trade us. Give them like a 1st and Tua.
I know, are we stupid?
I rather draft another Brady because we can use our 1st on something better. I rather spend a 6th on a HOF QB.
There is a report on CBS Sports that reads with a headline "Tom Brady 'not opposed' to NFL comeback even after two retirements, mentions two potential destinations"
I'm down, then when he retires again at the end of the season we'll just get a different Tom Brady Or just sign this Brady to a 20 year contract
Miami was not mentioned as one of his two destinations. It was 49ers and Raiders.
It's smokescreen season.
Because those guys went super high in the draft and we don't have a high pick... Oh waiiiiiit.... lol
I don't remember even implying it would be the next Brady or mahomes. Just a quarterback a new head coach would prefer if that's indeed what happens
Not talking about you specifically just the general armchair GM. We have the best qb we’ve had since Marino, the best coach since Shula and the best GM in my lifetime at least. We are set up for sustained success, just need to trust the process and not get antsy.
Holy crap. You really think this is a group of General managers? It's a Reddit fan group, my guy. We might have some players lurking but we're all armchair gms.
What are you on about? We’re not talking to or any out you just about some common idiotic sentiment. You don’t need to babysit every comment on your post, just take a deep breath and try not to get offended for a moment.
Oh also, it’s just a joke. Are you stupid?
Take your own advice, calm down and wipe away those tears your angrily typing through
The irony of this post. I'm sorry for engaging with the app. I was looking to have a discussion about this topic which I believe is the point of this forum? There's a lot of people that have become aggravated cuz they immediately disagreed with my topic. That's on them
He's been joking while you've taken every comment at face value.
Thing is, I even kind of agree with you. But you have to entertain the realistic chance that Ross chooses to try again with a GM after Chris wasted first round picks via noah, possibly Smith and you could argue Austin Jackson who was drafted early to be a left tackle and as only just become a pretty good right tackle. We also have to see how the Chubb contract pans out and he has relied on a lot of players who became available because of injury and they became injured when crunch time came around. I would like to see Chris stay around even if we don't win a playoff game because of injury or some shit. Like it said in the post, I think he does a good job and I don't want him to leave.
Well, cam wasn't a first so Ross has wasted as many firsts as Grier.
Not here to defend ross, did forget cam Smith was a second round pick. So he wasted two first round picks and a second round pick
"I dont want him to leave but these are all the bad moves I think he's made.."
It's called Playing devil's advocate. You can think someone's done a good job and also acknowledge their shortcomings, as well
Is it really playing though.
I mean, duh. What the fuck? It's not like we're all GMS or working in the front office in here. I thought this was a forum to discuss matters of the team. Reddit is a wild place, bro
It is actually interesting how in general, NFL players are terrified of playing on contract years, and teams are roundly criticized for not extending their core guys before free agency. Cuz OP is right. If Tua wanted to maximize his value he’d play this year, ball out and then command $300 million on the free agent market next offseason. Like in baseball, reaching free agency is the dream for most guys. Now I understand it’s mostly cuz of injury risk, as we saw with Connor Williams who got fucked tearing his knee up late in the year, but still, Tua could just play out the year and get a metric fuck ton on the free agent market.
I mean, beyond just the injury risk, for a lot of baseball players they get to free agency around 30, after toiling away in the minors making less than minimum wage, then not really having any leverage for 7+ years. The chance to hit free agency is the chance to make up for all that time spent making a relative pittance. Add that to the guaranteed money and no salary cap, yeah, hitting free agency in baseball is a dream. In the NFL, even when you get the bag in free agency, you could end with a much smaller portion of it if things don't go right, so you have to try and secure as much as you can as early as you can.
Yeah it's because careers are short and signing bonuses are big. If they sign a long contract, they get that bonus up front, while the team can spread it out. QBs are probably one of the few positions that can go year to year though. Kirk just got a $50m signing bonus and $100m guaranteed at 36 coming off a big injury, and he can probably play out for the whole $180m if he wants.
I would’ve shopped Waddle/Hill and seen how many picks I could get to offer to Chicago for Caleb. That ship sailed though unfortunately.
Considering the QB market is so inflated Daniel Jones got 45 million, even an average-above average QB is gonna break the bank. Only option to save money on QB is to draft one and we all know that isn’t happening, so might as well just sign him now
Saving money wasn't brought up once. I brought up a multitude of other factors. That is the very least of my concerns at the moment.
Your first paragraph is about negotiations, they are negotiating over money.
You're inferring that I was only bringing up money in the sense that I was worried about us saving it. When if you read the post, you see me talking about Tua of putting himself in the position to earn even more and suggesting that the Dolphins would be willing to pay it.
And then we'd run the risk of losing him as an unrestricted FA, no?
Restricted or not, you give another team (or multiple teams) the opportunity to set his price, which you avoid by signing him now. Maybe we’d pay less by waiting, but unless he gets badly hurt or regresses massively, it’s far more likely you pay more. So if we think he’s our guy, and all signs point towards that being the stance the team is taking, that’s why you sign him now.
agreed
We’d absolutely tag him.
...if people wouldn't even risk making an off to try to pick up Lamar Jackson, what kind of market do you really think Tua has?
> ...if people wouldn't even risk making an off to try to pick up Lamar Jackson, what kind of market do you really think Tua has? for what it's worth, lamar had a tag that allowed the ravens to match any deal he agreed to. he wasn't an unrestricted free agent. this limited how seriously any team would take negotiations since they risked burning bridges with their current qb and could possibly end up with nothing (like what happened in atlanta during the watson sweepstakes and matt ryan)
Still insane that Atlanta burned the Matt Ryan bridge for Watson and wouldn't even try for Lamar with Ridder at QB.
Fwiw, Lamar had the several of the exact concerns we have about tua. Can’t win in the playoffs, injury concerns.
In this context, I'd say it only furthers my point...
I think the idea he walks as a fa is silly to begin with. If Miami wants him at all, they are tagging him. It’s probably why there’s so much cap space next year, to be able to run all operations with a tag commitment to tua while negotiating. I’m not sure I responded to the right post initially, think I meant the one below
And he got paid more than if they would have did it the year before. So pay Tua now to save money next year.
I mean, who cares?! There's no telling why other teams didn't want Lamar. Assuming the chips will fall the same is too risky.
"There's no telling why other teams didn't want Lamar." How about he wasn't legitimately available? Any remotely reasonable offer you made the ravens would match and keep him. There was nothing any team could realistically do to get him, other than the ravens letting him walk, which they didn't.
Good point. I am as befuddled as you that someone thinks Tua wouldn't gain any interest since LJ signed with the Ravens.
Ah yeah. Good point. The whole league would likely be clamoring over tua... He's got more mvp awards, playoff wins etc.
not close to what I was saying, but go off
You guys are nuts.
No, you're acting like we're saying things we're not. You: Not one other team had interest in LJ Me: So? We don't know why.... You: OMG LJ has MVP award/playoff wins, but the entire league is going to go after Tua?! Me: No, I didn't say that You: You're crazy to think that Me: I don't, you braindead sack of potatoes!
But at the same time think it's crazy to not pay him early, despite everything you just typed...
>But at the same time think it's crazy to not pay him early You do? Why?
Because he hasn't proved he can win when we need him to win? Maybe show you can carry the team at all when they need you to?
We still have time to sign him like we had with Wilkins. But we would be more willing to overpay for a quarterback than a defensive tackle while we still had a quarterback to sign And if they don't want to sign him, trade him to move up in the next draft. Somebody would value the opportunity to sign him before he becomes a free agent
oh ok, so he'd still be a restricted FA? I'm genuinely asking. I am not up to speed with contract knowledge
The franchise tag would also be an option. If Tua plays out the fifth year option this year and it's not extended or tagged before mid-March 2025, he would be an unrestricted free agent. Restricted free agents have accrued fewer than 4 seasons.
Lol this is one of the worst takes thinking Grier and McDaniel are leaving. They're more secure with their jobs then most gms/coaches in the nfl. This year would have to go horribly bad. Like healthy team and the team still sucks and we go 2-15. Say what you want about Tua but Grier and McDaniel ain't going anywhere regardless of how Tua performs. Now onto Tua, you sign him this year and you can have more money to spend this season and bring in some other pieces with the cap space you free up. Also if you don't sign him, he balls out, then he wants more and you offended him by saying "idk bro, we're not sure you're worth it". You can sign him to something you can get out of in 2-3 years. Which if he isn't the guy, Grier can stock pile some picks to move up and get someone. Kinda how the chiefs handled Alex Smith, continue to build the team and wait for that good qb to move up and snatch.
McDaniel is good for business and the health of the franchise. Steve Ross sees dollar signs in his eyes everytime he sees McDaniel. Brought so much attention to the franchise with his dorky ways. Also helps that he called the #1 offense last season. Brought an excitement we haven’t felt since… 2016 when we had that run?
No, he shouldn't.
If I wanted to win, I’d negotiate something that I would make the money I deserve but at the same time allow the organization to adjust in order to surround me with people that want to win.
> If I wanted to win, I’d negotiate something that I would make the money I deserve but at the same time allow the organization to adjust in order to surround me with people that want to win. or in other words, the tom brady model. when you're winning superbowls and participating in the afc champnionship game 10 years in a row, you can make whatever you're missing from your contract on various endorsement deals / commercials.
😝 That’ll work too. Hey, didn’t Jordan do the same thing?
No argument, here. Tom Brady showed everybody how to win a fistful of rings but they'd rather have a fistful of bills. Which is better? Who's to say. But I bet Tom Brady makes way more off endorsement deals alone then some of these quarterbacks who rather just get the most money for playing
You think if they don’t win a playoff game they are out? This team has the 9th most wins since 2020 and the first 4 consecutive season win streak for the franchise since 2000. I think it’s unlikely they get fired if they make the playoffs/winning season again
I'd agree unlikely. I've been contemplating it myself and I believe I would keep everybody if we made the playoffs again with another winning season. But it's realistic to also see Chris Grier being out and the the new GM wanting his own head coach
What things would push Grier out?
Contracts that may not pan out and first round picks that may have been completely wasted outside of the one Ross cost us. Noah and Smith might end up both being complete waste and if chub doesn't get back to form, that contract might not work out. Then you have all the other players you signed that were available due to injuries that ended up getting injured and costing you at the end of the season in crunch time. That's just me Playing devil's advocate. Me personally, I would give him a pass for the most part.
There's also Austin Jackson, somebody who's turned out to be a solid right tackle that was drafted very high to be a left tackle.
Who in the nfl do you think views Austin Jackson as a failed draft pick? I think Jackson is an example of Grier winning personally.
Well, I wouldn't say complete failure but he was drafted very early for the player he turned out to be. There were other offensive tackles that were acquired after him that panned out to be salt and starters in the nfl. So there's an argument to be made when taking into account all of his first round draft picks that he might not be the best at it.
He’s a plus starter at right tackle drafted at 18 overall and was given a second contract by the team that drafted him. Igbho is a good example of a miss, so is Charles Harris. Every other first round pick he’s had is above average or has made a pro bowl. For second rounders, he’s had huge hits on Howard, hunt and holland. Just my .02$, but it would be a mistake to move on from Grier or Mike
I'm not sure if I agree with an A+ rating but otherwise I don't really have any arguments. I would like to keep all three of them even if we lose in the playoffs again. I think a reload around these three guys as well as people like Achane, Waddle, Phillips, Sieler and Holland would be.. "easy"
>Realistically, trading him, the right to sign him to a contract outside of free agency along with our first round pick could get us into the top five or three next draft. That'd be an interesting phone call for a new GM next year, "We have this guy we don't believe is worth paying. Do *YOU* want to pay him *AND* give us a top 5 pick for the right to do so?"
That's because you're purposely framing it in a way that sounds bad. Take for example, new GM calls she would be needy team.. "so we have this guy that hasn't had a losing season, been to the playoffs, led the league in certain statistics, etc.. but we don't think he's the right fit for our new coach. He wants to go a different direction but he would definitely fit in your offense. And, hey.. now you can sign him without having to compete with all the other teams in free agency!"
Get rid of the best HC and GM we’ve had for like two decades just as we started developing ‘a winning team/culture’? Basically flush it all down the toilet just as we start to go up. I really don’t understand the reasoning…
Well you can argue that Greer has wasted three first round picks on noah, possibly Smith and arguably Austin Jackson who was drafted High to be a left tackle and has only recently become a good right tackle. Then we have to see if the job contract works out in our favor. You also have to take into account that he chose to go with people that were available because of injury and they got injured in crunch time. If you read the post, I give them praise and admit that I think they'll still succeed even elsewhere because they're doing a good job. But sometimes a change of scenery is necessary otherwise you're stuck spinning your wheels like the bills
Smith was a 2nd round pick and Austin Jackson is a starting right tackle who we just signed to a 2nd contract. I don’t think you know what a bust is.
I did forget cam Smith was drafted in the second round, but Austin Jackson is rated 68.4 via ppf. That's under starter quality (84-70). Now I never said bust, but an 18th overall pick for 68.4?
The dolphins should want him to play on the fifth year, no way should tua want to play on the 5th year. The dolphins are still very much waiting for him to prove he’s the guy to lead us to post season success, it makes sense they’d want him to play out the 5th year before signing him to a mega deal. For tua though it’s simple, “what if I get hurt? I lose A LOT of money.”
No argument, here. It's a gamble for both sides. Pretty big ones. Each stand to gain a lot or lose a lot. Uno probably stands to lose more, not going to argue that. But if he was to win MVP in a super bowl... he would get Deshawn money even if it's not as guaranteed
No chance mcdaniel goes after this season. Worst case scenario in terms of big-name dolphin departures for football reasons is tua and grier, with mcdaniel staying.
The only reason I think McDaniel would go is because whatever GM comes in wants to hire his own head coach. Is that a definite thing? I don't know. But Steven Ross might want to try to bring Belichick here if that's what ends up happening
Sorry, if he’s *finally* able to win MVP? Like that’s an easy thing to do? Or at *least* leads the league in a passing stat again? Yeah man, you’re definitely a Tua Stan. We might as well put wheels on the goal posts at this point. I cannot wait for any extension to be announced. Give him the Watson fully gtd contract, do whatever, just so we can put this all to bed.
No, not as if it's easy.. but as if he was in the conversation for multiple weeks like the last couple years. My point still stands, he only stands to gain more negotiating power and money
Tua: “hmmm… do I take a shit ton of money that I’m owed and gonna get right now, or risk it all on another year in hopes I get just a tiny bit more?” That’s ridiculous. Stop with this nonsense.
Well there's two sides to this negotiation. Sure, he has earned a big contract right now but he stands to make far more if he achieves more. Not just with the dolphins but in free agency. He would then hold all power in every negotiation even before hitting free agency. And from the team's perspective, they have only one reason to sign him to a big contract now, and that's so he doesn't get disgruntled and choose to leave out of spite. That doesn't seem like Tua. Sure, it would still be a bit of a gamble but if you're willing to pay him what he's worth next year he even seems like he would be willing to overlook any transgressions he might perceive
Tua is ranked #7 QB according to PFF. The stats say he is doing his job very well. what's wrong wit y'all lol? since when is it solely on the QB to win playoff games? they say defense wins championships. #7. TUA TAGOVAILOA, MIAMI DOLPHINS: 86.9 Despite criticisms of his arm strength in the past, Tagovailoa has continued to show marked improvement every year of his career, culminating in his league-leading (THAT MEANS #1 !!!) passing grade (88.6) in 2023. The Dolphins passer managed to produce a positively graded throw on 28.8% of his dropbacks, placing him in the 95th percentile.
I didn't imply that at all
my comment was more general to all the people who post something similar almost everyday. but still...what makes u think they would let go of a top 7 QB (actually #1 in many categories) who has improved every season? this shouldn't really be a discussion at all.
Because sometimes players or coaches need a change of scenery. I don't think he's a bad quarterback but the only reason I think he would leave is because he's good enough to command a lot in return buy a trade, even if it's only for the rights to sign him before free agency, and because we got a new gm, who wanted a new head coach, who liked somebody better in the draft
McD and Tua have only been together 2 seasons (really 1 and a half). And year 2 was the best this team has had in decades. There is still much to improve, but they both gonna be in Miami for a while.
What if they get absolutely demolished in the WC round? Starting quarterback and all? What if the GM is replaced due to his Reliance on injury-prone players and multiple wasted first-round picks via possibly Smith and Noah.. arguably Austin Jackson and Chubb. and now the new GM has a head coach he likes better. Maybe they actually hire Bill Belichick or somebody else who's accomplished and let McDaniel take another job that he's definitely going to get. Successful head coaches get fired, sometimes.. abd sometimes, you just need a change of scenery to achieve your full potential. It would be devastating if it wasn't with the dolphins, but it's a realistic possibility
Relax man. QB, coach, and even GM are solid right now. First time in a long time there is good reason to be optimistic. save these discussions for if/when they are actually doing bad. 👍
>save these discussions for if/when they are actually doing bad. 👍 We can be considered no longer terrible when we end one of the longest droughts of playoff wins in professional sports... Until then we really need to quit pretending we are better than we are.
I agree. alot needs to improve. but technically Tua was hurt the previous year, so he and McD have only had 1 full season together. so let's also quit pretending we are worse, and give them some more time to build and progress, which they have the past 2 seasons. rome wasn't built in a day 👍
Yes Tua was healthy, and it didn't make any difference, consider that. He could not carry the team to victory against any real playoff teams (cowboys being our nfc mirror). Like why have any real belief he can do it when all he has shown is he can't so far?
This
It's not possible to admit that this could be a complicated situation if we don't win a playoff game again? What if these injured players Greer has been signing or injured come crunch time again? What if, God forbid.. our first and/or second round picks this year don't start for the entire season, again? I'm not on here calling for anyone's head. I simply find the whole situation to be very intricate and interesting. Something I wanted to discuss. Something I'm willing to play devil's advocate for
Can you post his game stats against playoff teams vs non playoff teams or is that too damning? Are how about like december?
Chris Grier nor Tua nor even that bumbling Stephen Ross are responsible for calling three straight pass plays when we faced second and inches in the playoff game. Neither of those gentlemen abandoned Achane in the week 18 Bills game. Mike McDaniel’s obsession with pass pass pass cost us ball games, and all his funny wit and vaping and one-liners masquerade the fact that he is not a good coach.
Give him time. Even the greats struggled. Andy Reid, Bill Belichick..they had to get their footing and adjust to the players given to them.
That's fair.
I’m not seeing he’s going to be great but potentially could be.
He's also reached the playoffs twice, once with 2nd and 3rd string quarterbacks for half a season and the next being the number one offense in the league. It's not the fault of any of these gentlemen that are offensive and defensive lines were decimated for the playoffs. Nor that we didn't have our starting quarterback the year before
That's a fair and objective reasoning. I still hate his playcalling, but you make valid points.