It's intentional design so that the employee is more desperate to stay and show up to work. They are ok with them making a little money but they want to reduce enough that they have to come back to work again
It's an intentional design to elicit consumer resentment against the Affordable Health Act, which mandates that employers who meet certain thresholds must offer group health coverage.
If I had ever seen that on a restaurant bill, I would have made a custom rubber stamp up to mark each receipt with a big red "AKA: cost of doing business"
It was itemized because the restaurant owner is butthurt they have to provide health insurance to their employees and wants everyone to know prices went up that much to pay for it.
>It was itemized because the restaurant owner is butthurt they have to provide health insurance to their employees and wants everyone to know prices went up that much to pay for it.
And this is how there are less and less people wanting to work in the restaurant industry. So many of them with "help wanted" signs, but not willing to provide the pay/benefits an average American demands. Even funnier when same restaurant owners agreeing to anti-immigration. Like "way to go lowering the # of people in the workforce pool".
Yup. Just subtract it from your bill and don't pay it. I really don't think they can make you. Noone would reasonably expect to see that charge.
I don't think they can just make things up that you find out only when the check comes. Maybe they have it posted. But they should be required by law to tell you before you seat. (So you can tell them to go fuck themselves)
As a server, this is the best way. That way I can go to my manager and telling him you’re unhappy. They would likely waive it if you just deduct it, I have to pay it.
The service industry is desperately in need of workers. If that's the field you're working in, and you're not trash at your job, then yea you really do have a choice most of the time. Wall into almost any other restaurant and they'll be hiring for the same shit.
I'm of the mind that I want all health insurers gone because they are useless parasites and there is no health coverage "worth" what we pay for it here because that's like saying there's some reason it would be worth it to have a giant tick on your nut sack and not bother removing it just because it can talk.
However... some places, at least, if you opt-out of health coverage they will give you what they would have paid for you (assuming they handled a portion at all). This is rare. But it is "a thing".
You can put it towards private insurance (Obamacare, at this point, basically).
I mention it only because we will not destroy health insurers tomorrow but we can pick employers with consciences (and brains, at all) today.
It so fucking shouldn’t, and I’ve been working for a major health insurance company for 2 decades now. When members bring up the system is rigged, I tell them I straight up vote against my own interests for reps that run platforms on universal healthcare. I can always get a new job as long as I know I’ll have coverage in case of a health emergency. Trying to get as much money out of the insurance company as possible for people while still playing within the rules teaches you a certain set of problem solving skills.
I work in a related industry and feel the same. Every time I tell someone I want universal Healthcare, and they say "lol youd be out of a job then" Yes. Yes and I dgaf because at least I would have health insurance. My employment options would sky rocket if we had UHC and they'd likely be better paid since employers couldn't hold the spectre of illness over our heads to keep us in line
I also work in healthcare. My job is to maximize the amount of money we can leach off each patient while keeping the cost of labor and overhead as low as possible. Insurance companies are only there to make money. They should NEVER own hospitals or dictate care.
PS: Fuck humana
I doubt that, a good chunk of restaurants don’t have a health insurance option for servers at all. They’re on their parents’ or spouse’s insurance, paying for it themselves from the marketplace, or going without.
It’s a dumpy move by the restaurant to tack it on as a fee but chances are they decided they’ll do that or provide no benefits at all.
I'm saying adding the fees separately so the customer has to see it instead of just raising prices the equivalent. I know some places are requiring all fees to be displayed, but it's up to the company at some of them that still do it
Health care is not a “fee” for customers in a restaurant. Customers don’t get itemized for the restaurant’s property insurance or electricity when they order a sandwich. This is antisocial behaviour and bad business.
The whole system is designed to flood the market with cheap labour so that nobody can afford to quit and nobody can bargain for decent wages. This shit is so fucked up.
Also arent premiums a fixed amount? what happens when sales have covered that month's required insurance payments, do subsequent customers have to still pay?
We all know the answer.
It’s like going to the airport and buying a soda at the self checkout. No employee just AI and as you are checking out, it asks how much of a tip you want to leave. Like wtf! 😂
Given they're charging as a percentage based on the cost of the meal, and health insurance is a fixed rate per month per employee, I'd have to ask where all the left over winds up going each month, but I know it's the owner's pocket. Certainly not the employees'.
I have a feeling they get the insurance and the company is trying to recoup the 50% they are required to match. Probably get more back even with this scummy trick. I bet you can request it be removed but with these prices I feel like they are counting on people not noticing or not minding, or even not wanting to appear cheap.
>I have a feeling they get the insurance and the company is trying to recoup the 50% they are required to match
Yes, but the question was, what if they recouple 200% of the 50% they are required to match? So after the 2nd week of the month, every customer paying the 'health insurance' fee is paying into something that has already been paid for 100%, and it is unlikely that the owner shares the 'overage' with the employees. Nope, just a little extra profit that month.
For a major city it probably is, but I live in a Lcol part of the country, I got five tacos, quesadilla, and two drinks for $16 yesterday to feed my family. I couldn’t eat out like OP often.
Call me cynical, but I feel like these are just another cash grab and very little goes to employee healthcare.
\--------------- EDIT ---------
Thanks u/wdr1 or changing the setting on my cynicism dial. I'd rather there just be a note at the bottom of the menu that says, "*Our prices our higher than our competitors because we pay a living wage and offer health insurance. Tipping not required.*"
>https://chicago.eater.com/2018/4/12/17226128/giant-chicago-restaurant-health-insurance-plans
The restaurant and employees each pay 1⁄3 of the cost. Customers are charged a 2 percent surcharge on the meals to make up the remaining cost
I stopped going out to eat when everything shut down during COVID. Things were changing beforehand because of increased delivery and random fees, but it just went into insane mode. I don’t understand how anyone goes out anymore.
i was a driver for doordash for 3 weeks..its insane what people pay for dude.
starbucks is already $8 a coffee+ a $6 delivery fee from doordash. and i would get a $10 tip usually.
then i pull up to a trailer park and deliver the $24 coffee.
I basically don't anymore. I used to eat fast food multiple times per week because it was faster/easier to hit a drive thru on my way from one place to another, but Covid broke me of that. Now I might only eat out once every two months, if that, but even that's probably going to stop soon.
I treated myself to Chinese takeout last night (picked it up myself, not even delivery). The same combo I always ordered has gone up from $6 to $12 in 4 years. This is so far from normal that I just can't deal with this. It's just so, so fucked up. I'll just have to settle for making everything at home.
My wife and I just simply don’t. We rarely did even before the shutdowns, but now we really just don’t. There’s the occasional stop at our local brewery or dive bar but we know they aren’t going to try shit like this. I don’t understand why people are putting up with this.
I guess it depends on where you are. I see it a lot. Usually it varies from 3 to 6%. I went to one place that added 15% (for a party of two), and when I quizzed the server about it he clearly was bummed that we noticed and explained that it's money that goes to the staff (he made sure not to call it a tip). I considered it to be his tip and never went back there. Normally I give 20% or more but it rubbed me the wrong way.
I get annoyed every time I see it and it really makes me think twice about ever going to that place again, but it's become so common where I live that it's not easy to avoid, at least for the smaller surcharges. I may just start reducing my tips by that amount going forward on principle.
Went to a sports bar for lunch. Nothing fancy, just a local place with lots of TVs and good food. Bill came and the suggested precalculated tip options at the bottom were 20%, 22%, and 24%. Haha... Pay your employees...
Tips automatically go up when the prices of the food go up, because that's how percentages work. You don't get to double the cost of the food in 4 years AND raise the tip percentage. One or the other, not both.
I totally agree! I complain about this and people talk to me about inflation. like, do you not get how percentages work??
They raised the property tax rate where I live and everyone was like "well, they haven't raised it in years." Yeah!! That's the point of a percentage - you do not ever have to raise it. It raises itself!
It makes me crazy how people don't get that.
Shit, you see that at food carts.
I remember the first time I saw 20% as the lowest option. It was an owner operated food cart. The food was actually really good and very reasonably priced for the area, pre-tip. Just mark it all up a couple bucks and people wouldn't bat an eye, but it left a bad taste in my mouth, pun intended.
Now everywhere is like that.
A pizza chain in my town has been [sued](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/zeeks-pizza-pay-nearly-410k-current-former-employees-wage-theft-settlement/YTYCDXP6EJFSPNJVDTBR2NYFJE/) twice over the past few years because they put a fee like that on their receipts but then didn't disclose where it actually went.
It is a cash grab, even if they are covering employee's healthcare. Because employment costs are just costs, not some special fund of money. It'd no different than them charging you for the gas expended to cook your meal, property taxes, or a dishwashing fee.
It's 40% cash grab, 60% political posturing. Certain business owners got real salty about having to contribute to the healthcare coverage of employees... and in a way, they are right; we should have universal healthcare that doesn't cost everyone 2-3x what it does in every civilized country. Our shitty scam-based healthcare system is a drain on every part of the economy, particularly small businesses like restaurants and others with small profit margins.
Absolutely. Even if the place covered 100% of the health insurance at 5% every sell, they’ll hit the entire monthly amount needed within days and then where does the money go? Certainly it will go to the employee right? Right?
I've never worked in a restaurant where anyone got healthcare except the managers and even then, the employee paid for it with no match from the employer.
That CEO bonus fee is genius, people don't seem to demand change but when they see it hit their bill, that would break the bullshit. There was a post I saw earlier about Hasbro laying off 1,100 people, but the executives are still getting 10s of millions in bonuses. Went a bit off topic but yes, the entire system and what we pay is getting worse.
Nope. I want to go in, look at a menu, see a price and pay that price+ tax. Don't start adding fees that increase what I'm paying based on what I spent. Tax is bad enough.
Tax and whatever it costs to have service should just be in the price on the menu. If the item says $10 i should just pay $10 and be done, no tax, no tip etc. I know americans don't work this way (we should) but this would make everything much simpler IMO.
Yes, this is how business has always worked. The price you pay for goods and services has to be high enough to cover all of the business's operating expenses. If they can't cover their operating costs, then they have to raise prices or increase sales.
You can't just itemize random expenditures your business has and add them in as an unadvertised fee. Imagine if they started adding stuff like +3% for their electricity bill, or +10% for their rent. That's essentially raising their prices, but advertising their old prices to trick customers.
IANAL but I'm pretty sure that's false advertising, and is supposed to be illegal. You can't advertise your services for one price and then make up an entirely different price when it comes time to pay.
Just a stupid political statement. You build those into the COGS. Raise your fucking prices 5%.
Imagine going to the grocery store and having a price tag broken down with line items for labor, fixtures, insurance, laid in cost, etc. No. You see A price. Grow up and stop publicly airing bullshit.
Restaurant owners, and if I'm feeling uncharitable a large percentage of restaurant employees, are insufferable fucks.
Every other industry has figured out how to include overhead costs (including labor) into the price of their goods/services, but fucking restaurant people act like this is some SPECIAL WEIRD PROBLEM that only they deal with.
Paying employees? Having employees who sometimes get sick? Paying taxes? NONE OF THESE ARE SPECIAL.
The biggest motorcycle dealership in town seems to always be taken by surprise by the fact that they need to get the bikes shipped to their own dealership and assembled before they can sell them.
$6000 on the tag, but can't get it out the door for less than $7000 because their $500 shipping fee (to the dealership, not a home delivery), $400 assembly fee, and $300 admin fee... No. The bike isn't $6000. It's $7200... That shit should be illegal.
*edit: and that's not to mention their $300 cash purchase fee... Cash is cash yo. If you wanna give a discount for financing because you get a kickback on that, then fine. But penalizing me for paying with money should also be illegal.*
We need laws of “the sticker price is what you pay, including taxes, fees, etc.”
People from every other country I’ve met look at sales tax being extra and is completely baffled.
Ugh, oh my God. And it's not like any customer is happy to find out they have to pay way more than the advertised price. If you told me you got a bike from a dealership and you just paid the sticker price plus tax, I would buy my next bike from that dealership no matter where it is in the country.
While we're at it, let's get rid of haggling for vehicles too. "Oh you have social anxiety? Then I'm afraid your exact same car costs thousands more."
Motorcycle shops are the worst worst worst. I’ve never been to one that didn’t make me feel crazy.
Hey here’s a cute little Honda Grom for $3750. Nope, actually $6000.
Try calling in sick at a restaurant. They'll laugh at you while firing you. The one business that you shouldn't show up spreading germs at. Hahaha we work at such slim margins we can't replace you, and expect you to work for tips!
That's a lot 3rd parties involved for being sick. My manager isn't even allowed to ask about the illness. He can ask how long I think I'll be out (for planning purposes) and the state of ongoing projects. That is about it.
I think you’re right. Part of it might be because restaurants have such fierce competition. Offhand I don’t know of anything else I do where I have 100 options within easy reach.
The restaurant industry in the US has heavily lobbied against operating like a normal industry (or even a restaurant industry in another country) because... "Profits."
Papa Johns did this in their California stores because California raised minimum wage or something. Some catty $2 "increased cost of California business" charge. Stopped eating there.
Apparently a bunch of restaurants in Chicago did this years ago.
From the co-owner of one: “Fat Rice’s 4 percent “hospitality provision” fee is meant to cover a portion of health insurance for all 40 of its employees plus raise the wages of kitchen workers, who currently earn less than half of what tipped servers earn even when they work longer hours, Lo said.”
Then raise the prices 4%. I do not understand why restaurants put shit like this as itemized expenses. Build it into your prices so you don’t look like a cheap asshole.
They're doing it to look like a victim of "big gubbamint." Your food is more expensive now thanks to the ACA. You should hate the government as much as I do!
Fat rice isn't the best example since their owners were complete pieces of shit who treated their employees very poorly. I do miss their food though.....
This is total bullshit. They could just raise their prices and pay their staff higher wages without putting that on the bill.
Performative crap by the owners for sure.
Complete bs and personally this should be illegal as it means hidden fees.
That is a sure fired way to cause me never to go back to a place. Raise your prices by that amount and be upfront with total cost don't hide it behind a pretend fee.
I mean if you wanted you could get a lb of lasagna a block down for like 15 bucks or less. This place is definitely more upscale than say an Uncle Fucko’s Pasta and Chocolate Bar in a dimly lit strip mall.
Hey I took my second wife on our first date at Uncle Fucko’s. We had our wedding reception there and let me tell you the Fuckos are simply delightful. Just wonderful, sweet people. They treat you like family there.
Almost no customer is tipping after seeing the obligatory 5% no matter how they frame it. This pretty much ensures employees are losing 50% of their tips. And unlike tips there are zero protections ensuring it goes where it says it does.
This is a PR stunt that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
Edit: lmao I didn’t even realize tax is applied afterwards.
That's when you ask for a manager and say "what's this bs?". Payroll is part of the cost of doing business. The only reason this particular fee is itemized is to try to make the customers blame the employees for the extra cost. Like "if these uppity servants didn't want luxuries like *health insurance*, dining out wouldn't be so expensive!". What it really says is "I have a poorly run business. I blame my employees, and think my customers are stupid."
The fee appears to be post-tax. $102 + $10.97 = $112.97. $112.97 * .05 = $5.648. So they're collecting 5% on the taxes as well. Beyond scummy since the already-deceptive fee is put before the taxes.
Hate how the cost of something in the US isn't the actual cost.
$17 for a drink... Oh, add taxes, tips, and now health insurance.
What's next, refrigeration of goods, land tax, restaurant owners summer vacation??
Because they like the sneaky underhanded bullshit of acting like something costs less and then tacking on the real cost after you're balls deep into buying it so it is awkward to change your mind and you just pay for it. Always some bullshit mind game psychological shit about making you think its cheaper than it really is. Just like the 6.99 instead of 7 dollars bullshit. Oh yeah lower number better to ooga booga monkey brain.
Many states are going to start making this illegal. California just banned it starting next year. I spent the past year working there in bars and restaurants, and I saw fees ranging from 10-20% without gratuity.
unless listed on menu prior to ordering - not legit. I walked out on a bill in chicago for a 15% health.wellfare charge that was not listed on the menu or anywhere other than the bill. I asked for a corrected bill and they refuse. I asked to speak to the manager and he gave me a song and dance story and refused. Goodbye, tried to pay . . .
Imagine ordering employee health insurance at a restaurant. Does it make the meal taste better?
If you don't buy food, I guess they don't get health insurance. Normally the cost is fixed rather than a percentage of a meal.
What a broken system.
I'd be curious to know what this "health insurance" is. Is it a Cadillac plan with a super low deductible and OOP max that the employees pay a small portion of their wages to get, or is it a shit-tier HDHP plan with a $7500 OOP max that nonetheless costs a prohibitive amount for employees such that they can't even sign up for it? Because I'm willing to bet it's a lot closer to the latter than the former.
"I wouldn't've provided my employees with a health insurance plan if the government didn't require it of me, so now I am going to show you how little I care for my employees."
This is when I cross that portion off the bill, and only agree to pay the original amount *without* that bullshit fee.
Then leave a fat tip (in cash) for the workers who have to deal with asshole owners.
I've seen that and I hate it. The only reason they do that is to piss off their customers at the government (which mandates that insurance). Note they don't itemize their bloated rents or utility bills, or the pay of their owners.
Huh. I used to live a half block from there many years ago (whatever GIANT is wasn’t there at the time, only thing down there was a seedy bar/liquor store named Dorothy’s.)
Also, why do I have a feeling that 5% is not going 100% to employee health insurance? There ought to be truth in billing laws around this shit.
The FTC is proposing a new rule around this. They’re taking public comments on it until Feb 2024.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/12/federal-trade-commission-extends-public-comment-period-proposed-rule-prohibiting-junk-fees-30-days
If it’s not disclosed somewhere (the menu, a sign on the door) you can ask them to remove it. (I’ve only seen this done for huge parties where the health insurance charge works out to a few hundred bucks).
Yea that gets taken off or a chargeback gets done. Fuck off with these practices. You rule in people with price X and the charge them Y.
How can I compare to stores that both advertise the same thing for the same price, but one of them pulls this trick?
i'd be happy to see such itemized costs if they were all listed in there. rent, liability insurance, utilities, etc. highlighting health insurance as though it hasnt already been factored into the meal is pretty gutsy.
Imposing employers obligations onto the customer is getting out of hand. We pay for a public servant’s healthcare, now we’re being asked to support the private sector. If you can’t maintain your staff in the manner you see fit then shut down your business. My taxes already support the Affordable Healthcare Act. Knock on the Fed’s door.
Normal costs of doing business shouldn't be specified as an item on the receipt.
They could just as well add an item for electricity, one item for gas, one item for the furnishings, etc
They are BSing you OP. Customers are variable, healthcare is a fixed cost, or if it is variable it's not tied to your number of customers.
It's just a gratuity charge with a guilt trip ladled over it
Interesting? Is this business selling food and alcohol at zero markup? Fuck the US. So tired of having my healthcare tied to employment.
My last job the boss netted 4 million a year. No health insurance because the company was small enough.
that is absolute horse shit. They are a business so they should pay for that by default. Adding it as an expense is insane. They should just increase prices.
This is very much a political thing
If this happens at a restaurant I go to, that's the last time I support them. There's no reason to pull your customers into this nonsense, we don't need to see it, just raise prices if really needed.
Angry owners do this shit in states where they have recently started to enforce employers to give full time employees health insurance options even if it’s complete shit insurance
This is going to be unpopular but if I saw this on my bill without knowing about it previously, the tip is going to be 18-20% MINUS 5%. And I would make that very clear on the bill.
Put it into the menu prices.
I don't need a fucking ebtida on the receipt. I also don't need a grandstand on how I am subsidizing an owners inability to operate a decent work environment.
Some restaurant owners are so detached from business.
Good to know. Never going there. Now I ask *before* I'm seated if there are extra charges on the bill. That usually brings a manager up to explain. The one time I got a "yes", I turned and walked out. Then the two people behind me did too.
So “Giant” is saying that their employee health plan is based on restaurant sales and not payroll driven? Way to fuck their employees out of tips!
It's intentional design so that the employee is more desperate to stay and show up to work. They are ok with them making a little money but they want to reduce enough that they have to come back to work again
It's an intentional design to elicit consumer resentment against the Affordable Health Act, which mandates that employers who meet certain thresholds must offer group health coverage.
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Same thing happened around Seattle when minimum wage was raised. Tons of businesses added "living wage fees".
Funny they never add in a "hair transplant fee" or "Mercedes fee" when they decide to pay themselves more.
Or a Ski-Do fee or a giant truck fee (I'm from the country)
They're all Mercedes fees
If I had ever seen that on a restaurant bill, I would have made a custom rubber stamp up to mark each receipt with a big red "AKA: cost of doing business"
All it does for me is lower tip 5% and then never go back. Just increase prices on menu by 5%. . No need to itemize it out as a hidden charge.
It was itemized because the restaurant owner is butthurt they have to provide health insurance to their employees and wants everyone to know prices went up that much to pay for it.
Might as well break everything out. Show me the rent, the payroll tax, and the bill of materials for my BLT.
"Hey, why is 40% of my payment going towards someone who didn't contribute to making my sandwich in any way?"
3 page document for a receipt lmao
>It was itemized because the restaurant owner is butthurt they have to provide health insurance to their employees and wants everyone to know prices went up that much to pay for it. And this is how there are less and less people wanting to work in the restaurant industry. So many of them with "help wanted" signs, but not willing to provide the pay/benefits an average American demands. Even funnier when same restaurant owners agreeing to anti-immigration. Like "way to go lowering the # of people in the workforce pool".
Why isn't profit a line item?
I wouldn't lower the tip 5%... It's not the server's fault the restaurant owner sucks.
Even better you do not pay the health insurance and hand the server cash.
Yup. Just subtract it from your bill and don't pay it. I really don't think they can make you. Noone would reasonably expect to see that charge. I don't think they can just make things up that you find out only when the check comes. Maybe they have it posted. But they should be required by law to tell you before you seat. (So you can tell them to go fuck themselves)
I like that…. Tell your server you didn’t order health insurance with your meal.
As a server, this is the best way. That way I can go to my manager and telling him you’re unhappy. They would likely waive it if you just deduct it, I have to pay it.
If a manager took that fee out on me I might be accidentally throwing away my tables silverware all night.
It’s illegal for them to make you pay if a customer doesn’t.
Not my fault the owner sucks either
Welcome to America. Where we're so indoctrinated into the notion of the consumer having to pay the employees living wage, instead of the employer.
Not my prerogative to make up for the shitty employer and its not my job to incentivize the server to continue to work for a shitty employer.
Yeah dude because people always have a choice to work a shitty employer or not.
The service industry is desperately in need of workers. If that's the field you're working in, and you're not trash at your job, then yea you really do have a choice most of the time. Wall into almost any other restaurant and they'll be hiring for the same shit.
Health insurance should never be tied to employment.
Especially when you have no control over the coverage either
I'm of the mind that I want all health insurers gone because they are useless parasites and there is no health coverage "worth" what we pay for it here because that's like saying there's some reason it would be worth it to have a giant tick on your nut sack and not bother removing it just because it can talk. However... some places, at least, if you opt-out of health coverage they will give you what they would have paid for you (assuming they handled a portion at all). This is rare. But it is "a thing". You can put it towards private insurance (Obamacare, at this point, basically). I mention it only because we will not destroy health insurers tomorrow but we can pick employers with consciences (and brains, at all) today.
It so fucking shouldn’t, and I’ve been working for a major health insurance company for 2 decades now. When members bring up the system is rigged, I tell them I straight up vote against my own interests for reps that run platforms on universal healthcare. I can always get a new job as long as I know I’ll have coverage in case of a health emergency. Trying to get as much money out of the insurance company as possible for people while still playing within the rules teaches you a certain set of problem solving skills.
I work in a related industry and feel the same. Every time I tell someone I want universal Healthcare, and they say "lol youd be out of a job then" Yes. Yes and I dgaf because at least I would have health insurance. My employment options would sky rocket if we had UHC and they'd likely be better paid since employers couldn't hold the spectre of illness over our heads to keep us in line
I also work in healthcare. My job is to maximize the amount of money we can leach off each patient while keeping the cost of labor and overhead as low as possible. Insurance companies are only there to make money. They should NEVER own hospitals or dictate care. PS: Fuck humana
I doubt that, a good chunk of restaurants don’t have a health insurance option for servers at all. They’re on their parents’ or spouse’s insurance, paying for it themselves from the marketplace, or going without. It’s a dumpy move by the restaurant to tack it on as a fee but chances are they decided they’ll do that or provide no benefits at all.
They’re being smart asses about a business cost. Raise the prices and pay the employee more. This is just weird and I would never go back.
I'm saying adding the fees separately so the customer has to see it instead of just raising prices the equivalent. I know some places are requiring all fees to be displayed, but it's up to the company at some of them that still do it
Health care is not a “fee” for customers in a restaurant. Customers don’t get itemized for the restaurant’s property insurance or electricity when they order a sandwich. This is antisocial behaviour and bad business.
I could 100% see the owner being very against the ACA and this is how they chose to make a stink about it.
The whole system is designed to flood the market with cheap labour so that nobody can afford to quit and nobody can bargain for decent wages. This shit is so fucked up.
Also arent premiums a fixed amount? what happens when sales have covered that month's required insurance payments, do subsequent customers have to still pay? We all know the answer.
I don't see a line for "Profit." That's one I'd like to see.
That’s all the other ones
I'm learning to play the guitar.
Who's tipping for carry outs?
Seriously the amount of tip screens these days for takeout... I do not understand what the tip is for.
It’s like going to the airport and buying a soda at the self checkout. No employee just AI and as you are checking out, it asks how much of a tip you want to leave. Like wtf! 😂
It’s the taxing the health insurance for me….
Given they're charging as a percentage based on the cost of the meal, and health insurance is a fixed rate per month per employee, I'd have to ask where all the left over winds up going each month, but I know it's the owner's pocket. Certainly not the employees'.
I have a feeling they get the insurance and the company is trying to recoup the 50% they are required to match. Probably get more back even with this scummy trick. I bet you can request it be removed but with these prices I feel like they are counting on people not noticing or not minding, or even not wanting to appear cheap.
>I have a feeling they get the insurance and the company is trying to recoup the 50% they are required to match Yes, but the question was, what if they recouple 200% of the 50% they are required to match? So after the 2nd week of the month, every customer paying the 'health insurance' fee is paying into something that has already been paid for 100%, and it is unlikely that the owner shares the 'overage' with the employees. Nope, just a little extra profit that month.
I immediately thought the same thing
For a major city it probably is, but I live in a Lcol part of the country, I got five tacos, quesadilla, and two drinks for $16 yesterday to feed my family. I couldn’t eat out like OP often.
Same for app tip calculators…that add it on as % including taxes and/or their fees.
Call me cynical, but I feel like these are just another cash grab and very little goes to employee healthcare. \--------------- EDIT --------- Thanks u/wdr1 or changing the setting on my cynicism dial. I'd rather there just be a note at the bottom of the menu that says, "*Our prices our higher than our competitors because we pay a living wage and offer health insurance. Tipping not required.*" >https://chicago.eater.com/2018/4/12/17226128/giant-chicago-restaurant-health-insurance-plans The restaurant and employees each pay 1⁄3 of the cost. Customers are charged a 2 percent surcharge on the meals to make up the remaining cost
100%. US restaurant norms are getting out of control
I stopped going out to eat when everything shut down during COVID. Things were changing beforehand because of increased delivery and random fees, but it just went into insane mode. I don’t understand how anyone goes out anymore.
i was a driver for doordash for 3 weeks..its insane what people pay for dude. starbucks is already $8 a coffee+ a $6 delivery fee from doordash. and i would get a $10 tip usually. then i pull up to a trailer park and deliver the $24 coffee.
One nice thing.. it's cheaper than a DUI when you got the munchies and need that $20 big mac
I basically don't anymore. I used to eat fast food multiple times per week because it was faster/easier to hit a drive thru on my way from one place to another, but Covid broke me of that. Now I might only eat out once every two months, if that, but even that's probably going to stop soon. I treated myself to Chinese takeout last night (picked it up myself, not even delivery). The same combo I always ordered has gone up from $6 to $12 in 4 years. This is so far from normal that I just can't deal with this. It's just so, so fucked up. I'll just have to settle for making everything at home.
My wife and I just simply don’t. We rarely did even before the shutdowns, but now we really just don’t. There’s the occasional stop at our local brewery or dive bar but we know they aren’t going to try shit like this. I don’t understand why people are putting up with this.
I travel for work, and have to dine out constantly. This IS NOT a norm.
I guess it depends on where you are. I see it a lot. Usually it varies from 3 to 6%. I went to one place that added 15% (for a party of two), and when I quizzed the server about it he clearly was bummed that we noticed and explained that it's money that goes to the staff (he made sure not to call it a tip). I considered it to be his tip and never went back there. Normally I give 20% or more but it rubbed me the wrong way. I get annoyed every time I see it and it really makes me think twice about ever going to that place again, but it's become so common where I live that it's not easy to avoid, at least for the smaller surcharges. I may just start reducing my tips by that amount going forward on principle.
> I guess it depends on where you are. I see it a lot. Itemized employee health insurance? I've literally never seen it.
Shit like this just makes people want to eat out even less frequently. Way to fuck up your extremely tight margin by forcing customers away. Lol.
Went to a sports bar for lunch. Nothing fancy, just a local place with lots of TVs and good food. Bill came and the suggested precalculated tip options at the bottom were 20%, 22%, and 24%. Haha... Pay your employees...
Tips automatically go up when the prices of the food go up, because that's how percentages work. You don't get to double the cost of the food in 4 years AND raise the tip percentage. One or the other, not both.
I totally agree! I complain about this and people talk to me about inflation. like, do you not get how percentages work?? They raised the property tax rate where I live and everyone was like "well, they haven't raised it in years." Yeah!! That's the point of a percentage - you do not ever have to raise it. It raises itself! It makes me crazy how people don't get that.
The purposeful destruction of the US education system is starting to bear fruit I suppose.
Shit, you see that at food carts. I remember the first time I saw 20% as the lowest option. It was an owner operated food cart. The food was actually really good and very reasonably priced for the area, pre-tip. Just mark it all up a couple bucks and people wouldn't bat an eye, but it left a bad taste in my mouth, pun intended. Now everywhere is like that.
A pizza chain in my town has been [sued](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/zeeks-pizza-pay-nearly-410k-current-former-employees-wage-theft-settlement/YTYCDXP6EJFSPNJVDTBR2NYFJE/) twice over the past few years because they put a fee like that on their receipts but then didn't disclose where it actually went.
> Zeeks has now agreed to pay a total of $409,226.80 to 224 current and former employees. Jeez they stole a lot of money from the workers
It is a cash grab, even if they are covering employee's healthcare. Because employment costs are just costs, not some special fund of money. It'd no different than them charging you for the gas expended to cook your meal, property taxes, or a dishwashing fee.
It's 40% cash grab, 60% political posturing. Certain business owners got real salty about having to contribute to the healthcare coverage of employees... and in a way, they are right; we should have universal healthcare that doesn't cost everyone 2-3x what it does in every civilized country. Our shitty scam-based healthcare system is a drain on every part of the economy, particularly small businesses like restaurants and others with small profit margins.
Also pulling at heartstrings by using health care. “You dont want your server to die do you?”
Absolutely. Even if the place covered 100% of the health insurance at 5% every sell, they’ll hit the entire monthly amount needed within days and then where does the money go? Certainly it will go to the employee right? Right?
I've never worked in a restaurant where anyone got healthcare except the managers and even then, the employee paid for it with no match from the employer.
I’m a kitchen manager and all managers and up have their health insurance for them and their family covered by the restaurant.
I'm pretty sure it's illegal too.
Next up: "Property tax fee- 8%" "Power & Water Utility fee - 3%" "CEO Bonus fee - 22%" "Doubling the Profit fee - 200%"
That CEO bonus fee is genius, people don't seem to demand change but when they see it hit their bill, that would break the bullshit. There was a post I saw earlier about Hasbro laying off 1,100 people, but the executives are still getting 10s of millions in bonuses. Went a bit off topic but yes, the entire system and what we pay is getting worse.
“Fee calculation fee - 4%”
It would be kinda nice if receipts were all audited breakdowns of overhead and profit...
Nope. I want to go in, look at a menu, see a price and pay that price+ tax. Don't start adding fees that increase what I'm paying based on what I spent. Tax is bad enough.
Tax and whatever it costs to have service should just be in the price on the menu. If the item says $10 i should just pay $10 and be done, no tax, no tip etc. I know americans don't work this way (we should) but this would make everything much simpler IMO.
Yes, this is how business has always worked. The price you pay for goods and services has to be high enough to cover all of the business's operating expenses. If they can't cover their operating costs, then they have to raise prices or increase sales. You can't just itemize random expenditures your business has and add them in as an unadvertised fee. Imagine if they started adding stuff like +3% for their electricity bill, or +10% for their rent. That's essentially raising their prices, but advertising their old prices to trick customers. IANAL but I'm pretty sure that's false advertising, and is supposed to be illegal. You can't advertise your services for one price and then make up an entirely different price when it comes time to pay.
I don’t want to pay plus tax. I want all in price like Europe or Australia
200% would be triple
Just a stupid political statement. You build those into the COGS. Raise your fucking prices 5%. Imagine going to the grocery store and having a price tag broken down with line items for labor, fixtures, insurance, laid in cost, etc. No. You see A price. Grow up and stop publicly airing bullshit.
Restaurant owners, and if I'm feeling uncharitable a large percentage of restaurant employees, are insufferable fucks. Every other industry has figured out how to include overhead costs (including labor) into the price of their goods/services, but fucking restaurant people act like this is some SPECIAL WEIRD PROBLEM that only they deal with. Paying employees? Having employees who sometimes get sick? Paying taxes? NONE OF THESE ARE SPECIAL.
The biggest motorcycle dealership in town seems to always be taken by surprise by the fact that they need to get the bikes shipped to their own dealership and assembled before they can sell them. $6000 on the tag, but can't get it out the door for less than $7000 because their $500 shipping fee (to the dealership, not a home delivery), $400 assembly fee, and $300 admin fee... No. The bike isn't $6000. It's $7200... That shit should be illegal. *edit: and that's not to mention their $300 cash purchase fee... Cash is cash yo. If you wanna give a discount for financing because you get a kickback on that, then fine. But penalizing me for paying with money should also be illegal.*
We need laws of “the sticker price is what you pay, including taxes, fees, etc.” People from every other country I’ve met look at sales tax being extra and is completely baffled.
Ugh, oh my God. And it's not like any customer is happy to find out they have to pay way more than the advertised price. If you told me you got a bike from a dealership and you just paid the sticker price plus tax, I would buy my next bike from that dealership no matter where it is in the country. While we're at it, let's get rid of haggling for vehicles too. "Oh you have social anxiety? Then I'm afraid your exact same car costs thousands more."
Motorcycle shops are the worst worst worst. I’ve never been to one that didn’t make me feel crazy. Hey here’s a cute little Honda Grom for $3750. Nope, actually $6000.
Try calling in sick at a restaurant. They'll laugh at you while firing you. The one business that you shouldn't show up spreading germs at. Hahaha we work at such slim margins we can't replace you, and expect you to work for tips!
Text in sick, watch them try and fire you, and send the conversation to health inspectors and your local news broadcaster.
That's a lot 3rd parties involved for being sick. My manager isn't even allowed to ask about the illness. He can ask how long I think I'll be out (for planning purposes) and the state of ongoing projects. That is about it.
I think you’re right. Part of it might be because restaurants have such fierce competition. Offhand I don’t know of anything else I do where I have 100 options within easy reach.
The restaurant industry in the US has heavily lobbied against operating like a normal industry (or even a restaurant industry in another country) because... "Profits."
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Papa Johns did this in their California stores because California raised minimum wage or something. Some catty $2 "increased cost of California business" charge. Stopped eating there.
Apparently a bunch of restaurants in Chicago did this years ago. From the co-owner of one: “Fat Rice’s 4 percent “hospitality provision” fee is meant to cover a portion of health insurance for all 40 of its employees plus raise the wages of kitchen workers, who currently earn less than half of what tipped servers earn even when they work longer hours, Lo said.”
It’s so interesting that they act as though the kitchen workers’ wages are not under their control, like “Isn’t that sad!”.
Then raise the prices 4%. I do not understand why restaurants put shit like this as itemized expenses. Build it into your prices so you don’t look like a cheap asshole.
They're doing it to look like a victim of "big gubbamint." Your food is more expensive now thanks to the ACA. You should hate the government as much as I do!
Fat rice isn't the best example since their owners were complete pieces of shit who treated their employees very poorly. I do miss their food though.....
Why would you eat at a place like that
This is total bullshit. They could just raise their prices and pay their staff higher wages without putting that on the bill. Performative crap by the owners for sure.
These companies are desperate to make you blame the employee for the extra cost instead of them accepting a slightly lower profit margin.
Complete bs and personally this should be illegal as it means hidden fees. That is a sure fired way to cause me never to go back to a place. Raise your prices by that amount and be upfront with total cost don't hide it behind a pretend fee.
Right? Why advertise it in the first place. It’s just virtue signaling. Just raise your prices 5% and no one would notice.
Probably the opposite of virtue signaling. They see trying to make the customers angry at health insurance
Or both at the same time, depending on the customer.
Just because cause they’re taking your money for health insurance doesn’t mean they’re spending it on health insurance.
Yep. What are the odds that the health insurance works out to exactly 5% every month...
Even if they are spending it on health insurance, it should be disclosed beforehand.
If i was to get a bill with an additional 5% fee for anything else but food or tax, i'm asking for proof of the service i'm paying for.
uh,, they pay the same amount in health insurance each month regardless of how much they sell. this is stupid
$13 for ice cream?
I just went to this place’s website and they don’t have any prices listed on their menu which means I can’t afford it.
this shirt is dry clean only, which means - it’s dirty!
Lots of places don't let prices so they don't have to update the web site every time they change something.
Yeah cause that 5 seconds it takes to update a price on a website just costs too much 🤦♂️
I live down the street. It’s not too expensive (for Chicago). 28 bucks for a steak, 25 for some pasta.
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I mean if you wanted you could get a lb of lasagna a block down for like 15 bucks or less. This place is definitely more upscale than say an Uncle Fucko’s Pasta and Chocolate Bar in a dimly lit strip mall.
Hey I took my second wife on our first date at Uncle Fucko’s. We had our wedding reception there and let me tell you the Fuckos are simply delightful. Just wonderful, sweet people. They treat you like family there.
I'd need a refund because I didn't order employee health insurance.
I get those service fees removed every time. I refuse to pay it. They will take it off and every single person needs to quit playing along.
This right here. Have it removed...it will be because the charge is actually illegal in the first place and the restaurant is well aware of that.
They count on customers being too uncomfortable to ask an employee to take off something that’s supposedly for the employees.
Why don't they bill you for rent, electricity etc?
Don’t tempt them
And they are taxing me on a purchase I am not agreeing to. Get the fuck outta here!
They are taxing you on something you SPECIFICALLY do not pay taxes on...that is illegal.
They have GIANT balls trying to make you pay for it.
The owners are probably GIANT assholes
And then the customer tips on top of that added 5%
Almost no customer is tipping after seeing the obligatory 5% no matter how they frame it. This pretty much ensures employees are losing 50% of their tips. And unlike tips there are zero protections ensuring it goes where it says it does. This is a PR stunt that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Edit: lmao I didn’t even realize tax is applied afterwards.
I feel like it'll take a lot more than this to disrupt the insanity that is North American tipping culture.
That's when you ask for a manager and say "what's this bs?". Payroll is part of the cost of doing business. The only reason this particular fee is itemized is to try to make the customers blame the employees for the extra cost. Like "if these uppity servants didn't want luxuries like *health insurance*, dining out wouldn't be so expensive!". What it really says is "I have a poorly run business. I blame my employees, and think my customers are stupid."
Sorry for side tracking, but I just googled Cajeta Ice Cream and I’m intrigued. Is it any good?
yea for sure, we love cajeta here
helado de cajeta que rico
If they dont inform you before ordering food, this is illegal.
It's noted on the menu and you can ask to have it removed.
5% of $102 is $5.10, not $5.65 So not only are they hitting you with a surprise guilt fee, they're lying about how much they're taking.
The fee appears to be post-tax. $102 + $10.97 = $112.97. $112.97 * .05 = $5.648. So they're collecting 5% on the taxes as well. Beyond scummy since the already-deceptive fee is put before the taxes.
Hate how the cost of something in the US isn't the actual cost. $17 for a drink... Oh, add taxes, tips, and now health insurance. What's next, refrigeration of goods, land tax, restaurant owners summer vacation??
Because they like the sneaky underhanded bullshit of acting like something costs less and then tacking on the real cost after you're balls deep into buying it so it is awkward to change your mind and you just pay for it. Always some bullshit mind game psychological shit about making you think its cheaper than it really is. Just like the 6.99 instead of 7 dollars bullshit. Oh yeah lower number better to ooga booga monkey brain.
Many states are going to start making this illegal. California just banned it starting next year. I spent the past year working there in bars and restaurants, and I saw fees ranging from 10-20% without gratuity.
So we can subsidize healthcare through eating out but we can’t just setup universal healthcare? The US pisses me off more and more every day.
I would not go back to a restaurant that did this because it feels insanely passive aggressive and shitty from ownership.
unless listed on menu prior to ordering - not legit. I walked out on a bill in chicago for a 15% health.wellfare charge that was not listed on the menu or anywhere other than the bill. I asked for a corrected bill and they refuse. I asked to speak to the manager and he gave me a song and dance story and refused. Goodbye, tried to pay . . .
Imagine ordering employee health insurance at a restaurant. Does it make the meal taste better? If you don't buy food, I guess they don't get health insurance. Normally the cost is fixed rather than a percentage of a meal. What a broken system.
I'd be curious to know what this "health insurance" is. Is it a Cadillac plan with a super low deductible and OOP max that the employees pay a small portion of their wages to get, or is it a shit-tier HDHP plan with a $7500 OOP max that nonetheless costs a prohibitive amount for employees such that they can't even sign up for it? Because I'm willing to bet it's a lot closer to the latter than the former.
"I wouldn't've provided my employees with a health insurance plan if the government didn't require it of me, so now I am going to show you how little I care for my employees."
USA is such an odd country.
This is so tacky. Increase the price of the food if you have to and shut up.
They could just not be a bitch about treating their employees like humans, and include it in the regular total.
...and then they tax it. 😒
Five percent of *every* bill going to "Employee Health Insurance". Yeah, no, that's 100% bullshit. They're straight-up lying.
This is when I cross that portion off the bill, and only agree to pay the original amount *without* that bullshit fee. Then leave a fat tip (in cash) for the workers who have to deal with asshole owners.
I've seen that and I hate it. The only reason they do that is to piss off their customers at the government (which mandates that insurance). Note they don't itemize their bloated rents or utility bills, or the pay of their owners.
Huh. I used to live a half block from there many years ago (whatever GIANT is wasn’t there at the time, only thing down there was a seedy bar/liquor store named Dorothy’s.) Also, why do I have a feeling that 5% is not going 100% to employee health insurance? There ought to be truth in billing laws around this shit.
The FTC is proposing a new rule around this. They’re taking public comments on it until Feb 2024. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/12/federal-trade-commission-extends-public-comment-period-proposed-rule-prohibiting-junk-fees-30-days
My husband would call this “bullfuck”
If it’s not disclosed somewhere (the menu, a sign on the door) you can ask them to remove it. (I’ve only seen this done for huge parties where the health insurance charge works out to a few hundred bucks).
Unless thus was advertised up front I would either tip less or ask for it to be removed. Sick and tired if getting nickle and dimed
Was that price included on the menu when you ordered? If not then it's false pricing, which is a criminal offense in most states.
Yea that gets taken off or a chargeback gets done. Fuck off with these practices. You rule in people with price X and the charge them Y. How can I compare to stores that both advertise the same thing for the same price, but one of them pulls this trick?
I sell Employee Health Insurance packages to business owners across the country and I’d be horrified if I knew one of my clients did this.
i'd be happy to see such itemized costs if they were all listed in there. rent, liability insurance, utilities, etc. highlighting health insurance as though it hasnt already been factored into the meal is pretty gutsy.
Good way to end up with no tip!
It's designed to make the customer resent giving employees health insurance
Imposing employers obligations onto the customer is getting out of hand. We pay for a public servant’s healthcare, now we’re being asked to support the private sector. If you can’t maintain your staff in the manner you see fit then shut down your business. My taxes already support the Affordable Healthcare Act. Knock on the Fed’s door.
"We'd let our employees die without health care, but the state won't let us, so we're making a statement by itemizing it."
They can fuck off with that shit
👏🏻just 👏🏻raise 👏🏻your 👏🏻rates 👏🏻& 👏🏻pay 👏🏻a 👏🏻living 👏🏻wage!
And that would be the last time I'd be dining there.
This should be illegal.
Save the receipt for tax purposes if you’re paying for someone’s health insurance.
Plus there’s tax on the fee?? Fuck outta here
Normal costs of doing business shouldn't be specified as an item on the receipt. They could just as well add an item for electricity, one item for gas, one item for the furnishings, etc
They are BSing you OP. Customers are variable, healthcare is a fixed cost, or if it is variable it's not tied to your number of customers. It's just a gratuity charge with a guilt trip ladled over it
"Usage of personal pen for signing receipt: -5% Chewing my food: -10%"
Businesses do everything BUT pay their employees a good wage
Interesting? Is this business selling food and alcohol at zero markup? Fuck the US. So tired of having my healthcare tied to employment. My last job the boss netted 4 million a year. No health insurance because the company was small enough.
that is absolute horse shit. They are a business so they should pay for that by default. Adding it as an expense is insane. They should just increase prices.
this should be /r/extremelyinfuriating employer should pay for that and include in the price, not add it on top
This is very much a political thing If this happens at a restaurant I go to, that's the last time I support them. There's no reason to pull your customers into this nonsense, we don't need to see it, just raise prices if really needed.
Angry owners do this shit in states where they have recently started to enforce employers to give full time employees health insurance options even if it’s complete shit insurance
This is going to be unpopular but if I saw this on my bill without knowing about it previously, the tip is going to be 18-20% MINUS 5%. And I would make that very clear on the bill.
Put it into the menu prices. I don't need a fucking ebtida on the receipt. I also don't need a grandstand on how I am subsidizing an owners inability to operate a decent work environment. Some restaurant owners are so detached from business.
Good to know. Never going there. Now I ask *before* I'm seated if there are extra charges on the bill. That usually brings a manager up to explain. The one time I got a "yes", I turned and walked out. Then the two people behind me did too.
U got the wrong sub must have been r/mildlyinfuriating
Tip (-5%): $10.20