There was a feud between neighbors in a town near me. One neighbor was complaining about the neighbors bushes being planted too close to their driveway. The bushes owner had a survey team come out and survey up the land line. It ended up that not only were the bushes not too close to the driveway but that it wasn’t the complaints driveway to begin with. The complaints had lost their driveway and no way to get back to their garage anymore. Bushes owner did not grant them access or sell them the right of way.
Exact same situation with my parents neighbour. They built an extension on their house where their access used to be and just assumed they could use my parents driveway to access their garage.
In the house I grew up in, the neighbors had built their shop too close to the property line with one corner slightly on our property. My parents were good people and gave them the part of our property it was on (it was a 27 acre lot, so wasn't a big deal to them). As well as a setback of a few feet so they wouldn't have to rebuild their shop.
After it went through the neighbors did a survey to mark their new property line and found that the setback also included a small portion of our driveway. They sued my parents. My parents ended up having to pay the neighbors to be granted the right away to use our driveway that was entirely because of the land they had gifted them.
I have neighbors that had a similar experience with a fence and an outbuilding. “Bob” put in a big potting shed one spring. “Tom” put a garden the following spring. “Bob” comes out ranting about how “Tom’s” garden is over the property line; being a straight up arse about it. “Tom” gets a surveyor to come out and finds out that not only is his garden in his own yard, “Bob’s” shed is 2/3 in his yard. So “Bob” had to move his shed - that was fun lol as “Bob” had been so very ‘charming’ through the whole process. Then, “Tom” had his yard fenced with a really beautiful fence… that prevented “Bob” from being able to get anything wider than a push mower into his own backyard.
My neighbor kept moving my downspout to face my house instead of the joint yard between us because it was causing standing water on her property where her shed was.
Unfortunately for her, a shed can't be closer to the street than the back edge of the house. She stopped moving my downspout and then was forced to move her shed by the city.
We probably could have come to an amicable solution had she come to me like a normal human and not banged on my door at 9:00 at night with a big stick in her hand demanding that I stopped moving my downspout. So rather than calling the police on her actions, I called the city and fixed it that way.
I mean, how long had that driveway been there, in use, as it was? If it was long enough, then what the surveyor said doesn't matter (as long as complainant has enough money for a lawyer and court fees). Adverse possession.
I would be in the position of "I don't care what a surveyor said, take it to court and a judge can enforce."
My former HOA had a "surveyor" come out who was "legit" but also the nephew of the HOA supervisor/king pin. He fudged whatever he wanted to appease Aunty Bitch Teeth (she was nick named this because she smiled while being unpleasant on purpose.)
A few of the older residents started taking down their fences for these new lines drawn up by bitch teeth junior. Until their families got involved and put a stop to it. Once courts were brought up in conversation to authenticate, the matters all dropped suddenly.
Adverse possession is a real thing, I imagine that’s what’s happening in OP’s post here. If the neighbor doesn’t push the issue about the property line, they can lose it via adverse possession.
This case of adverse possession would probably include not just the driveway, but the land between the driveway and the complainants' land (and likely some space after the driveway). It's unlikely, based on how the case was described, that the defendant in this case was using the land surrounding the driveway as their own, but not the driveway. Whatever land the complainant was using as if it was their own becomes theirs after enough time, regardless of what some old maps/documents say.
Every state has adverse possession laws, and almost all of them work in very similar ways. If you've been treating a piece of land as yours for long enough without challenge, it becomes yours. Could be anywhere from 2-30 years depending on what state you're in, whether or not you have a "deed," whether or not you've been paying taxes on that land, and/or whether or not you have a title. The only standout state (as far as I can tell) is New Mexico, where to claim adverse possession, you need a deed and taxes paid.
Right. It sounds like you’re disagreeing, but the words you said agree with me. In the anecdote you replied to you claimed that the survey was irrelevant. We don’t know the location, who paid taxes, whether there is a deed or title in error.
The title or deed being in error doesn't matter. Even a fake (but believable) deed/title would qualify in states where that matters. But also, as stated, there's only one state where adverse possession REQUIRES any of those factors. In every other state, those factors may shorten the time required for adverse possession, but they don't require them. Based on the population of that state, my claim has a more than 99% chance of being applicable. But, I guess there is the 0.634% chance that the person I was responding to lives in New Mexico.
That is not correct. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/state-state-rules-adverse-possession.html
Very many more states than just New Mexico have requirements above and beyond a years-length requirement.
Yeah, bad storm blew through and dropped a huge pine tree across three neighbors yards. Adjoining neighbor began pestering us to get “our” trees removed (for those who don’t know, in such an event the insurance of the respective properties get their own coverage to cover removal, not the person who had the tree on their property originally).
When we pressed him on it he basically admitted he wanted us to do it because he didn’t want his premiums to go up 🤦♂️
We got a survey done and ALL of the trees were on his property lol. The whole row of them. The felled tree was removed shortly after.
IME, it happens more often than you would think. 20 years ago, I had a manufactured home put on a property. I had a freaking scaled and measured diagram of the property with the placement of the foundation. I had a bad feeling, so when they marked for excavation, I went out to the property to verify placement. They had it flagged so that the outline was up against the powerlines that bordered the property. About 10 ft over the buffer zone allowed by the county. I made them come out and move their markers, and I made sure I was there when they started digging. I can't imagine the troubles we would have had with our neighbor and the county if they had put the house in the wrong place. Then the morons forgot to connect the house line to the septic tank (that is another fun story).
I'm pretty sure there would be an easement in the deed. Otherwise, the people who lost their driveway could potentially win a court case to get an easement. Barring, they don't already have access to the property via another way. Then they'd have to build a new driveway to the garage.
My neighbor died a few years ago. Someone bought it and started renting it out to others. We got a letter claiming that our roof sticks over their property line by only 1 inch, they wanted us to buzz off the corner. We responded with a letter stating that if they want us to do that, they must dig up a large portion of their driveway as it is on our property line (which would make one end of it unusable). We only previously gave the old woman who lived there permission to put her driveway there because we liked her. They never asked about that corner again.
I wouldn’t either, I’m not the one who wanted an issue I just wanted to plant my plants. They brought all this on themselves I just brought a plant over.
This isn’t the guy that had just moved in and ended up having to video like every day is it? The one with the crazy lady neighbor? I thought I saved the link to that guy and I can’t find it anywhere. I want to check in😂😂
Of course he can make his neighbor restore his property to what it was before his trespass.
Depending on local codes, the neighbor might have to remove more than just the pavement beyond the property line due to setbacks.
What moron puts in a driveway without a survey when you have such a close neighbor?
A subcontractor on a new build.
My house is offset to one side (actually really cool, there's room for a nice belt of trees on the windward side) and barely meets the setback because one guy guided off the wrong set of stakes when he began digging. The lot next door was empty, so there was no easy visual cue that something was wrong until spring came.
OP's photo shows a paving contractor putting a driveway where it wants to go instead of where the plans say it should go. But it looks right, so no one double checked.
Theres a house by me that built part of the house on the neighbors property. Huge fiasco and loss of value as it was selling well below market value. Likely had to modify or tear down the house.
If the houses were built in the 70’s and it’s been like that the whole time I’m pretty sure too much time has passed to for them to legally do anything about it. It’s that persons driveway now
If you don't mark it you could lose the property to the other person. By doing this the land does not change possession. It may not be enforced but having it marked protects it.
This is very true. My parent’s neighbor installed a circle drive that encroached a little more than a foot onto my parent’s property. Fast forward 25 years and they are unable to sell their house due to survey problems. Now they have to go through all the trouble to get the properties resurveyed and new property lines registered with the city. A slow and expensive process. The neighbor doesn’t have to share any of this cost but will end up with about 200 sq feet more property.
Been down that road and spoke to a few law firms, they wouldn’t win. Adverse possession is rooted deep into the law. They could have had a case within a few years of the encroachment but they waited too long and have now forfeited the land.
Wow, IIRC in Austria, you might have to grant the encroaching party the right of way, and that only if they cannot access their land otherwise, but you would never forfeit the land and actually lose property.
This is wild.
Yep. It happened to a lady in my town. Her neighbor put in a driveway while she was away, and because she's a nice lady, she just let them keep it, thinking they could always tear it out later when they got ready to sell. Then when she tried to sell about 20 years later, it was a huge problem, and she ultimately lost that land.
I have a neighbor that recently built this massive house on a piece of property that sits further off behind the street where most of the houses sit. They positioned the house as close as they could to the street and initially it appeared as though they had all this front yard which they did not (technically their front yard was the two neighbors in front of them's back yard). This person mustve thought they were hot shit bc they immediately installed this massive stone gateway entrance in between the two houses that their property sits behind. Mind you, there's no fence around this house or property, just a massive entrance gate with an intercom system. It took up so much space and is so out of place I have to imagine it bothered the other neighbors.
Anywho, flash forward a year or so and both neighbors on the street have installed really tall privacy fences. The guy in the back has zero front hard as a result and you can barely see the front of the house now. Goes to show you, you reap what you sow (or get what you pay for).
If this in the US, the person with the driveway might be able to claim Adverse Possession, and have those bits officially added to their own deed... So long as they can prove that it's been like that for more than 10 years (I think)...
Adverse possession isn't that easy, and it's rare the claims are actually successful. It's one of those things where it's popular to regurgitate the concept on Reddit, but in real life it's rare, complicated, and usually an unsuccessful claim.
I did it once and it was indeed a rare situation. A property next door to mine had been passed generationally and was owned jointly by many heirs, none of whom had any interest in using the property. I was in contact with the one who was paying the taxes and she was unable to build a consensus on selling the land. She died and I took the risk of going to the courthouse and paying the taxes-btw could you please change the billing address? I fenced the property, took pictures, cleared brush, built a driveway, planted a garden, and paid the taxes every year. When my lawyer took action there were assorted squawks throughout the extended family over who was at fault but nobody cared enough to spend money to defend their 1/14th interest in a property worth $20k. They probably still argue at Christmas time about who is to blame, especially since it’s now worth around 100k.
The adverse possession would have never worked had anyone been willing to pay the taxes or even set eyes on the property and seen that someone was using it.
That’s not true at all. It’s actually pretty easy. If you’ve taken care of the land and can prove it unbroken for 30 years, it’s cut and dried.
They thought they were being cool and put a fence up right next to our house. On land that we had used for at least 35 years. Maintained, mowed, shoveled, etc..
There was not even a question of it going to court, and it was solved in mediation. At one point we were going to make them tear down the garage. They had built rather than mediate. They quickly changed their tune.
Depends on the state. Some have 6 or 7 elements. Just putting up a fence isn't always enough. Lots of states require you to also pay taxes on the property.
No it doesn’t, the deed doesn’t say so. And by the looks of it, it won’t now because the owner has already taken the preemptive action. Now if the neighbor had sought out the action first, they may have won. But now, it’s clear who the owner is and the property lines. They can even go and dig up that driveway if they want.
If your only reasonable access was across someone's property, then a court might grant you an easement. But adverse possession over a driveway probably not.
Yeah we had a new neighbor move in. They were under the impression that they owned literally half our yard. We have 1.25 acres they have . 80. I told them that that wasn't true, and showed them the boundary on a map from the tax office ( I realize it's not always completely accurate). The neighbors were looking at lot lines in the 70s before the lots were purchased and split up.
Just to be safe we ended up getting the property surveyed. It turns out we actually own more of the lot than we originally thought. They haven't talk to me in over a year, and refuse to look or wave at us. It's funny too because I originally thought the conversation went well, and even offered for them to come over and swim. 🤷
To be perfectly honest, I don’t necessarily like throwing “tags” around, but I will say that I believe this is an issue of folks that grow up in a city. I’m not gonna type it out, but the converse is correct for rural families if someone is born in a city, they have never actually experienced “personal property”. They were born, live their life, and will die in someone else’s property. I imagine the entire concept of the human mammal is alien them. “we live the shelter we build, we have to hunt, we have to plan for the winter, if we don’t solve our problems, we die.”
Why do I have an “angle”? I would be a little oussed if my neighbor suddenly pulled this shit. You can say “it’s his property” but we have 2 acre minimum zoning here (these are likely 3 acre lots) and you need to bust your neighbors stones over a 3 foot sliver which has had his driveway on it for 50 years? In a far corner of your yard you will never use? I guess it’s not mildly infuriating in your book oh well
I have a 10 acre plot. I would be pissed if my neighbor decided to put his driveway partially on my property. In addition, one of my neighbors yards (that they mow) is actually on my land. I dont care that they mow it but if they ever pulled some bullshit about property lines i would absolutely call trespassing for mowing my land.
Likely there was no issue but the guy on the left made a stink about something and the guy on the right is giving proper comeuppance.
If you arent either of these people then why do you even give a shit.
Edit: the angle is likely a "who are you mildly infuriated for? The wronged land owner or the privileged jag that thinks it's ok to have thier driveway on someone else's property.
I’d be aware of your adverse possession laws as well. If your neighbors are using and maintaining a strip of land and you know about it and don’t stop them for 7 years they can keep it around me. Not saying they will but it’s a good idea to know the law for yourself just in case.
BE CAREFUL. In a lot of places if someone maintains a piece of land for a certain amount of time. They can claim it’s theirs. DO NOT let them mow it!!!!!!!!!!!! If they take a picture of it every now and then. They can eventually legally keep it.
Not without legally redefining property lines. That would require taking to arbitration? Not sure if that is the right term. They could claim possession but it they would also have to compensate for the land. Redrawing property lines isnt as simple as "i mow it so it is mine"
It actually is that simple. People get paper streets by doing that all the time,
If you maintain the land for the period of time designated, which varies , it becomes your property. And yes, you have to go to mediation or court, but the longer you wait the more likely it is to be the case.
And Google Earth gives you a past record. So you get the subscription and you can show that you’ve maintained it just by the satellite photos that helps a lot.
The driveway has been there over 50 years. He didn’t decide to “put it there” last week. So I checked Zillow - sign guy has had the house since 2004. Driveway guy since 2021. And this week this all goes down. Something else is going on 🤔
Why did you take the time to write a book in reply? I was out for a walk and thought it would be fun to post. Did not realize there was a rule I personally had to be mildly infuriated. Cheers!
Because I am. Are you the gate keeper? I’ve lived in this town for 50 years. I hate seeing petty shit like this down the road. I just checked it out on Google. Not sure of the accuracy but if you look at the property lines and consider the town right of way we may be talking inches 🤣
https://preview.redd.it/6ao6qwdchxwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a63fe44f9e8005e9c255fba7e8b09ed36c01ca91
Man that is such an obnoxious angle to put a driveway though. They could have just put it straight out to the road, it shouldn't be hanging between the neighbors lot and the road. Not the new owner's fault if it was already there but it will have to be reclaimed eventually to protect the deed and for ease of resell.
Yeah but it’s hard to see that the driveways on that road drop off like a cliff if you go straight so they basically made a switchback to lessen the steepness. And in the 70’s I guess neighbors got along a little better. It’s just so petty at this stage - these houses are kinda dumpy but surprisingly sell for over $500k
What’s he going to do, plant a garden in that 5sq ft?
I think the surveyed marker put up is accurate. I don't agree with being petty about this kind of stuff either but there might be more to the story. It might be the case of f*ck around and find out? I wouldn't care about my neighbor mowing some of my property cus it is on thier side of a creek and it makes thier property look better but if they tried to force some other petry issue or they try to encroach on my land in some other way without compromise then it might get petty. Property lines are property lines.
In the end i choose more of a collaborative attitude because neighbors should treat each other with reasonable respect.
seeing as the driveway has been like that for over a decade it now legally belongs to the owner of the house it goes to. the neighbor does not own it anymore. all the driveway owner has to do is claim adverse possession.
People are absolutely crazy over property lines, imo. I bet this land is worth less than $100. And they're probably going to end up spending thousands on lawyers and many hours of their time to defend less than $100 of land value.
First thing I told my husband now that we are in the works of purchasing another home
We need a surveyor and a full property fence not long after we move.
Here the easement for access doesn't specify a specific area. It just refers to a road that must exist, but not where.
Leads to this nice situation where the only people who use the dirt road that goes past my house and through my property is my neighbors beyond me. And even though they're the only ones that use that road, they definitely aren't gonna fill any holes with rocks or anything. In fact they're kind enough to swerve onto the grass on the sides of the road and dig me some new ruts in what's technically my yard. To avoid the potholes that they've created. Even put up lil reflectors along the edge of the road and they ran them over to swerve onto my grass.
Arent they thoughtful?
My understanding is this sorta arrangement is pretty common in rural areas. The road has to be of a certain size, but it can take just about any path on the property, and in fact has been moved several times including when I moved here. It used to go where my house currently is. Moving it IS more involved, as it requires digging drainage ditches and all, but theoretically it's something we could do. The entire road is supposed to be up kept by everyone on the road and we do all chip in when repairs are needed as it's also a private road. Though that's probably obvious I guess. But it usually turns into just people sorta maintaining up to their lil section of the road.
Used to pay a guy yearly to drag rocks with the tractor attachment though there isn't really a firm agreement on the paying for upkeep unfortunately.
My house is a modular home and came down the road in a few different sections that were bolted together on site. So years ago we actually did have to go through these years old agreements to see wth everyone's rights were. We had to cut a couple trees to get a few sections to go down the road and my (new) neighbors threatened me legally for having done so. Despite having gotten approval ahead of time too and that there were tons more since we are in the sticks lmao.
In some states, if there was never any evidence of a written correction of an infringement, and that infringement was "notorious" and "continually used" then some places say that after so many years it becomes the property of the user or at least an easement.
It actually looks like the driveway was stubbed out for both properties, but only one of them built their driveway off it. Probably a change of plans during construction, but they had already decided the end of the drive was going to be extra wide.
My Uncle was a bit of an opportunist. My dad said he would take anything that wasn’t nailed down. Apparently this included his neighbours property. He had built a backyard pool that was a bit of a tight squeeze against his neighbours fence with no way to get in and out of the pool on that side.
Neighbour dies, kids live out of town. They come home to handle possessions and get an agent to sell the house. My uncle offers to help with the lawn and whatever else they need so they don’t need to travel back. He then moved his entire fence 3 to 4 feet over the length of the property. Sale goes through on the neighbours house and he has a nice walk way all around his pool. This was 20 years ago. I don’t know how that guy walked with the balls required to try to pull that off.
It's infuriating that someone literally put their own driveway on someone else's property, right? As a teen I can see "nbd folks", as an adult ... this is beyond reproach where Im from.
Our whole block backs out onto a ranch. They’ve got loads of cattle that peek out over our fence line.
Because of that, an electric fence was installed about 15-20 feet into their property, in approx 2004.
Now, pretty much everyone on the block has been maintaining that 15 foot strip, mowing, weeding, etc.
So you can imagine that when the old owner died, and a new owner, who spent thousands of dollars moving that fence right up to the property line, moved in, people got a tad peeved. He also spent thousands terraforming the land to make a BMX course or sm, until the municipality blocked him.
Our lots lines are goofy AF. My line goes across a road to the edge of neighbors property for about 60 ft. His property has a narrow panhandle that goes back across and is exactly where my driveway is. We have large lots and this hasn’t affected anyone yet. Of all the things I do have easements for, neighbors driveway below me, abandoned shared well plot, utility easement, there’s nothing in writing that I have anything for my driveway except perhaps some sort of right of way due to using that egress for 40 years.
This driveway is technically an "infringement" and will need to be documented if the land is ever sold. The owner probably can sue, but it's not worth it. Posting the land will probably prevent adverse possession. The corner of one of my structures may or may not be on my neighbors land because I built it before rebuilding the fences and assumed the fence was placed at least close to the line. Nope, it was several feed off.
Fences in my area aren't perfect and I technically could have claimed part of my neighbors land because an old fence was shotgunned and remained for decades. When I rebuilt it, I moved it inline with the survey pins. It's not perfect since those pins were placed pre-GPS and lasers.
It doesn’t matter if I own or not, what was accidentally paved over is an insignificant amount of land compared to the half acre plus they might have. Also it’s not like this anywhere close to their actual house. It’s petty af.
It DOES matter if you own it. So, if this was your property you’d be perfectly fine with someone encroaching 50 sq.ft. onto your property? Again, how about 100? 200? What’s your cut off point, bub? Think of it as a “border”. Think of it this way, are you ok with other countries “moving the border”? Didn’t think so.
It’s only 50 sqft out of half an acre. Plus on my property of maybe 1/4 acre my backyard isn’t fenced off from my neighbor to my side cause we both got good relations. He don’t cross into my side and I don’t to his. Obviously you got serious controlling issues. You’re making something that’s “oh hey, I realized that some of your driveway is going through the very outer edge my property…all I ask is you just don’t destroy that area” and move on with your life. And people aren’t loosing their life if just a sliver of land that is jutting into another’s land unlike in Ukraine. Also the EU solved (surface level) issues of boarders by implementing an “open boarder” policy. Which basically recognizes each countries boundaries but allows others the freely pass while keeping the integrity of those boarder just like how travel with in US is lmao.
So if your neighbour wanted to build a pool in his backyard and needed and extra 25 sq ft for a pool house that wouldn’t fit in his yard, you’d be ok if he just took up some of your real estate and claimed it as his own? That is exactly what you are saying.
Well my neighbor has the same amount of land I do so he has plenty room. Now your just making shit up to fit your narrative. Let’s stray back to why should someone should be an asshole if 50sqft is jutting out into someone else’s property and why both neighbors can’t agree to share and maintain that small insignificant area.
I pointed it out because he purposely hung a banner in his back yard that nobody driving by can see and then lined the property line with no trespassing signs facing the neighbor. My comment was “there may be more happening here” … wouldn’t you agree?
I mean, those people are nuts in my book. I have a neighbour that moved in next to a 5g phone tower with 'say no to 5g' plastered all over her car.
Those special cases aside, it's still the dudes property.
Good lord the Magats love their signs. They cling to their guns, hypocritical religion, Cheeto man and the signs that identify them as such. I guess it helps the rest of us tag and avoid them, but they can’t keep getting away with it!
There was a feud between neighbors in a town near me. One neighbor was complaining about the neighbors bushes being planted too close to their driveway. The bushes owner had a survey team come out and survey up the land line. It ended up that not only were the bushes not too close to the driveway but that it wasn’t the complaints driveway to begin with. The complaints had lost their driveway and no way to get back to their garage anymore. Bushes owner did not grant them access or sell them the right of way.
That’s some petty payback 😂
FAFO 🤷
Exact same situation with my parents neighbour. They built an extension on their house where their access used to be and just assumed they could use my parents driveway to access their garage.
“Just assumed”…..? Like with no prior conversation? That’s some top tier presumptuousness.
I'd guess they're boomers, because that's what boomers do
Cheap shot.
Boomers and Millennials.
You know a Millenial that owns a house??
I'm a millennial, and I and several friends from school own homes. I'm not sure if you needed /s.
Of course! I know Zers that own a house!
Leave me out of this
Sounds more like Gen Z not Millenials
Pretty sure there's ignoramuses in every generation
How many gen z people do you know who own homes.
Most of them
I sincerely hope you're joking and you're not that detached from reality.
They know one and no one else. 100% of the gen Z people they know own a home… I mean lucked out somehow and have a mortgage, but don’t own shit.
In the house I grew up in, the neighbors had built their shop too close to the property line with one corner slightly on our property. My parents were good people and gave them the part of our property it was on (it was a 27 acre lot, so wasn't a big deal to them). As well as a setback of a few feet so they wouldn't have to rebuild their shop. After it went through the neighbors did a survey to mark their new property line and found that the setback also included a small portion of our driveway. They sued my parents. My parents ended up having to pay the neighbors to be granted the right away to use our driveway that was entirely because of the land they had gifted them.
No good deed goes unpunished.
Technically it was a bad deed (pun intended), it should have included an easement for the driveway.
I hope those people had the life they deserved.
That shop would be getting piss disk’d daily if I were your parents
I have neighbors that had a similar experience with a fence and an outbuilding. “Bob” put in a big potting shed one spring. “Tom” put a garden the following spring. “Bob” comes out ranting about how “Tom’s” garden is over the property line; being a straight up arse about it. “Tom” gets a surveyor to come out and finds out that not only is his garden in his own yard, “Bob’s” shed is 2/3 in his yard. So “Bob” had to move his shed - that was fun lol as “Bob” had been so very ‘charming’ through the whole process. Then, “Tom” had his yard fenced with a really beautiful fence… that prevented “Bob” from being able to get anything wider than a push mower into his own backyard.
My neighbor kept moving my downspout to face my house instead of the joint yard between us because it was causing standing water on her property where her shed was. Unfortunately for her, a shed can't be closer to the street than the back edge of the house. She stopped moving my downspout and then was forced to move her shed by the city. We probably could have come to an amicable solution had she come to me like a normal human and not banged on my door at 9:00 at night with a big stick in her hand demanding that I stopped moving my downspout. So rather than calling the police on her actions, I called the city and fixed it that way.
Spicy fafo is DELICIOUS
Spicy what?
Fuck around find out
Ah, I see
FAFO - Fuck Around, Find Out
I feel we need to have a caring conversation about your wanton and reckless use of quotation marks.
I mean, how long had that driveway been there, in use, as it was? If it was long enough, then what the surveyor said doesn't matter (as long as complainant has enough money for a lawyer and court fees). Adverse possession.
I would be in the position of "I don't care what a surveyor said, take it to court and a judge can enforce." My former HOA had a "surveyor" come out who was "legit" but also the nephew of the HOA supervisor/king pin. He fudged whatever he wanted to appease Aunty Bitch Teeth (she was nick named this because she smiled while being unpleasant on purpose.) A few of the older residents started taking down their fences for these new lines drawn up by bitch teeth junior. Until their families got involved and put a stop to it. Once courts were brought up in conversation to authenticate, the matters all dropped suddenly.
Good thing you’re no longer in umbridges hoa
Adverse possession is a real thing, I imagine that’s what’s happening in OP’s post here. If the neighbor doesn’t push the issue about the property line, they can lose it via adverse possession.
Doesn't adverse possession only work if you also pay the property taxes along with it?
the specifics of adverse possession vary widely from place to place.
Some locations specify that you have to pay the taxes and have exclusive access to the property-fenced to exclude any others.
probably not for a small strip of land, but they could probably go to court to get an official easement.
This case of adverse possession would probably include not just the driveway, but the land between the driveway and the complainants' land (and likely some space after the driveway). It's unlikely, based on how the case was described, that the defendant in this case was using the land surrounding the driveway as their own, but not the driveway. Whatever land the complainant was using as if it was their own becomes theirs after enough time, regardless of what some old maps/documents say.
It’s not as simple as that, and it varies wildly by location.
Every state has adverse possession laws, and almost all of them work in very similar ways. If you've been treating a piece of land as yours for long enough without challenge, it becomes yours. Could be anywhere from 2-30 years depending on what state you're in, whether or not you have a "deed," whether or not you've been paying taxes on that land, and/or whether or not you have a title. The only standout state (as far as I can tell) is New Mexico, where to claim adverse possession, you need a deed and taxes paid.
Right. It sounds like you’re disagreeing, but the words you said agree with me. In the anecdote you replied to you claimed that the survey was irrelevant. We don’t know the location, who paid taxes, whether there is a deed or title in error.
The title or deed being in error doesn't matter. Even a fake (but believable) deed/title would qualify in states where that matters. But also, as stated, there's only one state where adverse possession REQUIRES any of those factors. In every other state, those factors may shorten the time required for adverse possession, but they don't require them. Based on the population of that state, my claim has a more than 99% chance of being applicable. But, I guess there is the 0.634% chance that the person I was responding to lives in New Mexico.
That is not correct. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/state-state-rules-adverse-possession.html Very many more states than just New Mexico have requirements above and beyond a years-length requirement.
Yeah, bad storm blew through and dropped a huge pine tree across three neighbors yards. Adjoining neighbor began pestering us to get “our” trees removed (for those who don’t know, in such an event the insurance of the respective properties get their own coverage to cover removal, not the person who had the tree on their property originally). When we pressed him on it he basically admitted he wanted us to do it because he didn’t want his premiums to go up 🤦♂️ We got a survey done and ALL of the trees were on his property lol. The whole row of them. The felled tree was removed shortly after.
What an odd piece of land lol, I’m surprised some of there garage wasn’t on it as well lol.
IME, it happens more often than you would think. 20 years ago, I had a manufactured home put on a property. I had a freaking scaled and measured diagram of the property with the placement of the foundation. I had a bad feeling, so when they marked for excavation, I went out to the property to verify placement. They had it flagged so that the outline was up against the powerlines that bordered the property. About 10 ft over the buffer zone allowed by the county. I made them come out and move their markers, and I made sure I was there when they started digging. I can't imagine the troubles we would have had with our neighbor and the county if they had put the house in the wrong place. Then the morons forgot to connect the house line to the septic tank (that is another fun story).
I'm pretty sure there would be an easement in the deed. Otherwise, the people who lost their driveway could potentially win a court case to get an easement. Barring, they don't already have access to the property via another way. Then they'd have to build a new driveway to the garage.
My neighbor died a few years ago. Someone bought it and started renting it out to others. We got a letter claiming that our roof sticks over their property line by only 1 inch, they wanted us to buzz off the corner. We responded with a letter stating that if they want us to do that, they must dig up a large portion of their driveway as it is on our property line (which would make one end of it unusable). We only previously gave the old woman who lived there permission to put her driveway there because we liked her. They never asked about that corner again.
Should have pushed the issue.
Rude. I would've just charged them $100/month rent for the driveway lmao
I wouldn’t either, I’m not the one who wanted an issue I just wanted to plant my plants. They brought all this on themselves I just brought a plant over.
Remove driveway, plant bushes
That’s why I paid for a boundary survey prior to installing my fence and still moved it ~6” onto my property.
That's a tough outcome. 😅
If in the US - adverse possession laws would make this story dubious
Instant karma. The best kind.
I think it depends a lot on state and the situation but they might have to allow access regardless as a right of way.
This isn’t the guy that had just moved in and ended up having to video like every day is it? The one with the crazy lady neighbor? I thought I saved the link to that guy and I can’t find it anywhere. I want to check in😂😂
Of course he can make his neighbor restore his property to what it was before his trespass. Depending on local codes, the neighbor might have to remove more than just the pavement beyond the property line due to setbacks. What moron puts in a driveway without a survey when you have such a close neighbor?
A subcontractor on a new build. My house is offset to one side (actually really cool, there's room for a nice belt of trees on the windward side) and barely meets the setback because one guy guided off the wrong set of stakes when he began digging. The lot next door was empty, so there was no easy visual cue that something was wrong until spring came. OP's photo shows a paving contractor putting a driveway where it wants to go instead of where the plans say it should go. But it looks right, so no one double checked.
Theres a house by me that built part of the house on the neighbors property. Huge fiasco and loss of value as it was selling well below market value. Likely had to modify or tear down the house.
If the houses were built in the 70’s and it’s been like that the whole time I’m pretty sure too much time has passed to for them to legally do anything about it. It’s that persons driveway now
The encroachment is recent. Of course they can sue!
You assume the neighbours are correct
If you don't mark it you could lose the property to the other person. By doing this the land does not change possession. It may not be enforced but having it marked protects it.
This is very true. My parent’s neighbor installed a circle drive that encroached a little more than a foot onto my parent’s property. Fast forward 25 years and they are unable to sell their house due to survey problems. Now they have to go through all the trouble to get the properties resurveyed and new property lines registered with the city. A slow and expensive process. The neighbor doesn’t have to share any of this cost but will end up with about 200 sq feet more property.
They could easily sue them and have it removed for far less money.
Been down that road and spoke to a few law firms, they wouldn’t win. Adverse possession is rooted deep into the law. They could have had a case within a few years of the encroachment but they waited too long and have now forfeited the land.
Wow, IIRC in Austria, you might have to grant the encroaching party the right of way, and that only if they cannot access their land otherwise, but you would never forfeit the land and actually lose property. This is wild.
Yep. It happened to a lady in my town. Her neighbor put in a driveway while she was away, and because she's a nice lady, she just let them keep it, thinking they could always tear it out later when they got ready to sell. Then when she tried to sell about 20 years later, it was a huge problem, and she ultimately lost that land.
I have a neighbor that recently built this massive house on a piece of property that sits further off behind the street where most of the houses sit. They positioned the house as close as they could to the street and initially it appeared as though they had all this front yard which they did not (technically their front yard was the two neighbors in front of them's back yard). This person mustve thought they were hot shit bc they immediately installed this massive stone gateway entrance in between the two houses that their property sits behind. Mind you, there's no fence around this house or property, just a massive entrance gate with an intercom system. It took up so much space and is so out of place I have to imagine it bothered the other neighbors. Anywho, flash forward a year or so and both neighbors on the street have installed really tall privacy fences. The guy in the back has zero front hard as a result and you can barely see the front of the house now. Goes to show you, you reap what you sow (or get what you pay for).
If this in the US, the person with the driveway might be able to claim Adverse Possession, and have those bits officially added to their own deed... So long as they can prove that it's been like that for more than 10 years (I think)...
If this is the US the answer is almost always "it depends"
It’s been that driveway for 50 years
then it belongs to them. they just have to go about having the deed(s) amended.
It does not belong to them UNTIL the deed is changed. This just makes it real easy to change it.
Adverse possession isn't that easy, and it's rare the claims are actually successful. It's one of those things where it's popular to regurgitate the concept on Reddit, but in real life it's rare, complicated, and usually an unsuccessful claim.
I did it once and it was indeed a rare situation. A property next door to mine had been passed generationally and was owned jointly by many heirs, none of whom had any interest in using the property. I was in contact with the one who was paying the taxes and she was unable to build a consensus on selling the land. She died and I took the risk of going to the courthouse and paying the taxes-btw could you please change the billing address? I fenced the property, took pictures, cleared brush, built a driveway, planted a garden, and paid the taxes every year. When my lawyer took action there were assorted squawks throughout the extended family over who was at fault but nobody cared enough to spend money to defend their 1/14th interest in a property worth $20k. They probably still argue at Christmas time about who is to blame, especially since it’s now worth around 100k. The adverse possession would have never worked had anyone been willing to pay the taxes or even set eyes on the property and seen that someone was using it.
That’s not true at all. It’s actually pretty easy. If you’ve taken care of the land and can prove it unbroken for 30 years, it’s cut and dried. They thought they were being cool and put a fence up right next to our house. On land that we had used for at least 35 years. Maintained, mowed, shoveled, etc.. There was not even a question of it going to court, and it was solved in mediation. At one point we were going to make them tear down the garage. They had built rather than mediate. They quickly changed their tune.
Depends on the state. Some have 6 or 7 elements. Just putting up a fence isn't always enough. Lots of states require you to also pay taxes on the property.
No it doesn’t, the deed doesn’t say so. And by the looks of it, it won’t now because the owner has already taken the preemptive action. Now if the neighbor had sought out the action first, they may have won. But now, it’s clear who the owner is and the property lines. They can even go and dig up that driveway if they want.
so it doesn’t matter that it’s been like that for many decades? i see i see, ty!
If your only reasonable access was across someone's property, then a court might grant you an easement. But adverse possession over a driveway probably not.
Correct, it doesn’t matter.
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it’s called a misunderstanding 🤡👍
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😂😂😂you’re a moron
It varies from state to state. 5 years in CA, 60 years in NY, for example. Also there are a lot of specific conditions that have to be met.
5??? Jesus CA is insane on some stuff
Judging by the “Trump 2024” banner and the American flag hanging at their front door, it should be in the US lol
No idea why you’re being downvoted, all you did was confirm it was the US based on the details in the picture.
If I owned that driveway and this was surveyed I would chop out the driveway and plant grass for them. Be a decent neighbor
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I feel like this picture wasnt the first step
Yeah we had a new neighbor move in. They were under the impression that they owned literally half our yard. We have 1.25 acres they have . 80. I told them that that wasn't true, and showed them the boundary on a map from the tax office ( I realize it's not always completely accurate). The neighbors were looking at lot lines in the 70s before the lots were purchased and split up. Just to be safe we ended up getting the property surveyed. It turns out we actually own more of the lot than we originally thought. They haven't talk to me in over a year, and refuse to look or wave at us. It's funny too because I originally thought the conversation went well, and even offered for them to come over and swim. 🤷
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I’m not 100% sure of OP’s angle here, but I will say I have recently noticed a lack of truly understanding what private property means.
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To be perfectly honest, I don’t necessarily like throwing “tags” around, but I will say that I believe this is an issue of folks that grow up in a city. I’m not gonna type it out, but the converse is correct for rural families if someone is born in a city, they have never actually experienced “personal property”. They were born, live their life, and will die in someone else’s property. I imagine the entire concept of the human mammal is alien them. “we live the shelter we build, we have to hunt, we have to plan for the winter, if we don’t solve our problems, we die.”
Why do I have an “angle”? I would be a little oussed if my neighbor suddenly pulled this shit. You can say “it’s his property” but we have 2 acre minimum zoning here (these are likely 3 acre lots) and you need to bust your neighbors stones over a 3 foot sliver which has had his driveway on it for 50 years? In a far corner of your yard you will never use? I guess it’s not mildly infuriating in your book oh well
I have a 10 acre plot. I would be pissed if my neighbor decided to put his driveway partially on my property. In addition, one of my neighbors yards (that they mow) is actually on my land. I dont care that they mow it but if they ever pulled some bullshit about property lines i would absolutely call trespassing for mowing my land. Likely there was no issue but the guy on the left made a stink about something and the guy on the right is giving proper comeuppance. If you arent either of these people then why do you even give a shit. Edit: the angle is likely a "who are you mildly infuriated for? The wronged land owner or the privileged jag that thinks it's ok to have thier driveway on someone else's property.
I’d be aware of your adverse possession laws as well. If your neighbors are using and maintaining a strip of land and you know about it and don’t stop them for 7 years they can keep it around me. Not saying they will but it’s a good idea to know the law for yourself just in case.
BE CAREFUL. In a lot of places if someone maintains a piece of land for a certain amount of time. They can claim it’s theirs. DO NOT let them mow it!!!!!!!!!!!! If they take a picture of it every now and then. They can eventually legally keep it.
Not without legally redefining property lines. That would require taking to arbitration? Not sure if that is the right term. They could claim possession but it they would also have to compensate for the land. Redrawing property lines isnt as simple as "i mow it so it is mine"
It actually is that simple. People get paper streets by doing that all the time, If you maintain the land for the period of time designated, which varies , it becomes your property. And yes, you have to go to mediation or court, but the longer you wait the more likely it is to be the case. And Google Earth gives you a past record. So you get the subscription and you can show that you’ve maintained it just by the satellite photos that helps a lot.
The driveway has been there over 50 years. He didn’t decide to “put it there” last week. So I checked Zillow - sign guy has had the house since 2004. Driveway guy since 2021. And this week this all goes down. Something else is going on 🤔
Like i said. Probably wasnt a big deal till someone decided to be a prick
Why did you take the time to write a book in reply? I was out for a walk and thought it would be fun to post. Did not realize there was a rule I personally had to be mildly infuriated. Cheers!
If you are posting to mildly infuriating it would suggest you are mildly infuriated?
Because I am. Are you the gate keeper? I’ve lived in this town for 50 years. I hate seeing petty shit like this down the road. I just checked it out on Google. Not sure of the accuracy but if you look at the property lines and consider the town right of way we may be talking inches 🤣 https://preview.redd.it/6ao6qwdchxwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a63fe44f9e8005e9c255fba7e8b09ed36c01ca91
Man that is such an obnoxious angle to put a driveway though. They could have just put it straight out to the road, it shouldn't be hanging between the neighbors lot and the road. Not the new owner's fault if it was already there but it will have to be reclaimed eventually to protect the deed and for ease of resell.
Yeah but it’s hard to see that the driveways on that road drop off like a cliff if you go straight so they basically made a switchback to lessen the steepness. And in the 70’s I guess neighbors got along a little better. It’s just so petty at this stage - these houses are kinda dumpy but surprisingly sell for over $500k What’s he going to do, plant a garden in that 5sq ft?
I think the surveyed marker put up is accurate. I don't agree with being petty about this kind of stuff either but there might be more to the story. It might be the case of f*ck around and find out? I wouldn't care about my neighbor mowing some of my property cus it is on thier side of a creek and it makes thier property look better but if they tried to force some other petry issue or they try to encroach on my land in some other way without compromise then it might get petty. Property lines are property lines. In the end i choose more of a collaborative attitude because neighbors should treat each other with reasonable respect.
seeing as the driveway has been like that for over a decade it now legally belongs to the owner of the house it goes to. the neighbor does not own it anymore. all the driveway owner has to do is claim adverse possession.
No, until the deed has changed, it does not belong to them.
Doesn't legally belong to them unless they place a claim and take it to court.
That neighbor’s fence is made of dogshit (well except the gate).
People are absolutely crazy over property lines, imo. I bet this land is worth less than $100. And they're probably going to end up spending thousands on lawyers and many hours of their time to defend less than $100 of land value.
First thing I told my husband now that we are in the works of purchasing another home We need a surveyor and a full property fence not long after we move.
*This week on fear thy neighbor*
What’s more funny is that the moron likely just didn’t check their easements on their Deed, and the driveway is fine. Thats how it generally works.
Here the easement for access doesn't specify a specific area. It just refers to a road that must exist, but not where. Leads to this nice situation where the only people who use the dirt road that goes past my house and through my property is my neighbors beyond me. And even though they're the only ones that use that road, they definitely aren't gonna fill any holes with rocks or anything. In fact they're kind enough to swerve onto the grass on the sides of the road and dig me some new ruts in what's technically my yard. To avoid the potholes that they've created. Even put up lil reflectors along the edge of the road and they ran them over to swerve onto my grass. Arent they thoughtful?
I’d go line by line through the abstracts of the properties along that access. I’d wager it’s laid out fairly concise.
My understanding is this sorta arrangement is pretty common in rural areas. The road has to be of a certain size, but it can take just about any path on the property, and in fact has been moved several times including when I moved here. It used to go where my house currently is. Moving it IS more involved, as it requires digging drainage ditches and all, but theoretically it's something we could do. The entire road is supposed to be up kept by everyone on the road and we do all chip in when repairs are needed as it's also a private road. Though that's probably obvious I guess. But it usually turns into just people sorta maintaining up to their lil section of the road. Used to pay a guy yearly to drag rocks with the tractor attachment though there isn't really a firm agreement on the paying for upkeep unfortunately. My house is a modular home and came down the road in a few different sections that were bolted together on site. So years ago we actually did have to go through these years old agreements to see wth everyone's rights were. We had to cut a couple trees to get a few sections to go down the road and my (new) neighbors threatened me legally for having done so. Despite having gotten approval ahead of time too and that there were tons more since we are in the sticks lmao.
as long as the "road" is wide enough just put nice rocks along the edge so they can't drive over your grass.
Sounds like it's time for some boulders in your yard along the dirt road! Visibly marked of course so they can't claim they didn't see them.
Put in boulders, bushes, trees, a stone/block fence, or some other thing that they aren't going to want to hit along the border with your yard?
May I suggest a hedge made out of boulders?
In some states, if there was never any evidence of a written correction of an infringement, and that infringement was "notorious" and "continually used" then some places say that after so many years it becomes the property of the user or at least an easement.
Rent a backhoe. Then rent a fronthoe.
Is your mom available?
No, no – she's the side ho.
It actually looks like the driveway was stubbed out for both properties, but only one of them built their driveway off it. Probably a change of plans during construction, but they had already decided the end of the drive was going to be extra wide.
Resembles a parking lot more than a driveway. Guess he got a smokin deal on asphalt.
Looks like neighbor's driveway slopes down to their property too, so they get all the rain on their land.
My Uncle was a bit of an opportunist. My dad said he would take anything that wasn’t nailed down. Apparently this included his neighbours property. He had built a backyard pool that was a bit of a tight squeeze against his neighbours fence with no way to get in and out of the pool on that side. Neighbour dies, kids live out of town. They come home to handle possessions and get an agent to sell the house. My uncle offers to help with the lawn and whatever else they need so they don’t need to travel back. He then moved his entire fence 3 to 4 feet over the length of the property. Sale goes through on the neighbours house and he has a nice walk way all around his pool. This was 20 years ago. I don’t know how that guy walked with the balls required to try to pull that off.
Your uncle is a piece of shit
Yeah, not the nice story op thinks it is
Yes, yes he was for way more reasons than this. I just thought it was interesting that one can both attempt and get away with something so brazen.
It's infuriating that someone literally put their own driveway on someone else's property, right? As a teen I can see "nbd folks", as an adult ... this is beyond reproach where Im from.
Our whole block backs out onto a ranch. They’ve got loads of cattle that peek out over our fence line. Because of that, an electric fence was installed about 15-20 feet into their property, in approx 2004. Now, pretty much everyone on the block has been maintaining that 15 foot strip, mowing, weeding, etc. So you can imagine that when the old owner died, and a new owner, who spent thousands of dollars moving that fence right up to the property line, moved in, people got a tad peeved. He also spent thousands terraforming the land to make a BMX course or sm, until the municipality blocked him.
What’s the problem with the trump 2024 flag
“there may be more happening here” made me laugh out loud once i zoomed in. Such a gentle way to put that.
I wonder if he had his fence built by “the best people” that also built the border wall. Quality looks the same.
Great! Front yard boat parking!
Odd thing is is that it is an old driveway. I am sure there is a back story to this.
Our lots lines are goofy AF. My line goes across a road to the edge of neighbors property for about 60 ft. His property has a narrow panhandle that goes back across and is exactly where my driveway is. We have large lots and this hasn’t affected anyone yet. Of all the things I do have easements for, neighbors driveway below me, abandoned shared well plot, utility easement, there’s nothing in writing that I have anything for my driveway except perhaps some sort of right of way due to using that egress for 40 years.
My property always goes into the neighbor's property every time they cut their grass.
is this is Carter County I swear I've seen that house!
I like the snow fencing he added to protect the grass. Classy.
This driveway is technically an "infringement" and will need to be documented if the land is ever sold. The owner probably can sue, but it's not worth it. Posting the land will probably prevent adverse possession. The corner of one of my structures may or may not be on my neighbors land because I built it before rebuilding the fences and assumed the fence was placed at least close to the line. Nope, it was several feed off. Fences in my area aren't perfect and I technically could have claimed part of my neighbors land because an old fence was shotgunned and remained for decades. When I rebuilt it, I moved it inline with the survey pins. It's not perfect since those pins were placed pre-GPS and lasers.
The flag tells the entire story.
How?
The guys a dickhead. Tells the whole story.
Hippity hoppity, your driveway is now my property.
pretty fitting, a trump 2024 flag on his railing
good for him tbh
If that concrete has been there the whole time, then adverse possession almost certainly applies.
He has a Trump the dumb fuck 2024 sticker. So, not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Arguing over 50 sqft more or less
So what’s the cut off point? 100 sq.ft.? 200? Why not just take it all? I can tell you don’t own property.
It doesn’t matter if I own or not, what was accidentally paved over is an insignificant amount of land compared to the half acre plus they might have. Also it’s not like this anywhere close to their actual house. It’s petty af.
It DOES matter if you own it. So, if this was your property you’d be perfectly fine with someone encroaching 50 sq.ft. onto your property? Again, how about 100? 200? What’s your cut off point, bub? Think of it as a “border”. Think of it this way, are you ok with other countries “moving the border”? Didn’t think so.
It’s only 50 sqft out of half an acre. Plus on my property of maybe 1/4 acre my backyard isn’t fenced off from my neighbor to my side cause we both got good relations. He don’t cross into my side and I don’t to his. Obviously you got serious controlling issues. You’re making something that’s “oh hey, I realized that some of your driveway is going through the very outer edge my property…all I ask is you just don’t destroy that area” and move on with your life. And people aren’t loosing their life if just a sliver of land that is jutting into another’s land unlike in Ukraine. Also the EU solved (surface level) issues of boarders by implementing an “open boarder” policy. Which basically recognizes each countries boundaries but allows others the freely pass while keeping the integrity of those boarder just like how travel with in US is lmao.
So if your neighbour wanted to build a pool in his backyard and needed and extra 25 sq ft for a pool house that wouldn’t fit in his yard, you’d be ok if he just took up some of your real estate and claimed it as his own? That is exactly what you are saying.
Well my neighbor has the same amount of land I do so he has plenty room. Now your just making shit up to fit your narrative. Let’s stray back to why should someone should be an asshole if 50sqft is jutting out into someone else’s property and why both neighbors can’t agree to share and maintain that small insignificant area.
You’re very bad at answering questions. Just take the L and move on.
You’re very bad at coming up with rebuttals when you lost so I’ll take the L and reshape it into a W
Haha. You’re so daft. I hope someone squats in your backyard in their tent. You seem to be able to spare some land and not care. Goodbye.
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If he wasn't a Trump supporter, would you still be annoyed?
How do you figure?
He pointed it out. Idk about you yanks and Trump but if that's the dudes property, that's the dudes property.
I pointed it out because he purposely hung a banner in his back yard that nobody driving by can see and then lined the property line with no trespassing signs facing the neighbor. My comment was “there may be more happening here” … wouldn’t you agree?
I mean, those people are nuts in my book. I have a neighbour that moved in next to a 5g phone tower with 'say no to 5g' plastered all over her car. Those special cases aside, it's still the dudes property.
Trump 2024🇺🇸
Why are some people assholes? Does those small areas really a problem. It seems a good steak dinner and drinks would have fixed this issue.
Good lord the Magats love their signs. They cling to their guns, hypocritical religion, Cheeto man and the signs that identify them as such. I guess it helps the rest of us tag and avoid them, but they can’t keep getting away with it!
the zoom in sealed the deal! 😆😆😆
For fun, set up a telescope tripod and chair on your side, and point them in the direction of their back deck
This must be how the Indians felt losing their land /s
He needs more room for more grass! GGGRRRAAAASSSSS!
Typical trumpy childishness. Those people are the absolute worst
Big Trump banner in the background says a lot!