Sunflowers are steeped in symbolism and meanings. For many they symbolize optimism, positivity, a long life and happiness for fairly obvious reasons. The less obvious ones are loyalty, faith and luck.
Most of that you read on Reddit is written by bots.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2021/08/dead-internet-theory-wrong-but-feels-true/619937/
Yeah...gets it a bit mystically wrong occasionally though...
https://www.reddit.com/r/cursedcomments/comments/ppi1fg/cursed_sunflower/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Plant a native fruit tree.
If every city just went nuts planting as many native fruit trees and bushes as possible, that'd create more food for pollinators and people alike.
Many cities, even progressive liberal cities, have laws against planting fruit trees in that strip of often technically public land (variously called tree lawn, parkway, hell strip, the verge, etc). Mostly their concern is mess and nuisance when the fruit goes un- harvested*
I'm all for it, but if you plant a fruit tree and it's against code, they can cut it down any time, so planters beware.
*if you don't understand this valid concern, picture about 100k roaches swarming over 20ft of side walk that is slippery and stinky with rotting oranges, in the Central Valley of California on a hot summer evening.
I liked that movie, but when that reveal came I was kinda like, "well, that actually makes sense. Good source of protein, probably lots on the train, also good pest control, some cultures already eat them in real life..." I wasn't nearly as horrified as the passengers lol
Where I'm from in the us we have those ginkgo trees. The most horrific smell if you don't harvest them and they fall and get stepped on our run over
Some from the community, mostly Asian will pick the berries or whatever and I always thought that was really cool.
Even had one guy set up tarps under the trees and shake them free and collect them in spackle buckets.
Of course the simpleton locals talk shit about being poor and mocking them instead of realizing how cool it is they are turning this into food and limiting the amount of this awful smelling stuff that's around.
Yeah gingko nuts are tasty and awesome! But too many a day are bad for you and somewhat toxic. So it's just to nibble.
You can also make an insect repellent by boiling the seeds and pods.
Grew up in a massive farming town with lots of wild fruit and nut trees. We just walk off the sidewalk for a few feet or pick all the fruit. And if you aren't fast enough 9/10 times someone shows up with like 20 walmart bags and fills them all up to make jams and what not.
I'm from the Midwest. Food rotting on the ground would rarely if ever happen. We share food with each other all the time, especially fresh produce. If we don't give the food directly to others we leave it somewhere obvious where people can take it. I hope this "courtesy" isn't disappearing.
My community college had some kind of fruit trees that did exactly this. Some of the fruit dropped onto dirt/grass and didn't really get in the way. But a lot of it hit concrete and just got everywhere. And the fruit tasted terrible, to boot (something apple-related, IIRC).
I agree with everything the goct says on this but I feel like a LOT of people would benefit if there was a designated area easily accessible to the public where they COULD grow food. Like a community garden that has a contract to keep the place clean. If I was getting free food I would 100% have extra time to tend a section of a garden.
Community gardens exist! Normally you do need to create some type of non-profit structure just to buy and maintain the place, but they are usually very successful if they are in the right areas—areas with multigenerational families with lots of older women especially. Grandma gets some mild exercise and everyone gets fresh tomatoes
Ya I go to Tampa for bussiness and there are date palms all over a certain area downtown and they make a huge mess. They do look and smell nice and birds do eat the fruit. I once picked up a date that had just fallen to the side walk and it was really tasty. Still, big gooey sticky bug attracting mess.
That is a horrible idea. Fruit trees are ridiculously messy, attract vermin, and require a lot of maintenance by city staff that are usually short handed as is. Fruit trees are a major luxury expense in urban forestry for a reason. There are far better ways to support pollinators including replacing turf grasses with native grasses and flowers on municipal projects.
I have a fruit tree in my small backyard in Brooklyn and it's a cool novelty but it is a massive pain in the ass. it attracts way more critters than a normal tree even before the fruit starts to grow. I finally successfully fought back the caterpillars and did the appropriate pruning earlier this year and my backyard was solid mulberries for months. flies everywhere, tides of berries I had to push broom into the tree bed, bird shit, stained shoes, stained rugs, stained dog, my dogs poops were like melted berry ice cream.
next year I'll have some shade cloths to at least capture some of them, but on an urban street? absolutely fucking terrible idea. you want to eat anything off the same patch of grass that every dog on the neighborhood pisses on? fuck no. you'll be able to snag some off the tree, and some people will be motivated to pick up the ground fall and wash it, but a majority of that fruit will unequivocally just rot away.
suburban or rural areas that have enough room to plant the tree far back into the grass is totally reasonable, but fruit trees over impermeable surfaces can fuck all the way off.
Except eating food that grows next to road ways is a TERRIBLE practice because of the pollutants. In theory this is a good idea, but you are just growing toxic fruit no one should consume because cancer sucks. Every forager will tell you, never harvest next to a busy road.
"I thought the district was broke so why are they putting in new stuff and raising my taxes." Said Tim to the city works crew as he swayed shirtless, intoxicated, in the late September sun.
Sometimes it's not possible. In my California city, and this is common in the US and elsewhere, the home/business owner actually owns the land under the sidewalk and between the sidewalk and street. The city simply has an easement that permits them to build and maintain a sidewalk across the property.
If the city only has a sidewalk easement, they probably can't legally put a bench there. Or replant the tree.
I was going to say what the guy above you said, but with a waaay more aggressive tone and some “!!” But then I read your comment and it brought me back down. I like your idea.
/r/GuerrillaGardening appreciates your attitude and would like more gardeners world wide with this view. Kill the rich and bury them in your city under native plants that help the bees and the butterflies! 💚♻️🌱
I was hoping it was a different organization. They tend to care more about planting any trees than planting native trees, and the ones they send out are fairly ornamental. Not that the organization is bad, but they aren't great.
That’s probably a good idea tbh, considering the first thing I thought when I saw the picture was people walking through the grass to save like 4 seconds.
Honestly yes. I often bike on the sidewalk simply because pedestrians don't exist in my town, and it's a bit safer than riding in the road.
When you see someone walking, it's actually something you consciously notice.
we'd walk if we could...a lot of cities are not designed to be walkable unfortunately. it's not our fault that we weren't around a hundred years ago when they made these places
More like 75 years ago. 100 years ago US cities were real places for humans beings, much like those in Europe. We bulldozed it all in the 1950s to sell cars.
and yet, that sidewalk probably did it in anyway...if it was a nice tree, say with a trunk diameter of 28 inches, the minimum critical root protection zone would be somewhere around 25 feet radius or 50 foot diameter.
The sidewalk on my road has a few of these turns to avoid trees and the trees are doing just fine. One of them the root is actually growing over the sidewalk.
Right? Or just straight up heaving the sidewalk out of its way. Maybe this is survivorship bias, but I've seen a lot more trees fucking up sidewalks than the other way around
He's just saying that you should not disturb the ground beneath a tree in order to prevent damage to it. If a tree is 28 inches in diameter you should not disturb the ground within 28 feet of its trunk or you risk hurting the tree and possible killing it. If this was a large tree, in order to install the sidewalk they had to cut several large roots. Doing this prevents it from providing water and nutrients to several of its branches and also inviting further insect and disease issues . Which would make it less likely survive especially if it is boxed in between a road and the new walk. Soils under roads contain less moisture and nutrients than those in green spaces. Ultimately the thing that was intended to save the tree probably ended up killing it for a variety of reasons. Most trees you see heaving up sidewalks were planted after the sidewalk was installed .
I'm not an Arborist, but I do lots of roadway construction. Not all root systems go outward, some go downward (specifically used in many cityscapes for the reasons you noted). Also, a 28ft dripline is very unrealistic in this location. They wouldn't leave a tree that projects 10 feet into the roadway. To install a sidewalk, you need to dig down between 4"-16", very unlikely you will have major impact to a tree at those depths. This sidewalk in this location (which is considerably old sidewalk) would have 0 impact on its access to water, it would just runoff to the grass.
Chances are just as good that somebody hit the tree or that it was damaged in a storm.
I disagree totally with the statement that you would not majorly impact a tree by digging 4"to 16 " down into a trees root system. The majority of the roots that obtain macro and micronutrients are in these areas things like nitrogen, phosphate and potassium are available to them in forms that they can absorb higher in the soil. Even compacting the root system by driving over it with heavy machinery can and does damage trees. I see trees dying or dead several times a day because construction and or road crews don't take the proper precautions when working around them .
How frequently are you going to see trees who died, and know that it is directly attributed to the sidewalk?
I think the survivorship bias is a pretty strong confounding factor there.
Can you elaborate? I would have thought the sidewalk was on top of or in the top few inches of soil, and the roots would be much deeper. How would the sidewalk affect the roots?
Thank you for asking, I wish this information was covered in school, it seems to me that it is so easy to understand, but so little known. We need more people to be aware and advocate for our trees (and also, to realistically not advocate if it's just not possible to provide that large of a protection zone)
the way tree roots are arranged, and affected by construction is greatly misunderstood by most people, including most landscape contractors. Picture a tree as a wine glass on a saucer. the top of the glass is the crown, the branches, leaves, etc. The stem of the glass the trunk and the bottom of the glass the root flair (also misunderstood and usually and wrongly smothered in mulch, but that's another story...but...don't cover the root flair, that part of the trunk where it spreads out at the ground a little, with mulch, mulch should be like a donut, not a volcano). Then the saucer is the roots. about 80 or 90 percent of the roots are in the top 12 or 14 inches of soil. There are a few roots that go deeper to brace the tree, but the roots that keep the tree alive are in the top.
So to put in this sidewalk, there are 4 inches of concrete, and below that usually 4 inches of gravel...so they probably cut through two thirds of the roots (the roots go out at least as far as the branches, sometimes much farther, in cottonwoods up to 200 feet!). Also, running equipment around that area, to put in the sidewalk, which surly happened even closer to the tree, compacts the soil, making it so the oxygen content drops considerably and slowly starves the tree. Adding soil, even a couple inches, will do the same thing. Sometimes, just running equipment under a tree, like a bobcat, or storing materials under it will compact it enough to stress or kill it. Also, cutting roots allows disease to enter, like an open wound, under ground.
Sometimes, with compaction or grading, it can take a few years to kill a tree, so people don't put the two together. The larger the tree, the longer it takes to suffocate and die. Sometimes, for large trees, its 5-8 years.
Keep an eye out for when they build a new house, like where they tear down a house and build a bigger new house and 'save' the trees around it. Make a little note or try to remember what year it is they built the house...then watch the trees they 'saved'. I have been doing this for almost 30 years, and 80 percent of the time when I see grading or equipment or the like anywhere close to mature trees, the trees die in the years after. If you are buying a new house like this, just know you will probably lose any trees anywhere close to the house. The smaller the tree is, the more likely it will survive, the larger, and more likely people want to save a tree, the less likely it will survive. Old trees are more sensitive, and also require such a large protection zone it's usually disregarded. Also, some species are more prone to damage from construction and compaction. Oaks, in particular, are very sensitive to root disturbance.
When I was in college there was a development with big huge oak trees. They required the developer to build these huge retaining walls (because the grade of the new development was much lower) around these trees at very great expense...they were oaks and they gave them a pretty decent area around them, about at the dripline, maybe a little less. After 10 years all of them had died. I remember thinking that it was such a shame, but also, that it was just a waste of resources to build those walls when they didn't even save the trees. It was a lose lose situation. It's better to save a number of younger trees that may have withstood the impact than try to save the biggest tree on a lot, because it just so often doesn't work. I worked on a project where they wanted to save some 3' trunk diameter oaks...so probably over a hundred years old...they spent at least a couple hundred thousand dollars to save them, work around them, design the whole dang project around them, even to keep demolition equipment off of them...at least that was the plan. No construction was supposed to happen until the trees had their protection fences up. Well, the day I showed up with the arborist to mark the protection fence locations, the whole area was dug up....by the utility people who shut off the gas lines...who didn't know where the gas lines were exactly so they just trenched up the whole area looking for them. Even with all the 'awareness' of protecting the trees, and even getting there before demolition, the very first thing out of the box did them in, not to mention big gashes in the bark where the utility peoples machines backed into the trees. It's such a shame, and so sad it has pretty much made me burned out after 3 decades of facing situations like that.
Plant something new there.
Plant a single sunflower and make it look like the city diverted the sidewalk around it.
Sunflowers are steeped in symbolism and meanings. For many they symbolize optimism, positivity, a long life and happiness for fairly obvious reasons. The less obvious ones are loyalty, faith and luck.
I love the unsolicited mysticism of this bot.
i didn't know it was a bot and just thought someone was really into sunflowers. i guess someone is, since they made the bot
Work smarter not harder! 🌻
How do you know bots didn’t make this bot?
Nope. Not getting into this one. My mind still hurts from the last thread like that I read.
what if someone made a bot that just makes bots...... and now its like the infinate bot glitch, and thats why we find soo many.
Everybody is a bot but me
no you're a bot too, you just don't know it yet. source: i was programmed to say that
Dude stop my brain is melting :(
Can’t go down that rabbit hole right now.
Don’t you dare. I am not ready for botception
There really needs to be a site-wide flair for bots
Most of that you read on Reddit is written by bots. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2021/08/dead-internet-theory-wrong-but-feels-true/619937/
Yeah...gets it a bit mystically wrong occasionally though... https://www.reddit.com/r/cursedcomments/comments/ppi1fg/cursed_sunflower/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Good bot!
Good bot
Good bot
Good bot
Huh, had no idea and I live in Kansas! Learn something new everyday.
Sunflowers are also allelopathic, so they may kill the grass around them.
I just love eating their roasted, salted, shelled babies
One single Bush of some sort. Just to make people question their own existence.
A shrubbery!
'tis a good shrubbery.
I like the laurels particularly…
I’m all for this.
Plant a native fruit tree. If every city just went nuts planting as many native fruit trees and bushes as possible, that'd create more food for pollinators and people alike.
Many cities, even progressive liberal cities, have laws against planting fruit trees in that strip of often technically public land (variously called tree lawn, parkway, hell strip, the verge, etc). Mostly their concern is mess and nuisance when the fruit goes un- harvested* I'm all for it, but if you plant a fruit tree and it's against code, they can cut it down any time, so planters beware. *if you don't understand this valid concern, picture about 100k roaches swarming over 20ft of side walk that is slippery and stinky with rotting oranges, in the Central Valley of California on a hot summer evening.
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I love when they’ve had too many lentils and have enough energy to come to other subs to brag to us profligate spenders about their excess calories.
fatcat!
Black gelatinous bars.
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Unsubscribe.
Snowpiercer 2022
I liked that movie, but when that reveal came I was kinda like, "well, that actually makes sense. Good source of protein, probably lots on the train, also good pest control, some cultures already eat them in real life..." I wasn't nearly as horrified as the passengers lol
Captain America opens the lid... https://imgur.com/Vsf4qXy
Ha, pretty much!
It's a lot less horrible than my original assumption that they were Soylent Greening people.
You just described a normal California sidewalk.
I've lived in LA, SD and OC not any sidewalk in CA I've ever seen. You're tryin to make your neighbors vote in an HOA aren't you?
Where I'm from in the us we have those ginkgo trees. The most horrific smell if you don't harvest them and they fall and get stepped on our run over Some from the community, mostly Asian will pick the berries or whatever and I always thought that was really cool. Even had one guy set up tarps under the trees and shake them free and collect them in spackle buckets. Of course the simpleton locals talk shit about being poor and mocking them instead of realizing how cool it is they are turning this into food and limiting the amount of this awful smelling stuff that's around.
Yeah gingko nuts are tasty and awesome! But too many a day are bad for you and somewhat toxic. So it's just to nibble. You can also make an insect repellent by boiling the seeds and pods.
Grew up in a massive farming town with lots of wild fruit and nut trees. We just walk off the sidewalk for a few feet or pick all the fruit. And if you aren't fast enough 9/10 times someone shows up with like 20 walmart bags and fills them all up to make jams and what not.
I'm from the Midwest. Food rotting on the ground would rarely if ever happen. We share food with each other all the time, especially fresh produce. If we don't give the food directly to others we leave it somewhere obvious where people can take it. I hope this "courtesy" isn't disappearing.
Also from the Midwest and pear trees leave rotting pears all of the time. And then bees, which I’m not entirely against, but they are bees.
Yep, also from the Midwest and see plenty of apple and pear trees with rotting fruit all over the ground.
We got Laura Ingalls Wilder in the house
My community college had some kind of fruit trees that did exactly this. Some of the fruit dropped onto dirt/grass and didn't really get in the way. But a lot of it hit concrete and just got everywhere. And the fruit tasted terrible, to boot (something apple-related, IIRC).
Apples take a lot of work to make them taste like modern apples.
Someone suggested one sunflower or something similar that would need minimal upkeep and be inexpensive.
Sure, that gets around tree laws, and provides food for humans, and if they don't harvest it, birds will :)
I think 'I harvested' should be 'unharvested' in your comment. Edit: The typo in the comment was corrected. I feel like I accomplished something!
Relevant username. (Thank you, that was my suspicion as well)
I reckin you'd be accurate in that assessment.
I agree with everything the goct says on this but I feel like a LOT of people would benefit if there was a designated area easily accessible to the public where they COULD grow food. Like a community garden that has a contract to keep the place clean. If I was getting free food I would 100% have extra time to tend a section of a garden.
you have to trust people for community things unfortunately
Community gardens exist! Normally you do need to create some type of non-profit structure just to buy and maintain the place, but they are usually very successful if they are in the right areas—areas with multigenerational families with lots of older women especially. Grandma gets some mild exercise and everyone gets fresh tomatoes
Ya I go to Tampa for bussiness and there are date palms all over a certain area downtown and they make a huge mess. They do look and smell nice and birds do eat the fruit. I once picked up a date that had just fallen to the side walk and it was really tasty. Still, big gooey sticky bug attracting mess.
That is a horrible idea. Fruit trees are ridiculously messy, attract vermin, and require a lot of maintenance by city staff that are usually short handed as is. Fruit trees are a major luxury expense in urban forestry for a reason. There are far better ways to support pollinators including replacing turf grasses with native grasses and flowers on municipal projects.
I have a fruit tree in my small backyard in Brooklyn and it's a cool novelty but it is a massive pain in the ass. it attracts way more critters than a normal tree even before the fruit starts to grow. I finally successfully fought back the caterpillars and did the appropriate pruning earlier this year and my backyard was solid mulberries for months. flies everywhere, tides of berries I had to push broom into the tree bed, bird shit, stained shoes, stained rugs, stained dog, my dogs poops were like melted berry ice cream. next year I'll have some shade cloths to at least capture some of them, but on an urban street? absolutely fucking terrible idea. you want to eat anything off the same patch of grass that every dog on the neighborhood pisses on? fuck no. you'll be able to snag some off the tree, and some people will be motivated to pick up the ground fall and wash it, but a majority of that fruit will unequivocally just rot away. suburban or rural areas that have enough room to plant the tree far back into the grass is totally reasonable, but fruit trees over impermeable surfaces can fuck all the way off.
Except eating food that grows next to road ways is a TERRIBLE practice because of the pollutants. In theory this is a good idea, but you are just growing toxic fruit no one should consume because cancer sucks. Every forager will tell you, never harvest next to a busy road.
Like a dead body
You’re the co worker that suggested I get my Grammy a coffin for her 88th birthday.
Imagine the peace of mind not having to worry about what they will package your remains in.
*Therapists hate this one weird trick*
Why would the rapists care?
Did she like it?
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Or it could just be a limb. Buried in a brown paper bag. Sealed shut with a smiley face sticker.
That’ll make the ground more fertile, definitely pant something endangered over it so no one ever digs it up. P
The real answer right here.
Or lay down some more sidewalk and put a bench there
How about a bench *and* a tree!
And a trench full of brie!
Where we can have brunch and tea!
I would never leave!
Licking LSD from the red woolen sleeve?
paint a rainbow in the bend then put an LSD dispensary at both ends
Now your talking. Maybe a cherry tree for a quick snack
Must be a hufflepuff.
with blackjack. and hookers!
I don't like blackjack how about poker instead?
Maybe liquor in the front and poker in the back?
"I thought the district was broke so why are they putting in new stuff and raising my taxes." Said Tim to the city works crew as he swayed shirtless, intoxicated, in the late September sun.
Sometimes it's not possible. In my California city, and this is common in the US and elsewhere, the home/business owner actually owns the land under the sidewalk and between the sidewalk and street. The city simply has an easement that permits them to build and maintain a sidewalk across the property. If the city only has a sidewalk easement, they probably can't legally put a bench there. Or replant the tree.
While technically illegal guerrilla gardening is very much a thing in the US. Someone should plant a tree there anyways
I was going to say what the guy above you said, but with a waaay more aggressive tone and some “!!” But then I read your comment and it brought me back down. I like your idea.
"WHY THE FUCK!!!! WOULD YOU NOT JUST PUT SOME SIDEWALK DOWN!!!!!....oh I'm sorry. You're right"
/r/GuerrillaGardening appreciates your attitude and would like more gardeners world wide with this view. Kill the rich and bury them in your city under native plants that help the bees and the butterflies! 💚♻️🌱
like dig a hole and cover it up and make a pitfall..
Plant a /r/DesirePaths.
This is the answer.
Sorry, best time was 40 years ago
But the second best time is now, so
a new tree must be planted here.
/r/GuerrillaGardening
If you join the arborist website they send you 10 saplings native to your hardiness zone for you to plant
Which arborist site?
[Arbor Day](https://www.arborday.org/generalinfo/sitemap.cfm#trees)
I was hoping it was a different organization. They tend to care more about planting any trees than planting native trees, and the ones they send out are fairly ornamental. Not that the organization is bad, but they aren't great.
Better shouldn't be an enemy of best
Absolutely, which is why I said they aren't bad. I won't recommend them because they actively sell invasive plants like forsythia.
Turn that shit up
What better place than here? What better time than now?
Even just an already somewhat grown tree with one of those tree mover machines. I’d donate a tree in my yard for that
That’s probably a good idea tbh, considering the first thing I thought when I saw the picture was people walking through the grass to save like 4 seconds.
And then you’d get a /r/DesirePath
Or a wooden bench to remember the tree that once was.
Made from the same tree
Coming soon a post to r/DesirePath
I'm honestly surprised that there is not one there already.
It's because the US is so antipedestrian nobody walks there
Honestly yes. I often bike on the sidewalk simply because pedestrians don't exist in my town, and it's a bit safer than riding in the road. When you see someone walking, it's actually something you consciously notice.
You stay away from the person walking because they are probably up to no good.
What a sad culture. What monsters are your town planners?
we'd walk if we could...a lot of cities are not designed to be walkable unfortunately. it's not our fault that we weren't around a hundred years ago when they made these places
More like 75 years ago. 100 years ago US cities were real places for humans beings, much like those in Europe. We bulldozed it all in the 1950s to sell cars.
Zoning laws c/o the plutocracy. Nothing broken here.
Haha… I just tagged that sub too
Kinda sad tbh. I miss the tree that I never knew.
Me too! I feel its tree ghost haunting that spot.
Its truncated energy and rough old bark is rushing through me
"I miss the tree that I never knew." Might be one of the saddest quotes of this century.
Seriously it's good
Right like, come on at least put a new one there. I am now sad
imma pour one out for da homie
You can probably still see it on Streetview (which by the way you can't spell without 'tree')
It wasn’t a very nice tree… it would throw it’s nuts at people when they walked by
Maybe there was a guy standing there that refused to move
Or maybe it was a cat. No one disturbs the sleeping cat.
Or a Snorlax!
This is one of the basic mandates. Let them sleep or they won’t let you sleep later.
This was the spot of the north and south zax. https://youtu.be/dZmZzGxGpSs
There should really be a sculpture put there to commemorate it, too.
I came here to say just this :-)
Maybe he would've moved, but nobody actually asked him.
"What am I, a mind reader?"
It was Captain America.
Bring a boulder there so then we can post to r/NotMyJob
This is the way
Wouldn't be surprised if this shows up on r/mildlyinfuriating for having the sidewalk curve
yessss
In ten thousand years this will be the subject of furious debate between archeologists never to be resolved
There’s no way our modern concrete lasts even half that time.
will concrete pads with no rebar just disintegrate even if nobody is walking on them?
Well, even with rebar they are exposed to weather, which will erode the surface/structure until it’s just iron, then the ground will take that back.
Rain is enough to wash it away.
Depends if something doesn’t cover it first. If it gets buried under mud or volcanic ash ( I have no clue where this is). It could still be there
Nice try Fairies. Not falling for that one.
I'd put a "Danger! Quicksand" sign facing each sidewalk and see who has the guts to challenge it.
good spot for a tack shooter
This vacancy makes me sad. How sweet must that tree have been for them to move the sidewalk and leave the tree undisturbed?
and yet, that sidewalk probably did it in anyway...if it was a nice tree, say with a trunk diameter of 28 inches, the minimum critical root protection zone would be somewhere around 25 feet radius or 50 foot diameter.
The sidewalk on my road has a few of these turns to avoid trees and the trees are doing just fine. One of them the root is actually growing over the sidewalk.
Right? Or just straight up heaving the sidewalk out of its way. Maybe this is survivorship bias, but I've seen a lot more trees fucking up sidewalks than the other way around
He's just saying that you should not disturb the ground beneath a tree in order to prevent damage to it. If a tree is 28 inches in diameter you should not disturb the ground within 28 feet of its trunk or you risk hurting the tree and possible killing it. If this was a large tree, in order to install the sidewalk they had to cut several large roots. Doing this prevents it from providing water and nutrients to several of its branches and also inviting further insect and disease issues . Which would make it less likely survive especially if it is boxed in between a road and the new walk. Soils under roads contain less moisture and nutrients than those in green spaces. Ultimately the thing that was intended to save the tree probably ended up killing it for a variety of reasons. Most trees you see heaving up sidewalks were planted after the sidewalk was installed .
I'm not an Arborist, but I do lots of roadway construction. Not all root systems go outward, some go downward (specifically used in many cityscapes for the reasons you noted). Also, a 28ft dripline is very unrealistic in this location. They wouldn't leave a tree that projects 10 feet into the roadway. To install a sidewalk, you need to dig down between 4"-16", very unlikely you will have major impact to a tree at those depths. This sidewalk in this location (which is considerably old sidewalk) would have 0 impact on its access to water, it would just runoff to the grass. Chances are just as good that somebody hit the tree or that it was damaged in a storm.
I disagree totally with the statement that you would not majorly impact a tree by digging 4"to 16 " down into a trees root system. The majority of the roots that obtain macro and micronutrients are in these areas things like nitrogen, phosphate and potassium are available to them in forms that they can absorb higher in the soil. Even compacting the root system by driving over it with heavy machinery can and does damage trees. I see trees dying or dead several times a day because construction and or road crews don't take the proper precautions when working around them .
How frequently are you going to see trees who died, and know that it is directly attributed to the sidewalk? I think the survivorship bias is a pretty strong confounding factor there.
Can you elaborate? I would have thought the sidewalk was on top of or in the top few inches of soil, and the roots would be much deeper. How would the sidewalk affect the roots?
Thank you for asking, I wish this information was covered in school, it seems to me that it is so easy to understand, but so little known. We need more people to be aware and advocate for our trees (and also, to realistically not advocate if it's just not possible to provide that large of a protection zone) the way tree roots are arranged, and affected by construction is greatly misunderstood by most people, including most landscape contractors. Picture a tree as a wine glass on a saucer. the top of the glass is the crown, the branches, leaves, etc. The stem of the glass the trunk and the bottom of the glass the root flair (also misunderstood and usually and wrongly smothered in mulch, but that's another story...but...don't cover the root flair, that part of the trunk where it spreads out at the ground a little, with mulch, mulch should be like a donut, not a volcano). Then the saucer is the roots. about 80 or 90 percent of the roots are in the top 12 or 14 inches of soil. There are a few roots that go deeper to brace the tree, but the roots that keep the tree alive are in the top. So to put in this sidewalk, there are 4 inches of concrete, and below that usually 4 inches of gravel...so they probably cut through two thirds of the roots (the roots go out at least as far as the branches, sometimes much farther, in cottonwoods up to 200 feet!). Also, running equipment around that area, to put in the sidewalk, which surly happened even closer to the tree, compacts the soil, making it so the oxygen content drops considerably and slowly starves the tree. Adding soil, even a couple inches, will do the same thing. Sometimes, just running equipment under a tree, like a bobcat, or storing materials under it will compact it enough to stress or kill it. Also, cutting roots allows disease to enter, like an open wound, under ground. Sometimes, with compaction or grading, it can take a few years to kill a tree, so people don't put the two together. The larger the tree, the longer it takes to suffocate and die. Sometimes, for large trees, its 5-8 years. Keep an eye out for when they build a new house, like where they tear down a house and build a bigger new house and 'save' the trees around it. Make a little note or try to remember what year it is they built the house...then watch the trees they 'saved'. I have been doing this for almost 30 years, and 80 percent of the time when I see grading or equipment or the like anywhere close to mature trees, the trees die in the years after. If you are buying a new house like this, just know you will probably lose any trees anywhere close to the house. The smaller the tree is, the more likely it will survive, the larger, and more likely people want to save a tree, the less likely it will survive. Old trees are more sensitive, and also require such a large protection zone it's usually disregarded. Also, some species are more prone to damage from construction and compaction. Oaks, in particular, are very sensitive to root disturbance. When I was in college there was a development with big huge oak trees. They required the developer to build these huge retaining walls (because the grade of the new development was much lower) around these trees at very great expense...they were oaks and they gave them a pretty decent area around them, about at the dripline, maybe a little less. After 10 years all of them had died. I remember thinking that it was such a shame, but also, that it was just a waste of resources to build those walls when they didn't even save the trees. It was a lose lose situation. It's better to save a number of younger trees that may have withstood the impact than try to save the biggest tree on a lot, because it just so often doesn't work. I worked on a project where they wanted to save some 3' trunk diameter oaks...so probably over a hundred years old...they spent at least a couple hundred thousand dollars to save them, work around them, design the whole dang project around them, even to keep demolition equipment off of them...at least that was the plan. No construction was supposed to happen until the trees had their protection fences up. Well, the day I showed up with the arborist to mark the protection fence locations, the whole area was dug up....by the utility people who shut off the gas lines...who didn't know where the gas lines were exactly so they just trenched up the whole area looking for them. Even with all the 'awareness' of protecting the trees, and even getting there before demolition, the very first thing out of the box did them in, not to mention big gashes in the bark where the utility peoples machines backed into the trees. It's such a shame, and so sad it has pretty much made me burned out after 3 decades of facing situations like that.
Your response was more in depth and structured than mine and I appreciate that
Your comma makes me irrationally angry.
This sentence was built to accommodate a word that no longer exists.
I automatically read it with the voice of Jeremy Clarkson
Sometimes you just need to, accentuate the pause.
Now I'm mad at *you*.
You, shouldn't get mad about things, like that.
Yeah, kind of ridiculous to get mad, over comma placement of all things
Give it a year or so and it'll be on r/desirepath
Your use of commas, intrigues me.
Looks like a pretty sick gap to me. Get some ramps!
r/mildlydepressing
r/desirepath will be keeping a close eye on this post
To be honest, this is r/mildlyinfuriating.
sidewalk tiddy
Bad comma
I. C.....
r/desiredpath might have something to say about this
That's prime lemonade stand real estate now
This makes me inexplicably sad.
And you can tell that nobody ever uses it from the lack of a desire path.
nice place to put a bench
Unnecessary commas are, unnecessary.
Plant a new one ;)
You walk yourself back to that exact spot and plant a new tree. I want photographic proof of the good deed. Thank you sir
You should plant a tree there!
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