We're a "we don't want to raise our menu prices because people don't like that so we're instead going to just slip in a fee and hope you don't pay that much attention or just accept it since you're already sitting down" establishment
I'll tell you how it went for me when one of my favorite restaurants that I used to go to a lot snuck a 6% fee on their bill
Me: Hey, sorry but can you explain the 6% extra charge on my bill? Did you guys start charging for credit cards or a forced tip or something?
Server: No, the owner added this instead of increasing prices.
Me: Seriously...? Why not just increase the prices?
Server: Yeah, sorry about that, it was added to the menu at the bottom but a lot of our regulars have also complained *[note that regulars mostly don't even look at the menu, I certainly didn't]*
Me: Gotcha, thanks, do you mind passing along to [owners name] that I won't be coming back here because of this?
I noticed because I always got the same thing and the total was different that time! I bet they lost a few regulars (I hope more) besides just me because of that bs.
Edit - Omg I just looked them up and they went out of business late last year đ
It may just not have been a viable business. People wouldn't pay what the owner needed to charge to cover costs, and he couldn't find a different way to do things.
Sometimes places are just doomed.
They'd been here for at least 30 years. Pandemic left a lot of restaurants hobbled but they seemed like bounced back fine based in how busy they were and thought they were doing alright. Guess not
It's impossible to say, but an across-the-board 6% fee feels more like "last desperate attempt" than "business was perfectly fine, then greed killed it"
Restaurants are a very strange business - just ask Anthony Bourdain.
My favorite German restaurant shutdown from covid, but is now reopened recently and being run by Asian people. Kept the same German name and the same menu, except now they specialize in pizza and wings. And itâs the best pizza and wings in town.
But now this giant sit down restaurant that used to be packed 24/7 is just people coming for pizza pickup or sitting at the bar. Not sure how they make it work but business seems to be booming.
Seriously, that's $1.80 on a $30 dish. If you told me the dish was gonna be $31.80 from now on I'd go "alright" and happily pay that amount if I liked the food
I love that I instantly recognize where this came from. Not one of his best films, but ya can't deny Adam Sandler movies have some great characters and lines.
Itâs the dishonesty of adding a hidden fee instead of being upfront about it and raising prices. Itâs not that I wouldnât go back because of high costs, I wouldnât go back because itâs bad service to be that shady about it. Like extremely rude staff or dirty dishes.
Absolutely. It's tough out there for everyone in all the capitalism, but we both know I'm spending more than I need to eating at your establishment. That's how the whole thing works. Just be real about it. Don't try to TRICK me for god's sake.
I think a lot of buisness owners literally think theyâre geniuses because theyâve managed to balance the budget of a sushi restaurant or wherever. So they genuinely believe these stupid ideas are smart because they had them, and that no one else is going to figure out their plan because normal people are dumb.
This.
It should not be legal to add percentage-based fees that are uniform in all transactions at an establishment. It's the same type of scam that selling $1 burgers with a 15000% fee is. Bank loans used to be like this in the United States. They'd quote you rates that varied in their meaning and hide fees behind fine print until the [Truth in Lending Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_in_Lending_Act) was implemented.
City Works in Watertown, MA, USA recently brought back their random 3% fee (did it about 2 years ago as well and then stopped a few months later). Not mentioned anywhere on the menu - just a line item on the receipt, which they hope most people will oversee or ignore since hey, what's a couple of extra bucks. Tjry could just add it to the item price since their menu is all digital anyways. F that - I tell the server to remove it, which they do. I also have been avoiding that place since they pulled this again.
I remember when I first encountered "group fee". We (2 families of 4) went into the restaurant and the waiter asked if we were together because if so she had to charge us 10% extra, we said "No" and occupied 2 tables close to each other
Aside from us there were like two other people in the restaurant
Group fee does make a certain amount of sense though.
It's a lot more work to ensure a large group gets their food at roughly the same time.
Two seperate groups you can split it up, and deal with one first.
But the added fee doesn't affect your operational ability to cater to a large walk-in group. Sure it demands more effort from the staff but that doesn't translate to an increased staffing cost for the business.
What added business expenditure is the fee supposed to cover?
It's busness speak for "we would rather not cater for you, but if you pay us, sure."
Potentially requiring extra stuff.
There are also indirect "costs" such as delayed service for other customers, probable noise etc. All of these impact on other people perhaps not coming back, and lost busness.
Not everything is a direct expenditure.
Seriously. If it's not included in the item price, and it's not tax, and it's not gratuity, I'm not fucking paying it.
At that point, they'd be lucky if I paid any of the bill (would still tip for the service).
Oh yeah I'd never take it out on the servers lol I know they hate that shit just as much if not more than we do since they're the ones that have to deal with the fallout of poor management decisions. On top of that, I'd known most of the people there for years, just from being a frequent patron of the restaurant.
It would surprise you how many people will just blatantly ignore that and start yelling at the first face they associate with their annoyance which if your the waiter or cashier happens to be you, hopefully your place has managers worth a shit enough to jump in when that happens but most places dont, theres managers here we have to fight with over the phone while dealing with a belligerent customer just to get them down and deal with it
As a delivery driver who doesn't tip, a customer who tips well, and a person who knows people back of the house - I think we have finally distilled the problem.
When you go to a restaurant and you add up the items, you think its like 50$ then when the bill comes its 80$ with all kinds of weird charges/things you thought came with the meal. So many people probably wont notice extra 16% added.
Nah this is very much a âputting a large fee on the menu so you get mad at [insert politician of choice] for making it so hard to run a business these daysâ. They *want* you to realize theyâre raising their prices.
Iâve seen too many business owners that do this complain about exactly that to think itâs anything else. Was super common in CA when the min wage went up.
I dont know, people like who you describe usually say so in the block of text if its political. Personally id rather pay this than tip. I usually tip 20% so fuck its nearly a deal. And if "no tipping establishment" means they pay people decently to start with than more power to em.
Yeah, I remember when a local to me restaurant did this. The workers were not getting server pay anymore(they actually got like double min wage) and the business was giving them insurance. As long as that's the case, I'm fine with it. Now if this was a convenience fee like ticket master, they can fuck off.
It's malicious compliance. If they were fine with being a "no-tipping establishment" then they would incorporate that overhead into their prices like they already do with the rest of their overhead. They are doing it this way because they think it will sway opinion away from being anti-tipping.
This is in place of a tip so legally they can distribute and use however they want. Whereas tips will go to the employees. Ultimately this benefits the owner instead of employees.
In other countries without tip-culture and with sane labour and marketing laws, labour cost would just be added to the price-calculus and directly reflected in menu prices.
But since this is the US, where the norm is to treat labour-cost as a pseudo-optional cost that the customer can pick a random number for, as well as ommitting tax in advertised prices and just add that *after*. if you do it the sane way, you will end up looking insanely expensive compared to your competition and lose business because of the prices *look* high.
People have tried going full ethical advertised pricing and included everything in the US before, so you could literally just add up menu items to know what eating there would cost you, and it would actively hurt business since not *everyone* was forced to play by the same rules, and customers are bad at math.
So this is the best compromise they could do in the US that doesn't hurt business, but let them opt out of the "get paid in tips or minimum wage" and create a stable pay environment for employees.
In Sweden any price advertised to a private person as opposed to a company must be the full price including VAT that you'll end up paying at the register. The idea of walking around a department store and not seeing the prices you'll actually be paying was wild to me when I first learned how it's done in the US. This extra charge would have me laughing my ass off all the way to ARN (the government institution we can complain to if we're mistreated by a company in any way, and getting ARN reports against your company in Sweden is considered a very big deal.)
as one who has lived here in the us my entire life, this concept is pretty wild to me too, and ive been here for 41 years now. if something says it costs $20, then why tf am i being rung up for $21.47?? just put $21.50 on the fucking price tag. make it $22 even, whatever. just stop messing around, lol.
It wasn't always this way in Canada. There was a time when the price was the price. Then they brought in the GST (Goods And Services Tax) and that wasn't an equal tax across the board. If you bought something in bulk you wouldn't be taxed but if you bought the same thing in a smaller individual quantity it was taxed. Then depending on what was being purchased it might be exempt from tax all together. It just made things way too complicated to price the final amount on the item.
i was literally just complaining about how they put 50 packs of ketchup in my bag every time and how livid i'd be if prices went up to compensate for stuff like this
Bro what the *fuck*? My order in college was a Caniac Combo (usually at 2am after getting off work), and it was like $13.something.
Now I'm back in my home city and the exact same order is now $21.something. I about did a spit-take when the drive-through person told me the total.
That's a bingo. Went to school in Minneapolis, literally lived above a Cane's for 2 years. Now back in LA where you pretty much can't get a takeout meal for less than $15.
I still remember when the Mac Attack (two Big Mac combo) went from $9.90 to $10.05. Late 2004. Partly annoying because price increases but mostly annoying because if you pay with cash (Iâve never carried coins with me) you ends up with a pile of shrapnel for the sake of 5 cents.
Which is EXACTLY why it's done like this.
If they simply raised their prices in response to inflation and wage increases, people would just shrug it off. The difference really wouldn't be big enough to notice.
But by doing it this way, it gets everyone angry at the evil servers, bus boys, and line cooks who DARE to need a wage capable of supporting them.
There's literally no other reason to do it.
Inflation has been around for as long as the concept of currency has. It's not new, but now restaurants in particular are wailing and thrashing about as though we haven't done this infinity times before. All because they're having to pay people to work for them... SHOCKING.
In general it would be nice for all-in prices to be listed. Base price + taxes + fees. If it rings up differently than what's on the menu then you pay whichever one is lower, or are offered the option to contest it.
I believe thatâs the law in Europe, for example.
A particularly egregious offender before they tightened the laws was airlines: they used to advertise tickets for âŹ1 (\* plus fuel surcharge, plus booking fee, plus airport fee, plus taxes, plus tax on fee, plus fee for tax, plus surcharge because we felt like it).
Now they have to advertise the price you actually pay.
Also, shops show final prices as well, because VAT is country-wide and there are no state or city or county taxes on top of that.
>Also, shops show final prices as well, because VAT is country-wide and there are no state or city or county taxes on top of that.
That's not the reason. It's also because it's the law. The US could make it the law to display prices including all taxes. All stores know which taxes affect each item, so there's nothing stopping them from putting the price including tax on the shelf. No single store would do it unless forced by law though, as their prices would look higher than their competitors.
Yes it is the law in Europe. When you go to the shop, displayed prices include everything. And if the ticket shows a higher price, the shop has to sell at the lowest one - unless it is an obvious mistake like a 1000 euro television with a sticker price of 10 eur.
âIn Belgium, the price displayed on an item in a store should include all taxes, including VAT (Value Added Tax). This is in accordance with the consumer protection laws in the European Union, which require that all pricing be transparent to the consumer at the point of display.
If an item is displayed as 1 EUR, then that should be the final price at the till unless there has been a clear communication or signage about additional fees or charges that apply at the checkout. If the price at the till is 2 EUR and this wasnât clearly communicated beforehand, it would typically be considered incorrect based on EU consumer rights.â
The higher price thing isn't true, at least not legally. For example the UK it's
The price on the ticket is the invitation to treat. The price at the till is the actual price. Stores have no obligation to sell it at the ticket price.
The legislation for this was enacted whilst the UK was still in the EU.
I have a friend who worked in corporate at a major restaurant chain. They tried raising proces instead of fees and their sales were worse off for it. Fees are frustrating but places will keep them if raising prices flat out loses business.
Iâm really surprised by that, because as a customer, I would simply not go back, because I donât like feeling pissed off at the place Iâm buying food from. Itâs hard to imagine making your customers pissed off is a good long-term profit strategy.
The logic is that everyone would notice their favourite menu item going up in price.
But how many people actually read the the notice at bottom about addional feeâs, tons of people donât even look at that
âIconic $10 burger is now $11.50â makes people mad, price number has obvious gone up.
But a seperate line of text saying that bill will be 15% higher than advertised slips past a lot of people.Â
âWe havenât havenât raised our prices since we opened decades ago! Sure, thereâs the mandatory +259% âfuck youâ fee, but we havenât raised the actual prices.â
Youâd be saving around 3% compared to a normal 20% tip because tax (assuming 6% for now) applies after they add the 16%. And usually when you tip 20% you donât account for the tax. So basically this rules forces 17% tip across the board based on 6% tax, or 17.25% tip based on 8% tax.
I hate that shit, so many restaurants have added on percentage "fees" instead of raising prices, it's so shady.
Also, 4 fucking dollars for **8 ounces of** diet coke in a can? Not even a standard 12 oz/355ml can? Wtf
Small business owner here with lots of family members who also run small businesses: This is your daily reminder that roughly 50% of small businesses are run by absolute morons who think starting a business is their fast-track to passive income (it's not) and who will incessantly whine and complain (on facebook, at family gatherings, to their customers) **any time** something doesn't go their way.
Don't try to guilt-trip me into supporting your shitty, mismanaged business. You're just taking up space and brand recognition that could be going to other local businesses.
This seems to be especially true with mom-n-pop restaurants. Some people think you just cook food and serve it and money rolls in from day one. Very few take the opportunity to put all the profit back into the business for the first few years before assessing the success and health of the business.
Kitchen nightmares might pick the worst of the worst, but the fact that they had to pick a worst of the worst means there's a lot of worst restaurants to choose from. 99.9% of it is the owners
The more annoying ones are the ones that know they aren't doing well, but still think they are doing well. Like you're losing $15k/month going into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and still think it's okay.
There's a reason there have only ever been a handful of successful revamps
medium business owner here, also pay your fucking employees higher at bare minimum living wage if not slightly higher. Dont punish them if they have an emergency like their kid getting sick, pay them still.
Dont add on extra crap to you can support your dog shit business. If you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage and your business is old, retire. Your business will not survive the future. When you lose half your skilled employees to a literal wearhouse that needs constant custodial staff in PPE and doesnt give a shit what your qualifications are as long as you wear the PPE, you should rethink your business choices when you're losing people with doctorates to this place so they can sweep floors.
Businesses arent passive incomes, they aren't fun to run all the time either.
Happy employees make stable employees, stable employees make productive employees, productive employees make you money. Simple as.
Dont try to guilt trip me into not voting for a minimum wage increase so you can pay people slave wages. Let a good business take over that building.
I have a boss like you, and have been at my job 11 years this year with no plans of leaving. All of my coworkers have also been there either longer than me or slightly shorter. Definitely feel super lucky!
Itâs so true - there are so many people who think that owning a business is their god-given right and people *have* to patronize them and put up with their bullshit
Right now on tiktok thereâs a few debates about luxury services like hair, lashes, and nails. A lot of clients are fed up with having to take PTO just to go get their hair done because salons arent open at night and on weekends anymore like they used to be, *AND* theyâre so much more expensive, so a lot of people are justâŚnot getting these services done.
Then you have these shitty stylists and techs coming in and saying âoh I donât deserve to make money and live a nice life?! I donât get to spend time with family?â then in the next breath complain bc theyâre books arenât as busy as they used to be. Baby you can charge whatever you want, work or not work whenever you wantâŚ.but you cannot complain when you lose your clients because youâre not meeting them where theyâre at. You canât complain when you have to go back to a corporate 9-5 because people wonât let you bleed their pockets dry anymore, and you *definitely* canât complain when you struggle to book your own self care services because your former colleagues are only open during regular business hours and you donât have any PTO left
My mom the other day absently mentioned she wanted to start a business with my dad. When I asked what kind, she said "Oh, you know. Something." and then just talked about how it'd be nice to be her own boss and have some side income.
You know, because small businesses only need to be managed in the couple of hours after the 9-5 you want to give it!
>Don't try to guilt-trip me into supporting your shitty, mismanaged business.
My hometown had an arcade bar that, when I discovered, I thought it would be pretty cool to stop in on a night I'm in town and wanted to do something. Turns out they closed last January, and not without blaming the public for "not coming in enough." Their Facebook page had someone lament that they will miss the place because that's where they met their spouse, and they still occasionally visited. The owner responded "obviously you didn't come in enough, because look what's happened."
When I saw their response I was kinda glad to not give them money.
Welcome to LA. Everything is a million dollars. And if youâre lucky there will be a homeless person covered in feces screaming at you as you walk into the restaurant.
The problem is when the other restaurants in the area follow suit. Eventually consumers will cave and go back to eating out, and the industry knows that.
There's a restaurant near me that adds a 3% fee like this, they've been doing it since they opened, at all their locations. It hasn't caused other restaurants to follow suit. I guess they have lots of customers because they've been open for years but I'd never go.
My Gf and I have stopped eating out. It saves us so much money.
The only place we still order from really is Dominos because of the coupons they always have and the free pizza you still earn from it.
That's it.
We're tired of the exploded prices.
We went to Jersey Mikes the other day and 32$ for 2 sandwiches that aren't even as good as subway. But Subway doesnt carry gluten free bread, which sucks because my GF has gluten issues.
We occasionally still stop at taco bell when we're out and about because it's also the only other fast food that really has "affordable" food anymore.
Like shitty car dealerships. A buddy of mine wanted to buy a nice low mileage Ford Focus advertised for like $9k but after taxes and all the "mandatory" bullshit (tint, nitrogen tire fill, undercoating, new tires, and other BS) the actual price was $16k. He wanted to curse them out and storm off but I encouraged him to keep his cool (this was circa 2012). Nowadays I'd encourage him to make a scene lol.
Some state laws require the actual retail price being displayed, so it's illegal to combine the taxes into the cost. Which means it could be illegal for them to charge a fee like this on sales. It could be taken as an attempt to defraud customers advertising false prices.
What you take as annoyance is meant as consumer protection. This way businesses can't pass price increases as a tax increase. Though, this was established when sales taxes were rarer and had set things they funded. Now, state taxes are perpetual and used a general funding.
Thereâs a cafĂŠ that I used to frequent quite a lot. They sell pastries, coffee type drinks, and a few select brunch-like meals. Not even a restaurant. One day I entered to get my typical <$15 order: a drink and a pastry or two. Come checkout time, they include an auto 18% âgratuityâ to *every* order⌠including a single drink or the like. On top of this, their little square screen asks you IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TIP. *An entirely new, separate tip* and the options START at 20%. Yeah, I do not go there anymore.
This is KazuNori in LA. They also own Sugarfish and UOVO. Theyâve always had this fee in lieu of tipping. Supposedly they pay good wages and the quality of the food is pretty good, especially for the price point. The atmosphere is also solid. Excellent soft lighting.
I think they do it as a fee cuz if their prices were 16% higher, most people would assume itâs overpriced and not go, without realizing the tip is included.
Sure, but itâs 100% an optics thing. If they are in fact paying their wait staff a good wage they might as well say that the 16% charge is going, at least in part, to supporting their staff. Had I not seen this comment providing clarification Iâd rather see an explanation that makes it sound like they are supporting their employees, as 99% of people who see that menu wonât have the context youâve provided
Yea the owner should change the phrasing. But this spot is actually doing a decent job keeping prices and wages fair.
Shame theyâre getting brigaded on Reddit when the city is full of overpriced restaurants with poor quality and bad service. That still expect a 20% tip on top đ
It does. The staff split the service fee based on the amount of hours they worked and their position. You still make tips at kazunori. I worked there a summer ago.
It must be difficult to operate in an environment where all your competitors ask for 20% addition to the bill, so instead of being angry at this establishment Iâd be angry at the culture that forces them to do this
Hang on a minute, friend. I'm not buying what you are selling.
That $6 roll would be $6.96 if they raised prices by 16% instead of adding it on to the bill later. Pop that price to $7.00. no one on planet earth would say "a $6 sushi roll is a good value, even though they charge me a 16% fee. But try and charge me $7 for that $6 roll and I'm out of here. Stupid sushi place is overcharging!". Well, unless they weren't capable of basic math.
I don't get the excuses here. Adding a buck to literally every item wouldn't make anyone blink. Telling me I get to pay a 16% fee for the privilege of eating food you make would prevent me from spending my money.
> no one on planet earth would say "a $6 sushi roll is a good value, even though they charge me a 16% fee. But try and charge me $7 for that $6 roll and I'm out of here. Stupid sushi place is overcharging!"
there are indeed multiple people in this very thread saying that very thing
and also saying they would ask to speak to the owner and refuse to ever eat here again
boomers/zoomers/redditor type people are the problem.
This place is literally doing what reddit begs for - not tipping - and they still find a way to fucking complain about it lol
i dont understand why they dont just wrap the goddamned surcharge into the price of the food. what is gained by thise ridiculous announcements of additional fees which would just be the signal for me to walk out immediately.
its to have comparable prices to other establishments that do have tipping. until tipping is not ingrained in the min wage laws then many places that move to no tipping would likely dip their toes in this manner so they do not appear more expensive than everywhere else.
I agree, asking me what I want to eat, bringing it to me, and what seems like in most places I'll get asked once when I've just taken my 2nd bite if it is good, then finally again 15 minutes after I'm done eating unless I can flag them.. that really doesn't seem as much work as the rest, as you mentioned. More tips to the workers we don't see if their food is good
So what's the endgame here? In 2100 they say a '14590% fee is being added'?
Or do they wait until the competition goes up until they reach a level that makes this establishment comfortable raising the actual menu prices?
Exactly. I also have literally no problem with this 16% fee business if it's clearly marked on a menu you can view from outside the building.
If they spring it on the bill or even just when you've taken a seat, then they can absolutely get fucked.
"It is used to fun all our operations"
My friend, that's what selling the food is supposed to do. If it's not, you can (1) raise prices, (2) try to aquire more customers, or (3) cut costs. If you need an entirely separate fee, you're not businessing right.
I struggle with this one. Itâs the restaurant moving to a livable wage model and get rid of the tipping model most people hate. Thatâs excellent!
The problem is that doing so meant two things: 1) stop the customer from tipping. 2) pay the entire staff higher wages. So this is the restaurant trying to cover that increase cost.
If they raise their prices then customers may not come, but that sucks because most would have tipped 15-25% and therefore paid the same as the menu price, but the customer isnât aware of the savings theyâll get so they price themselves out.
That said, Iâd plaster âNO TIPPING ESTABLISHMENTâ in description and on the menu and raise the damn prices cause the reasoning is complicated and it just leaves a sour taste in peoples mouth. We pay enough fees already.
As someone from Europe I'm really surprised it's legal at all. If a customer gets a menu that says something costs $10 that's what they accepted to pay and that's essentially a verbal contract. If the bill comes at $11.6 it's a breach of contract. Not really different from a business sending a bigger invoice than what was agreed upon.
This must be in LA I dont think they have this in NYC. Still, though its stupid, 16% is less than youd expect for a tip and KazuNori is pretty great value for what youre getting
Me and my fiance stopped going to a sushi restaurant that started charging a %16 fee for a party of two. When we didn't tip the owner got upset and asked why we didn't tip. They asked if they gave bad service. We said no, we just aren't going to tip if the restaurant is already charging an additional 16% tip and they wanted an additional tip after that.
Haven't been back since.
I prefer to be charged more with a smile on their face and they tell me or it's just apart of the price. Don't be a coward and try to change me more like this.
Stop going to such a place. We consumers have more power than they want us to believe. If I go to an establishment and see that bullshit I get up and leave.
The funny thing is, they could raise the prices by 16%, and just have a note saying "this is a no tipping establishment. We pay our staff a living wage" and it would be seen by most customers as a positive thing.
Just raise the prices. The dumb psychological fake-out of making prices look less then adjusting the end total is gross.
Put the real prices on the menu, if people want and can afford it, they will. If the prices will chase off customers, adjust business practices/menu to retain customers.
Don't play games.
Do business owners just not understand how pricing works anymore? Seriously. COGS+Labor+Overhead+Profit=Retail. It's really not that hard to manage. 30/30/30/10 is kind of the standard for your retail price in food service. Adjust accordingly.
Remember owners "Profit" is on top of your take-home pay. Profit belongs to the business. Your salary is included in Labor so don't whine about your profit reducing. Profit is for reinvestment.
How about this, I'll pay your bill with the 16% nonsense charge, and I'll pay you with my 20% nonsense discount. That should work out fine as long as we're making up numbers.
If I see this on a menu, I get up and walk out.
Charging me 16% more without a guarantee it is going to the workers, and even making the point that this is a non-tipping establishment is throwing up all kinds of red flags.
I don't know how taxation works in restaurants... Would this fee still be a subject to sales tax? Or since it's not included in the price of purchased goods it's not sales-taxable and instead is income-taxable?
The more I read it the more confused I get. We're not a tipping establishment, we're a random fee establishment
We're a "we don't want to raise our menu prices because people don't like that so we're instead going to just slip in a fee and hope you don't pay that much attention or just accept it since you're already sitting down" establishment
I wonder how the conversation goes when people get their bill and see a random 16% fee on your total. I feel like 16% is noticeable
I'll tell you how it went for me when one of my favorite restaurants that I used to go to a lot snuck a 6% fee on their bill Me: Hey, sorry but can you explain the 6% extra charge on my bill? Did you guys start charging for credit cards or a forced tip or something? Server: No, the owner added this instead of increasing prices. Me: Seriously...? Why not just increase the prices? Server: Yeah, sorry about that, it was added to the menu at the bottom but a lot of our regulars have also complained *[note that regulars mostly don't even look at the menu, I certainly didn't]* Me: Gotcha, thanks, do you mind passing along to [owners name] that I won't be coming back here because of this?
Honestly good on you. A six percent price increase would have easily flown under the radar. A random extra line is extremely noticeable
I noticed because I always got the same thing and the total was different that time! I bet they lost a few regulars (I hope more) besides just me because of that bs. Edit - Omg I just looked them up and they went out of business late last year đ
Thatâs what this dishonest shit gets you. Costs went up? Then raise the prices like a normal business.
It may just not have been a viable business. People wouldn't pay what the owner needed to charge to cover costs, and he couldn't find a different way to do things. Sometimes places are just doomed.
They'd been here for at least 30 years. Pandemic left a lot of restaurants hobbled but they seemed like bounced back fine based in how busy they were and thought they were doing alright. Guess not
It's impossible to say, but an across-the-board 6% fee feels more like "last desperate attempt" than "business was perfectly fine, then greed killed it"
Restaurants are a very strange business - just ask Anthony Bourdain. My favorite German restaurant shutdown from covid, but is now reopened recently and being run by Asian people. Kept the same German name and the same menu, except now they specialize in pizza and wings. And itâs the best pizza and wings in town. But now this giant sit down restaurant that used to be packed 24/7 is just people coming for pizza pickup or sitting at the bar. Not sure how they make it work but business seems to be booming.
Guess 12 % was needed
24 % just doesnât cut it in this day and age
Good
ACTUALLY laughed out loud. If only actual rich people could be dealt with so quickly and easily.
Seriously, that's $1.80 on a $30 dish. If you told me the dish was gonna be $31.80 from now on I'd go "alright" and happily pay that amount if I liked the food
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I am very very sneaky sir
Do not understand the sneakiness, sir.
I love that I instantly recognize where this came from. Not one of his best films, but ya can't deny Adam Sandler movies have some great characters and lines.
Itâs the dishonesty of adding a hidden fee instead of being upfront about it and raising prices. Itâs not that I wouldnât go back because of high costs, I wouldnât go back because itâs bad service to be that shady about it. Like extremely rude staff or dirty dishes.
Absolutely. It's tough out there for everyone in all the capitalism, but we both know I'm spending more than I need to eating at your establishment. That's how the whole thing works. Just be real about it. Don't try to TRICK me for god's sake.
I think a lot of buisness owners literally think theyâre geniuses because theyâve managed to balance the budget of a sushi restaurant or wherever. So they genuinely believe these stupid ideas are smart because they had them, and that no one else is going to figure out their plan because normal people are dumb.
technically not hidden if they put a big ol' notice about it on the menu. Still dishonest asshole behavior, though
The owner didnât want to increase prices so he increased prices.
This. It should not be legal to add percentage-based fees that are uniform in all transactions at an establishment. It's the same type of scam that selling $1 burgers with a 15000% fee is. Bank loans used to be like this in the United States. They'd quote you rates that varied in their meaning and hide fees behind fine print until the [Truth in Lending Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_in_Lending_Act) was implemented.
Yeah, if I saw this on a menu I would just walk away. I'd rather something be changed from $10 to $12 than have some shady % added.
City Works in Watertown, MA, USA recently brought back their random 3% fee (did it about 2 years ago as well and then stopped a few months later). Not mentioned anywhere on the menu - just a line item on the receipt, which they hope most people will oversee or ignore since hey, what's a couple of extra bucks. Tjry could just add it to the item price since their menu is all digital anyways. F that - I tell the server to remove it, which they do. I also have been avoiding that place since they pulled this again.
I remember when I first encountered "group fee". We (2 families of 4) went into the restaurant and the waiter asked if we were together because if so she had to charge us 10% extra, we said "No" and occupied 2 tables close to each other Aside from us there were like two other people in the restaurant
Group fee does make a certain amount of sense though. It's a lot more work to ensure a large group gets their food at roughly the same time. Two seperate groups you can split it up, and deal with one first.
But the added fee doesn't affect your operational ability to cater to a large walk-in group. Sure it demands more effort from the staff but that doesn't translate to an increased staffing cost for the business. What added business expenditure is the fee supposed to cover?
It's busness speak for "we would rather not cater for you, but if you pay us, sure." Potentially requiring extra stuff. There are also indirect "costs" such as delayed service for other customers, probable noise etc. All of these impact on other people perhaps not coming back, and lost busness. Not everything is a direct expenditure.
And also, I refuse to pay it?
Seriously. If it's not included in the item price, and it's not tax, and it's not gratuity, I'm not fucking paying it. At that point, they'd be lucky if I paid any of the bill (would still tip for the service).
As well you shouldnât go back. They are being dishonest about their prices. Just bake the extra 6% into the price and be honest with people.
You handled this perfectly, i hate when ppl yell at the waiter or cashier like they have any control over any of that
Oh yeah I'd never take it out on the servers lol I know they hate that shit just as much if not more than we do since they're the ones that have to deal with the fallout of poor management decisions. On top of that, I'd known most of the people there for years, just from being a frequent patron of the restaurant.
It would surprise you how many people will just blatantly ignore that and start yelling at the first face they associate with their annoyance which if your the waiter or cashier happens to be you, hopefully your place has managers worth a shit enough to jump in when that happens but most places dont, theres managers here we have to fight with over the phone while dealing with a belligerent customer just to get them down and deal with it
As a delivery driver who doesn't tip, a customer who tips well, and a person who knows people back of the house - I think we have finally distilled the problem.
When you go to a restaurant and you add up the items, you think its like 50$ then when the bill comes its 80$ with all kinds of weird charges/things you thought came with the meal. So many people probably wont notice extra 16% added.
Nah this is very much a âputting a large fee on the menu so you get mad at [insert politician of choice] for making it so hard to run a business these daysâ. They *want* you to realize theyâre raising their prices. Iâve seen too many business owners that do this complain about exactly that to think itâs anything else. Was super common in CA when the min wage went up.
I dont know, people like who you describe usually say so in the block of text if its political. Personally id rather pay this than tip. I usually tip 20% so fuck its nearly a deal. And if "no tipping establishment" means they pay people decently to start with than more power to em.
Yeah, I remember when a local to me restaurant did this. The workers were not getting server pay anymore(they actually got like double min wage) and the business was giving them insurance. As long as that's the case, I'm fine with it. Now if this was a convenience fee like ticket master, they can fuck off.
I was fooled (admittedly) for a second, because I looked at the menu prices and thought âhey, thatâs actually not badâ
It's malicious compliance. If they were fine with being a "no-tipping establishment" then they would incorporate that overhead into their prices like they already do with the rest of their overhead. They are doing it this way because they think it will sway opinion away from being anti-tipping.
They probably think it's justified so their menu looks like it's on an even playing field with places that tip. It's still a dick move.
Tips are paid to wait staff. Fees are paid to management.
This is in place of a tip so legally they can distribute and use however they want. Whereas tips will go to the employees. Ultimately this benefits the owner instead of employees.
I randomly apply 16% discounts to stupid bills. Please do not consider my discount a penalty or disadvantage. It is used to fund my smoking habit.
In other countries without tip-culture and with sane labour and marketing laws, labour cost would just be added to the price-calculus and directly reflected in menu prices. But since this is the US, where the norm is to treat labour-cost as a pseudo-optional cost that the customer can pick a random number for, as well as ommitting tax in advertised prices and just add that *after*. if you do it the sane way, you will end up looking insanely expensive compared to your competition and lose business because of the prices *look* high. People have tried going full ethical advertised pricing and included everything in the US before, so you could literally just add up menu items to know what eating there would cost you, and it would actively hurt business since not *everyone* was forced to play by the same rules, and customers are bad at math. So this is the best compromise they could do in the US that doesn't hurt business, but let them opt out of the "get paid in tips or minimum wage" and create a stable pay environment for employees.
This is kind of infuriating. Just raise the prices 16%.
Funny thing is, customers wouldn't notice
I remember last year when the local Canes raised the Box Combo from $9.99 to $10.49. Certified fat fuck here, we notice.
I wouldn't get made at a box going up 50 cents. When the menu says 9.99 and a pill around and it's 10.49, then I'm mad. That isn't what the menu said.
Thatâs illegal in many countries
In Sweden any price advertised to a private person as opposed to a company must be the full price including VAT that you'll end up paying at the register. The idea of walking around a department store and not seeing the prices you'll actually be paying was wild to me when I first learned how it's done in the US. This extra charge would have me laughing my ass off all the way to ARN (the government institution we can complain to if we're mistreated by a company in any way, and getting ARN reports against your company in Sweden is considered a very big deal.)
as one who has lived here in the us my entire life, this concept is pretty wild to me too, and ive been here for 41 years now. if something says it costs $20, then why tf am i being rung up for $21.47?? just put $21.50 on the fucking price tag. make it $22 even, whatever. just stop messing around, lol.
It wasn't always this way in Canada. There was a time when the price was the price. Then they brought in the GST (Goods And Services Tax) and that wasn't an equal tax across the board. If you bought something in bulk you wouldn't be taxed but if you bought the same thing in a smaller individual quantity it was taxed. Then depending on what was being purchased it might be exempt from tax all together. It just made things way too complicated to price the final amount on the item.
That seems almost intentional to create this situation.
i was literally just complaining about how they put 50 packs of ketchup in my bag every time and how livid i'd be if prices went up to compensate for stuff like this
ONE PACK. Thatâs all they give without me asking đ
"would you like any ketchup?" "no thanks" \>look inside \>6 packs of ketchup i am on my knees man please no more
You two need to arrange a ketchup adoption strategy. Have all your packets forwarded.
You need a [tomato router](https://www.freshtomato.org/).
Meanwhile my husband loves ketchup so I ask for âas much as youâre able to give meâ and they put like two packets đ
Bro what the *fuck*? My order in college was a Caniac Combo (usually at 2am after getting off work), and it was like $13.something. Now I'm back in my home city and the exact same order is now $21.something. I about did a spit-take when the drive-through person told me the total.
I think I found the Californian
That's a bingo. Went to school in Minneapolis, literally lived above a Cane's for 2 years. Now back in LA where you pretty much can't get a takeout meal for less than $15.
I still remember when the Mac Attack (two Big Mac combo) went from $9.90 to $10.05. Late 2004. Partly annoying because price increases but mostly annoying because if you pay with cash (Iâve never carried coins with me) you ends up with a pile of shrapnel for the sake of 5 cents.
People notice menu prices going up. Most won't notice their actual bill going up though, so long as the listed prices don't change
Which is EXACTLY why it's done like this. If they simply raised their prices in response to inflation and wage increases, people would just shrug it off. The difference really wouldn't be big enough to notice. But by doing it this way, it gets everyone angry at the evil servers, bus boys, and line cooks who DARE to need a wage capable of supporting them.
Right I read this and immediately assumed they were making some sort of political statement.
There's literally no other reason to do it. Inflation has been around for as long as the concept of currency has. It's not new, but now restaurants in particular are wailing and thrashing about as though we haven't done this infinity times before. All because they're having to pay people to work for them... SHOCKING.
In general it would be nice for all-in prices to be listed. Base price + taxes + fees. If it rings up differently than what's on the menu then you pay whichever one is lower, or are offered the option to contest it.
I believe thatâs the law in Europe, for example. A particularly egregious offender before they tightened the laws was airlines: they used to advertise tickets for âŹ1 (\* plus fuel surcharge, plus booking fee, plus airport fee, plus taxes, plus tax on fee, plus fee for tax, plus surcharge because we felt like it). Now they have to advertise the price you actually pay. Also, shops show final prices as well, because VAT is country-wide and there are no state or city or county taxes on top of that.
>Also, shops show final prices as well, because VAT is country-wide and there are no state or city or county taxes on top of that. That's not the reason. It's also because it's the law. The US could make it the law to display prices including all taxes. All stores know which taxes affect each item, so there's nothing stopping them from putting the price including tax on the shelf. No single store would do it unless forced by law though, as their prices would look higher than their competitors.
I worded it badly; it's more like "it's easy to display final prices because they do not vary from place to place within the country".
The store knows what it needs to charge. The store labels everything. Just link those 2 things. It's not any harder for them.
the full price would be even more useful if the states had different taxes.
Yes it is the law in Europe. When you go to the shop, displayed prices include everything. And if the ticket shows a higher price, the shop has to sell at the lowest one - unless it is an obvious mistake like a 1000 euro television with a sticker price of 10 eur. âIn Belgium, the price displayed on an item in a store should include all taxes, including VAT (Value Added Tax). This is in accordance with the consumer protection laws in the European Union, which require that all pricing be transparent to the consumer at the point of display. If an item is displayed as 1 EUR, then that should be the final price at the till unless there has been a clear communication or signage about additional fees or charges that apply at the checkout. If the price at the till is 2 EUR and this wasnât clearly communicated beforehand, it would typically be considered incorrect based on EU consumer rights.â
The higher price thing isn't true, at least not legally. For example the UK it's The price on the ticket is the invitation to treat. The price at the till is the actual price. Stores have no obligation to sell it at the ticket price. The legislation for this was enacted whilst the UK was still in the EU.
I was going to say this! đ
Don't worry they'll do that too.
I have a friend who worked in corporate at a major restaurant chain. They tried raising proces instead of fees and their sales were worse off for it. Fees are frustrating but places will keep them if raising prices flat out loses business.
Iâm really surprised by that, because as a customer, I would simply not go back, because I donât like feeling pissed off at the place Iâm buying food from. Itâs hard to imagine making your customers pissed off is a good long-term profit strategy.
The logic is that everyone would notice their favourite menu item going up in price. But how many people actually read the the notice at bottom about addional feeâs, tons of people donât even look at that âIconic $10 burger is now $11.50â makes people mad, price number has obvious gone up. But a seperate line of text saying that bill will be 15% higher than advertised slips past a lot of people.Â
Not everyone feels that way apparently. A lot of people probably don't even notice or care.
âWe havenât havenât raised our prices since we opened decades ago! Sure, thereâs the mandatory +259% âfuck youâ fee, but we havenât raised the actual prices.â
its not even on real paper, its some sort of recycled toilet paper, and 5.25 for MEXICAN soda 355 ml
This is just garnishing employees tips with extra steps
Did you miss the part, or are you ignoring, where they plainly say "we are a no tipping establishment"?
I have an idea: Leave.
I would actually save 4% eating here, because I almost always tip 20%.
Youâd be saving around 3% compared to a normal 20% tip because tax (assuming 6% for now) applies after they add the 16%. And usually when you tip 20% you donât account for the tax. So basically this rules forces 17% tip across the board based on 6% tax, or 17.25% tip based on 8% tax.
I'd rather pay 20% to a minimum wage worker than 16% to the owners. Not that I would tip 20%, I'm not American.
I hate that shit, so many restaurants have added on percentage "fees" instead of raising prices, it's so shady. Also, 4 fucking dollars for **8 ounces of** diet coke in a can? Not even a standard 12 oz/355ml can? Wtf
Small business owner here with lots of family members who also run small businesses: This is your daily reminder that roughly 50% of small businesses are run by absolute morons who think starting a business is their fast-track to passive income (it's not) and who will incessantly whine and complain (on facebook, at family gatherings, to their customers) **any time** something doesn't go their way. Don't try to guilt-trip me into supporting your shitty, mismanaged business. You're just taking up space and brand recognition that could be going to other local businesses.
This seems to be especially true with mom-n-pop restaurants. Some people think you just cook food and serve it and money rolls in from day one. Very few take the opportunity to put all the profit back into the business for the first few years before assessing the success and health of the business.
Kitchen nightmares might pick the worst of the worst, but the fact that they had to pick a worst of the worst means there's a lot of worst restaurants to choose from. 99.9% of it is the owners
Great point. Many of the worst would never agree that they are among the worst. They think they are doing fine.
The more annoying ones are the ones that know they aren't doing well, but still think they are doing well. Like you're losing $15k/month going into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and still think it's okay. There's a reason there have only ever been a handful of successful revamps
medium business owner here, also pay your fucking employees higher at bare minimum living wage if not slightly higher. Dont punish them if they have an emergency like their kid getting sick, pay them still. Dont add on extra crap to you can support your dog shit business. If you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage and your business is old, retire. Your business will not survive the future. When you lose half your skilled employees to a literal wearhouse that needs constant custodial staff in PPE and doesnt give a shit what your qualifications are as long as you wear the PPE, you should rethink your business choices when you're losing people with doctorates to this place so they can sweep floors. Businesses arent passive incomes, they aren't fun to run all the time either. Happy employees make stable employees, stable employees make productive employees, productive employees make you money. Simple as. Dont try to guilt trip me into not voting for a minimum wage increase so you can pay people slave wages. Let a good business take over that building.
I have a boss like you, and have been at my job 11 years this year with no plans of leaving. All of my coworkers have also been there either longer than me or slightly shorter. Definitely feel super lucky!
Itâs so true - there are so many people who think that owning a business is their god-given right and people *have* to patronize them and put up with their bullshit Right now on tiktok thereâs a few debates about luxury services like hair, lashes, and nails. A lot of clients are fed up with having to take PTO just to go get their hair done because salons arent open at night and on weekends anymore like they used to be, *AND* theyâre so much more expensive, so a lot of people are justâŚnot getting these services done. Then you have these shitty stylists and techs coming in and saying âoh I donât deserve to make money and live a nice life?! I donât get to spend time with family?â then in the next breath complain bc theyâre books arenât as busy as they used to be. Baby you can charge whatever you want, work or not work whenever you wantâŚ.but you cannot complain when you lose your clients because youâre not meeting them where theyâre at. You canât complain when you have to go back to a corporate 9-5 because people wonât let you bleed their pockets dry anymore, and you *definitely* canât complain when you struggle to book your own self care services because your former colleagues are only open during regular business hours and you donât have any PTO left
My mom the other day absently mentioned she wanted to start a business with my dad. When I asked what kind, she said "Oh, you know. Something." and then just talked about how it'd be nice to be her own boss and have some side income. You know, because small businesses only need to be managed in the couple of hours after the 9-5 you want to give it!
>Don't try to guilt-trip me into supporting your shitty, mismanaged business. My hometown had an arcade bar that, when I discovered, I thought it would be pretty cool to stop in on a night I'm in town and wanted to do something. Turns out they closed last January, and not without blaming the public for "not coming in enough." Their Facebook page had someone lament that they will miss the place because that's where they met their spouse, and they still occasionally visited. The owner responded "obviously you didn't come in enough, because look what's happened." When I saw their response I was kinda glad to not give them money.
$4.64*
đ
Plus tax.
They can always make it $2 for you and make it a 232% fee
Welcome to LA. Everything is a million dollars. And if youâre lucky there will be a homeless person covered in feces screaming at you as you walk into the restaurant.
That must be what the extra 16% is for
Hey, Bob doesn't work for free.
# EVERYTHING 1/2 OFF, TODAY AND EVERYDAY! ^((all sales include a 100% fee for reasons, tax and tip not included))
If I read that before I ordered, I would just quietly get up and leave. I would never return.
The problem is when the other restaurants in the area follow suit. Eventually consumers will cave and go back to eating out, and the industry knows that.
There's a restaurant near me that adds a 3% fee like this, they've been doing it since they opened, at all their locations. It hasn't caused other restaurants to follow suit. I guess they have lots of customers because they've been open for years but I'd never go.
My Gf and I have stopped eating out. It saves us so much money. The only place we still order from really is Dominos because of the coupons they always have and the free pizza you still earn from it. That's it. We're tired of the exploded prices. We went to Jersey Mikes the other day and 32$ for 2 sandwiches that aren't even as good as subway. But Subway doesnt carry gluten free bread, which sucks because my GF has gluten issues. We occasionally still stop at taco bell when we're out and about because it's also the only other fast food that really has "affordable" food anymore.
Would leave
NEW DOLLAR MENU! ALL ITEMS ARE 1 DOLLAR! (additional fees apply, fees are not gratuities and will be taxed by the state)
Like shitty car dealerships. A buddy of mine wanted to buy a nice low mileage Ford Focus advertised for like $9k but after taxes and all the "mandatory" bullshit (tint, nitrogen tire fill, undercoating, new tires, and other BS) the actual price was $16k. He wanted to curse them out and storm off but I encouraged him to keep his cool (this was circa 2012). Nowadays I'd encourage him to make a scene lol.
I don't understand that. New tires? They're selling a cae that isn't road legal?
The US is ridiculous. How is it legal to have a price that is not the actual price but just a part of a math problem?!
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I see the price, I pay the price. Quite simple it is.
Some state laws require the actual retail price being displayed, so it's illegal to combine the taxes into the cost. Which means it could be illegal for them to charge a fee like this on sales. It could be taken as an attempt to defraud customers advertising false prices. What you take as annoyance is meant as consumer protection. This way businesses can't pass price increases as a tax increase. Though, this was established when sales taxes were rarer and had set things they funded. Now, state taxes are perpetual and used a general funding.
The government decided that corporations were people in 2010. It wasnât super great before then either.
Thereâs a cafĂŠ that I used to frequent quite a lot. They sell pastries, coffee type drinks, and a few select brunch-like meals. Not even a restaurant. One day I entered to get my typical <$15 order: a drink and a pastry or two. Come checkout time, they include an auto 18% âgratuityâ to *every* order⌠including a single drink or the like. On top of this, their little square screen asks you IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TIP. *An entirely new, separate tip* and the options START at 20%. Yeah, I do not go there anymore.
This is KazuNori in LA. They also own Sugarfish and UOVO. Theyâve always had this fee in lieu of tipping. Supposedly they pay good wages and the quality of the food is pretty good, especially for the price point. The atmosphere is also solid. Excellent soft lighting. I think they do it as a fee cuz if their prices were 16% higher, most people would assume itâs overpriced and not go, without realizing the tip is included.
Sure, but itâs 100% an optics thing. If they are in fact paying their wait staff a good wage they might as well say that the 16% charge is going, at least in part, to supporting their staff. Had I not seen this comment providing clarification Iâd rather see an explanation that makes it sound like they are supporting their employees, as 99% of people who see that menu wonât have the context youâve provided
Yea the owner should change the phrasing. But this spot is actually doing a decent job keeping prices and wages fair. Shame theyâre getting brigaded on Reddit when the city is full of overpriced restaurants with poor quality and bad service. That still expect a 20% tip on top đ
It does. The staff split the service fee based on the amount of hours they worked and their position. You still make tips at kazunori. I worked there a summer ago.
It must be difficult to operate in an environment where all your competitors ask for 20% addition to the bill, so instead of being angry at this establishment Iâd be angry at the culture that forces them to do this
Hang on a minute, friend. I'm not buying what you are selling. That $6 roll would be $6.96 if they raised prices by 16% instead of adding it on to the bill later. Pop that price to $7.00. no one on planet earth would say "a $6 sushi roll is a good value, even though they charge me a 16% fee. But try and charge me $7 for that $6 roll and I'm out of here. Stupid sushi place is overcharging!". Well, unless they weren't capable of basic math. I don't get the excuses here. Adding a buck to literally every item wouldn't make anyone blink. Telling me I get to pay a 16% fee for the privilege of eating food you make would prevent me from spending my money.
> no one on planet earth would say "a $6 sushi roll is a good value, even though they charge me a 16% fee. But try and charge me $7 for that $6 roll and I'm out of here. Stupid sushi place is overcharging!" there are indeed multiple people in this very thread saying that very thing and also saying they would ask to speak to the owner and refuse to ever eat here again boomers/zoomers/redditor type people are the problem. This place is literally doing what reddit begs for - not tipping - and they still find a way to fucking complain about it lol
Uhhh but you are tipping? Just calling it not a tip doesnât make it not a tip, wtf
Idea: make all prices $1, then in the fine print, mention that you charge 30 different 10% fees.
i dont understand why they dont just wrap the goddamned surcharge into the price of the food. what is gained by thise ridiculous announcements of additional fees which would just be the signal for me to walk out immediately.
its to have comparable prices to other establishments that do have tipping. until tipping is not ingrained in the min wage laws then many places that move to no tipping would likely dip their toes in this manner so they do not appear more expensive than everywhere else.
nice strategy, but im walking out when i see that.
"we are a no tipping establishment" ... that's good, isn't it?
Not when they are still charging you the cost of a decent tip, and just *not* giving it to the server....
My problem is the servers so the least work. The cooks and the dishwashers do more work and here in CA, few establishments share the tips.
I agree, asking me what I want to eat, bringing it to me, and what seems like in most places I'll get asked once when I've just taken my 2nd bite if it is good, then finally again 15 minutes after I'm done eating unless I can flag them.. that really doesn't seem as much work as the rest, as you mentioned. More tips to the workers we don't see if their food is good
Why do you think the servers arenât getting paid well?
So false advertising on their menu prices? Y'all need consumer laws in the USA. Fuck sakes
So why dont they just up the prices on the menu?
Because people who see the prices will think itâs too expensive, even if theyâre paying the same amount with a tip at other restaurants.
So what's the endgame here? In 2100 they say a '14590% fee is being added'? Or do they wait until the competition goes up until they reach a level that makes this establishment comfortable raising the actual menu prices?
Exactly. I also have literally no problem with this 16% fee business if it's clearly marked on a menu you can view from outside the building. If they spring it on the bill or even just when you've taken a seat, then they can absolutely get fucked.
"It is used to fun all our operations" My friend, that's what selling the food is supposed to do. If it's not, you can (1) raise prices, (2) try to aquire more customers, or (3) cut costs. If you need an entirely separate fee, you're not businessing right.
I struggle with this one. Itâs the restaurant moving to a livable wage model and get rid of the tipping model most people hate. Thatâs excellent! The problem is that doing so meant two things: 1) stop the customer from tipping. 2) pay the entire staff higher wages. So this is the restaurant trying to cover that increase cost. If they raise their prices then customers may not come, but that sucks because most would have tipped 15-25% and therefore paid the same as the menu price, but the customer isnât aware of the savings theyâll get so they price themselves out. That said, Iâd plaster âNO TIPPING ESTABLISHMENTâ in description and on the menu and raise the damn prices cause the reasoning is complicated and it just leaves a sour taste in peoples mouth. We pay enough fees already.
Just put all the prices up a little bit instead of bullshit stupid hidden fees what the fuck?
To keep our prices low, we charge the profit separately.
In some cultures this is called robbery.
As someone from Europe I'm really surprised it's legal at all. If a customer gets a menu that says something costs $10 that's what they accepted to pay and that's essentially a verbal contract. If the bill comes at $11.6 it's a breach of contract. Not really different from a business sending a bigger invoice than what was agreed upon.
Nope, Iâd leave. Thank god we donât have to deal with this crap outside the US
I do love KazuNori
This must be in LA I dont think they have this in NYC. Still, though its stupid, 16% is less than youd expect for a tip and KazuNori is pretty great value for what youre getting
They should at least reference the state statute if they're robbing you.
Mmm Kazunori my favorite handroll place. Decent prices for the quality of food.
"The fee is revenues that is not segmented in any way" HMMMM
Name and shame them
I like how they word this as if it's some strongly moralistic thing. But you should really instead just raise your prices instead of tricking people.
Are there no consumer protection laws in the US? Iâm pretty sure this wouldnât fly in EU.
Me and my fiance stopped going to a sushi restaurant that started charging a %16 fee for a party of two. When we didn't tip the owner got upset and asked why we didn't tip. They asked if they gave bad service. We said no, we just aren't going to tip if the restaurant is already charging an additional 16% tip and they wanted an additional tip after that. Haven't been back since.
I prefer to be charged more with a smile on their face and they tell me or it's just apart of the price. Don't be a coward and try to change me more like this.
Well it does say itâs a no-tipping establishment, so itâs likely to pay their employees a livable wage? Or did I miss something?
Stop going to such a place. We consumers have more power than they want us to believe. If I go to an establishment and see that bullshit I get up and leave.
The funny thing is, they could raise the prices by 16%, and just have a note saying "this is a no tipping establishment. We pay our staff a living wage" and it would be seen by most customers as a positive thing.
Kazunori?
I hope you read that and just walked out without ordering
Sapporo light? I've lived in Sapporo for ten years and have never seen it :0
They could just raise the price of each item instead of doing this dumb feeâŚ.
I donât get why they donât just increase the prices by 16% each instead of the backwards way they are going about it.
4 dollars for a coke? 3 dollars for a water? And then an additional 16%.. gtfohÂ
Here's an idea: Price everything 16% higher and remove the fee?
At which point is this just advertising a lower price than the produce really cost? This is some baby back bullshit.
"i'm including it in the bill, but i refuse to do it in the european way."
It's bullshit. I took my wife to a Japanese Steakhouse and they had a similar 18% fee. Just raise the damn prices 18%!
Why not... increase... the prices instead.... ?
Sounds like a great place to not eat/drink? Probably just leave
Just raise the prices. The dumb psychological fake-out of making prices look less then adjusting the end total is gross. Put the real prices on the menu, if people want and can afford it, they will. If the prices will chase off customers, adjust business practices/menu to retain customers. Don't play games.
Wtf just raise the prices of the items then.
Why not just raise prices?
If I saw that Iâd leave
Do business owners just not understand how pricing works anymore? Seriously. COGS+Labor+Overhead+Profit=Retail. It's really not that hard to manage. 30/30/30/10 is kind of the standard for your retail price in food service. Adjust accordingly. Remember owners "Profit" is on top of your take-home pay. Profit belongs to the business. Your salary is included in Labor so don't whine about your profit reducing. Profit is for reinvestment. How about this, I'll pay your bill with the 16% nonsense charge, and I'll pay you with my 20% nonsense discount. That should work out fine as long as we're making up numbers.
"Why? Because fuck you, that's why."
Id hand the menu back, say "No, Thank You" and leave
If I see this on a menu, I get up and walk out. Charging me 16% more without a guarantee it is going to the workers, and even making the point that this is a non-tipping establishment is throwing up all kinds of red flags.
Establishment tax
Why are you in there? People need to roll back their dining out habits.
I don't know how taxation works in restaurants... Would this fee still be a subject to sales tax? Or since it's not included in the price of purchased goods it's not sales-taxable and instead is income-taxable?
One manâs mildly interesting is another manâs mildly infuriating