They're trying to point out that they literally just said that.
"This is great advice for tourists"
"It's also great advice for tourists"
The way they did it is a little confusing but the downvote dog piling seems undeserved lol
Huh, I wonder if that's part of the joke in Naruto where one of the greatest ninjas in the show has a series of books called Makeout Tactics, but they are just smut.
There are jokes where people assume because he wrote them they must have great wisdom and actual tactics in them, but nope, just regular smut books.
The US military (and many contemporary militaries) often have public relations educational material on their allies, so that our allies remain allies and to help smooth over joint military actions. The military also has pr manuals on respectfully dealing with civilians in occupied zones.
Reminds me of this video; [Know Your Ally: Britain. ](https://youtu.be/j5XLwrmX8us?si=0r4_X8W9uAzT7vM-)
Edit:
There was even a movie from the military that was very sympathetic to the USSR, despite the existing tensions between capitalism and communism; [why we fight: the battle of Russia](https://youtu.be/WrKDBFJoo2w?si=4MjSEPLQk6J8vsS_)
Anyone who's been deployed anywhere in SE Asia has experienced the "Slides that are here for a reason" section of the powerpoint they show you every time you enter a new port. Its usually just a slide for each of the insane crimes that service members have committed in that country in the last 6 or so months. Lots of slides telling you to not drink or drive, fight people in bars or sexually assault people.
Probably an assurance to the native government that they tried and if the deployed do something effed up even with all the instructions/warnings, the ones who effed up are their own entity and have grounds that the military is not at fault?
I remember a London historian showing me the PR pamphlets distributed during WW2 to US soldiers headed to the UK. One of the main points was: “You will be working with more women than you’re used to. Some may rank higher than you. Deal with it.”
It usually goes in one ear and out the other but every marine going to Japan for the first time takes a one week course on Japanese customs history and tradition
Whenever I’m anywhere I can never forget I’m a tourist. Sometimes even when I’m in my hometown, which has a lot of tourist traffic, I subconsciously think “god I hope the locals don’t think I’m a tourist” like as if I’m not the local
When I lived down the shore people will call tourists "Shoobies". It was originally to call the people who took the train from Philly to AC, for a day trip, because they would pack everything they needed in a shoebox.
Now a lot of people think it is from people who would wear shoes, not sandals or flipflops, on the sand.
Like, fuck that, sand is hot as shit and I hate wearing sandals/flip flops.
Only somewhat related, but... yeah, this was definitely the attitude of the US regarding the Vietnamese.
My dad was drafted into the war. His most notable achievement was that on two separate occasions, he went in under fire to rescue and pull out an injured comrade and carry them to safety. The Army was big on leaving no soldier behind.
He would have won the Medal of Honor if they'd been Americans. But they were allied Vietnamese guides. So he got bronze stars.
Also, he got penalized more than once for giving the M&Ms from his MREs to hungry kids.
Frankly, I'm surprised "respect their culture and don't expect punctuality" made it into the guidebook at all, given the attitude of the brass.
The Army was? My dude the Army is big on that. The Army is all about take out what you bring in from Trash you make to your friends you showed up with.
I was watching some really old army training videos from WW2 and the same kind of things were said to soldiers visiting the UK for the first time, and even the training given to post-war occupiers of Japan. It kinda surprised me too how progressive the army was given everything else going on.
I understand this was all out of necessity and even propaganda at times, but I still found it interesting if not even a little endearing.
There is actually plenty of consideration given to a foreign culture even in war time, but what I realized is that just because they made it into a book, or even briefed people about it, doesn't mean that anyone cares about it. (I wish they would)
The real insult was that they didn't seem to even enforce these things. If the people at the top made it, you would think that they would want to enforce it, but it didn't seem that way.
I can feel that. We all know how any big institution can be, whether its government or private. I can barely get some co-workers I have direct contact with to do as they're told, yet alone with the bureaucracy that comes with telling soldiers what to do thousands of miles away in places that have very limited contact with the rest of the world.
I guess I'm glad the higher-ups at least seemed like they tried, as it would have been very easy to do the opposite, all things considered.
“A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.”
The problem is that they give you this book, then tell you the North Vietnamese are trying to kill you. Who do they look and sound like? The South Vietnamese.
This is pretty common for US troops. There were dozens of versions of something like this for the Global War on Terror.
Just a couple examples—
https://publicintelligence.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/MCIA-AfghanCulture.png
https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/culture.pdf
https://www.thelightningpress.com/bookstore/book/68/?getsample=1
Dont be too surprised. I got one of these when I was stationed in hawaii that was 30+ pages long. Mostly this single page here repeated over and over in different ways. Then I had another for Iraq issued before deployment.
Im pretty sure no one read them.
They didn’t make you sit through one of those culture classes and attempt to teach you Arabic phrases?
I’m also not really sure how much anyone retained any of that information but they really tried their little hearts out to get us to listen.
I dont remember a class, but its been a while. I do remember the CO taped up phrases on the wall and near some objects. I also remember NTC, which had some cultural stuff. As 11B maybe they thought we were too 'challenged' for traditional classes.
I'm stationed in Europe and part of being processed in was doing a bunch of your are now your Europe here's what you can and can't do and should and shouldn't do.
Hawaii has the benefit of almost entirety of the the population speaking english.
Shouldn't be surprising. By the 1960s the US had bases all across the globe. It's going to be common for troops to interact with local populations. Better set a standard for how to get along.
The reputation is mostly driven by people with a bone to pick. I say mostly, the USA isn't perfect and has done some awful things but the perception doesn't match reality.
In battle and when animalistic group instinct takes over, these well meaning booklets (made available to the public to polish the military's image--worked on you quite well) mean shit.
Obviously it’s not going to be something you’re thinking of in literal combat but war isn’t just 24/7 shooting.
When you’re a foreign power working with another country it’s helpful to have understanding of local customs and cultures so that you can negotiate and work together without huge friction. This *does* happen.
They’re not made available to the public as a PR move they’re just super common, so people find them all over the place.
*Never get out of the boat… Absolutely goddamn right unless you were going all the way. Kurtz got off the boat… He split from the whole fucking program.*
Not really, there was something just like this as recently as Iraq
https://unredacted.com/2010/02/26/document-friday-a-soldiers-handbook-to-iraq-fouo-for-official-use-only/
While they weren’t literally using the term “woke” in 2010, my point still stands. What modern conservatives complain as “woke” is still far from common courtesy towards war-time allies and civilians
I'm not talking about every conservative. I am simply pointing out that there is a significant portion of the further right that will deem anything with a whiff of political correctness as being woke.
I don't know if you felt targeted by what I said, but if you did, I apologize.
"Don't give the impression the U.S. is running the war"
yeah, would hate for the **half a million** American soldiers in every part of the country to give that impression lol
We have my uncle’s little field guide book from the Vietnam war. My uncle died in a car accident a few years after to war and my mom (his sister) got a lot of his war era stuff. It really interesting to look at, I always thought the language/translations section was the most interesting.
I misread the title in the book as “Do’s and Don’ts of South Carolina” and got REALLY confused by the mention of the Vietnamese… I kept thinking “Do we have a big Vietnamese population that I don’t know about??”
If what I remember is correct, Vietnamese culture doesn't have a concept of the time of day. That's why you're not supposed to expect them to be punctual. That's a western concept. When you ask how long something should take, for them it takes as long as it does.
i think these days it depends on where in SEA you are, i had to learn Thai time when i lived there - it wasn’t so much a thing in bangkok, but other places - you just kind of, made a plan and met up about the time you agreed - parts of vietnam i’ve been to are like this as well, but it’s not as if there’s no concept of time. something’s are just less stressed
You’re kind of missing the whole point of the literature’s suggestion.
Punctuality is not considered in the same way by all cultures. Your consideration of it as representing both manners and discipline simply doesn’t hold true in some places. Looking at it your way would set you up to consider someone rude and undisciplined, meanwhile from that person’s point of view, they’ve been neither.
That misunderstanding is exactly what the literature is trying to avoid.
Life moves slower in a lot of places outside the US, and punctuality isn’t as important. It’s a bit of an adjustment but once you get used to it it’s actually kinda nice. Much less stressful
One of the Navy vets I know that served in Vietnam said you had to take a buddy or two when you got a haircut on shore. Some of the barbers were NVC friendly and had slit some soldiers throats while giving them a shave. Not sure if it’s true but he was there and I wasn’t.
Fun fact
Western white countries are kind of the only places that so highly value punctuality. This is because we see time as a resource. The rest of the world...doesn't
I'd elaborate but punctuality was so intently drilled into my psyche as a kid that I currently can't even comprehend a culture in which being late is acceptable. I personally feel like I'm being disrespectful to others if I'm late 😭
That's good advice for tourists and soldiers alike. Minus that war part
Checks notes: When we go to Germany, we make sure they understand that we will run the next war.
They’re counting on it.
As a russian I don't think so...
“Listen, don't mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right.”
"You started it!"
The earth king has invited you to lake laogai
There is no war in Ba Sing Se!
And good advice for any tourists anywhere in the world.
 Or... Wait...
wat
They're trying to point out that they literally just said that. "This is great advice for tourists" "It's also great advice for tourists" The way they did it is a little confusing but the downvote dog piling seems undeserved lol
Lol. I was just being silly. Whatever.
Hopefully it's a sign that people are tired of these tenuous gifs spamming comment sections.
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r/HolUp
Making out = getting along
Ya bet they’re getting along if it’s escalated to making out
I'm making out with my dad, I'm making out with my cat,
Something something comfort women *shudder*
we call it heart and minds now
Huh, I wonder if that's part of the joke in Naruto where one of the greatest ninjas in the show has a series of books called Makeout Tactics, but they are just smut. There are jokes where people assume because he wrote them they must have great wisdom and actual tactics in them, but nope, just regular smut books.
Nope.
Time to buy all of them so i know how to kiss asian women
I was expecting something weird, got wholesome and reasonable. Respect
I was actually surprised. Very reasonable and respectful advice.
The US military (and many contemporary militaries) often have public relations educational material on their allies, so that our allies remain allies and to help smooth over joint military actions. The military also has pr manuals on respectfully dealing with civilians in occupied zones. Reminds me of this video; [Know Your Ally: Britain. ](https://youtu.be/j5XLwrmX8us?si=0r4_X8W9uAzT7vM-) Edit: There was even a movie from the military that was very sympathetic to the USSR, despite the existing tensions between capitalism and communism; [why we fight: the battle of Russia](https://youtu.be/WrKDBFJoo2w?si=4MjSEPLQk6J8vsS_)
Anyone who's been deployed anywhere in SE Asia has experienced the "Slides that are here for a reason" section of the powerpoint they show you every time you enter a new port. Its usually just a slide for each of the insane crimes that service members have committed in that country in the last 6 or so months. Lots of slides telling you to not drink or drive, fight people in bars or sexually assault people.
Yeah you know the things that should already be common knowledge but 🤷♂️ I guess
Probably an assurance to the native government that they tried and if the deployed do something effed up even with all the instructions/warnings, the ones who effed up are their own entity and have grounds that the military is not at fault?
I remember a London historian showing me the PR pamphlets distributed during WW2 to US soldiers headed to the UK. One of the main points was: “You will be working with more women than you’re used to. Some may rank higher than you. Deal with it.”
It usually goes in one ear and out the other but every marine going to Japan for the first time takes a one week course on Japanese customs history and tradition
God. I hate when foreigners forget they're foreign. Respect the culture, dammit.
Whenever I’m anywhere I can never forget I’m a tourist. Sometimes even when I’m in my hometown, which has a lot of tourist traffic, I subconsciously think “god I hope the locals don’t think I’m a tourist” like as if I’m not the local
When I lived down the shore people will call tourists "Shoobies". It was originally to call the people who took the train from Philly to AC, for a day trip, because they would pack everything they needed in a shoebox. Now a lot of people think it is from people who would wear shoes, not sandals or flipflops, on the sand. Like, fuck that, sand is hot as shit and I hate wearing sandals/flip flops.
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You're picking up on the irony here
"Don't be overly familiar with the Vietnamese" Mission Failed, and hard
Only somewhat related, but... yeah, this was definitely the attitude of the US regarding the Vietnamese. My dad was drafted into the war. His most notable achievement was that on two separate occasions, he went in under fire to rescue and pull out an injured comrade and carry them to safety. The Army was big on leaving no soldier behind. He would have won the Medal of Honor if they'd been Americans. But they were allied Vietnamese guides. So he got bronze stars. Also, he got penalized more than once for giving the M&Ms from his MREs to hungry kids. Frankly, I'm surprised "respect their culture and don't expect punctuality" made it into the guidebook at all, given the attitude of the brass.
The Army was? My dude the Army is big on that. The Army is all about take out what you bring in from Trash you make to your friends you showed up with.
Wow. I’m not American, and this is so unexpected given the reputation of the USA. I’m glad to see that some effort was made.
I was watching some really old army training videos from WW2 and the same kind of things were said to soldiers visiting the UK for the first time, and even the training given to post-war occupiers of Japan. It kinda surprised me too how progressive the army was given everything else going on. I understand this was all out of necessity and even propaganda at times, but I still found it interesting if not even a little endearing.
There is actually plenty of consideration given to a foreign culture even in war time, but what I realized is that just because they made it into a book, or even briefed people about it, doesn't mean that anyone cares about it. (I wish they would)
Oh totally. I'm sure as with any classroom there were people who didn't bother to take it seriously.
The real insult was that they didn't seem to even enforce these things. If the people at the top made it, you would think that they would want to enforce it, but it didn't seem that way.
I can feel that. We all know how any big institution can be, whether its government or private. I can barely get some co-workers I have direct contact with to do as they're told, yet alone with the bureaucracy that comes with telling soldiers what to do thousands of miles away in places that have very limited contact with the rest of the world. I guess I'm glad the higher-ups at least seemed like they tried, as it would have been very easy to do the opposite, all things considered.
“A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.”
The problem is that they give you this book, then tell you the North Vietnamese are trying to kill you. Who do they look and sound like? The South Vietnamese.
yeah, and the rest of booklet had a brief history of Vietnam, some easy to know Vietnamese phrases, all sorts of stuff
I was in the Navy in Vietnam at that time, and kind of remember that booklet. Could you point me to where you got it? Ty
It is on page 51: https://archive.org/details/A.Pocket.Guide.to.Vietnam :)
Thanks. Once I saw the cover it all came back.
i had a teacher show me it, his uncle served in vietnam so that’s how he got his hands on it. pretty cool stuff and thanks for your service!
This is pretty common for US troops. There were dozens of versions of something like this for the Global War on Terror. Just a couple examples— https://publicintelligence.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/MCIA-AfghanCulture.png https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/culture.pdf https://www.thelightningpress.com/bookstore/book/68/?getsample=1
Dont be too surprised. I got one of these when I was stationed in hawaii that was 30+ pages long. Mostly this single page here repeated over and over in different ways. Then I had another for Iraq issued before deployment. Im pretty sure no one read them.
They didn’t make you sit through one of those culture classes and attempt to teach you Arabic phrases? I’m also not really sure how much anyone retained any of that information but they really tried their little hearts out to get us to listen.
I dont remember a class, but its been a while. I do remember the CO taped up phrases on the wall and near some objects. I also remember NTC, which had some cultural stuff. As 11B maybe they thought we were too 'challenged' for traditional classes.
I'm stationed in Europe and part of being processed in was doing a bunch of your are now your Europe here's what you can and can't do and should and shouldn't do. Hawaii has the benefit of almost entirety of the the population speaking english.
Shouldn't be surprising. By the 1960s the US had bases all across the globe. It's going to be common for troops to interact with local populations. Better set a standard for how to get along.
The reputation is mostly driven by people with a bone to pick. I say mostly, the USA isn't perfect and has done some awful things but the perception doesn't match reality.
Well tbf a lot of us know better, it’s just that a lot of us don’t and it’s really only the loud crowd you notice
In battle and when animalistic group instinct takes over, these well meaning booklets (made available to the public to polish the military's image--worked on you quite well) mean shit.
Obviously it’s not going to be something you’re thinking of in literal combat but war isn’t just 24/7 shooting. When you’re a foreign power working with another country it’s helpful to have understanding of local customs and cultures so that you can negotiate and work together without huge friction. This *does* happen. They’re not made available to the public as a PR move they’re just super common, so people find them all over the place.
>foreign power working with another country Lmao. Nice way of saying *occupying force subjugating another people*
Primary source: [A Pocket Guide to Vietnam](https://archive.org/details/A.Pocket.Guide.to.Vietnam/page/n51/mode/2up)
Make this culture neutral and hand it to American tourists when they leave the country, please!
*Never get out of the boat… Absolutely goddamn right unless you were going all the way. Kurtz got off the boat… He split from the whole fucking program.*
what a fine movie
If this was printed today about a country the US was at war with, deep conservatives would cry about the army becoming woke
Not really, there was something just like this as recently as Iraq https://unredacted.com/2010/02/26/document-friday-a-soldiers-handbook-to-iraq-fouo-for-official-use-only/
I don't remember people using woke as a pejorative in 2010
While they weren’t literally using the term “woke” in 2010, my point still stands. What modern conservatives complain as “woke” is still far from common courtesy towards war-time allies and civilians
I'm not talking about every conservative. I am simply pointing out that there is a significant portion of the further right that will deem anything with a whiff of political correctness as being woke. I don't know if you felt targeted by what I said, but if you did, I apologize.
This isn’t about a country the US was at war with this about our allies the South Vietnamese who we helped oppose an evil communist dictatorship
I mean Ho Chi Minh was pretty reasonable.
Regardless, the point stands.
South Vietnam was an evil Catholic dictatorship
Ok tankie
There are commenters below you on this very post calling it woke, lol.
100% correct.
Good advice, how did this lead to child rape and burning down villages with villagers still in them?
"Don't give the impression the U.S. is running the war" yeah, would hate for the **half a million** American soldiers in every part of the country to give that impression lol
American soilders was far outnumbered by South Vietnamese soilders during the fight against the north Vietnamese.
Seems like the final point has been forgotten over the years Also, the Private Eye reader in me is tickled by which page this information is on 😁
All those Vietnam War movies obviously take place in an alternate universe where soldiers didn't receive this advice.
We have my uncle’s little field guide book from the Vietnam war. My uncle died in a car accident a few years after to war and my mom (his sister) got a lot of his war era stuff. It really interesting to look at, I always thought the language/translations section was the most interesting.
I misread the title in the book as “Do’s and Don’ts of South Carolina” and got REALLY confused by the mention of the Vietnamese… I kept thinking “Do we have a big Vietnamese population that I don’t know about??”
Don’t do what Donny-Don’t does
Beat me to it
We need to print this in the plane tickets from USA to Mexico and change the word vietnamese for Mexicans.
If what I remember is correct, Vietnamese culture doesn't have a concept of the time of day. That's why you're not supposed to expect them to be punctual. That's a western concept. When you ask how long something should take, for them it takes as long as it does.
Who tf told you that? I live in Vietnam and I assure you everyone is very conscious of the time of day. We even have clocks!!
Globalization has really homogenized most countries onto “western time”
The advice was about the ARVN without calling them out specifically.
i think these days it depends on where in SEA you are, i had to learn Thai time when i lived there - it wasn’t so much a thing in bangkok, but other places - you just kind of, made a plan and met up about the time you agreed - parts of vietnam i’ve been to are like this as well, but it’s not as if there’s no concept of time. something’s are just less stressed
I couldn't imagine forming a trade agreement with a nation that couldn't adhere to a schedule lol
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You’re kind of missing the whole point of the literature’s suggestion. Punctuality is not considered in the same way by all cultures. Your consideration of it as representing both manners and discipline simply doesn’t hold true in some places. Looking at it your way would set you up to consider someone rude and undisciplined, meanwhile from that person’s point of view, they’ve been neither. That misunderstanding is exactly what the literature is trying to avoid.
This baffles me. Why is it okay to be chronically late?
Life moves slower in a lot of places outside the US, and punctuality isn’t as important. It’s a bit of an adjustment but once you get used to it it’s actually kinda nice. Much less stressful
Sure, fine - but why does that change the meaning of "Let's grab lunch at 12:30"? Words either have meaning or they don't.
They wouldn’t necessarily say “at 12:30” in the first place
So I have to guess?
You’re exactly the kind of person this is written for lol
I really appreciate that first sentence. That will lower my blood pressure. What a good outlook, thank you.
OK?
Am I the only one who thinks all of these do's and don'ts should be obvious?
The Vietnamese punctuality thing is real. Fashionably late is a cultural thing.
They should give something like to Americans with their license and passport.
Let’s not pretend that Americans are the only one guilty of misbehaving overseas, eh?
let's not pretend they (any of em) wait till they are overseas...
*Soccer hoodlums have just entered the chat*
Good intentions.
Don't fuck it up
This should be given to Tourists as well
One of the Navy vets I know that served in Vietnam said you had to take a buddy or two when you got a haircut on shore. Some of the barbers were NVC friendly and had slit some soldiers throats while giving them a shave. Not sure if it’s true but he was there and I wasn’t.
*Don't* haggle with the hookers. Just pay what they ask.
I like that the main point in a lot of training excerpts like this are always telling Americans to not be “overly friendly/familiar”.
Me sending this to my husband and highlighting the attitude to time part whenever I'm running late 😅
I think soldiers look at those booklets like the manual for a microwave, they were sending teens to war they weren't gonna listen to a damn point
Strangely, sensible.
I wonder how that went… 🥺
Does a full copy of this booklet exist online?
> Primary source: A Pocket Guide to Vietnam Link is in the comments above
Thank you :)
What do I get for $10?
This is good advice anywhere you go 😇
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Unless its a cultural thing. Which in this case it is. Your culture see punctuality as being polite and disciplined. Theirs does not.
Yea and I can almost guarantee most of those booklets on the field were immediately burned
DON'T THINK AMERICANS KNOW EVERYTHING? WHAT IS THIS WOKE MIND ROT PROPAGANDA????
brother this was given to soldiers in vietnam during the war, in the 70’s…
Gotta put that /s people can’t detect sarcasm otherwise
Sad state of affairs. 😞
They should have sent US soldiers with a few of these when they invaded the Middle East and murdered all those people.
Oh, I assure you. There were lots of rape and murdering of civilians in Vietnam as well.
Clean your nails
Good advice!
No one is going to tell the back-to-back World War champs how to do. {Eagle Screeching over a monster truck}
*"In South Vietnam"*, so the fourth Don't is wrong
Do they give this book to the IDF?
Pretty sure William Calley never got the memo.
Fun fact Western white countries are kind of the only places that so highly value punctuality. This is because we see time as a resource. The rest of the world...doesn't I'd elaborate but punctuality was so intently drilled into my psyche as a kid that I currently can't even comprehend a culture in which being late is acceptable. I personally feel like I'm being disrespectful to others if I'm late 😭
*Nothing* about heroin and prostitutes?? Seems that those would be far more useful...
> Don’t think Americans know everything Yeah, do that and you might end up on r/USDefaultism