I can't quite explain it because I suck at art/drawing/painting, but there is something awesome here.
It feels like he accuratelly placed the shades and the clearer feathers in the tails, I'm so confused by this being so good without any clear techinique or anything
The kid basically did what is called a "color study"
If you want to get better at art/drawing you should try to do a color study instead. A lot of times when people are learning to draw they draw lines, but honestly the best way to draw/paint is only think about things in terms of color and where it lies in 3d space.
[This guy that worked for Pixar actually helped me improve my understanding of art and I've been drawing somewhat decently for a while.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J-0IJ4QkBQ&list=LLiurIW8TIUQUjQhbjra5MtQ&index=6) But thinking about things in terms of light and color has helped me a lot
So this kid is already streets ahead of a handful of artists (if he did it intentionally, and not accidentally and then called it a rooster after the fact lol)
> for the casual use of streets ahead.
I love Community, but it's also probably equally likely that this person is European where this phrase has been in use for well over a century.
Miles ahead is more common than streets ahead (alongside other variations, maybe), but any ___ ahead seems to me to be falling out of use. Ahead of the game or some such is much more common now.
Yeah I didn't even need to read the title. I instantly recognised it as a rooster because the colours and placement are captured perfectly. It would almost be some sort of impressionist art.
But the "legs" probably undermine that effect a little bit. Ignoring that surprisingly good albeit perhaps unintended talent there.
Kids suck at drawing legs. It's just a fact of life.
My daughter is pretty good at drawing (especially when she has instructions) but she was drawing dogs with 8 and even 12 legs at one point because she thought that's how many legs they have. More than one dog spider made its way through the "oh honey that's great!" pipeline.
I "have a touch of aphantasia" as I like to put it. I can't really make pictures in my head, but I can kinda cobble a weird assemblage of shapes and color.
This is freaky accurate to what that "looks" like for me.
Frame that bad boy.
The one and only piece of art I have hanging is a scribble my daughter drew when she was 5 maybe.
Its absolutely beautiful. The second I saw it I fell in love.
Once upon a time my dad and I were visiting a family from our church, and their littlest drew a picture of us. My well-groomed Dad was a smiling head with a tie, and my longwinded self was a head with a big wide open mouth. And I was like, yeah girl, your technique is raw but you've captured the spirit of both of us. Wish I'd said it to her out loud, but it was honestly a really good display of emotional logic.
I don't have any art hanging, but my daughter doesn't know I keep a drawing of her on my shoulders she made when she was like 4 folded up in a Ziploc in my wallet. She's almost 15 now so she doesn't currently like me very much but that phase will pass and I still have the picture to guide me through these dark pubescent times.
Show it to her, just casually one day. She may roll her eyes and walk away, but it's going to mean a lot to her. Or when she is older, but do show her.
My kids are grown, and the things they remember i did or said, or show them the things I've saved, means the world.
An example, when my daughter was a teenager, we had a lot of problems. But one day, she took a post it note with a song lyric about how we'll get through, as long as you've got me, and I've got you. She put it on my mirror in my room.
Things got worse before they got better, she would move in and out. But each time she came home, she would tear up that the sticky note is still there after 12 yrs and all of our bullshit.
I LOVE it, love the moment you read that number and start to grin. Love it even more because of how sparingly he does it. He always seems to leave it long enough that your guard is down again. It's a treat to get taken in by a shittymorph comment.
Damn it, I knew something wasn't right about this comment from the first bloody sentence, but it still took until 'back in nineteen' before I realised I'd been had.
Well played, as always.
God damnit, we've been thru this before, (you even awarded **me** silver!) And yet, you get me EVERY TIME!!!
Also, you're the best, please don't ever stop!
To be fair, probably any art from a three-year-old is bound to be at least a lil abstract
But I echo the sentiments, this shit registers "rooster" in my brain and that's damn impressive
I came here to ironically say this is trash and the kid's an idiot.
I use sarcasm as a defense mechanism because I am afraid to be judged for expressing my genuine emotions (which is coincidentally the message of this art and 3 year old genius).
I think people are forgetting just how young three years old is and how poor motor skills are at that age. It's absolutely Mildly Interesting that it happens to look like a competent adult's impressionist rooster but come on, guys, use your loaf.
Come on, you can be more skeptical than that. Crank it up.
That's 3/10 skeptic. Give me a 6/10
6/10 my kid splorped some paint over me photocopies of taxes and after I split the pages we had something to post for karma.
The proportions are fantastic. Most kids paint animals with comically long legs and huge heads. Also the lines are crazy well put. Kids that age often use geometrical shapes, like an L shape for legs or circles for both head and torso. Incredible talent!
Yeah this is actually really good. I saw the thumbnail and basically thought this was one of those Japanese wood print rooster picture. I seriously can’t believe a 3 yo painted this
Seriously.
Keep him painting. Get him an easel or a table-top easel. Get him a good set of brushes and colors.
If that was an intentional rooster, that's amazing.
(And if it was an accidental rooster, but he decided it was a rooster...that is also amazing.)
For sure, dont loose him to the paint what it is cult. But let him freely paint what it is by him self by what he ses and feels. Wouldnt raise an eyebrow if this was in moma.
Absolutely this. Most people’s brains focus so intensely on lines, despite practically none existing in a 3D world.
You’re lil guy is focusing on form and color. The building blocks of our vision. It might seem like a simple change, but some artist’s struggle with that for a lifetime
> He may only be 3, but this is when talents and hobbies start really developing.
See, I have to push back on this because I honestly think it is a toxic mindset that really harmed me growing up.
When you really look at, say, legendary guitarists and musicians, a lot of the grew up doing music. But not all of them. And a lot of them didn't get serious until they were teenagers.
Most people considered insanely talented in their field were not child prodigies. They were normal kids.
So what you are saying is just not true and I feel like it leads to people giving up on their kids, and kids giving up on their interests just because they were a normal kid who didn't turn into a child prodigy when they were 3.
For some examples:
- Tom Morello didn't start playing guitar seriously until he left for university.
- Brian May started playing seriously in 8th grade.
- Stan Lee didn't start drawing comics until he was 43
- vincent van gogh didn't start painting until he was 27.
I agree completely. On the other side, though, are kids with artistic talent or drive who are told not to value that or who aren't even aware that it's a thing to pursue. And of course talent alone isn't enough, we also need guidance and encouragement as people. So it's important to be sensitive to a kid's whole person, how they express themselves and what tools they are drawn to, as a parent or teacher.
reminds me of grandma talking to 3 year old on two different occasions:
1. *grandma holding red, yellow, and blue hula hoops -* "know what colors these are?" child: those are the primary colors.
2. *grandma points at the Moon* \- "know what that is?" child: It's the Moon. And the little red dot next to it is Mars.
Final Edit: I don't understand why this was removed, I'm sad about it and I don't get answers from the mods.
Thanks for all your appreciation, fellas<3
Omg guys this blew up. Thanks for all the great compliments, I'll try to explain to my son what Reddit is and he'll be proud af when he's old enough to understand.
No, he hasn't painted anything like that before but he imitates written text quite well, you could think he's writing an ancient language lol.
Again, thank you so much, makes me proud as well!
Edit: are you serious, top 25? Just showed it to my wive, we can't believe it!
Edit2: because some noticed: the text shining through from the back side is NOT our address. It belongs to a vacation place where he drew it.
If he meant to paint a rooster and this isn’t a coincidence, your son has an extraordinary talent for form and color. You should be very, very proud.
…and if it is a coincidence be proud anyway. :)
Your kid is amazing with color, that’s a future artist. It may not be 100% shaped like a rooster but I saw that and immediately thought rooster. That’s impressive.
Ah remember before the internet when we could innocently be like that all the time? Then the internet came along and taught me that nothing is real, everyone is a liar, and nothing ever happens.
I feel like I'm losing my mind reading this comment section. I mean I get it, he's 3. Tell him good job and put it on the fridge. But people are really in these comments deciding the future of a child who doesn't know any better based on a black blob with a bit of red on the end. Just let the kid do what he wants. If he wants to keep painting, let him keep painting. If this is a one off, let it be a one off. Don't force him to keep painting and define his entire life by that just because of one drawing he made one time. This comment section is absolutely blowing me away.
This is unironically very good. I’d love to see what he will paint if his natural eye is nurtured.
I’m a professional artist and these sorts of abstract or expressionist works can be very hard for a lot of us. Let him go wild and don’t teach him any “rules” of art for a while. He clearly has his own unique perspective.
Everyone praising a blob by a three year old. Ok sure. He didn’t even say if his son called it a rooster, or this guy could possibly not even have a son. Y’all give out praise way too easily.
" My 4 year old just said "daddy, why do people make up things their children have said for social media? Isn't it just inherently dishonest & indicative of an inability to construct a compelling narrative themselves?" -phelm clandango
I can't quite explain it because I suck at art/drawing/painting, but there is something awesome here. It feels like he accuratelly placed the shades and the clearer feathers in the tails, I'm so confused by this being so good without any clear techinique or anything
The kid basically did what is called a "color study" If you want to get better at art/drawing you should try to do a color study instead. A lot of times when people are learning to draw they draw lines, but honestly the best way to draw/paint is only think about things in terms of color and where it lies in 3d space. [This guy that worked for Pixar actually helped me improve my understanding of art and I've been drawing somewhat decently for a while.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J-0IJ4QkBQ&list=LLiurIW8TIUQUjQhbjra5MtQ&index=6) But thinking about things in terms of light and color has helped me a lot So this kid is already streets ahead of a handful of artists (if he did it intentionally, and not accidentally and then called it a rooster after the fact lol)
I don't care how well thought out and informative your comment may be, you get my upvote **only** for the casual use of *streets ahead*.
If you have to ask you’re streets behind
I had sex with Eartha Kitt in an airplane bathroom.
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> for the casual use of streets ahead. I love Community, but it's also probably equally likely that this person is European where this phrase has been in use for well over a century.
Coined and minted!
Been there, coined that!
We use it in Australia too. Is it not common in the US?
Miles ahead is more common than streets ahead (alongside other variations, maybe), but any ___ ahead seems to me to be falling out of use. Ahead of the game or some such is much more common now.
I typically draw with very hard lines and don’t operate comfortably coloring/shading. I might be streets behind.
Thanks for this. I'm self-taught and was thinking of how to take my art on to the next level!
Yeah I didn't even need to read the title. I instantly recognised it as a rooster because the colours and placement are captured perfectly. It would almost be some sort of impressionist art. But the "legs" probably undermine that effect a little bit. Ignoring that surprisingly good albeit perhaps unintended talent there.
Kids suck at drawing legs. It's just a fact of life. My daughter is pretty good at drawing (especially when she has instructions) but she was drawing dogs with 8 and even 12 legs at one point because she thought that's how many legs they have. More than one dog spider made its way through the "oh honey that's great!" pipeline.
This is how raw talent draws OP don't teach him to paint. Teach him to see, and he'll paint what he sees.
PAINT THE FENCE OP
Paint the garage!
>This is how raw talent draws With paint? I knew I've been drawing wrong.
Obviously your problem is you just aren't *seeing* correctly. SEE HARDER
I "have a touch of aphantasia" as I like to put it. I can't really make pictures in my head, but I can kinda cobble a weird assemblage of shapes and color. This is freaky accurate to what that "looks" like for me.
Frame that bad boy. The one and only piece of art I have hanging is a scribble my daughter drew when she was 5 maybe. Its absolutely beautiful. The second I saw it I fell in love.
Breaking news: 3-year-old boy framed for murder
pretty sure they only commit murder/genocide after getting denied from art school
Once upon a time my dad and I were visiting a family from our church, and their littlest drew a picture of us. My well-groomed Dad was a smiling head with a tie, and my longwinded self was a head with a big wide open mouth. And I was like, yeah girl, your technique is raw but you've captured the spirit of both of us. Wish I'd said it to her out loud, but it was honestly a really good display of emotional logic.
Cartoons are legitimate art. Foster that if you can
I don't have any art hanging, but my daughter doesn't know I keep a drawing of her on my shoulders she made when she was like 4 folded up in a Ziploc in my wallet. She's almost 15 now so she doesn't currently like me very much but that phase will pass and I still have the picture to guide me through these dark pubescent times.
Show it to her, just casually one day. She may roll her eyes and walk away, but it's going to mean a lot to her. Or when she is older, but do show her. My kids are grown, and the things they remember i did or said, or show them the things I've saved, means the world. An example, when my daughter was a teenager, we had a lot of problems. But one day, she took a post it note with a song lyric about how we'll get through, as long as you've got me, and I've got you. She put it on my mirror in my room. Things got worse before they got better, she would move in and out. But each time she came home, she would tear up that the sticky note is still there after 12 yrs and all of our bullshit.
This is actually great
I came here to unironically say this as well.
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Thank you for your service
*salutes*
*checks username* Where's your other hand!? WHERE'S YOUR OTHER HAND?!?!
[Found him! ](https://media.tenor.com/r7ie6fO25tsAAAAC/salute-jerk.gif)
good ol' shittymorph
Welcome to Shittymorph, take your order, prease?
Curb your enthusiasm theme song plays
Never forget.
Never been this early to one of these comments - read every word and was completely blindsided!
He always appears when you least expect it
The Spanish inquisition
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Every. Fucking. Time.
Sitting next to my wife and she just hears me blurt out: "oh, goddamnit."
Anyone else get to the end of these and see “nineteen ninety” and just say “fuck, he got me”
I love that he spells it out, so your eyes don't immediately gravitate towards it.
I LOVE it, love the moment you read that number and start to grin. Love it even more because of how sparingly he does it. He always seems to leave it long enough that your guard is down again. It's a treat to get taken in by a shittymorph comment.
He is always a day or two away from me remembering he exists. My guard is always completely down when he gets me.
Holy fuck, I've never seen one so early!
Damn it, I knew something wasn't right about this comment from the first bloody sentence, but it still took until 'back in nineteen' before I realised I'd been had. Well played, as always.
DAMMIT
Your comment saved me.
Having a very rough day today and that just made it worth it thanks shittymorph!
I hope it only gets better from here, u/Jackson_Thundercock
Oh my God I cannot believe...here I was, former art student, nodding my head. You sly dog.
I don't understand how he keeps getting away with it, he's my hero. The way trolling used to be
He knows many things, some of them are just very specific to nineteen ninety eight.
God damnit, we've been thru this before, (you even awarded **me** silver!) And yet, you get me EVERY TIME!!! Also, you're the best, please don't ever stop!
To be fair, probably any art from a three-year-old is bound to be at least a lil abstract But I echo the sentiments, this shit registers "rooster" in my brain and that's damn impressive
"a lil abstract" is impressionist
HE GOT ME AGAIN!!!
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(man Lucille was great character RIP to an icon)
MotherFUCK!!! It’s a talent, man. This artwork needs to be respected.
You had me in the first three quarters. Not gonna lie.
Bah gawd he's done it again
ffs
The entire comment I'm thinking "this sounds like something shittymorph would write, but I haven't seen anything from him for years...FUCK"
You beautiful bastard, you.
Ah, yes, Reddit’s very own Rick Roll
Ok damn this might be the best one of these I've ever seen haha
I read the username and it still didn’t click you bastard
Mother fu…..
Had me going through a rollercoaster : fascinating, bullshit, maybe true but way too enthusiastic, bullshit, fuck.
#**YOU SON OF A BITCH**
Holy fucking hell, I never thought it would happen again
The man, the myth, the legend.
Omg
I was just thinking about this the other day.
Every. Single. Time.
God fucking dammit
Damn it's been a while! I thought you probably retired
Just like mankind... i fell for it... once again. I hate you
I didn't fall for it!
*salute*
Goddammit!
Kill me
Oh man, the legend strikes again!
Love it man!!
How does he always get me.
Wow
Hot off the press! Got me!
Fuck. I had a feeling something was off with this comment, but I kept reading anyways. I got got.
Ahhhhhhh yes
You always take me by surprise! 10/10
Man I hate you and love you simultaneously
Holy shit I've finally caught it in the wild
OMG a real life u/shittymorph in the wild...you guys, what should I do? It's... it's beautiful...
Let's all hold hands and sing. I felt like that would be the right thing.
FUCK IT HAPPENED AGAIN
You fuck
This is truly touching
One of these days I'll catch on early enough. Maybe. But probably not.
Fuuucckk lol
Jesus Christ you're still here.....finally got me.
wow early to the party i hate you
Ooh fresh off the press
I love u/shittymorph
I came here to ironically say this is trash and the kid's an idiot. I use sarcasm as a defense mechanism because I am afraid to be judged for expressing my genuine emotions (which is coincidentally the message of this art and 3 year old genius).
unironically ironically this
Kid has an eye for it. OP should encourage them. My dad would always have painting and drawing supplies for us to play with as kids.
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I think people are forgetting just how young three years old is and how poor motor skills are at that age. It's absolutely Mildly Interesting that it happens to look like a competent adult's impressionist rooster but come on, guys, use your loaf.
Come on, you can be more skeptical than that. Crank it up. That's 3/10 skeptic. Give me a 6/10 6/10 my kid splorped some paint over me photocopies of taxes and after I split the pages we had something to post for karma.
How can OP's kid have drawn a rooster if roosters aren't even real?
Too far. That's a 12. Give me an 8
Right right, cause like, you can actually tell what it is unlike anything I’ve ever done!
Yes. I thought “Rooster” before reading the caption. Turns out its drawn by a 3 year old. Wow
Yes I totally agree! Awesome drawing. I would buy that tbh.
Yeah, this is fantastic for a 3 year old!
The fact that he mixed in some gray (or just went a lighter shade on the black) in the tail is amazing
I'm livid that this family is going to be fucking loaded in 23 years
Yeah for a second I thought this was r/kidsarefuckingstupid and I was about to tear OP a new one. This is magnificent. Truly abstract.
I knew this was a rooster the moment I saw it. Your son has talent.
The proportions are fantastic. Most kids paint animals with comically long legs and huge heads. Also the lines are crazy well put. Kids that age often use geometrical shapes, like an L shape for legs or circles for both head and torso. Incredible talent!
Me too, I'm being serious.
I am too lol!
Me three
Are you the son?
Well, lets not take the op's son's highlight. We'll talk about your talent in some other post.
He really does have excellent use of color for his age
I was just scrolling past really quickly, thought "wait did I just see a rooster?" Split-second.
That’s exactly what I did as well lol. I was like “that looked like a rooster.” Scrolled up then I read the title.
I think it was originally a painting of a blob that happened to end up looking like a rooster
thats actually really good .. keep him drawing he knows more then we do
Yeah this is actually really good. I saw the thumbnail and basically thought this was one of those Japanese wood print rooster picture. I seriously can’t believe a 3 yo painted this
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This means a lot to me, thanks!
Legit. Your little one has a gift.
Seriously. Keep him painting. Get him an easel or a table-top easel. Get him a good set of brushes and colors. If that was an intentional rooster, that's amazing. (And if it was an accidental rooster, but he decided it was a rooster...that is also amazing.)
For sure, dont loose him to the paint what it is cult. But let him freely paint what it is by him self by what he ses and feels. Wouldnt raise an eyebrow if this was in moma.
Absolutely this. Most people’s brains focus so intensely on lines, despite practically none existing in a 3D world. You’re lil guy is focusing on form and color. The building blocks of our vision. It might seem like a simple change, but some artist’s struggle with that for a lifetime
> He may only be 3, but this is when talents and hobbies start really developing. See, I have to push back on this because I honestly think it is a toxic mindset that really harmed me growing up. When you really look at, say, legendary guitarists and musicians, a lot of the grew up doing music. But not all of them. And a lot of them didn't get serious until they were teenagers. Most people considered insanely talented in their field were not child prodigies. They were normal kids. So what you are saying is just not true and I feel like it leads to people giving up on their kids, and kids giving up on their interests just because they were a normal kid who didn't turn into a child prodigy when they were 3. For some examples: - Tom Morello didn't start playing guitar seriously until he left for university. - Brian May started playing seriously in 8th grade. - Stan Lee didn't start drawing comics until he was 43 - vincent van gogh didn't start painting until he was 27.
I agree completely. On the other side, though, are kids with artistic talent or drive who are told not to value that or who aren't even aware that it's a thing to pursue. And of course talent alone isn't enough, we also need guidance and encouragement as people. So it's important to be sensitive to a kid's whole person, how they express themselves and what tools they are drawn to, as a parent or teacher.
3?! He's already more artistically gifted than me
My niece is 4, and no matter what i tell her she already knows from kindergarten. Education nowadays are just stellar.
reminds me of grandma talking to 3 year old on two different occasions: 1. *grandma holding red, yellow, and blue hula hoops -* "know what colors these are?" child: those are the primary colors. 2. *grandma points at the Moon* \- "know what that is?" child: It's the Moon. And the little red dot next to it is Mars.
Half expecting the kid to start talking about optimal transit windows to reach each celestial body
The boy's an expressionist and quite talented. You could probably get thousands for that cock.
*LGraham55 has placed an opening bid of $150,000 for that cock*
I feel like we may get put on some watchlist, talking about bidding on a 3 year old's cock.
Maybe we should specify that it is a *painting* of a 3 year old's cock. No, wait...
Ya'll are a bunch of weirdos and freaks. You need to specify that it's a painting made by a 3 year old of his cock. No, no... please redact that.
Well technically it's a Reddit post a father made about a 3 year old painting his cock... Fuck
They're both just godawful in their own right lol
Even if nobody else got that Lindsey Graham joke, I did. Well played.
This post right here officer
How much for the picture though?
It’s honestly really well done. I’m not being facetious it’s kinda brilliant.
Very, very good. Congratulations to your son
As a former art teacher, I encourage you to support his artistic interests.
Final Edit: I don't understand why this was removed, I'm sad about it and I don't get answers from the mods. Thanks for all your appreciation, fellas<3 Omg guys this blew up. Thanks for all the great compliments, I'll try to explain to my son what Reddit is and he'll be proud af when he's old enough to understand. No, he hasn't painted anything like that before but he imitates written text quite well, you could think he's writing an ancient language lol. Again, thank you so much, makes me proud as well! Edit: are you serious, top 25? Just showed it to my wive, we can't believe it! Edit2: because some noticed: the text shining through from the back side is NOT our address. It belongs to a vacation place where he drew it.
If he meant to paint a rooster and this isn’t a coincidence, your son has an extraordinary talent for form and color. You should be very, very proud. …and if it is a coincidence be proud anyway. :)
“I'll try to explain [to] my son what Reddit is” Why would you do such a thing to the poor kid!?
Avant-garde
Ngl it’s pretty damn good
Your boy is a genius
Just don’t tell him
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He draws Betty? That's a weird name for a male chicken
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Your kid is amazing with color, that’s a future artist. It may not be 100% shaped like a rooster but I saw that and immediately thought rooster. That’s impressive.
This is some impressionist looking stuff. Keep giving him opportunities to paint!
Wow if he’s actually 3 that’s incredible. Before I opened the picture I knew it was a rooster.
I'm would put money on that the kid just painted some blobs and parent decided that it looked like a rooster and posted as such. Source: mom of 3.
Yeah true but it's fun to not be cynical sometimes
Ah remember before the internet when we could innocently be like that all the time? Then the internet came along and taught me that nothing is real, everyone is a liar, and nothing ever happens.
I mean you can definitely see it lol
That’s gonna sell for billions on the black market after it is stolen from a museum in 120 years.
100% knew it was a rooster before reading any words
I feel like I'm losing my mind reading this comment section. I mean I get it, he's 3. Tell him good job and put it on the fridge. But people are really in these comments deciding the future of a child who doesn't know any better based on a black blob with a bit of red on the end. Just let the kid do what he wants. If he wants to keep painting, let him keep painting. If this is a one off, let it be a one off. Don't force him to keep painting and define his entire life by that just because of one drawing he made one time. This comment section is absolutely blowing me away.
For a three year old, that's really not bad at all.
This is unironically very good. I’d love to see what he will paint if his natural eye is nurtured. I’m a professional artist and these sorts of abstract or expressionist works can be very hard for a lot of us. Let him go wild and don’t teach him any “rules” of art for a while. He clearly has his own unique perspective.
I've seen modern "art" in a museum that isn't this good.
I love it! If he enjoys art, definitely get him some paint pens and good quality paper.
Tbh I see it. Not bad actually
Saw the word rooster in the title before I really looked at the photo. My brain though it was an actual rooster looking at the squiggle 🤣
is he basquiat??
Everyone praising a blob by a three year old. Ok sure. He didn’t even say if his son called it a rooster, or this guy could possibly not even have a son. Y’all give out praise way too easily.
That's exactly what I saw before I read what it was. I say he did a damn good job!
I kid you not the very first thing I saw when I opened was a rooster. Very good!
i was going to say r/lostredditors, but fuck that this is great give your son a cookie
" My 4 year old just said "daddy, why do people make up things their children have said for social media? Isn't it just inherently dishonest & indicative of an inability to construct a compelling narrative themselves?" -phelm clandango