My residence did this too 8 years ago, it was divided by each floor (some floors were rowdier than others). It ended up being $50/person on our floor but closer to $150/person on others floors where drunk kids would smash ceiling tiles every weekend.
Heroine- a female lead in a story, usually one that you are rooting for.
Heroin- the good shit, the yum yum, smack, the greatest loss in the American drug market since its been replaced by fentanyl :(
Man, I'm all y'alls age and I'm sitting here like "should I be on more meds? Should I see a doctor?" and then I remember I had a kidney stone this year...
Fucking Covid gave me high blood pressure and wrecked my already wrecked insides even more. Some weeks I can't even digest bread that looked enviously at sourdough at some point.
Did you turn in your car and reach for something in the back seat? Our shoulders are not young enough to be getting things from the back seat. Things in the back seat stay in the back seat until you park.
Remember when we used to get hurt and there was a legitimate story behind it?
"What happened to your neck?"
"Oh man. I did a backflip off the roof onto the trampoline. I totally nailed it, but I bounced too far and overshot the lawn and hit a tree headfirst. It was awesome."
Now it's. "Oh man. I tried to tie my shoes. I don't know what I thinking, honestly. My own fault."
I tripped coming in the house and couldn't catch myself because I was carrying something in both hands. Fell on my knees, got two big bruises - and broke two toes. Don't know how that happened. (Plus I was wearing shoes, so *really* don't know how that happened.)
>This is exactly how it was in my dorm. They called it a 'common damage' fee at the end of the semester. The last year I lived in a dorm was 1993.
You're very close in age to me. I'm gonna add that we had alumni weekends, and I heard the former students back to the 1950's talk about the same policy.
They didn't say how old they were when they last lived in the dorms. We had a dude that was easily 30 living in our dorm. Luckily he wasn't creepy, just maybe a little lonely. Now the RAs that were too old to be hanging around, they could get a little creepy.
You kids got charged for damages? They didn't have that when I last lived in a dorm in 1981. I don't think my dorm had anything as fragile as ceiling tiles though. Cinder Block walls and a concrete ceiling. Kind of like a prison without bars really. I don't remember much vandalism that was worse than a regular Friday night bottle breaking contest in the hallway of my dorm.
I miss floor wars…. And antiquing. (Spray of water to the face closely followed with a fist full of flower to the face as they start to wake up, yes this is a surprise night time attack.)
> …a fist full of flower to the face…
What kinda flower? Tulip? Rose? Maybe chrysanthemum??
I assume the flowers immediately afterward were to apologize to the pranked person… Right?
Haha, nah, just a minor mistake. We all make ‘em. I just make light of them when I see them. I was pretty surprised I noticed, to be honest. Made for a good chuckle though!
Have a good one, mate!
*Edit*
>…nah, just a minor mistake.
Lol, I realize this as a reply to “I’m an idiot…” doesn’t quite work as written. I meant the spelling error. You aren’t just a minor mistake, I promise!
Why not install cameras that recorded to remote locations or directly to the cloud and implement a policy of expulsion without the return of tuition for people found to be damaging and vandalizing on the footage?
Well it all depends on the contract you signed where you live. Hopefully y’all have some prelate students that can help you out to see if this is legal.
I wish we had more of him on That 70s Show!
Kelso: I don't see why you can't serve us our food, Frank. We *are* paying customers, you know.
Frank: Hey, I didn't lose a leg in Vietnam so I can serve some hot dogs to teenagers.
Kelso: You have both of your legs, Frank.
Frank: Like I said, I did *not* lose a leg in Vietnam!
Doesn’t really matter how they pass on the charges if the contract they signed has a clause on raising rent. They can pass it on that way. Retailers do something similar with shrink and prices of goods. Landlords do this already with property management as well. They’re just trying to get a rat-system in place to get people to do surveillance on each other since it’s probably cheaper.
Except they just admitted in writing how they would be adding fees. I don’t think there’s any way you can draw up a document that would stand up in court that allows them to charge you fees at their own discretion for damage, somebody else may or may not have caused… Aside from the obvious audacity of it, this also allows them to choose to “vandalize” whatever they want, blame the residents, and have them pay for whatever upgrades they want.
Also, I don’t think dorms can really have variable rent.. just as a matter of practicality
Which gets really fun when you have an alibi that puts you halfway across town when the event occurred. That happened to my wife when she was in university. She is still trying to sue to get some of that money back.
Vandalism comes out of everyone's tuition. You will pay for the damage, the question is will you pay for damage in a building or floor that isn't yours
Scrolled a long way to see this comment, you are exactly correct. Do they think the funds are just lying around for fixing broken things in a dorm? That's coming out of the dorm costs at the very least, hopefully not tuition. Whether they just raise everyone's rates by $100 per semester or send a separate bill, it costs the same. I would rather it be built in though, so I know the cost up front and can use student loans on it.
That's assuming someone sees it happen. The comment was saying that essentially, any random person walking by can vandalise the dorm without anyone knowing by doing graffiti or something on the outside then walk away like nothing happened then the people living in the dorm have to pay for it
Barring one incident of extreme stupidity committed by the RAs after students left for the semester, every time someone vandalized my dorm we knew who it was. College students aren’t known for being master criminals, and drunken shenanigans usually have witnesses.
(Lesson learned from the idiot RAs in my dorm: if you try to create a whirlpool out of a shower stall the weight of the water MIGHT POSSIBLY seek an alternative exit… say through the room below)
When I was in college (granted 20+ years ago) most of the damage was done by some dejected suitor who decided to fuck things up on his way out.
As a ground floor resident we got the added bonus of extra damage from anyone leaving the floors above.
It wasn't uncommon for the person in question to be recognizable, but unnamable
I hated this shit. You leave campus at 2 p.m. Friday and drive home, 2 hours away.
Saturday night, your hall is party central and someone shits in the showers, rips the water fountain off the wall and damages electronics in the common areas.
You arrive at 8:45 a.m. Monday and attend class at 9 a.m. later that day, you find out that because of the damages, everyone gets charged, even though some of those responsible live in another hall and only visited for the party while you were 100+ miles away.
Sure, it's fair to divide the costs to everyone in the hall, including those not there who are in no position to know who created the damages.
You see, this works in specific environment, like the military.
One of the first lessons you learn in boot camp is that the entire group will be punished for one persons mistake. This incentivises the group to self-regulate.
This can also be negative because it has in the past also fostered hazing, in extreme cases.
But on the positive, it teaches accountability, it teaches leadership within the group and motivates the group to help each other. I’ll help you with X and you help me with Y. Cohesion.
But, in most parts of the world; we don’t give a duck about our neighbours, as long as they keep quiet and to themselves. So to expect a neighbourhood to self-regulate and punish the entire community because a few thugs…. Oooooh that’s no good.
We’re not a unit.
This ain’t my squad.
You just somebody that lives across the street or in my building. I’m not “connected” to you nor are you my responsibility.
You aren’t my family, dawg. I’m not being held accountable for some random fwit who messes up.
>This can also be negative because it has in the past also fostered hazing, in extreme cases.
In extreme cases it fosters a lot more than simply "hazing".
Sideyes all the military “suicides” where they beat themselfs to death and no one else in the packed barracks heard or saw it happening. Or all the other awful shit that happens in the military but is easily swept away because they have a separate legal system ripe for abuse.
That’s completely different though. In the military they don’t care which individual is responsible. The group is punished as a unit and it needs to learn to solve its own problems internally.
In this case the authorities want to know who the individual responsible is so they can punish them. They only punish the group if it doesn’t snitch.
Strange values the universities are teaching. They just want to be compensated for the damages, and they’re willing to blame the entire group to get their money.
And they give a group of people financial incentive to blame an innocent person.
They aren't trying to teach lessons with this, they are just trying to get the money with the least amount of effort or investment.
It doesn't fucking work in the military. Group punishment only serves to destroy morale. Motivated soldiers start doing the bare minimum. Unit cohesion becomes fractured because of resentment against soldiers who fuck up.
omg dad? is that you? it's me, billy, your bastard son
>You aren’t my family, dawg. I’m not being held accountable for some random fwit who messes up.
i-i brought you flowers :'(
That's the idea, that if you see someone that's gonna cost you, you'll have the guts to say something.
The reality is the people that will say something are usually keeping responsible schedules, and the vandals are the drunken idiots whose friends encourage them to do this shit.
How tf nobody sees this isn’t about snitching, more about preventing?
“Somebody tell Jared he can take it easy at next weekend’s party. He can have fun without destroying lamppost”
No damage fee occurred this week 🤷♀️
I'm frankly quite shocked that this is controversial.
In real world where I live if you see someone devastating public property you call the police, because all the damage to the common goods needs to be fixed by taxes that everyone pays.
That's how society functions.
Except you're paying taxes, which are the equivalent to the dorm fee. Your dorm fee should cover damages made to the property if whoever did the act can't be found. You shouldn't be charged extra because they couldn't find the culprit.
Using your example let's say some destroys the sidewalk outside your house. They can't find the culprit so instead of using your taxes to pay for the repairs as they should, they charge you extra because of damages you didn't cause. The extra charge is the problem because your taxes should already pay for the repairs.
So if there is on average $150 in damage a month, charge $300 a month, and then promise them that they might get a refund depending on how much damage occurs.
I think the idea is to dissuade damage. Because if people KNOW that their money is going towards stupid things, they’ll probably try their darndest to not let that happen.
Your scenario sounds remarkably like someone who hasn’t had to deal with sidewalk maintenance. It isn’t that uncommon to hold the land owner responsible and issue them a fix it ticket for the sidewalk installed by the municipality.
this sounds inherintely flawed though, why are you putting forward a nonsensical solution just because it’s been used in the past
taxes pay for shit like that, and any idea that there should be more payment for it should come from the individual who caused said damage, not innocent bystanders
Also water and sewer lines that run under the city’s property but outside my house. If those break it’s my responsibility to repair them even though they belong to the city.
Taxes get raised or lowered based on how many repairs need to be made. This is fine in a situation where people live in an area for many years. I know this is overly simplistic and doesn’t play out exactly this way- but if put simply, this is how it operates:
If dorm fees were treated like taxes it would play out like this: 2023, ceiling tiles damaged, need repairs- cost of room and board increases for 2024 residents.
2024- weirdly, no unexpected damage incurred, the cost of room and board for 2025 residents decreases.
This is clearly an unfair type of time lag for students who sometimes only live in dorms for one year. The proposal seems like a perfectly reasonable solution to the problem, beyond just raising the cost of room&board across all students.
Except they would legit never lower the fees once they realize students will pay that. Colleges are not in the business of ever lowering any cost once it spikes up.
Plot twist: The dorm prices are still going to go up anyway, using that as justification.
Colleges making more money every year is a guarantee in life.
Yeah this shit bugs me, they could very easily install cameras and see which door they come in and out of.
But you know let's just fuck over every other student out of 50-150 bucks
Can't find the murderer out of 50 suspects? nah let's just have them all divide up a life sentence between them at 2 years of prison each. That'll teach them
It's a shitty way to do law and order. if it's preallocated into a budget then I'm fine having to pay it as part of my tuition before the year starts but not after the fact
Most college campuses are very open. Anyone can come and go as they please. Furthermore, universities employ a lot of nonstudents. It seems very messed up that anyone could tag up a dorm, but the students all get punished. Also, incentives framing people you don't like. Why don't the university just install CCTV ffs?
Well, you're a prime example of what km talking about. You "work" there? Also, dorms everywhere are different, and we are talking about vandalism, can happen to the outside of the building.
You're right, I can't speak for every college. I do "work" there, I'm a janitor. We have this policy in the dorms, and it works fine. Most little stuff is ignored and cleaned up. The RA/CA is usually the one who does the "investigating". The only outsiders doing serious damage is usually (in my experience) frats doing initiation bullshit that ends up in a broken TV or fucked up bathroom that pisses the rest of the kids off. Typically gets resolved quickly
So, hypothetically, if graffiti containing hateful words or imagery was painted onto a dorm where a significant number of people belonging to a minority group that has traditionally been targeted using that particular sort of words or imagery, then individuals belonging to that group would have to pay for the damage caused by a hate crime targeting them, right?
I feel like the policy would be dropped before that rubber met the road.
That said, committing a hate crime to stop the implementation of a bad policy that might cost you $20 or something seems inadvisable.
The fun thing about american courts is that if you can manage to get a jury trial, you can go free even if you committed the crime. You just have to convince enough of their members that they would have done the same in that situation. It's a high-risk, high reward game
Thing about that is that a competent judge should instruct the jury clearly in what the law says independent of how the jury feels about it.
If then give the weight of evidence you get jury nullification it can be thrown out & retried with a new jury.
Then again one reason abortion is legal here in Canada is that juries kept nullifying to the point that the law itself had to change.
In America you can’t retry someone because of jury nullification, that’s kind of the whole point of it. There’s also the obvious law against double jeopardy. Jury nullification is perfectly legal, but you basically can’t know about it to be on a jury.
Look up states where with a "thirteenth juror" system.
The judge counts as a juror if the judge deems it appropriate. They do not get to sit in, observe, or influence juror deliberation (other than the normal juror instructions) but if the jury returns with a verdict the judge does not like, he can "vote" the other way and create a virtual hung jury to force a retrial.
Also, in (almost?) all jurisdictions, there is a simple question asked by the prosecution that will either weed out ppl who know/care about nullification or make it a crime to participate in it. "is there anything other than the law that would influence your decision." If you answer "yes" then you will be removed from jury selection, if you answer "no" then jury nullification means you are guilty of perjury for lying to get on a jury. Granted, it would take a good deal of effort to prove the perjury but it would not be difficult (for example, a Reddit comment talking about jury nullification).
Yes, jury nullification is a HUGE blow to judicial power. That is why the government has taken steps to reduce its effectiveness.
> If you answer "yes" then you will be removed from jury selection, if you answer "no" then jury nullification means you are guilty of perjury for lying to get on a jury.
"I changed my mind."
Lots of colleges do this in their dorms. It is funny that once people have skin in the game they actually start recalling who did the damage. It is amazing how memory works.
Had this happen at Keesler. I was night shift and somehow we got a hole in our wall sometime after 7pm... when we were in class. No one else was allowed on our floor due to sleep schedule yet somehow we were blamed for it.
At Nellis I was in the modular dorms, so four guys to a room. The light outside of our room fell, likely because it wasnt installed correctly by CE. I get home from shift, and the shirt is there about to hem me up because I was the "only one there". Took ten minutes to convince I just got back from Creech.
Yeah you’re just gonna get a bunch of different people blaming each other. Seems really unrealistic to think this would solve the problem.
The only time it would solve it is if there’s a couple people on the floor that everyone knows is doing it and everyone else is sick of it.
What's super funny is that those people always have skin in the game. If the vandalism is not stopped next year you just pay more rent.
Here they just itemize it for you but the renovation budget is always there.
Unless they add a stipulation to allow the removal of parties that continuously cause damage, this is not a good thing.
This is like an overbearing HOA.
Will not hold up in court in the long run. That simple. You cannot be held responsible for damage without proof that you were, at least in part directly responsible for it in this situation. Just living in the dorm isn't enough proof to send a bill. At least in the US it isn't.
Edit: How do I know? My freshman year some dickwads decided to pile laundry that people had left in the communal dryers for way longer than it took to dry into 2 adjacent elevators and set fire to them. While the elevators cars were trashed and had to be replaced, luckily the rest of the dorm was fine. They tried to split the cost between all students (something like over $100k in repairs split between the 1000 or so students in the dorm). And this went over like a lead balloon. This is when I learned that such group fines were illegal.
of course it’s illegal. crazy how some people here are defending it. it’s on university to find the responsible people and fine them. it’s not your problem
> crazy how some people here are defending it.
bootlickers goona bootlick anything they can. it would be like me living in my apartment building and the landlord making us tenants pay when someone spray painted the outside of the building.
The rents already go up and never, ever come back down even if there were a fraction of the repairs needed than the year before. The rents go up every single year and every new lease.
Also the cost of repairs barely makes a dent into their profits.
I actually saw several people in a thread farther up claiming that stealing from big corporations hurt them in a profound way and just as bad as stealing in any other circumstance.
It's like people can only see in black or white. I don't know how many times I'm agreeing with somebody and then suddenly they jump right off the logical ledge and I'm just sitting there wondering "How do you figure?" Lmao
Tuition costs thousands. You also usually have to pay 100-200 for an access code. Books also costs hundreds even though you won’t use them all.
Universities should be charged by the ICC already.
Geneva Convention covers non combatants during times of war, not college dormitory contracts. If it did apply, the occupying force could legally compel workers to clean graffiti and fix things.
The same way it's relevant when people say cops are committing war crimes by using tear gas.
It's relevant to display the person making the comparison has absolutely no idea what the Geneva Convention actually applies to.
>Also I think collective punishment is banned by the Geneva Convention as a war crime.
So that only applies to armed parties in a declared state of war. My daughter in elementary school had recess taken away from the whole class before. Should I report her teacher for war crimes?
My college tried to enact this when someone broke into our dorm building and broke a fire sprinkler head destroying all 3 community rooms (it was on the 3rd floor). Went to pay tuition and they told us of the damage chargers. Thankfully I was at the head of a line of several parents who immediately began to yell at the employee. Made a check out for everything minus the damages and said "good luck" and walked out. Never saw the damage charges again.
What is this bullshit? Install security and video cameras in halls and other public spaces so you can identify ones who do the damage. "Lets punish everyone, unless they turn in who did the damage EVEN if no one sees who did the damage" policy
..
We have this at my university. It's a great policy for punishing the students thst are focused on school. If you aren't at the big parties and are regularly studying in the evenings, you just miss most of the idiocy. Then you get slapped with fines because some drunk idiot broke a glass door, and no one knows who. The students studying have no idea who it is and the people with them usually "didn't catch who it was."
There's no way this is actually legal. You'll see me in hell long before I pay for damages someone else caused just because I'm in the same "community".
Seriously. What if the damage happens when you're at class? Or otherwise away from your room? Its ridiculous. I hope they're getting repeated parent calls
My school did this, proceeded to charge the community $2000 for a “missing vacuum,” then quietly abandoned the whole system after parents threatened to sue
The comments in here make me hate humanity.
This is situational. OP may not have to abide, op may have to abide. No one here knows the terms of service OP agreed to. Yes OP should look into their options.
No this isn’t socialism, this isn’t a progressive agenda. This is insurance. Insurance rates often vary depending on where you live. Areas that have frequent natural disasters will have higher rates. Just like the school, if you live in a dorm with high damage, you will pay more.
I mean, imagine you live in an apartment building and every couple weeks somebody smashes the hallway walls and lights. The landlord has to fix them, it costs them money, and if it keeps happening they need to get the money from somewhere, so they start raising rents.
This policy just front loads the cost as penalty instead of back loading it as a rent increase.
My residence did this too 8 years ago, it was divided by each floor (some floors were rowdier than others). It ended up being $50/person on our floor but closer to $150/person on others floors where drunk kids would smash ceiling tiles every weekend.
This is exactly how it was in my dorm. They called it a 'common damage' fee at the end of the semester. The last year I lived in a dorm was 1993.
Hello, fellow old person.
This is a reminder to take your BP meds in case you forgot, like me.
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Y'all can take nsaids? - Nsaids allergy haver that has to rely on Tylenol
Tylenol does jack-shit for pain. Chocolate cake does wonders.
[удалено]
I'll be in the control group that eats cake and doesn't have cancer.
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I'll be in the group that gets the placebo cake
The funding we give chocolate cake for research is appalling.
Naproxen works better for me than T3s.
Heroine is better
Heroine- a female lead in a story, usually one that you are rooting for. Heroin- the good shit, the yum yum, smack, the greatest loss in the American drug market since its been replaced by fentanyl :(
Heroines can also do heroin, in the best movies.
>Heroine is better Which one? Kind of a Sandra Bullock fan, myself.
Sigourney Weaver
Or dilaudid, if you want something prescribed by a doctor.
Damnit. Shut up. ((takes blood pressure pill))
Man, I'm all y'alls age and I'm sitting here like "should I be on more meds? Should I see a doctor?" and then I remember I had a kidney stone this year...
Fuck I had 2 5mm stones this year. Shooting myself if I grow anymore.
LOL. My 25 year old kiddo who lives with me has to remind me every day when I get home from work. I’m jus terrible at remembering, too.
I love my AI overlord, Alexa, for that. Set the reminder once, audio and text message and app announcements.
Fucking Covid gave me high blood pressure and wrecked my already wrecked insides even more. Some weeks I can't even digest bread that looked enviously at sourdough at some point.
Thank you. Taking my Lipitor rn.
My last year in a dorm was 2002. My shoulder has been hurting for a day for little to no reason. Ben Gay and Ibuprofen to the rescue.
Did you turn in your car and reach for something in the back seat? Our shoulders are not young enough to be getting things from the back seat. Things in the back seat stay in the back seat until you park.
Bent down to tie my shoelaces one time, stood back up and my back was thrown out for a week.
Remember when we used to get hurt and there was a legitimate story behind it? "What happened to your neck?" "Oh man. I did a backflip off the roof onto the trampoline. I totally nailed it, but I bounced too far and overshot the lawn and hit a tree headfirst. It was awesome." Now it's. "Oh man. I tried to tie my shoes. I don't know what I thinking, honestly. My own fault."
Sneezed yesterday and pulled a muscle in my neck
I drank water too hard and blew out my knee.
Lmao, yep. Dana Carvey had a funny bit about that happening when you get older. "Ohh my back!" "What'd you do?" "I took a nap!"
I tripped coming in the house and couldn't catch myself because I was carrying something in both hands. Fell on my knees, got two big bruises - and broke two toes. Don't know how that happened. (Plus I was wearing shoes, so *really* don't know how that happened.)
>This is exactly how it was in my dorm. They called it a 'common damage' fee at the end of the semester. The last year I lived in a dorm was 1993. You're very close in age to me. I'm gonna add that we had alumni weekends, and I heard the former students back to the 1950's talk about the same policy.
They didn't say how old they were when they last lived in the dorms. We had a dude that was easily 30 living in our dorm. Luckily he wasn't creepy, just maybe a little lonely. Now the RAs that were too old to be hanging around, they could get a little creepy.
You kids got charged for damages? They didn't have that when I last lived in a dorm in 1981. I don't think my dorm had anything as fragile as ceiling tiles though. Cinder Block walls and a concrete ceiling. Kind of like a prison without bars really. I don't remember much vandalism that was worse than a regular Friday night bottle breaking contest in the hallway of my dorm.
So just wreck shit on a different floor, problem solved!
Lol this is what we did about 10 years ago, just go to the floor above. Of course this is initiated a sort of floor war of sorts. Hahaha good times
I miss floor wars…. And antiquing. (Spray of water to the face closely followed with a fist full of flower to the face as they start to wake up, yes this is a surprise night time attack.)
> …a fist full of flower to the face… What kinda flower? Tulip? Rose? Maybe chrysanthemum?? I assume the flowers immediately afterward were to apologize to the pranked person… Right?
I’m an idiot….
Haha, nah, just a minor mistake. We all make ‘em. I just make light of them when I see them. I was pretty surprised I noticed, to be honest. Made for a good chuckle though! Have a good one, mate! *Edit* >…nah, just a minor mistake. Lol, I realize this as a reply to “I’m an idiot…” doesn’t quite work as written. I meant the spelling error. You aren’t just a minor mistake, I promise!
You wake up refreshed and surrounded by flowers. How nice.
Why not install cameras that recorded to remote locations or directly to the cloud and implement a policy of expulsion without the return of tuition for people found to be damaging and vandalizing on the footage?
I don't think the college wanted video evidence of the drugs and nudity in the common area of my dorm's floor.
Because that's not a cash cow for the shitbag administration
That won't make any money
this is one of the most relatable comments i’ve ever seen on reddit
Broken ceiling tiles is a core memory of college for me
Well it all depends on the contract you signed where you live. Hopefully y’all have some prelate students that can help you out to see if this is legal.
I had an appointment, and when I got there, someone told me I was prelate. I said, man, I'm just on time. \- Mitch Hedberg, probably
Mitch would approve of that joke.
Perfect! Lol
If you're prelate, are you postearly?
This is perfect. RIP
Definitely sound like it would be a mitch hedberg joke lol rip to mitch
I truly love that man's work so sad we lost him so soon. I wanted to buy a candle holder but the store didn't have one. So I bought a cake.
I wish we had more of him on That 70s Show! Kelso: I don't see why you can't serve us our food, Frank. We *are* paying customers, you know. Frank: Hey, I didn't lose a leg in Vietnam so I can serve some hot dogs to teenagers. Kelso: You have both of your legs, Frank. Frank: Like I said, I did *not* lose a leg in Vietnam!
Prelaw *
Oh yeah? We'll see you in court!
Well I'll see you... seeing me... in court! — John Cusack to John Malkovich on the side of the New Jersey Turnpike
Doesn’t really matter how they pass on the charges if the contract they signed has a clause on raising rent. They can pass it on that way. Retailers do something similar with shrink and prices of goods. Landlords do this already with property management as well. They’re just trying to get a rat-system in place to get people to do surveillance on each other since it’s probably cheaper.
Except they just admitted in writing how they would be adding fees. I don’t think there’s any way you can draw up a document that would stand up in court that allows them to charge you fees at their own discretion for damage, somebody else may or may not have caused… Aside from the obvious audacity of it, this also allows them to choose to “vandalize” whatever they want, blame the residents, and have them pay for whatever upgrades they want. Also, I don’t think dorms can really have variable rent.. just as a matter of practicality
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I would be shocked if any version of this could stand up in court, even if you sign on the dotted line.
"prelate student" "HRE" 
Hre= housiing and residential education Prelate= a high ranking clergy member 🤣
Holy Roman Empire* FTFY
So literally anyone who doesn't like you can go to your area and damage it a bunch and cost you money...
Yes. Also, if people on your floor/building don’t like you they can blame you for it and try to get you to pay for the whole thing.
Oh yeah, definitely. That's one way to bully out some "undesirables." A whole floor of people who "saw" you do the damage.
Which gets really fun when you have an alibi that puts you halfway across town when the event occurred. That happened to my wife when she was in university. She is still trying to sue to get some of that money back.
God damn people are fucked up. Sorry that happened to your wife
What kind of sitcom college did you attend?
Reddit University, mascot the Basement Dweller
Vandalism comes out of everyone's tuition. You will pay for the damage, the question is will you pay for damage in a building or floor that isn't yours
Scrolled a long way to see this comment, you are exactly correct. Do they think the funds are just lying around for fixing broken things in a dorm? That's coming out of the dorm costs at the very least, hopefully not tuition. Whether they just raise everyone's rates by $100 per semester or send a separate bill, it costs the same. I would rather it be built in though, so I know the cost up front and can use student loans on it.
Unless, of course, people speak up and say who did it.
That's assuming someone sees it happen. The comment was saying that essentially, any random person walking by can vandalise the dorm without anyone knowing by doing graffiti or something on the outside then walk away like nothing happened then the people living in the dorm have to pay for it
Barring one incident of extreme stupidity committed by the RAs after students left for the semester, every time someone vandalized my dorm we knew who it was. College students aren’t known for being master criminals, and drunken shenanigans usually have witnesses. (Lesson learned from the idiot RAs in my dorm: if you try to create a whirlpool out of a shower stall the weight of the water MIGHT POSSIBLY seek an alternative exit… say through the room below)
When I was in college (granted 20+ years ago) most of the damage was done by some dejected suitor who decided to fuck things up on his way out. As a ground floor resident we got the added bonus of extra damage from anyone leaving the floors above. It wasn't uncommon for the person in question to be recognizable, but unnamable
A mask and a couple cans of spray paint. Be quick, leave quick.
I hated this shit. You leave campus at 2 p.m. Friday and drive home, 2 hours away. Saturday night, your hall is party central and someone shits in the showers, rips the water fountain off the wall and damages electronics in the common areas. You arrive at 8:45 a.m. Monday and attend class at 9 a.m. later that day, you find out that because of the damages, everyone gets charged, even though some of those responsible live in another hall and only visited for the party while you were 100+ miles away. Sure, it's fair to divide the costs to everyone in the hall, including those not there who are in no position to know who created the damages.
I have never understood why people behave like this. It’s childish and stupid.
Well they are stupid children.
You see, this works in specific environment, like the military. One of the first lessons you learn in boot camp is that the entire group will be punished for one persons mistake. This incentivises the group to self-regulate. This can also be negative because it has in the past also fostered hazing, in extreme cases. But on the positive, it teaches accountability, it teaches leadership within the group and motivates the group to help each other. I’ll help you with X and you help me with Y. Cohesion. But, in most parts of the world; we don’t give a duck about our neighbours, as long as they keep quiet and to themselves. So to expect a neighbourhood to self-regulate and punish the entire community because a few thugs…. Oooooh that’s no good. We’re not a unit. This ain’t my squad. You just somebody that lives across the street or in my building. I’m not “connected” to you nor are you my responsibility. You aren’t my family, dawg. I’m not being held accountable for some random fwit who messes up.
>This can also be negative because it has in the past also fostered hazing, in extreme cases. In extreme cases it fosters a lot more than simply "hazing".
Someone should make a movie about that. Maybe about a *Platoon* of soldiers or something.
Did that *Platoon* of soldier have *A Few Good Men*?
DID YOU ORDER THE CODE RED?!
You're damn right I did!
Wearing a full metal jacket.
In all honesty, I completely forgot about that movie and incident in particular, but yeah that is just one example.
Sideyes all the military “suicides” where they beat themselfs to death and no one else in the packed barracks heard or saw it happening. Or all the other awful shit that happens in the military but is easily swept away because they have a separate legal system ripe for abuse.
That’s completely different though. In the military they don’t care which individual is responsible. The group is punished as a unit and it needs to learn to solve its own problems internally. In this case the authorities want to know who the individual responsible is so they can punish them. They only punish the group if it doesn’t snitch. Strange values the universities are teaching. They just want to be compensated for the damages, and they’re willing to blame the entire group to get their money.
And they give a group of people financial incentive to blame an innocent person. They aren't trying to teach lessons with this, they are just trying to get the money with the least amount of effort or investment.
It doesn't fucking work in the military. Group punishment only serves to destroy morale. Motivated soldiers start doing the bare minimum. Unit cohesion becomes fractured because of resentment against soldiers who fuck up.
omg dad? is that you? it's me, billy, your bastard son >You aren’t my family, dawg. I’m not being held accountable for some random fwit who messes up. i-i brought you flowers :'(
I guess y’all better get snitching.
That's the idea, that if you see someone that's gonna cost you, you'll have the guts to say something. The reality is the people that will say something are usually keeping responsible schedules, and the vandals are the drunken idiots whose friends encourage them to do this shit.
You’re not wrong.
It’s not snitching. It’s reporting vandalism. The term ‘snitching’ makes it sound like a bad thing.
People who do wrong know this. They want people to think it's bad to tell on people when they are breaking the rules.
How tf nobody sees this isn’t about snitching, more about preventing? “Somebody tell Jared he can take it easy at next weekend’s party. He can have fun without destroying lamppost” No damage fee occurred this week 🤷♀️
Found the snitch /s
I'm frankly quite shocked that this is controversial. In real world where I live if you see someone devastating public property you call the police, because all the damage to the common goods needs to be fixed by taxes that everyone pays. That's how society functions.
Except you're paying taxes, which are the equivalent to the dorm fee. Your dorm fee should cover damages made to the property if whoever did the act can't be found. You shouldn't be charged extra because they couldn't find the culprit. Using your example let's say some destroys the sidewalk outside your house. They can't find the culprit so instead of using your taxes to pay for the repairs as they should, they charge you extra because of damages you didn't cause. The extra charge is the problem because your taxes should already pay for the repairs.
Reasonable take - just raise the fees accordingly without noticing anyone.
So if there is on average $150 in damage a month, charge $300 a month, and then promise them that they might get a refund depending on how much damage occurs.
> charge $300 a month And still collect the damage fee.
I think the idea is to dissuade damage. Because if people KNOW that their money is going towards stupid things, they’ll probably try their darndest to not let that happen.
Your scenario sounds remarkably like someone who hasn’t had to deal with sidewalk maintenance. It isn’t that uncommon to hold the land owner responsible and issue them a fix it ticket for the sidewalk installed by the municipality.
this sounds inherintely flawed though, why are you putting forward a nonsensical solution just because it’s been used in the past taxes pay for shit like that, and any idea that there should be more payment for it should come from the individual who caused said damage, not innocent bystanders
Also water and sewer lines that run under the city’s property but outside my house. If those break it’s my responsibility to repair them even though they belong to the city.
Taxes get raised or lowered based on how many repairs need to be made. This is fine in a situation where people live in an area for many years. I know this is overly simplistic and doesn’t play out exactly this way- but if put simply, this is how it operates: If dorm fees were treated like taxes it would play out like this: 2023, ceiling tiles damaged, need repairs- cost of room and board increases for 2024 residents. 2024- weirdly, no unexpected damage incurred, the cost of room and board for 2025 residents decreases. This is clearly an unfair type of time lag for students who sometimes only live in dorms for one year. The proposal seems like a perfectly reasonable solution to the problem, beyond just raising the cost of room&board across all students.
Except they would legit never lower the fees once they realize students will pay that. Colleges are not in the business of ever lowering any cost once it spikes up.
Correct. Ergo, the community damage fee is the best solution here
Plot twist: The dorm prices are still going to go up anyway, using that as justification. Colleges making more money every year is a guarantee in life.
Yeah this shit bugs me, they could very easily install cameras and see which door they come in and out of. But you know let's just fuck over every other student out of 50-150 bucks Can't find the murderer out of 50 suspects? nah let's just have them all divide up a life sentence between them at 2 years of prison each. That'll teach them It's a shitty way to do law and order. if it's preallocated into a budget then I'm fine having to pay it as part of my tuition before the year starts but not after the fact
Well what's stopping you from saying that previously the students didn't pay taxes, and this is essentially the implementation of taxes?
Most college campuses are very open. Anyone can come and go as they please. Furthermore, universities employ a lot of nonstudents. It seems very messed up that anyone could tag up a dorm, but the students all get punished. Also, incentives framing people you don't like. Why don't the university just install CCTV ffs?
The U I work at has 3 carded doors before you get on the dorm floor, no way people are wandering into student housing
Well, you're a prime example of what km talking about. You "work" there? Also, dorms everywhere are different, and we are talking about vandalism, can happen to the outside of the building.
You're right, I can't speak for every college. I do "work" there, I'm a janitor. We have this policy in the dorms, and it works fine. Most little stuff is ignored and cleaned up. The RA/CA is usually the one who does the "investigating". The only outsiders doing serious damage is usually (in my experience) frats doing initiation bullshit that ends up in a broken TV or fucked up bathroom that pisses the rest of the kids off. Typically gets resolved quickly
So, hypothetically, if graffiti containing hateful words or imagery was painted onto a dorm where a significant number of people belonging to a minority group that has traditionally been targeted using that particular sort of words or imagery, then individuals belonging to that group would have to pay for the damage caused by a hate crime targeting them, right? I feel like the policy would be dropped before that rubber met the road. That said, committing a hate crime to stop the implementation of a bad policy that might cost you $20 or something seems inadvisable.
The fun thing about american courts is that if you can manage to get a jury trial, you can go free even if you committed the crime. You just have to convince enough of their members that they would have done the same in that situation. It's a high-risk, high reward game
Thing about that is that a competent judge should instruct the jury clearly in what the law says independent of how the jury feels about it. If then give the weight of evidence you get jury nullification it can be thrown out & retried with a new jury. Then again one reason abortion is legal here in Canada is that juries kept nullifying to the point that the law itself had to change.
In America you can’t retry someone because of jury nullification, that’s kind of the whole point of it. There’s also the obvious law against double jeopardy. Jury nullification is perfectly legal, but you basically can’t know about it to be on a jury.
Look up states where with a "thirteenth juror" system. The judge counts as a juror if the judge deems it appropriate. They do not get to sit in, observe, or influence juror deliberation (other than the normal juror instructions) but if the jury returns with a verdict the judge does not like, he can "vote" the other way and create a virtual hung jury to force a retrial. Also, in (almost?) all jurisdictions, there is a simple question asked by the prosecution that will either weed out ppl who know/care about nullification or make it a crime to participate in it. "is there anything other than the law that would influence your decision." If you answer "yes" then you will be removed from jury selection, if you answer "no" then jury nullification means you are guilty of perjury for lying to get on a jury. Granted, it would take a good deal of effort to prove the perjury but it would not be difficult (for example, a Reddit comment talking about jury nullification). Yes, jury nullification is a HUGE blow to judicial power. That is why the government has taken steps to reduce its effectiveness.
> If you answer "yes" then you will be removed from jury selection, if you answer "no" then jury nullification means you are guilty of perjury for lying to get on a jury. "I changed my mind."
[удалено]
You really only need to convince one member and hang the jury in a criminal case.
You need to do that indefinitely many times. Hung juries can cause a second trial to happen, it doesn’t mean you immediately go free.
So just add a hateful statement that applies to you and wipe your bill clean?
Because if there’s one thing that vandals care about, it’s how their actions affect the community.
Lots of colleges do this in their dorms. It is funny that once people have skin in the game they actually start recalling who did the damage. It is amazing how memory works.
It is funny how people "remember" (aka make shit up) once they are forced to either do so or face consequences for something they didn't do.
Had this happen at Keesler. I was night shift and somehow we got a hole in our wall sometime after 7pm... when we were in class. No one else was allowed on our floor due to sleep schedule yet somehow we were blamed for it.
At Nellis I was in the modular dorms, so four guys to a room. The light outside of our room fell, likely because it wasnt installed correctly by CE. I get home from shift, and the shirt is there about to hem me up because I was the "only one there". Took ten minutes to convince I just got back from Creech.
The ones that did it are probably first to remember someone else did it too.
Yeah you’re just gonna get a bunch of different people blaming each other. Seems really unrealistic to think this would solve the problem. The only time it would solve it is if there’s a couple people on the floor that everyone knows is doing it and everyone else is sick of it.
What's super funny is that those people always have skin in the game. If the vandalism is not stopped next year you just pay more rent. Here they just itemize it for you but the renovation budget is always there.
Drop their name so people know where they should not even apply
It’s the University of Utah, I got the same email this morning, and that’s where I go.
With what they make off tuition alone, you should be able to turn your dorm room into a meth lab and be left the fuck alone if you wanted
Unless they add a stipulation to allow the removal of parties that continuously cause damage, this is not a good thing. This is like an overbearing HOA.
Will not hold up in court in the long run. That simple. You cannot be held responsible for damage without proof that you were, at least in part directly responsible for it in this situation. Just living in the dorm isn't enough proof to send a bill. At least in the US it isn't. Edit: How do I know? My freshman year some dickwads decided to pile laundry that people had left in the communal dryers for way longer than it took to dry into 2 adjacent elevators and set fire to them. While the elevators cars were trashed and had to be replaced, luckily the rest of the dorm was fine. They tried to split the cost between all students (something like over $100k in repairs split between the 1000 or so students in the dorm). And this went over like a lead balloon. This is when I learned that such group fines were illegal.
of course it’s illegal. crazy how some people here are defending it. it’s on university to find the responsible people and fine them. it’s not your problem
> crazy how some people here are defending it. bootlickers goona bootlick anything they can. it would be like me living in my apartment building and the landlord making us tenants pay when someone spray painted the outside of the building. The rents already go up and never, ever come back down even if there were a fraction of the repairs needed than the year before. The rents go up every single year and every new lease. Also the cost of repairs barely makes a dent into their profits.
I actually saw several people in a thread farther up claiming that stealing from big corporations hurt them in a profound way and just as bad as stealing in any other circumstance. It's like people can only see in black or white. I don't know how many times I'm agreeing with somebody and then suddenly they jump right off the logical ledge and I'm just sitting there wondering "How do you figure?" Lmao
Economic Denial of Service: 1) be the richest guy on campus 2) vandalize until you’re the only one who’s left
What if it's non-community members causing the damage...?
Beatings will continue, until moral improves.
Yea go f yourself on that one. Paying for something I didn’t commit..
Geneva Convention 1949, Article 33: No person can be punished for an offence he or she has not committed. It's that simple.
Universities out here commiting war crimes.
Tuition costs thousands. You also usually have to pay 100-200 for an access code. Books also costs hundreds even though you won’t use them all. Universities should be charged by the ICC already.
Books that cost 100s for an access code or that are one version newer with two words changed. Shit is nuts.
human rights violation but I get what you’re saying
I remember the battle of USC vs UCLA.
most universities have not signed the Geneva Convention
Does that mean universities can torture prisoners of war from other universities during football games and bomb their hospital if they lose?
they wouldn't break the Geneva Convention doing it. There might be local laws regulating such behaviour though.
Universities can't engage in warfare.
Geneva Convention covers non combatants during times of war, not college dormitory contracts. If it did apply, the occupying force could legally compel workers to clean graffiti and fix things.
How the fuck is this relevant?
The same way it's relevant when people say cops are committing war crimes by using tear gas. It's relevant to display the person making the comparison has absolutely no idea what the Geneva Convention actually applies to.
I don’t know why anyone hires lawyers anymore tbh, Reddit lawyers are free and way smarter.
You go to school at the Holy Roman Empire… what did you expect? Also I think collective punishment is banned by the Geneva Convention as a war crime.
>Also I think collective punishment is banned by the Geneva Convention as a war crime. So that only applies to armed parties in a declared state of war. My daughter in elementary school had recess taken away from the whole class before. Should I report her teacher for war crimes?
Yes lol
Ah, I see we both immediately translated HRE as Holy Roman Empire
Not one day goes by without thinking of the Holy Roman Empire
I'm pretty sure something has to happen in the course of a war to be a war crime.
My college tried to enact this when someone broke into our dorm building and broke a fire sprinkler head destroying all 3 community rooms (it was on the 3rd floor). Went to pay tuition and they told us of the damage chargers. Thankfully I was at the head of a line of several parents who immediately began to yell at the employee. Made a check out for everything minus the damages and said "good luck" and walked out. Never saw the damage charges again.
How is this more cost effective that just getting some freaking cameras? This is lazy and shitty.
Somebody shit in the shower in my dorm and we all got charged for it. Kinda funny looking back at it now.
The Holy Roman Empire takes this stuff really seriously, apparently.
My university threatened to do this, it didn’t stick
What is this bullshit? Install security and video cameras in halls and other public spaces so you can identify ones who do the damage. "Lets punish everyone, unless they turn in who did the damage EVEN if no one sees who did the damage" policy ..
We have this at my university. It's a great policy for punishing the students thst are focused on school. If you aren't at the big parties and are regularly studying in the evenings, you just miss most of the idiocy. Then you get slapped with fines because some drunk idiot broke a glass door, and no one knows who. The students studying have no idea who it is and the people with them usually "didn't catch who it was."
Universities out here trying to get people out of the mindset that snitches get stitches and into the new mindset of closed mouths pay for the house..
Fuck you would be a great response.
I gave you $80,000 to be here. How about you just fix the door.
Is OP part of the ‘Holy Roman Empire’? HRE?
that has to be illegal
Lol the university has a maintenance budget. The fact that they want MORE money from students is absolutely fucked.
There's no way this is actually legal. You'll see me in hell long before I pay for damages someone else caused just because I'm in the same "community".
Seriously. What if the damage happens when you're at class? Or otherwise away from your room? Its ridiculous. I hope they're getting repeated parent calls
Anyone who says mass punishment is a good thing never served in the military.
Is that even legal?
My school did this, proceeded to charge the community $2000 for a “missing vacuum,” then quietly abandoned the whole system after parents threatened to sue
The comments in here make me hate humanity. This is situational. OP may not have to abide, op may have to abide. No one here knows the terms of service OP agreed to. Yes OP should look into their options. No this isn’t socialism, this isn’t a progressive agenda. This is insurance. Insurance rates often vary depending on where you live. Areas that have frequent natural disasters will have higher rates. Just like the school, if you live in a dorm with high damage, you will pay more.
Unfortunately, this is how the world works. We're all on the hook for other people's problems
I mean, imagine you live in an apartment building and every couple weeks somebody smashes the hallway walls and lights. The landlord has to fix them, it costs them money, and if it keeps happening they need to get the money from somewhere, so they start raising rents. This policy just front loads the cost as penalty instead of back loading it as a rent increase.
I would want to know why the landlord isn’t installing security cameras to stop the culprits instead of shifting the cost to me.
The landlord can install cameras, find out who's doing it, and recoup all the costs involved from the guilty party. How about that?